The Ramsey Show - App - I’m Second Guessing Paying Off the House (Hour 3)

Episode Date: November 22, 2022

Dave Ramsey & Ken Coleman discuss: Paying off the house vs. saving the money, Getting out of a family business, The myth of a singular "living wage." Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6 Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

МУЗЫКАЛЬНАЯ ЗАСТАВКА Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Pods Moving and Storage Studios, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. We help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, host of The Ken Coleman Show, is my co-host. Thanks for joining us. Sam is going to start this hour off in Houston, Texas. Hey, Sam, how are you? Hey, Dave, I'm doing well. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? So I have a question here.

I'm on baby step six right now, and it's time to kind of pay off the house, but I kind of have one issue. It kind of throws a little twist in there. So I have the emergency fund set aside. I have about $20,000. But I know my HVAC and furnace is extremely old, and it may not have too much longer. And so I was wondering, should I continue to pile money into the emergency fund and keep it in a money market account? Or should I just start putting anything over that $20,000 into the house?

You gotten a bid on the HVAC replacement yet? I did. I thought it actually had gone out about a month or so ago. And that's when they came in and told me that both of them were over a decade old. That was kind of expected when I bought the house. I kind of had to do everything, gut it, rerun everything. But at this point, I've had a couple of issues with the AC itself. And so I'm just not sure what to do.

I know based on the baby steps, I should be paying directly on the house. What was the estimate on the HVAC? I think it was $17,500. Yeah, Paula, you need more than $20,000 in your emergency fund then. You basically need your emergency fund plus an HVAC fund. Yeah, that's what I was thinking, but I mean I could be wrong, but I think the baby steps is just, what, six months of expenses on the high end and that no no no the baby steps is three to six months of expenses for your emergency fund this is really not an emergency this is my heating and air is going

to go bad and i'm saving up to pay for it this is a separate savings account this is like i'm saving up for christmas okay it's different than the emergency fund okay so should i not put any money towards the house until i have uh another 20 kind of put aside yeah yeah you should you should wait on extra on the house until you get ready for this because otherwise we can predict what's going to happen you're going to have three thousand dollars left after you take 20 out of your emergency fund to fix your heat and air because you didn't prepare for it okay right and we don't want to be there yep yeah so we might as well actually plan this and soon and what do you make a year what's your household income

i make 200 okay so pretty quickly you're going to have 17 and you know what i would just go ahead and replace it okay so you would do it before it actually dies yeah um yeah okay because here's the other thing it probably sucks it's probably not very energy efficient it's probably wrong you know ancient you know it's antique stuff on there like you said 10 15 years old which is an antique heat and air and so you can put a more efficient higher seer uh unit on there and you know you're gonna have a better situation in the house a better uh your utility bill is probably going to go down um and you don't have this thing glaring over you this monster just waiting to break at exactly the wrong time and you can't get a worker out there and all that kind of stuff yeah Yeah, save up $17,000 and then fix it. Oh, by the way, get more than one bid.

Yeah. Yeah, I'd say two or three. Sometimes, I'm not saying this is the case, Dave, but sometimes they're not as bad. The report on these things is not as bad as it seems. I've had multiple people come in and look at stuff before, and one guy said, I'd replace this tomorrow if it were me. Then another honest guy comes and goes, you know what what you probably easily got a year left on this and and that gives you the time to cash flow it yeah get multiple opinions on this just like you would on a medical issue

well and and you know multiple opinions about what to put in do we put in a bentley or do we put in a chevrolet yeah you know there's you can hate in their air systems. They can put all kinds of things. I just replaced one of mine. It wasn't anywhere close to 17. It was way less than that. Exactly. Catherine's with us in Richmond, Virginia. Hi, Catherine.

How are you? Hi, Dave. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. What's up? So I am in a business with my family. My grandmother wanted to give to me and my seven cousins a real estate business where we bought different houses. And this happened about 10 years ago.

