The Ramsey Show - App - I’m Half a Million in Debt and Terrified (Hour 3)

Episode Date: October 25, 2022

Dave Ramsey & Kristina Ellis discuss: Digging out of $500k of debt, 529 plans, Borrowing from a 401(k) to pay off credit cards, Trying to cut losses after losing money on investments. Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6 Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

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We're going to go to GT in Roanoke virginia to start this hour hi gt how are you hello i'm i'm all right a little little nervous and a little concerned after checking my credit statement the other day okay what's up well i've got over five hundred thousand dollars in debt and um i'm getting ready to sell a house, but I just don't know what to do with the money, and I'm worried I made a mistake. Okay. $500,000 in debt on what? $30,000 in truck, $35,000 on land at the lake, $135,000 on the house that we're getting ready to sell,

and $350,000 on the house we just bought. Okay. And what's your household income? $160,000 to $180,000 depending on overtime. Okay. All right. Yeah, I would encourage you to separate out the debt when you're kind of looking at it, because that is overwhelming when you're having all of your, the $350,000 is your primary mortgage, right? Yes, it is. Now we're moving into that one within a month. Tell us a little bit about the house you're about to sell with the $135,000 that you mentioned. How much equity is in that house?

We've got it under contract for $260,000. Okay. So what did you, you've already closed on the house that's $350,000, that's your main house, right? And that's your old house, right? The $350,000 is the one that we closed on that we're moving into. The other one is the old house, yes. How much did you put down? We haven't closed the $ $350? Mm-hmm.

None. But you're sort of a... Go ahead. Go ahead. How did you do that? It was a situation where it was about to be foreclosed on, and it was a great deal. It's probably worth $5, $550, and the foreclosing bank wouldn't allow us to make a contingent on selling our own home right and so you just went got a bank loan yes okay is that is the 350 now on a permanent mortgage or is it still a bank loan

permanent okay all right so you're set up then. The other house is sold. When you sell it, you've got the money to pay off the truck and the other $35,000, right? Yes. And you'll be debt-free other than your home? Yes. Okay. Where's the overwhelmed part? Just seeing half a million dollars in debt.

I've never had that much before my life okay so you're doing all this two-step and you just didn't look at how many different squares you were stepping on yeah I guess so yeah and but now once you finish the dance it's not overwhelming anymore really no no I guess not I mean you got three hundred fifty thousand dollar household house payment that's it you've got um another sixty thousand dollars laying in your checking account that we need to set some aside for your rainy day fund your emergency fund let's call that thirty five thousand and that gives you thirty thousand to put on some other stuff um maybe get your

retirement and your kids college started with some of that. And so the end of the story turns out, the wake-up call and the lesson to be learned, it sounds like, is that the way you went at this left you more vulnerable than you like to be. And I would agree with you. Yeah, yeah. Because there was a moment here and we're kind of still sitting in it at this moment until this house closes the first house closes there's a moment here where you're 550 000 in debt and if it went sideways

you'd be messed up yeah like if the market froze up and you couldn't sell that other house, you'd be up a creek right now. Yeah, I would. And so the good news is it sounds like you're going to get out by the hair of your chinny-chin-chin and end up in actually a good place, but the good news is it scared you enough to make you concentrate more next time you were faced with a similar opportunity to hide the pee under a shell. Yeah. Am i missing something no no you're spot on i just like i said you know once the numbers hit me it you know it scared me and i was like what if something goes wrong yep good and remember that feeling yeah and so next time you go i you know because i don't enter i used to do stuff like that all the time. And until I took my dadgum head off and I'm, you know, walking around, you know, like a

Halloween costume or something looking for my head. It was gone. It just knocked it off. And I'm like, geez, man, my whole life got turned upside down here. I just about I lost everything. I just about lost my marriage. I lost about it destroyed my whole freaking world. And so I don't ever I don't even go close to that stuff anymore and so that can be your lesson like

