The Ramsey Show - App - I'm Torn Between Two Career Paths (Hour 3)

Episode Date: December 18, 2020

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studio, this is the Dave Ramsey Show, where America hangs out to have a conversation about your life, your work, and your money. I'm Dr. John Deloney, joined here with Ramsey personality and best-selling author Ken Coleman, and we're taking your calls about your relationships, your purpose, your work, all of it.

Ken, how are we doing? I am living the dream, as I like to say on the Ken Coleman Show, and our audience can live that dream too. How is your family preparing for the holidays? Oh my gosh. Well, you know, listen, I've got a 15-year-old, two 12-year-olds, so I don't know that they're preparing at all. They just live the good life, you know? They are in the seat of blessing, John. Stacey and I, on the other hand, we still have some work to do.

I'll be honest. We're a little bit, you know, we're those threes if you're Enneagram, you know, the high I's if you're a disc person. And so we've got a little bit of work to do, a little bit of work to do. So this morning. But it's the effort. As long as I come in under the wire. So I've got a five-year-old and a, yeah, an almost five-year-old and a ten-year-old, and they're getting ready for their last day of school today.

Yeah, mine too. And my son told my daughter, hey, this is it. Then comes Christmas break. To which he replied, like the last few months, right, where we've been at home and at school and at home. And it got me thinking, Christmas break is going to look totally different for millions of kids across the country. It's going to look just like last week and the week before and the week before. We've been blessed, you know, at least certainly in our neck of the woods for our kids to go to school it's it's tragic when you see the loneliness that uh and this is not a this is not a comment on on your state's governor or wherever political affiliation

you draw from but the fact of the matter is is that the isolation and the shutdowns and the quarantines uh whether you again believe they should have happened or not, it has been devastating on our kids. Our children. Because we're all relational. But they don't have the maturity. They don't have a lot of the tools that adults have. And it's been tough on adults. I was going to say, they don't have access to the devices and medicine that we adults can tend to rely on.

So it's been tough, but I'm hoping that 2021 is going to be a much better year, for goodness sakes. Just relationally, the world just needs to take a deep breath, literally and figuratively. Right. And start healing. All right, let's go to Cameron in Columbia, South Carolina. Cameron, how are we doing? Is this me?

Oh, I'm sorry, Cameron. Let's go to this camera. We've got two Camerons on the board. We've got two Camerons on the board. I see what you did there. Cameron from Columbia, South Carolina. Yeah, that's me. Okay.

That's you. Sorry, Cameron. Go for it. Yeah, so I'm just kind of torn between two career paths in a way. One of them is more of something with my heart. The other one is more logical, but I could also have a connection to. So the first plan is to eventually become like an outdoor recreation planner for, or an ohv which stands for off highway vehicle program supervisor for like a federal agency and then and or would be like an outdoor tour guide year round but all this stuff starts seasonally which i have not quite gotten

to get and it could be uh five years before I find a more permanent role. And it's just going to be in a lot of these jobs, you know, they're lower paying, they're seasonal, they don't really have any benefits. Then the other route would be to go to do some schooling for industrial mechanical maintenance. And then I would build into a maintenance role for a park or a forest, and I could do that route. Interesting. That's the more stable one.

Yeah, and that's what you were referring to as the combo, where you've got a little bit better pay, better path, but you get your... Yeah, but you're in proximity to that park, and you're kind of around all that fun outdoor stuff, right? right yeah so i would do the schooling here in south carolina i would i'm already about to pull the trigger i mean i've got half the money i'm about to pay as i go and then i'm going to move to the mountain west get involved that you know volunteer for a year i would do a regular job with the schooling right for a year and a half to two years and then after that two years i'm going to find a temporary role

and then i'll just do that and then i'll two years, I'm going to find a temporary role, and then I'll just do that, and then I'll wait until a permanent role comes up. I was just kind of wondering, your opinion as far as, like, does that sound like a better idea other than all this seasonal stuff, which is just going to be a roller coaster, because it is. Yeah, I think that it is a good idea, because you can hear the confidence in that plan. I think you've thought this thing out really well. In fact, a lot of people that call... Oh, I've been on 10 months. I mean, I used to live in Northwest Wyoming. I went to Asia. Yeah. Let me tell you something. It's a

