The Ramsey Show - App - “I’m Scared To Make the Wrong Decision” (Hour 3)

Episode Date: May 28, 2024

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is The Ramsey Show. It's where we help you win in your life. Winning in your money life, in your relationship life, and in your work life is our goal, and we do it through hopeful and practical advice, basically on what we would do if we were in your shoes. So we're excited to be with you. 888-825-5225 is the number. 888-825-5225.

I'm Ken Coleman. Dr. John Deloney joins me as well. Let's go to Chicago, Illinois. Michael is there. Michael, how can we help? Hi, guys. Honored to talk to both of you. I'm an avid listener, and we follow the baby steps. We're all out of debt completely. I have a small business, and it's completely out of debt, cash flowing itself. A little bit, my biggest question is me and my wife are struggling in our marriage. We've been together 33 years, started dating when we were 15 and 16. We are married almost 26 years now.

But we've struggled, man. It's been a battle. There's so much. I don't even know where to start. Start with what's on your heart right now. What happened that made you think, I'm going to pick up the phone and give and give these dudes a call well so 11 years ago I had diagnosed with brain tumors which I recovered from had three different surgeries this should not be about me but

so that's in turn made my right wife think okay she didn't know what was going to happen to me, right? So she automatically went into independent mode thinking that she's going to have to handle everything. And so which led to some resentment, you you know here in the past few years and then um she had an emotional affair with uh what guy used to be my friend um and how long ago was that that was in 2022 okay um and then the biggest kicker, I think, for me was the physical activity that happened on August 3rd of 23, of 22, I'm sorry. So that's been a year and a half ago or so. Physical activity, what do you mean? Did she sleep with somebody else?

Well, I think so, but they both deny it. Okay. What makes you think so? They don't deny that there was, I guess, just a lack of trust from everything else that happened before that. And this is important. At this point, you've lost trust. And so when we lose trust in somebody that we're with a lot, whether it's a coworker, whether it's a boss, whether it's a spouse, sibling, we start to create stories about that gap, right? In relationship. We start to write stories and we usually write the most caustic ones, the scariest ones, because they help justify why that feeling we have inside, which is scary and dark and resentful, right?

Right. I hate that for you, man. I'm sorry. Do you still love this woman? You want to stay married? That's just it. I don't think either one of us, the one and two is gone.

So I have a, on her behalf, I have a terrible habit. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. I just asked you a question and you blew by it. I'm sorry. Do you want to stay married to this woman? Do you want to stay married to her? Are you there? I guess my silence answers that question doesn't no it doesn't answer for me because if you say no i don't want to be married to her

then we can talk on another phone call about the how you're going to separate this thing and what divorce is going to look like and what splitting up your estate's going to look like and what sitting down explaining all this to your kids is going to look like. We can go through all that. That's going to be another call. Right. If you say, no, I'm terrified to say this out loud, but I do still love her and I do want to figure this out. We can't be married how we've been married,

but I want her to be my person as we build something new. I can help you with that. Because I've had that conversation with my wife several times over the course of 20 plus years. We sit down and say, the marriage we had is over. I cannot be married the way we've been married, period. And trust me, she's saying the same thing. And so we have a choice.

We can split up or we're going to build something completely new. And we've built something new every time. And it's never not been better. And it's never been fun. It's always been hard. Okay. So what's the answer, Mark? What's the answer?

I'm going to love you either way, but you've got to be honest with yourself. That's why I called. I don't know the answer. And we're scared to death to make the wrong decision. We want to be together, and when we're together, then we butt heads. Wait a second. Wait a second. John's the pro here, but

let me play the dumb, untrained guy. I actually think you want to be married to her. I do, too. I think you're scared to say it out loud. You don't call us unless you want John specifically to jump in here and help out. Am I right? Right.

