The Ramsey Show - App - Investing Breakdown: "Match Beats Roth Beats Traditional" (Hour 3)

Episode Date: December 20, 2021

Home Buying, Relationships, Investing, Retirement, Career, Debt As heard on this episode: Sign Up for a FREE trial of Ramsey+ TODAY: https://bit.ly/3rZTUAx Tools to get you started:  Debt Calculator: https://bit.ly/2Q64HME Insurance Coverage Checkup: https://bit.ly/3sXwUn5 Complete Guide to Budgeting: https://bit.ly/3utmVXi Check out more Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3fHhbVE

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today as we answer your questions about your relationships, yourself, your work, your money, your mental health. All of it right here on The Ramsey Show. The phone number is 888-825-5225. Brock is in Lincoln, Nebraska.

Hi, Brock. Welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave and John. Thank you in Lincoln, Nebraska. Hi Brock, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi Dave and John, thank you for taking my call. Sure, what's up? So I'm 20 years old, I'm recently engaged. Congratulations. Thank you. Me and my fiance are both blessed to have parents who taught us financial wisdom. And we both obviously save and budget separately since we're not quite married yet. But my question is, we both have a pretty good chunk in our savings. Mine's in almost any mutual funds. Hers is just in a savings account.

Way to go. We want to buy a house. Great. We want to buy a house before we get married um but we don't know how to do that since our finances aren't combined yet we don't know if you would recommend doing that a month before we're married or a week or or after the wedding um so that's kind of my question today okay um well you're probably not going to like my answer uh if i woke up in your shoes knowing what i know as an old guy i'm going to tell you to be married a year before you close on the house okay after you're married a year you will pick a different house than you will

out of the honeymoon because you know each other better uh the joke we always use is it takes about a year to know how close to your mother-in-law to buy but it's kind of that's kind of you know we all laugh about that because it takes a little while to get to know some things that we think we know prior to actually living together uh and being married together and all that stuff, but we really don't know. And you've got plenty of time. You're very wise with your money. You can use that year to pile up money and to study the real estate market together, to dream together, to talk about things together, the things you want in a house,

the things you don't care about in a house, whether you want land or you don't want land, you know, Nebraska, right, that kind of stuff. And so, you know, just give yourself a little time here. Don't be in such a hurry. And that one year is going to cause you to make a much wiser decision. And there's a rule in the Old Testament that, like, for instance, under King David, when the armies of Israel would go to battle, a man and woman get married.

The first year they were married, they didn't allow the man to go to battle. And because they wanted them to get their marriage set, to get knit, because they made a better warrior. And this is kind of in that same vein yeah no i i could not agree more take your time man you've got the rest y'all are so smart and so ahead of the game um i'd love y'all to spend a year just enjoying figuring out what y'all just did and how y'all gonna do the rest of your life together man yeah and it's just yeah curtain

hanging curtains can cause a divorce and so don't do that just don't do that in the first two weeks of marriage you know it's like if if you guys have time i have one more question for you you got it so uh i have about 1500 and uh 401k through my employer. And I actually just recently talked to SmartVestorPro, and they recommended not getting involved in a Roth IRA quite yet. But I didn't know if you would recommend any differently. Well, and that's kind of what I was wondering. Why? Why did they say that? Well, he said just to dump all of my money into savings for a home okay but if you're

recommending if you're recommending that i buy a year from now i figured i could same thing though you'd have a big old savings for a home here's the good news okay if you run the numbers starting your retirement plan when you're 21 instead of when you're 20 you're still very rich so you're gonna be just fine you got you know and and you still get a house you're still very rich so you're gonna be just fine you got you know and and you still get a house you're very very rich because you started so stinking early and if you get a house and all the 40 year olds said yes that you both like oh man you're gonna be rich both relationally and financially man yeah just take your time move through this steady slow and steady wins the race slow and steady wins the race just keep a rhythm and you've got such a really wise start on this so just very very very well done

good question sir congratulations on the engagement tom is with us in grand rapids michigan hey tom welcome to the ramsey show what a a pleasure, Dave. Yeah, something happened today. My wife just got a check, an inheritance, and some is in a beneficiary IRA, and the rest is in an inheritance. But she just got a lump sum check today, and we put it in the bank, but we need to have some guidance. How much? $160,000.

