The Ramsey Show - App - I'm Unsure How To Pay for College (Hour 2)

Episode Date: May 7, 2021

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🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studio, this is The Ramsey Show, where America hangs out to have a conversation about your money and your life. I'm John Deloney, joined here by my good friend, best-selling author, awesome mom and friend, Rachel Cruz, and we are taking your calls on mom and friend, Rachel Cruz,

and we are taking your calls on anything and everything, money, life, however we can help. Give us a shout at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Let's go to Victoria in Orlando. Victoria, what's going on? Hi, John. Hi, Rachel. It's such a pleasure to speak with you. Thank you so much for taking my call. You bet. How can we help?

So I'm getting finances in order and planning out. I've arranged my active debts in the debt snowball and have been chipping away at that. So in a matter of months, I should be completing my debt snowball. Amazing. Now, I'm trying to – oh, thank you. All thanks to you guys. Thanks. So what I'm trying to do now is plan for two debts that I have

that are currently in collection since 2019, and they've been bought by a few companies between then and now. One is worth about $1,400 and the other is worth about $1,000. So I'm trying to plan to see for when I'm ready to tackle those, what is a good percentage of it to offer since I know that they buy it for pennies on the dollar. That is not too much on my wallet, but also enough leverage to pay it off, but also negotiate for them to get it off my credit reports. Okay.

How much other debt do you have? So with the debt snowball, the credit card debt I have is, let's say, 2001 and then 1000 on the other. So in a couple of months, I should be able to knock that out. Okay. And how much do you make a year? I recently got a new job. So a salary a year, it's about $30,000. Okay. And the debt that are in collections, the two debts, what kind of debts are they? The one for $1,400 is with a cell phone company, T-Mobile. I lost my job at that time, so I fell behind on payments and they brought it to collections. And then the one that's worth $1,000 is from an apartment where I wasn't able to pay the post-move-out costs right away, and so that went to collections.

Okay, gotcha. Yeah, so when you're dealing with this stuff, I mean, like you said, these companies are bought constantly, right? They buy each other, and they're passed to one person or the other, and it's these guys in cubicles with headsets basically calling and collecting this debt. So the truth is, yeah, you can do pennies on the dollar. I mean, I would say to find an amount for you, because they are so, they're such ankle biters. Like, it's $1,400, it's $1,000. Like, it's these smaller amounts, right?

We're not talking about 20 grand or something. So there's a level that, you know, you owe this money. This is debt. And now that you're in a stable position, you can still negotiate for sure. But it's enough to say, yeah, I feel good to offer this amount. So whether it's, I don't know, 300 bucks, 400 bucks, and see what they give you um you can always just throw out the numbers right and talk about it so there's like this this balance in my head of yeah negotiate get it less get it in writing once they agree upon it all of that and then from there though the fact that you have a stable income and you owe this debt there's a level that i'm like man would it feel good just

to pay the debt like you owe the the debt. You have the money. You're working it, putting in the debt snowball and just getting it out and just paying what you owe as well. Do you know what I mean? Like if you were on the brink, if you didn't have a job, if you had multiple debts and collections, big amounts of debt, I mean, all of this, the whole idea of negotiating and all of that, I'm like, yes, to get you out of this hole. But you're working a plan, Victoria.

You have control for the first time in a long time. It sounds like from just the tone of your voice. And you're going to be completely debt-free so soon. So there's a part of me, Victoria, that there's a little bit of dignity to say, hey, I owe this. And I can pay it. This $1,000, I can pay it. You can negotiate if that's what you choose to do. And they'll probably take a lower amount to settle.

But there's something in me, I don't know, Victoria, of just paying off what you owe, you know? That's how I take on it, Rachel. And I love negotiating and haggling. Our friend Anthony used to be a debt collector and he said, call at the end of the month because they're trying to close out their books and you can say, hey, I'll give you this.