I kind of overstepped here you know I like I was walking along the edge of the cliff and the rocks are falling off and I acted like they weren't and I was singing and whistling a tune and and I made it back light safe but I'm not going to take that path again I don't like being that close to the edge and that's a good lesson so just learn the lessons gt that's all i would tell you yeah and then just use that the lessons you've learned to continue forward being responsible with your finances stay away from the edge of the dead gun cliff right exactly you know it's that's really what it does come down to so very very good question and um so it's a good example and you know his emotion came up and caught him uh but if this had gone sideways and but now that it's turned out it's really going

to leave him in a very good place a very reasonable place he's debt-free everything but his house great income $350,000 mortgage with $180,000 income that's not out of line this is all very doable okay he ends up in a good place but this is an example of when he started this process he doesn't know that's going to turn out and that's what caught him and took his breath away most people don't even bother to have their breath taken away they just go oh that's what i planned and that's what happened here's the debt only works or buying two houses at one time only works, or doing these things only works when it works. And most of the time, life doesn't work exactly the way you had it planned. And so that's when it gets your dadgum head taken off,

and that's where you get to experience the borrower is slave to the lender, and a foolish man devours all he has. And in the house of the wise are stores of choice food and oil and these bible verses that talk about living on less than you make having an emergency fund having a plan and not being in debt and that you know that plan works in good times and in bad times and so uh we had a call in an earlier hour today where I told a guy, do not buy the second house until the first one is sold. Remember that? Mm-hmm.

Same scenario here because you can get caught. Now, good news is GT got out. I'm happy for him. Happy he didn't learn the lesson except put his stomach in his throat without having to learn the lesson. You know, that's good. That's good. I'm happy that there's no harm, no foul.

I don't wish bad things on people. What I try to do is help you avoid setting yourself up where bad things can get you. Don't let them get you. It's Halloween. This is The Ramsey Show. ស្រូវានប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប� We'll be right back. Christine Ellis, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Best-selling author, Ramsey Personality. Last week, we announced our Spring Building Wealth Live Tour, and tickets are really selling fast.

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Tickets start at $39. Our fall events sold out in days. You do not want to wait on this. Go to ramseysolutions.com slash events to get your tickets and particularly you better get them like today if you want VIP or platinum on any of these. They go first and they go early and they go really, really fast. Our question of the day is from blinds.com. They have a 100% satisfaction guarantee that means even if you mismeasure or you pick the wrong color, they'll remake your window blinds for free. Free samples, free shipping, and with the new promos

they run every month, you'll save even more. Use the promo code Ramsey to get the best deal. Today's question comes from Trish in Missouri. Our son graduated from high school in 2021. He decided to use his scholarships, working income, and a small subsidized federal loan to pay for college so far he has done an amazing job with his finances he had 17 700 saved for him in his 529 but he wanted to leave it alone and use it for his later years of school when he might need it even more the 521 529 was doing so well we neglected to look at the funds he was in and move it to safer funds as he got closer to 18 years old. It grew to $18,700 by 2022, but has dropped significantly to $14,800 as of today. We realize now this was a mistake. Now with less than three years of college left, the market is still looking grim. Do we move it and cut our losses? Tell him to use it all that he can now

or just wait it out? Also, Missouri, where our 529 is as of right now, will not let us use 529 to repay back loans later. Thanks for the advice. This is interesting. I feel like the first thing I would do is just kind of talk to you guys about your mindset. I mean, you're saying that he's taken out federal subsidized student loans so far and that he's also doing great with his finances. I think the fact that even debt was on the table to begin with isn't great. You had a 529 available and then you still took out a student loan. I kind of would just challenge you first and foremost to go, let's not do debt. Like, let's first establish that mindset and take it off the table and then explore options from there. I think if that was kind of a conversation from the beginning, you probably would have used the 529 earlier on and he wouldn't have taken out a loan. But Dave, I'm curious about your thoughts on this. Well, we're never going to tell you to take out a loan. Exactly. Period. Okay, so now we got to figure it out. Because here's what taking out a loan is in this situation. If you're taking out a loan so that you can leave this alone and let it come back up that's like saying i'm going to borrow fourteen thousand