Wow. Nice. Who passed away? Well, her aunt and uncle. Oh, my goodness. The proverbial rich uncle. We've all heard about him. You actually had one yeah

oh my gosh she's uh yeah i'm sad but it happened uh well almost uh over a year ago okay wow well here's the thing gosh that's wonderful um sorry that he passed but it's wonderful you guys got an inheritance we would use it on wherever you guys are in the baby steps. Have you ever heard of the baby steps? Yes, yes. I've listened to you for a long time. So do you have any debt? A long time.

We owe $68,000 on our home. Not today. You're debt-free today. You're debt-free today, brother. Got any other debt? Excuse me? You got any other debt? Any other debt?

No, we don't. That's it. Good. Okay. So I pay off my house today. That puts you in baby step seven. The rest of the money, there are three things you should always do with money, and you should always label any money that comes in. Give it a name. Give it a label, a mission, okay? And it needs to fall in

one of these three categories, and I always recommend trying to do a little bit of all three categories. You need to enjoy some of it. That's splurge or lifestyle or whatever you want to call it. Number two, you need to invest some of it. And number three, you need to be generous with some of it. And I suspect that if you reasonably enjoyed some of the money, your house was debt-free, and you reasonably were generous with someone and you reasonably invested some of it, that her uncle would be smiling from heaven saying, I'm sure glad I left that smart one some money. Yeah.

How cool is that? I'm just thinking if I was an uncle and I passed away and the money that I had saved to steward was, I gave it to one of my nieces or nephews and they steward it by paying off their debt and being able to give. Oh, my gosh, man. That's it. Why have legacy if not for that, right? Yeah. Anytime you get an inheritance, if you kind of, most of the time, I mean, it depends on who left it,

but most of the time you think about what would make that person smile. Generally, that's going to lead you towards wisdom. Yeah. This is The Ramsey Show. I saw some recent financial statistics and there was some pretty troubling news. When families were asked how long it would be before they faced financial hardship if a spouse died, nearly one-third said they'd be in trouble immediately. Another 44% said they'd be financially drained within six months. People, it does not have to be this way. Term life insurance plans are just plain cheap, and companies have made it even easier by not

requiring exams in many cases. There really is no excuse to leave your family in this situation by not having life insurance. This is why I talk about Zander Insurance every day. They're committed to protecting families with the only products that I recommend, and their team keeps the entire process simple and affordable. Go to Zander.com for quick online pricing or call 800-356-4282. This has to be a priority. If your family is in this situation, is my co-host today.

You know, you can't turn on your television, your radio, open your news feed without hearing the latest and greatest plan to get rich quick. Crypto, nothing down, real estate, single stocks, NFTs, everybody's talking about an easy way to get rich. Well, I got great news for those of you that want to build wealth. We have a huge event on Thursday, January the 13th called Building Wealth 2022. Rachel Cruz, George Campbell, and I are going to make sense of all the get rich quick noise out there and show you how to really build real wealth in 2022. And we've already sold out of in-person tickets. Over 1,000 folks are coming. And we're offering a free live stream. And if you don't want to miss out on the free live stream, we would suggest you register to get signed up for it.

RamseySolutions.com slash wealth and register for a free live stream of our Building Wealth event coming January the 13th. Stu's with us in Kansas City. Hi, Stu. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. I'll try to get right to the point.

I have a simple IRA through my company, and traditionally it's been a 3% max, so I put 3% in that account. I have an emergency fund. I have a small family with a $120,000 salary. My wife stays at home with our children. I've only been putting 3% into that simple IRA because I've been in the background saving for a down payment on a home, and I've about achieved that by, say, April or May of this year. Cool. My question for you is, thank you. My question is, I want to now bump my investments up to 15%

or more in my take home. But the real question is, my company has grown and we're now switching to a 401k instead of this simple IRA. And the match has also changed. So instead of three for three, it's you put in six, you get three. So my question for you is, Dave, do I put in that 6%? And if I do, should I do it pre-tax or Roth? And then where do I go? And what's your best recommendation on the other percentages to get to 15 or 20 in this situation? And please ask for more details. Thank you, Dave.