Are you scared that you want to be married to her and she doesn't want to be married to you? Yes. Okay. That's the most honest thing you've said since we've been on the phone, and I'm proud of you for saying it. That's scary. Yeah. I don't want to be, and I'm proud of you for saying it. That's scary. Yeah. I don't want to be, and I've told her this, I don't want to be second place.

That's right. I know what she thought she had with that guy was out of this world, and I saw it on her face. It's hard to believe. Yeah. It broke your heart. Yeah, and I've witnessed this and just thinking it was payback

for all the crap that I put through her. You know, put her through. Yeah, but there's no payback like that because if you pay each other back, you both lose every time, right? So everybody's losing all the time. The question is... Or the statement is, what y'all had is over your old marriage is over there's a period at the end

the question y'all have before you is are we gonna are we going to rebuild something new and if we are here's what i need because here's what your wife was feeling she was feeling completely dead in her home and this guy laughed at her joke this guy was a little bit funny this guy was a little bit a little paid a little bit of attention to her and her heart started beating again and it took on a life of its own because for the first time in a long time she felt what alive yeah and the question y'all had before you is what do each of us need in this home to begin to feel alive again?

Because I think you'll love each other, and you'll have done a quarter century plus together. And so that's your roadmap back. Will you set these old bricks down? Because you've done your fair share of stuff over 30 years too, fair? Mm-hmm, fair. So nobody's hands are clean. The question is, do we want to wash

our hands off of this hose and build something new? And you've told me, yeah, I actually do want that, but it takes two of you, so you've got to sit down at that table and have that hard conversation. And then if she says yes and you say yes, then you'll have to have some clear action statements about what comes next.

We're going to have coffee together every morning. We're going to say goodnight to each other every night. We're going to check each other's phones. Whatever you all have to do to begin to rebuild trust and to rebuild laughter and joy and aliveness in your home. And button heads is just part of the process. Part of the process. Gear move, my brother.

Gear move. It's for real stuff happening right here on The Ramsey Show. Don't move, more calls coming up. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. All right, so I was born and raised in Texas, and I love the myth of the lone cowboy. You know, the guy who doesn't need anyone or anything. It's a fun story, and it's a lie. In our self-obsessed society, we're obsessed about our own diets, our own workout routines, our own jobs,

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survey to get matched with a licensed therapist. And if it's not the right fit, you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost. This month, start to build your support system with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash Ramsey Radio to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P.com slash Ramsey Radio. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Dr. John Deloney joins me this hour. We are here for you answering your money questions, your relationship questions, and your work questions. 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. Next, we go to Louisville, Kentucky, where Hunter joins us. There he is. Hunter, how can we help? Hey, pleasure talking to you guys. You too. What's going on? I'm just seeking some advice. I've just started a PhD program, and I'm cash flowing that. But at the same time, me and my wife are renting a house.

We want to eventually buy a house and also wanting to invest into retirement. When I'm looking at all three of those, doing the math, I have a hard time being able to do all three of those at the moment. You can't. I'm just trying to. You can't. Yeah. Just stop. You can't. What are you getting a PhD in?

Practical theology. What are you going to do with that? I'm hoping to teach. I work at a church now. I'm wanting to go academic if I can. Okay. What's the – I know where you're going there, John. I've got to ask, what's the income range

upon receiving that PhD? What do you expect to make, or what can you make? I expect, I don't know, $80,000 to $100,000 a year. Have you asked any professors of theology? I have. The one I asked has done it for a long time, and he's in that range, but I don't know where I would start. Not there. I assure you, not there. A hundred percent, and you need to know this, Hunter. Don't take our word for it. I need your eyes to see that John's telling you the truth so that you, it helps this whole financial discussion. And just dig into the – is it a DMIN? No, it'd be a PhD.

