The Ramsey Show - App - I’m Trying To Prevent This Nightmare (Hour 2)

Episode Date: January 16, 2024

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to miss it at ramseysolutions.com. You need the combo so it doesn't get too boring. There we go. Chris is with us. Chris is in Spokane, Washington. Hey, Chris, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi, guys. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? So I made the mistake of getting into a house with my ex-fiancee, and I just, yeah, I just don't know where to go from there. Um, she, we were in the house for about seven months and then she decided to pull the plug on us and I'm just kind of confused and don't know where to go and how to handle it. Wow. You're a case study and why we tell people not to buy stuff with people they're not married

to yet. Oh, I'm so sorry, Chris. Yeah. You're a case study in why we tell people not to buy stuff with people they're not married to yet. Oh, I'm so sorry, Chris. Yeah. Oh, man, you got a heartbreak and you got a pain in the butt both, huh? Yeah. How long ago was the breakup? About three months ago. Who's living in the house?

I moved out recently, and she's staying in the house right now. Have we discussed when we are going to sell our house? We have discussed it, and we've actually talked to a realtor about putting it on the market, but she would only walk away with about $2,000, which I was okay with, but she wasn't up for just getting back the $2,000. Sorry. Right. Don. Right. Don't care.

That's what I told her. Don't care what you want. You broke up. We are selling this house. Get it on the market. If she won't do that, you're going to have to hire an attorney and force her to. Okay.

I was kind of going that route to see if i could hire somebody to get her on board to do that no i think you call her and go sit down and say look i really want to do this the easy way there's an easy way and a hard way but we have to get rid of this house this house is we are not together in the future and we are not owning a house together in the future we are getting rid of the house now do you want to put the house on the market and let's do this nice or are we going to have to get ugly okay i'll sit down in person with her have a very calm conversation don't bring up all the past don't bring up all your heartache and you're broken everything it's a simple conversation about we are selling the house that we own together because we aren't together

anymore and we are doing that now are you on board with doing that because if you're not this is going to get nasty and i don't want to be nasty. Right. And it's been pretty nasty already. Yeah. Yeah. And so, you know, I would sit down and say that, like, this is the last chance. Okay. And then if she doesn't, if she says, okay, I'll put it on the market, and then she doesn't, send her a letter, certified mail, return receipt requested, so you have proof that the letter was delivered

and saying you have 10 days to get this house on the market or I'm going to be in touch with an attorney and we are going to escalate this discussion. It's going to get really expensive. Right. Because, dude, this is not going to go well if this drags out five years you understand that right yes and that's why i've been that's why i wanted to call yeah who's paying the mortgage uh we were splitting it and you don't live there no this is a problem right and that's why i needed to talk to somebody because i have so many people in my

life giving me different types of advice. And I listened to your guys' show quite a bit. And I figured I'd call and get some more advice. How old are you guys? I'm 30 and she's 27. And you were in the house together for seven years or seven months how long have you were you dating before all that five years wow so that's why it's kind of confusing and kind of heartbreak and yeah oh yeah it doesn't make any sense at all i agree i'm with you right are you going to walk away with two thousand dollars as well or is it not an even split yeah it, it'd be about $2,000 some change each, which I'm okay with doing that, but she didn't seem to be okay with that. Yeah.

She doesn't have to be okay with it. I mean, this is a stupid tax that we all have to pay. What is her suggestion? Well, see, we did want to list it, and then she said no because she would only be walking away the two so she wants to keep it and then try to put it on the market for after two years because then we wouldn't have to pay income tax as you pay equity into a house there's not any income tax if you make four thousand dollars right the income tax is 400 bucks yeah that's what's going through her head see that's dumb show her how math works and maybe

that will help speed this up oh god we're not going to ride this out for two years as you continue to pay a mortgage and build equity yeah maybe we know we we did not buy a rental property together for us to run together that you live in. No, you broke the marriage up. And so we're selling the house. Ready, set, go. If we lose two thousand dollars a piece, we're selling the house. Right. So this is not an investment that we maximize.

Yeah, that was another thing I told her. It's going to cost us to sell this house too. Yeah. You're both going to have to pay a stupid tax here, and that sucks. Yeah, this is a, yeah, wow. I'm sorry, Chris. Sorry you're facing this. But, yeah, you need to, you, being passive in this situation instead of proactive is not going to work.