good plan. I want you to do it. I just want to add one encouragement. I think you work your tail off. You get that industrial mechanical maintenance job. And I'm going to come back around in a second, but I want you to work your tail off on that and put the money away and save, save, save till you get to a point where you can make that full-time jump into that work. And you've got a buffer and you've got your lifestyle to a point where you can see a path forward, where you can get in and then climb up but financially you've prepared for this and and the only thing i would say to you is is i would double triple check whether or not you need to go to school to get into industrial you know that mechanical if it

is engineering yes you will but if it's maintenance work i would just double check that and see if there's trade schools and things for that kind of work because you might be surprised. For a guy who likes that mechanical side of things, the trades can pay very, very well, and you get trained so much faster. So I would just encourage you to do a little bit more research because it seems like you've done a lot of research. That's right. Yeah, a lot. So, Cameron, what is it about the outdoors that you love? What is it? Well, I've always liked dirt biking.

I have yet to have my own vehicle. I love dirt biking and hiking. I hike 200 miles out in Yellowstone, Grand Teton Parks, all that. So it's just... I have an idea for you. And then building, maintaining, fixing things out in that world. That's what I care about. You know what I would do?

Dude, listen to me. I want you to really go do some more homework on just mechanical work. You can make really good money being a mechanic. And you like fixing things anyway. And I think you might do a little combination of this dream we've been talking about, this plan, where maybe eventually you own your own vehicles and things like that. If I could do anything, I'd have my own off-road guide business. Well, you're going to.

I'd have my own. Listen to me. Hold on. My own tour guide. Hey, Cameron, you're going to. Yeah. You're going to take this plan, and that's what you're going to go do. You're going to get out there and learn the area, learn, maybe work part-time while you're making great money as a mechanic.

Maybe you work part-time on the're making great money as a mechanic. Maybe you work part-time on the weekends or that volunteering for somebody who's doing it well, and they're showing you how to run the business. Yeah, I'm doing that now at my local HV area. So you are becoming a master's degree student on that type of work. And what's happening is that you are going to learn the process of how to run your own business by watching somebody else do it. And then you're going to use that mechanical work to just stack up money, John, and eventually he's going to start that side hustle.

That side hustle will grow and he'll step from the day job right into the dream job. That's the path. I love it. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. to show. Over the years, I've seen so many families suffer by not having life insurance. It's not that they didn't care. It's just that they didn't know, so they did nothing. That's a huge mistake. Listen, husbands and wives, moms and dads, think about it.

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There we go. DaveRamsey.com backslash store. Love it. All right, let's go to Hunter in Johnson City, Tennessee. Hunter, you're on the Dave Ramsey Show. How can we help? Hey, great question. Thanks for having me on, guys.

Got an interesting situation. Really just looking for maybe some advice for myself and my wife, and then also maybe some hope and encouragement for my mother, who's going through a divorce currently. I'm 26, got two kids of my own, both under two, and I've got some siblings. My mom has two younger children. One's nine and the other is six. And going through a divorce, she's actually staying uh in our place currently uh we've got a

den area uh that we've kind of set up for them to stay um she has no income uh has no access to any funds uh at least in the current uh i don't foreseeable future not sure how long this process is going to take uh going through a lot of heartache. It's going to be a struggle, I think. And honestly, you all have been a huge help just changing our family tree. And we want to be able to help her as much as possible. Don't know what's healthy. Don't know what's right.