She gifted it to us when I was in college. My brother runs it. He is in charge of all the finances and everything. And I want out. I don't know anything that's going on with the business. I don't know any houses we have. I don't know. Why do you not know?

Because at the time I was 20, I didn't ask a lot of questions. How old are you now? I'm 30. Okay. That's 10 years ago. You had 10 years to get caught up to speed. Why do you not know? Right.

Well, actually, I was working at a real estate, right after college, I was working at a real estate management business. And I got the owner to kind of help me communicate with my cousins and my brother about um the situation and um i we got in a fight about it and um why did you get in the fight what was the fight about you asked for information on the business on the business that you own part of he didn't want to tell you i asked for the income expense statement. I tried to say, you know, like, this is a business, not like a family matter, but he tried to make it, you know, an emotional family matter. How long ago was that? You don't trust me for running the business.

How long ago was that? That was seven years ago. So what did you do? You just got a little quiet mouse and sat there for seven years on your angst i did i tried to yes i did okay so what are you gonna do now i tried to get my grandma involved what are you gonna do i don't know that's why i'm why i'm calling the show okay so you don't know how to get out procedurally or are you trying to ask for emotional advice on this uh procedurally and how to communicate well about you know i'm a teacher i don't know anything about business really or how to run a business or about real estate i mean my husband and i own a house

but um i don't know anything about an llc or okay Okay. Do you talk to your brother now, otherwise? Yes. For, like, Christmas, you'll see him? Yes. And you just don't say anything? He just has bullied his way and put you in the corner? The last time I had a conversation with him about it was a year ago on a family trip. I was like, hey, hey, how's this going?

Is there any chance that I could see the financials, that we could have this conversation again and have it not be an emotional thing, but as a co-business owner and as a partner in this LLC altogether? And he said, you know, I'm really busy. He owns another business, local business, and he told me about how... Your brother's a turd. All right, hold on a minute. We'll take you through this break. We're going to come back and talk to you about how to deal with your brother.

Oh, my gosh. This is The Ramsey Show. ken coleman ramsey personality is my co-host today we're talking with katherine in richmond virginia her grandmother uh opened a real estate business for her and her brother and her cousins seven of them in total and um they um her brother runs it and has not giving her any reports and won't tell her anything about it for a decade and uh she wants out is that a fair summary of what you told me so far that's correct okay you didn't put any money into this. Your grandmother funded all of it and handed it to you and your cousins. Yes.

How much is all of this worth, do you guess? There's about four or five residential houses. At the time, they were worth $100,000 to $200,000. They're probably worth $300,000 to $400,000 now. Okay. And I think they're about all paid for. Okay. And so your part is a half million dollars, give or take. Possibly.

Yeah, something like that. Are they distributing income to you guys? No. So you've not seen a dime out of it. He runs it. All the money comes back into his management fees, and nothing goes back out to you guys at all. And so all you have is this phantom thing that's happening over here,

and you have absolutely no control over. How old is your grandmother? She is in her 80s, late 80s. Ooh. And she has no authority anymore? She just simply gave it to all seven of you, and she stepped out? Or does she have any say in anything? I tried to involve her one time, and they kind of just brushed her off.

I mean, I think she's old enough to the point where they can kind of sweep things past her. You're not hyper-assertive. As as a matter of fact you're on the other end of the assertive scale is your husband an assertive person he's more assertive than i am yes okay because here's you know you've got three options as i can see it and then you need to decide on one of these three and then quit worrying about it. Drop it. Okay? Okay. Option number one is continue what you're doing and just let your brother run it and just forget it and not think another thing about it.

And someday they'll need your signature. Okay. Okay? And whatever. Just don't worry about it. Okay? I don't like that option. You don't like that option.

That's why you called. But that worry about it. Okay? I don't like that option. You don't like that option. That's why you called. But that is an option. Okay? Another option is scorched earth. And that is you and your husband sit down with your brother, call him for an appointment. If he won't give you one, then you're going to have to write him a certified letter. And your husband can do the talking. And you say, here's what it sounds like.