You send me an in-writing agreement right now. We'll get this paid. And, right, $300, $400. And then there's the other side, that who cares how many times it's been sold, you owe that dollar amount. And I always like to go back to the dignity. Paying the debt is my responsibility, right?

I'm going to make this payment. And there's something about that, that standing tall, I owe this money. I'm going to don't care i'm paying it too that's not the point the point is i'm gonna pay what i owe yeah yeah so victoria i don't think it's i don't think it's a bad call if you decide to negotiate get a lower amount do it um but also i think thinking through just for yourself and your unconscious and your story of that um there's just power there's power in that um i'm gonna i'm gonna say this because i don't know if i can about i don't know dad's story of bankruptcy he went back years later

okay those guys back yeah and there's something about that and again i don't think he publicly talks about that very often but there's some there's oh he does okay i was like i don't think it's a secret uh but he did because i mean he but it haunted him he didn't know it but there's that there's that i don't know that piece of the morality of man i i said i would pay this money back and again legally you don't have to you know all of that but there's there's something to the soul of money this emotional side of money that is very real and there's a freedom to know i gave my word to someone and i'm going to complete that. Yeah. Even if it's years later. I'm with you. And student loans was me and my wife, we ended up with six figures of student loans a lot,

right? We had a whole bunch of degrees, a whole bunch of debt. And I love the idea of the philosophy of, you know, it'd be cool if the government came in and wiped them all away for me. And I honestly, at 17, 18, 19, I didn't know what I was signing I know right but I also came back to man I put my name on a piece of paper that said if you'll help me get through college whoever you are I'll pay you back and there was a grind and it was awful and we had to do all this but man I get to help hold my head up high saying we figured it out how to do it. And it was miserable.

And I also know there's systems that trap. I get all that. But there's something about, I love that part of Dave's story. That he quietly went behind closed doors, no fanfare, and said, hey, I owe you this money. And I'm going to pay you. There's something remarkable about that. Speaking of, are you tired of feeling stuck with your money? Like you'll never get out of debt or save for the future.

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This is 888-825-5225. Let's go to Kelly in Buffalo, New York. Kelly, what's going on? Hi, how are you? Good, how are you? Good, how are you? I'm good. I just wanted to ask you about the car that I'm trying to get. So I'm in college right now, and I'm going to be finished come the end of summer because I'm doing an accelerator program.

Very cool. And for my job, I need to get a car because I'm doing a lot of, like, transporting stuff. I'll be driving other people around. And I need to get a car because I'm doing a lot of, like, transporting stuff. I'll be driving other people around. And I need to get one soon. I have about $10,000 saved up because I have been school paid off. And I don't want to put all my money into a car because then my insurance will be higher and stuff. So I'm just wondering, like, what do I, like, should I put half of it into financing a used car with low interest,

or do I put all of it into a new one, or do I get, like, a lower quality, just used one with really high kilometers? I just really don't know what to do. Yeah, that's a great question, Kelly. Well, when we look at cars, I will tell you, from the financial standpoint. When people lease cars or they take out a loan on a car, it's the hardest justification for me mathematically to go there. So I'll give you an example. Student loans.

We're anti-student loans here. We're all about paying your way through school. But people can make the argument, yes, but I am getting this loan because I'm going to make X amount of salary and it's going to come back, right? Or a mortgage is the one type of debt we don't yell at you for because real estate will go up in value and it's a large purchase. So the way I look at car debt specifically, it's the hardest one for me to logically understand because you're taking a

loan out and paying interest on something that's going down in value. When there are so many options out there that can be different, aka, like you said, your third option was buying a used car with cash. And I would do that day in and day out. Car debts for me is the hardest debt to hear about because I think, oh my God, you're buying something that's going down in value, but yet you're going to be paying more for it on the back end. So if I were you, Kelly, if I woke up in your shoes, I would take that 10 grand and I would

go and Kelly Blue Book or Craigslist, I mean, there are used cars everywhere. And you can get a great used car for seven grand. And you'd have 3,000 left over, a paid-for car. It's not going to be fancy. It's not going to be beautiful, probably. But you can get a standard, great used car. It will have high mileage for $5,000, $7,000 easily, Kelly, easily. So I would do that in a heartbeat. And again, we're not against nice cars here on the show.