So I would sit down. I've had a lot of good things happen in conflict scenarios when I can sit down in person with someone. It changes the tone. Keep your voice real low and calm and just say, this is not going to work. We've got to get out of this. You broke my heart. I can't stay in this with you.

We're not going to own this house together. We're going to put the house on the market this week. And if you don't do that, you're going to force me to become ugly and nasty about this, and I really don't want to. I just want to get away from this situation completely and now. And just real calm like that in person hopefully you can talk some sense into her that way without trying to do this but really you i really don't bring up all the old stuff all we're dealing with is a single issue get the house sold that's all

you deal with don't don't don't overlay all the problems and the fights and the other stuff in the relationship with us. Or the things that you don't like about her. None of that, okay? Even if she escalates, you stay calm. Just go, look, one thing. One thing. We're talking about the house. One thing.

All we got to do is get rid of the house, and then you got rid of me. And until you get rid of the house, you're not going to get rid of me. And it's going to get ugly. Don't want to do that. Please don't make me. George Campbell Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America. We're so glad you are here.

Please share this show. Subscribe to the show. Follow the show the show follow the show like the show leave the show a five-star review when you do all of those things it really helps us with our ratings or rankings and causes other people to find out the show is here and we appreciate you a whole bunch of you have obviously been doing that we had number one on the apple podcast last month and that was our first time to hit that ranking. And we can attribute that largely to you guys sharing the show, following the show, subscribing to the show, and leaving nice five-star reviews. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Tom is in New York. Hi, Tom. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Hi, Dave. Thank you so much for having me on today. Sure. What's up? So I'm currently a college student. I just graduated with my undergraduate degree, and I'm now working towards an MBA. And I'll graduate here in about a year from now, so this upcoming December. And I was just wondering, you know, if I should continue to, you know, rent in this area or move back home with my parents who live in New Jersey. Now or when you graduate with the MBA? When I graduate, yeah, because the timing with the leases and stuff for the apartment

that I'm currently in, I'll have to renew sometime this spring if I decide to stay. Where's your job going to be? It's going to be either in New York City or Jersey City, so very, very close commute from where I currently live in. How old are you? Then why would you move? I'm 22. Okay, I'm sorry.

Why would you move? The rent here is very expensive. We'll say the nice thing is I spend I, I spend currently 2000 a month in Brent. Um, but I do live with my brother who's graduated. He's a full-time job. So that's, that's the nice aspect.

You know, I know it's 2000 is very expensive. Um, what will you be making? Uh, my estimate is about 90 to 95. Okay. It's pretty reasonable.

Yeah. But I don't know if it's a good decision to tie up so much of my income into rent just for the sake of not commuting four hours a day or three hours a day. Yes. It's part of life. Part of growing up is not living in mama's basement. You're a grown man with an mba making 90 grand you don't live in your mother's basement okay and that's just part of life i mean and i

mean in new york city 2000 isn't bad dude i mean that's not bad at all yeah well it's like 4 000 but i know right with my brother which i know. I had roommates up until I was married. There's nothing wrong with that. Yeah, and you have a reasonable life as far as commute goes and those kinds of things. Ultimately, you may end up making the decision that $100,000 or $90,000 is not enough to live in the city. It may or may not be. You can decide that later but as your first step following your mba and following getting your new 90 000 job um is not to move back home with your mom no i would not do that i think that would be a mistake

in a lot of ways but uh i think i think it's just part of life man and then you gotta start thinking about okay at what point am i going to where am i going to be living that i end up putting down roots and buying something but you don't have to decide that in the next 24 months i mean just get the job enjoy the ride right now you've done a great job i like that advice i moved out at 20 and i needed some problems dave and those look like bills because i when i lived at home I would spend every paycheck I made because I didn't have any bills. So I was enjoying life.

There you go. Sarah's in Salt Lake City. Hey, Sarah, what's up? Hi, how are you guys? Better than we deserve. What's up? How can we help? So questions first, and then I have some more background information.

