The Ramsey Show - App - Investing vs. Paying Down the Mortgage (Hour 1)

Episode Date: October 11, 2022

John Delony & George Kamel discuss: How much of your net worth should be in cars, If you should sell your house when moving across the country, How to maximize your savings and live your life, Affording care for mental health. Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6 Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Лавиа Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Pod's Moving and Storage studio, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage is taking the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. We help people build wealth, do work they love, and actually be in a relationship with one another. I'm John Deloney, joined here by my good friend George Campbell, and we are taking your calls on life, money, marriage, relationships, mental health,

whatever's going on in your life, your work. 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. The call is free. Give us a buzz, and we look forward to talking with you. Let's go to Kimberly in Charlotte, North Carolina. What's up, Kimberly? How we doing?

I'm doing good. How about you? Fantastic. What's up? So I have a question. Me and my husband have just started watching Dave Ramsey. I'm 26. My husband is 24. We make about $105,000 a year before tax. We are debt-free except for our house mortgage, and we want to start

investing. My question is, should we start investing now or work on paying our house off faster? Yes. That's it. The answer is yes. And you're going to do both in Baby Step 4, 5, 6. We do them all at the same time. So you kind of get one plate spinning with Baby Step 4. Let's start investing 15% of our income into retirement. You guys don't have kids? No, not yet.

Okay, so we're going to fast pass Disney style through Baby step five for now and go to baby step six. So any extra margin beyond that 15%, you can now throw on top of your principal mortgage. Okay. Also, we have an $80,000 truck that is paid off. We paid it off in a year and a half. Holy truck, Batman. Would you recommend selling? An $80,000? Does it fly?

Yeah. It was my husband's dream truck. He got it before we got married. Then his dream truck turned into his dream wife, and now the dream truck has got to go away. That's what I think. He doesn't want to get rid of it, but would you recommend selling that

and putting that down on the house or investing in it? This is me personally. Not owning an $80,000 truck, yes, absolutely. And our advice when it comes to toys, because let's be honest, an $80,000 truck is a toy, is not to have more than 50% of your income tied up in things with motors in them. And it sounds like you guys have as much income as you do toys. Yes. What is your car worth?

My car is worth like $6,000. Okay, hold on. What kind of grown man will allow his wife to drive a $6,000 car while he drives an $80,000 truck. Hold on. Let me interject here, Kimberly, because George drives a Tesla. John, this is beyond Tesla at this point. No, I understand.

I come from a truck driving state, a place where trucks are equal to, if not a little bit more important than the spouse. I get it. There it is. The second form is gone. to if not a little bit more important than the spouse i get it um there it is yes there is a i i i know of trucks that cost eighty thousand dollars cost 110 000 that are tools they are they have a utility to them oh i thought you're talking about the guys driving them yeah i was like john that's me don't call them tools they have a utility they're nice guys so they are toys but they're also utility.

I also know a whole bunch of dudes who are, A, leveraged to their eyeballs to drive an $80,000 truck when a used $20,000 version of that truck will last them for a long, long, long time. And as George mentioned, you guys don't make enough money to justify having an $80,000 depreciating asset in your driveway. I know. I just don't know how to get my husband convinced of it. Well, here's the way to do it. This is not going to be a math problem. It might be. It could be.

But this is a, I'm scared that we don't have an emergency fund. And you have an $80, you have an 80,000. Oh, you do? Okay. We do. I want to be in a home. I want to start thinking now about what our life is going to look like in five years, in 10 years. And in five and 10 years, you're going to have a $40,000 truck sitting in the same spot in the driveway and we're still not going to have a down payment on a house.

I'd love to see you sell that $80,000 truck while people are still paying crazy amounts of money for used trucks and go buy a nice $30,000 truck that's used, that's got mileage on it, everybody's going to live, and let's take $50,000 and put that down on our house. What's left on your mortgage? Yeah. Pardon me? What's left on your mortgage? Yeah. Pardon me? What's left on the mortgage? About two, what was it? We actually just bought in August. It's like 220, I think. Okay. And we haven't set

the payoff in 15 years. Forget 15 years. You guys have a life to live. I don't want to be in debt for 15 years. Do you? No. So let's have a goal of five or seven or 10 at the most. And what, what is this 50 K going to do to that goal? It's going to speed up that process by a lot. So think of it this way. Um, this has been a, a Hank, I grew up and we didn't have a lot growing up and money was a, was a hard conversation. And I didn't know a lot of people with a lot of money for a lot of my life. And one of the ways when I – now I get to sit by Dave every week. I get to sit by people who think about wealth differently.

