The Ramsey Show - App - I’m Graduating With $482K in Debt

Episode Date: April 8, 2022

George Kamel & Rachel Cruze discuss: How to tackle $482k in debt right after you graduate, How to know when you have too much house, Refinancing your student loan, Should you rent or buy? Engaging husbands in Financial Peace University, How to respectfully disagree with parents. Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6

🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where America hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money. I'm George Campbell, Ramsey personality, joined today by Rachel Cruz, best-selling author and host of The Rachel Cruz Show. And we're here for you this hour answering your money questions, your life questions. 888-825-5225 is the number to call. If you call and you're nice, Kelly will patch you through, and we can try to help you take the right next step for your money. Is she the judge, Kelly?

She's the judge. She's the holder. She holds the keys. Kelly's the filter. She's the DJ. Do I like you? Do I not? Kelly's confused. I don't know the DJ. Do I like you? Do I not? Kelly's confused.

I don't know, Kelly. What do you think? Yay or nay? Well, Rusty is kicking us off. He's in Mansfield, Ohio. Rusty, welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hi. Thanks for having me.

Thanks for taking my call. Absolutely. And so I'm getting ready to graduate college here in May, and I'll be a pharmacist once I pass my boards. I'm 36. My wife's 32. I have a whole bunch of student loan debt, about $342,000 in student loan debt. Whoa. I have about $9,000 in credit cards.

We have about $34,000 tied up in cars. And then I have a personal loan from a family member, which kind of includes a house. They put down their house as collateral with a balloon loan. So we've just been paying the interest to kind of live here. Oh, geez. How much is that? The house is only $51,000, but in total with other money I owe her, it's about $97,000, $98,000. So what's the total debt that you owe? $482,000. Rusty, how are you feeling?

Are you okay? Yeah, I'm all right. I'm more worried than you are. I listened to your show about a year ago, and, you know, I felt like I needed to pursue the pretty big shovel because I was almost done with school. So I have a job lined up. I'll start. How much are you going to be making?

I'll be making $108,000. And I have a job that will be seven days on and seven days off, so I plan on picking up another job. Good, good. Awesome. Yep. Is that your household income, or is there more money? My wife brings home about $450 a week.

What is she doing? Well, what does that pan out to? What do you think she'll make this year? She just started this job a few months ago, so I'm going to say maybe around 30 to 35, somewhere in that range. What is she doing? She's a customer service rep for a company. Is that full-time? Yes. Okay. Do you guys have kids? We do not. That's something else I kind of wanted to throw in there.

So we have issues, so we'll probably have to do like an IVF if we want to have kids. Okay. So I wasn't sure if, you know, where that would fit in either because we're getting kind of older and it's coming towards that time or not at all. Totally. Wow. So how can we help today? I just kind of need a plan of, I guess, where to start. So the house doesn't have to be refinanced for another three or four years

before they call for that balloon loan. So I wasn't sure if I should pay on other stuff for three years or so. Can you get out of this house situation? Yeah. Is it the house that you're living in that has the mortgage and the loan and everything, or is it the family members? My mother put her house as collateral for this house because this house is technically worth a little bit more. So it's her house that is on the line, I guess. And how much do you have left?

How much is left on the house? Oh, we've just been paying the interest. So the whole amount. Rusty, you're going to have to get... How much will it sell for? I honestly don't know. Because here's the deal, Rusty. Y'all are...

Say again? We got it in 2017. So it's been a little while. I'm sure it's probably, in this market, went up a little bit. Yeah, probably has. So here's the thing, Rusty. You're in kind of an extreme situation with everything going on and the amount of debt, which means in order to make movement, you're going to have to make some extreme moves. And we don't always recommend selling a home and that kind of thing

to get out of debt, because some people it's like hey you got twelve thousand dollars of credit card debt and we're like awesome cut everything and pay it off as fast as possible but you i mean it's a substantial amount almost half a million dollars and so if you want to start making some big moves that's where i'm going to start looking first and foremost it's like where are the places that we can make some drastic moves? Um, and I know you guys want a family in the future and that's amazing. And we can definitely talk about that later on in this call,

but like, you don't have kids right now. Nothing's tying you down to this house. Like I would start eliminating stuff in your cars. You got $34,000 a car debt. How is that between both cars or is that? Yes. Yeah.

