The Ramsey Show - App - I’m Retirement Age but Have No Money Saved (Hour 2)

Episode Date: November 22, 2021

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🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's The Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, George Camel. Ramsey Personality is my co-host today.

We're here to answer your questions about your life and your money. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. The last episode of Season 1 for the Fine Print, our expose on all things that screw you through fine print, is out with George Camel, and it's absolutely incredible. The last episode drops today, so be sure and check that out. It's a Ramsey Networks production,

and George and his team have done a fabulous job putting these together. Colin is with us in Charlottesville, Virginia, to start this hour. Hey, Colin, how are you? Oh, I'm doing well, sir. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Awesome. Well, so I've been lucky enough for the past 11 years to have been married to a financial peace baby, but in my stubbornness, I've been unlucky enough to not listen to her. Um, thankfully we are out of debt. We're actually in baby step four, um, and partly in the five. Um, but I was curious to know, um, my employer

just this year started offering a Roth 401k, um, as one of our benefits along with the traditional. And they match 5% of my pay in the traditional. And then sometime next year, they're supposed to give us an option to either maintain our cash balance pension or turn that off. And then they'll give us 2 percent into the roth as long as we match it and currently i'm putting in 10 and 10 percent into the roth and the five percent that they match into the traditional i just wanted to know your thoughts on that the only way you can take a match is traditional you don't have a choice in that the no absolutely so the

match is a five percent traditional that's what the law says and then the new two percent when you turn off the pension next year will be traditional as well now you can roll it to a roth each year so i i take my match i match myself i own the company it's kind of stupid but i match myself and then i i roll my match after the first of the year every year into the roth and pay the taxes on it so it will keep going but my house is paid for you're in baby step four or five six you wouldn't do that you would just take the match and take the roth yeah are you so you're not investing a full 15 right now no i am i have 10 going into the roth right now and then i'm putting in five into

the traditional, which they're also matching. So yeah, you don't need to be... They'll match in the Roth. Yeah, you don't need to be doing the 5%. You can do that in the Roth, and they'll match the 5%, but it'll go to the traditional side. So the way it reads, and when I spoke to HR, my HR department, they said it will not, they're not going to match our 5% unless we put it into traditional. That doesn't make sense. I think you misunderstood. Well, they called me on the phone, and I asked very clearly, and they also followed me up with an email in print that said the same thing.

I would go into your 401k and check the actual balances and see what's adding up there but because I do 15 percent here at Ramsey into our Roth 401k and they still match and it goes to traditional the match has to be in traditional but the amount you get matched on does not have to be in a traditional by law now they could have that as a regulation or a rule within their own 401k at your company, but I will tell you in all my years of doing this, that's the first time I've ever heard of that. That's why I think you've misunderstood. That's very weird. Well, and that's what I was – I thought it was weird, too.

There's no benefit to them at all. Yeah, pretty much none. And that's what's crazy is that when I double-checked on the 2% that they said they were going to match to the Roth, as long as we turn off the cash balance pension, and they double-verified that that was correct as well. Because I thought the same thing. You can only match into traditional. I don't know. The match that they give you, that money has to be traditional.

The money you're putting in that they are matching, again, can be Roth by law. Now, whether or not they are allowing that, I'm not sure they can even do what you're describing by law. So I really do think that this is confused. I think you guys either your hr person has got it wrong or you've misunderstood what they're saying the five percent that they give you the two percent that they give you as a match has to be in the traditional it can be matching however what is in the roth and i i'm i don't even think they've got the right to do it otherwise i i don't i think once i say i match something as the employer i have to match either roth or traditional whatever you put

in now the portion that i match with again goes into traditional so to be very clear but anyway check on that and that's what you should do you should be putting 15 of your income away as much of it in roth as you, that you get the match. Always get all the match. And, yes, if they give you 2% extra for dropping the other thing, I'm probably dropping the other thing. You can run some math on what it's worth. We don't know what it's worth in this discussion today. But most of the time where you can control your money instead of it being in a pension, you're going to make more, and it doesn't die when you die.

