The Ramsey Show - App - I’m Lost On What Good Behavior With Money Looks Like (Hour 3)

Episode Date: July 5, 2024

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Jenna Starr, oh, George Camel, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. He's also the co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour and the host of the George Camel Show on YouTube, which is exploding, by the way, one of our more popular Ramsey Network launches in the last year. Jenna is with us.

Jenna is in Seattle, Washington. Hi, Jenna. Welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hi. Oh, my gosh. I'm so excited to talk to you guys. You too. What's up?

So I have a situation that feels complicated to me, but likely not to you guys, which is why I'm calling. I am the sole provider for my family and I'm self-employed as a therapist, a mental health therapist in private practice. And I make good money, over $200,000 a year. And yeah, over 10 years, it's been amazing. But I'm paid pretty irregularly, mostly by insurance companies. And I usually know by like Sunday evenings kind of what my deposits are going to look like. But they tend to be slightly different each week. And then I also get kind of random payments, like, you know, copayments from patients or just kind of paper checks.

It's just, I'm not, I don't have like, it's sort of predictable, but like also not predictable. How long have you been doing this? How long have I been doing this? Over 10 years, actually. So over the course of a year, it's very predictable. Over the course of six months, it's fairly predictable. Over the course of one week, it's fairly predictable. Over the course of one week, it's not. Correct.

Okay. So give us some rough estimate here. What's your question? So we're struggling to budget as far as the kind of grocery shopping weekly versus monthly, like just kind of really trying to understand our money better. We've kind of banked on like we just make good money, and so money just sort of disappears. And I'm trying to do better.

My husband and I are trying to do better. My one caveat question I want to throw him under the bus is he also refuses to drop the coffee stand and wants to keep it in the budget. And I want to nix it from the budget. So I want you guys to give me some. You mean buying a cup of coffee at a coffee stand? Correct. This is not your problem.

No, it's not my problem. You need to lose that battle and win the war. He needs a budget line item for his coffee. He gets his coffee and we get a budget together that we both work on that accomplishes our overall goals. Coffee is not keeping you from doing that. I agree. All right, that one's under the bus. you from doing that. I agree. All right. That one's under the bus.

You lose. He wins. Next. All right, George, how do we do an irregular income? So the simplest way to look at this is look at what a low month would be for you guys. We know it's not going to be zero, right? Correct. So what would be a low month?

A low month would be $12,000. Okay. So we start there. We'll input that in the budget. And when more money comes in, we'll just add that income into the budget on the income side. Got me? Okay. Yes. Then on the expense side, we're going to do it a little differently because it's a regular. We're going to make a prioritized spending plan. So let's have our four walls. We got to cover the bills, the rent, the mortgage, all of that stuff. Food. Food on the table. You should have a set food budget that is fixed,

that easily fits within $12,000, and it should not have to change based on the irregularity of the income. Okay. Other things will change based on the irregularity, but not food. Okay. Because it's first. Now, are you at risk of running out of money, even on that bad month of $12,000,

or are you just trying to go, hey, we should be saving more with all of our expenses? Well, no, we're not at risk of running out of money. I just don't feel like we're throwing enough at our snowballs. We have... Yeah, perfect, perfect. Yeah, we're not at risk of running out of money as far as our needs go. I just feel like after that that it sort of just disappears gotcha but it's not disappearing into the coffee stand there's other places other money leaks well

it's what she's saying i think and i don't put words in your mouth this is disappearing into the disorganization and the chaos and i want to get a handle on this so i can feel like i'm doing a good job correct like it's like one week i'll, I'll pay the Comcast bill. And then the next week I'll pay, you know, a different bill. And I just don't feel like I'm organized enough. Um, and so I feel like, you know, I want to have a better understanding. And I was thinking similarly, what you were saying, if I just created an idea of budget and then whatever kind of comes extra, I could even just throw out our snowball if you can live on the 12 000 without touching it and you get to everything you need to do

you could run a budget on 12 000 and every extra dollar above that goes to your debt snowball that's an easy fix okay if you need 13 000 to,000 is your low, then you've got to add $1,000 to those last few things before you start the debt snowball. That's what George is saying. Yeah, so including our business expenses, we need about $9,000 to live, $9,000 to $10,000 to live. Okay. Your business needs to be running separately. Yeah, the business is running separately. Okay.