In practical theology? Like applied theology? Yeah. Hmm. You don't hear a lot of PhDs in applied skill-based things, right? So all I'm saying is this, make sure you have those conversations. You did ask somebody that's cool. I would actually ask some faculty members who are new because I'm guessing they're signing on for maybe 50,000, maybe 60,000 max,

and they're having to work their way through. And yeah, after 30 years and getting tenure and partridge in the pear tree, you can work your way up. But yeah, my understanding, and I've worked at multiple faith-based universities and several of my closest friends are theology professors. That's a pretty impressive salary range that you're talking about. What do you do now and what do you make?

So I am a youth pastor and I make about 50 55 okay and what's this practical theology phd costing you out of pocket uh anywhere about 20 to 25 000 all in or per per year all in that's a for the three-year program okay how much do you have left i just started about three years john i i want your opinion on this my gut is saying he needs to pick one of these first we we get through baby steps three and then we pick back up i just think with his income and what he's doing and where he's going financially, I don't like trying to do both of these at the same time. Yeah.

So this isn't etched in stone, but if somebody says, hey, I'm going to grad school, my wife actually started going to grad school because she wanted to be a better teacher. She had no interest in being a professor or research person. She just wanted to be a better school teacher. And her district had a program where they helped pay. So she went to become a better teacher and she just kept going and they kept supporting her until she ended up getting a PhD. So that's one route. I'm just curious. I want to be surrounded by, I mean, iron sharpens iron. I want to be around smart people, learning smart things and debating ideas and writing papers. That's actually a lot of fun for me, but then it becomes a luxury, right? It becomes something that I can do if I can afford it.

The same as people may play golf or may go shooting or whatever they do. The second thing is, is this something that's going to pay off? Is there an ends to a mean or means to an end here? So are you just getting a PhD because you're hoping a job's going to show up? Because I'm telling you, higher ed's in a state of massive disruption right now. And what I would hate for you to do is to have a PhD on the back end of this that you were hoping you'd leverage into something else, and it's just a recipe for frustration, or that you're adjuncting four classes at four different schools for $1,750 a class, okay, or $2,500 a class, and you end up creating a chaotic, exhausting life. The third thing is don't borrow money for it, right? And so

you're not doing any of those things, but except for hoping that there's a job here on the back end. So I want you to do some more research on the front end. And I'm like, Ken, it doesn't feel like there's any pressure, like you have to get this done right the second is that right no i wouldn't say so and let's throw in let's throw into this mix that this was all about a house too correct yeah that's all right so i know and i love it but here's here's what john and i are getting at we've got grad school we that we want to do, and we understand, and you need to do more. By the way, we're not trying to talk you out of it. No, I got two PhDs. I love them. That's what you're doing right.

But you've got to know that you really want to do this, and you're okay starting at the 55 or 60 that John is pointing out, and then busting your butt for maybe a long time for that 80. So we're trying to be real with you. That's the first thing. But the most important thing in all of this, of the three things we want to accomplish, baby step three, or excuse me, three B. Did I get that right? Or is it full baby step three? I've got about 50,000 saved. Okay. So we were through baby step three. So now it's saving for the house, correct? Yes. Okay.

So for me, so I'll adjust my opinion here a little bit. I was thinking Baby Step 3, we wanted to get that fully funded, but it looks like you're there. For me, it's coming down to, I'm sitting down with my wife, Stacey and I, and we're going, all right, yes, I'd like to have the PhD. We really want a house. And so we're going to start looking at that situation and we're going to go, which of these things is the more important from a energy and resource situation? Because you were putting energy and your financial resources into the PhD versus all the energy and resources into getting that down payment. And for me, I would be sitting down having that conversation

and going, which one is the biggest priority? We've both got to be on the same page. Okay. How's that ringing true to you? Yeah, that makes sense. I think we're still able to save some money doing some of this stuff. Should I still be investing into retirement accounts during this process?

