The Ramsey Show - App - I'm Having Trouble Buying a House Without a Credit Score (Hour 2)

Episode Date: December 17, 2020

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. You jump in, we'll talk about your life and your money. Rachel Cruz is my co-host today. Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, and my daughter. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

That's 888-825-5225. Jessica starts off this hour in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Hi, Jessica. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Thank you so much for taking my call, Dave and Rachel. I'm excited to be on. Sure. How can we help?

Okay, a little background. My husband and I are in our early 30s. We are just finding Dave Ramsey, and by we, I mean me. We have $30,000 in our savings. We're about $165,000 in retirement, and all of our debt is just in our mortgage, which is about $103,000. So due to COVID, I'm now a stay-at-home mom with three young kids. So we're down to one income, and I'm just trying to decide how do I get my husband to go in tents? Just because we're down to one income and have never been here before, and because it's just our mortgage,

he kind of thinks it's, well, fine, everything's good. There's no reason to just be crazy about it. But I've been hard in the family and think, you know, we can knock this out in seven years. So do I need to just break a little bit, or do we just hammer it? It's probably in between the two of you um gazelle intense is no eating out no restaurants no life because you're getting out of debt and baby steps one through three because you're broke and deeply in debt and you have to sacrifice and work like crazy to get out of debt once you have your emergency fund in place and you're debt free but your mortgage you move on to baby steps four five six four is 15 of your income going into retirement five's kids college and six is pay off the

mortgage early that is not gazelle intense that is that is intentional but not intense and so um what you know i so i probably want him paying more attention than he is and i want you to lighten up a little bit, somewhere in between. You see what I'm saying? What do you think, Rachel? Yeah, I mean, that's a good analysis because now that you're down one income, Jessica, it's naturally going to slow back. You guys have less money coming in. And so in order to do retirement still, in order to save for kids' college and putting money towards that,

there may not be a ton right at this moment to throw extra at the house, depending on what you guys have, what you're making. We bring home monthly around $4,100. Okay. All right. Yeah, you can put your 15% towards retirement, start something for the kids' college, and then any other money you can find in the budget.

We're going to do some living with it. I mean, you need to buy that couch or upgrade that car or whatever. You pay cash for all that, so no more debt. And then we're going to go ahead and start anything extra we get, we're going to throw at the house. You get a bonus. You get a little inheritance. Whatever it is, we throw it at the house, throw it at the house, throw it at the house. And most families will pay off that house in about seven or eight years, maybe nine.

But we don't need to just say on his side, oh, it doesn't matter, everybody has a mortgage. No, everybody's broke. You don't want to be everybody. Exactly. On the other hand, you don't need to live on beans and rice and have no life at all, and everybody's miserable, so you can put $5 more on the mortgage. Sure.

Okay. We definitely have a wiggle room there. I think it's just getting him to the point of understanding that we don't have to be like everybody else well you don't want to normal 78 of americans live paycheck to paycheck and i would give you guys credit though jessica because you guys aren't normal right now i mean you have you have thirty thousand dollars in savings no debt but a mortgage i mean you you guys are not normal right now in a great way. So you guys have made great headway.

But yeah, it's just that little extra at the mortgage. So you're already weird. Yeah, you're just trying to keep him from nodding off at the wheel. He needs to just keep driving. That's all. So you're in pretty good. You're in really good shape but in terms of just the way you communicate through this really all you need to ask for and expect is intentionality and not

accepting oh well everybody has a mortgage that's not okay on his side he needs to be able to expect well we're going to save up and buy this item or do this thing and we're going to do some of these other goals. And you know what I find too, Jessica, for men specifically, when they see something visually, it changes the game a lot of times. So even just like taking your mortgage, putting it in an Excel sheet or do a mortgage calculator, but show them how much of the money is going to interest. Show him exactly like what is happening. And if you paid off your house in seven years versus 15, how much you're going to save in interest, how much extra you're going to have

to go and invest. And just do a little mapping out since you're the nerd and you probably like this stuff. Just do, okay, from 15 years from today, if you're 30, 45 years old, if we still have the mortgage, here's what we would be financially. If we paid it off in seven years and we invested for seven years a mortgage payment, here's how much more we would be financially if we paid it off in seven years and we invested for seven years a mortgage payment here's how much more we would have so the visual standpoint for a lot of men helps when they see the math agreed open phones at 888-825-5225 lloyd is in boise idaho hey lloyd how are you i'm doing good how about you dave and rachel better than we deserve what's up i want to see what you think about.

