The Ramsey Show - App - I’m in Way Over My Head & Have No Idea What To Do (Hour 2)

Episode Date: December 13, 2022

Dave Ramsey & Dr. John Delony discuss: Getting on track paying off debt, Getting on the same page with your spouse, What to do when your rent is too high, Paying off the mortgage with money from an IRA. Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6 Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

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Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, and host of The Dr. John Deloney Show, is my co-host today as we answer your questions about your life and your money. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Rommel is with us in Long Island, New York. Hi, Rommel. How are you? Hey, Dave and John. How are you?

Better than we deserve, sir. How can we help? Nice. All right. I'm a long-time listener, first-time caller. I mean, I'm just so far into debt and I'm, I'm scared and I don't know which way to go with it. And it's like, uh, you know, every time I get paid, it's like I'm on a roller coaster. I just go around and round and nothing's, nothing's getting done. And I'm just way over my head with everything. How much do you owe, man?

Between credit cards and my stupid car loan, I'm at $45,000. Okay. What do you make? I make about $33 an hour. So I bring, before taxes, about $1,300. But I bring home after taxes around $970 a week. Are you married? Yes, I am married, four kids.

My wife's a stay-at-home mom. Okay, cool. What do you owe on the car in particular? I owe $11,800 on it. Okay. So the credit cards are, you didn't like take a big trip or celebrate something. This is just life has happened with this chaos, and it ended up on the credit card because you couldn't pay it all. Exactly.

Yeah, that's normal. Multiple credit cards. Yeah, that's normal. That fits with what you were describing a while ago, the sense of being a rat in a wheel. So here's the thing. If you and your wife were to sit down today in front of John and I, and we were just sitting there at our kitchen table and all four of us talking,

would we see two people that are sick and tired of being sick and tired? Are you ready to go through the pain of change because the pain of the current situation sucks enough i'm absolutely absolutely on board where you know is she you know oh yeah 100 okay because that's a big deal i mean if you can't because some people like the pain of the chaos more than they like the pain of change. Because changing is a pain in the butt. Yeah. Because you're getting ready to do some uncomfortable stuff to break this cycle.

And you've got to be ready for that. Yes. What do you do for a living? I work on a school bus. I'm a mechanic. Okay. How old are your kids? My oldest is 16. My son is 10. My daughter is 8. um my oldest is 16 my son is 10 my daughter's eight and my youngest

is uh five okay so here's the thing um no more eating out no and i think that's a big big issue oh it is sure it is your wife is a stay-at-home mom she now by god cooks yep all right that's her job she's a home economist that's her part in this uh and and when you get home uh put the kids to bed and turn off the television we're going to start a budget tonight and the two of you are going to start telling your money what to do instead of wondering where it went. Okay. Because where you're sitting emotionally is a hopeless, hopeless feeling. It feels stuck and out of control.

Yep. And I had it when last week I told my wife, I'm worth more dead than alive. Because I did take one thing from your lesson. We both got uh term life insurance good and what lesson is that you went through financial peace university no no i just you know from here from the from the talk show that oh i see talk about current term okay that's well i know i gotta tell you that that was a a stupid thing to say because it's not true

you're not worth more dead than alive you might be worth more money at this instant but not more money over the scope of your life you're earning power through the scope of your life much exceeds that and the uh economic and actual arithmetic value to your children not to mention the actual fatherhood to your children but the actual math of what it does to your family far exceeds that life insurance. So you're very valuable to your family, sir. Thank you. I needed that. Yeah.

And that's not just valuable in a spiritual sense, which is true, but I'm talking about the arithmetic. You are actually worth more life mathematically, okay? So we know the other part's true. You're worth more as a dad. You're worth more life mathematically okay so and we know the other part's true you're worth more as a dad you're worth more as a person you're a good guy i've enjoyed talking to you for a few minutes here so hey and you've you've got it whenever we get wound up in to like it feels like we're drowning right and you've got this debt and it's hanging over you there's also the chaos of you work for on school buses yes yeah you're you have been caught in that mess of a system

in new york for the last 36 48 months and it's been a disaster yes and you have a five-year-old all the way up to a 16 your house is a zoo right now yep right and so everything feels like it's coming apart at the seams i need you to hear me say this it's not when you have a 16 year old and a 10 year old and a five year old and what was the other one eight eight you're just gonna have underwear in weird places in your house and you're just gonna have pee in weird like i don't know how this works geometrically how where peak how it got this way in the bathroom some of that just is and some of that is um not going to war not declaring civil war on romeo okay okay you're a dad who's in a wild it's a winter and there's no reason to go outside and scream because it's snowing it's winter so put a coat on man you know what i mean yeah and so

