The Ramsey Show - App - Investing Instead of Paying for School Is Financial Suicide! (Hour 2)

Episode Date: March 9, 2022

Dave Ramsey & George Kamel discuss: Teaching your kid about money the right way, A situation with a controlling husband, Paying for medical school Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us, America. It's a free call at 888-825-5225. George Campbell Ramsey personality is my co-host today as we answer your questions about your relationships, about your money, about your career, your job, about mental health, whatever it is you want to talk about, we're here to help you. The phone number is 888-825-5225. John is with us. John's in Chicago to start off this hour. Hi, John. How are you?

Hello, Dave. Thank you for all that you do. Let me say that first. Well, thank you, sir. How can we help? I can't think of a single program that affects people's lives so positively. Okay. My wife and I are business owners, and we work together and have for over 20-plus years. Let me paint the scenario. You ask the questions you feel you need to know. We purchased about three acres of property. The intent for this acreage in the end is that we park campers and RV vehicles.

This is my retirement job. I'm never going to retire. I know that. She knows that. But I have to have a plan for something I can physically do when I get to be much older. So that's my physical toleration limit, I felt. Having said that, we bought the land. We bought it at about 4.2%.

And we also rent garage space on another property. Now, we are always going to build a steel building on the land that we own and move the business over there to avoid that rent. But here's the question that I'm not sure. If I build the steel building, it's going to cost me, let's just say, $100,000, and I'm going to build that steel building with cash, or do I take that $100,000 and pay off the loan for the land and then save up enough again to pay cash for the building, but then the whole time I'm renting the other one.

So it's like this not sure what really the best thing to do is question. What's your income? That's kind of where I'm at. Our business grosses, now I know that's not your question, but if you don't understand our business, it is. We're going to personally net about $250,000 a year. Okay. All right. Well, it sounds like you could build a building fairly quickly if you paid off the land.

If we paid off the land, I think we could build the building in another two years. I think you could build it faster than that. It's only $100,000. Right. I understand exactly what you're saying, but we've gotten rid of all of our debt except we do have less than $100,000 left on our original mortgage, and we have one vehicle. But just in two years, we were the first pig. Now we're looking at the third pig. Okay, I'm sorry. What did you say about you have a car debt?

Yeah, we have one truck in the business. All the other trucks are paid for. All the other equipment's paid for. We have one truck in the business, and then we don't have any other retail debt. We don't have any credit card debt, nothing like that. How much do you owe on the truck? About $35,000. Okay, and you have how much in cash right now? We have cash of about $20,000. Where was the $100,000 going to come from to build the building? In the contracts that are in place now for our business. We have several years of contractual work. So future revenue? Future revenue, that's correct. So you were just going to cash flow it, is what you're saying.

Oh, my gosh. Our cash flow is just insane now, but that creates a problem that you have to be more aware of. You know, you can get lazy. What's on the mortgage, your primary? About $99,000. Okay. And then you also have $100,000 owed on the land. We have about $150,000 on the land.

We've paid the land down about 25% in the last two years. So $35,000 on a truck, $100,000 on your house, and $150,000 on the land down about 25% in the last two years. So 35 on a truck, 100 on your house, and 150 on the land. Yes. And a 250 income. Yes. All right. What I would do is... And about 20 in cash.

Your shortest distance between where you are and wealthy is to become debt-free. Okay. And then cash flow, whatever. And along the way, you're cash flowing the business but you're also cash flowing whatever needs so i'm going to get the truck paid off as soon as i can i'm going to get uh i'm going to get my house paid off as quick as i can then i'm going to pay off the land and then i'm going to build the building with cash got it do you have an emergency fund or is that 20k it yeah that's what the 20K is. And we just weren't sure if paying rent was really the best thing to do during all this time.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah, you rent because you still have debt. Yes. Okay. Yeah. That's actually a good answer. He's surprised.

