The Ramsey Show - App - I'm in So Much Debt That I'm Ready To Live in a Box! (Hour 2)

Episode Date: June 2, 2021

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. Anthony O'Neill, Ramsey personality, host of The Table on YouTube, and as a podcast, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Anthony is with us in San Diego to start off this hour.

Hi, Anthony. How are you? Dave, how's it going? Thanks for having me on your show. Our pleasure, sir. How can we help? So I've got a lot going on right now, for sure. I feel like I'm ready to live in a box and get out of debt because it's so much stress and anxiety all the time for me. And my wife is like, she's on,

like she's learning and doing some of the steps, but she's just like not as intense as I am. And it's hard for her, for me to expect that from her with, you know, our lifestyles that we've grown up with. And so it's, so I just said, I'm not sure how to, how to get her on the same page as me. And we're like in the middle of selling our house right now, you know, to pay off debt and buying a new place.

And so there's just a lot going on, yeah. I'm confused as to what your question is. Give me an example of what's going on where you're struggling. Sounds like you're on the same page you're selling the house, right? Yeah. So where is it you're not on the same page? I mean, like, I could, well, I have, you know, I have a kid, he's a year old, somewhere we're not on the same page as, like, selling the truck and a fifth wheel that we have.

We have a loan for $60,000. I mean, I wish I knew about Dave Ramsey like a year ago before I made all these financial decisions. But basically, we bought a truck and we bought a fifth wheel. Fifth wheels at $40,000. And then the truck's around $60,000 for loans. So $100,000 on these two items, and you want to sell them and she doesn't? Yeah. Okay. Why does she not want to sell them? She thinks you're going to pay them off quickly?

Yeah, she thinks that we can. So because we're selling our house, so the only smart thing I've ever done with my money is when I got here in San Diego, I bought a house right away back in 2016. So how much are you going to make on the house when you sell it? I'm going to walk away with like $165,000. Okay, but you're going to go buy a cheaper house. I don't, I mean, probably not. Oh, you're going to go rent. Okay, how much debt do you have?

So I have the $100,000 in loans, and I have $73,000 on credit card debt. And what's your household income? So I'm in the military. I make like $100K a year, $110, and then we rent out a room. Does your wife work outside the home? No, not right now, but she wants to pick up a job. She'll probably be making a couple thousand dollars a month.

How old are you guys, 25? 26. Okay. How old is your wife? She's 27. Okay. Here's just some common sense, okay, for both of you. Yeah.

And it's not a matter of intensity, and it's not a matter of who's right or who's wrong when you own stuff with wheels and motors that totals more than half your annual income and it goes down in value very very quickly it is very difficult to win financially yeah and so you have a bunch of crap you can't afford, even if you paid it off. Yeah, I mean, it's just hard to convince her because, you know, I get a steady income and like. Yeah, but your steady income is not enough to justify $100,000 worth of pickup and fifth wheel when you only make $100,000. You're going to lose $20,000 a year on this little get-up while you're making $100,000. It's going the wrong way at a faster pace than it needs to with your income. If you made $400,000 a year, you could justify this if you paid it off quickly. So I would not take the house money and pay all of this off.

I'd take the house money and pay off the credit cards, and I'd sell these two dadgum things and buy you a car with the house money or a truck with the house money that you pay cash for. And the total of all your vehicles with wheels and motors needs to be less than $50,000. If you want to win with money. Now, if you want to go around and be stupid and normal, stupid and normal is everywhere. That's a long line to get in. Yeah, I mean, I understand that. It's just been tough for me to relay that uh well it's a simple

math thing it's not an emotional thing it's not a you're right she's wrong thing it's a honey when we bought this we were stupid we didn't have the money to do this when you make a hundred thousand dollars and you own a hundred thousand dollars worth of crap that's going down in value, it's hard to get ahead. We need to undo our stupid here. This is the conversation we'd have at our house. Yeah, I was just about to say that

because I heard Anthony laugh and he was like, Dave, you're asking me to go to my wife and say we were stupid. I think this millennial generation... Or say he was stupid. Yeah, I was about to say that. I don't care. But there's plenty of stupid to go around here. Anthony's like, I'm going to be sleeping on the couch, Dave.