Pensions die with you. And this money, as it piles up, is your money at death, and it's left to your family, your beneficiary on your 401K. Dave, we get this question a lot of, if my employer matches, do I still do the 15%? Where do you stand as far as— Well, you know. I mean, answer it. Tell them what to do. So as far as I know, if you've got a mandatory do so as far as i know if you've got a mandatory contribution from your own paycheck you say you can count that at about half if it's mandatory if it's mandatory from your own paycheck and but and if you don't control what it's going into

that's different but in a 401k you control it you control what it's going into but this is something like a state pension plan or a state plan of some kind most of the time that's where it is sometimes it's a large union thing or something like that. There is a railroad. There's some of that where you have a mandatory 7% that they're taking out of your check, and you don't even control what it goes into. In that case, I wouldn't count all of it. But the matching portion doesn't count towards the 15%.

That's just icing. That's just extra money. Oh, darn. I hate it when I have more money at retirement. I hate it when that happens. So 15% of your income out of your pocket should go at baby step four into retirement planning. That's household income. Now, you and your wife, you and your husband add your money together.

15% of that figure should be going first to get all the matches you can get, second to all the Roth you can get, and third and lastly, only then do you do traditional if you have to. And if you don't have a Roth 401k option, you say, let's go over to the Roth IRA. Exactly. If you're eligible for that. Get all the Roth you can get. Get all the Roth you can get because that's tax-free, but 100% return on your money with a match,

even if you've got to pay taxes on it, nets out more than tax-free nets out. So you take the match always first, and then Roth from there, all you can do. And that's, you know, so it's rock, paper, scissors. Match beats Roth beats traditional. That's all you've got to remember. Right down the line. And that'll work. George Campbell, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today.

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Thank you for being with us. George Camel, Ramsey personality, is my co-host. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Randy is with us in Alberta, Canada, or Edmonton, Alberta. I'm sorry. It is Alberta, Canada. How can we help, Randy? Hey, George and Dave. It's a pleasure to talk to you guys. You too. What's up? So I discovered your program back in January, and I've paid off about $70,000 in debt already. I should be debt-free March 1st. But I do have a rental I own with my mother.

We're 50-50 partners on it. And just curious whether I should be adding that into my debt snowball or maybe look at selling. Mom's good either way. The partnership's going really great. She supports me in my financial journey. so either way would work for her just wanted to get your thoughts on that uh you own the home you live in yes i own the home i live in and is it paid off no no sorry when i say debt free and my market that's fine how much do you owe on your home?

My home, I owe $245,000. And how much equity is in the rental? Equity in the rental is about $60,000. So you get $30,000 each if you sold it? Correct. How's the market there? Market with COVID, it actually went down quite a bit. It's slowly coming back it's not where it should be yet but it's getting better all the time

economy's picking up here so definitely not red hot okay well in general I'm going to move you out of that but over time I'm not in a hurry if it takes you two years or three years and you want to kind of ride this economy back up, because a lot of areas in North America, of course, are white-hot real estate, you're quite the opposite. You're kind of cooled off, it sounds like. And so, you know, I might ride that a little bit. There's nothing panicking here. But in general, if you didn't own the rental while you've got debt on your home,

I wouldn't take money out of your pocket to go buy a rental. Instead, I would pay it down on your home. And so in this case, I would reverse the process if that's what was going on. But I'm not in a hurry to do it. You got any thoughts on that? Yeah. I mean, you have 70. How much debt do you have left other than these two mortgages?

$27,000. And what's your household income? $110,000. And what's your household income? $110,000. I missed that. Okay. I'd sell it now. So you could clear your consumer debt if you sold this, it sounds like. Immediately.

Yeah, that's what I would do. I missed that you had consumer debt. Somehow I heard you were debt-free except your house. I goofed. You said you're debt-free March 1st? March 1st is my debt-free city. With the consumer debt. At this point, correct. Yeah, I mean, I don't know how much more the housing market will increase if it's going to skyrocket, but I'd want to be debt-free sooner

than March 1st if you can just do it in one fell swoop here and get out of the situation with mom and owning the house. Yeah, yeah. I'm not upset about mom at this stage of the game. I'm not upset about the rental. But I do want that personal debt cleared. And then let's just turn around and attack the house. Yeah. I think you did this out of order, and so I would undo it. Now.

Go ahead and sell it now. I mean, you'll sell it right the second. But sometime right after the first of the year, let's put it on the market. Make a move on it. Get your debts all cleaned up and move on. that's what i would do i missed that good catch good catch that's what i'm here for that's what you got my back got my back rick is in boise hi rick how are you i'm great how are you guys better than i deserve what's up well i need some advice on my particular financial situation.