That's the – well, that's the – the thing is this. You get caught up in the – it's like, you know, it's the same dichotomy that people say, well, I pay $600 or pay $1,600 a month in rent on my home, so I might as well buy a house because the payment's only $1,700, you know, and they're not the same. They're not the same. Again, it's a false narrative that people use to justify or to rationalize buying a house when you're not ready to buy a house because you're broke and so um well the payment's the same yeah but home ownership is more expensive than non-home ownership so and and the the

let's put a hundred thousand dollars in the middle of the table all it's going to make you is the saved rent the fact that you don't rent the middle of the table. All it's going to make you is the saved rent, the fact that you don't have to rent the thing anymore, the building. If you used it to build a building, so your return on that $100,000 is not $100,000 in one year. So it takes a while for this stuff to work out, and I kind of know that because I've done that here. I mean, I've dumped a couple hundred million dollars into this campus

that this company then rents back from me. But it's, you know, the rate of return is good, reasonable on the money invested. But it's not like I get that money back every year that I put into this. It'll be years and years and years and years before i get that money back out of this place yeah i own an asset but it's not you know it's not like okay you build a hundred thousand dollar building and saves you a hundred thousand dollars it doesn't it's not it'll be years before they break even on that so that's that's what and doing the math on okay if we free up that truck payment then we free up your mortgage payment and you make 250k yeah ding ding now we can save up

and buy that steel building like nothing and pay off the pay off the acreage so if i were in your shoes i would cut my lifestyle down to nothing i'd pay off my house and my truck this year and i pay off the building or the land the next year and i build a building the next year now the question is he's got 20k there that's his emergency fund but he's also got the cart i don't i don't know what he's doing with the business. I'm a little bit worried that that business having no cash at all, running a $250,000 top line or gross profit or whatever he's running there. So at home, I'd take him down to $1,000.

But in the business, I might let him have some retained earnings. So I just kind of left that alone uh in this scenario if it would have paid the truck off completely i would have i might have reached over and grabbed it but i'm gonna let it sit there for now and use this cash flow to clean this mess up if i'm him john thank you thank you for being a listener and thank you for your kind words we appreciate appreciate it. This is The Ramsey Show. hey small business owners you know what usually causes small businesses to fail poor accounting yep you heard me and not managing your books well often leads to not paying your quarterly income taxes. I don't want that to happen to you. In fact, I want you to be able to focus on what you love and let a pro worry about the tax code changes. That's why I recommend

small business owners work with a tax professional like our endorsed local providers or ELPs. They're some of the most qualified tax pros in the nation. My team has vetted them and they're Ramsey trusted. That means they're committed to excellence. They want to see you win and they can help you minimize your tax liability, which means you keep more money for your business. To find a Ramsey-trusted tax pro near you, go to ramseysolutions.com slash tax pro. That's ramseysolutions.com slash tax pro. George Campbell Ramsey personality is my co-host. I am so excited. Smart Conference is back this fall. October 22nd, we're bringing this world-class event to Dallas, Texas.

You're going to spend a whole day getting smarter. We're going to give you the tools and the inspiration you need to be smarter in every area of your life. You'll go home believing you can meet your goals. You can build wealth. You can grow as a leader. You can heal from mental health and relationship struggles. You can get the job of your dreams. We're bringing the best teachers and thought leaders. Joining me will be

Ramsey Personalities, Rachel Cruz, Dr. John Deloney, Ken Coleman, George Camel, Christina Ellis, Pedro Latorre, and special guests Craig and Amy Groeschel will be there speaking on marriage. Craig is the pastor of LifeChurch.tv over in Oklahoma City, the largest church in America today, and he is an incredible, he and Amy are incredible communicators. So this is going to be an incredible all-day event, Smart Conference, October 22nd in Dallas. The early bird prices are gone. Tickets are selling very rapidly. Smart Conference traditionally sells out very fast.

It's been a while since we've done one because of all the garbage we've all been through. But now we're back at doing live events again, big time and excited about it. We miss doing them. We miss being out there in these cities with you guys. George, this is going to be fun. It's legitimately my favorite event. And I learned so much. I'm out there in the crowd taking notes because these powerhouse speakers are just bringing such inspiration, motivation, education.