Well, I mean, we want to keep the dadgum trailer. That's right. So we is stupid. We can figure this out here. But you can not be insulting if you don't want to be. That's fine. The point is that there's a simple math thing going on here this is not a i think we can afford it because we can pay the payments thing that's what children say you know i'm not married okay but this is what i would say i definitely don't don't don't go to your 27 year old and say we

were stupid i will go to her and say hey babe here's a vision that I have for the family that I think we're both aligned with. We want to be financially free. We want to be debt free. We want a prosperous life. And right now, these two decisions that we made, that's preventing us from getting there quicker. I know you don't like this, but can you just trust me? I talked with Dave. I got some wisdom. They all agree that we need to sell this and eventually one day we can get back there but if we could do this sell this sell the house we could be financially free within the next three to six months and i think that's a good way of saying we're stupid without saying we were stupid now we're saying we're smart you're just you're just so much smoother than i am but

the uh um so here's the thing guy the other thing i heard you say that's the problem here you said i'm stressed out yeah well that tells me that she hasn't got a clue what's going on with the money and she's not carrying emotionally any of the weight of your all's bad decisions she's acting like you're her daddy, not her husband. And when she feels the weight of this go across her shoulders, which she needs to feel because she's like a grown-up and everything, then she's going to see this whole thing differently. But you're trying to take care of her and her have all of her little girl feelings.

Sorry, you're like a grown woman now. And grown women own up to, grown men own up to when we do something stupid. I've done plenty of stupid. I made a reputation with it. I made a living off of the fact that I've done stupid. And tell people all the time, there's no shame in that. The shame is staying in it. This is the Ramsey Show. In an uncertain world, being a good steward of your money is more important than ever.

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Our question of the day comes from Blinds.com. Find out for yourself why Blinds.com is the number one online retailer of custom window coverings. You get free samples, free shipping, and with the new promos they run every month, you'll save even more. Use the promo code RAMSY to get the best possible deal. You get free samples, free shipping, and with the new promos they run every month, you'll save even more. Use the promo code RAMSY to get the best possible deal. Dave, this is a pretty dope question, and it comes from Sean in Missouri.

Sean says, I'm 21 years old and currently make $31,000 per year at his job. I've been able to complete some college courses in the evening, but it's challenging to keep up with school while working full-time i have a plan that would allow me to work a part-time job during school and graduate still without loans is moving to a part-time job worth the risk or should i keep my full-time job and continue with college courses part-time my my vote is do what you got to do to graduate debt-free if you can do that with a part-time job, great. If you have to work a full-time job, do that. The key thing is not graduating fast. To me, the key thing is graduating without student loans. Amen.

That will cause you 10 years later to be ahead of the goobers that are saddled with student loans around their necks. And so the other thing is this. The question changes, Sean, depending on what you're studying and why you're studying it. If you're getting a degree in left-handed puppetry, quit college and keep working. If you're getting a degree in digital security,

then get through school as fast as you can. Pay whatever price you've got to do with no debt. Because you're going to get out there and you're going to make more money as a result of the schooling. All education is not economically profitable. Some subjects are economically useless. So be studying something that causes your dadgum income to go up. You make $30,000, be out there making $60,000, $80,000, $100,000 when you come out, and then it's worth working your butt off at the part-time job

and leaning in and getting through the school real fast. But what you're studying matters. Yes. And where you're going to school matters because it's how fast you can pay for it and pay cash for it. Yeah. So very, very good question. I agree with you, Anthony. That was a great, great thing.

So the problem, Anthony, and you've done so much work in the student loan sector, and our Borrowed Future podcast has had millions and millions and millions of downloads now, and you're kind of the star of that show where we talk about the epic failure that is the student loan world. But part of the backlash against higher ed for going up so much in cost and against the student loan debacle is to say no one ever should go to college. And we don't believe that here. No, not at all. Not at all.

I believe that college is a great route um i believe education is the best route for all of us but how we go about the education and where we go to get the education will be different depending upon individuals some may go to community college some may go to trade school some may go into the workforce and get education there some may go to a traditional school If you want to be a school teacher, you got to go to a traditional school route. But if you want to be a welder, you can go to welding school and make more than the school teacher. Exactly. You can.