I want to upgrade my motorhome, and I'm going to need probably around $50,000 to do that. I'm 58. My wife is 57. We're both retired. My net worth is about 1.5, and total in cash is about 1.2. But I wanted to know what you thought about where I should take that money out of to fund that motor home. And I was thinking of, I have 33,000 checking. I was going to take 10,000 out of there. I have 29,000 in savings. I was going to take $5,000 out of there.

And my wife's Roth IRA, she has $72,000. I was going to take $15,000 out of there and take $15,000 out of my IRA or Roth, which is $78,000. I'd leave your IRAs alone. Leave those alone? Let them grow tax-free. This other money is just sitting there. But where would you take that money from then? Well, you said there's a – I mean, you pulled 10 out of that first 33,

and after that you said there was another account that was sitting with cash, right? Right. The savings account has 79,000. It was 79,000, wasn't it? Like you said, that was – 29. Okay. I mean, you can clean that one out.

What was the one that was your retirement? 29. Okay. You can clean that one out. What was the one that was 79? Oh, that's the Roth RRA. Okay. Don't want to touch that one. All right. So you got 39, 10, and 29. So where are we going to get the other 20 without tapping into retirement? Well, that's what I was trying to wonder how we should how we should do that you don't i thought

you said you had a lot of cash how much is it all tied up in retirement the whole million seven no no um about a million two is in retirement tied up retirement okay now i do have a joint account that has 284 000 in it what's's that? That is just our regular account. Your investment account? It's just an investment account? Yeah, just simply a retirement fund. But it's not in a retirement fund of any kind? No, it's not.

Well, use some of that. Yeah, that's fine. Hey, man, you did great. Go buy an RV. You did it. Touchdown. You're a million and seven. You did it.

You worked your whole freaking life, man. Live like no one else and later buy an rv there you go that's what i mean 50 000 out of a million seven for a toy you dadgum right that's a good ratio do that this is the dave ramsey show You know, I hate to see people waste money, but that's exactly what happens when you buy an identity theft plan that guarantees, quote, you won't become a victim. Well, the reality is you can't prevent identity theft. All these credit monitoring and preventative plans with their fine print guarantees are just a bunch of hype.

Our personal information is everywhere and you can't control who gets access to it. Why do you think there's so many data breaches? Thieves steal your personal information and use it for medical ID theft, social security, IRS fraud, and even criminal activity. None of this shows up on your credit report, which makes these plans a waste of money. You need a plan that protects you against all types of ID theft and takes over all the work if you become a victim, since that is the real nightmare.

That's why I only recommend Zander's plan, and I have for years. I have it on my family and all my team members. It's the only plan worth buying. Go to Zander.com or call them at 800-356-4282. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. We're glad you're with us, America. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Merry Christmas to you.

Deanna is with us in Denver, Colorado. Hi, Deanna. How are you? Hi, Dave. Hi, Rachel. Nice to talk to you. Thanks for is with us in Denver, Colorado. Hi, Deanna. How are you? Hi, Dave. Hi, Rachel. Nice to talk to you. Thanks for taking my call. Our pleasure. How can we help? Well, I have about $300,000 in life insurance on myself. I'm a recent cancer survivor this year. Right now, there's no sign of the cancer, so that's great news. Yes. there's no sign of the cancer so that's great news yes i have thank you i have a cash or a

whole life policy for 61 000 that has a cash value of 6300 right now i'm trying to decide whether to cash it out and put it towards our debt snowball it would move our debt free data up about six months but because of the cancer me getting term life to replace it is not super great. And I'm just wondering what the right thing to do is. It's not going to happen this year at any reasonable rate anyway. So you have how much life insurance on you? This 63, and you said 300? Yeah, with the 63, there's 294.