And one of the things they have taught me is to stop thinking about money in ways A, B, and C or D. How can I get this thing? How can I see this? How can I make the shiny thing even shinier? And here's a unique take on money. How can I buy hours of my life? How can I buy back time? And so if you just look at your $105,000 household income that y'all make, and you think how long would it take us to pay down $50,000 of our mortgage? That might be one or two or three years of your life. And we can buy three years of our life, two years of our life, if we just go sell this big dumb truck.

And changing the way I look at my life now, I actually went and bought another mower because it took me six hours to mow my place out in the woods on a Saturday. Now me and my son do it together and we get done in two. I just bought four hours of my life back. You see what I'm saying? So that's how I've started shifting. Um, how can I, I've started paying for things that I don't normally pay for, but I've started thinking, how could I buy hours of my life back? And I want you to sit down with him and say,

hey, we could accelerate this by two years, by three years, and then we can get a jumpstart on our debt-free life and bring a kid into a world that doesn't know what a mortgage even is. And it starts with selling your beloved baby out in the driveway. Is that fair? Yes, I agree.

And we're all clear, you get the nice car next time right? yeah there we go $6,000 versus $80,000 have him call the show George and I want to talk to him

too hey what color is the truck? I'm just curious what color is it? it is red I knew it John I was thinking in my head

and he keeps it oh my gosh he's had it for two years and it's brand new like he keeps that thing as soon as you called in I was like big white fuck I was like this is a child And he keeps it. Oh, my gosh. He's had it for two years, and it's brand new. Like, he keeps that thing. As soon as you called in, I was like, big white fuck. I was like, this is a child who grew up and got money, and he wants a big white fuck.

And, hey, he doesn't have a mortgage on it, so high five to him. But, man, that's a lot. Sell the truck, man. You know what? I'm going to challenge you. I'm going to challenge you to find a $10,000 truck that gets you to and from. Whoa. And put down $70,000 on your house. Move that sucker.

That would be baller. Just accelerate it, man. Accelerate it. Buyback moments of your life. That'd be incredible. 888-825-5225. Give us a shout on The Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. Субтитры сделал DimaTorzok This is the Ramsey Show 888-825-5225

I'm John Deloney joined by by my good friend George Campbell. Let's go to Matthew in St. Louis, Missouri. What's up, Matthew? Hi. Everything is great. I went to see the Chiefs last night, and they won, but thanks for taking my call. Way to go, Chiefs. I'm a Patrick Mahomes fan.

I like that guy. So what's up? Yeah. So God has called us. I'm a Patrick Mahomes fan. I like that guy. So what's up? Yeah. So God has called us. I'm a pastor to a new church in Alaska. We're moving down to Aleutian Island. Everything's provided. We don't have to send our furniture or anything.

The issue is we have a house. The house is going to be sold for probably $200,000. You don't owe anything on it. And we're just trying. The only thing is, it's by October 31st. We need to figure out what we're doing in the next two weeks. If we keep the house, say, see if it doesn't work out, you know, cost is probably about, with insurance and everything, probably between $500 and $700 a month. Whereas we could sell it for $200,000 and just bank the money.

And we'd have to pay a little bit per month, like maybe $5,200 for a storage unit. But I'm just driving back, and I never thought I'd even get on the Dave Ramsey show. So anyway, so that's my dilemma. Do I sell the house? Do I have friends watch it? It'll be vacant, but that's not a problem where we live how long are you thinking of

of I guess you don't know why doesn't God ever call people to Hawaii you guys got called to Alaska that's some just seems cold like how long

are you going to be there do you know well hopefully for a long long time okay and we won't come back to this town that's the other thing

we're not we're never coming back never so I like That's the other thing. We're not. We're never coming back. Never. Yeah. So I like to think of it this way. If you lived in Alaska, would you buy real estate to hang on to in this little town that you're in right now? The answer is obviously no.