That's between both, between both cars. What are? Yes. Yeah, that's between both. Between both cars. What are the cars worth? So we owe about a little over $10,000 on one. It's probably worth about $12,000 or $13,000. And then we owe about $23,700 on the other one, and it's about worth $25,000 or $26,000. Okay. Well, man, if I'm in your shoes, I'm feeling a sense of urgency, and I'm going, we are selling these cars tomorrow, and we're going to drive beater cars. We are selling this house next month, and we are going to live somewhere that we can afford.

And a one-bedroom, tiny apartment. And we're going to clear this up. I mean, I'm talking, yes, making these extreme— This is an emergency situation. situation and the nine thousand dollar credit card debt all of it so like rusty yes what george is saying and i totally agree with like there needs to be this sense of okay in order to make a dent in half a million dollars of debt we got to just make some moves and so that's right selling the car selling the house and then mapping out a game plan so you're going to make 108k um a year but then that's every other week so finding a job asAP of what you can do every other week. Your wife's making $35,000 in this market.

Honestly, I think she can make more. I would be looking for a different job. Like I would be upping. I would be making huge lifestyle changes because when you do that, what's going to end up happening is you're going to have all this other margin to throw at the debt.

You guys are going to be living on nothing. Everything's going to be going towards that because if you're not making these types of decisions, you're going to be in this for a really long time. And your pattern so far, Rusty, not to shame you, but your pattern so far of the decisions you guys have made with the credit card debt, the car loans, your mom taking out collateral on her house with a balloon mortgage,

your whole mindset has to shift. You have to have this realization, what we've done has not worked so we're actually gonna have to do the opposite of everything i thought i was gonna do with money and so it you and your wife together like making this because what i would do too is and sorry george you can jump in but like it's having your why what's your why and for you guys to start a family and yes and i and we've had close dear friends go through this process multiple friends go through the ivf process and it's long it's exhausting it's strenuous i mean there's all

that emotion and then obviously the prayer of being able to have a family on the other side of that i want that to be your why like like sacrificing so majorly to say over here is what we want our lives to be in order to do that that so well, as stress-free as possible, with as much money in the bank, these are the decisions we have to make. Yeah. And make sure you're cash-flowing that IVF treatment. Don't go into debt for it, which means we got to clean this thing up and use that why. Listen, your life at this rate is going to suck for 10 to 20 years.

I don't want that for you. I want it to suck for two years because you got gazelle intense, you sacrificed, you did everything you could for your family, for that future kid. That's what I want for you, Rusty. I'm going to gift you one year of Ramsey Plus. I want you and your wife to go through all the Financial Peace University videos, get a game plan, get on the every dollar budget, and start attacking this thing with a vengeance because your life depends on it. This is The Ramsey Show. In an uncertain world, being a good steward of your money is more important than ever.

While some circumstances can't be controlled, there are items within your budget you can take charge of, such as your health care costs. For nearly 40 years, Christian Health Care Ministries, or CHM, has provided a budget-friendly means of sharing for medical bills when our members need it. Learn more by visiting chministries.org slash budget. That's chministries.org slash budget. Christian Healthcare Ministries is a Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel, Ramsey personality, joined this hour by Rachel Cruz. For the teachers out there, this one is for you. You guys pour your heart and soul into helping students every single day, and you have a bigger impact on these kids' lives than you even realize.

And you deserve to be recognized. And that's why we're celebrating you during Financial Literacy Month. We're pumped to announce our Teacher Appreciation Giveaway, sponsored by Borrowed Future, our hit documentary about the dark side of the student loan industry. So here's the deal. Two lucky teachers will each win $5,000 cash to use however they'd like. Plus, three more teachers will each win $1,000 cash, and there's more. Don't miss out, teachers. Go to RamseySolutions.com slash teacher for your chance to win. And if you're not a teacher, please, please share this with all of the teachers that you know and love in your life. That's RamseySolutions.com slash teacher.