Without it, there's 233. Okay. And what do you earn? I make about $53,000. Okay. So you're a little bit underinsured either way. Right. And you're married?

Yes, I am. And what does your husband make, and how much insurance does he have? He makes $50,000, and he has about $475,000 on him. So he's in better shape on his insurance. Yeah. I wouldn't drop it right now. Okay. I hate whole life.

I know. 99% of the time, I would tell you to cash it out. But, you know, we need to get you, get cancer further in the rearview mirror so we can get you more insurable and get you back up to about a half a million total at some point. And when you can do that reasonably within your budget, part of doing that will be to drop this. Okay. But as an abundance of safety, because you're just not going to get insurance for a little while. I mean, you can get it, but the cost is going to be astronomical.

And Deanna, your husband, is his a whole life policy or is his term? No, his is term. Okay. Okay. I was going to say for him to get out if it was whole life. That's a good point. Yeah. So you can call Zander Insurance and even talk with one of their reps and start to get a feel for,

you can even run an application in if you wanted to, just to get a feel for what, because they'll bounce back and go, well, we can't cover you now, but we'll be able to cover you in 18 more months. Or in 24 months, the rate is going to drop in half of what it would be today or something like that. So you can kind of start planning. The further cancer gets in your rearview mirror that you know the more likely you're going to get insurance and the less it's going to cost okay well thanks for your advice we've paid off a lot in the last two years thanks to you guys and i just love the program so thank you thank you we're

proud of you well done you did it we didn't pay it good job and you beat cancer that's even yeah there's that little aside. Bigger than the debt. Much bigger. Much bigger. Teresa's in Tampa, Florida. Hi, Teresa. How are you?

Hi, I'm great. Thank you and Rachel for taking my call. I appreciate it. Sure. How can we help? I have a question. I work for a very small company. There are seven employees. I'm a geriatric care manager and I make

about $40,000 a year and I had a client that passed away a couple of months ago and out of the blue, her family sent me a text written out to me as a gift. They said it was a small token of their appreciation for taking care of their loved ones. And it's for $5,000. Wonderful. That's a lot. That's a lot of money for me. But our company doesn't have a policy against gifts or about monetary gifts. So my boss is trying to figure out what he wants me to do. I have sent an email to the person that gave it to me and said, thank you so very much, I really appreciate it, but I don't feel like I can accept this money,

but they are insisting that I keep it. Good. They should. And it's none of your boss's business if he doesn't have a policy. Well, that's kind of my question i i have um in in my heart if if they insist that i keep it if i can't get out of it um i have definitely some charities that i want it to go to and some things that i know were near and dear to my client's heart Teresa, Teresa, no, no. You're supposed to have this money. You serve these people, and they were grateful.

You're supposed to enjoy this money. You don't need to feel guilty. You didn't do anything wrong. Have you ever gone to a restaurant and left a tip that was a really nice tip for somebody that did a great job waiting on a table? As much as I can do. I know, but have you left a nice tip where you were kind of like, that was a good tip? Yeah. Did you want that person to feel guilty and go give it to a charity because they didn't deserve it?

No, they deserved it. They waited on your table and did a good job, and you were honoring them, and it honored you to be able to do that to give them that tip don't mess this up this was for you you did great this is an attagirl well thank you for that i just i i not only feel guilty i also my boss has been kind of mentioning different ways she thinks it ought to be spent. I don't care what he thinks. It's not his money. It's not her money. It was made out to you, right, from this family.

Yes. Okay. Now, if I am your boss, I am going to be not with you, but this raises a question in the business that you all are in. If I'm leading this organization, I think he should or she should put a policy in place that limits gifts because we don't want the caregivers that people are paying for with our company to get wrong motivations where they try to snuggle up with the person they're taking care of in order to get money. And we don't want this to turn toxic.

You didn't do that but if i'm in your business i want to make sure the caregivers are not being toxic in order to uh you know try to get some sugar daddy thing going on the boss's problem though yeah that and that's their problem and this just makes them recognize that but they don't get a vote this is your money absolutely i mean and i want you to enjoy it If you want to give a little bit of it, I'll give you a maximum. No more than $500. The other $4,500 has to be spent to further your life and your income. This was for you, Teresa.