And so I think one thing that I really want people to understand, I didn't finish my college degree and there's nothing wrong with that because my route didn't require that. But I'm still getting educated every single day within my space and so i think the key thing that i'm telling young people and even not just young people dave all people is identify where you want to go and ken coleman teaches us who is our career expert once you identify where you want to go then backtrack and see what's the best route for you to get there. And then if it is school, then cool, great. We'll help you get there 100% debt free. But here's the thing, Dave. Study shows that out of three kids who go off to college, only one of them is going

to graduate. Only one. So my thinking is step back and realize. Well, you need to have a plan. Yes. You know? Yes. And, you know, the university that our kids went to, I've told the story a thousand times with Denise sitting in our oldest.

I went to the parent orientation with the kid, and I'm sitting beside the freshman, and they were all braggy. They were all jacked up. They were all so happy at the University of Tennessee that they had a 54% graduation rate. I said, wait a minute. If she gets a 54 on a test, you're going to call that an F, right? A 54 is a failing grade, Bubba. That's it, Dave. What do you mean you're all excited you got 54%?

That means 46% of the people sitting in this room, one out of two is not going to make it in four years. Yes, that's true. And only one in three is going to make it at all. Goes back to what I just said, one in three. So I just grabbed her little brochure, and I wrote across it in big old letters, have a freaking plan. Yes, sir. Because if you take the classes that are required to get the degree, and they're all available in the four years because they always are. Because you bothered to look at the schedule and actually made it your job to graduate and graduate on time.

All three Ramsey kids graduate in four years because I said no money after four years. No money. I would agree. You be on your own it is your job to study the little freaking catalog and sign up for the appropriate classes to complete the degree why is this hard and dave you also told your kids and correct me if i'm wrong that they're not going out of state you're not paying for them to go out of state right yeah i had one of them got approved out of state and i said why are you leaving the family why am i paying an extra

fourteen thousand dollars a year for you to go to an another sec school that has exactly the same dadgum everything wow you know because they have a pretty town over there it's they've got big houses over there what the crap you're kidding me fourteen thousand dollars a year for extra for out-of-state tuition just so you march your little butt across the state line what is this there's absolutely no value here in this zero it does not increase the quality of the education does not increase the increase does not increase their income later does not it's just they the little baby when you go down there and nobody had the backbone to say no was that a hard conversation

though because i know your kids probably saying well dad you can afford it that was it a hard i said that's it that's that's how i kind of went down i can afford it you however my darling cannot and so you are going unless because you can't afford it. Well, I'll take out a loan. I said, you're a Ramsey. You think you're going to take out a loan? You may be dead, but you're not taking out a loan. So it's the thing of, here's the thing. I'm being sarcastic and bombastic, but the truth is I maintained enough influence through various levers in the kiddo's life to say, this is a wise choice.

Yes, sir. And I'm paying for it, and we're going to go with the wise choices, and here's here. Well, you're controlling. Dadgum right I'm controlling. It's my money. Yeah. There's a whole new idea. I get to control where my money goes.

Oh, by the way, I love you. I'm smarter than you and older than you. And so it's a really good thing to have some control over you. Yes, sir. Until you grow your brain in. I just wanted the parents to hear that, Dave, because I talk to a lot of parents that- Who are wusses. Yes. And they'll go out of their way just so their kid can go to another state to get the exact

same degree for $30,000 more. Yeah. If you want to do that, you want to spend your money on it, that's fine. I'm not mad at you, but you can't convince me that there's any value added for the extra money you've spent. Because there's not. There's not. The things we justify in the name of the college experience. We're so stupid about education.

Isn't that an irony? This is the Ramsey Show. in the lobby of ramsey solutions on the debt free stage tyler and lindsey are with us hey guys how are you great thank you welcome good to have you guys and where do you guys live cookville tennessee just down the road awesome welcome to nashville and all the way here to do a debt-free scream. How much did you pay off? Yes, $52,100-ish. Very good. And how long did that take? Five months. Good for you guys. Way to go. And your range of income during that time? We started around $100,000 and then we ended around $140,000-ish. Cool cool what do you guys do for a living i'm in uh talent acquisition and i do health coaching at night and i am in finance as a controller ah very good good for you guys what kind of debt was your 52 000 about 20k of car and around 30 student loans. Okay. How long have you all been married? Since September.

Oh, just the other day? Yeah. Oh, wow. Well, congratulations. Which is when all this started. Okay. So you get married, and you obviously said, as soon as we get married, we're going to knock this out.

Tell me the story. How did all that happen? Yeah. So it actually started with me first. I started three years ago, four years ago by myself when I paid off about $60,000 by myself. Good for you. I graduated college and decided I needed to buy four brand new off the showroom vehicles. Wow.