Did you have great teachers, George? Oh, I can remember three or four off the top of my head that were life-changing. In my own life, I just love teachers. And then now that our kids are in school amelia's in first grade i'm like her kindergarten teacher i love her first grade teacher i love like it's it's such a gift to have great teachers out there so thank you teachers we want to we really do want to celebrate you because the work you do it's it's incredible yeah they're spending so much time with this next generation equipping them especially the ones teaching our personal finance curriculum out there. Oh, yes.

I get messages every day from teachers and students who are just like, hey, we watch the curriculum. We love it. And it just, I'm like, there's hope. Do you get snarky

little high school students? Oh, yeah. Because I'll get them sometimes. The trolls are out there too. The high school students. Yeah. We hate watching this. I got one the other day.

I'm like, you just soak it in. They said, hey, my class, my class thinks you're really short. I was like, good. Good. That's what you got. Out of all of the life-changing wisdom I was giving you, you were just thinking, that guy

looks pretty short. I've been asked to prom multiple times. Oh, wow. Would you just say yes to any? No. I mean, no. I guess I could. Okay.

Hey, folks out there, don't ask Rachel Cruz to prom. She's not going. Okay? Winston will not allow that. No, he would. He would say, Rachel, that's so sweet. It's for the kids, Rachel. For the kids. No, it's funny. No one's asking me to prom. She's not going. Okay? Winston will not allow that. No, he would. He would say, Rachel, that's so sweet. It's for the kids, Rachel. For the kids.

No, it's funny. No one's asking me to prom. All you high school students, you listening, you're all smart ones. I didn't even go to my own prom. I'm not going to your kid's prom. You didn't do prom. I had no interest in prom. And you're the boy.

You're the one that could have asked. Thank you. I am the boy. Like the girls. Oh, yes. The girls, we're at the mercy of if you're asked. I was too cool, Rachel. I was like skateboard, punk guy, like dances are lame, sports is lame, skateboarding is

life. So that's how I was, but that's for another day. Do you regret it? No regrets. Okay, that's fair. No, proms still make me uncomfortable and sweaty. Actually, it kind of makes me uncomfortable. Yeah, I don't want to think about that.

Just the amount of Axe body spray and BO in those rooms. Yikes. All right. Moving on. Bill is in Atlanta and Bill needs some help. Bill, we are happy to help you today. What's going on? Hey, y'all. I appreciate you taking my call today. I'm a big fan of you guys. Absolutely. What's going on? I just had a question. My wife and I bought too much house. Our take-home pay per month, depending on whether we hit our bonuses or not, is $9,900 to $10,400 a month. Okay. Hey, speak directly into your phone for you. It sounds like you're in a wind tunnel.

Oh, no. Bill? Still with us, Bill? Did we lose you on the wind? Can you hear me? Okay. That's all right. Okay.

So you got $9,900 to $10,400 coming in take-home pay. How much is this mortgage? All right. Yeah. We're losing you, Bill. Shoot, Bill. Wish we could help. Oh, there we go.

He's back. Hi. Are you there? There we go. There you are, Bill. We hear you. Okay. What's the mortgage payment my

mortgage payment's 2100 a month it's under contract to move in in two months and then the property taxes are a thousand so if you count that i think it comes out to about 35 percent of my take-home pay on a 15-year fixed okay you're on the 15-year fixed? Yeah, and the house is worth, we have 130 cash, and we were going to put, say, 20 for the emergency fund and then do 10 for the closing cost. So we were going to put the remainder on the home. Okay, so you haven't closed on the house yet? No, it's just under contract.

Do you see you or your wife having any raises or bonuses going up? Like, do you see your income overall going up anytime soon? I do. It's been going up about 10% a year the last three years. Okay, okay. I'm not sensing a fire here. I don't think this is a, like, hey, back out of this thing right now, man. But I love that you're doing the math, going, hey, are we going to have a margin in our life to do other things,

to pay it off early, to retire with dignity? So you're asking the right questions. But 30% is not outrageous on a 15-year. Yeah. I mean, yeah, because it'll get close to that. So that 25-30% range is kind of where we aim for. And I think with you guys, the way you're making it sound with your bonuses and everything um that it's gonna it's gonna stay around that or even go lower so i think i think you're okay bill i really do i mean if if we were talking 40 45 50 it's a different story um but where you guys are at and you said 35 yeah i mean i think it's i i i'm not we recommend 25 to%, but since your income is going up pretty drastically, that 10% raise with both of you guys,