But my husband, who's 28's 28 and myself who's 27, we bought a $476,000 two bed, two bath condo in 2022. And we're now looking to start a family. So hopefully we'll be growing out of it sooner than we expected. Um, my question is how should we tackle the mortgage in our particular situation? Should we be solely focused on paying off the mortgage, or should we focus on other wealth building? Do you have any other debt? Yes, we have no personal debt, but we have two mortgages, the condo, and then another mortgage for an investment property that we have renters in.

Okay. And how much is the payment on the investment property? About $1,600. And how much is the rent on the investment property? $1,650. You should sell the investment property. You are losing money. That's shocking.

Why is it shocking? A $50 cash flow is not a cash flow on a rental property. You should know that. Well, yeah, I understand that, but it's more of a... You're losing money. Why would you have an investment that loses money? Because in the future it will hopefully make us money. Okay. The people that do that on real estate are the people that go broke doing real estate.

So you have created a destabilizing, high-risk situation in your life with that investment property. I own several hundred million dollars worth of real estate. I love real estate. I have a degree in real estate. I've been doing real estate since 1978. I went broke in the real estate business in the 80s. I've done it all on real estate, Sarah. I'm a huge fan of real estate. But you've been sold a lie that the future gains in value are worth the risk that you all are taking and how much this is upsetting your current budget situation. Because this house is costing you probably five or six thousand dollars a year out of pocket minimum by the time in cash flow meanwhile you're waiting

on it to go up in value and uh and then you're calling about how to cancel the mortgage on the other side the way to cancel the mortgage on the other side is get rid of your negative cash flowing rental property because by the time you have vacancy, legal expenses and repairs, you're losing your butt on that rental property. One emergency away. Yeah. You know, one forty five hundred dollar heating and air unit, you know, and you're just you're baked. So that's what I would do. I'd get rid of that. As far as the current property that you're in, if you want to get rid of the mortgage on it, that's fine. Start paying the mortgage down out of your income.

And then when you are ready to sell it to move to a different property because your family situation changes, then I would sell it. But right today, you don't have to worry about that because, you know, it's just in the future we're going to have a family. And I Googled it, Dave. Babies can live in condos, turns out. So you'll be okay in the two-bed. You mean Google said that? Google said it. It told me.

Google said it. You don't need a whole lot of room to just put a crib in there, a little bassinet. The baby will be okay. It won't know the difference for the first five years of its life. Says the father of a four-month-old. There you go. I speak from experience now, Dave, as a new dad.

Yes, you do. They don't take up much room. They're so tiny. They're fairly small. My dogs take up more room than they do. Your dogs take up a lot of room. They take up emotional bandwidth, too. Living in my hen, rent-free, Dave.

And very expensive to boot. Yeah, Sarah, all real estate is not good only real estate that is paid for and is not causing problems financially is good and your property is not a good property you're in a bad situation with it i can't stress that enough um i know that's bursting your bubble that you read somewhere that caused you guys to do this horrible deal but that's what i'm here for i'm i'm not a dream killer i'm a nightmare preventer oh i like that there's a difference there's a difference i don't believe in killing people's dreams but if i can kill your nightmare i will and i've owned that piece of property that she owns just like that and it is you're playing

russian roulette with your checkbook i bet during this show we'll take a call from someone on the other side who's been there there's a day i have to get rid of this property we're underwater on this thing we had an emergency and so we just don't want that for you yeah it's yeah everything was fine and we got laid off until it didn't work out on paper this is the Ramsey Show. George Campbell Ramsey personality is my co-host today. He is the author of the brand new book, Breaking Free from Broke, that is on the shelf today. You can find it at your local bookstore at RamseySolutions.com or, of course, at Amazon. Anywhere you want to pick it up.

Breaking Free from Broke, today's launch day on the book. We're celebrating around Ramsey. Congratulations, George. Thank you. It's been a fun morning. It's mostly Instagram I'm checking on. Everyone's posting about their book showing up in the mail, so it's been fun. That's cool.

Very cool. Rebecca is with us in St. Louis. Hi, Rebecca. How are you? Hi, good. Thanks so much for having me. Sure. What's up?