you're in a wild season what can you control right now you can control this debt and let's get on this plan you can control your marriage you can control how much you and your wife get together on the same page and that's the beauty of get on this plan together yeah we're gonna put you in the financial peace university and pay for it okay if i pay for it and give it if i pay for it and give it to you will you promise me you will do every single thing we say to do in the lesson yes sir and your wife and my wife 100 okay hey let me let me one up and you promise if you ever ever have a thought again i think my family would be better if i wasn't here if you ever, ever have a thought again, I think my family would be better if I wasn't here. If you ever have that thought again, do you promise you will reach out to another man that you trust and say, I'm not doing all right?

Yes, I will. You promise? Yes, promise. Got it. Okay. You're a great guy, and you're going to be fine. And in 30 years, I've walked with hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people just like you. You're going to be 100% debt free. You're going to be on a

budget. You're going to have an emergency fund of 15 or $20,000. And you and your wife are going to have the best communication that you've ever had in the history of your marriage so far. If you will follow the stuff we teach you to do, I'll show you exactly how to do every bit of that. It's not costing you a dime. So it works, dude. It works. It changes everything when you lean into this. So you hold on.

We'll pick up and get you signed up. This is The Ramsey Show. Teksting av Nicolai Winther Dr. John Deloney Ramsey personality is my co-hostess today Proverbs says hope deferred makes the heart sick. This time of year, when things aren't going right, it's like exaggerated. And if they're not going right with your money and you're trying to buy presents, or you feel the pressure to buy presents, or you feel the pressure to travel, and you don't have the money, it's exaggerated. It doubles and triples and 10x is the stress hope can start to slip away

but um when desire comes it is the tree of life now what that means is is that when you can pull back most of the time when you lose your hope on things and john you can probably give me some actual data on this but my perception of working with someone that's lost their hope it's because they've got whatever's going on pushed right up in their face and the smallest thing seems awfully big when you put it right in front of your eyes if you can push it out and get it in perspective of life it all is small stuff just as you were talking i was thinking of there's some classic studies old psychological studies about learned helplessness that when i when i keep striking

out a little thing like i just quit and then something comes back i i i don't even bother when a new opportunity shows up. I just, this is the way I am. This is the way I do it. I've screwed up. I've tried this plan. I tried that plan. I whatever.

I'm just whatever. Yeah. I'm not good at math. I'm not good at math. So I can't do it. Yeah. I tried that Bitcoin thing. It blew.

I got a closet full of Beanie Babies. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I just, this is the way it is. I'm not good at this.

Yeah. This money thing. I can't do it. I just can't do it. Yeah. But all that is, is you just had the crap the way it is. I'm not good at this. Yeah. This money thing, I can't do it. I just can't do it. Yeah, but all that is is you just had the crap beat out of you. Right. And you just don't have anything left. There's no juice left.

But in that, what has happened is that you've believed a lie because you took small things and put them really up close in your face, and they look like big things. I mean, I can take my grandson's little tiny dinosaur and put it right in my face, and it looks like a real dinosaur. It looks like a T-Rex is coming to eat me, you know, and that's the way these things, but when you put it back in its perspective, you go, oh, it's a little toy, look at that, and it changes everything. That's the way this stuff is, and, you know, like when our kids are upset about something that we realize is nothing, it's kind of cute.

You know, your little kid, your little five-year-old is really upset about a broken toy and like their life is coming to an end. And you go, wait a minute, we could just put the wheel back on it. It's okay. Oh, you know, it saved their life because they were about to die right there. And so it's kind of cute. And I think God sometimes looks at us when we're when we think that, oh, God, we're in drama queen mode. He's just like, oh, we just put the wheel back on. It's just if it's just it's OK.

You're fine. You're gonna be OK. Hey, our question that it comes from blinds dot com. One hundred percent satisfaction guarantee. That means even if you mismeasure or you pick the wrong color, they'll remake your blinds for free. Free samples, free shipping, and with the new promos they run every month, you'll save even more. Use the promo code RAMSEY to get the best possible deal.

All right, today's question comes from Thomas in Maine. Thomas writes, I've done all that I can. Uh-oh, I love it when a sentence starts, when something starts that way. That's pretty definite. Yep. I've explained the baby steps. I need to stop interrupting.