But then also for her, you know, just trying to figure out what, how can we help encourage her to move forward? So any advice? Just kind of wanted to pick your allsprings and what you all had to say. I think first and foremost, Hunter, I want to recognize you as a bold, thoughtful, mature 26 year old. And I just want to tell you, I you man I'm grateful for you it takes somebody a lot of courage to invite their mom back home let me ask you a couple of questions here um so you say that your mom's got a couple of other kids I'm assuming that you your mom is not divorcing your birth father is that right that is correct okay so she is living at your house and she's got two little ones with her too. How old are they? They're nine and six. Nine and six. Or seven maybe. Nine and six or

seven. Okay. Why does she not have access to money? Difficult situation at home. She was staying at home with kids, actually homeschooling both of them and uh part of the multitude of reasons i guess that the divorce is uh is coming about is just no no trust and i guess he didn't trust her and and just very controlling i think okay um so never never really gave her access to even a checking account. Okay. Does she have a good lawyer who's going to war for her and those two little kids? Yeah. I don't know how good the lawyer is. I guess there's a free attorney that's offered.

I don't know. That might be a good thing for us to explore. I want you to explore that as soon as humanly possible. There are lawyers that will work on contingency. They get paid if they win, and they get paid a percentage of those winnings. And there are also really remarkable lawyers that step into situations like this. I've worked with them. I've trained them. I love them. And they look for places

for moments of injustice and they step in and they just love getting their hands dirty in situations like this. What kind of a financial burden is she going to be if she's unable to work and is she able to work? I think we're still trying to determine that. I think she had low self-esteem as a result of everything that's going on. So that's something that we want to kind of help address. Before that, Hunter? I think that she could be. Hunter, before the low self-esteem, before all that, here's what you need to do.

You and your wife have to get off site for a minute, whether that's a dinner or a breakfast or a lunch, and you'll have to come up with your boundaries immediately. And what I mean by that is how long she can stay. Are you all going to contribute financially? Are they going to continue to stay with, right? Come up with those boundaries. You all feel good about it. You think about it.

You pray about it. You write them down. And those become ironclad. Okay. Right. I want to throw this in here, John. And, John those become ironclad. Okay. Right. I want to throw this in here, John, and, John, you speak to this. Yes. But, Hunter, I think you've got to set her up a bank account, I think, if we can take care of those kids.

I know she's hurting, but I think her stewing in your house and all this uncertainty and all this things, to the extent that you could, A, Mom, you taught me how to do this. I'm going to do this for you. We're going to set you up a checking account, a savings account. If you guys can put some money in it or her church or people want to jump in on this and get her started, I would try to find her a job really, really soon. I think it will help distract her.

Right, and that's part two to this. Okay, good. She's got low self-esteem. She's struggling. Hunter, she's got to eat. Yeah, that'll make her feel a little better. Yeah. Right?

We're about to hit Christmas break. needs to go to work she has to I wish there was another alternative if you're 26 she's got to go to work and Ken is right less for distraction but she's going to have to start learning after years of being at home how to put her feet underneath her again luckily she has a son who loves

her who's mature and who's wise and who's giving who's going to be's wise and who's giving, who's going to be there to help cushion that fall. But she'll grieve this. And quite honestly, brothers, you're going to grieve this. This is your mom. Nobody wants to see their mom hurt. That sucks. And you've got to have space for you to grieve too, but she's going to have to go get a job. She's got to get a job. That hard conversation, I love Ken's advice. You're going to take her, you're going to set up a bank account for her, and maybe you and your wife decide we're going to put $500 in that account, and that's that.

That's what we can afford to do right now. You're not going to borrow money for this situation. You're not going to bankrupt your family for this situation. She can stay with you through March whatever. And then you call a lawyer that's going to go to battle, not somebody that's just going to sit in line and wait for a divorce is a divorce is a divorce. You're going to call someone and say, I've got a mom who's got two little kids and a husband who's decided those two kids aren't worth eating. Those two kids aren't worth rent.

And there are lawyers who will stand in line for that type of battle. Yes, but I do want to say this, John. I want you to address it because I'm somewhat ignorant, but i've seen enough of it to bring this up the reason that i'm driving this issue cameron that you've got to get mom feeling you know as confident as possible that hey we're going to start a new future i'm going to help you uh guide you you know if you got to get her involved with our ramsey plus whatever you got to do um because i know the lawyer will go to battle and all that stuff john but we've got a friend who just went through a rough divorce, and Stacey and I knew both.