And so I want everyone to be there it's a party i mean you get you know six eight thousand people in a room after what we've been through the last few years and we're just celebrating we're having a great time well and we're you're gonna leave just exhausted and smart that's it's drinking from the fire hose that's it man taste of everything we do here at ramsey solutions so ramsey Solutions. So RamseySolutions.com slash events October 22nd in Dallas. Get your tickets now before they are gone. It will sell out early. Again you've seen the football games on television and everything else. Things are selling out quickly and easily these days and you do not want to miss this. Go and get your tickets now at RamseySolutions.com slash events. James is in Michigan. Hi, James.

Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi. How are you guys today? Thank you for taking my call. Sure. What's up? So I first want to say thank you. I had a nasty divorce two years ago.

That's why I discovered you guys, everything you do. I went from a camper payment and a furniture payment all the way down to a baby step five, saving 15 per kid and a 529 plan. Wow. So yeah, again, thank you. I guess my question is, I saw one unexpected side effect of this was my kids are very observant. My daughter is 14. Now my son's 12. I was getting was getting all these questions dad why are you paying cash for this everyone uses their card all these weird weird things so i've been kind of using that as a learning opportunity for them um to kind of set them up to manage money better when they're older um now it's to the point where my daughter who is very ambitious uh wants to get her first job

after school um you know good grades pending of course but uh i i really want to get her first job after school. You know, good grades pending, of course. But I really want to lead her in a way to where, you know, she could start saving now and just build these habits early. So I don't know how to go about this. Do the baby steps apply to a teenager? Like, do I set her up with a, you know, like a custodial IRA? Or what do you guys typically recommend for this sort of situation? Do I set her up with a custodial IRA? What do you guys typically recommend for this sort of situation?

Well, I think it's awesome that you're doing that and that she's seeing this stuff going, I want to do this and not being pushed away from it. So there's three things that you can do with money, and if she understands that, she's going to be okay. Give, save, and spend. And we've got the junior piggy bank. It may be a little beyond her at her age, but if she can learn to make money and then manage said money by giving a little bit, saving a little bit, spending a little bit, she's going to be okay.

Yeah, you don't have to get super sophisticated and do custodial IRAs or anything at this stage of the game for her to learn. George is exactly right. Let's just make sure she's building the muscles appropriate to a 14-year-old. You can invest some, you can give some, and you can enjoy or spend some. And you need to do some of that out of each paycheck. And no, the baby steps do not apply to a 14-year-old. She's got a place to live. She's got food. That's her dad's job

uh but her job is just to learn how to handle money and to build these muscles in these three areas and then they can get progressively more sophisticated but we're not trying to um i mean when my when dave ramsey's kids were 18 they could not tell you, you know, super nerdy details about investments. They knew a general understanding of mutual funds, and they knew about generosity, and they knew about not spending money you didn't have. And that was about it. And they were ready to go to college with that. Now, you know, you could take it a little bit further if you want.

I'll send you a copy of the book, Rachel, and I did Smart Money, Smart Kids, which is all about teaching parents how to teach their kids how to handle money. And it's all about age appropriate. You know, a 3-year-old gets a different version of give, save, spend than a 14-year-old gets. But, yeah, you don't have to do a bunch of fancy spancy stuff. It's just a matter of answer her questions, put the stuff in front of her, and if she'll learn to be intentional with the money she earns, that's a big plus. George is exactly right. And at that age, I mean, our Ramsey education team does a great job. Our personal finance

curriculum is now in 48% of high schools, and so I don't know if they have that at her school. If not, we've got a homeschool course on our website that you can jump onto. But something like that could be a good resource for her if she does want to do a little more of a deep dive. Yeah, she might actually love going through that. Amy is in San Francisco. Hi, Amy. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave. Thanks so much for taking my call. Sure. I'm shocked that it got through, actually. I've called so many times. Well, I'm honored you did. How can we help? Okay. Well, a few months ago, I was searching on YouTube, and I typed in, my husband controls all the finances, and I came across you. And since then, I've been

binge listening to you and your daughter, Rachel, and I've been binge listening to you and your daughter Rachel and I've been learning so much and changing many things just really just learning and then making some pretty big changes so I'm at the very beginning and just working on getting out of debt. I've been married for about 14 years and I have three kids and my husband and I are currently separated. So my question is, it's kind of a relationship question, but also a financial. It's both. He is a financial advisor for Morgan Stanley. And we never combined our finances.