Just to give you a little background, I will be 65 this spring. And I am debt-free with the exception of my home. And I have virtually nothing saved. I've been kind of a small business owner all my life and entrepreneur. So I've not been lucky enough to really have had extra money to save. However, that has kind of changed here in the last couple of years. I have a business that is doing very well comparative to my history. And so although I don't have anything saved, I have income. And I'm wondering what you think I should do with the

income that I have coming in. It's way more than I have a very simple life. So I don't, I have a lot of disposable extra income right now. What should I do? What is this income? It's my self-employment income. I know how much. Oh, how much? About $150,000 a year. And what's it take you to live? About $50,000. Okay, so you can bank $100,000. Pretty darn close.

And you said your house is paid for or not? No, I own $200,000 on my home. Okay. Well, I would be banking a big chunk of this. I'd be banking 15% of your household income. That's $30,000 roughly. Let's go ahead and round it up to 30. Make it a little more. Make it

20% and then I'd throw the rest of it at the house until the house is paid off and the house is paid for. I'd bank $100,000 a year. How long can you keep working at this rate? My goal is I want to work until i'm 70 i'm pretty healthy so i don't see any issues with that you know god willing but um i'd like to be done by by the time i'm 70 my plan is is that i'm hoping to be able to sell my company when I'm 70, and that will give me probably close to a million dollars before tax. Maybe it's worth more. Who knows what it's going to be worth five years from now, but that will certainly help. I have some rental income, about $48,000 a year,

which actually I didn't add into the $150,000. Is the rental paid for? It is paid for. Okay. But your mortgage isn't on your primary? Yes. I have a house payment of about $1,300 a month with a $215,000 balance. So the goal five years from today is how much can you have in investments to still

end up with your house paid for that's what i want say that again i want you to put as much as you can in investments to still have your house paid for so i think you can pay for your house in about three years while putting 30 000 away that'd be 100 000 in there and then the other two years you put 100 to 200 000 away so you should end up with a half million dollar nest egg and a paid for house and a paid for rental and whatever the business brings right at 70. yeah that's that's kind of my plan it was just the only caveat here is if the business doesn't sell for a million dollars what do you do then because it's not worth a million dollars today. It's not today, no. But, you know, COVID has been pretty good to me, if you want to say it like that. You know, this is a company that's made about $40,000 to $50,000 a year for the last 12 years. So what happens?

What kind of a business is it? Well, I own a biohazard removal company, so we do a lot of homicide, suicide cleanup kind of stuff. Wow. Wow. What a mess. No pun intended. Yeah, I was going to say, that's spot on. Ouch.

Okay, I don't know if it'll be worth a million then, but I want you to have a half million in savings and a paid-for house and a paid-for rental when you get to 70 and you budget to make that happen. That's my game plan if I'm in your shoes. This is The Ramsey Show. Thank you. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, Richard and Jennifer are with us. Hey, guys, how are you? Good, how are you? Good. Where do you guys live?

Colorado, Denver, Colorado. All right, welcome to Nashville. And all the way over here to do a debt live? Colorado. Denver, Colorado. All right. Welcome to Nashville. And all the way over here to do a debt-free scream. Absolutely. Thank you for having us. Absolutely. How much have you paid off? So it's a good one.

George, are you going to write this down? I'm writing. $407,000. Yay. Wow. Bam. How long did that take? Seven and a half years.

Cool. And your range of income during that time? $125,000 to about $200,000 now. Good for you. What do you guys do for a living? So I'm in pharmaceutical sales. Yeah, I've been doing that 20 years, which is why you were a big impact in our life, getting to baby step number seven.

All right. So 20 years ago, I started listening to you, driving around, going to medical clinics every single day. Oh, my gosh. And this is his income, not mine. I'm a stay-at-home mom. Oh, well, it's your income, too. That's true. Absolutely.

Because you're doing the real work. I'm just saying. CEO of the house. That's it. That's it. Congratulations, you guys. So house and everything. The house and everything. The house and everything.

Looking at weird people. Absolutely. I love it. I love it. Well done. So how much of the 407 was the house? All of it. All of it.

So it's just pay off the house in seven and a half years, just like that. Absolutely. Done. Done. Mic drop. The end. Yeah. What is this house worth?

So, you know, we bought, Dave, so we bought this at the bottom of the crash, right, 2010, 2011. We paid, I think, $509,000 for it. Now it's worth $1.3 million. It was a foreclosure. It was a foreclosure. Yeah. It needed a ton of work. So, yeah, we got lucky there.