Part of the art of giving is also learning to receive. And it's very hard for some folks to receive. But this is for you. please don't give it away it is dishonoring to the people that sent it to you if they wanted it to go to the ministry that support a ministry that the person that died uh they would have given it to that ministry they didn't give it to them they gave it to you and considering they wrote you a check thanking you they probably have been giving elsewhere They're probably a family of givers. And they probably said, wow, you took care of my mom.

My mom loved Teresa. That woman you took care of probably talked about you, Teresa, all the time to her family. And when she passed, they said, we want to bless Teresa because she blessed us. So you're good. You're good. That's it. You're good. That's it.

And we've had the pleasure as Ramses to do do that kind of thing many times and we fully expect it to go to you and i you know if i if i were on this family side i would be telling you the exact same thing and by the way they are telling you the exact same thing i'm telling you you keep it and know it's not your bosses and know your boss doesn't get a vote. If your boss wants to put a policy in place for future things, then that's okay. They can do that. And that might not be a bad idea. And to kind of help ease the pain for you, Teresa, of taking this $5,000, we will say if someone gets a big inheritance or a grandparent leaves a chunk of money

to a grandson or granddaughter, whatever the case is, we do say, yeah, there's a level of you can honor their legacy really well and use this money maybe to pay off debt or to save or to do something great to further your life. You can just go spend it. I don't care. But for you to ease that a little bit, maybe you say, you know what, I'm going to help pay down my car and start working my way to get out of debt, whatever the case is. Whatever you do with it, think of the lady that you cared for. Is she smiling when you're doing that with that money? And then you know you're honoring her legacy.

She's in heaven watching you, and she's smiling. She probably is already smiling about this conversation. You're awesome, Teresa. You're a sweet, sweet heart. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. Thank you. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host this hour. Open phones at 888-825-5225. You jump in, we'll talk about your life and your money. 2021 is right around the corner, thank God.

This new year, take time to understand yourself and learn how to make healthy money decisions. Rachel Cruz, my co-host, is going to help you unlock the psychology, the strengths, the challenges that come with each and the brand new seven money tendencies found in her new book, Know Yourself, Know Your Money. I was trying to figure out what that said. Okay. And you'll want to preorder it because if you preorder it before January the 4th, you can get $150 in free gifts. So you've got about a week, and you need to get this done. So also while you're there at DaveRamsey.com, check out the 90% off.

A lot of things there. Our Green Monday sale, lots of $10 items, including Rachel's Contentment Journal, which is now $10. Her former New York Times bestselling books are number one bestsellers are $10. My books are $10. So check it out online at DaveRamsey.com. Get the new book and get the ones that have been out a while for $10 each. Lots of bargains there.

Lots of things that you can do. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Colorado Springs. Michelle is with us. Hi, Michelle. How are you? I'm doing well. Thank you for taking my call.

Sure. How can I help? So my husband and I are in small business for a few years, and a business mentor has been mentioning having key man insurance for our business on the case of our death. Wanted to get your opinion on that, or if there's anything else that you would suggest that's in our wills regarding our business. Are you the sole owners?

Yes, we own the business. Okay. Well, key man insurance is typically used to buy a partner out. That's the most common use for it. The other time you would use it is just to replace the talent that is gone when the person passes away, the things that they're able to do that are unique to them and so it's going to leave a gaping hole and so uh as an example if you are driving the business and you're making the business run and you not being there it's going to walk with a limp for a while

uh then yeah you might want to put some key man on you okay all right i i i but i i had I've done that a time or two here where I had a particular person that was at the stage of business we were in that if they had passed away during that three-year period of time or something, that it would have really left us, we would have been in a mess because we were building the whole thing around that. And I have covered them for that. And I have kept some key man on me just to make sure if something happened to me that it would backfill until the business got to where it can run without me, which it is now.