We both came to the marriage with finances, and he bought our home a year and a half before we got married. And finances were always a really, really heated topic for him, and so I very ignorantly spent down the separate money that I had coming into our marriage because I never had access to our community money. And he was really resentful that I didn't have a job. And we had our three kids kind of back to back to back. they're barely four years apart between zero and all three of them were born in four years um how can i help today i'm just i know um i'm really just wanting to hear um just what you would have to say to this situation i'm i'm just super overwhelmed um i'm sorry sorry for what you're going through.

This guy's not a nice guy. No, he's not. Well, he is if I do it his way. No, he has a mean streak. And he's very controlling, and he's not a nice guy. And it wasn't just money. It was everything else too, right? Yeah. Yeah. But money was always the trigger yeah yeah but that's that it always it always is yeah

the um i'm sorry so um you know i think what you guys are going to have to decide is if you're if the marriage is going to stay together and if it is it's going to have a whole new set of terms. And that is that we're going to be sharing everything. And we both get a vote. You don't get the only vote. I don't think this guy's going to come to the table on that. So I don't have a good... I don't think he is either. So I don't think your marriage is going to continue.

I think you have to learn what this looks like for you personally moving forward. What's the future look like for you as a single mom? With huge child support and alimony from him. And I don't know what your rights in California are to this house that he owned prior to marriage. Your divorce attorney will have to tell you that. George Campbell Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America, in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage. Andy and Nikki are with us. Hey, guys, how are you?

Good. Yeah, doing good. Welcome. Where do you guys live? St. Louis, Missouri. All right. Well, welcome to Nashville. It's. Where do you guys live? St. Louis, Missouri. All right. Well, welcome to Nashville. It's good to have you guys.

So fun. How much debt have you paid off? We paid off $30,000. Cool. How long did that take? It took us five months. Good for you. And your range of income during that time?

$110,000. Okay, good. What do you all do for a living? I'm a teacher. And i work in human resources for who a manufacturing company good good for you guys wow excellent so what kind of debt was this 30,000 it was primarily student loans and a water filtration system for our home of course of course i love it all right good for you guys how long you've been married 12 years okay so what happened uh five months ago that you go okay we're not doing this anymore

we're cleaning this up boom just like that yeah so we in probably the first year of our marriage somebody told us about you know the dave ramsey plan and actually let us borrow a book and everything and I kind of like on my own I didn't read it I just went to the how do I make a budget and so I used an excel spreadsheet I made us a budget um and that was kind of it just stayed on the excel spreadsheet and we actually did the envelope system yeah we did the envelope a little bit a little bit here and there um we were not tracking all of our purchases um we weren't counting all of our receipts and so we were just doing a budget loosely sticking to the budget and paying extra on our debt we always had that we had student loans we had cars our entire marriage we've had debt so and so last um last so you were pretty much ish yes exactly and ish is a wish and so what happened by myself so what happened that flipped it five

months ago um i uh was mowing the grass and i wanted to listen to a new podcast and uh so i uh started searching for something new you know and obviously obviously we knew who you were as, you know, growing up in church and everything. We've heard the name Dave Ramsey. I just didn't know a whole lot about it. I found the podcast just scrolling. I started listening to these debt-free screams and just all the advice and what your future can look like if you take hold of it. And it was just very, very eye-opening. And I was convinced.

I just became very convinced that, you know, we can be free of this. He was like, we can be millionaires. Yeah, she didn't believe me. I was like, I don't think so. Where's the guy that just went to cut the grass? I was like, we're already doing it. I'm paying extra on our student loans when I can. Right. And she has been the number person person i'm not a numbers person at all you know and i brought this to

her we started listening to the podcast together um decided that we were just going to do this we're going to get on board and start hearing all these stories of people just getting this intensity and and fighting this battle basically just to just to knock this out i was like this can happen we should be able to do this there's no reason we can't um so did you just need that bigger why that bigger vision of like what are we doing we're just looking at what's happening next week we need to look at what could happen 10 20 years from now well it was that and we weren't doing as much as we could we there was no gazelle intensity it was just like well do you actually hear it like where we can? So it was. I want to retire. Yeah. It was the long-term vision and the intentionality. Yeah. So that got you guys fired.