I think that your income is going to be able to offset that in the near future. Yeah, you've got a great income going for you. Now, if the numbers were very different, even if the same percentage, but you make a quarter of that or half of that, I start to get worried because there's really little margin there. But you still have, you know, seven grand sitting out there to accomplish your goals, to invest, to save for college, all those things. So appreciate the question. Get that income up as soon as possible and you'll be in okay shape. All right, we're moving on to Jordan, who's in DC. Jordan, welcome to the show. Hi, Jordan, Rachel. Thanks so much

for taking my call. Sure. So my question, so I'm a fourth year medical student graduating in May and my wife and I are moving out to San Francisco in July. And so I'm graduating medical school with one hundred eighty eight thousand dollars of student debt. But we've managed to share a car, no car payment. We paid off our credit cards, all of my wife's student loans. But we're gazelle intense, living our life in beans, household income of a little more than sixty thousand dollars. And we're probably going to increase to a little over $100,000 in July. But looking at the prices, we've had to pause our baby steps to just save up for moving expenses and for a second car. And the area I've heard from people is really hard to pay off loans for med school or for residence. So my question for you is, would you recommend in a situation, I guess, when moving to

arguably one of the most expensive cities in the country, whether or not I should refinance my student loans to get a lower interest rate to kind of make some more traction, or should I just focus on just trying to keep my head above water in San Francisco and then waiting until my income significantly increases once I'm in attending to then knock out the loans? When will that happen? When will you be? So my residency program is four years. So it will be around 2026. to then knock out the loans. When will that happen? When will you be?

So my residency program is four years. So it'll be around 2026. But, you know, again, we're trying to make as much traction as we can to like knock as much as we can out before that. But again, it's just a really expensive part of the country. So just curious about what your thoughts are about refinancing to make sure that more of whatever we are, we are able to pay. It's actually going straight towards principal just because our,

right now I have student loans, but like through the government and they range anywhere from like five to 7.6% and that, you know, they're insured by the government. So if something were to happen to me, it would be forgiven. I wouldn't be my wife. Whereas if we refinance, it'd be a lower interest rate. But then after you worried about something that did happen to me, would my wife be like stuck with that, um, with that balance as well. And there's about something did happen to you, would my wife be like stuck with that balance as well? And there's no chance for that to be kind of forgiven in any way or relinquished rather. Well, I'll talk you through my parameters of when it makes sense to refinance on your student loans. Number one, it's got to be completely free to make the change.

So no fees. I want you to keep a fixed rate or replace a variable rate. Sounds like they're all fixed rate, right? Okay. And I don't want you to sign up for a longer repayment period because that's how they get you sometimes. They go, hey, you're on a four-year plan. We're going to put you on the 10-year plan. And of course, I want the new interest rate to be lower than the current one. And so the place that we recommend, the folks that we recommend is Splash Financial. You can jump on ramseysolutions.com and click on Trusted Pros. And I would get in touch with them and see what they can offer you

when it comes to refinancing. Like you said, it doesn't sound like you're looking for the shortcut here. You're just looking to make a little bit more traction. And that is the spirit when it comes to refinancing. It's not a shortcut. You're just moving the debt around. But if we can lower the interest rate a little bit, shave off a little bit of money here, and pay off that debt faster, I'm here for it. And the awesome thing is, Jordan, if you guys – because you guys – I mean, you sound incredible. You're like, we have one car. We've paid off our debt. You're willing to sacrifice.

Yes. And so even making this $100K a year, finding what you can to throw at this 188. Because by the time you get out of residency and all that, and you're making significantly more, how amazing would it be just to have all of that money, jumpstart your investing and all of it. I mean, so the sacrifice you can make now, you're going to be able to actually enjoy your income once it starts going up later on down the road.