We have tried repeatedly to get reports from you to find out where the cash flow is going from these properties. You're not doing anything, and you say, we don't trust you. You turn this into this. It's not any of that. This business is being run very poorly because the stakeholders are getting no information. This is an improper way to run a business, and we want out, and you're going to buy us out right now. And you're going to show us the valuations, and based on that, you're going to buy us out right now and you're going to show us the valuations and based on that you're going to buy us out and if you do not do that we're going to

hire an attorney and the circuit judge will force you to buy us out we will disband this horrible partnership that your grandmother put together it's a nightmare now that one sounds kind of fun the downside is is that you probably lose your brother in the process right but you probably lost him anyway because he's a turd okay to an extent yeah no he is no he is i mean there's no question about it i mean he's a complete bully he has pushed you into the corner and he's done that since you were a tiny child and he's continued to do it in your adulthood and he gets away with it he's a turd okay no question about it i mean you've told me like five different ways you've approached this guy and every time he

just stiff arms you and treats you with complete disrespect and you know that's true yeah i like number two dave and you haven't gotten a number three yet yeah i'm voting number number three is walk away and call him and say, I'm tired of this. I don't want anything else to do with it. I don't need the money. Prepare the papers. I'm going to sign them and deed you whatever it is. You can have it all.

I don't want any of it. Screw you. I don't like that one, Catherine. This is yours as much as it is his. I don't like that one. There's a part of me much as it is his. I don't like that one. There's a part of me that doesn't like it, but there's a part of it that it's just life goes on, whatever. It's not her money that's in it. Her grandmother gave it to her.

It's found money. It's not the end of the world. It just depends. Because one way you keep your brother in the thing, I'm not sure you've got much when you keep him. That's what I'm saying. I think you take the bully on and the bully caves he doesn't want to fight he's just been pushing you away and and and no i'm not going to settle for seeing the books now we're too late we've that that that ship has sailed

no you cannot compromise yes you are buying me out or the judge is going to tell you to buy me out your decision you have 10 days. So that's a circuit court? You're going to have to file a lawsuit to dissolve this LLC. And you're a stakeholder in the LLC, and then they will have to bring forth documents that show that you're in violation of one of those and you're not. You're filing for the disillusionment of a partnership he doesn't want that fight i don't think you're losing anything with him relationally either and

and well you're not gonna be she talked she talks to him now he won't talk to her again after that well maybe so i mean you need your cut you need your cut whatever yours is worth and you need to see the books to get your cut you can be you can be you can no longer be um any type of wishy-washy about this you need to make a decision i'm going to ignore it hold my nose and deal with it that's the decision and i'm not going to be stressed about it anymore and then it's not anybody's fault but mine because i made this decision to let these people just run their course that's one number two i'm going to take it on full on frontal right at you we're going to bring the bazookas and we're going to burn this thing to the ground number three uh we're just going to walk away and we're

going to hand you the keys and you can keep it screw it i don't need it. But make a decision. The angst of 12 or 10 years of you carrying all of this relational garbage around this whole deal, it's been so destructive to you and to your brother and to your relationship with him. It's a horrible deal. You need to get out of the deal one way or another emotionally um can i suggest that we sell all the properties and and dissolve it that way well that's not your option the only option you've got it they're going to have to sell something to give you your cut they may all want to stay together except you right. Right. You just want out. If they keep going, that's none of your business.

Right. But you're out. I want my cut. You need to sell off enough properties to pay me my cut, and you need to show me proper valuation as to what my one-seventh is and why. And if you don't give me proof of that, we're going to talk to the judge. Okay. And it's going to talk to the judge. Okay. And it's going to take two years and $20,000 worth of legal fees.