And the fact is he's behind four months on payments, and I know the judge will get in there and say, but sometimes this is not a perfect process, and you cannot rely on a great lawyer and child support and alimony and all that stuff. If you get that, great, but my advice is let the lawyer tear his hide. But you don't rely on whatever the lawyer gets. She needs to become self-sustaining and very independent

and have financial peace and start over. Do not rely. Anything that he gives her from what the judge says is gravy. That's my point. And I fully agree with that, Ken. And Hunter, that's why it's important for you guys, you and your wife, to sit down and have the boundaries conversation first. Because when you lay out those boundaries to your mom, and I'm telling you right now, it's going to be a hard conversation. But when you lay out those boundaries, she's going to lean up against them to see if they're going to hold and you're going to hold them.

And then she's going to have to go get a job. She's going to have to get her own account. She's going to have to figure out how those kids are going to eat. She's got to fight for her and her new future. There you go. You've got to hold her up until she's ready to go to war. Take care of your kids, gentlemen. This is The Dave Ramsey Show.

I'm John Deloney, joined by Ken Coleman. A quick point of clarification. Earlier, I told folks to go get a will, and I sent them to the wrong web address. You meant well. I tried. Your heart was in the right place. It's the internet, Ken. You're like Cousin Eddie in Christmas Vacation, where Clark looks at him and says,

Please forgive my cousin. His heart's bigger than his brain. You know what Cousin Eddie in Christmas Vacation, you know, where Clark looks at him and says, please forgive my cousin. His heart's bigger than his brain. You know what? That's right. A walking Labrador. More like a bastard hound. Go to mamabearleagleforms.com That's mamabearleagleforms.com to get a

will. It's a great Christmas present. Nothing says Merry Christmas like, hey, one day I'm not going to be here, but you're going to be taken care of. It's better than the Jelly of the Month Club. As I keep the National Lampoon Christmas Vacation references going, I'm going to see if I can keep them going for James Childs

throughout the entire rest of the program. Alright, we're going to go to somebody who I accidentally hung up on earlier. We're going to go to the original OG Cameron in Lansing, Michigan. Cameron, how are we doing? I'm doing great. How are you guys? Good. Please forgive me for hanging up on you earlier. No, no, it's alright.

He's new to this, Cameron. All these buttons, Cameron. Yeah, this is like putting him in a cockpit of a 747. He doesn't know what to do. What's going on? How can we help, man? Alright, so I got a question for you guys about a business. I didn't know what i wanted to do i graduated from high school uh this year at the beginning of this year all

right um and i didn't know what i wanted to do i thought engineering because i like the science and and like the mathematics and stuff. So I tried community college, but with the online stuff, like I immediately just hated it and didn't do it. And so it kind of just dropped out like right away. And then I discovered fish keeping, like aquarium keeping, as a hobby. And I think that I, like, I just instantly fell in love with, I've been wanting to do it for a while, but I just got into it just because, you know, why not now? And so I, uh, I've been researching like how to turn it into a business, um, from a

really, really, uh, well-off person who, who has done it and he puts out videos and he like kind of explains it uh but the way he explains it is he explains that you can go one of two ways you can be a breeder and like sell the fish that you breed to other stores or you can start your own store and so i'm kind of like debating between both ways. And the reason is, is I would love to be a breeder, but there's no one around here that I would like my product to be associated with either due to morals. I basically have two options around here to sell the fish to. And one of them, their morals don't align with mine. And the other I feel has a terrible, terrible business model. Okay.

So, like, the next closest one is, like, an hour plus away. So there's that. Who are you selling? Help me understand. Who are you selling them to? If you breed these fish, who are the buyers? Local fish stores. So, like, not like a PetSmart big box chain store kind of deal, but like someone, like, you know, that just is like a mom-and-pop shop fish store.

Okay, gotcha. Well, so here's the conundrum. With the way you set this up, you know, you get one of two options, and there's only one option that you're really interested in. And it also, and I could be wrong, correct me, but it feels like option one where you become the breeder is a lot less upfront capital. And if you're starting a store, that's brick and mortar, and that's leasing, renting, because you're not going to go into debt. And so there's a whole lot of upfront cost, and there's a whole lot more risk. Am I right? Yeah. Okay.