So our household. No, no, no. Stop, stop, stop. You don business is running separately. Okay. So our household. No, no, no. Stop, stop, stop. You don't have it included. Okay. It's not running separately if it's included. Hello. So here's the thing.

We run a business budget, and then when we bring money home from our net profits after paying the business expenses, then we work with that. So your business expenses run what? My business expenses monthly is only $2,300 a month. Okay. All right. So you actually have a low of $9,700. Yes. Because you're not bringing home that $2,300.

Correct. Yes. Because you're not bringing home that 2,300. Correct. Okay. So, you know, so, so that based on what we're doing, I need to have, you need to have that separated out and keep it set completely separate, run a separate set of books, separate checking accounts, separate everything for the business. We actually give ourselves a weekly paycheck. We give ourselves. Yeah, but that doesn't matter. You got to, you matter. And then you need to cash out the rest of the profits beyond your weekly paycheck and beyond your expenses out of the business account over into the personal account. But the same principle will still work because the same math applies. I just split it apart. So you're still okay.

$9,700 will still do it if $2,300 stayed at the office. You can still do it on $9,700, and everything else will go to the debt snowball and then some so in the 9700 some of it's going to the debt snowball but that's just how much more we put on the debt snowball and every every dollar premium will cause you to be able to do that we've got a thing in there called paycheck planning uh that works really well for the irregular income and you and your husband can sit down together and lay the whole thing out on the app uh or on the desktop whichever you choose to do with EveryDollar, and it'll lay all out. And we'll give you three months free and get you started on the EveryDollar premium, okay?

Awesome. Cool. Thank you, guys. All right. Hang on. We'll have the team pick up and give you three months for EveryDollar premium, because that'll do it perfectly. Oh, yeah.

And it'll help him see where's all this money going? What did we decide we were going to do this month? Yeah. And then the only choice you're making is $8 or whatever the flipping coffee is. It's ridiculous. But, I mean, $8 is not going to get you out of debt. But you are going to start looking at everything, including the coffee. You'll see how much money you're wasting. How much more can we throw?

How far are we going to cut our lifestyle versus the debt we have versus the $200,000, well, not really, $175,000 income that we have? This is The Ramsey Show. George Campbell, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. April is in Idaho Falls, Idaho. Hi, April. How are you? Hi, Dave.

Hey, what's up? So we actually live in beautiful Salmon, Idaho. It's a remote vacation destination. My husband and I have been remotely working for the last two years. We have $1.4 million in cash. We owe $360,000 on our house. My question is, we're officially debt-free if we pay that house off. Our jobs are kind of going away.

So we can move back to a city, get stable jobs. I run a business in Boise, Idaho, and that business kind of needs my help or else it's going to, it's going to, I'm going to have to run it half of the year into the full year. My husband can't get his really good job back, or we could buy a second home somewhere else and kind of do the snowbird lifestyle. My question is this, we have seven children ages 19 to six and we did skip baby step number five. So how important is it that we keep our income higher, be more stable, support them through college or do we kind of go for the dreamy, the dreams, I guess, and try to work on careers that we love and places we love to live.

And the kids fend for themselves. Kind of. Just turn them loose. Well, I mean, I don't know. Part of our idea is going to Florida half a year, working there. My husband's a nurse. He can travel nurse. I can start another side gig or do mine half a year when we live in Idaho.

They can go to school there. We can support them, I guess, with housing, but not as much with money. What's your current house worth with the mortgage on it? $700,000. Okay, and you owe about half of that. You could pay it off today. But you're thinking about selling this and moving for work. No, we would pay this.