I don't know. If you're taking a two or three year, like you're going to be in school full time, my goal is that you're going to get out of school completely debt free. And then you're going to be able to start whatever you're doing next. Where this is a little bit hazy is you're opting back into school

with not a real clear destination in mind, more of a hope this thing works out, and we're going to kind of look around and see if there's some open positions kind of ideas. And that's where it makes it a little more hazy. If you told me, hey, I'm going to take three years off, I'm going to go get a PhD in physical therapy. And then I'm going to be making this much money when I get out.

Then I would tell you, yeah, pause everything. Get through that cash flow and then be ready to rock and roll. But there's a very real possibility that you graduate in three years. You're down $25,000 plus any side jobs you could have done in those years. So it's a net, let's say you're down 50 net, and you have the exact same job as a youth minister. And neither Ken or I would say you're failing at anything. You're doing a great job. You're in the ministry. You're making 50 grand a year, but nothing has changed in your house financially, and now you're three years behind on retirement also. Hunter, I will say I agree with John's analysis.

That was absolutely beautiful, and so I'm going to now vote based on how John set that up because the audience gets it. I would not stop investing. If I was going to pause anything and would not be investing, I would pause the PhD program for the reasons that we've discussed. It's still going to be there. Yeah. It's not going anywhere. But you and your wife have this shared goal of a house and that's going to be your greatest investment, my friend. You're not going to be making a huge amount of money. I

wouldn't pause investing. That's where I'm going to go. I'd say, keep investing, keep saving 3B because you can do both in this situation. And I'd press pause on the PhD program. I want you to sit with somebody who has some experience who's not way down the road. Someone who just got a job as a tenure track professor and ask them, is this a smart move for me? So true. Such good advice. This is The Ramsey Show. We'll be right back.

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and your work life. I'm Ken Coleman. Dr. John Deloney is joining me this hour. Let's go back to the phones. By the way, if you want to jump in, it's 888-825-5225, 888-825-5225. And I like to do this when I get a chance to host a show. I always love to say thanks to our live studio audience. We've got a great group of people from all around the country. And so hello, hello, and you guys are great. If you'd love to come watch the show, you can. Go to ramsaysolutions.com. You can find the schedule. And we love to come out and say hi a couple times an hour. So thanks to our studio audience. You guys have been great. A particularly good-looking group of people today, too, John. You know, dare I say, a little bit better looking than the last week's crowd. I don't know. Am I offending people already? May have. Don't even know what I'm saying here, but it's fun. Good group of people.

Good group of people. They're beautiful. Beautiful people. All right, let's go to Andrea now in Kansas City. Andrea, how can we help? Hi. Thank you for taking my call. You bet. What's going on? My husband passed away in March, and I was calling to find out how do I budget and invest the life insurance proceeds to maintain my current lifestyle and give generously. I just really want to be a good steward of what God and my husband has provided for me. My husband was disabled for like the last 19 years and he committed suicide.

Oh no. What was his name? Chris. Chris. Man, I'm so sorry. Thank you. Marge, that's real, real recent. We're still real raw?

Yeah, most definitely. Yeah. We have six kids and 10 grandkids. I've been a stay-at-home mom for 30 years, and I was his caregiver for the last 19 years. Oh, my. Okay, we're going gonna do two things here one there's a ton of emotional stuff here that's real heavy and i'm gonna set that aside for a second for just a few minutes

we're gonna get real clinical okay is that okay okay yes like real sterile um and these are the surreal questions that you can't even believe you're asking in the aftermath of something like this. So how are you financially? Can you get groceries? Are you going to lose your house? Where are you? Oh, financially, I'm fine. How so?

We were kind of Dave Light the last 15 years, I guess. When he became disabled, we were in a really bad situation. We did like everybody else and had a half-million-dollar house and a bunch of cars that weren't paid for and everything. And when he got sick, we were on short-term disability, and so we had to pay for COBRA insurance and stuff and we had, you know, five kids in the home at the time and we couldn't afford where we were living so we moved to the Midwest. So he's been on Social Security since then but we were able to pay off our debt during this last 15 years.