I mean, you went pretty hard at this. 30K in five months making 110. I mean, this is rice and beans. What were you guys doing? It didn't feel that way, actually. You know, I knew that we did have, you know, when we first got married, we were combined income 30 grand. You know, we were on some government assistance. You know, we had a baby, a six-week-old baby, hardly any money. You know, it was hard. We had some in savings, too, that we were able to pour into it because we really weren't doing the plan. How much was in savings?

About $12,000. Okay, so $12,000, which left you $18,000 to knock it out in the five months. Yeah. That makes a whole lot more sense. I got to ask, how much is a water filtration system these days? It wasn't worth it. They range. They range.

I think we financed about, it was $7,000, I think. Whoa. Yeah, it was crazy. Oh, my goodness. Yeah, we might have got ripped off. Those sales pitches are very convincing, yeah. They are. Yeah.

Wow. So you never let them into your house. But it's gone now. Wow. You got rid of it or did you just pay it off? No, the debt's gone. We just paid it off. I was like, oh, no.

The debt's gone. We're keeping that good water. Oh, man. That's right. It's important. Wow. Way to go, guys. How's it feel?

Really good. Yeah, it feels very, very freeing. You did this really fast, but very intense. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it was very intense. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think it was really important for me to kind of like connect this to like a spiritual truth. Um,

and that like really gave me this like behind it. Um, you know, this, uh, I really like, um, what it says in the Psalms that,

that God has determined the stars and called them each by name. And I, I thought, you know, when we can label and and every single dollar and give every single dollar a name just like the name of the app that's that's what this is all about is taking every single dollar and uh the zero point budget and creating that um you know when we apply biblical principles to our practical lives you know i really feel like we

reflect the image of god amen beautiful amen it's well done it's well done that's what it took for me i had to have the same exact thing because i had all the head knowledge and i still went broke you know because i was doing stupid butt stuff and but i finally had to go okay this is god's ways of doing it and the answer to everything else is no that's the only answer is that way and i it was an act of faith, and that flipped it. And I think the people that have the fastest, most dramatic turnarounds have an element of spirituality and psychology and a relational shift in their marriage as well. Those three things come together.

It just pours gas on this whole idea, and you can go right through it. And the thing about this is I don't even have to ask you this you'll never go back no there's nothing there's nobody that can sell you anything on that ever again it'll never happen uh you're done you you i but but the way you describe that that's yeah that's that's what goes with that package so you know you're not going to fall off the wagon yeah and we just totally agreed uh the whole time you know, you're not going to fall off the wagon. Yeah, and we just totally agreed the whole time. You know, I mean, there was, you know, I was selling plasma. I was doing some Uber on the side, you know, a little bit. I taught summer school for the first time in my career.

Wow, you guys got after it. Very cool. That's awesome. Well, we're very proud of you. Who was your biggest cheerleader outside the two of you? Yeah, so definitely my wife's parents and they're here with us today yeah yeah um and uh you know we had some other support you know um from just people have done it you know someone from work and um you know her and her husband

gone through it and got debt free and um so that that was just good moral support, you know, friends that supported us. Very cool. Good for you guys. How's it feel now that you're free? Awesome. Very, very good. Never going back, that's for sure. Amen, amen.

And you cash-flowed those amazing T-shirts to say, 3-2-1, we're debt-free, too? Yes. She made them. I made them, actually. She made them. Oh, nice. There we go.

All right. Good. This is cool. It really has enabled us to I'm going to go back to school for my master's degree and just to cash flow that. It's not something I ever thought I'd be able to do. What are you going to study?

Mental health counseling. Oh wow, love it. Good for you. Well done, man. Alright, we've got a copy of Baby Steps Millionaires for you. That's the next chapter in your financial story for sure. You've done an incredible job. And we've got a copy of Total Money Makeover for you to give away to somebody and stir them up and get them going. You brought the kiddos with you.

What are their names and ages? Let's bring them into the shot. Yes, we have Noah. He's 10. And Tenley is 6. All right. Everybody's got the t-shirts on. Everybody's ready to rock and roll.

I love it. Way to go, you guys. Andy, Nikki, Noah, and Tenley from St. Louis. $30,000 paid off in five months, making $110,000. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt free!