My number one option is to pay this house off, enhance it so it's more rentable because we can add things to it because it's a destination in the wilderness. And so we can add some more rental options to it and make money off of it while we're not here. And then we could buy a second home for cash in like Florida or Arizona, somewhere warm. My husband can make pretty good money in nursing, travel nursing. And then I would probably get a seasonal side gig in the winter. And then in the summers, I would run my business in Boise half of the year. But it's kind of messy that way.

That's kind of what I want to ask is. That sounds like empty nesters that doesn't sound like seven kids yeah yeah i know we would probably net 200 000 a year if we did the snowbird kind of lifestyle with our kids and we would probably net 400 000 if we went back to the city and kept things stable could you do400,000 option until we get college taken care of and kind of get our financial situation in order? How old is the youngest? Six.

No. We need like a 10-year plan. We're going to graduate four kids in five years um i don't think there's a wrong answer unless it unless you call me up later and say the children were forced to get student loans because they're not forced to do that no they're not and they i mean our oldest kids did a lot of dual credit um so they have two years done of school our younger kids are already working on dual credit the youngest probably will go for a scholarship can you cash flow their school with their help and can they with your help cash flow their school if you do your snowbird option we just make less that way

the other way would be i know you make less i said can they get through college without debt if you do the snowboard up snow bird option i think so i do I don't want to just dream this. I want to lay it out on paper. Kid number one is going to need X. Kid number two is going to need Y. Kid number three is going to need Z. Kid number four is going to need A. Kid number five is going to need B. We lay out the money.

We look at it, and the kid's going to do this. They're going to get the credits. They're going to work. They're going to go to this school. It's going to cost a certain amount of money, and here's going to do this. They're going to get the credits. They're going to go. They're going to work. They're going to go to this school. It's going to cost. It's going to cost a certain amount of money. And here's how much we have. And we're going to tear into this million dollars in order to do this with their in

order to supplement what they can't cover. So they don't have student loans and what you can't cash flow because you did the snowbird option. If you can pull all that off i'm fine with it and you're going to haul them back and forth from florida to boise right right okay as long as you want to do all that i'm good with it but it kind of sounds like your snowbird thing is like as if you didn't have children or something i know i mean because because when i said haul them back and forth you went

did you hear yourself yeah i mean the ones that live with us would have to go back and forth the ones that are launching which two of them are you know they can decide then we only got five to haul yeah how old are you two 46 and 47 i'll give you a medium plan halfway between okay probably doesn't work though that might work i mean you could go do the 400 for three years and that would launch the vast majority of the kiddos and then the snowbird wouldn't involve hauling as many children on its back right that's what i was thinking maybe we just seen a little more time of hauling as many children on its back. Right. That's what I was thinking.

Maybe we just need a little more time. That would be unstable. Yeah. I mean, you can do either one, but part of the downside for me on your plan is hauling a whole truckload of kids back and forth twice a year because you're upsetting teenagers, social networks, and family and everything else. You're resetting.

I mean, Sharon and I, it's just us. We can run back and forth and stay wherever. I mean, nobody cares particularly, except grandkids griping about Mimi not being around. But other than that, I mean, we're not hauling people around. It's just me and her. We can go with a backpack and go. But you guys, you got a lot of stuff you're moving around, a lot of human beings you're moving around there.

So it's just however you want to do it. But mathematically, be sure whatever plan you're going to do, that you map it all the way out. Begin with the end in mind, as Stephen Covey said. And that's where I was thinking if she could use the $400,000 income and quickly front load a bunch of 529s for the young kids, cash flow the older ones, that can get them in a good spot. Yeah, do that for two or three years, not forever. Not necessarily until the six-year-old leaves.