That's huge. These student loans are a plague on society. We've got to do something about it. And it starts with you getting rid of them, avoiding them. That is how we attack this problem. That's huge. These student loans are a plague on society. We've got to do something about it. And it starts with you getting rid of them, avoiding them. That is how we attack this problem. This is The Ramsey Show. I'm Ramsey personality, Georgeel, joined today by Rachel Cruz. And we are taking your calls about life and money.

The number to call is 888-825-5225. Jason joins us up next. He's in Santa Fe, New Mexico. Jason, welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hey, guys. Thanks for having me. Absolutely. What's going on? Yeah, so my question would be, is now a good time to buy or would I continue to rent?

I currently make $87,000 a year. I'm 21. I have no debt. I have a daughter and a fiance, and we're really excited to take this new step. Wow. What are you doing for work? So I just got my degree in robotics. I work at a laboratory, so I'm going to be a senior mechanical technologist. Good for you, man. Just curious, did you get a four-year degree? What was the education like? No. Actually, I got a two-year in associates in applied science and robotics, and I've just been an engineering intern for a few years at a different laboratory in Los Alamos.

Thank you, Jason. I'm a bachelor's in mechanical engineering now. And making almost $90,000 at 21. My point was to say, good for you, Jason. Weamos. Thank you, Jason. I would like my bachelor's in mechanical engineering. And make in almost 90 grand at 21. My point was to say, good for you, Jason. We're clapping for you, Jason. And America listening, remember, Jason is 21. He makes $87,000, and he got a two-year degree. So shut up. There we go.

He's probably very smart, too, Jason. I probably wouldn't hire me for that job. Robotics, that's amazing. Okay, do you have any debt? Like $3,000, but we have a little over $12,000 saved. So you have $12,000 to your name. What's the $3,000 in debt? So we just had a baby. We just traded in the car and got a new jet as well. So it's a car loan? Yeah, it's a car loan.

Okay. What's holding you back from just paying that thing off today? Yeah, I mean, so I just got the new job offer. I start in the beginning of May. This has all kind of happened quick, so, yeah, we did just get the car. I know the market's really bad to buy. I just am not sure if I want to walk in and buy a house and then just depreciate over the next few years or if we should just continue to rent for a little bit longer. Well, you don't have any money to buy a house and then it just depreciate over the next few years? Or if we should just continue to rent for a little bit longer? Well, you don't have any money to buy a house, it sounds like.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking too. But I guess in the future, would it be better to just do a six to one year lease and just rent and just try to save up as much as we can? I mean, I'm a big fan of renting if it's buying you patients to get into that house the right way. That's what you're saying. Okay, thank you. Yeah, no, that's what I've been trying to tell my mom. Oh, okay, now mom's involved.

She's making financial decisions on your behalf. So the thing is, is everyone's like, you need to buy a house, you need to buy a house, you have a baby, Jason, you have a fiance, you need to buy a house, you got a great job. No, you need to buy a house, buy a house, buy a house. You can't rent with a baby, Rachel. It's illegal in New Mexico. Oh, my gosh. So, no, but the pressure to buy a home, buy a house, buy a house. You can't rent with a baby, Rachel. It's illegal in New Mexico. Oh my gosh. So no, but the pressure to buy a home, it is so great. But listen, the market right now is insane. So if you do not have to buy a home right now and you don't have the cashflow and the means to be smart about it, no, I think renting is 1000% okay. It is not just

throwing your money away. You're buying time to save up. So if I were you paying off this car loan is 3000 and then I would take the rest of your 10 grands or nine grand that you'll have left and have it for an emergency fund. So you guys basically are, you know, and if you need a little bit more to do that three to six months of expenses, then add to that and then start saving for a down payment. So we recommend anywhere from 10 to 20% to put down.

So that can be y'all's next goal is to say, hey, over the next three years, two years, we're going to be saving for a down payment on a home. And then the beautiful thing is when you actually go to purchase it, maybe in two years, the market could have corrected itself a little bit. You're not buying at the top. That would be nice. So Jason, our parameters here, you can jump on to ramseysolutions.com and go to the mortgage calculator under the free tools and start playing around with that and start to see, okay, if I do a 15-year fixed rate mortgage, which is the only type that I'd ever recommend to you, and we want the payment to be no more than a quarter of our take-home pay, then we can go, okay, how much house can we get based on us putting 10% to 20% down?