eight hundred dollars hoping and invested in the stock market hoping it will go up well you would never do that that's dumber than a rock and so no we're not going to do that we're not going to take out a loan in order to give this time to ride back up what we are going to do is put Junior to work. Yeah, W-O-R-K. I want him busting it. And I want him, you know, using Christina's materials and applying for scholarships, like a bazillion of them. I want him to apply, apply, apply, apply, apply. I want him working all the time. And then the other question I've got is where is he in school you know is he in an

expensive school you can't afford so in other words if you want to leave this money alone and let it come back up which is a good idea actually the only way to do that is find the money to pay for school because three years if he's got three years left that's a lot of time it's going to come back up right and you got to find the money, because this is not enough to get him through school. Well, and if they continue going forward with the way they're going forward, three years of taking out loans is going to add up to a lot of money. Like you're saying that it's a good, he's done well with his finances so far, but three more years of taking out loans, that's not going to be good. So it's amazing the creative options you come up with when you take debt off the table. He's going to have to maybe look at what school is he at? Can he go to a cheaper school? Is there some sort of employer

he can work for that has a tuition assistance program? What scholarships are out there? Can he talk to the financial aid office and see if they can offer him anything else? Like when you don't have debt as an option, then you really start fighting for yourself and trying to figure out what are the most strategic ways for me. A ton of these retailers like Target, for instance, and others are, if you're working a certain number of hours, they're so desperate, they're willing to pay tuition. Legit. And so, yeah, and that changes the numbers on what you're making while working there. I mean, you might be making 18, you might be making $22 an hour and getting free tuition.

Potentially thousands of dollars in tuition. Like that is a lot of benefit right there. Plus, you're building your resume. I mean, you may be starting in a basic retail position, but maybe you can be a manager by the time you graduate. So if you're not going to borrow any more money for the next three years, you've got to figure out a way to pay for college anyway. So while you're doing that, that gives you also time to let this money grow back before

you cash it in. Yep. Because I'll tell you that in 12 months, I think you'll be fine. It's going to be back. That's my guess. Might be 18. Might be 18. But bear markets, there's very few bear markets would have lasted longer than that when you start this process.

This bear market started basically at the first of this year. And a four-year bear market is almost nonexistent in history. There's almost none of them. And so, you know, two years, you're going to be fine. Eighteen months, you're going to be fine. Something like that, you're going to make some money on this money. But the point is you've got to have some money anyway to get through school without debt, and so we need to go find that money from working, from scholarships,

from work scholarships, whatever it is we're doing, and from school choice and so forth. So you've got a lot of work to do, period, across the board. And the book is Debt-Free Degree. It is in the Ramsey store at RamseySolutions.com, and it will help you with this process. And, Austin, if you can figure out who this person is and how to send it to them, go ahead and send them one, okay? I don know whether what our connectivity is on all these questions that

come in by email and other things so but if you can do that get him out get him one out get her and one out I guess and but yeah it's almost like uh we're doing good with our money while we borrow student loans is as dumb a statement as I don't have any debt. Oh, wait, I've got student loans. Yeah, that's debt. It's just those are both dumb statements. But I think there is that mindset now.

People keep saying that student loans, it's good debt. And people just seem like that. That for some reason seems to be. God, people are starting to realize it's bad debt. I mean, it's so bad the president has to forgive it. But still keep giving out loans. Yeah. Well, thank you for that.

That's good. You ruined the whole thing there. Robert's with us. Robert is in New Hampshire. Hey, Robert, what's up? Hi, guys. Thanks for taking my call. Sure.