Needless to say, you guys are baby step millionaires. Obviously. Yeah. Because you got that plus whatever retirement's going on. So very well done. Look at you guys. Yeah. How fun.

See, the baby steps work. Look at that. Who knew? Go figure. Right. Yeah. Go figure. So you started listening in the car 20 years ago.

Yep. And you started paying off other debts, I guess, at that point. Yeah, so, you know, we plowed through. We plugged away, you know, baby steps one, two, three, four, five really quick. Then we got stuck in Quagmire. So we moved four times, took some career advancements at work. And every time we bought a house, we had great intentions of doing a 15-year mortgage. And every single time, 30 years. So we get talked into a 30-year, right? Your payment

will be lower. You can buy a bigger house, you know? And then we'd be in the 30 years. So we moved four times, four different homes, 30- 30 year mortgages and then seven and a half years ago you know we got to a point where we're like i am tired to send a mr mortgage but mr cooper mortgage right a big check every single month work was really tough and then we had a medical diagnosis that popped up with our youngest and And you know what? That night when I was writing the check to Mr. Cooper, we were like, we are done. This is it. We're not doing this anymore. So we said, you know what? We're going to refinance. We stayed up late that night working on the refinance to 15 years. And then we cut that in half, right? 30 to 15. Then we put a plan together

to cut it in half again and said, you know what Then we put a plan together to cut it in half again and said, you know, we're going to be done with this in seven and a half years and put that plan in place. Good for you. Well done. And meanwhile,

the house shoots up in value. So the whole thing works together. How does it feel to not have a payment in the world? Oh, it's awesome. It's really good. It's sometimes hard to go to work. That's amazing.

So seven and a half years. Confessions of a debt-free guy. It's hard to go to work. How did you guys stay motivated for seven and a half years? I mean, that is a long time, right? That's a long journey. You know, we just kept the goal in front of us. We kept listening to the Ramsey show every day and listening to Debt Free Scream.

We heard this one guy call in, and he was a drywaller, and he paid off his house and his entire debt load. It was like $155,000 in like 18 months. And then at night, he was delivering pizzas at night on the weekend, doing Uber, right? Wow. We were like, wow, let's get this thing done. Let's just get to the end. So we set a goal. We just kept focused on the goal, George.

Wow. So what kind of sacrifice was there? Were you working extra? Was there overtime, side jobs? What were those things that really catapulted you to finish this? So, you know, we threw away all the little shovels, went out to Home Depot, got the biggest shovel we could find, put it in the trunk, and kept using that shovel. But, yeah, I, you know, we tried.

So you crushed it at your job. Tried to crush it, yep. That worked. Absolutely. And then she did a great job. You know, we bought that house seven and a half years, you know, it was about nine, ten years ago. We didn't really buy any furniture for the house. We wanted to get the house paid off.

We didn't want to get derailed with buy-in stuff, decorating, and just all the- Now it's cool. It's called minimalism. Right. Exactly. Yes, minimalism. And it was so funny because on our way out here she's like you know we still don't have those bar stools that we that we passed on like 10 years ago and i'm like yeah i guess

we'll have to get those bar stools when we go home yeah yeah probably time you can afford them now yeah with next month's house payment exactly that you don't have anymore exactly yeah way to go you guys very proud of you and you brought the kiddos with you bring them up what are their names and ages so it's camden is 17 and carden is nine okay cool so what do y'all tell people the key to getting out of debt is so you gotta go get a big shovel right get a big shovel you gotta question every time you spend your hard-earned dollars question why am i spending this and if you have to spend it can i get it cheaper and then you got to follow the seven baby steps i i would say if you're listening to the show right now go buy dave's book it's ten

dollars on his website and it will change your life. You've got to take action today. Right now, this second, I wouldn't wait. I would write it down. You know, I'd jump on Amazon and buy the book right now or go to the website. Well, thank you, brother. We appreciate you selling books for us. Good stuff. All right.

Well done, you guys. We're very proud of you. You're heroes. House and everything. House is worth $1.3, making 200 a year. Life is good at Richard and Jennifer's home. Well done, well done, well done. All right.

All right. $407,000 paid off in seven and a half years, making 125 to 200. Richard, Jennifer, Camden, and Carden. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, Camden, and Carden. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Yes! Yes!