That helps you kind of get a ballpark for what house you're looking at versus letting realtor.com or Zillow decide, or the bank even worse, decide how much house you should get. Okay, great. Now, yeah, thank you guys for taking the time to answer my question. Absolutely, man. Thanks for the call. The pressure from the mom.

It's a real thing. I knew there was a mom involved. Gosh, moms are great. I love their kids. But, man, they want the best, even if it's not always the best. Even if it means putting their kids in crippling debt to do it. Oh boy. All right, let's move on to Morgan.

She's in Shelbyville, Tennessee. Morgan, welcome to the show. Hi, it's good to talk to y'all. You too. What's going on? I am leading my first FPU class right now. Awesome, thank you. We just finished lesson four.

I'm super pumped about it, but my class is all wives, no husbands attending, participating, anything. So I was wondering if y'all had any advice, like how I can encourage them better and push them to keep going because I'm not married myself. So I can't, I can only imagine how difficult it is to try to do something like this on your own. Yeah. So what were the husbands invited? I have to ask. Yes. I mean, yeah, as far as I know, um, I don't know. Did the husband see it like, Oh, well this is girls night. No, thank you. No, I don't think so. Now, some of them have told me that they have, well, several of them actually have told me they have their finances separate.

So I don't know if that's part, yeah, of course, that's part of the problem. But I know another husband or the wife is just like, hey, leave me out of this. Do whatever you want. Sounds like a gem. Man, well, it's a common thing. I mean, the idea of being on separate pages doing your own thing and husband's feeling like i think i'm good i got this money stuff taken care of yeah i mean it is it's so normal so i appreciate you even asking the question morgan and seeing it

and being like man i wish i wish it could be different um you know i mean if they're just not willing to go you can't make someone do anything. That took me lots of counseling sessions to really understand you can't control people. The best way to support the wives is to encourage them to have the right conversation with the husbands going, Hey, this matters to me. I don't feel financially safe. I want to grow in this area and I want you to come along this journey with me. It's not, Hey, you're going to go to this class because Dave said, and you, you stink with money. It's not, hey, you're going to go to this class because Dave said, and you stink with money. It can't be like that. It has to be a warmer invitation,

but also a very firm saying, this is something that I need you to be on board with because we are not in a great financial position. I want us to be better financially. I want to do this together as a team. That's what marriage is. That's what you signed up for when you decided to say I do.

And so that's the kind of conversation they need to have with their husbands. There's not a lot you can do personally to have that conversation for them. Yeah. I did talk to them about like having a big why and we just finished lesson four. So they talked about the dream meeting, having the dream meeting about what the future looks like. That's got to sting watching that alone while your husband's at home. Well, that's what I just don't want them to feel defeated or like they can't do it, even though I'm sure it's much harder.

But I still want them to feel like they can do it. Yeah, and I think, you know, encouraging them. And it's so interesting that the whole class that like no husband is coming, right? So it really is all these wives. And so I think that's possibly a good thing because you guys can kind of brainstorm, I think, as a group even. And I think for two, I think sometimes the conversation around money with couples and with women, they can almost make it seem like, oh, I really want you to come to this thing. But like, oh, I don't know. And it feels just kind of like surfacy feeling.

But if they really get under and be like, listen, I'm struggling because I'm feeling like if we're going to be separate on this, there's other areas of our marriage. I want our marriage to be the best, richest marriage possible. And being on one team, or I feel lonely doing this by myself, and I want my husband there. Start to put the weight of it, not nagging, but putting the weight of what they're feeling in it to their husbands um i think is a for them to have a real serious conversation about it and you know delon dr john deloney always says it and i think he's right that if it gets to a point that they just will not that's when you bring in a third party yeah and you bring in someone because because again it's a it's a red flag in other areas of marriage when there's not a level of, hey, I want to

come in as one. No, opposites attract. So in any marriage, there's going to be one that's going to be way more excited than the other. And I know for us, what's funny is like my husband is actually the one that's more excited about this stuff than I even am, even though this is my job. But he's like, he has the Excel sheets. He knows all the numbers.