So me and my wife have been on a credit card with $35,000 to $37,000 for the last 15 to 20 years. I'm wondering if pulling from my 401k to pay that is smart or not. Well, if you don't change your habits, you'd go right back in debt, wouldn't you? Correct. So we don't have a credit card problem. We've got a habit problem. With just the one credit card. Everything else is good.

And we have a minimizing problem. Yes. You call me up because you're stressed out about your credit card, and then you're like, well, it's just one. Okay, which one is it? Is it a problem or isn't it? Okay. It's definitely a problem. So, no no we're not cashing out your 401k

for two reasons one is you got to change you and that's the best answer for your long-term wealth building and two is um if you cash out your 401k they're going to charge you a 10 penalty plus your tax rate so you're going to get hit 30 to 40 percent and so that that's like saying, hey, Dave, I want to borrow money at 30% interest to pay off my credit card. I would, of course, say no. And you would even say no to that, Robert. So no, we're not doing that. So the question I'm actually asking is, do I take a loan out against my fund?

No, no, no, no, no. You can't borrow your way out of debt, sir. Doesn't work. Can't get out of a hole while you're digging out the bottom. It's time to address Robert. Look in the mirror. Say, you to address Robert. Look in the mirror. Say, you're the problem. Look in the mirror.

Say, you're the solution. Hold on. I'm going to send you a book called Total Money Makeover that's helped 10 million people fix what you need to fix. This is The Ramsey Show. are you sick of planned obsolescence you, when companies make products crappy so you have to buy more of their crappy products? Well, me too. And it's why I love companies like Grip6. Grip6 is all about quality products meant to last forever. That's why their comfortable, bulk-free belts, slimline wallets, and lightweight wool socks

all come with a lifetime warranty and simple returns and exchanges. So check them out at GRIP6.com today and get up to 20% off with the promo code RAMSEY. Christine Ellis Ramsey personality is my co-host today number one best-selling author in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage Brian and Valerie are here hey guys how are you doing great we're doing awesome welcome good to have you guys how much where you guys live Denver Colorado cool welcome to Nashville thank you How much have you paid off? Well, married, we paid off $160,000 in 22 months, and single, or all together, we paid off $205,000

in 34 months. Okay. Before the 22 months started, or is that total, including everything? That's before the 22 months started. So the total is more like $365,000. Or it's $205,000 total in 34 months. Oh, okay. That's the total. That's what I was at. Sorry. All right.

So that's good, good, good, good, good. All right. And so during the 22 months, what was your range of income? It was $213,000 to $273,000. All right. Very cool. What do you guys do for a living? I'm an engineer.

And I'm a manager for an engineering firm for a CAD manager. Ah, okay. Very cool. What do you guys do for a living? I'm an engineer. And I'm a manager for an engineering firm for a CAD manager. Ah, okay. Very cool. Kind of figured out how you two met. Okay. And so, all right. And so we had $205,000 total. Yes. And started working on it before we're married, finished it after we're married. Tell us the story. how did all this work yeah so I it started in August 2020 so right or yeah 2020 right before the pandemic and uh or August 2019 and I was in interning as an engineer before I got my first job and my good friend Mark who is a marine reservist just want to point that out so you can imagine how intense he is but he came into

my office and kept trying to get me to do this ramsey thing in this fpu class and i was like no i'm fine i'm fine and uh finally two weeks before the class started he came in and he closed my door and was like why won't you take this class and And I was, I think I just broke down crying. Yeah. I just broke down. This is like illegal right here. This is how we do it in the armed forces. So he, I kind of opened up to him.

And my family, we'd lost four people in four years um and dealing with ptsd i'd just gotten out of the military and i was broke i was in six figures of debt and i just i was scared and ashamed and i was making less than 40 000 with six figures of debt. And he could see your eyes. Yeah. And he convinced me to take it. And I was pretty resistant for six weeks. It wasn't until the seventh class that I was like, okay, fine. I know. You are a hard case.