It's easily running without me these days. But back in the day when it was all dave dependent you know uh then i carried some key man then you do not use whole life life insurance for this you use term life insurance michelle what kind of business is it um we do commercial cleaning so we're killing buildings kind of like you're all okay okay so what would happen to the business if your husband passed away oh that that's the problem okay he is the key man yeah okay so what does he do that makes him so key um he is basically the operations manager i mean he he and everything i mean he is the do everything guy okay and what's your what's your top line? What's your gross

revs in a year? Oh my goodness. I believe 300. Okay, all right. You know, I might put 100 on him or something like that to patch you through a third of a year, maybe 200 even, patch you through a portion, half of a year. But, you know, if he passes away, you're either going to turn around and sell this thing or you're going to put an ops manager in place to replace his day-to-day activities. Right. And so you would just put, you know, you just need to stop GAP

because if you replace the ops manager within 30 days of him passing and they're competent, you're not going to lose much revenue. But just to make double sure, carry a couple hundred on him extra, that wouldn't be a bad idea. It wouldn't be the end of the world, and that way you can cover for some lost revenue and maybe even a signing bonus to get a good ops manager in there. And I'll tell you what a lot of people do in your situation, too, if that were to come up.

They put an ops manager in there with the plan that that person is going to buy the business from you. And that's your exit strategy then. So we see that a lot as well when we're working with Entrez Leadership clients. Good question. Thank you for joining us. Melanie is in Portland, Oregon. Hi, Melanie. How are you?

Hi. I'm doing great. It's awesome to be able to talk to you. You too. What's up? Well, my husband and I would like to know your opinion on whether we should pay off our house now or put our money into retirement in the kids' college. So this is what we've got. He just got a bonus yesterday that will allow us, could allow us to pay off the house and still have like six months of emergency fund left. The issue being he has not been paying the total 15% into retirement. We have no college funds for our kids who are

ages two to 12. What's your household income? He works about $94,000. And what's the bonus? It's about $17,000, and we've got total with the savings would be about $119,000 in several different bank accounts that we have that we could use. In the house, we owe about 64 000 on it we you owe 64 000 you already have enough to pay off the house before we have enough to pay off before the bonus yes we have yes so why haven't you paid at all i think because i'm risk averse and my husband does have some health problems that I didn't want to have.

Risk-averse would cause you to pay off your house. Okay. Because you don't want a mortgage. Yeah, well, that's my thought. His thought is he doesn't have as much retirement as he wants. We have nothing for the kids. So instead of sitting in a bank account. Yeah, we've kind of dropped the ball the last couple of years.

He just got this new job about a year ago, so we've not been making $94,000 for a long time. This new job just happened about a year ago, so we haven't quite adjusted to the additional amount. The extra income, yeah. Yeah, if I woke up in your shoes i'd pay off the house go and pay it off okay uh that was that was my opinion okay yeah i would do it making sure that you still have and i would have for you six months worth of expenses in the bank you guys have that in addition right yes yep or that would be out out of the 119. So we say three to six months of expenses. I would go to six because of his health problems, all of that.

And I just like having extra money there. It just feels good. The cash is there. So beyond that, you guys do need to take your 15% of your income, of his income, if you're not working, into retirement. That needs to be a discipline. You need to be doing that. And then anything extra that you guys have after you've paid off the house, after the six months of expenses is there, throw some at the kids' college.

I'd go talk to a SmartVestor Pro, look at an ESA, look at a 529 option, and start that as well. But you guys need to be disciplined in that 94K that you're making a year, that 15% of that goes into retirement. Okay, Melanie. Great. Okay. Well, thank you so much. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Uh-oh.

We got an addition. We got an addition. Uh-oh. He you so much. Uh-oh. We got an addition. He's coming in. You've been sloppy. Yes. You cannot take part of Rachel's advice. It'll be bad advice. You have to take the whole thing.

It is time to take this blessing of this job and this money and be very intentional with it. It's been lazy. It's been sitting in a lazy bank account. It's time to put the whip on it and make it work. Pay off the house.

Start the 15% with a SmartVestor Pro and start the kids' college by the end of January. You have an assignment. By the end of January. No excuses an assignment. By the end of January. No excuses. Put that money to work. It is sitting over there being lazy. And you allowed it. Don't allow it to be lazy.