Okay. June 15th, how will you pay for groceries? I have life insurance. How much? One and a half million. Okay. What do you owe in your house? When he died, I owed $1,500.

On the whole house? On the whole house. Okay. It is paid for. I'm just curious, how old are the kids, the six kids? The youngest is 19. Okay. So your kids are old and and obviously with the grandkids you got several kids that are that are doing their own life now yeah um the two youngest ones are still

in college okay are you carrying that or is there college already paid for um they are going debt-free with scholarships. Okay. Okay. So how old are you? I am 53. Okay. So you've got plenty of money to live on and invest wisely. You're going to be okay. Yeah. Yeah.

Are you going to stay in this home or are you going to sell it and move? I'm going to stay. Okay. My recommendation is you don't do anything for a minimum of six months don't move money don't sell anything just sit tight if you can you have enough cash to do that in the bank uh yeah i did i did do two cds just to make something okay Okay. You're going to get itchy and feel like you need to go do a thing, especially as a long-term caretaker. You lost your husband, you lost your ride or die, and you lost your purpose, right?

Yeah. And so there's going to be a huge vacuum, and this is where scam artists and Bitcoin salesmen and move all the money into silver because it's all coming down. This is where they make their money on people like you. Okay? Yeah. And if you have to give the keys to the car to your oldest kid, your oldest daughter,

your oldest son and say, I need y'all to step in for a season because I'm not spending any of this money. I'm not moving any of it. You're going to get tons of unsolicited advice. You're going to get his family members coming out of the woodwork for their piece of this 1.5 million. Just commit. I don't do anything

for six months. I just grieve. Mm-hmm. Is that fair? Yeah. Okay. You're set up to be okay

long-term, but man, you can mess this thing up if you start tinkering with it, okay? Mm-hmm. Do you have a SmartVestor Pro that you can mess this thing up if you start tinkering with it okay do you have a smart investor pro that you can sit with uh nope okay i'm going to hang on the line we're going to hook you up with somebody that's going to help you manage the entire portfolio here um and go from start to finish now here's the emotional side of this thing um i can't help but think with the timing and close to the house paid off and all this,

has he been planning this for a while or is it pretty sudden? I don't believe he was planning anything. Okay. Okay. He had been taking some medicine last year that kind of changed his mental issues. I don't know. Okay. And here's the scary part and the frustrating and sad and heartbreaking part you're never going to know.

So here's what I want you to do over the next few weeks, okay? Have you already had the funeral? We didn't have a funeral. Okay. You need to have a funeral. Full stop. we didn't have a funeral okay you need to have a funeral full stop some sort of marker for this moment with the kids and everybody okay and i know you don't want to and you're probably not going to but i'm telling you right now it's an essential cornerstone part of your healing okay i mean we all got together and stuff, but... Why did you not have a funeral?

I just didn't want to. I didn't want to have people loving on me and hugging me and telling me they're sorry and, you know, having my kids just crying in front of people. I just didn't want to do that. Okay. Well, I want you to know that's a cornerstone of the healing process. Okay? Yeah. And I get it. I totally get it. But in counseling, this is a terrible word, but we call it leakage. Those things will find their way out in your life and they usually come at real inopportune times. Okay. So having some sort of marker or ceremony, or this was his life and giving people

an opportunity to grieve together and cry together and be sad together and be heartbroken and angry and really mad together. All those things is a really important thing. The second thing I want you to do, if you haven't already, is have all of your kids and you, y'all write him a couple of letters. One letter is how much we loved you and how mad we are. Can't believe that this happened. Then the second letter is, dear dad, dear Chris, I i'm gonna miss you so much and here's who i'm going to become okay yes and that's not for today and that's not for this month that's over the next couple of months okay yeah but if you got it in you i would circle the kids back up and bring them home. And maybe everybody writes a letter and we're going to do a small little funeral inside of our house. But crying and being together is part of the grieving process. But hang on the line.