I love it! Wow. Look at that. A lot of smiles over there. A lot of debt free faces. That's a lot of fun. A lot of awesome t-shirts. What a pretty cool couple there. They got a bright future ahead of them. A lot of good stuff about to come their way.

Going on for the Masters living the dream, man. It's amazing. And they'll be millionaires, too. Before you know it. They will be. They'll hit that goal. You're right. This is the Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. George Campbell, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today.

Thank you for joining us, America. We're glad you're here. Ted is with us in Boston. Hi, Ted. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. How are you doing? Better than I deserve.

What's up? So, I have a question for you. I'm going to be starting medical school in August, and I just wanted to know your opinion on how I should go about my finances in regards to what I have saved and how much loans I should take out during the next four years. Okay. Well, you don't have a long runway here. It's pretty much here, huh? Yep.

So how much money do you have to pay for medical school? So in the beginning of August, I'll have projected about $150,000 saved up. And what do you project your budget for medical school is? So tuition is going to be around $43,000 a year, and cost of living will be about $33,000 a year projected. So you're talking about $76,000 per year? More or less, yeah. How many years? Four.

Four total? Yep. Yeah. And will you have any income during that time? I mean, it depends on how I do. I might be able to do like a shift here or there a month, but I'm not really counting on working. Where did you get the $150,000? I'm 26, so I've been working since more like 22 years old, so I've just saved up.

Wow. Okay. Okay. So you're 75,000 shy, right? Did I do that right? No, I didn't do that right. For a year. So he's at about 300,000.

He's got 150. Yeah, you're about 150,000 shy. Yeah. You're right. Yeah. So, well, you know, we don't tell people to take out loans here on this show, and so I'm going to be scrambling and figuring out a way to find that other money, whether it be scholarships or fellowships or MD-PhD programs or whatever they are,

whatever you can get into. How much of that four years are you in residency? So the way medicine works is you do four years in medical school, which is straight school, you're paying tuition, you're not making a dime. After you graduate your four years, then you do your residency, and depending on the specialty you choose, it's anywhere from three years to seven years. Right. Okay. All right. And so, you know, your plan right now is to come out with three hundred thousand dollars or 150

thousand dollars in student loan debt is that your plan so yes i just don't know what's the best way to go about it i'm considering just keeping my 150 000 in investments and just letting that sit over the next four years and just taking out loans over the next four years absolutely not absolutely that's effectively borrowing money to and on student loans to just letting that sit over the next four years and just taking out loans over the next four years? Absolutely not. Absolutely not. That's effectively borrowing money on student loans to invest it. No, absolutely not. No, that makes you $300,000 in student loan debt. No, that's suicide.

I'm definitely using the $150,000 until it's gone, and during that period of time I'm going to be trying to figure out a way to come up with the rest of it's gone, and during that period of time, I'm going to be trying to figure out a way to come up with the rest of it so there's no loans. Okay, so drain the whole 150. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, if you can scrounge together that.

And the other thing I'm going to do is I'm going to cut my dadgum lifestyle down. I mean, $33,000 a year for lifestyle while you're in school? That's a little steep. I know he's in Boston, which is my hometown, but I think you can shave that down. I mean, $33,000 a year for lifestyle while you're in school? That's a little steep. Yeah. I know he's in Boston, which is my hometown, but I think you can shave that down. I don't care if you live with five dudes. Whatever you have to do to shave down that cost, because that is something that is in your control to an extent. And so I'm going to be, like Dave said, going for those scholarships, grants, whatever you can scrounge up there. I'm going to be working a little bit. I mean, you can do some work, especially you're not in school, you know, 40 hours a week. You're studying, obviously. There's

still summers. There's things you can be doing to bring in, you know, 10, 20 grand a year. The other thing I'm going to do is do everything I can to find scholarship money. It's a little, it's a lot harder to find scholarship money for graduate work or med school or law school. But we have talked to many people over the years that have found it and have done it, and I would. I definitely would. I'd make that my thing. So, man, and absolutely. Listen, what your question does, it scares me to my bones