Oof. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, the justice system has nothing to do with justice. Or efficiency. No, none at all. And so I sure hope you don't get drug into that. I hope your brother's not that stupid but he

very well could be kind of sounds like he is so he didn't have time for a meeting maybe he doesn't have time for a lawsuit that's what i believe dave i i think that's why i don't have time for a meeting and not do with his schedule had to do with anyone deal with her he does not want to deal with her he's stiff-armed he doesn't want her input he doesn't want her questioning how he's doing things and i think this is an easy out for the bully here he's gotten away with it for too long yes i think this is an easy out for him when she goes at this he's gonna go all right to jesus yeah meeting yeah he wants to he wants to get done with this i think he's gonna yeah well i question out whether or not he's gonna show her the books to where we get an honest evaluation oh i can make him do that too legally that's what i would i'm a stakeholder

yeah i mean the judge is gonna get involved here if he doesn't play yeah but this is going to require tremendous like a 10x assertiveness took for her and her husband together off of what they have done so far they're kind of like hey would you please uh maybe it's like he's like nope okay sorry i asked yeah you know good lord yeah and you and the other good news is you get out of a family vacation which is always good that's the silver lining here under all this advice hey grandma's out there don't build stuff like this yeah seven cousins it's crappy wow dumb idea grandma you're trying to be a blessing you screwed this up it's like the walton's real estate fund good night jim bob not mary ellen no mary ellen you can't see the books huge swath of our audience

has no idea what we're even talking about right there look it up it's a classic boomer hour this is the ramsey chef Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage. Doug is with us. Hi, Doug. How are you? Good, Dave and Ken. Thank you for having me. Absolutely. Where do you live? I live in Raritan, New Jersey. It's about 20 to 25 minutes north of Princeton. Wonderful. Good to have you. Welcome to Nashville. And here to do a debt-free scream, how much did you pay off? I paid off a little over $88,000. Good for you. And how long did this take you? 31 months.

Good for you. And your range of income during that year and a half? So start about... Two and a half years. $25,000 to $50,000 with the full-time ends, just side hustles. Whoa. What do you do for a living? So currently I work two jobs.

I work as a food delivery driver for Grubhub, and then I do Amazon during late nights. Okay, so you're busting it just to get her done. Okay, what kind of debt was the $88,000? All student loans. Whoa, kick Sally Mae out. Sally Mae is out of there. Done, done with old Sally. What was the degree for? I went for music performance. I didn't necessarily use the degree during my debt-free journey, but I just got sick and tired of just being in debt and just kicked it. Good for you. What's your long-term career

goal? My long-term is definitely pursuing some kind of teaching in music. I know during this journey I got into accounting, so that's something I'm definitely looking forward to go towards but music is definitely going to be my number one passion gotcha okay good for you so what

started you on this idea you want to be out of debt 31 months ago uh 2020 COVID that'll do that was definitely my wake-up call and um even like way before back in 2015 my stepfather at the time he introduced me to your material um It was pretty much like YouTube format. And then in 2020, I started realizing that you had a format through Spotify. So I just went to your show and listened to all the episodes and the debt-free screams. And that's when I got connected to Ken Coleman, John Deloney, George Campbell, and all the other personalities as well. So just going through the journey, it's been like, you know, going through all the, the podcasts and just, you know, being encouraged through that. And yeah, and it was

actually the summer of 2020 that I really started to, you know, stay focused in terms of paying off the debt um and grubhub that was the uh the food delivery um uh service that i worked for and still do and so that was just working that like 40 you know 50 hours a week and on top of like my other job uh for amazon that was really um like the the two jobs that really were lucrative during that time. I've forgotten all the stupid phrases we had. What was it? Shelter in place, right? Yeah.

Is that what it was called? Yeah. So Grubhub was like a lifesaver because people were told not to leave their homes because they were going to die. Yeah. Right. But a lot of hungry people. Yeah, you did. That was a great service to be in.

Very good. How many hours were you pulling uh there were several weeks that was like 50 to like 60 hours for about a little over a year and a half just kept on hustling yeah yeah so just hustle and grind knock it out hustle and grind that's simple my parents were very gracious for me you know living with them i am the stereotype living with my like under my mom's basement so you got you got caught up in that rant a while ago. No, but that's not you at all. You're working.