So really we have to fix this problem by going, there's got to be a solution here. And the two local people, let's dive into that a little bit more. All right. The one people, the one group of the people that run a fish store, you just think they're unethical, bad people. And so you don't want to be aligned with them. Bravo. Good for you. No problem with that. But I do have a problem with you not wanting to work with the other local store because they're not bad people. You just don't like their business model. But what do you care?

It's not your business. Do they buy fish from people, yes or no? Yes. Are you a potential business partner in that they could buy fish from you? Yes. Would it be good or bad if they bought fish from you? It'd be good. All right, then.

So don't get all high and mighty, and I know you're not, but the point is don't overlook an opportunity right there, and then I would branch out. You're a young guy. You can drive. If you've got to start building that business out and drive an hour, find two other stores. I say you try it because you're young.

You're really into it. And if you've got to work a day job or two to support yourself or to help fund this business, I say there's no time like the present in this situation because it doesn't seem like there's a whole lot of startup cost. Is that right? That's right. Yeah, I'd have everything I need right now to start up,

like I already got it all. Let me ask you another question that may be really silly, but I don't mind asking it. All right. It's 2020. Can't we not ship some fish, too? You could, but, I mean, there is a— Hey, first of all, are you outside walking the dogs? What's happening right now? I can't even concentrate. All right. Sorry about that. I just walked outside, yeah, and the whoa, whoa. There is a... Hey, first of all, are you outside walking the dogs? What's happening right now?

I can't even concentrate. All right. Sorry about that. I just walked outside, yeah, and the wind started blowing. Yeah, try to stay still and maybe not in a wind tunnel for a few more minutes. All right. Is this better for you? Much better.

So why couldn't you ship? Don't tell me all the reasons why you can't. Tell me, can you ship fish? If you start breeding some really cool stuff you got some people and you beat their price amazon ships everything why can't you ship fish uh i don't know it's expensive all right so i'm just saying look into it i'm not saying you got to do it i'm saying get outside of this i'm limited, Ken, to one person who will buy fish for me. I don't think you are.

If you've got to drive an hour, drive an hour and a half. You're young. I'd do it. John, anything you want to say to that? It reminds me, Ken, of a guy that I bought meat from in Texas. I like where this is going. We'd buy a quarter of beef or half of a beef, and it would feed me and my family for a year. Yeah, right. He's about an hour and a half away, and it would feed me and my family for a year.

He's about an hour and a half away, and he would drive to a parking lot in our community, and he would send us an email saying, I'm here. I'm going to be here tomorrow at this time. Come to find out, he launched his business in 2008, 2009. The worst time to launch a business in the last couple of decades, right? He ended up, on a regular regular basis driving his product to Houston, which is about an 11-hour drive. Wow.

And when the hurricane hit, he was connected with them, and he showed up, and he showed up, and those people continue to support him to this day. His commute has gotten smaller as the word got out about his business. He doesn't have to drive 11 hours anymore. Now he's driving an hour here, two hours there, an hour here. But he takes care of a region.

But all that to say is to get going, he had to put the miles in. He was the only one serving this particular type of beef in this particular market. And he had to get paid, man, and so he hit the road. But that started with a can-do attitude, not a, well, limitation, limitation, limitation, limitation. Yeah, one other thing I did not add in here, Cameron, I got an idea while John was talking, is that you don't have to ship fish. That's probably not a very cost-effective model, as you identified. So I pivoted and I went, all right, who says that you can't sell fish directly to people in Lansing?

There you go. They don't have to go to the Mom and Pop fish store. If you've got, I'll deliver your fish.com. To your house. Please don't go to that website. I don't know if it exists. My point is, you can sell this online, and you can deliver the fish. Right to your house.