We're going to hook you up with a SmartVestor Pro. We could pull apart this $1.5 million. I want to put you in the hands of somebody who's going to walk with your specific situation and get you taken care of. So hang on the line and we'll get you connected with somebody in your area. Sorry if you're lost. Yeah, we're hurting for you. Thank you. Your better days are coming. I promise. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. Thrilled to have you with us. 888-825-5225 is the phone number. I'm Ken Coleman. Dr. John Deloney is

joining me this hour. Our scripture of the day comes from John 8, 12. Jesus said, I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of the world. Our quote of the day from Coach Mike Krzyzewski of the Duke Blue Devils. The truth is that many people set rules to keep from making decisions. Ooh, there you go. Hey, the best way to make the most of your money is and always will be creating and sticking to a monthly budget. That's why our EveryDollar budgeting tool is the best. Helps you plan spending, track expenses, and save for what matters most to you. It's very easy to use in an app, and it helps you maintain discipline

in a busy lifestyle. Download EveryDollar for free in the App Store or Google Play today. That's EveryDollar. You can get it free in the App Store or Google Play today. All right, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania is where we go next. Nick is there. Nick, how can we help? Well, guys, I've got a, I guess it'd be a career question. I'm glad to talk to both of you. It's like the older brothers, the cool guys. Well, I've never been called cool in my life, so I'll take it. Thank you very much. Me neither. John, John, okay, whatever. Been in insurance for like a decade and a half and recently started doing tree work. And now all I can think about is doing tree work. So my question is think about is doing tree work so my question

is one financially it does make i can make more money doing tree work than i do with the insurance gig two this would be a baloney question is this just like a midlife crisis yes and it doesn't mean it's wrong go for it kid maybe not yeah i don't i don't i don't think it's a midlife crisis at all. It sounds to be like you stumbled into this thing that you may never have realized was actually as nice and as fun and is potentially profitable for you. And it reminds you of being a kid climbing trees and you probably were always an outdoorsy kind of guy and you're going man i actually really really enjoy this but it requires me to put away my you know suit and white collared shirt and ties and i think you're just looking for permission and you're coming up with an excuse

uh are there any signs that it's a midlife crisis marriage is good kids are good health is good so when i was just pontificating did that did that resonate with you well i'm the jump guy like hey let's go do this there's a bridge let's go jump off of it there's a plane let's go jump out of it yeah okay this is the opposite for me to go is this is it smart to jump well wait a. Is it an opportunity to make more money than you're making in insurance? Yep. Okay. Is it more fun for you than sitting in a cubicle or sitting in your office or schlupping insurance?

All day. What do you love most about it that you didn't think that you would love prior to stepping into this? Not that it's every day is a Rubik's cube. So there's a puzzle you've got to solve. And is there any evidence that as a young man, young Nick was the same kind of puzzle solver? Somewhat, but not too much. Do you like being outdoors?

Yeah. Okay. Doc, I don't hear midlife crisis. I hear a little bit of self-discovery. I never saw myself being a guy who cuts down trees when I was thinking about college or whatever as a senior in high school, and I see a little bit of discovery. And I'm wondering, is there a little bit of guilt?

What's he questioning here? I'm wondering if he has spent his whole life doing the safe job and realizes there's a lot of fun and joy and money and laughter to be made outside of that world. I know for me, the idea, I used to scoff at people who worked on commission. I used to be like, what kind of irresponsible morons would do that, right? Until I left the comfort of a secure paycheck, and now I work on commission, and I don't ever want to go back. It's amazing because I get to control what happens next, right? And so you're going to have to carry the weight of, if there's no trees to cut down, there's no food to eat, right? Yeah, there's always trees. There down there's no food to eat right yeah there's always trees there you go you just answered it that's exactly right and in my world there's always somebody to help in kim's world there's always somebody who's struggling with a