I mean, usually first or second class, I get them. I mean, seven class. I was so angry, especially about the student loans. I was convinced I couldn't go to college without student loans. And then you did. Yeah, okay. So. Wow. Yeah, it was.

Okay, so that gets you started on the whole thing. Yes. And then poor Brian wanders into the story. Oh. It was our first date I was talking about it. And I was like, yeah, if you're not on board, I'm just not sure about this. So our FPU classes became date night. And it was the only way I got to keep seeing her.

You went from I'm not going, I'm going to cry about it to we're not even going on a second date if you're not in, dude. Yes. Wow. Seventh class was thorough. eye about it too uh we're not even going on a second date if you're not in dude yeah wow this is a what seventh class was thorough i mean at least the conversion was thorough but then she was all in yeah i was all in and then some and i think it was chris hogan it was three years ago i think he was in that one yeah and his deep voice just really got me i I was like, oh, I need to do this. It's very commanding. It is commanding. Very cool. Good for you guys. So you finally get convinced and then you get started. What did the journey of paying off the debt look like? It had its ups and downs. You know,

we stuck together and we did our first budget meeting. That was fun. That was six hours. Yeah. Six hours. Yeah. It was a date, right? This is two engineers, all right? So I'm a nerd with the spreadsheet.

He could not give up the spreadsheet. No, no, not at all. And then it became easier once we kind of jumped into the full, like, we're all on board. We're not doing a Davish. We got the EveryDollar app. And so I had to release control of my spreadsheet. Oh, that's devastating. I think it was.

But it was totally worth it. And, you know, us being a new married couple, financials can be a real struggle and a real stress on the marriage. But we went into it knowing we were on the same plan. And it just made, it's made our marriage so much more successful and wonderful.

Who were your biggest cheerleaders in the process? Well, our best friends, Lisa and JT came with us today. Way to go, guys. And then our FPU coordinators I think they're listening right now Mary and Mark oh that Mark was the coordinator yes yes okay he's recruiting for the class I got it I mean he was all in so love it way to go Mark yeah that's awesome

so so you truly experienced that resistance and now yes are here, you went all in, you paid it off. So if you were in Mark's position and you're, I mean, you're in his position right now, there are people listening who feel that same level of resistance. What would you tell them? Well, I would just tell them for someone like me, who I just, I was so, I just thought I was so strong and I could do this all on my own. And I was too ashamed and embarrassed and too prideful to think that I was doing something wrong. And so I think the biggest thing is to be humble enough to put your pride down. And if it's not working for you, try something new. So good.

It's not like it's your identity. Right. But people treat it so, we hold on to it with such a tight fist we do you know and so that that whole part of your journey is actually more beautiful than the paying off of the debt i've changed completely um i was so resistant and so hard-headed and now it just feels like I'm a different person. Well, you had so much loss. Yeah. And then you had some anger to go with it. Yes.

And you had quite a little chemistry thing going on here. I had a lot going on. A little chemistry set going on here. I was just mad all the time. Yeah, yeah. And then you just aimed your mad at the right thing. Yes. And knocked it out yeah and

that there is something that sets you free when you do that that's very powerful yes very cool you guys are you guys are a neat couple and uh what you've been through and what you've been through together is very very very strong you're set up to win at an unbelievable level now uh because not only that but you probably heard us say that in the millionaire study that we did the number one uh career choice of millionaires is engineer and you're and we have two of them here twice the shot at it yeah and you've been through fpu and you're thoroughly thoroughly thoroughly converted by less than seven oh my god yes yeah still i still can't get over that, but yeah, it's good. It's very good. What a way to start your marriage.