And the snowbird plan becomes maybe a five, seven-year plan. Well, not even. Maybe a three or four. I mean, you could do it for three or four. They've already got a million bucks clear, plus a house clear. So, you know, approaching a $2 million net worth already. So, well done, by the way, on that, April. Awesome. do it for three or four they've already got a million bucks clear plus a house clear so you know approaching a two million dollar net worth already so well done by the way on that april awesome well done so i i just want you to be really intentional and thoughtful and just map

this out the whole thing out like it was a business plan and and you're you know you're estimating your cash needs and your cash sources and my cash sources my income my needs are tuition and travel and whatever else we're doing here and do we do that on 200 and deplete the million or do we do that on 400 for three years and then we'd never touch the million probably you know something like that somewhere in there is your answer but just run it run it accountants would call it a sources and uses okay where's what's your income sources and what are your uses and map that out through the last kid getting through college and then let's figure out which way we're going to go and that'll give you an answer that feels it that feels peaceful uh but just kind of going well i think i might no that doesn't work in the next family movie night

everyone watch borrowed future as a family because that will spark the conversations about how we're going to go to college debt free uh and that'll get them moving but i don't like the option of they all just figure it out and go get student loans yeah we can do better than that turning loose seven kids feral is not a good plan this is the Ramsey Show. George Campbell Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America. Jacob and Taylor are on the debt-free stage in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions. How are you?

Great. How are you? Better than I deserve. Welcome. Where do you guys live? So we're from Tulsa, Oklahoma. Oh, fun. Welcome to Nashville.

How much debt did you pay? So we paid off 182,000 good for you how long did that take too long but about eight years okay good and uh what was your range of income during that time so we started about 70,000 70 75 and then up to about $125,000. Cool. What do you all do for a living? So I'm a mechanic at a Lexus dealer in Tulsa. After I graduated college, I ended up in the nonprofit field for about seven and a half years. But now I'm a stay-at-home dog mom. I have a network marketing business and I'm a part-time barista. Okay. Good for you. Cool.

All right. What kind of debt was the $182,000? So it was student loan for her and then our mortgage. Oh, it paid off your house. Look at it, weird people. I love it. So what is this house worth in Tulsa? It's worth about $280,000 now.

Way to go, guys. Nice house. We're seeing it on YouTube here. Nice picture. Yeah. And it's all yours. All ours. How old are you two weirdos?

So I'm 33. I just turned 32 last week you have a paid for house yes do you know anyone that's 33 with a paid for house other than george he was a huge inspiration for us very very big so that means the world well i'm amazed that this trend keeps happening i think we're seeing it more and more people in their 20s and 30s late 20s early 30s coming in here with a paid off house yes definitely yeah we're it's very exciting do you know i mean any of your friend group got a paid for house i don't think so that i know of yeah they'd be talking about it if they did yeah that's true very true they'd be here too where did this idea even come from how'd you guys get started on this ramsay way eight years ago

yeah yeah good question uh so right after i graduated college is when we got married and we actually got financial peace University membership as a wedding gift. And so I'd love to give a shout out to Tracy, a family friend who gifted that to us. And that changed everything for our family. So we took it about three months after we got married. And I remember sitting there the second or third week and I was like, we have to teach this. Like people need to know about this. And so we went through the class and we kind of did things a little, a little out of order. We actually like

bought our home during the class, but it turns out we did it right. We put 20% down. It's a 15 year loan, all of that. So all of that was right. But then we, you know, ventured on the student loan and we got that done. It was 38,000 and we got that done it was 38 000 and we got that done in 22 months good so we knocked that out pretty quickly and so um right after that class was over we started teaching um so we've coordinated uh nearly 15 classes now oh good for you thank you we love it absolutely super coordinators yes you gotta follow the stuff at that point the whole class is looking at you have you led one since paying off the house? We had one this summer, so we got to celebrate with them.