Great question. You've really outlined your situation beautifully. Thank you. You've really thought through this. Thank you, sir. Okay, here's the rule, and then let me tell you why the rule works, and so you'll know what to do on your own without me. That's the whole idea here.

Rock, paper, scissors. Match beats Roth beats traditional. Okay? In other words, so the way we would fill out your plan is we're going to do as much match as we can, so we're going to do your 6%. The match, by the way way is always in traditional but you can do a roth 401k but the portion they give you to match is always in the traditional side and you have to move it over to the roth ever so often if you want to and pay the taxes on it at that point but match okay beats roth beats traditional. So we would do your 6%, and then if that's a Roth 401k,

the new one they've got, then I would select Roth for your 401k for your match. And if you want to just keep going in there until you get to 15%, that's fine. If you can't get to 15% in the 401k, or if your 401k only has traditional available, match beats Roth beats traditional. So we would go to do an individual Roth for $6,000 in good mutual funds before we did traditional. Now, why does match beat Roth, and why does Roth beat traditional? That's the question. Dave, I just want to ask you.

The company plan offered both traditional and Roth. Good, you want Roth. You want Roth. Okay. But their match portion by law has to be in traditional. They cannot match you in the Roth, meaning you can put in Roth, you can put in Roth, but the portion they give you has not had taxes paid on it and will grow taxable, the portion that they give you.

Okay? So the reason Match beats Roth is Roth grows tax-free at the rate of the mutual fund. Okay? So let's say your mutual fund does 10%, and that's tax-free, right? Match, I just told you, is going to be taxable, but it's 100%. Because you put in $2,000, or you put in 6%, and they matched it. They gave you free money. So free money, even after you pay the taxes on it, is more than just tax-free.

Does that make sense? Yes, sir. So you always want to get all the match you can get before you do anything else. Once you've gotten the match, then tax-free Roth beats traditional. Here's why. Let's say we're putting in $100 a month from age 25 to age 65, and it grows to a million dollars, which is about what it would do. Okay? And so if you've got a million dollars in a Roth, there's zero taxes on it.

You've got a million dollars in traditional, same hundred bucks a month, same mutual funds, grew the same exact amount, one of them's taxable, one of them's not. So you got a million dollars in a Roth or you got a million dollars in traditional? The million dollars in the Roth has zero taxes. The million dollars in the traditional is taxed, so $250,000 of it's going to taxes. Okay. So after taxes, your traditional traditional 75 cents on the dollar and your roth is 100 cents on the dollar and your match is 120 cents on the dollar

okay match beats roth beats traditional so you want to do all the match you can do then all the roth you can do and then if you still hadn't gotten to 15 then you would do some traditional and only then but there's no traditional that beats roth and you just dump that in the traditional if they had to open for the match yeah you just put it in that same account yeah yeah yeah you just you open a roth 401k they give you match that match portion is has to be taxable by law. Now, what I do here, for those of you that are in Baby Step 7 and that kind of thing, is I – it's weird. I own the company, so I match myself. It's just stupid.

That's nice of you. Yeah, it's sweet of me. I like me. But the – so I've got a real good benefits plan for me. It's all about me. But, yeah, I'm an employee, technically. So I match myself, i i and i have to do the same thing and then once a year right now as a matter of fact i notify the broker that

manages our 401k and they move i can roll that matching portion from traditional into roth which makes it taxable so i have to pay taxes on that amount of money then but from this point forward it grows tax-free. Gotcha. And at 61, it's starting to be questionable whether I need to do that or not, except I will never touch that money. So it will be left to the beneficiaries. It wouldn't be left to me because I'll never use that money. I don't need any of that money because I've got other money.

But if you're going to need the money, it starts to be questionable in your late 60s whether you do Roth or traditional. But before your late 60s, it's all Roth. Tax-free growth. Khalif is with us. Khalif is in Durham, North Carolina. Hi, Khalif. How are you?