because it tells me that in your mind you've normalized this level of student loan debt, and it's not normal. It's financial suicide and it takes years to undo these kinds of mistakes uh and so and with this kind of time by the way everyone that starts med school doesn't finish and everyone that finishes does not become a rich doctor uh this is mythology in this current world that we live in and so the set of assumptions that allow you to go three hundred thousand dollars in debt in your mind and that's all okay is a really dangerous narrative you're setting yourself up for all kinds of problems alex is with us in

nashville hey alex welcome to the ramsey show hey there dave i'm so thankful thankful that God graced us with you and your team, the ministry that you all have. We appreciate you so much. And George, hang on there, the YouTube trolls. Don't listen to them. You're killing it, brother. I appreciate the encouragement. Thank you, Alex. Hey, I'm a 27-year-old pastor in the Nashville area. My wife and I, we have one child who's almost two, and we're in baby step two. We have a very significant amount of debt, $107,000. And we paid off a significant amount since December, but we are seeking, I want to seek wisdom from you guys on if it is the right time for us to have a second child. We really want a second child, but we are gazelle and tense on baby step two.

Yes. It's always the right time to have a baby. It's always the right time. Babies are awesome. There's nothing better. We just know, obviously. The only time I tell you no is if you gave me these same numbers and said you already had eight kids. I'd tell you to take a chill pill and let's get the debt paid off.

But you've got one baby and another one on the way i don't we do not tell people to stop life because of debt uh you know not we don't tell young couples not our couples to not get married because of debt we don't tell people to not have babies because of debt ever never have in 30 years of doing this show those are decisions between you your spouse and god and um you know the the fact that you're aware that you're bringing a child into this situation and that you know with two little babies you guys are going to have to really keep the fire burning and uh and get this debt knocked out means you're going to be okay pastor you're going to do great thank you i appreciate that what's your house i'm gonna love you even more

uh 102 000 okay you're gonna do fine that gives me some hope here yeah it might slow down the snowball if you're gonna save up during you know stork mode and make sure baby's okay and all that but other than that you're gonna pay off this debt it's not gonna delay you by that much yeah i was just concerned that the shovel might have to be repurposed a little bit it will it will but it's not it's not a deal breaker and it's not going to mean you're in debt a decade longer it's going to mean you're in debt four months longer or something like that right whoopty right whoopty babies are a big deal yeah i'm just the dave guy that wants to be out of debt yesterday so yeah well yeah i agree i agree uh and uh

babies are the best thing you can do so you know they're they're you know it's and no they're the second best thing the best thing you can do is grandbabies oh yeah if i don't know how great grandbabies are gonna be i've been nicer to their parents but yeah this is uh this is what you ought to do for sure yeah absolutely you get to have all the fun and spoil them that's right having load them up with sugar send them home or if you pick it up and say this one smells bad hey this one smells bad you're gonna have to break fix it this one's broken diaper change i can't fix this one this one's got a problem take them rachel so awesome just hand it right back hey rachel come here get your kid yeah this is great it's fun it's a blast yeah

absolutely i love it but it's an interesting concept because we usually tell people stay gazelle intense but when it comes to still living your life and getting married we get that one a lot too yeah should i wait to get married because of debt should i be debt free before i'm married or should i you know i've had people you know like i'm not gonna marry him until he pays off all his debt no no i don't i don't want to marry you if that's the case. You know, so, no, that's not. Listen, if you're not in agreement, then don't get married. But if you're in agreement about we're going to get rid of this and then we're going to build wealth and we're going to work together,

then you've got a marriage. But you don't have to wait until you're out of debt to be married. That's just not true. You still got to have a plan. We're going to work together to accomplish these goals goals that's all it is instead of a part and you're actually gonna make more progress and progress faster but yeah um rachel was born the year we filed bankruptcy so we don't um we've never planned babies around money um within reason i again, if it's an extreme situation, but within reason, I just don't put that as part of the equation.

That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. Good hour, George. Thank you. Nice job, Kelly and Jenna and Ben in the booth. The booth people are lined up in there. Even Zach's in there. This is the Ramsey Show. Hey folks, Ken Coleman here. Did you know The Ramsey Show is one of the most popular podcasts in the world? Get your daily dose of advice on life and

money. Check out all of our shows from the Ramsey Network wherever you listen to podcasts.