I've got tropical fish. I've got exotic fish. It's Uber Eats of tropical fish. There it is. The Uber Eats of Central Michigan fish delivery. We just created a business online right now. That's tropical fish. There it is. The Uber Eats of Central Michigan fish delivery. We just created a business online right now. Cameron, breed the fish, get on Facebook, all the socials, you could advertise for pennies, and start delivering fish directly.

Take on the mom and pops. I don't mind that. That doesn't make you a bad person. Get out there and deliver fish. I'm just thinking, I've never heard of a fish delivery business, a pet fish delivery business. And then I thought, I had never heard of, why go to Blockbuster? I'll just mail you the movies to your house. Yeah, that was a crazy idea, too.

But here's the deal. You want some cool-looking fish in that aquarium, and you don't want to go out and mess with the traffic? My boy Cameron's's gonna drop off some cool new fish he's just raised at one half the price it would cost in a box store oh cameron you got work to do buddy go right now The Scripture of today is from Ecclesiastes 11.6 In the morning sow your seed, and at evening withhold not your hand, for you do not know which will prosper, this or that, or whether both alike will be good. Dale Carnegie says, develop success from failures.

Discouragement and failure are two of the surest stepping stones to success. I can concur. Hey, big announcement, John. Got to get this out real quick before we head back to the phones. Ramsey Solutions, we're working on a special new podcast and we're looking for stories from you. So if you've ever had a bad experience with a buy now, pay later plan that promises flexible payment options, we want to hear from you. You've probably seen these options when you were buying a present online or when you were in the checkout line buying a pair of jeans.

If you got caught in one of these installment payment programs and it ended up costing you a whole lot more than you expected, we'd love to share your story. Or maybe you have a horror story about using an online tax software. You thought you were saving money, but there were all kinds of hidden fees. Or maybe like millions of Americans, you didn't have an emergency fund in 2020, and it really hurt you. Or you've had trouble keeping your New Year's goals during this dumpster fire of a year. Looks like the marketers got a little angry at the end of this. Got worse and worse and worse. Yeah, it's like they were like, yeah, this dumpster fire of a year. That's funny.

And if you hate everybody. Yeah, James, we should get some spiked eggnog to whoever wrote these talking points. But anyway, if any of those scenarios fit you, we'd love to hear from you. Email us at DaveOnAir at RamseySolutions.com. That's DaveOnAir at RamseySolutions.com. All right, let's go to Ellen in San Antonio, Texas. Hey, Ellen, how's it going? Hey there.

I'm so excited to be talking to the both of you. I need your expertise on an issue. All right. Bring it on. How can we help? Well, so, okay. So this is an issue that's a really huge source of conflict in my marriage. So my husband, we've been married for 13 years and my husband has been in the same job position for the last 12 years. And that position hasn't had any change in pay or any change in the responsibilities or skills that he's been doing. So same job. So I believe in him and I want him to reach for more, but he really does not believe

in himself. And so this issue has become so contentious in him kind of looking for a new position that he really won't talk to me about it at all and just kind of become a shutdown. And so I really need your advice on what can I do? Man, there's a lot here. I'll start this way and then Ken, feel free to hop in. So here's what I want you to do. I want you to go at this, like what's the relational thing going on? And then I'm going to give her some tactical things.

Okay. So Ellen, you called us, so we're going to be real honest with you. Is that cool? Yeah. Okay. You can go about convincing somebody that they have value, maybe one of two ways. You can show them success in your home. You can, like we do with young kids, we can catch them being good. We can catch them doing well, catch them being successful. The studies show that self-esteem comes not from just repeating things over and over, but from actual success where you have to overcome and you have wins inside your zone of proximal development, ZPD, right? You can also hit somebody with a stick over and over and nag them and beat them up and say, you're worth more.

You should be making more money. Are you getting another job? Are you a loser? Are you just going to keep doing this and one causes somebody to turtle up and cut off communication because they're tired of getting beat up and hurt the other is empowering somebody from the inside out and from your phone call i can hear the disdain in your voice the frustration and it i i don't know, and this is a longer call. We could probably spend a couple hours unpacking this,

whether you just want more money in your house, you want to be more proud of your husband out in the community, or if you really are looking at a man that you love deeply, and it breaks your heart that he doesn't see the same caliber man that you do, he doesn't believe in himself enough.