I can already tell you where this is headed. I've done all that I can. I've explained the baby steps without rudeness or anger. I've never tried to control my wife. I helped her pay off nine credit cards. Everything was fine and we were on fire until about a month ago. Then my wife started using credit cards we already paid off and just got another one in the mail yesterday. I was told my money is none of Dave Ramsey's business and none of yours.

So she's decided it's Christmas time and she's going to do what she wants. My wife has a master's degree in communications yet refuses to take a job that uses her degree. So instead of her making three to $6,000 a month, she makes $2,000 a month at a job with no benefits. My wife also has student loans that are now officially none of my business. I'm very confused, very hurt, and angry. My instinct is to give up and end the marriage. This isn't the first money argument we've had, and it won't be our last. I don't see where we are going financially or in our marriage.

Am I wrong for being angry about this situation? Whew. Honestly, if Thomas was here and he just said this to me I would stop I would take out my headphones my earpieces and I would give Thomas a hug like it's just hard it's just hard

it sounds like he is at resentment and it's a hard place to be in your relationship. It's a hard place to come back from. Dave, I don't know a lot, but I can guarantee you this isn't about money. This is about something else going on in their relationship. Oh, this is about control.

Yeah, and power, and explaining. It's a power struggle. Yeah. And it has been ongoing for a long time. Right. And so he weaponized me oh yeah if you weaponize dave ramsey in your house i'll just tell you it doesn't work okay if you go around say dave ramsey said nobody gives a crap what dave ramsey says they truly don't uh what they care about is is

information that'll change their life that's what they care about and they don't care that it came from me it adds no it's it does not you know if you turn my name into a cuss word or ramsey in general into a cuss word in your house you did not accomplish a thing and that so this is about control if this marriage is gone unless you guys get some in-depth counseling because you are both uh have crossed the line of the the four horsemen of the apocalypse as les par Parrott talks about in his marriage seminars. One of them is contempt. And contempt, when you reach a relationship with anyone where you look at them with an eye roll, that means you are contemptuous of them.

It means you have completely lost any respect for them. Your need to serve them and love them is just gone this is all about i have to tolerate your presence and you stink you need a bath it starts to feel that way that's the way this sounds doesn't it absolutely and it's it's coming both directions right oh yeah yeah wife is doing this back yeah she's completely had it with him and dude you can say i've done all that i can explain this with baby steps or without rudeness or anger and then the last line in the email is am i wrong to be angry there's a little inconsistency here you've been pissed about this stuff a long time and um and you've you know she has a degree in communications and refuses to use it that's true but not about her career she sucks at communication but also people will they will

cash out their dreams they will cash out their professional ambitions to prove a point right they will drive themselves into debt you're not gonna tell me what to do yeah you said this is about power and this is about i'm tired of you talking down to me this is about i'm tired of you telling me how i have to do whatever this is a marriage that is hanging on by a yeah there's there's been a lot of uh you should you need to's in this house both of your gunnas both of you instead of uh hey what if we looked out there and saw a really bright place in the future and we walked towards it together that's a much more persuasive methodology than you know if you'd get a good job instead of working at half of what you're worth we could clean this mess up you lazy woman well if you would just if you'd quit talking down to me explain it's my money dave rams you can kiss

my butt i mean and we're just gonna do this in circles and in circles and in circles and was it uh uh what's our buddy that did the love and respect uh he calls it the crazy cycle oh yeah yeah it builds on itself and it just spins a tornado that's right it spins out it's uh what is it uh elder yeah gosh i'll have to go look it up love and respect is a great book it's a great marriage book so thomas this is this is when i talk to you bad yes and you've got to stop to fight this is when you walk in and you lay down your sword you lay lay down your shield and say, I'm not fighting you anymore. Because this isn't about a fight.

This is about getting on the same page. Yeah. If we can't get on the same page, this is over. This is a civil war, and now we're just shooting grenades at each other, and we're going to end up killing our family and our friends and our neighbors. It's disgusting. In the civil war in the United States, family shot family. That's right.

And that's what we're doing. Friend shot friend. That's what you're doing. Stop. Don't fire're doing. Stop. Stop. Don't fire another weapon. Just go sit down on her side of the couch and say, let's do this together. You're not wrong to be angry, but it's not working for you.

Yeah. Stop explaining. You guys are going to get some help. You're in high role. You're in contempt. It is one of the four things that ends relationships permanently. Contempt is very hard to come back from. This is The Ramsey Show.