You're not stereotyped. You're working. Yeah, I was working. You're working all the time. That's right. So, yeah. There's no shame in that, man, especially when you're getting out of debt.

There's no shame in that. Well, and it's a temporary thing. That's right. It's a method out. Yeah, that's good. Yeah, you were not who we're aiming That's right. It's a method out. Yeah, that's good. Yeah, you were not who we're aiming at. We're aiming at people that weren't working, if I recall. That's funny, though.

You were sitting there while we did all that. All right. So what is the secret to paying off $88,000 in 31 months? Know that you can't put hope in the wrong things and i know especially with the student loan crisis and like what's going on with that um you just you cannot depend on the government or just other people in general to take care of your problems i know there were many there were many nights i had to look in the mirror and say that you know i am the problem and the past mistakes i've made i mean i've you've come out from an abusive relationship.

I came out of an addiction that I struggled with for half my life, like 13 years. Wow. And how you phrase it, Dave? How long have you been dry? I've been dry for a little over a month and a half now. Good for you.

Which is very recent. Good for you. That's awesome. I'm proud of you. Good work. Thank you. And so, yeah, it's just, I know my mom and I, we got really connected during that time of just me getting out of debt.

We watched a lot of sermons, like Billy Graham sermons, and just listened to all kinds of like choirs and everything. And just know that, you know, people like me who are single and who think that they just can't get, who can't make it, know that there's hope, especially in Jesus Christ. Because him as my Lord and Savior, he has just done so much for me and my family that I just cannot thank him enough for getting me here. I just could not do it without him. Amen. The strength that he's given me is just, there were nights that i just i i feel like i couldn't couldn't make it anymore and just putting my hope in him it just really it really um it really helped me you've done a lot of work in the last 31 months not just delivering groceries a lot

of personal work well done yeah it was a financial journey for sure but a lot of it was like character development and just you know going in and turns into a spiritual journey spiritual journey as well um during that time actually i did create a playlist um essentially it's just called a debt-free playlist um it's just a playlist to you know get people motivated and just you know know that the that there's hope during this journey so good for you man well done very well done hey we got a copy of total money makeover for you in the live and give bundle as well as the Baby Steps Millionaires. That's the next chapter in your story. Thank you.

I got a feeling you've laid a foundation here during this 31 months that's going to allow you to do a whole lot of wonderful things in your life. Spiritual foundation, a financial foundation, an emotional foundation. You're dry for a month and a half. This is good. It's good work. Thank you. Very good work. And, of course, also we've got a

one-year subscription or one-year membership to financial peace university go through the details there you don't have to watch the cheap youtube you can watch the real thing yeah and um yeah we'll line you up on all of that and you use it or give it away and whatever whatever you need to do very very well done and way to go mom cheering him on and giving him some support along the way that's good that's good work that's not that's not a bad type of support that's not enabling that's um that's lifting there's a difference how about a shout out to to uh billy graham you know a lot of young people wouldn't it wouldn't hurt you to watch some billy graham on youtube you might be surprised that's awesome wouldn't hurt old people either though that well that too yeah i'm telling

you that's awesome stuff. Proud of you. Good stuff, Doug. Very, very cool. Very proud of you. You're a hero, man. Good work. How does it feel to be free?

It feels awesome. Yeah. Oh, man. Onward and upward now. Yep. Is it worth all that struggle when you stand right there right now? It was. It is.

And I just, yeah, I mean, I'm just speechless right now. Good for you. good for you. Good for you. All right, Doug from Newark, New Jersey area, $88,000 paid off in 31 months. Did it delivering. $25,000 to $50,000 income, 60 to 80 hours a week. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream.