And then we'll have another one in January. So that's really kept us accountable, you know, working with each of the classes and sharing our story and all of that. It's like your personal trainer having a six pack. This is a good sign. I'm in the right place when I'm in your class. Way to go. Yes, we're excited. So we, in a lot of ways, I guess a huge part of our story is, you know, we've had emergencies

come up just like anybody else. We've replaced our AC unit. I had a four-night hospital stay. And we also, Jacob is working on his bachelor's, and so we're cash-flowing that. And so that's part of the reason why maybe it's taking a little bit longer and what are you studying jacob mechanical engineering oh very good okay how much longer do you have uh about a year oh wow good for you that's gonna be a great breakthrough for you yeah but it's been a been an almost five-year process yeah but it's all part-time yeah exactly so and as newlyweds we've we've done a lot of traveling and we've done a lot of traveling.

We've done a couple of international trips. We've been all over the United States, but all with cash, all without credit cards. And so that certainly has, you know, extended our, you know, our deadline, I guess. But the goal was always to pay off for home seven years early. Yeah. And that's exactly what we did. Hit the goal. Yeah, we did.

It's been really exciting. Really, really good. Well, once you're out of Baby Steps 2 and 3, travel is allowed. It just slows down how much you put on Baby Steps 6. Or buying a car is allowed. Or going to school is allowed. It just slows down how much you put on Baby Steps 6. But you still did all of that and did the house in seven years. Yes. That's pretty cool.

Yeah, we sure did. It's been fun. It's been exciting. Living proof. This stuff still works yes exactly every day yeah and in a lot of ways too um jacob and i are both natural givers um and so outside of our mortgage our giving category in our budget was actually one of the largest and so we were kind of practicing baby step seven even kind of before we got there yeah so you know the the travel and the giving part of that. You know, we give to things that we're passionate about.

We just couldn't wait to do that. Amen. Good for you. Yeah. Good for you. Okay. Now, how does it feel when you walk through the backyard and you don't have any payment? It feels nice.

It really does. I mean, we don't necessarily, like, worried if that payment was going to be there the first of the month. But it's nice not having to, like even having to worry about that. Have you all walked back in the backyard and stood and looked at the house and went, that's ours? We have, actually. Yes, yes. Yeah, front, back. Walked through the grass barefoot.

Pictures. Neighbors are going, what are they doing over there? Exactly, yes. They do a lot of celebrating over there. That's good. Good for you. What do you tell people in your class the secret to getting out of debt is oh man number one on my list is tithing that's been just the forefront of our mind and why do you think that is man when you live life like this you know it's just better than open-handed yes yeah it's just better than you can dream or imagine. And so blessings have come from that.

And certainly, since we have led 15 Financial Peace University classes, we watch the videos 15 times. And so just keeping up with that and having a group to walk through that with has been a really crucial part. The accountability and the open-handedness. What about you, Jacob? I think a lot of it is not living above your means i mean that we've you know not been in any kind of dire straight situation but we've also not like saying oh i need to go into debt for to do this or i need to put this money towards a trip and not pay off what we need to pay off so i think it's it's knowing what you need as opposed to just what you want yeah it's intentionality right yeah yeah way to go guys i'm so proud of you thank you who was

uh who was cheering you on everybody everybody yeah um a lot a lot of my parents instilled a lot of this into into me from the get-go so they've always been kind of that driving force for me, especially not before we got married. And then since we've been married, they've been a constant cheerleading team. So then her grandma, then our friends, who know that we're on this journey, they've always been super supportive.

And our church, family, our community group, we're surrounded by a huge support team wow that's awesome that makes a big difference yeah and you guys are in your early 30s you got no payments give me something you're excited to do in the give save spend category with no payments now yeah for sure yeah i mean making our giving budget a little bit larger now uh we're updating our home so like you know updating the outdoor space and replacing windows things like that adulting yeah exactly yes any big trips now you're like this is the big debt-free trip yeah actually next May we're gonna go to

Italy so we actually had a fundraising gala prior to kovat we won the won a trip through a silent auction and kov COVID kind of ruined that a little bit. Couldn't go. Well, now we are three years on from it. We're actually going to get to go on it, and even in a better financial place than we were then to go. So we're going to kind of use that as our celebratory. Yeah, good. That's awesome.