I mean, he's like checking everything. I mean, it is like in his head, and I'm not as great at details. So I'm like, okay, I'm having to go back in and re-look at stuff. So naturally, there's going to be one more excited than the other. And that's not right or wrong. But if they won't even come to the table and have a discussion and talk about it, that's where the red flag comes in. So I think you, Morgan, encouraging them is awesome.

Get the wives to say, hey, we're going to watch this video at home together. First lesson, just to get them on board. That's a them on board and then see if they'll come to a class. But man, men, step up. Dudes, step up. And it might be intimidating. Be like, oh man, I'm going to be going with Sarah and all your friends. So maybe the home thing. That's a great suggestion, George. Just wait in the waters a little bit. I like that. But overall, men need to step up. This is ridiculous. Yes. Thank you so much for leading the class.

We appreciate all of our financial peace coordinators out there leading the charge on the home front. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back, America. This is The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Rachel Cruz this hour, and we are taking your calls, 888-825-5225. Ava joins us up next. She's in Buffalo, New York. Ava, welcome to The Ramsey Show.

Hi, thanks for taking my call. Absolutely. How can we help? So I've been offered an internship over the summer, and I'm conflicted about whether or not I should take it because it's by my college town, and my mom wants me to come back home because I won't have to pay any bills over the summer,

and I also have a job for the summer lined up there, but it's not as related to what I want to go into as this one is. This one's kind of just more suited to my career, and I'm just not sure if I should heed my mom's advice or stay in my college town and take this internship this summer. So what did you study? I'm in biology.

Okay. And what's the internship? So it's like a lab scientist intern. I'd be shadowing some people in a lab learning techniques and learning how to become a better science communicator. And that excites you? Yes. But it's unpaid? It is paid. It pays $18 an hour.

Okay. This is better. So you'll be able to pay your bills if you do this internship? Yes. I found an apartment I'd be able to live in for only three hundred dollars a month which like um with the inflation and everything and especially in this area is a really good deal yeah that's amazing is it in a safe part of town is it legit yes it is yeah it's um it's actually near the off-campus living apartments where I am now. Okay. And the alternative is, what is this job back home that you have for the summer? So it's also in a lab, but I'm doing, I don't know how to put it, I'm doing more menial work, if that makes sense. The job that i would be doing um over the summer here would be

much more i would have to use my brain i would have to think i would have to know more hands on yeah the job back at home is like i'm kind of answering phones more which there's nothing wrong with that but it's like i don't feel like it would directly be benefiting my career. Yeah, does it pay more, Ava? Does it pay more? I'm trying to understand. Yeah. The one at home pays $15 an hour. But there's also another.

So I have a family member who's pretty sick right now living back at home. And that's another major reason I haven't just said yes yet. Like, she's pretty sick, and I haven't been able to see her, and I wouldn't get to see her because she's too sick to come to me to visit. Where's college versus home? How far away? Six hours. Okay. By car.

Could you go visit a few weekends over the summer back home? Possibly. I would definitely want to. I would definitely try to work that out if I could even take, I don't know, a weekend or a longer weekend. Yeah. So Ava, what's the big pull for your, I'm just curious for your mom's perspective, because you guys disagree on this. What's her main motivation for wanting you back home? Is it just to have you again? Is it because of the sick family member? Is it because... Bills.

Yeah. What's her main motivation or reason why? She's saying the rent. She's like, we're not going to be supporting you over um you know over the summer because my parents are helping me pay for college but um i do uh i would be paying my rent by myself which i could do that if i had this job it would only i calculated my expenses and everything i would be able to do that and still make more money yeah i feel like you have that respectful conversation with mom and go, hey, mom, I really appreciate it. Thank you for wanting me to come home and do all of this. But I've done the math here and I can make this work very easily. And this internship is going

to get me closer to what I want to be doing in my career. And here's the deal. I'm going to come visit at least twice this summer to come be with you guys and see the sick relative. And you do that in a respectful way. And then mom doesn't really get a say in your life at this point. I mean, they're paying for college. Right. We need to be respectful of that. Yeah. So I'm just thinking like, Ava, you're not doing anything.