I want you to get a great car. I think that that's awesome. But I want you to pay for it. And in your stage of life right now, I think that kind of car to transport back and forth would be totally sufficient and a very smart move financially. And Kelly, I'll tell you this. I'm surrounded by car people. Rachel's a car person.

Dave, for sure. Anthony. Yes. I just love Teslas. You are. Rachel's a car person. I don't have a Tesla. The cars in my house,

my wife drives a 2010 and I drive an 06. And when my kid, I've told the story on this show, but when Hank crawled into the 2006 truck, because it was an upgrade from the 98 I was driving, he got in it and he looked around for a second. He looked at me and said, Dad, are we rich? I was like, yes, we are, right? So all I have to say is you can find a great used car in college for $5,000, and you can buy some sort of Honda or Toyota and drive it until the wheels you're

going to get frustrated because it's going to keep going and keep going and keep going and it's that's absolutely keep some money in the bank and but do not lease a car there all right let's go to Ginny in Charlotte Ginny what's going on oh hi Rachel and Dr. John how are you guys doing good good good How are you? Great. Hey, I have a quick question for both of you since you are book writers. My mother, who was the most influential, amazing, talented, unique woman I've ever met, passed away about two years ago. And I have this dream to do a series of children's books about her life, you know, obviously inspired, you know, from how she raised me. And I just wanted to get your opinion from both of you.

Do I go with a vanity press? Do I do Amazon? How do I contact an illustrator? I literally don't even know where to start with all this, what goes into writing a book. I would love your opinion. Yes. That's so fun. I, I've had more conversations,

Jenny. You're honestly like the fifth person I've talked to about writing books like in the last two weeks. What a cool way to honor your mom. So cool. I love that. Yeah. So I think in today's world, it's,

it's probably, it's the easiest time to write a book. I mean, 20 years ago, you kind of had to do the traditional publisher's route. And, you know, I mean, like it was kind of harder to have contacts and get stuff made and printed and all of that. But now I'm like, man, there's just options everywhere. So, I mean, in Charlotte, North Carolina, I'm sure there's a local artist somewhere that does drawings,

multiple of them that you can research and look. Google, go on Instagram. I mean, like look around in your area or even – it doesn't even have to be in Charlotte. And find someone that you love their style and contact them. You'll pay for them to do the illustrations after you've written the manuscript. My wife is actually shopping children's books right now. There you go. And so here's her story.

Um, she's deciding between, she's holding an offer right now and she's also in where you are, Jenny saying, should we just publish this ourselves? And I think it comes back to what you want to do with it. Do you want to do a small project that honors your mom and hand this book out to family and friends and maybe sell it to a few people? Of course you want to become the next Shel Silverstein and make a million dollars, but do you want to, do you want to do this and pass it out? And in that case, yeah, you

just self-publish it and get a great cool local author. What do you want to do, Jenny, with it? What would be your dreams for the series? Well, I know I'm biased, but my mother was literally the best woman I've ever known, and I feel like a lot of people could benefit from

all the things that she's taught me and how she raised us and to make it like parent friendly, but also that a parent can read it to kids. And I think it could really explode. Again, I'm biased. Sure, sure. I think it could be more than just like a family pass out book. Okay, yeah.

So what's Sheila doing? When you take a more traditional publisher route, you go to a conference, you meet with agents, and there's a whole process for tracking down agents and sending, there's actually a manual that you can get out to track the agents down, and you email them, you make a pitch for your book. If you go through a traditional publisher,

publishing house, they actually provide you with the illustrator. They tell you what the cover's going to look like, what the illustrator's going to look like, and so you give up a lot of control for the opportunity to have your book in Walmart and Barnes & Noble and whatnot. And so I would recommend getting in contact

with either literary agencies, getting in contact with individual agents, and you can, now with the internet, you can just track them down, and you can find out who's publishing children's books, who's asking for children's books. And then you can get online and learn how to do a traditional pitch letter and have your manuscript and be ready to go that way. Look at you, John.