Who lets someone do that? But I decided that's what I needed to do. Got myself into a mess. Found you and your book, read it in like a week, and I was like ready to go. So I took the initiative on myself. I didn't have a boyfriend or husband at the time. And then I just went with it. I started paying off my cars, which I just had the one at the time.

But I started paying off my cars, which I just had the one at the time, but I started paying all that off. And then I finally got debt free by myself. Um, three years ago, uh, Tyler and I met in 2019 and immediately I was already talking about, are you going to pay this off? What do you do? Like all of those things. I like her dave i like her she's really romantic on a date it was um i'm sure i was pretty annoying at first but wasn't that annoying he married you yeah he married me which i remind him of that every day he married me i didn't get the full lectures but it was close i just worked it into conversation that i was debt free and i was saving for a house um all of that kind of thing and then it just kind of went from there yeah um we just started talking about it and we were just open with each other um he had the debt yeah that's

all right it was his car and his loans he still married married you with the debt. But you used to have it. So, yeah, we're all good here. It's all good. And I knew that there was a better way. I just needed him to see the light. And somehow... So, Tyler, how far into her talking about this did you kind of go, you know, I think that might work? I thought she was crazy for a while. Probably about a month or two in i started

making my own budget and into the marriage or into dating into dating okay well i don't even know if we were dating at the time yeah i think we were so into dating okay so about two or two months or so okay he had his budget i had my budget and then we like talked about it so it worked out really well that we were open about that and then we knew that whenever we got engaged which we got engaged here in nashville in uh march of 2020 the weekend before the world shut down wow what an engagement yeah it just worked out perfectly um but we talked about it that our whole engagement we knew that we were going to start a budget together we kind of did a fake budget if you will um and then once we got married we came back from

our honeymoon put our accounts together and game on went after it yeah that came on and five months later you're done just ding ding yeah it just seemed to work out we thought it was going to take about a year and then different things just started happening and lining up and here we are very good so Todd let me ask you this question you meet this amazing young lady and she says hey listen check this out if you want to marry me pretty much you need to be debt free or have the mindset what was the most difficult thing throughout that whole journey starting three years ago and then when y'all got married the last five months? What would you say will be the most difficult for you?

Probably not being able to spend what I want to spend. Having to keep close to the budget and actually having to talk about what we're spending on. Accountability. Ding, ding. So last year I went viral because I told some people, you know, date on a budget. So were y'all dating on a budget? Yeah. Yeah, pretty well.

We each had our own budgets. So I didn't want to do anything that was going to mess mine up. And at that point, he didn't want to do anything that messed his up. So it really worked out. It was a blessing for sure. That's so good. I like y'all. Well, dating on a budget doesn't mean not doing anything.

It just means doing it on purpose. Yeah, but they said I was cheap. But you went viral because you were cheap. Oh, my gosh. Is that what they said? Is that what the viral community said? Yeah, they said I was broke. Well, you're just on, man, Twitter's trolls.

There's nothing on there but trolls anymore. Did y'all have cheap dates or did y'all have fun dates? A little bit of both. A little bit of both. I don't like to go extravagant, so I wouldn't go drop $100 on a meal or something like that. But we've done it since. Yeah, you can afford to now. Now you're out of debt making $140.

Ding, ding. Come on now. All right. So what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is? You both had a journey together, and Lindsay, you had a journey on your own. What's the key to getting out of debt? Yeah. My thing by myself was just staying on the budget.

My thing in a marriage is first, be on the same page. Second, be on a budget. And third, just know what you're going after. You can't hit the goal if you don just know what you're going after. You can't hit the goal if you don't know what it is. Yeah, I would say the teamwork and watch where your money goes. It's really eye-opening to see where your money goes

if you're not on a budget. Especially when you see the eating out budget is like $1,000 in a month. What in the world? Where were we eating? Yeah, where did all this go? Who knew fazoles was that yeah way to go you guys i'm so proud of you so who were your biggest cheerleaders outside the

two of you um we have really good families um i have a couple really good friends that have been trying to get me on this path a long time. And then now that I'm on the path, they are still on my team. So I have a lot of really good friends. That's cool. I think he does too. Very cool. Good for you guys. Well, we've got a copy of The Legacy Journey,

which is definitely the next chapter in your own story. Become extremely wealthy and unbelievably generous. So proud of you. Well done. Also got a copy of The Total Money Makeover, an extra copy that you can give away to someone and help them on their journey. Pay it forward. Get it started for them.