So I would sell it and get out. And if you have to – I mean, that's why you have a realtor, that if you end up having to move before you sell it, great. That's their job, and they'll get it sold for you. I would challenge you to put as few things as possible in storage. Get rid of it. Sell it. Give it away. You're a pastor.

You know people who are hurting and in need of things. Get rid of it, man. Cut ties. Having a storage space in a city 5,000 miles away from where you live is just a recipe for anxiety. You never plan on visiting again. Exactly. If you get called to Hawaii or California or Texas or something, the worst part, can you imagine driving all the way to wherever to have to get your couches and your popcorn maker that you're still never going to use? You know what I mean?

It just becomes such a waste. Such a waste. Thank you so much for taking my call. And this will help because I'm talking it all over with my wife. She knows where we're from in Alaska. But the whole idea of selling it. And if I say, I have to talk to Dave Ramsey, that'll – because I was kind of thinking that way.

But thank you all. Yeah, tell him you talked to Dave. That'll help the conversation. Yes. Not John and I. George and I, man, when it's to our benefit, we say that we're Dave often. It helps a lot. God bless. Thank you.

Very cool. Let's go to Kia in Washington, D.C. What's up, Kia? Hi, how are you? Is it Kaya? Did I screw that up? I felt it in my heart. I'm sorry.

What's up, Kaya? I'm 22. I recently graduated from college heart. I'm sorry. What's up, Kaya? So I'm 22. I recently graduated from college with a degree in economics. I'm currently working in the defense industry, making $65K annually. Right now I'm putting 6% of my income into my 401K with an employer match of 5.5%. I'm saving around $2,700 a month until December. When I move out, I'll be only saving around $1,600 a month. Right now, I'm not quite sure what to do with this money I am saving. I have about $16,000 already saved in a high yield savings account and $7,000 in an investment

portfolio. So I'm just not sure if I should increase my 401k or just keep saving. Kaya, how did you get so smart? I'm just wondering on behalf of all 22-year-olds. Where did this come from? Well, I didn't have the best financial situation as a kid. So money when I was like 16-year-old was the main thing that I focused on.

And I started working at 16. I've been saving ever since. You're incredible. Hey, yeah. Before you jump into this, George, don't lose that. Okay. Kia, that's such a gift because it says to me that you looked in the mirror at some point and you said, this stops with me. And you, I had the, I had the opportunity to go to college and I got to watch my mom and dad had, they'd already blazed that trail. I got to learn hard lessons, but people were, had already blazed those trails ahead of me. And you had to go off in the woods by yourself and cut your own trails. And so you're an amazing young woman and please don't lose that. Okay. Thank you. The world needs more of you. Okay. Go ahead, George.

So Kaya, I'm assuming you have such a great head on your shoulders. Do you not have any debt? No, I don't. Love it. And you have an emergency fund as well on top of the 16K or is that included? No, that's including the emergency fund. Okay. So would you call three to six months of expenses about 15K? Yes. Okay. So there's really not a ton of wiggle room on top of your savings. You've basically gotten through baby step three, and now we're investing 15% of our income into retirement. And so I would up that 6% to start. Can you get to 15%? Yeah, I can. Okay. And is that a 401k? What's the retirement situation? Oh yes, it's a 401k. And then I have about two grand in a Roth IRA from years ago.

Awesome. Do they have a Roth 401k option? They do. Yeah. Awesome. Well, you can go ahead and invest all 15% into that Roth 401k and make it really simple. Okay. And then any money beyond that, we can start saving up for goals. Right now, you're just saving to save. I want you to have something you're aiming towards so that you can be a little more excited about it. So do you want to be a homeowner one day in your area? Yes.

Okay. So that would be my next goal. How can we start to save up 10%, even 20% down on a home in my area and start doing the math, crunching the numbers, and figuring out how we're going to get there? Right. Would that be your next goal? You got a good vehicle that's safe and reliable? Well, I've been driving in my 2009 Yaris for quite some time.

There you go. She's gone. That's great. Well, you may want to save up to replace that car in the next few years as well. So you can have different goals you're saving towards and just put it in ratios and say, I'm saving 15% to retirement. I'm going to put 500 bucks a month into a savings account over here to upgrade the car and another thousand a month towards the down payment savings so that three years from now,

I'm going to have 36,000 for a down payment. so that three years from now, I'm going to have 36,000 for a down payment. And so start setting those goals in every area. Kia, how old are you? 22. Okay. Common challenge for 22 year olds who are as driven and outside of the box as you are is the tendency to, you've been fighting for a long time. You've been doing things on your own for a long, long time. And now you've quote unquote, made it to this big goal. You got out of college, you got your job, you're debt free. And now you're having to do something you've never had to do before, which is to settle in. Okay. And so your next journey is not how to survive, not how to, um, win with money.