I learned all kinds of stuff about this. So Sheila's doing a book. Yeah, well, she's working through all kinds of – yeah, she's a way better writer than I am. It's kind of embarrassing that this is what I do for a living. She's so much better at it than me. But yeah, I've learned a lot about how the process works. And again, it goes back. My wife's very similar.

And the impetus for this was how do we honor family? Yes. And how do you tell a beautiful story about folks who meant something to you, which I think is a cool way to do that. Yeah, it's beautiful. When you sit down to write a book, Rachel, and you've written multiple bestsellers, do you have something like a burning message that you want to get out? Like, hey, I got to tell somebody this? Or do you have some ideas that you want to wrap your head around? Is that how you think?

How do you sit down to write a book? I mean, my three came out of experiences that I had had. Okay. So I feel like I kind of experienced it before I wrote the book. And it came out of struggle, like the things that I'm like, oh, the aha moments in life and the things like, oh gosh, I've been struggling with this. So I'm sure, like Love Your Life Not There is all about comparison. I went through a whole season of that.

And at the end of it, I was like, oh, this affects my money so much. I want to write about it because I know people are struggling with it. So it's that. It's meeting the need as well. That's a gift. So you should sit down and write a book to say, Hey, I've walked this journey. I've still got skin and knees from this one. You don't have to do this, right? You don't have to go through this. You're so much more kinder than I am. I sit down and write a book that I got to process it, man. Oh my gosh. It's me working it out in my head. You're a much better person.

This is The Ramsey Show. I'm John Deloney joined here with bestselling author Rachel Cruz taking the calls on money and life. 888-825-5225. Let's go to Nick out in Cincinnati, Ohio. Nick, what's going on, man? Hi, how are you? Can you hear me? Yeah, we can hear you. Great. How's it going? I'm good. How are you? Very cool. I am 17 years old and a junior in high school,

and I am getting prepared to start looking for colleges. And I'm just trying to navigate the best way to figure out how I can pay for it while also setting myself up in the future for financial success. Yeah, that's a great question, Nick. I feel like it's one that every high school student basically has to filter through. What am I going to do after graduation and choosing if college is the next step? And so what do you want to do? Do you have a passion right now for what you want to major in or where you want to go to school?

Kind of what are you thinking? I would like to be in something that involves computer science. I've always had a love for technology ever since I was young, and I'd definitely like to expand into that as a potential career. That's a good career right now. Yeah, very cool. Good for you. People are going to, you will get a job, Nick.

I can say that much. That's awesome. Are your parents, are they involved at all on any level of the discussion or financially? Yeah. So I have three other siblings as well. Two of them have gone to college and my parents are definitely supportive of whatever decision I want to go through. They are also helping me out. They've set aside money for me as well. They've taught me principles on saving money and all that. And they've really helped me out and are helping me to come

to a decision. But now the biggest question is how is it going to be paid for? And I'm just trying to do this in like pretty much the path of least resistance. Yeah, for sure. Well, hold on. I would say the path of least resistance is to go sign up for a student loan and worry about it in five years. Don't do that. Right. Right. Yeah. I mean, passively it's resistant to get me to financial success as close as I can. So go to college debt-free. Yes.

Right. There you go. I'm sure I had to do that. Yeah. So, I mean, a couple of things, Nick. I think the starting point is figuring out, okay, you said your parents are willing to help you some, but to get a dollar amount and to have a very clear communication with, okay, how much are they able to help me in this? And then from there, you can kind of look to see, okay, how much money will I have?