Way to go, you guys. Thank you. Very cool. Very good stuff. Tyler and Lindsey from Cookville, $52,000 paid off in the first five months of their marriage, making $100,000 to $140,000. Count it down. five months of their marriage, making $100 to $140. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream.

Three, two, one. We're debt-free. Yeah. Woo-hoo-hoo. This is how it is done, ladies and gentlemen. Yes, sir. Man, I'm going to put them on my social media. Yeah, I think you need to.

I really am. Because a lot of these people that are griping at you about cheap date or whatever and all that stuff are people that are not eligible to be your spouse because the point is is that there are wonderful intelligent attractive people out there yeah like tyler and lindsey who are have a brain and they're in there we're in the singles world there for a minute and they're out there there's real ones i know there's a bunch of freaks in that world too but there's a bunch of freaks in the married world too yes so i mean you know you're just looking for somebody's not normal if you don't want to have a normal life yeah and uh lindsey found tyler wasn't going to be normal and tyler already figured out lindsey wasn't going to be normal normal sucks i don't want to be normal yes sir who wants to be normal

i don't want to be normal not me no and a Who wants to be normal? I don't want to be normal. Not me. No. And the key thing he said, we didn't spend over $100 on our date. Now they can go do it a lot. $100? Where do you people? I, yeah, yeah. Okay. Wow.

Yep. I've been married too long. I am too old. Yeah. This is the Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Seth is with us in Lincoln, Nebraska.

Hi, Seth. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Thanks for having me, Dave. Our pleasure. How can we help, sir? So, I recently accepted a promotion through work. Decent pay raise, in my opinion. However, I'm trying to decide if we should purchase a house with the move. It's about an hour and a half away from where we live right now,

and I've been making the drive, and they're paying my mileage up until the end of next week. But should I purchase a home? Should I rent a home? I think we're, like, maybe step half as far as getting our finances in line. You have no money. Correct. Well, no, you should not purchase a home. You're in debt. You have no money. Correct. Well, no, you should not purchase a home.

You're in debt. You have no money. Yeah. Go rent, man. I think you should move. Just rent a house up there. Rent. Are you there?

Yeah. You're breaking up. Yep. No, I'm here. Okay. So are you renting now? Yep. We're currently renting a house from my father-in-law. Okay, and so you're going to move to the other town and rent, right?

Yep. I wouldn't be commuting an hour and a half, if that's what you're asking. That's crazy land. Okay. But yeah, you need to move up there and rent, and then you guys need to lean in now and get your debts paid off and get yourself an emergency fund built so you can save a down payment and buy. Okay.

But right now, how much debt? Where we're sitting at now. I'm sorry? Right now, where we're sitting, I have about $56,000 in debt between student loans and credit cards and stuff. Mm-hmm. How much do you owe on the cars? I own my car free and clear. Both of them?

Yeah. So when we got married, I came into the marriage with a lot of debt myself, so we've kept our finances separate. Okay. Sound like you had to guess on that car thing, man. Do you owe anything on the other car? I don't owe anything on the vehicle there's a loan on the wife's truck so so yeah let me let me help you with this you're married all of her debt is your debt all of your debt is her debt welcome to marriage

okay so yeah we have we have a loan on one of the vehicles. There we go. Okay. And so we have student loan debt and we have a truck debt. And how much is owed on her truck? Her truck's just below $7,000. Okay. So did I do this correctly? So you owe a little over $60,000 to become debt-free as a family. Is that right?

Yes, sir. Good. And what is your household income now with your new promotion? With my new promotion, I don't like counting in bonuses. So it's going to put us where we were last year without bonuses, which would be $72,000. Okay. But I count bonuses because they go into your checking account to use to get out of debt. So what do you anticipate your bonus to be reasonably?

Reasonably for if I do what I'm supposed to do, which I plan on, obviously, about another $10,000. So we'd be sitting about $82,000, $83,000. Great. Okay. And so what we're going to do is we're going to sit down together and lay out a budget together, and we're going to set a goal together of having a debt-free household, and then we're going to build an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses. Those two things should take you about 24 months. You should be debt-free in 18 and another six to build your other, but you're on beans and rice during that time. You're not going on vacation,

and you're not going out to eat, and you're on a written, detailed plan. And when you move, Seth, one of the things to do on beans and rice is to make sure that your apartment, I think in that area, you should be right around 20%. Do not go anything higher than 25, but I want you to look at in between 15% and 20% of your take-home pay. Cheapest possible rent, because the cheaper your rent, the faster you're out of debt, the faster you can save up and buy. Yes, sir. Okay. All right.