Well, my husband and I, we are big savers, and we are trying to figure out if we can afford an RV. We have been camping for a while, and we want to upgrade to an RV. The RV costs about $110,000. Um, right now our net worth is about 2.4 million. We, um, make, um, about 290,000 a year combined. Um, we are currently on baby step seven. Um, we have about 125,000 left on our mortgage and, mortgage and we do have some rental properties which is what is lifting us up um the we owe about 450 000 on spread across five or six different rental properties that are currently cash flowing so we're trying to decide if we should

pay off our house or the rentals or if we can go ahead and get the RV. Okay. And you have $110,000 in cash? We do. Okay. How much do you have in cash? About almost $200,000, about $175,000. Okay.

And that would leave us enough for more than six months of an emergency fund. What's the balance on your personal mortgage? $125,000. Okay. And I'm 40 and my husband is 41. The way we answer questions on this show is what would I do if I were in your shoes? Okay. You obviously have done very well with money.

Congratulations. You're obviously smart people. You make a lot of money. Dumb people don't make $300,000, most of the time anyway. Okay. Okay. Congratulations. Well done.

Well done. Well done. So I think the way Sharon and I, I know the way Sharon and I would lay this out at our house is we would say, okay, there are three things we want to accomplish. We want to buy an RV. We want to pay off our mortgage. We want to pay off the rentals. Right. What does it take to pay off the rentals? About $450,000. And what are they worth?

They're worth about $1.2 million. Okay. All right. Okay, the slow way to do this is to lay those three things out, put them in some order of priority and then apply the 175 000 minus an emergency fund to that priority list okay and so one priority list could be pay off your home mortgage then buy an rv and then pay off the rentals that could be in order um in which case you write a check today and pay off your mortgage, and then you save up very, very quickly

out of your fabulous income and buy your RV. Another order would be buy the RV first and then pay off your mortgage and then pay off the rentals. That's another order. Another order could be if we want to do this faster, we could pick out a couple of the rentals and sell them. And when they sell by the rv right we thought about doing that um we just are having trouble spending the money we work so hard

to save it it's like a mental block almost even to pay off the mortgage or to pay off to buy the rv does that make sense yeah yeah but here's the's the thing. When you take out a mortgage, you've already spent the money. When you pay it off, you're just admitting it. That's true. That's true. So, I mean, you already spent the money. You bought the house. Right, right. And here's the way. Okay. One of the pieces of information that I found in the last 30 years is that wealthy people, which you are, do a good job. And I'm just going to challenge you to do this, to thinking, okay, what process here gives me the best life 10 years from today, not 10 minutes from today? Wealthy people have long, one of the things that causes you to be able to build wealth is you have long planning horizons. Broke people say, thank God it's Friday. Oh God, it's

Monday. I do whatever I want. I'm living for the weekend. I'm Huey Lewis in the news, right? Right, right. And wealthy people think 10 years from now, what's going to be the best and so that's how i'm trying to look at this i do think you can quote unquote afford an rv when you buy it in the order would be just a matter of wisdom right thinking about the future i can tell you sharon and i would not buy the rv as the number one thing okay we would pay off our house today. The mortgage. Yeah. And then I would probably rearrange these rentals to where they end up. The ones I end up keeping are debt free and I try to clear some money towards the RV.

Okay. Okay. I've got, I've got boats. I mean, all these toys are just toys that go down in value and you need you know it needs to pass the burn test if i put that much money in the middle of the floor and burned it does it ruin my life and it passes the burn test you're you got a two million dollar net worth if you burn 110 000 in the middle of the floor which when you buy an rv that's basically what you're doing okay when you buy a boat well not buy a boat that's what i'm

doing i'm burning them because it's just going to go down in value like crazy i've got a boat i got a boat that costs more than that okay but uh but my net worth's higher than yours number one number two i paid cash for it and i don't have a home mortgage number three i don't have rental mortgages and all these other things but but still can i afford to burn that much money and can i handle that and um i don't think you should burn a hundred and ten thousand dollars in the middle of the floor when you still have a home mortgage okay what's the goal with the rv for you guys they just just occasional travel or yeah we love it we've been camping uh we have a camper now that we're just looking to go farther um it's kind of hard it's a

little bit harder to tow with the family and we thought this would be more fun and i'll tell you i'll tell you what we've done a couple of times and we did it on a little different subject um we thought we wanted a a condo as a second property in such and such a city i won't name the city okay and so what we did was we rented one there for six months and and we went three times in the six months and we figured out we didn't want a condo in that city we ended up not buying in down there i'm really glad i didn't buy a condo as a toy in that city as a little place to go when it's warmer right that kind of stuff right and right and so what you could do here is write a check what we might do if we were in your shoes is write a check and buy the and pay off the house