Can I think that I estimate if I work all of this how much I think I can cash flow and school choice is going to be the biggest decision you make on a financial side so you can for instance go to a private school pay upwards of I don't know John what you just pick a number 50 60 11 million dollars per semester whatever you yeah I mean out the wazoo the private school you could go are there some private schools that are really reasonably priced right but it just goes back to that money problem yes question right um you could step over a state line and go you're in ohio uh go to indiana and triple your cost probably pay three times as much to go to that public school versus staying in ohio uh you go to a community

college which will be probably your least uh expensive routes um for a traditional college degree uh do that for a few years all of it right so there's all there's a gamut of the the most expensive to the least or if you know you want to do computer science, you can go to a local community college for nine months and get a certificate. Yes. And get into the workforce and then go to school on the side, go to school in the evenings, go to school two or three days a week and work towards your degree while you're earning money along the way too. And get, you know, going to school for coding. I mean, there's all these other, yeah, these paths on that other side as well. So, I mean, the biggest decision, Nick, honestly, it's going to come down to school choice. I mean,

you can cash flow your way through a community college, through going, you know, even at night or something just like you said. You could even cash flow your way through a state school. You could do that. But I would say for the ROI of what you put into your degree has to match with what you're going to get paid. And the problem is, Nick, is that people just go to whatever school they want to go to. They pay an insane amount of money when they could have had the exact same outcome and paid less for that degree because of school choice. So my biggest push to you is going to be school choice. So community college and state tuition. And then on top of that, I mean, scholarships and grants, free money.

I mean, you can go there. And then working as well. So all of that combined, there is a way, Nick, I promise there's a way to go to school debt free. But what you said at the beginning, yeah, the path of least resistance. I know you didn't necessarily mean that because it's going to be hard. And it is. It's sacrificing and putting intentionality and work and energy for four years of your life. That's not going to be hard and it is it's it's it's sacrificing and putting intentionality and

work and energy for four years of your life that's not going to be fun like it's not fun nick like you're like oh my gosh i want to be doing all this other stuff or maybe i have this dream to go to this other school but i'm choosing not to but you're doing that hard work from you know 18 to 21 so that the rest of your life you don't have student loan debts and you get to do what you want you have options and choices. So there's a beauty in making the sacrifice early, even though it's not fun at the moment, versus having to pay for it into adulthood.

And for students and parents out there, for whatever it's worth, my mom, she's in her 70s. She's got a PhD. She's an English professor. She worked as a, she's an English professor now, worked as a controller in big accounting firms. She started in community college.

I've got a bunch of degrees. My wife's got a PhD and we're all in different things and if my son came and said, hey, I'm 17 and I really want to get into computers, I would high five him on the way to a local community college

if that's what he wanted to do. It would be an extraordinary place to start. I know those professors. I know community college presidents. They are setting kids up to be successful. And I'm a guy that's worked at multiple private schools, right? And if we had the money and he comes and says, that's what I want to do, I'd high-five him there too.

But there's a stigma around certificate programs. There's a stigma around community colleges. And I think they're an extraordinary choice if that's what you want to do. And if they've got a program for you locally, you can maybe even live at home for a few years, Nick, and transfer out and knock off half the price. So as Rachel said, really get to where you want to go and reverse engineer it. We had a debt-free scream in a previous hour that I, she said something that was really powerful, Rachel.

She said, I had this goal to be a stay-at-home mom. And I looked at my current situation and said, I couldn't just do that today. And so she went one, two, three, however many years out and just worked it back and said, that means I got to start living differently right this second. And I think that level of intentionality is something that's absent from our world today.

Right. And so all it's the opposite. What's going to be the thing that feels the best right this second. And then I'm going to deal with whatever happens on the back end. And man, it was just some hard intentionality up front. You can really just shift your entire life in other directions. And Nick,

I mean like you're such in a great place. The fact that, you know, how many calls we get on the other side of the story, right? With all the student loan debts and those questions. I mean, you are in a perfect position, Nick, to make a decision that literally can change you financially for the rest of your life versus paying student loans back, investing that money. I mean, like, like it's just, it's crazy to think what all you can do right now with just a decision to say, okay, it's going to look different. It's not going to be what everyone else is doing,

but it's so worth it. So Nick, I want you to hang on the line. We're going to give you a copy of our buddy Anthony O'Neill's bestselling book, Debt-Free Degree. And while we're talking about books, listen, our famous $10 sale is here at Ramsey Solutions.