Hey, babe. I'm doing good. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. Right quick, what's your question? Yes, sir. So I went from taking a semester off of school and working a nine-to-five that was really only giving me like $11 an hour and like 11 hours a week

to getting two jobs, both paying around $20 an hour. I'm trying to decide if I am able to take both because one has an hour commute. I don't know if that's the smart thing to do. No. But I do know that. Okay. Not worth your time.

It's two hours a day, yeah. You're losing more money than you're making, and you're burning gas and tearing up your car. Do something else. Yeah. Yeah, you need something close. It's a part-time job, man. It's not a career choice.

You're trying to net money when the smoke clears. Yeah, you love this job? The two jobs that I got, that's my old job that I was talking about. The two jobs that I got are both, it gives me $20 an hour, and they're both paying $40 a week regardless. One is $20 an hour, and they're both paying $40 a week regardless. One is $20 an hour, and the one that's close to me is $20 an hour,

$40 hours a week. And then the one that's an hour drive is $26 an hour and $40 hours a week. So you have 80 hours a week booked? Yes, pretty much. You are a working man. Well, if you're getting – especially if you can lump up some of those hours and not have i wouldn't drive an hour and then work two hours and then drive an hour back that's not going to make sense but if you're going to get in full lengths of time maybe i'll

maybe i would withdraw my answer and say yeah do it you are working like a crazy man get after it effort. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage. Joe and Heidi are with us. Hey, guys, how are you? Good. We're doing great. Thank you. Thanks for having us.

Absolutely. Where do you guys live? Fostoria, Ohio. It's about 30 miles south of Toledo. Oh, wow. Okay, cool. Well, a pleasure to have you. Thank you.

We had some folks from Bowling Green down there today. Very close. Right there by you. Yeah, very cool. Hey, good to have you guys. How much debt have you paid off? $121,948. And we also cash flowed $90,000 during that time, during the journey. Wow. And how long did this take? Four years and 10 months. Okay. And what was your range of income during this time? We started out at $139,000 and dropped to $112,000.

Okay. What do you all do for a living? Oh, I am a call center operator for a hospital. And I'm a registered nurse. I'm a nurse manager at an assisted living. Okay. Very cool. I bet you both see and hear a lot of things, huh?

Oh, yes. Wow. Yes. I've been through a lot the last couple of years. Yeah. Very cool. I bet you both see and hear a lot of things, huh? Oh, yes. Been through a lot the last couple years. Really interesting. Yes, very. So what kind of debt was this $122,000? So there was credit cards, medical bills, truck.

Our equity loan? The home equity loan. Home equity loan was the bigger piece of it and then the rest was our mortgage oh you paid off your house we did yes look at it weird people what's the house worth uh around 175 000 all right very nice and it's all yours it is no matter what happens it's yours wow way. Way to go, guys. Okay. What started this journey four years and ten months ago?

Well, it kind of started about ten years ago. I had listened to you on the radio, and I had bought your book. I took it home, told Joe about it, and he was like, yeah, okay, I'll read it later. Come on, Joe. I know, right? We could have done it so much sooner. Put it on the coffee table. It's a great coaster.

Right, exactly. So then when we got started, I saw the book sitting on the table. I'm like, well, that's interesting. I don't even remember her bringing this up to me. Been there six years. Yeah, yeah. So it looked interesting. I picked it up.

I started reading it. I finished it, and I like, you know, it was the, okay, we got to get our act together and get in gear because our kids are going to be graduating high school, going to college, and whatever else is coming our way. So we needed to get going. Wow. Very cool. So it's just a wake-up call and you're just looking around going, we're not doing as good as we ought to be doing, and oh, here's a way to do it.

Exactly. That simple. So the Total Money Makeover book was it. Yep. And it was a huge blessing because shortly after we started the journey, the reason that our income went down is that Joe got downsized. So it was a huge blessing. I like being downsized better than right-sized. Right-sized implies it was wrong that I was here.

Down is like you moved down after me. I like that better. That's just better terminology. Oh, my gosh. Who had the conversation with who? Who sat down and said, hey, I was gentle about this book for five or six years. It's time to get after it. I think it was just me you

know after reading the book saying okay we got to do this he's finally on board okay it's about time that's playing the long game heidi way to go yeah yeah very cool so you sat down started doing the budget started working this stuff and heidi'd been listening to the show anyway so she knew how to do this stuff yep i was keeping a budget along, but it was hard to do by myself. So I just waited, you know, until he came around. She's patient. I'm telling you, man. Totally not. Patient.