Woo-hoo-hoo-hoo! This is how it is done, boys and girls. Wow. That's powerful. 20 years of following this stuff and seven and a half he said no more mortgages for me lean in on the mortgage at the last seven and a half and kick in baby step six you know and knock it out yeah that's uh that's the way you're supposed to do it and very very well done and baby steps millionaires there's another one um the number of debt free screams

that we have these days especially if their home is paid off as a part of it, that are simultaneously millionaires announcing is pretty incredible. It's like a thing. That's why we did the new book, Baby Steps Millionaires, How Ordinary People Built Extraordinary Wealth How You Can Too. It comes out in January. But these guys are the model of that. It's perfect.

I'm so proud of them. What neat people. Yeah, it's a great story. And seeing those kids up there who will never know debt and seeing their family sacrifice for this long, they're going, you know what? I'd like a paid-for house someday. Yeah, that's a plan. That's a plan I'm going to aim at. Absolutely.

And it is so doable. You know, the trick is to start to believe it's possible. And that belief thing is a big part of the equation yeah you can do the math and that's one part of it because they said hey we cut in half then we cut in half again and then we said if we actually do this stuff it will magically be paid off so it's part math and then part doing the behaviors that cause you to win yeah following the system and not deviating no ishh. No ish around here. No Ramsey ish. Not for Richard and Jennifer. Lean in, baby. Full on. Ish is a wish. Game on. Get her done. Get her done. You can do it. These guys are heroes. Very cool. This is The Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. George Campbell Ramsey personality is my co-host.

Open phones at 888-825-5225. Robert is in Baltimore, Maryland. Hey, Robert, welcome to the Ramsey Show. What's up, gentlemen? How are y'all? Better than I deserve, sir. How can we help? All right, so on Friday, my wife and I are closing on the sale of our house. With the money we're getting from that, and we're moving into a downsizing to a two-bed, two-bath trailer that my cousin is renting us. With the sale of that, plus the difference in our living expenses, we're going to be debt free in about six months.

And in about a year or so, we'll plan on buying a bigger, better house for, I have a young son and plan on having more here in the future. Good for you. So my question is, between now and then, should I get myself smart on real estate so I don't have to have a real estate agent, or is it worth biting a bullet and just paying for that agent and trying to save money wherever I can? Very seldom does the buyer pay the agent anyway. Typically the seller pays the commission. Yeah, because the housing market is so hot

and I don't know what it's going to be like a year from now, I was thinking if I wasn't having a buyer's agent, then it would be kind of a checkmark in my column for negotiations. Yeah, it would be if all things were equal, but all things aren't equal this is not amateur hour and you don't want to buy your largest asset with no professional assistance never having done this before and try to negotiate in one of the hottest marketplaces in the last hundred years it's exactly the wrong time to not have someone in your corner so you definitely need a buyer's agent they will make you more than they cost you okay great because they can actually cause the negotiation to occur and when you're trying to do it one-on-one the chances of that happening unless you're unless you bought i mean i bought 2 000 pieces of real estate the last house i bought six months

ago i bought through a real estate agent and i've got a broker's license but i'm not active in the market and i don't need to be negotiating up in this market, messing with all these people. Man, and I guarantee you I made money on that transaction. Matter of fact, I bought two properties this year, come to think of it, two houses this year, and both of them I used a real estate agent on. Now, we bought a huge piece of development land. My son-in-law manages all our real estate, and he managed that managed that transaction he's a broker too but i mean that was that was a little different play that was that had zeros on it but um but a lot of people do go well dave i can save on the three percent the six

percent if i do it myself and i had some family try that for sale by owner and it was a nightmare now here's the thing here's what's interesting the agent there are the the people selling the house put it up for sale by owner to try to save the commission and you know when the people come to buy from a for sale by owner what they're thinking is well they don't have to pay a commission so i should be able to get a better deal well you can't both save the same commission it's not mathematically possible and so you're going to end up splitting it down the middle and you're going to end up screwing up something in the transaction that's going to cost you a lot more because of your lack of knowledge of how the transaction

goes down than the little bit of commission. Commission's not your problem in this market. There's a lot of problems, and there ain't one of them. Hannah's with us in Raleigh, North Carolina. Hi, Hannah. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi there. How are you?

Better than I deserve. How can George and I help? Okay. Okay. So I am, let's see. Basically, I've been not in debt, but also not broke. I've been, see, I'm trying to get my background here. So backstory, I just came into $300,000 of liquid assets because my father passed away.