Now, we have a membership called Ramsey Plus. It puts you through our class called Financial Peace University. It signs you up for the Every Dollar Premium budgeting app, which is the world's best budgeting app. And if the two of you will work together and go through that whole thing, I will pay for it for a year for you to go through it. But you have to promise me both of you are going to work on this, and you're going to go get yourself straightened out. Because you have an opportunity here to have a great life in front of you if you stop being normal. Yes, sir. Will both of you do it if i give it to you yes sir okay all right brother you hold on i'll have kelly pick up and we'll get you signed up as our gift so guys the um just a reminder those of you been listening a long time

know this already but um all of the data that we have on people who build wealth, it almost never occurs in a household where the spouses are not working together. One of you dragging the other one along simply is not conducive to building wealth. As a matter of fact, it's quite the opposite. It's going to continue to cause problems in your relationship. It's going to continue to cause marriage issues. It's going to continue to cause lowered productivity at work because you're screwed up and fighting all the time.

It's going to continue everything until you can work together to a common goal that you both agree on, and that's whether you've been married 20 minutes, 20 years, or 50 years. And we both, you know, we have combined goals, we have combined assets, combined incomes. We change our pronouns, our, we, us, not hers and mine. It changes everything. The probability of success goes way up.

One plus one does not equal two. It equals 42. You get the synergy of two people playing off each other, pushing each other, holding each other accountable, cheering for each other, lifting the other one up when they're hurting. All the stuff that you do in marriage when you're working in sync and in tandem. I love it. I always think two is better than one, in my opinion. Yeah. Yeah, it really does create that.

Nellie is with us in Austin, Texas. Hi, Nellie. Welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave and Anthony. Today's a good day. It is. How can we help? Me and my husband became debt free in February of this of this year congrats and we have a six-month

emergency fund good and at the end of this month we're going to go to puerto rico great and it's fully funded we already paid for it love it and the thing is is i'd like to upgrade my samsung phone to the newest phone which which is about $1,200. And what's your household income? $115. And what's the Puerto Rico trip cost? We actually got a really good deal with the VRBO with a few other couples who actually are paying around $1,000 for the trip. Oh, less than the phone.

Okay. Oh, I'm sorry? I said less than the phone okay oh i'm sorry i said less than the phone oh that's true i was i was actually thinking you were going to tell me three or four thousand dollars okay but you're doing you're doing fine it's all good we got a really good deal okay good but we haven't paid for the experience yet. I got you. So what's your question? Well, my husband doesn't spend that much on his phone, but it has the best camera. And I just would like to purchase it for the trip. And I just wanted your permission. You make $115,000.

You're debt-free. $1,200 isn't anything. It's not a need, though. It's just a want. But if you want it you can afford it. You want it. I do want it. Now that you can't wait until your contract is upgradable and you can get a discount on it? Actually

we can trade in our phones. There's $350 to trade in. Okay. So it goes down to what? So about $850. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I can't tell you what to do because I'm not your husband, but I say go get the

phone. Yeah, me too. Me too. But basically- If you call me up and you're in baby step two and you want to go get a $1,200 phone, it's just a luxury item. Yeah. But you make $115,000 a year.

You're debt free. You've paid a price to win. You saved up and paid cash for your trip. You don't have to present it as a need, though. It's not really a need. And you don't even have to talk about the camera. It's just it's a $1,200 thing. We got the money, and I want it.

And that's okay. There's nothing wrong with that. You earned the right to do that. Both of you did. Absolutely. I get one every other year, Dave. I think husband's still in tightwad mode. He's still stuck back in baby step three.

He's scared to go back to baby step two. Yeah, that's what it is. That's what it is. And you can't do this every day. But I think if you can make this one purchase, I don't see a problem with that at all. Not at all. Hey, it's Kelly, associate producer for The Ramsey Show. This episode is over, but if you heard about an event, product, or service

and didn't have a chance to write it down, don't worry. We list everything you've heard about during this episode in the podcast show notes section or head to theramseyshow.com. Thanks for listening.