Good Midwesterner. She's kind of sweet. Right. Hillbilly woman would have hit you with something. Yeah, but she'll hide your body and they will never find it. Ever. Ever. Yeah, she's still just grinning. Smiling very cool well what do y'all tell people the key

to getting out of debt is you did it house and everything man yeah just uh work the baby steps it's it's not rocket science but it it takes the discipline to just keep plugging away at the debt and just keep moving forward. You might slide off the trail a little bit here and there, but get right back on as soon as you can and just keep attacking it. What was the $90,000 you cash flowed in addition to the $122,000? So we paid part of our kids' college. We had more vehicle repairs that needed to be done.

Our daughter got married. We went on vacation. So as soon as we got rid of our non-mortgage debt, we went on vacation. And then the rest of it was we actually got the kids, as they graduated high school, to go to – because they stayed at local schools, commuted back and forth. So we got them a new used vehicle to help them out. Okay, so you did the normal, we're going to be intentional but not wasteful while we're on Baby Steps 456.

And then you go ahead and knock the house out while you're doing all that stuff. Yes. Over a five-year period of time, basically. Exactly. So very, very good. Well done, guys. Thank you. Well done. Proud of done proud of you very very

cool you're heroes how does it feel to be free house and everything feels awesome it's not it's surreal still yeah we um um recently went on vacation it's like let's let's spend a house payment while we're on vacation and it was just it was just fun not not caring like how much we spent like we went over we did a good job spending, but we spent a house mortgage when we were on a vacation. Met the goal and then some. Yeah, I love it. Very good. That's good.

I like that. I like that. Joe's back. Right. I like that. That's good. And how long have you guys been married? Over 25 years.

Have you ever been debt-free while you were married? I don't think so. Probably not, no. Will you ever go back? Oh, no. No. Absolutely not no no absolutely not no and um you know getting started late in the game my advice is you know start early as soon as you can and that's why we got our kids involved yeah our youngest is here with us today he's 19 um we actually brought our other son and his fiance with us but um they something came up um today where uh he was having lots of pain in his stomach and i was like well better be on the safe side and

take you to the emergency room i you know found out that he's got um appendicitis oh my gosh yeah yeah exactly having an appendectomy here in Nashville? He did. Yes. He just got out of surgery like a half hour ago. He got out of surgery. But the debt-free screen goes on. But you did not miss the debt-free screen. My kid's in the hospital having surgery, but I'm here doing my debt-free screen. I love you some priorities. Way to go.

We asked him several times. Well, you can't do anything. Yeah, we drove seven hours. He's like, no, I'm doing it. You're not taking out the appendix. They want to put you in the hospital. Y'all wow that's what you will remember this trip yeah so he so oh my goodness and the fiancee sitting over there

yeah thinking that her in-laws are nuts right over here doing it yeah they totally understand because we made them, we actually held a FPU class and opened it up for our church, which all of our kids go to. So our daughter and her soon-to-be husband, our son and his soon-to-be wife all took the class. So once they were done, and this was all before covid hit um our daughter and her now husband have paid off forty six thousand dollars in her in her um tuition and they did that in 14 months and then um brian the one that had to have the surgery him and his fiancee been saving like crazy um they cash flowed their college um they have enough for a down payment on a house and they're paying for most of their wedding and a honeymoon and they are set to go they are just he just paid to have

an organ taken out right and then murphy shows up as a fan when i take everything out this is legacy change and you've changed the family tree congratulations way to go y'all i mean you didn't just get out of that you changed everything everything that's amazing what an incredible story wow well we've got a copy of the new baby steps millionaires book for you that's the next Yeah, you changed everything. That's amazing. What an incredible story. Wow. Well, we've got a copy of the new Baby Steps Millionaires book for you. That's the next chapter in your story. Thank you. You're on your way.

And a copy of Total Money Makeover for you to give away. Someone can sit it on their coffee table for six years and then it will bloom. It will bloom after six years. And it's predictable. So well done, you guys. Thank you. We're very, very proud of you. And get over there and check out your son. Oh, my God. That's where we're going next.