Three, two, one. I'm debt-free! Yeah! Wow. Woo-hoo-hoo-hoo! scream. Three, two, one. I'm debt free. That's how it's done, ladies and gentlemen. Beautifully done. Love it. Well, folks, Financial Peace University is on sale right now. We got the old Black Friday special going on at the cheapest, the lowest price we've ever done, $59.99. You can sign up for Financial Peace University. This is the nine-week class that 10 million people have gone through and learned how to handle money, get out of debt, build wealth, be outrageously generous, and get hope and get freedom. Two words that most people don't grasp around money it's possible financial peace two words that don't go together like airline service

so check it out guys get fpu of 59 go to ramsey solutions.com slash give fpu and that's a chance for you to sign up for yourself and or give it to someone else. You can buy as many as you want at $59. They make great gifts to give away. We'll send you the membership, and you can make that a stocking stuffer. Some of you spend more than this on pizza. This is a life-changing nine weeks of lessons. Financial Peace University, RamseySolutions.com, slash give, FPU. This is The Ramsey Show. ស្រូវានប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប� Our scripture of the day, Deuteronomy 4.9, only be careful and watch yourselves closely

so that you do not forget the things your eyes have seen or let them fade from your heart as long as you live. Teach them to your children and to their children after them. Agatha Christie said, One doesn't recognize the really important moments in life of one's life until it's too late. This is true. Blinds.com, question of the day. They have a 100% satisfaction guarantee.

It means even if you mismeasure, you pick the wrong color, they'll remake your blinds for free. You get free samples, free shipping, and with the new promos they run every month, you'll save even more. Use the promo code RAMSY to get the best possible deal. Today's question comes from Thomas in Missouri. As a Christian, I feel like I have a duty to take care of my employees. I have a small business with nine employees. They currently make minimum wage. If I were to raise their wages to a living wage,

then my profit margin would decrease. This is a business I worked really hard at for so many years. I think God would want me to benefit from my hard work now? What should I do? Okay, this is an onion here, Dave. Number one, businesses deal with this all the time. And when they raise wages, they have a decision to make. Do you want your profit margin to stay the same? And so if so, then you have to raise your costs. And you have to weigh that with the marketplace and what your customers will or will not pay. And this is the dance that a lot of small business people have to deal with and have had to deal with and have been hurt from it.

So I don't think it's a choice here between God wants you to benefit from your hard work now and not doing what you want to do, which is pay your employees more. I think you can do both, but you're going to have to square raising some prices or cutting costs in other areas, if that's even an option. This is hard to answer. I want to say that everything I just said, it's very difficult to answer that via a static question where we can't answer a lot of questions. Excuse me, ask more questions. Yeah. the buzzword that's the problem in this is living wage and who determines that yeah well i can tell you who determines it me right that's my point not what i'm saying no i'm the employer here's the thing okay if i pay twelve dollars an hour or if i pay whatever you want to whatever minimum wage is in your area okay

and um a guy comes in and you do a budget on the guy and he has five kids and uh he needs ninety thousand dollars a year to pay his bills and feed his kids um i can't as a christian hire him for that job because i can't pay him ninety thousand dollars to do that job and ninety thousand dollars for him is a living wage because that's what it takes to feed his five kids okay if i have a 19 year old who who lives with his parents comes in and is looking for part-time work and any money he makes is going in his pocket because he has basically no personal overhead and $12 an hour is what I can afford as the employer, then that is his living wage. So this idea that there is a universal living wage is absolute horse crap. There is no such thing because it takes families in different situations, in different locales, a different amount to live. It takes a family of four more to live in Manhattan than it does in Nashville.