That's a good trip. Well done, y'all. That's fun. Yes. Well, congratulations. We're very proud of you. We've got the done, y'all. That's fun. Yes. Well, congratulations. We're very proud of you. We've got the live and give bundle for you because you've been doing a lot of both, living and giving.

So Baby Steps Millionaire's book, you'll be there very soon if you're not already. I didn't ask how much you have in retirement. How much do you have in retirement? We probably have, I think we have probably about 100 grand now with you said the house is worth 300 close to it yeah so you're about 400 of a million almost on your you're on your way to baby steps millionaire right good yeah we got that book for you and that's your next step and next stop and total money makeover book maybe to give to one of your class members and a financial peace university membership if you find somebody that can't go we'll assist you and you're giving uh your generosity plunge

that you're taking that's awesome so congratulations you guys thank you all right jacob and taylor tulsa oklahoma 182 000 paid off house and everything count it down let's hear a debt-free scream three two one we're debt free! Yeah! Woo! Wow. Excellent. Excellent. This is The Ramsey Show.

Our scripture of the day, James 1.5. If any of you lacks you lacks wisdom let him ask god who gives generously to all without reproach and it will be given to him charlie munger says it is remarkable how much long-term advantage people like us have gotten by trying to be consistently not stupid instead of trying to be intelligent george that's like right up the alley of your whole youtube show oh absolutely if you'll just not be stupid you have a mark you have a marketplace advantage absolutely and charlie munger uh rest his soul passed away recently but man that advice is timeless so i'm still using it today just trying to help people avoid the stupid those clips of him and warren buffett together sitting and talking hilarious are fabulous they're so brilliant and they have so much wit

yeah they're just well they're dry they don't there's it's like two old man muppets that's what it reminds me of it's pretty funny the two guys in the balcony but but with a lot of a lot more wisdom statler and waldorf yeah a lot more wisdom than a muppet yeah but yeah they're just they just don't give that's classic old men don't give a rip i can't wait to get there let me know how it is dave when you're there don't care what you think i've been there since i was a young guy i don't care what you think it's kind of lost the need for that started it early max is in boston hey max welcome to the ramsey show thank you for having me excited to be here uh just last week blew through total bunny makeover in just like

two days and it really spoke to me and I've realized that I just I have tracked all my like spending for the last almost nine months since the beginning of March I have absolutely no idea how to just go about like the right behaviors like I see it and I feel like I'm not saving enough money that I need to be for my future goals. Like I know I want to buy an engagement ring for my girlfriend. I know that I want to start doing those next kind of things in life. And I'm just not, I feel like I'm behind, but I feel like I'm not in a terrible spot.

You just dive into like how to navigate money, I guess. How old are you? Uh, just turned 30 in October. Well, the good news is you got plenty of time to reroute this ship. So what is your current financial picture? Do you have much debt?

I have $1,200 with no interest for a mattress I got a couple years ago. That's it. That's it. So $1,200 would get you completely debt-free, but you're living paycheck to paycheck. Are you making good money? What's your income? My gross income for this year will be $91,000. Wow. But I'm still, yeah. Do you have anything in the bank? Yeah, I got $1, I got 1300 in checking 8,500 in savings, 29,000 in a 401k. Uh, it was very lucky to have a grandma who left some money behind. So I have 72,500 in

investment account and then 3000 in crypto. And so. And so that's what I'm working with. Well, you got plenty of money. Yeah, I still just stress. The beauty, you read the total on your makeover. So let me tell you, those baby steps, they work. As long as you don't think you're unique or special and need to mess with them, it works. And so you already have $1,000. You have the money and savings to pay off the mattress today.

Let's get that out of your head. It's living rent-free in your head right now. It is. So get that out of the picture. Now we can work on a fully funded emergency fund, which you could have very quickly, make a $91,000. You already have a good start. Take some out of the investment account, create the emergency fund.