Put the whip on it. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. We'll see you next time. How would you like to make your money finally behave like we were talking about with her? You know, you make it go and do what it's supposed to do because you have an exact plan, a clear path, and you know exactly what to do, when to do it, and then you go do it because you've got cheerleaders in your corner, coaches cheering you on. You've got people telling you, do it right, don't go left, go right, showing you exactly what to do.

This is what happens when you get into Ramsey Plus. It's our step-by-step money plan that will help you pay off your debt really fast, faster than maybe you ever dreamed. And you can start spending and saving then how you want to because you don't have any freaking payments. You'll learn practical ways to pay off more debt and save for emergencies. You'll plan your spending in the world's best budgeting app, EveryDollar, and you'll track your progress. You can get a free trial to ramsey plus all you got to do to get 2021 rocking and get your reset get things started i mean after this

year you need to get started right ramsey plus for the free trial just text the word trial to 33789 text trial to 33789 mike is in rock hill south carolina hey mike welcome to the dave ramsey show hey dave how are you better than i deserve what's up i feel like we have hit a sort of a brick wall we are trying to build a house and are having no luck without a credit score so far. Hmm. Okay. I've talked to some folks at Churchill, and according to them, they go through local lenders for a construction loan. Yeah. And every local lender requires a credit score to get started, even though we have at least 20% down, if not way more than that.

And I just don't know what to do. Have you tried a credit union? I have. I've worked with my credit union I've been with since I was born, and they do manual underwriting, but they tell me they have to have a credit score to get started. Bull. And then they go from there.

I'm challenging that. They don't have to. Because they're portfolioing that loan. They're not selling that loan to anyone. That's just an underling. You need to get to a manager, a senior, the president of the credit union, depending on what size the credit union is. They do not need a credit score to make a construction loan.

That's absolutely asinine. I don't believe it. Okay. I would bust up on some people. Now, you know, Bank of America is not going to make you a construction loan without a credit score. I don't have any doubt. But I'm not doing business with those doofuses anyway.

Neither am I. But your local bank, I mean, listen, here's the thing. If you're dealing with a mortgage, like a Fannie Mae mortgage, you can get that manually underwritten. But most of the mortgage companies don't know how to do it because Fannie Mae requires a credit score to package them together or properly done manual underwriting, which not many people other than Churchill know how to do. Okay? So you will run into problems there. And there's a valid reason for that because they're packaging those loans together. They don't keep those loans.

They sell them. And in order to sell them, they've got to be packaged a certain way. Does that make sense? Yes. And if the opposite of selling them in this business is called portfolioing the loan, meaning the bank keeps the loan in-house, the credit union is portfolioing this construction loan or the local bank is either one and so they can they can make up whatever rules they want to make up there is absolutely no pressure on them

from an outside force of any kind that's requiring a credit score and so it's just a dumb butt policy that you got to bust up into meaning you got to get somebody use a brain i've been with you my whole freaking life since i was born and i got 20 down and i've got to get somebody to use their brain. I've been with you my whole freaking life since I was born, and I got 20% down, and I've got the permanent mortgage set up to take out the construction loan. You're only going to have the loan on the books while the house is being built. When it's completed, the mortgage is sitting over here already pre-approved. The takeout letter is in my hand to take out the construction loan.

And so this is almost a no risk for you. You know me. You know my income. You know my net worth and my other stuff, this is almost a no risk for you. You know me. You know my income. You know my net worth and my other stuff, or I can show it all to you. And so the credit score is a completely bogus, non-related issue. You follow me? Yes. So that's how I'm talking to the president of the credit union or the manager of whatever.