You're doing that. You are going to be, you're so far ahead of the game. It's unbelievable. You will be a multi multimillionaire and be able to give and live like very few people, you know, your challenge over the next two to three to four to five years is how can I become comfortable in Kaya's skin? How can I just settle in and do really, really good work and then have really great relationships outside of work? How can I laugh? How can I go hang out with friends? You see what I'm saying? This is going to be your new skill set because you are really, really good at driving, driving, driving, driving. What we want to do, like George said, we want to have a goal financially. We want to have a house. We want to get a car.

We want to have a, I don't know, just some arbitrary million dollar number in the bank account, whatever. We also want to have a life worth living. Right. We want to have people worth laughing with and weeping with. We want to have people that can show up at 2 a.m. We want to have neighbors that we can count on when the power goes out. And the power will always go out, right? So we want to have these financial goals.

We want to have professional goals. And we now want to begin to build a life worth living. And this is just your new adventure. Cool. You up for it? Yes. Time to go on vacation. That's awesome.

A vacation so good you forget to Instagram it. Now that is a cool goal. You just blew her mind. I don't think a 22-year-old can understand that, John. You did it. Yes, but I'm old. That's true. We'll be right back. សូវាប់ពីបានប់ពីបានប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពី Welcome back, America.

Big news. We are celebrating the one year anniversary of Borrowed Future's launch by premiering the documentary film on YouTube Monday, October 17th at 7 p.m. Central time with a watch party. That's right. Borrowed Future is our award-winning documentary that uncovers the dark side of the student loan industry. And we believe that every single high schooler and parent of high schoolers should watch this film. So make sure you share this with someone you know that needs it. You can follow The Watch Party on October 17th, and then you can view Borrowed Future on demand on YouTube for free. You're welcome, America.

Up until that point, it has been about $5 on our website, on Amazon Prime, wherever you watch stuff, Apple TV, Google Play. And it's still available there where you can rent it ad-free. And so if you want to watch it without ads, you can do it there. If you want to watch it with the ads, you can do that on YouTube, zero cost to you. So let's continue to disrupt the toxic student loan industry. Join us Monday night for our Borrowed Future Watch Party on YouTube. You can RSVP there right now for a reminder. Just go to our YouTube channel, hit RSVP. We'll send you a reminder. I know John and I, we're going to throw a little party

ourselves. A little popcorn? What do you think? Absolutely. When Monday rolls around, I usually stop and think, man, I need to get in front of YouTube. With the kids. With the kids. Yep. And watch a show. I'll bring my dogs. Correct. I think by the time my dogs are old enough, dog college will exist. A couple things. Artie does, and it's for puppies. And I'm just thinking back to my colleagues that still work at universities,

and it wouldn't surprise me if- If that was a thing. To get an email from somebody in admissions, university admissions, just saying, hey, could you house a pet? Kind of brilliant. Mr. Kamel would like to enroll his two pugs into the university. They're French bulldogs.

Give them the credit they deserve. They have flat faces. They ran into a wall. What would they study, George? You know, I think it would be culinary arts. They're very food motivated. If you ever are driving down the road and you think, I think we're going to be all right, just as a country, we're not.

I'm here to give you hope. Because of guys like this. Well, aside from that, if you have real actual humans in your house or you plan to, this is a must-watch documentary. And my friend Dr. John Deloney, he's featured in it, by the way. And you have some really great things to say. They edited around all the other stuff perfectly. There's nothing like doing a two or three hour interview

and four and a half minutes of it shows up, but it's good. It's so good. 88 minutes long. It will change the way you see college and further education. It will actually start some conversations with your kids and they'll be the ones starting it going,

wait, mom, is that true, mom and dad, that this whole thing is like a scam? And you're like, yes, son, absolutely. Well, and hey, my friends who work in higher ed, those, and I will defend them to the end of the earth, are great people trying to do the best they can, trying to help communities, help young people, help people coming back and want to change careers.