today and then the next uh for the next two years we're going to commit to budget out of our 290,000 some rv rental fees and i'm going to to rent an RV and put it on the road and see if it's as much fun as we thought it was going to be in our mind. And, you know, am I really going to use it enough to justify this? It might be that you end up doing that. So I don't own a house on a ski slope in the Rockies, although we rent one periodically. Right, right. But we wouldn't use it enough to justify owning it, and I don't want it as an investment.

I'd rather have my investment somewhere else. So that's an example. I would rather rent for the few times that I go skiing, once a year, or twice a year or something, I can operate that property a whole, I can operate an $8 million property for a few, for 10,000, you know, a few tens of thousands a week or whatever it ends up being a lot cheaper than I can screwing around putting $8 million over there on the side of a mountain and using it three times a year. So, and again, that's one of those things we figured out that we don't want to own that, even though we can, quote, unquote, afford it. So what would we do?

We'd write a check today and pay off the mortgage, and we'd rent an RV, a really nice one, and I'd go on a trip in the RV. And aggressively pay down the rentals or sell one. And then once everything's debt-free, if you still want to buy the RV, go for it. Write a check. You'll feel better about it then. Yeah, I'd pay down those rentals by either selling some of them or aggressively pay them down i'm with george on that as a third step it's a good question the answer is yes you can afford one and you should not buy it right now this is the ramsey show

george camel ramsey personality is my co-host today thank you for joining us America three new books all bestsellers I'm predicting that for one of them in our bookstore right now Rachel Cruz's first ever children's book number one bestseller on the children's list I'm glad for what I have wonderful book if you need bedtime stories for the little ones, it's great. Jade Warshaw just hit the bestseller list with her quick read on Ramsey Press. Money's not a math problem. A brand new quick read. It's only 70 pages long, so it's a quick read.

And then George's brand new book comes out today, officially launched. A Breaking Free from Broke. George's brand new book comes out today, officially launched a breaking free from broke, unbelievable data and mixed with snark and all kinds of research to back it up. And he takes on the villains of this world that are stealing your money from you. It's a books out today. I'm predicting it to be on the bestseller list this time next week. I'll take that. Quinn is on the line in Ontario, Canada. Hi, Quinn.

Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi there. How are you? Better than I deserve. How can we help? Hi. Okay. So I am currently a student. I'm 23. I'm finishing my undergrad degree next semester. So by January of 2025, I will be finished my undergrad. And then in the fall of that year, I will be going into a further education degree. So I haven't started paying any of my student debt yet. But as someone who has pretty much little to no savings and wasn't really taught many financial skills. I'm worried that after I graduate and have to start paying back debt, along with general cost of living, that I'm going to end up in a poor financial situation, and I really want to avoid that.

What's your degree in, Gwen? Currently, it's in political science, but my advanced degree is going to be for Teachers College afterwards, so I'll be teaching students. Okay, and what does a teacher, what does someone in Teachers College in Canada make? So during, after you graduate and you're in your field, starting is around $45,000 to $50,000 a year, and it gradually increases. You do get pretty good benefits if you're working in a public school just because you fall under the public sector, which is pretty well covered by the government. Yeah, that's wonderful, but the pay doesn't sound exciting.

No, but it does increase a solid amount. I know it's not a crazy amount, but it's something that I'm passionate about doing. Okay, that's wonderful. I've got no issue with that. How much student loan debt have you got? It's really hard to say for certain. I estimate probably $40,000 currently. Unfortunately, I did not qualify for any aid from the government. It's not hard to say for certain. You have a certain amount you've borrowed. It's an exact amount. Yes.

So I started school when I was 17. So all of mine is under a line of credit as opposed to a loan. So I don't have it under my name currently. It's still under my mother's bank account. So she technically owes all of this debt? Yes, but I will be paying it back. Okay. When you graduate, how much will you have?