I don't know how big a credit union this is, but a lot of credit unions are small enough that the president's who you're going to end up talking to which is fine and it's you know it's just asinine and so this is one of those things you just challenge the policy and you just say that no it's not okay it's not okay that you're treating me a customer that way as if i somehow didn't pay my bills and and they do not if they're portfolioing the loan if a bank is keeping the loan in house the bank can completely make up whatever rules it wants to make up or waive any rules it wants to waive because they're keeping the loan it's just like if i'm loaning you money i can make up whatever rules i want to make up and if i go well you don't have a credit score but you got all this

other stuff well i don't need a credit score it but you've got all this other stuff. Well, I don't need a credit score. It's okay. You know, and that's all we're talking about here. So, but yeah, you run into people who've forgotten how to think. And sometimes we have to remind them. Well, that's the hard thing. It's just challenging the industry, right? And so when you don't have a credit score because you've gotten yourself out of debt

and it's been a long enough time that it's not there, there are going to be things, insurance, renting an apartment, underwriting a mortgage, construction loan, all those things. You can run up against things because the industry has been so set. But there are ways around it all. Yep. I mean, Anthony sat the other day. He's got it on YouTube and called 15 apartment complexes and just asked the question. He said, I'm moving from out of town.

I'm just getting started moving out of my parents' house. I don't have a credit score. Will you rent to me? And out of 15, 12 said they would. There you go. With a deposit. And he said a couple of them had an extra deposit if you didn't have a credit score. And a couple of them were just, no, it's no problem.

There's no problem at all. If you've got your deposit and they have to have you know, they have to have proof of income. You have to have a job. Yes, yes. But, you know, normal stuff that the apartment's going to look at. But this idea that no apartments will rent to you without a credit score, he got a 12 out of 15 that would. And he didn't say, I'm Anthony O'Neill. He just called and said, hey, I'm just checking. I'm coming out. I'm moving from out of town.

And he put it all on YouTube. So you can pull it up on the AO's channel and see that somebody says, oh, you have to have a credit score for getting a ruined apartment. No, you don't. No, you don't. 12 out of 15. Dentists agree. Apartment complexes agree. 12 out of 13 apartment complexes agree.

All right. Up next is going to be Steve. Steve is in Phoenix. Hi, Steve. How are you? Hi, Dave. I appreciate you taking my call. Sure. How can I help?

Yes, I have a mortgage with a principal and interest left of $277,000. And I have $1.6 million in my 401k. And I was wondering if I should pull that money out in one lump sum or spread it across a couple years for tax purposes to pay off my mortgage. How old are you? Sixty-six. Okay. You can sit down with your tax preparer and decide if you want to do it over two or three years just to not bump up a tax bracket.

But I think you're going to bump up a tax bracket anyway is my guess um i mean you could look at tax planning this and make it doing it the most tax efficient way i gotta tell you you've worked your whole life and i'm guessing you didn't it did not inherit this money because it's in a 401k right that is correct and you're 66 years old and you've got $1.7 million. Way to go. Congratulations. I think you worked your whole life to have more peace than you've got with a mortgage. So regardless of the tax situation, if I were in your shoes, I'd probably just pay it off. I want to be out of debt.

And I'm going to pay some taxes to do that because this is a taxable account when you cash out a 401k traditional. And so to get $27 277 out you're probably going to take out 377 something like that and so your net worth is not going to change one penny it's going to be exactly the same the only difference is you'll have more equity in a house and less equity in your 401k still have 1.3 and still have 1.3 in the 401k yeah yeah exactly so you're still going to be a millionaire in 401k alone not to mention your paid for house i want the piece of a paid for house and i it just does i there's few things i've done in my life that compare with the day i paid off my mortgage in the financial parts

of my life uh you take your shoes off and walk through the backyard, the grass just feels different. The borrower is slave to the lender. And I know you've got the money, and I know you can pay it off anytime you want. So my answer to that is, do it. Yeah, I would do it. Good question, sir. Thank you, and congratulations on being an everyday millionaire.

You're what makes America great. You guys, the people like that guy right there, they're everywhere. They're all over America, and they're real quiet. Hardly anybody knows they're there. There's about 12 million guys just like him and her, and gals like him and her. They're all over the place. That puts us out of the Dave Ramsey Show and the books.

Thanks to James Childs, our producer, Kelly Daniel, our associate producer and phone screener. I am Dave Ramsey, your host. We'll be back. This is James Childs, producer of The Dave Ramsey Show. You can listen to Dave, Rachel Cruz, Chris Hogan, or the rest of the Ramsey Network anywhere with the Ramsey network app on your smartphone. Catch all of our full shows, browse by topic or send clips to your friends, head to the app store and download the Ramsey.