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We're glad you're here. It's a free call at 888-825-5225. Paul's in New York City. Hi, Paul. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave and John. Thanks for taking my call. I just finished the total money makeover,

and my rent's over 50% of my take-home pay. I'm a single dad that just went through a really long and expensive divorce, and I'm just trying to figure out how to get my situation under control. Wow. Sorry. That's horrible. Well, I mean, can we agree that 50% of your take-home pay is not mathematically sustainable? Yes, absolutely. And the hard part is I have a two-bedroom apartment uh so that my son has space and um my rent is relatively affordable for brooklyn

unfortunately yeah i don't doubt that i mean you live in one of the most expensive real estate markets in the world yeah so that i don't doubt that but obviously you don't make enough money to live there yeah so one of the two things if you want to have a sustainable life and not end up with you know substantial financial damage to your life or you struggle and have stress, you're going to either increase your income in the next months or even year dramatically, or you're going to move. Well, the situation becomes even more complicated when, so I have split custody of my son. And in our agreement, his school is already set to stay in Brooklyn for the next four years. And then we would have to work out where high school is, which would most likely stay in the city. And I'm already, I live in the neighborhood where his school is,

and I already commute an hour into my job in Manhattan. Was your divorce amicable? Did y'all sit down and shake hands, or was it a mess? It was a mess. Okay. What do you do for a living? I'm a photographer. You're going to change careers, or you're going to move yeah yeah because dude i mean regardless of the constraints that you and your ex-wife and the courts have put on you none of you get a pass on math because we decided these things math is still going to kick

your butt yeah and i i would love to just wave a wand and make this all okay i don't but i don't my magic wand's low on batteries so something is going to change and you're either going to change it or it's going to be changed for you because this is not sustainable bad things are going to happen and force you out of this situation and um you're just not able to be there it's that simple um or good things are going to happen and you find different housing a different housing arrangement you find uh and more income to be able to sustain this but it's just uh it's not like a dave rule and it's not like well here's the best thing you can do this is you know you simply cannot survive doing this long term i mean you can survive for a few months or maybe a year but you've got to have a plan to develop a life that works.

And this doesn't work. This is going to lead to homelessness. And that's at the end of this line. This just becomes a mess because you've created an unsustainable, you created a very anxious life. I'm just thinking about this little boy that comes home and half of his life comes

home to a exhausted, stressed out dad. Who's trying to figure out how to give his kid this magical life. Like you mentioned, that's got, that's that math doesn't apply to that can barely afford rent. They can barely afford groceries. And that's a kid constantly coming home to a tense home, to an anxious home. And that means we've got to change that whole thing. Because this whole thing is going to end in ash, but you're also going to end with a frazzled, exhausted kid who feels responsible for making sure dad's okay, and that's not your kid's job.

And so, man, I think now you're going to start looking to take pictures in the evenings and on weekends and at big wedding events, and you're going to have to find yourself a job where you're going to make way more money a job where you're going to make way more money. Yeah. Something's going to give. So I always suggest if we're going to have pain,

let's choose the pain instead of letting it choose us every time. And there's 100% of the situation that's going to have pain. So choose the pain. The pain is a career change, an adjustment to what type of photography you do or when you do it. The pain is moving. The pain is a different housing situation within the constraints of the neighborhood, which is probably very difficult. But there's something is going to give. You can't just sit here and go in the name of all that is noble and good for my child i'm going to pretend

like this isn't happening because it's going to happen to you you cannot sustain this situation um it's just that simple and it's a it's not me that's just 30 years of coaching people and counseling people that are in trouble and dude you're trouble looking for a place to happen right now. And we talked about this in an earlier segment. Let's don't forget you have the opportunity to teach your son over a one- to two- to three- to four-year period what it looks like to change midstream, to get that grit and resilience we were talking about in that earlier segment, to develop new skills and new strength and see his dad go back to school and see his dad get qualified for new jobs see his dad do all these really hard gritty things for his son and for the sake of his family tree moving

forward it's not going to be pleasant at the time but man you're giving your kid a gift yeah you've got to get this situation healthy because i will give you unless your ex-wife is an anomaly she's also facing the same thing you're facing unless she's like you know uh a heart surgeon or something and and you know uh in in manhattan you know making 500k she's probably also facing the same thing so if she could be an anomaly, but if she's trying to do, it could be you all had two average to below average incomes when combined made it work in the city, but split up, both of you are screwed.