No way. Joe and Heidi, Brian and Justin from Ohio, $122,000, paid off in four years and 10 months, making $137,000 to $112,000. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! We're debt-free! Wow!

Woo! Man, that's dedication. And just a few minutes ago, their son woke up and said, I'm appendix free! That was too easy. Sorry, that was too easy. You did that. You had to do that. That was too easy. Our scripture today, Proverbs 29, 25.

It is dangerous to be concerned with what others think of you. But if you trust the Lord, you are safe. Eleanor Roosevelt said, You wouldn't worry so much about what others think of you if you realized how seldom they do. That's fantastic there we go boom greg's in portland oregon hi greg welcome to the ramsey show hey dude i'm happy to be here i wish i was here under better circumstances and uh giving you my debt-free speech but i'm not quite there yet. How can we help? Well, um, yeah,

so I actually live in a little town outside of Portland here in Oregon on the North coast. And, uh, I married my wife. She's, she's the sweetest woman you ever met. Um, you know, about six years ago and, uh, I lost my job about three months or so before she moved to the U S from the out of state or out of country. Um, I started my business with the last $350 in a bank account and we were dirt poor for a while. I'll tell you, I'm, I'm 26 now. I've been doing it for about five and a half years

and, uh, it's grown a lot this last year. I've done about 26% growth. I'm just now starting to get a good wage from it. My wife's a teacher at the local school district and she said, you know, she's always looking for jobs and she saw an IT job there, which is basically what I do now, but it's entry level. It's a little bit of a pay cut, but it comes with the benefits and the security of it. And that's what she wants is the security. and she's kind of giving me an ultimatum of you know she doesn't want to have to deal with the business anymore the you know up and down of it and uh said you know

i might not be here tomorrow i just need some fatherly advice sir your wife says she's gonna leave if you don't take a job that is a pay cut she said she might and it's one of those where i just don't know you know either call her bluff or she's she's flush you know this has nothing to do with this job man you there's there's bigger things going on your relationship here man what about your what about your world makes her feel not safe? Why would she even need to make this statement? Well, you know, I guess I think it's a lot of- No, don't guess. You know. You know. Don't guess. You know. Why doesn't she feel safe?

Why would she say something like that? You know, some months I'm way above what I would be making there like three, four times. And then some months I'm just under what I would be making there like three, four times. And then some months I'm just under what I'd be making there. Yeah. But you're talking about dollars and cents. Who are you? Are you hard to be around in the low months? No, no, I don't drink, you know, I don't do drugs. I'm a pretty easygoing person. You know, I, if I'm low, then, you know, I do everything I can to change it. Uh, I consider it, you know, to some extent of reflection on myself and I do everything I can to change it. I consider it, you know, to some extent a reflection on myself, and I do everything to better the situation, you know. I don't like to be mopey.

If anything, I like to just go to work and double down even more and, you know, triple down on things. Did I hear you say before you were married she was an immigrant, that she came from another country? She did, yeah. Where? She moved to the U.s here uh china china and so she is an american chinese or she's chinese she's chinese in nationality and

in an upbringing yes uh her family is the best people in the world they give you know her father i heard that and i heard she's sweet but also heard her say she's going to leave her husband if he didn't get a job she wanted. Didn't sound too sweet to me. Yeah. So I'm not buying the sweet crap. Something else is going on here, man. I don't like it at all. I don't know how you just mapped out the way you handle challenges, ups and downs,

puts you in the top 2% of men I will talk to all year. That's incredible. So there's something else going on here. I don't like, Dave, I don't like to get in the bluff calling game, but I would flip the lights on here and say, we're going to go talk to a marriage counselor today or tomorrow. Yeah. Because there's something bigger than just the financial security here.

Yeah. Because you're making the money, right? I interviewed. Yeah, you know I am. What kind of money are you making? That's where I'm seeing. You know what? Right now I'm making about $34,000, $35,000 a year.

What did she make? About 26%. I heard 26%. I had a guy tell me he was up 26 percent that made a dollar too so 26 percent don't mean nothing unless there's some money on the other end of that formula 26 percent of zero still zero but uh but you're making you know you're making 38 000 and she's making what she's making about 42 i make about $35, $36. And I'm seeing the competition crumble around me.