Okay, I'll say this. One way or the other, it's not going to be a life-shattering decision. If you did decide to go and do this, it's not your ideal. It's not really what you want. But if you did, you're going to be fine. You're going to be fine if you take the internship, right? But you're a very smart young woman as you're talking through all your expenses, you've run the calculations, like you've done your work, your due diligence to create a pretty great argument in a sense of like, hey, here's what I want to do. And it makes sense.

You're not off just like hanging out at the pool all summer and expecting them to pay your bills right like there's there's no you really are taking a lot of responsibility so in a in a respectful way i would do what george said and talk to her and um and but you know it's it's hard at your age too because they do have this like there's a little bit of shadow yeah because they're paying your bills and so or not paying your bills in this but the tuition for college but that my other thing is, but I would argue back to her is that, like, you're not doing anything immoral or wrong. And so there shouldn't, I pray that that doesn't become part of the discussion of just, you know, that they feel any, like, ungratefulness from you, you know, because they pay your tuition and all that.

So I think it comes with a lot of humility, a lot of gratitude in it, and that this is what you want to do. So I think it's a good conflict to have as you're starting to kind of start to be out on your own. But if I'm your mom, I'm proud of you. Should I be worried about the family member? Like, should that be part of my decision, would you say? How close are you with them? Is it something that

you would regret ava do you think that you'll look back in five years and say man i wish i spent my summer closer to them i don't know because she's so it's like a mental health disorder but it has a pretty high mortality rate and it just makes me like I think about her all the time because it just literally eats away at people who have it and it's like it's just so bad and like I feel and that's like my main hole because honestly the rent works itself out I could do the rent by myself but I feel like if I leave this person and she were to like not make it, I would be like really, I would feel really bad that I didn't spend the last couple of days with her. Yeah. No, I hear that. Absolutely. So, I mean, yeah, because this adds

definitely, this definitely adds to the decision. I, and just hearing you even now as you're processing and I'm like, oh wow, this is a, it is a heavy thing for you. It doesn't feel This definitely adds to the decision. And just hearing you even now as you're processing it, I'm like, oh, wow, this is a heavy thing for you. It doesn't feel like an obligation, you know, anything like that. And I think you genuinely want to be there for this family member. And so, you know, that could be a thing. How old are you, Ava? I'm 20.

You're 20, yeah. I feel like at this point there's going to be more regret if you go to the college town, do the internship, and don't go home, than if you just went home, do the internship. You can still have the career you want, get the experience you want later on. What does the family member have, can I ask? She's anorexic, and she's getting worse. Oh. So sorry.

By the day, she's getting worse. Oh, I'm sorry, Ava. She wants to eat meat. Man, I'm so sorry. She sorry man i'm so sorry he doesn't let my parents look at what she eats she doesn't it's horrible and it's getting worse every single day and she's direct family yeah oh i'm so sorry. That's heartbreaking. I wonder if that's part of mom's, you know, advice is she wants you to be home and she needs the support on top of wanting to help you with the bills. And she's using me coming home as a reason not to go to treatment. Oh, well, she's using a reason for you not to go home as not to go to treatment. But if you came home, she would go to treatment.

No, she's saying that she doesn't want to go to treatment because she thinks I'm going to come home. So she doesn't want to be in the center over the summer while I'm home. And that's her thing that she's saying. But if I don't, I feel like it'd be even worse if I wasn't there because I feel like she'd make the excuse either way not to go. Yeah, yeah. I think something like this, it's not. And it's not up to you, Ava, okay? I don't want you to have this heroic mindset that you're going to be able to change.

You can be there for support, but it does sound like being close, if that's something that you feel like you'll regret down the road, I'm telling you, for three months, you may want to consider that going home just to be there. But I'm so sorry, Ava. It's a tough situation, Ava. So sorry. That puts this hour of The Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it.

Hey, it's Rachel Cruz, co-host on The Ramsey Show. If you want to do your debt-free scream live on the show, visit ramsaysolutions.com slash debtfreescream. We'd love for you to come to Nashville and tell Dave your story. That's ramsaysolutions.com slash debtfreescream.