Watch this documentary. Because even if you disagree with it, this is what people are feeling. This is the other side of the conversation that I did not know existed when I lived in this world and it has been an eye-opening, jarring conversation on the other side of it.

So Monday, October 17th. Can't wait. 7 p.m. Monday, October 17th, Central Time. Tune in. Go RSVP on our YouTube channel and we'll be watching with you, America. Very cool. All right, let's go to Judd in San Antonio, Texas. The most San Antonio name I can think of. What's up, Judd?

Hey, guys. How are you doing today? Good. What's up? Hey, so we just moved to San Antonio, actually, from California, and we are working on Baby Steps 2. And one of the biggest things that we have in debt are our vehicles. One of them, I'm upside down a couple grand. The other one, I'm actually wearing a little bit of positive equity right now because of the way the market is right now. My question is, we have two kids and my wife and I both work, so we still technically need two cars. Would it be okay if I got rid of the more expensive vehicle, which would have the negative equity on it, and actually get a small personal loan to cover that negative equity to lower the amount of debt that I have or we have?

That is an option. It's not my or we have. That is an option. It's not my favorite option, but it is an option. The best option is for you to find the money and cover the difference in cash. But it is the only time we would tell you it's okay to go into debt is to fix this upside-down car situation by getting a personal loan from a credit union to cover the difference, and then we aggressively pay down that smaller loan that we now have. So how far upside down are you? I haven't gotten an exact number from a dealership, but going to like Kelley Blue Book or the other sites, I would be anywhere from, depending on what they actually give me for the car, anywhere from two to $6,000.

Okay. Put it on Facebook marketplace today. Try to cover the gap. If it's that close from $2,000 to $6,000. Okay. Put it on Facebook Marketplace today. Try to cover the gap. If it's that close from a dealer, I think you can sell it. Okay. Even if you come off even, Stephen. If you tell the person you're selling the car to, I'm just trying to pay this note off. So this is like I am walking away here.

We're high five and I'm going to walk away with zero and you're going to get a good deal on a car. You're going to sell that car this weekend. Okay. How much money do you guys have in the bank right now? That's never a good sign. Just a chuckle. That's not a funny question. We're working on baby steps right now,

so we're still trying to figure out our budget. Like I said, we just moved out here. Our income has dropped. Oh, you just moved from California to Texas. It's weird keeping all of your paycheck like this, right? You just have all this money. But if you check your checking account right now, between checking and savings, what's in there?

About $1,500. Okay, okay, that helps me. So the question is how quickly can we get another $500, another $1,500. Okay. Okay. That helps me. So the question is how quickly can we get another $500, another $1,000 in the door so that we don't have to take out a loan, even if there is a gap? Ideally, you can just sell it and you clear it. But if there is a gap, you should be able to cover that in cash pretty quickly. Sell stuff, side hustles, you name it. Okay. All right. Cool. So what's your debit card number, George? Oh, sweet. Let me make sure to give that to you on air, my friend.

Listen, you can do this, Judd. You can. You've already made one good decision, moving. And so now next good decision. Don't go further into debt. I still might consider selling the other car if you can make a profit on it and then just buying two cheaper cars because you're still going to need a car at the end of this. Yes.

So what's the profit you could make on that other car? Pretty much about what I would need to cover the other note. Okay. So you're saying a few grand? It could be four or five thousand. Okay. Because if you sell both, you're going to have zero cars. And so we have to think about, okay, how can we scrape together enough money so that if we sell both of these, we can buy two cheaper beater cars for now, you know, five grand each.

I do just have a very small Roth IRA, which has about $4,500 into it. Would you recommend pulling from that to pay off the balance? Never pull the money from retirement. It's a question of a desperate man. Don't do it. Okay. If you had non-retirement funds, like if they were just in a taxable brokerage account or some single stocks, I would tell you to cash those out.

But retirement, and you're going to face so many fees and penalties and taxes, it is not worth it. Okay. All right. Very good. You can do this, man. It's going to take a little bit of work and sacrifice, but sometimes we need to be humbled by driving the beater car for a while and going, yep, this is me acting my wage for now. I have been humbled for many, many, many years.