So the living wage would be different for a family of four or a family of one or a family of 14. The living wage changes on that, and so what we do at Ramsey as Christians, we have a responsibility to take care of our employees, and one of the responsibilities is not hiring someone who can't afford to live on what we are paying for that position. So you are disqualified if you can't make it on what we are paying for that position, regardless of if you want the job or you're qualified for the job. We will run a budget with you because we care about you, and it is our responsibility once you are here to make

sure you are cared for and we do take care of our team beyond measure we take care of our team that's correct way beyond measure we take care of our team but we do not hire people who cannot afford to live on what we pay for that position yeah and that is our responsibility that's your responsibility so you know well you know we had one lady go well you know based on your inappropriate request for my personal budget information i'm going to withdraw my name from future future employment consideration to which we said people that talk like that don't even work here so we're not doing you know it's great see you goodbye you know don't let the door hit you in the butt you know it's

good you know we don't need you and but you in the butt. You know, it's good. You know, we don't need you. But, you know, but the reason for the inappropriate request of the personal information is to protect you from you. Because some people will take a job that they can't afford to live on the income because they're so desperate for a job. Right. And so, but this idea that there's some kind of generic living wage out there floating around that you have a moral obligation to that's a singular number is absolute horse crap. So you're paying minimum wage for nine employees. Are any of them trying to actually live on that with a family? If so, why did they take that job or why did you hire them into something they can't afford to live on? And that's a bigger question than do

you raise your wages to meet this right and here's the other thing you have to look at your business model and the market and go based on whatever product or service i am selling because it's one of the two this is what the market will allow me to do and i may not ever be able to truly have all nine of them on what would be called a full living wage you might be in the hourly space and that's what you have and thus you've got turnover you have younger people working for it that's just part of your business not a guy coming in today and said a company offered him eighty thousand dollars more to do the exact same thing he's doing with with us and we said fantastic we'll help you

pack your desk yeah it's a no-brainer we cannot we cannot make a return on paying you eighty thousand dollars more than you're being paid now so So you're going to be working at the new place, my friend, and we'll help you go. Because we have to make a return on investment here or the rest of the team doesn't eat. Right. Because their checks don't clear. There's a responsibility all the way around. So yes, God would want you to take care of your team, and he would want you to benefit from your hard work now.

These are not incompatible things. That's correct. Yes. They're not incompatible that's correct yes they're not incompatible that's correct that's the point of it and don't fall into this socialistic living wage crap that was carl marx that was not jesus okay there's a difference open phones at 888-825-5225 jul Julia is with us in Sacramento. Hi, Julia. How are you? Hi, good. How are you? It's a pleasure. Same here. How can we help?

My mom recently purchased a timeshare in Mexico, and she paid cash for it. Gross. She reached out to me and asked me to give her my ID and my birth certificate. No! She wants to modify her trust. No! I don't want a timeshare. It's legalized fraud.

This is not a blessing. This is a curse. Why would a loving mother do this to her daughter? Because she still thinks it's a good deal. She got screwed. No, we don't need to pass this on. This is not an heirloom. Yeah, she thinks it's a good deal.

It's not a good deal. It's a horrible deal. There are no good timeshares. They suck 100% of them. It is one of the worst products ever put out by man. I hope I wasn't unclear. Yeah, you were very clear i thought so as well in my ear he was clear don't make him say no a third time julia yeah just lovingly kindly mom i i'm not interested in the timeshare thank you though

okay i don't i don't i i think they're a really bad deal and i'm really sorry you bought one mom and i think you're going to regret it and i'd never ever ever ever want it in my name no thank you thank you thank you no i also don't want your dog to bite me you know this is like these are let me tell you there's a 97 dissatisfaction rate with timeshare owners there's no other product out there in the world that has a 97 dissatisfaction rate people that buy them hate them they're a complete screw job your poor precious mother got screwed over and hasn't realized it yet and she's trying to pass that on as an heirloom no please no no no

no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no so lower the volume for those notes just for you believe me we all appreciate it just really do that's the gift that keeps on giving there. Good show, Ken. Thanks for having me. Hey, Laura, on the phones today. The OG. She's back. Ben, Zach, Andrew, James, everybody in the booth.

Good work, you guys. Very well. Very good job, the booth people. That puts us out in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. You can find all of our shows with the Ramsey Network app on your smartphone.

It's the only place to listen to the entire back catalog of episodes. Download the Ramsey Network app in your favorite app store today.