Probably closer to $70,000. Okay. $70,000 in debt, making $40,000 or $45,000 a year. Did I understand that right? Yes, about. That would be approximately unless things changed. And it doesn't help we're also in a cost-of-living crisis here. Well, it doesn't help that we're continuing to borrow money. Yes. And so it's going to compound, and making $45,000, it's going to feel impossible to pay this off. You're going to be working three jobs for years

just to clean this mess up as you enter adulthood. Yes, and I am fully aware of that. And your mom is on the hook. Is she not concerned? Because she technically owes us money. So if you can't pay, which it sounds like you won't be able to, you're going to have a real relational issue with mom. Yes, we've discussed it and we are working on it.

She also knows that it's not a great option. Just unfortunately with her income i literally did not receive any student support at all we know that but the but you still made the choice to go down this road um no one forced you to do this so um they so here's where you are number one what i would do is between now and the time you graduate, I would limit the borrowing severely by working all the time. I want you to work four jobs while you're in college. I did.

I didn't die from it, and I still graduated. Yep. Okay. I want you to increase your income dramatically and your hours working dramatically between now and graduation to limit the amount. So let's try to not borrow any more is what I'm saying. You've got $40,000 in the hole right now.

What if you worked enough to pay cash for it all the way out? Boy, that would be cool. That would cut the problem in half. But that's going to be very strenuous. Oh, well, so is coming out of school and owing $75,000 or $80,000. Okay, so we're going to just choose which one's going to be strenuous. So I'm going to do that, number one. And then number two, go ahead and have a plan to do tutoring

and or some kinds of side hustles as soon as you graduate in addition to your job as a teacher because you're going to have to increase your income over the 40 to be able to pay the 40 with, as you said, lifestyle and just the cost of living. So, yeah, there's two things we talk about around here, Quinn, all the time is shovel and hole. The hole that you're in is the debt. The shovel is your income. And we look at the shovel to hole ratio if you call me up and say i got eighty thousand dollars in debt and i make three hundred thousand a year you got a really big shovel

and a medium-sized hole you on the other hand have a big hole and a small shovel and that's what's panicking george and i for you we're worried about you we love you and we want you to win and so uh you know the way you're going to win is you're going to get that shovel bigger and that's your income while you're in school goes up so that your hole doesn't get any bigger. And then number two, when you do get out of school, you're going to get, you're going to anticipate working more than just the main day job. And Quinn, I'm going to encourage you to go watch Borrowed Future. It's free on YouTube. It's our documentary on the student loan crisis. And it will also show

you some steps that will inspire you to continue and try to go debt free for the remainder of your schooling. Because we just see too many really sad stories of people's adulthood being stunted by student loans. And then the parents are calling into the show saying, my kids stopped paying on this loan that my name is on. What do I do? We've just seen it all. Yeah. And I just don't want that for you. You're worried about this. And I don't want you to stay in the state of worry. I want you to shift that fear energy that you've got towards action to do something about it and that's what i'm prescribing here is lots of work lots of work and lots of hours uh during the remainder of time you're in

school and for a short time after you get out of school to be able to clear this because if you can clear all this debt by one year after graduation then you're making 45 000 it's a lot more tenable than just i don't know how I'm going to get this paid because this math doesn't work. That's not a plan. And we've seen the stats, Dave. People who work part-time while in college, 15 to 20 hours a week, have a higher GPA than those who don't because you need this thing called discipline and a schedule. You're not fooling around. You're getting your schoolwork done. You're going to work. Yeah, and the problem with these situations that people face is when you're a student in her

situation, if you're in that situation right now, you're facing what she's facing, which is a pay me now or pay me later. You're either going to pay me later with interest and a lot more worry and a bigger problem later, or you're going to go and figure out a way now to avoid that debt and it's pay me now and that's coming up with um you know an uncomfortable lifestyle while you're a student oh well that's choosing your heart right there it's gonna be hard either way the goal here is not college experience the goal here is college degree and knowledge couldn't give a crap less about your experience, honestly. For your sake.

What an expensive way to have an experience. Just go to Europe, guys, if you're going to blow $40,000 a year. If you're going to play beer pong, just go play beer pong. It's a lot cheaper. You can do it for basically free. That's not what she's doing, but those of you that are out there, not willing to pay a price to win. And, yeah, that's, wow, ouch.

This is The Ramsey Show. Thank you.