Hey, every time you hear someone do their debt-free scream on the show, it's because at some point they said, I've had it. I'm not living like this anymore. And when you get mad like that and then you do what they did, your life will change too. And right now, inflation and your stupid credit cards and your student loans and your car notes, it's killing you. You've been led to believe that you're not in control of your money and that that is wrong. You have to decide to control what you can control and that's you. The way you think about things and what you do, your actions. You have the power to change your future, and Financial Peace University will show you how. This course will teach you the proven step-by-step plan that's helped nearly 10 million

people beat debt, master budgeting, and build wealth. And you can do it too. We had a great meeting last night, George, with our new personality, our friend Jade. Paid off a billion dollars. $460,000. $460,000. You know what I love it? Just wiping the excuses off the table. Oh, yeah. Don't tell me you can't.

You owe $15,000. You owe $400,000. The steps work. The steps work. Stop letting debt and money stress control your life. Say, I've had it and take back your control. Start Financial Peace University at ramseysolutions.com slash FPU. ramseysolutions.com slash FPU. ДИНАМИЧНАЯ МУЗЫКА 888-825-5225. This is the Ramsey Show. I'm John Deloney, joined here by George Campbell. Let's go out to Noel in Newark, New Jersey.

What is up, Noel? Hey, guys. Thanks for having me on the show today. I found myself in a predicament. I'm following the Ramsey program and doing really well with it, I think. As it stands now, I should be completely debt free by April. And, um, I, I want to stay on track, but, um, a little bit of background of what's going on is I am a recovering alcoholic and, you know, drug addict and been in recovery for

30 years will be April. Uh, I got sober as a teenager. So, um, and, but what's happened is the 12 steps are kind of not doing it. I'm opening the door to more deeper issues, things with mother enmeshment, there's a intimacy anorexia, which is not a really sort of widely known topic, but it's something that requires professional help. And I'm seeking therapy with brain spotting, which is a version of EMDR. And all of these things are, um, you know, private pay, you know, insurance isn't going to cover this. And I've done enough of them to know that the answer is here and I need to seek this, uh, more, but there is no room in my budget. I mean, it's just, there's no room. And so the only option it looks like I have to do is to put it on a credit card. And, you know,

the therapy that I'm looking to do is making me have to need to pay like $900 to $1,000 more a month than what I'm physically able to afford with my full-time job. So let me, I'm going to walk through this backwards. Okay. My first statement is I'm proud of you. What you've done over the last 30 years is hard. Fair. Yes, sir. Cool. Um, and it's monotonous and it's every single day and it's every single hour and it's a beating. And we often, you know, like when you see somebody and you haven't seen them in 15 months or in three years and they've lost a lot of weight and you're like, Oh my gosh, you look great. And it happened to them every minute of every choice of the thing they didn't eat and every exercise they did. And it happened to them every minute of every choice of the thing they didn't eat and

every exercise they did. And, um, for you, you just see it all at once. And so I want to step back and just applaud you. It's hard what you've done. That's incredible. Um, and good for you for having the courage to go deeper, right. To actually get to the root of some of these things. And you've been controlling behavior and controlling thoughts for 30 years and now you're ready to heal right um that's hard and i've man i've been down the emdr rabbit holes i had i sat through a brain spotting session once it's um it's a it's incredible right it's amazing stuff um i would tell you a couple of things number, if you have found a therapy that you think is helpful and it's leading you in the right direction, choosing to not do that is not wise. Okay. And I think you've landed there. And I really challenge you. I disagree with your sentiment

saying that this stuff is forcing you to then make a decision that is going to hurt you, which is putting this on a credit card. That's addiction language. I have to do this so that I have, cause I have to do this. And this is just the predicament. That's I call bull crap on that. Okay. Is that fair? So we're going to take, just like we take alcohol out of the house. It can't be here, right? I can't have it here. We're going to take debt out of the house.

That isn't an option. So what else becomes an option? Do I have to drive for Uber just to pay for therapy? And let me be honest. I know what I'm telling you is nuts and I want to tell you I've been there. I've got to do extra things so I can afford the money

so I can just go to counseling. Okay, I've had to do that myself. Am I going to drive Uber? Am I going to take overtime? Am I going to stay late? Am I going to let other things go that have been a part of my healing journey because I need this medicine,

I need this therapy right now. And here's what my promise is. If you'll put the time in and you will begin, you'll work out a plan with your therapist on how we're going to make this work financially and how we're going to make this work in your life. It's little wins and you're going to have some skin in the game now. See what I'm saying? You are going to be taking above and beyond active approach in your mental health. And not just mental health. You're about healing.