Yeah, you already have it sitting there. So you're in baby steps four, five, and six if you move some money around. Cash in the crypto, pay off the mattress, build your emergency fund out of the money that you've got at your fingertips. If you can't quite get there on the three to six months, use a little bit of the investment money and move it in there and go that route. And then you're at baby step four, start investing 15% of your income into retirement. Do you own a home yet? No, I rent. Okay. You thinking about buying a house?

I don't think I'll be ready for that for a few years, I think. What does ready mean, emotionally or financially? Financially. Okay. Why? You make plenty of money. I'm not really saving a ton. I'm paying $1,900 in rents.

My total living expense is about $2,500. What's your take-home pay? Take-home is going to be, if you read some math, about $58,718 for this year. So you can save $3,000 a month. In one year, that's $36,000. With some of the money you've got from your grandmother, you've got enough for a good down payment in a year. So I should use that on a down payment and not just ride in deficit?

Some of it, yeah. the problem is max you're just doing a lot at once and they're all good things savings great investing is great paying off debt is great but when you do it with some focus intensity like mattress is gone tomorrow all right next up we got to get the emergency fund great we got that let's invest 15 then you've got some margin and you have a focus goal and so beyond the 15 it's let's get the engagement ring let's work on the down payment fund the engagement ring and the crypto will do that yeah hey there you go it's a good trade good trade fake money for a girl that's a good trade do you want a wife or do you want some ethereum that's that's the call to make here max

i'm gonna choose the thing that's real and not the thing that some guy made up you're max you're on your way george is right if you'll take the stuff from the total money makeover and follow it straight through it'll give you a sense of power because you've got a step-by-step plan laid out there it also sounds like you need to probably do a detailed budget and then give yourself permission to walk these steps. Somehow it sounds like you don't feel like that this is all possible. It's very possible with the math you gave us. But part of it is you have to start taking the actions based on that you start to believe that it's possible.

And when you start taking those actions, pay off the mattress, get rid of the crypto, get the emergency fund in place, get the ring, then take a year and let's save up the money for a down payment. During that time, you're probably going to get married. That'd be awesome. Then you've got two incomes to save towards a down payment on the house, and you'll be in really, really good shape at that point.

That's where I would take you. Josephine is in Brooklyn. Hi, Josephine. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi, how are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? I'm in a little limbo here. So I was watching your show off and on, you know, I work,

but then I was home working from home this day, and I was watching your show where you was talking about old debt, when you go into debt, when you have a debt, you don't pay it off and they go into collections and what they do is they pay a penny on the dollar. So I took a payday loan out probably 13 years ago, maybe a little longer. Yeah. And all of that time never heard. So I was working for a company that went out of business.

So all the emails and all that got blasted. So I probably owed maybe another $200 on it. And I, you know, was waiting for them to contact me. They didn't, not making an excuse, so I didn't pay it. So in September of this year, I got a call from a law office saying that that loan now was $14,000 something dollars and they could settle it out of court for about $3,200. So for the fact is that I'm actually saving for a home and I want to, you know, uh, not have any increase on my, uh, my credit report because I worked hard to build up my credit. I paid them.

And now I'm getting another call back from another law firm saying that what I paid them did not cover the law fees, and now they're asking me for another $2,745. So you did not get it in writing that $3,200 paid the account? I have what they call an OOCR. I have something saying yes, that I do have something in writing saying that this settles the account.OCR. I have something saying yes that it was – that I do have something in writing saying that this settles the account. I do have something, yes. Tell the other law firm to stick it.

You have a bill in your hand that says paid in full on an old bad debt for $3,200. You overpaid on that, but you gave them $3,200, and they gave you a piece of paper that says you paid the bill in full. Am I right? Well, no, they sent me, so this is what I did. I sent an email for an OOCR saying that this amount is for the debt, and this settles the debt. Yes, it does say this settles the debt.

It settles the debt. This is a scam. Just tell them to bite it. Not a chance I'm giving them a dime. Nope. Good luck with that. Yeah. I'm sorry.

Oh, people, people, people, people. Payday lenders. Scum of the earth. Scum of the earth. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Thank you.