I'm sorry. Um, it's, it's fine. It's kind of a redemption story. Sort of interesting, but he, um, we hadn't found him for 17 years.

So through this, he resurfaced and, um, we were all joking. Wouldn't it be funny if he died a millionaire? It turned out he did basically. And he left this to us four kids and we split it four ways so um basically i have gone to from just kind of being the average uh

average girl that's not really planning for the future to now i have this chunk to have this opportunity to do something smart. Good. How old are you? I'm kind of old. I'm 36. Oh, you're ancient. I can't believe you. How do you get around?

36. I don't know. People are telling me I'm old. I got socks older than that. Oh, my gosh. You need new socks, Dave. You do, actually. Yeah.

But, yeah, so, I mean mean i went to college late and then i've just been working really hard but how much do you make so currently uh i haven't even done the math on that 20 bucks an hour it's not something to frown at i don't think um what does that come to 40 000 a year maybe 45 44 something like that yeah so and that's um no i currently i have i'm down to two thousand dollars of debt i've never had much debt i've stayed out of it um i did i did get a college degree because my grandma offered to buy me one so i don't have any student loans um i wouldn't have gone to school if she did not. So what's your question for us today? So my question is mainly, well, here's the other side of the story.

My husband and I both run our own businesses, and we've gotten to the point where we both agreed that having our own property to do it is going to be ultimately the smartest way to do it. I thought you made $20 an hour at your job. What kind of a business do you have? Oh, currently, well, I have my own personal business that I'm starting. And it's not like underway because I don't have a place to do it. So I've got a lot of materials.

What kind of business? It's a pony operation, basically. People think I'm crazy. I've got three ponies that I've managed to keep through leaving my parents house, going through college, everything. I've supported them the whole way. Um, and they do like pony rides and they do, um, ultimately I want to be doing equine therapy. So I've been educating myself on that for a while.

What does your husband do? He's a pro recording engineer. He's got a full pro studio that he bought for himself, and he's already got albums out there. One more time, then I'm going to circle back. What's your question? My question is, what the husband thinks is we should just go ahead and spend this on a property or a house because we've got it, and then we basically he's talking about being house for it,

get a place and then have no mortgage. And wouldn't that be awesome? And my thing is yes, but I have, you know, a lot of, uh, 83,000 is like IRAs and the rest is stocks. And my thought is, well, if you put it into one hard asset, then none of it's working for you. And advisors are telling is, well, if you put it into one hard asset, then none of it's working for you. And advisors are telling me, oh, this is a great time to get a mortgage because it's at like 3% interest at the most to get a mortgage. So my question is, do I go into a mortgage or do I go ahead and just spend this chunk on a house and continue being who I am, which is a girl who just. Gotcha. Okay. So I wouldn't do this unless you've got a paid-for house, but it sounds like you don't

need this property right now. So I don't know. You said you had some single stocks going on as well. I would get a new financial advisor if they're telling you to go into debt and they're telling you to invest in single stocks. The reason they want you to go into debt is they don't want you to use this money. They would rather make a commission on this money when they invest it for you. They have a little bit of a conflict of interest in their advice, to say the least.

There's a lot going on here. All right. So I'm just going to be real plain with you, kiddo. Pony lady meets recording engineer. Two ideas, both of which have a high probability of losing your butt, losing money running these as full-time businesses. And so do not invest in the property to do either one of these business ideas. Rent the property to do these business ideas on a commercial basis. Invest in and buy a home and pay cash with it with this money. That way you can't get to the money and screw it up

and then go live your life on your income. Go create some income to build your businesses with and to grow your pony business and for him to grow his recording business, but all on a rental basis. Do not buy commercial recording studios. Never. I'm in Nashville. You know how you get the next country music star's attention in Nashville?

Waiter. And so they're on every corner, and there's a dadgum recording studio in every trailer in a 50-mile radius around here. It's ridiculous. Don't put money in that. Period. And your pony business is a hobby it's not a business it's never been a business it's been a hobby since college so it's okay to try to grow these things but do them on rental properties and own your house paid for cash to protect you from

you that's what i'm hearing that's a little blunt but that's what i heard. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, it's Kelly, associate producer and phone screener for The Ramsey Show. If you would like to do your debt-free scream live on the show, make sure you visit theramseyshow.com and register. We would love for you to come to Nashville and tell Dave your story.