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Ten dollars. Change your life. We'll be right back. This is The Ramsey Show, 888-825-5225. Let's go out to Bowen in Phoenix, Arizona. Bowen, what's going on? Hi there. I am 23 years old, and I'm in college right now.

I'm going to trade school for diesel. And my school tuition is about $24,000. I'm getting assistance from my parents through the VA, and that's about $10,000 total, or about $41,000 this year. And I have some debt, and I'm going to have my student loans too. And I'm just trying to figure out if I should be paying off the debt first or if I should be paying off the student loans, because I did have to get a parent plus loan. And so I would be paying off my parent's loan and not through the school. So I'm just trying to figure out if I should pay off the school or if I should pay off my debt.

Because all my debt is sent to collection. Yep. Okay, so how much longer of school? How much longer until you graduate? Well, it's a trade school, so it's only a year long program and I've been in since December. So I got about six more months. Six more months. Okay. And how are you paying, you took out loans to go to this trade school? What was that? Did you take out a loan to go to this year of school?

Yeah. Yes, you did. Okay. Hey, you're making $41,000. What are you in collections over? You're making a good salary. How are you behind on your debts? So I just recently was released back into society. I was in prison for two years. Okay. And so all that debt was acquired from making pretty bad life choices. There you go.

And, you know, starting bank accounts and over-withdrawing and stuff like that. And, you know, things like that. So you're grinding it out, cleaning up a mess. You turned a page. Mm-hmm. You're a brave guy getting back into it, huh? Yeah. Hey, I'm proud of you, brother.

Oh, thank you. So I've been out since November. Okay. And so I've just been working since then, and I'm just trying to figure out what I should be doing because, you know, that stuff kind of really sucks. Yep. It makes me upset thinking about it all the time. But then on the other hand, I have my school, just trying to figure out what I should be doing because, you know, that stuff kind of really sucks. Yep. Yeah.

It makes me upset thinking about it all the time. But then on the other hand, I have my school, and there's no interest for the first six months after I graduate as well. Yeah. How did you get connected with us, Bowen? My grandma, she actually watches your show or listens to it. And then everybody at my work, this is the radio station in all the cars. Okay.

That's awesome. Well, Bowen, yeah, I'll echo what John said. You have an extraordinary story. I mean, the fact that you've had the past and you've come out and you're going to school now and you're changing up your life, I think it's remarkable. And I think you're going to kill it financially. I think you can do this, Bowen. I mean, you're making a great salary right now. So another question for you, the debts that are in collections, what are those debts and how much? So I have two emergency room visits. So those two put together is like $3,000. And then I have a phone debt that's around $2,000 from Verizon.

And then I have some bank accounts where I had overdraft on it. And so I was withdrawing money or whatever. And so there's about another $4,000 total for all of that as well. Okay. And then your student loan is what's left, correct? Yeah. So my parents, their loan was for $9,000 and then my loan was for the rest. And then I did get a Pell Grant, and that was like for three. Okay.

So nine and three, so that's 12. And then my loan altogether was like 11. Yep, I got you. Okay. That's awesome. Well, I would say where you're at, I would, with the income you have, I would love for you to pay off what's in collections. I think that that's going to be a weight lifted off your shoulders.