That may be where you are. And so your kid may be going from one stressed house to another stressed house to John's point. Likely is. I don't know. I don't know your ex's situation. And I'm not going to get into that. That doesn't matter.

But I'm just saying there's a high probability that's going on too. So she doesn't get a pass on math just because she's pissed at you either. Math catches up with you. It works in New York. It works in California. It works in Abilene. It works in Tulsa. And it works in new york it works in california it works in abilene works in tulsa and it works in nashville and it always works the same because it's math and you just cannot run from it uh and it's not a dave thing it's not a ramsey thing it's not a

hateful thing it's not a racist thing it's just math it when we live in a in a culture that says follow your passion follow your dreams well my dream is to be a photographer in manhattan like i'm going to go to the epicenter of all that is fashion and all that is high society and i'm going to be a photographer i'm going to capture and be an artist and then all of a sudden you get divorced and rent doesn't care what your dreams are. Rent just cares what the dollar amount is. Yeah. I'm sorry.

I'm heartbroken for you, man. I'm sorry you're facing this. It's hard. And I'm not belittling how painful this is. I'm just begging you to choose your pain because of all the other pain you've been through. And in the name of creating a fantasy land for your child sometimes people don't choose the pain and it will choose you if you don't choose it so pick your poison what's it going to be something's going to move and i strongly suggest to you my friend that you do the moving instead of the moving being done on you because not acting is going to bring this to your doorstep.

This is The Ramsey Show. Cynhyrchu'r ffwrdd o'r ffwrdd. Cynhyrchu'r ffwrdd o'r ffwrdd. Cynhyrchu'r ffwrdd o'r ffwrdd. Cynhyrchu'r ffwrdd o'r ffwrdd. Cynhyrchu'r ffwrdd o'r ffwrdd. Cynhyrchu'r ffwrdd o'r ffwrdd. Cynhyrchu'r ffwrdd o'r ffwrdd. Cynhyrchu'r ffwrdd o'r ffwrdd. Cynhyrchu'r ffwrdd o'r ffwrdd. Cynhyrchu'r ffwrdd o'r ffwrdd.

Cynhyrchu'r ffwrdd o'r ffwrdd. Cynhyrchu'r ffwrdd o'r ffwrdd. Cynhyrchu'r ffwrdd o'r ffwrdd. Cynhyrchu'r ffwrdd o'r ffwrdd. The Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Steve is in Burlington, Vermont. Hi, Steve. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hello, Dave and John.

It's a privilege to speak with you this afternoon. You too. What's up? Well, after listening this afternoon, I feel very, very lucky. I commiserate. I feel bad for those folks that are having a tough time, but there is hope. And I just got to validate you on the seven baby steps that's helped me over the years, even though I've made some mistakes along the road of life. But today I want to ask about RMDs and whether it's smart to take more than the required minimum distribution

from my IRA to help pay down the rest of my mortgage. Cool. Good for you. Well done, Steve. So what is your total nest egg? How much money do you have in investments in total? I have about $450,000 in an IRA. I have $40,000, no, $43,000 today in my savings account, which I consider my emergency fund. I also have a life insurance, two life insurance policies that I could cash in, and I'm thinking of doing that, would give me roughly another $16,000 to $17,000. And what do you owe on your mortgage? $153,000. Okay. Well, it's kind of on the bubble. If you cashed out enough of your investments to pay off the mortgage, you're only going to have, what, $300,000 or so left over, right? Right.

I wouldn't want to do all of that, but here's what I was thinking. My income puts me in the 12 tax bracket if i take uh withdrawals from the ira and keep it below the the next step in the tax wouldn't that make sense yeah it does it does, and begin to whittle away at it. Do you have any income? How old are you? I am 73 years old. I am a retired firefighter.

I have a pension that brings me about $43,000 a year. My wife is a retired flight attendant, and she brings in about $32,000, $34,000 a a year so you're in good shape without this money without the money in the ira yes i mean you don't need that you don't need an income off of it to live no no so yeah i'm gonna i'm gonna probably pull down pretty aggressively on this thing and let's get this move towards getting this mortgage paid off now that i have this pension information knowing you've got that income coming yeah i just i i i'm with you i i can't if you told me you had 800 000 i'd pay off your house in full today you know because it would it would still leave a sizable nest egg and i just you're getting it i'm kind of getting in that nervous range i mean 300k left over is nothing to sneeze at you've done a wonderful job way to go sir but um i just don't