Like, you can just tell by the way y'all look at each other that you're so connected. Yeah. Yeah, that's just powerful. I love it. Hey, we got a copy of the Total Money Makeover for you. You'll be able to give that away as you continue to tell people what has

happened in your life we're so proud of you you guys are amazing amazing couple and of course baby steps millionaires because that's the next chapter in your story you're right on your way to that and a uh one year membership to financial peace university that you can give away as you're talking about it so the live and give bundle is just for you guys we're so proud of you very very very well done all right if you got to tell people one thing or two things they got to do to get out of debt what do you tell them um everybody says it's a budget but i mean it's true you have to stick to it um and don't everybody has a mountain to climb we we all have doesn't matter how small or how large it is um

we all have to do it and so just stick with it uh stay on the path and you'll climb that it's uh one bite at a time right the elephant that's how you eat the elephant beautifully done well done brian and valerie denver colorado what a great story 205 000 paid off single and married over 34 months making 213 to 27 Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. I'm debt-free! Yeah! That'll keep you coming back.

I love it, baby. Woo! Woo! This is The Ramsey Show. Our scripture of the day, Romans 14, 17. For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit. Mark Twain said, to get the full value of joy, you must have someone to divide it with. Well done, Mark Twain.

Mark Twain the romantic. Who knew? Hey, folks, if you like this show, please do us a favor. We need three favors from you. One is subscribe on YouTube. Subscribe on the podcast. Number two, leave a review. That would be a five-star review.

We don't really need your one stars. Thank you very much. And share it with a friend. Tell somebody to listen. Tell somebody to jump in. Be part of the program. Be part of a... Tell them what it's done for you. I mean, that young couple there, we got to meet them at the break.

Absolutely amazing and just powerful stories. And you guys on radio, YouTube gets a little bit of glimpse of it, but on radio you didn't get to see her eyes. I mean, it just lit up. I mean, she's just on fire and uh they they you know they're again they financial peace university um the podcast that you know the whole thing and um and now they're uh i mean what would you pay to get rid of two hundred five thousand dollars worth of debt it's ninety nine dollars to go through fp i mean this is like a good trade that's what i see there's a very good roi that's a good roi daniel is with us in mobile alabama hi daniel how are you hey i'm

great it's a honor to be on with you well thank you sir how can we help i've got a i've got two questions my first question is the way the market is today. I've lost roughly $60,000. I've got a Vanguard target retirement account. My question is to stop the bleeding. So you've got like a half million dollars in it? No. I have about $225,000 in it.

And you lost $60,000 since when? Since about a year, in the past year. Well, the market's down 13%. That wouldn't be $60,000 on $220,000. Well, I'm down about $160,000. Wow. Oh, you're down about 60 you said yeah down to 160 i see yeah yeah okay all right um and my question i've been listening to a lot of things on the radio and i've talked to a few people what is your opinion about indexed annuities would i be

would there be any advantage to go into something like that just to stop the bleeding yeah it's too late i mean you're not stopping the bleeding unless you think it's going to continue to bleed out and i don't um and so the only person that gets hurt on a roller coaster is one jumps off in the middle of the ride and so um you know i'm i'm not sure that i'm a fan of uh your initial selection of funds um but how old are you 66 okay i'm 62 and i have mine across four types growth growth and income aggressive growth and international and in the last 12 months the stock market and the the Dow Jones has lost about 13%, and that's about what I'm down, is about 13%.

You're down more than 13% is what you're telling me. So I would not move it to indexed annuities. I don't have a dime in indexed annuities. And so do you need the money today? No. Okay. You've got other money? Yes.

Okay. What's it in? Well, I'm retired. Of course, I've got my teacher retirement. I've got my Social Security. I'm debt-free, except if I cost, say, a debt, I'm helping pay for law school for one of my daughters. So that's really the only thing that I have. That's your only nest egg.

Yes. And you're living off of your teacher pension and stuff. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Now I've got, I had about $75,000 just in savings that I'd been putting some, diverting some to there to be ready for the law school tuition. Good.

Okay. That's fine. Yeah, that's where it should be. That's good. All right. Well, the target fund that you have or the target funds that you have, what's the track record on them long term? How old are they? I can't answer that.