And I don't know which one of those it is is and it probably is a mix of all of that but what i can tell you is complaining and nagging and shoving and hitting solve nothing those are never ways to help a person feel more empowered to go seek more value from themselves. And so what we have to do is create an environment in your home, in your marriage, where he feels from the inside out that you love him and value him, that his voice matters, that his dream is not something that's subjected to your dream, but your dreams are some things that you co-create a future together. He's not just living there in your house, in your dreams. How does that feel

to you, Ellen? Yeah, I think so. I mean, him and I have paid off like $110,000 of debt together. Wow, that's great. So I do feel like we as a team have really created a dream, right? Really coming out of a hole and going to something bigger. So what's wrong with him just loving his job? Like what is it about him just going to work that makes you uncomfortable? I think it's the value piece that, you know, since he's taken this job, we have had more responsibilities. We have two children. And the pay just has not changed. And so I do think that there is something about him having earned more and knowing his value has been increased. How would you rate him?

Is he okay with the job, hate the job, love the job? I think he's okay with the job. Yeah, that's what I think. There's things he likes and dislikes. Yeah, does he acknowledge on some level that he doesn't think of himself highly as you do? Oh, yeah. So he does acknowledge that. And we don't have a ton of time,

so I need you to be brief here because I'm taking you somewhere. What is at the core of that? You're his wife. Do you know what is at the cause of him having some self-esteem issues, not feeling like he is worth much? He didn't complete college.

He didn't complete college, so he doesn't feel like he's a contender. All right. So I, you've listened to my show. Yes or no? Yes. Okay. And he loves, and he listens to your show. He loves you. Okay, good. When he listens to me, do you guys talk about what I talk about in the sense, does he ever say, you know what, this is what I'm really good at and this is what work I'd really love to do? Has he ever even uttered some of that, giving you some evidence of what work would look like that he would love? Yes.

What is he saying? What is that? He's really strong in customer service. Is he in a customer service role now? Yes. And that's the work he loves to do? Yes. Okay. So we don't have a massive disconnect here.

There's not a massive disconnect. It's just you think he should be making more money. Does he think he should be making more money? Yes. Okay, so what does it look like? He doesn't disagree. Okay, so what does it look like? What's the next rung on the ladder?

If he's been in his position, what would be the next rung on the ladder at that company or another company where he'd still be in customer service, but he'd be stepping up into a different position, but higher up? What is that? Have you identified that? Or has he? Supervising, coaching those who are in customer service. Does he like that work? Does he love that? Does he love playing the role of coach? He's a little scared. I didn't ask you that. I'm saying if I could guarantee him that he was good at it, would he love to do it?

Yes. All right. Here's what I want you to do. You're going to tell him you called the show, right? The Dave Ramsey show? Yeah, we're going to listen to it. We're going to listen to it, yeah. Okay, good.

Oh, good. So I've got about 20 seconds. I've got to hand the ball back to John. Okay. So what is his name? David. David. Hey, David, listen, your wife loves you. And I know there's been tension here and that's okay because I think you guys are on the same page. You've paid off over a hundred thousand dollars worth of debt. And I know you guys love each other. She cares deeply about you. She wants more for you. She wants more for each other. And I think there's some relational stuff you guys have got to work

on. But the fact that you listen to my show means you do want more, but I think there is some real fear. And I'd love for you to call my show. I'd love you to call me and talk to me. Let's talk about the actual fear of what you're afraid of, of stepping up into a new opportunity. Let's do that. I promise if you call me, we'll engage. Thank you so much for that call, Ellen. And Ken, in another show, in another time, we're going to talk about what happens if you're just okay where you're at. Is that okay? That'll be the teaser

for the next time you guys are on this show. I want to thank Madison and James for running the show. The producer, James Child. Madison filling in for Kelly Daniel. I want to thank my good friend, Ken. Hey, always fun. Have a great Christmas. This has been the Dave Ramsey Show.

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