You know, the only other store here was Staples. It just went out of business. There's one guy in the next town over that does it. He kind of does it as a hobby, and I'm starting to get clients from him saying that they're unhappy. I don't ever want to knock somebody, you know? This is not about your business somebody this is not about your business this is not about your business my brother it's about your marriage

that's why I say this isn't going to be solved with a calculator this is going to be solved with a marriage counselor and this sucker's on life support do you believe her when she's threatening you do you believe her I don't know. You know, she's told me before that she wasn't super happy here, and she's wondering if I was open to moving to China, and I guess at some extent I was.

But, you know, right now it's just not a move I want to make. You know, I don't have a degree. And, you know, I built this because I didn't see any other options for work in my field in the area, you know. She's looking for an excuse to hit eject. Yeah, that's exactly right. Brother, it sounds like you're a hard worker. You stuck around longer than I would have,

but it sounds like you're a grinder and you're a hard worker and you sound like a guy of character and you sound like a guy who controls his emotions well. And it sounds like you're married to someone who is looking for a way to get out. Yeah. And I hate to be the guy that's breaking that to you in that way man no no i you know i need to have somebody you know with some experience here just tell me how it is you know really so what what you want to do in a situation where we don't know we're we've

been on the radio with you for two minutes and so it's a long yeah that's a fur piece from us knowing everything about what's going on over there but you have cultural differences that are pretty extreme security uh is a different thing when you come out of a communist background um yep and so and it has a different set of uh emotions to it. But we've also got this unhappiness, this wanting to return to China. And maybe this is, you know, you didn't do it, so she felt like that gave her the release. I don't know. That's kind of what we're hypothesizing. But the only way to find out is to, here's what you don't want to do.

You don't want to just call the bluff and then wonder what happened you do want to enter into this with some good counseling and so get on the phone and find a good christian counselor in your area find a good pastor in your area that can walk you guys through this and sit down with you and find out what the what is really going on because this is not about you taking a pay cut for her to be happy. It's kind of ridiculous when you say it out loud, actually, even if your income is volatile. Now, if she perceives because you don't bring any money home, you pull it all back into the business, but if you had a regular job, you'd bring some money home. See, that's not a pay cut in her mind, and that's a huge increase.

If you're not bringing any money home. See, that's not a pay cut in her mind, and that's a huge increase if you're not bringing any money into the household. Those types of things could come out in a good counseling session, but I'm with John. There's a lot going on here that leads up to this. This is not sudden. This has been coming on. It's been a slow burn for a while, and so you need to get in. What you don't want to have is regret that you didn't try everything. That's right. So you try everything. You flip the lights on, as John said. You start screaming, you know, fire, fire, fire, and we run out of the building because there's a fire.

Well, it turns out there's not a fire, but at least we didn't die. So we try everything. You go to the counselor and do the best you can, and then when you get down to it, she still takes off, and you still don't know why um but at least you tried everything yeah and you don't have that regret of of just kind of being uh laissez-faire about your marriage just whatever you know case or us or i right now you instead we we give it every shot we got you leave it all on the field and then if you lose you left it all on the field. But you don't want to play half butt and then lose and then go,

well, I'm not sure why I lost except maybe my lack of effort. Is that what you're saying? Yeah, and I just don't – the phrase calling somebody's bluff, marriage is not a game. It's something that you do together. It's not Texas Hold'em. You become one. I'm not calling anybody's bluff.

I'm going to figure out how I can make this thing work on my end, and I'm going to expect the same of you. Yeah. With my spouse. But if somebody's down there throwing an ultimatum down on a job, that is a fire alarm that there's all kinds of crap going on inside your walls, even if you don't understand them. That's right. And you need to find out what that is.

That puts us out of the Ramsey Show and the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Have a friend or family member that needs a daily dose of Ramsey advice in their life? Let them know about the Ramsey Call of the Day podcast. It's a quick hit of advice about life and money in under 10 minutes. Check out the Ramsey Call of the day podcast, wherever you listen to podcasts.