want to get things down that low it starts to bother me uh so yeah let's uh let's move towards getting the house paid off out of your income and out of your rmds and your required minimum distribution for those of you out there listening, at 72.5, you're required to begin to draw down on traditional 401ks and IRAs because the government wants their tax money, and so they're not going to let you let it lay there and grow tax-deferred anymore. They're going to make you take a minimum out according to a formula called the RMD, the required minimum distribution. So he's got to do that plus a little, plus a little more right up next to, or maybe even up a whole another tax bracket, still not going to be much in taxes. And just go ahead and push that mortgage out of the

way as quickly as you can. I bet you can do it in two or three years without tearing into this nest egg. And that's where I want you to head towards so good question man i love that and dave let me ask you this it feels like being 75 let's say fast forward to i'm 75 years old would i prefer to have a quote-unquote safe nest egg or zero liability because i always feel like i don't want to have any payments yeah that feels like my best move well i don't want to have any payments yeah that feels like my best move well i do want you to have no payments for sure um the thing is if we can ease into this and knock it on out in a fairly reasonable period of time and preserve the nest egg because once you

pull that out of that 401k you can't put it back right so you got to build it over here on the side and you don't have the tax protections of being in that 401k so i i would slow pedal this because at any moment that you wanted to you cash it out and pay it off right in one day but with and with the with two pensions coming in if you have no payments and one of you suddenly has to go to an assisted living you have to get a nurse and you can cash flow that making 75 000 a year with no payment again you could just write a check that day yeah if something happened if something changes because you can just okay you can you can you can't undo the decision to pull it out but you can make the decision to pull it out

at any point so that's a much more measured approach so you're saying i'm going to lean into it over the next three years if something else intersects this situation like a health thing or something then then you know we may want to reach over and just knock it out gotcha but we can always do that it's always there there you go so you can't undo it yeah okay and and that's that's true uniquely in this age in his age that's not true of you 45 year olds you need to go freak and pay your house okay that's that's a different thing so don't take you know permission you know if you're sitting on a pile of money that's not in your retirement account you can

pay off your house today and you're 45 shut up and do it that's a different scenario because you've got time to build your nest egg but uh at 72 uh you know we we want to treasure that and protect that egg as much as we can. Jeff is in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. Hi, Jeff. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Lancaster. Hi, thank you. Wow, thank you so much for taking my call.

It's an honor to be talking to you guys. I think based on your comments just there, I have an idea of what you're going to say, but I have a similar situation to the last caller here. We had a fantastic year as a business. My wife and I own a small business here in Lancaster. And we're on baby step six. And we have about, in a non-retirement savings account we have about 575 000 in there our mortgage on our house is 374 and we were planning on paying off our house here relatively soon we just had a baby a couple weeks ago congratulations merry christmas yes um but we didn't do very good tax planning on how profitable we were so we're looking at a two hundred thousand dollar tax bill um and then the estimates that were that we have now talked about with our accountant for the next couple years so i guess the question is so you don't have 575 you have 375

right so we have yeah we have to pay that tax obligation yep um and now if you don't if you don't pay it soon it's going to get a penalty yeah right and you've under you've underpaid your quarterlies yeah yeah so i guess the question is do we use the rest of that savings account to pay off our house or should we save it okay where'd the 575 come from? You had an incredible year, you said. Profitable, right? We did, yes. An incredibly profitable year. Why would you not make that next year?

We're planning on making that next year as well. Good. Yeah. Also, just the tax portion of it, we have to plan for better. Yeah, but I mean, if you can make an extra $600,000 and the government takes their pound of flesh that's part of the equation you know because i mean you're evil you must be punished this is our policies today so yeah my favorite was uh yeah we we just we kind of missed on taxes how bad 275 000 Just a bit outside. Yeah.

So here's the thing. You were going to do what else with the money? What else would you do with it? I mean, we had planned on expanding our business, opening another store in a different city close by. I would do that next year with next year's money after you have a paid-for house. Okay. And do that with cash that's left over after taxes.

I like making sure this business is not just a flash in the pan. It can do two years in a row before I start expanding. I love that idea. Yeah. Yeah. Well, he's obviously got something that's working beautifully. Yeah. Proud of you.

I do want you to expand. I want you to expand with cash only, not with debt. And while you're sitting in a paid for house, you make different decisions at your business. Good question, sir. Merry Christmas.mas congratulations this is the ramsey show dave here you can find all of our shows with the ramsey network app on your smartphone it's the only place to listen to the entire back catalog of episodes download the Ramsey Network app in your favorite app store today.