job situation there's too many jobs out there i don't know how to how to change there's not enough there's always work out there and so man i think you are has somebody go get them has somebody tilted their head at you or looked at you a little weird when you described this this transition all the parents but you got to go to college you got to get a good corporate job okay that's it there's our answer you know that's working out for everybody yeah well you you called us today and you're asking, am I in a midlife crisis? What you're really asking is, am I a reckless moron from moving from insurance to the tree business? That's really what you're asking because somewhere along the way, either somebody has looked at you a little weird, apparent, or said something before, or maybe even said something about this current transition. Yes, and no one's going to say it's not high risk, but also we mitigate as much as we can. Yeah. But you could get in a car accident on the way

to the insurance office. Or I could have a heart attack sitting at the desk as well. And I love you, Nick, because you know what? If you don't do this, you might very well have a heart attack way early because you're doing something that you do not love. I love the fact that you love it. First time I knew you guys were hosting, I was actually going out to look at a tree to bid on it, and I went, oh, I didn't know those guys hosted the show. I want to call and talk to them. That was a year ago. Done. And so here we are a year later. Go get it, brother. Dude, this is a no brainer. There's nothing else for us to discuss, man. Here's the last thing we have to discuss.

Nick, when you get T-shirts with your company printed on them, I wear a large and Ken wears a shmedium. A shmedium? Yeah. A shmedium. You send them to us. We'll wear them on our respective shows, okay? We'll give your tree service, Nick's tree-cutting service, a shout-out.

Guess who has a tree in his front yard, Nick, that I sure could use your services i've got one that fell down and during the storms last weekend that i would love your services my wife won't let me anywhere near a chainsaw and she's a wise woman oh my wife lets me go out in the field with one not anywhere near the home yeah yeah right exactly oh my gosh all right let's go to rachel in los ang. Rachel, how can we help? Hi there. I'm here in California, and I'm struggling pretty hard financially. I've been out of work for about eight years on disability for agoraphobia, panic episodes, and anxiety attacks.

And I want to rise above my circumstances. I need to get back to work. And I'm really excited about getting back. And you guys get me excited. I'm watching you guys like almost every day. And so I'm calling to find out how do I go about, first of all, mentioning that big gap on my resume and then having to mention it in the interview.

The same way you're going to deal with the agoraphobia and the same way you're going to deal with the other anxieties, which is you run straight through the middle of them. And you say, I've been dealing with personal illness for a long time and I've been on a long healing journey and I am back baby ready to rock and roll and you put a job in front of me there will be nobody who's got more strength and tenacity than I do because I fought the devil himself for the last eight years and here I am baby amen and if they say oh well you're just not then dude as the great Jay-Z says brush your shoulders off and go to the next one

yeah because there's gonna be a company out there really lucky to have you and by the way you're still gonna feel anxious and you now have a set of skills to know oh that alarm's going off i'm going straight towards it yeah no more running for me is that fair yeah rachel have you been cleared have you been cleared by your medical professionals? They say, hey, we believe you can do this. You have the tools. Go after it. Yes. Okay. Absolutely. So this is a huge point. John nailed that. I would go in it with that. And even if you got to have a doctor's note or something, I don't know if that's, I don't think that's out of the abnormal at all, out of the norm. But one other thing I would recommend, this is where your relationships, and I mean acquaintances, people you went to school with, people that you see at church or

some civic group or club, this is where you tell everybody that you know. And I mean like if they just became your friend three weeks ago on Instagram, but you know them, they know you. I would put the word out with pride to say, I've overcome this. I'm now getting back in the game. And just like John said, you run straight into it. And I tell everybody, hey, I could use some help with some personal recommendations to overcome this gap. And if we can get you a job interview where a friend recommends you and they say, let

me tell you about Rachel. She's a warrior. She overcame this. She's really talented. We want to get into those job interviews with some personal credibility. That would also help this. Rachel, you got this. Get it, Rachel. This is The Ramsey Show. Thank you.