Okay. I got in about 2014. Okay. So you've been in eight, and it's not been a problem. It's just this particular downturn, you really took it on the chin. Yeah. You've ridden out a couple of other downturns, though. Yes. Like spring of 2020, remember that?

It dropped like crazy? Remember that? I'll be honest with you. For most of the time, I don't even look at it. Okay, all right. I'll be honest with you. For most of the time, I don't even look at it. Okay. All right. Well, if you go back and look, your fund, most funds dropped substantially around the COVID quarantine hit. And then they came back in September.

We're back to where they were. They're back even. But a lot of people jumped out with that downturn because they're freaking out over everything over COVID, right? And so right now we've got a Biden freakout going on or whatever you want to call it, inflation freakout, and corporate profits are down and so stocks are down. And because inflation is putting a squeeze on the profit margins as well as causing prices to go up. So, Daniel, no index funds I would not do, to answer your question. What I would do is sit down with a smart investor pro,

and let's do a little bit of learning, because I'm not sure I can answer your question without, I want to go back on this target fund and say, I've got to get comfortable with the history of it, that its recovery rate is about as good as the market's recovery rate. If I get comfortable with that, I'm probably just going to leave it alone. If I'm uncomfortable that this is a good selection and I need to move it into some other funds,

I'm going to move it from one set of funds that are down to another set of funds that are down that have a better recovery rate when the market turns up. I got you. That's what I would do. But no, the index fund is mythology because it has to ride the other stuff too. It's indexed off the stock market. That's what it's indexed off of. And they put some checks and balances in there in charge of double commissions to where you think you've got your principal protected protected and other stuff it's an insurance product and so i i wouldn't screw with it i

don't put any money in that kind of stuff i just ride these waves and the good news is you don't have to have the money and you can afford to ride the wave what you need is and what i would need if i were you and i'm asking you to get this is some intellectual um comfort that the recovery rate on this fund when the stock market recovers is reasonable that it's going to come back as the market comes back meaning that the fund is riding the market wave not just a bad fund um and it's scaring me because it's down further than the market pretty substantially so that's why I want you to look at that. If you told me you were off 13%, I'd just tell you to sit tight and ride it because that's what the market's off.

But when you're down more than 13% in 12 months, then if you're down from 220 to 160 in that period of time, then there's something else going on here, and I want to look at that. This may be a more volatile fund, which might mean it might recover faster, actually. So you just need to learn the fund. So jump on RamseySolutions.com, click on SmartVestor Pro, and learn. Because, Christina, the trick with this is history is the only shot you've got at getting some comfort on these things. I mean, if you look at a fund that's got an 80 year history,

like I've owned one that's 80 years old, okay, and I can go back and go, it's got 11.2% rate of return for 80 freaking years. And it's down 13%. I can kind of be calm, you know, history gives me comfort, right? But but if if I don't know those things, then it's harder to be calm. Yeah. And I think this is such an important conversation right now to have, because I think a lot of Gen Z millennials who this is their first time riding out, you know, a bear market, a rough market. It's just important. Like you said, the only person who gets hurt on a roller coaster is the person who jumped off. You know, it's just important to be able to look historically, you know, what are these markets like? And then just look at the funds and see the history, see the track record, and then have peace as you move forward and not freak out and jump off. The great news is that Daniel can live on his pension and he can just

leave this alone. And he can afford to let it ride back up. That's the great news in this call. So very well done. Very well done. That puts us out of the Ramsey Show and the books. Our thanks to Austin, Ben, Zach, Andrew, and James in the booth. I am Dave Ramsey, Christina Ellis, my co-host. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, Andrew, and James in the booth. I am Dave Ramsey. Christina Ellis, my co-host, will be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Have you been inspired to make a change with your money? Want to know where to start? Take our three-minute money quiz to get a plan you can follow.

Go to RamseySolutions.com and search for Get Started to get a plan for your money.