And you have the income coming in. I mean, that $41,000. What we teach, Bowen, is paying off the smallest debt to the largest, regardless of the interest rate, and paying minimum payments on everything and attacking that smallest debt first. So as quickly as you can get current on the debts that are in collections, I would do that first and foremost, making a plan of that. Since you have the income, we had a call just like this a few segments ago, Bowen, about the fact that the debts that are in collections,

you can negotiate for pennies on the dollar and be able to reduce this amount that's in collections. You can choose that. Or you may say, you know what, I have the income coming in and I want to just pay off the debt. I know this $2,000 here, that $3,000 here, $4,000 here, I want to pay it off. But I would get current with where you can

and then start working on those smaller debts that are in collections. And then once you graduate in December, start knocking out that 11 grand in student loans. And Bowen, I mean, I'll be honest, with the numbers you're giving us and that we're seeing, I mean, your life financially can look

so different a year from now. You can look up February, March of 2022 and you will be debt free. If you stick with this and you do this, you could have no debt. You're starting a completely clean slate financially but also emotionally and with your life. I think it's just amazing.

So Bowen, if we help you out, are you committed to going all in? Oh yeah. I mean, that's the plan. I'm also trying to figure out how to do investments and start different accounts and stuff like that because that's all my grandma keeps telling me.

But that's, you know. Here's what we're going to do, Bo. Here's what we're going to do, Bo. Here's what we're going to do. You've had a hard row, and you got out of jail, and you are doing your best to turn it around, and you put your nose to the grindstone, you started working, you're making a good salary, and then on top of that, you're going back to school.

And now what you need is you need some people in your corner that are going to match your hard work and are going to support you. So here's what I'm going to match your hard work and are going to support you. So here's what I'm going to do. Rachel and I are going to send you a copy of the Total Money Makeover for free. It's Dave's book. It sold millions of copies, and it has gotten people out of debt. But I'm only going to send it to you if you commit to reading it start to finish. And it will walk you through an investment strategy.

It will walk you through how to live. And hold on. I'm also going to give you a year's subscription to our premium product, Ramsey Plus. It's got an app that will link with your bank account, so no more overdrafts. It's going to teach you how to do it right. It's going to keep up with you.

It's got a budget. It's going to have all the lessons of Financial Peace University that you can watch. And I want you to watch it with your grandmother because you're not only getting your money right, you're getting relationships right too. And with your parents too, let's get everybody in the loop on this deal. And this is what's going to have, you can have coaching calls on this thing. It's going to be a tool. It's going to be a one-stop shop from you for the next year as you finish cleaning up this

mess. And as Rachel, I love clean slate relationally with the people who love you, clean slate financially. And then brother, love you, the clean slate financially. And then, brother, you're going to have a credential. You're going to have some new skills. You clearly have work ethic. You've clearly turned things around. And then you're going to be off to the races. And then when you get cleared up, the last thing I'm going to hitch to you

is you're going to buy a copy with your own money of Total Money Makeover. You're going to give it to somebody else who needs it. Okay? Yeah, thank you. All right, so, hey, you're going to give it to somebody else who needs it. Okay? Yeah, thank you. All right, so hey, we're backing you, and now you've got a road of hard work, but you have a direction now where you can go. And I'm proud of you, and we're going to walk alongside you.

I want you to call us back and keep us informed. If you ever need anything, let us know, and we want you to know we're in your corner. I love it. snow and um once you know we're in your corner and rachel it goes man we hear so many excuses on this show so many people call and say hey i'm making 175 000 and i really want this new bmw but i don't trade in my old one and can we you know what i mean and then you talk to someone like bowen who's clearly all right screwed up and then he got up and he dusted himself off. He let other people help him pick him up, and now he's off to make a ride.

It's amazing. I love it. Bowen, I'm excited for you. It's awesome. Well, Rachel, thank you so much for joining us. Kelly, James, and happy birthday, Kelly. Happy 21st birthday. We're so excited.

This is a big one. She can gamble now, good folks. Another segment in the books. Thank you for joining one. She can gamble now, good folks. Another segment in the books. Thank you for joining us. This has been The Ramsey Show. Hey, guys. This is James, senior producer for The Ramsey Show. Did you know over 18 million people listen to The Ramsey Show every week?

And a lot of those people listen on one of our 600 plus radio stations across the country. To find a station near you, head to theramseyshow.com.