This is surgery, right? This is getting in deep and getting out the infection that's been there for a long, long time. You're worth that extra effort. But blaming this on a shortcut that's going to end up costing you down the road is just going to loop you back into another mess. See what I'm saying? Yes. Yes. And that's what I was afraid of happening.

And, you know, I've been like, all right, what would Ramsey say? Which is basically the Ramsey solution, right? And nothing came up. So the ability to come here and talk about this. I'm also going to tell you, if you are in true need of what you're talking about, for those who don't know, EMBR, brain spine, you are talking about trauma healing.

And you are talking about intense trauma therapy for a short season. And so, I'll tell you, stop paying off your debt and get healthy. I wouldn't tell you to forego your heart care medicine, to keep paying on baby step two. No, dude, don't die.

That's number one, right? So let's get the trauma therapy you need. So stop paying on your debts for right now. Pause for a minute. And take two, three, four months to get well. I also will challenge your therapist. If they're charging you $900 a month cash pay. Well, it's different therapy.

Different providers, and you're having to go to multiple people and multiple things? Yes, yes. Okay. I would love for you to sit down with somebody and see if you can coordinate some of this care, meaning it may be that I'm going to do EMDR or brain spotting once a month, and I'm going to go to therapy on the other three. Would that work? I don't know the efficacy of what your particular issues are and what your particular needs are. It

may not work that way, but I want you to have that conversation, not just go, okay. And then the next one, okay. And the next one, okay. A part of my getting well, I ended up being a, I'm going to say a wisdom collector. I went to a counselor over here. I met with a coach over here. My buddy was a therapist, so I always hang out with him. I had a medical doctor friend. And dude, really, I needed to do the hard work.

Yeah. See what I'm saying? Yeah, no, I've been called out on that. Okay. Okay, so same team. I want you to take debt out of the house and then sit down with your therapist and be about building a plan that works for you both financially, both psychologically and both that works and altogether works through your life. And no, I'm going to gift you one year of Financial Peace University as well as every dollar premium, our budgeting tool. Because what it comes down to is if you're 900 bucks short,

and you're saying my life depends on getting this so that I can be well, then you're going to do whatever it takes to find that 900 bucks. And if that means cutting subscriptions, if that means driving for Uber, delivering groceries, dog sitting, babysitting, you name it, you're going to do it. And so that budget will start to show you where your options lie and where you can start shaving expenses and what that extra 200 bucks a month could do for your budget. And I mean, not eating out because we're going to meal plan so that we can afford this level of care. And so you're going to have to get really creative, but that FPU coupled with every dollar to really put that plan on paper and you stick to it because following that budget means you can get the care you need. That is the best reason to budget I've heard of today. There you go. And so we're going to

gift that to you for one year to help walk with you as you continue to heal from this. And hang on the line. And we'll also gift you a copy of Own Your Past, Change Your Future. It's my gift to you. And I want you to read that book, work through it, and then highlight the things that are important to you and bring those to your counselor. And they become good places to start, right? Good jumping off points to talk about. So thank you so much for your bravery. And golly, dude, you've been working hard for a long, long time. This dude is impressive.

Yeah. For the people who have not been in recovery for that long, it's just, it's a lot. It's so heavy and it's so hard and it's so every day. There's that old saying, you can never work out enough. Like you can't never have such a great workout on Monday that you don't have to get up

and do something on Tuesday and Wednesday, right? And I wish I could just put it all on the line on Monday and then be like, all right, that's my workout for October. I'm squared up. It's not how it works. And man, same thing with recovery. It's minute by minute, hour by hour for a long, long time. Daily battle. That'm squared up. That's not how it works. And man, same thing with recovery. It's minute by minute, hour by hour for a long

time. Daily battle. That's exactly right. Thanks to everybody in the booth for running the show, even James Childs. Thank you so much. Thank you, George, my co-host, and thank you, America, for listening to us. We've got one hour in the books. We will be back shortly on The Ramsey Show. Hey, it's John Deloney, co-host of The Ramsey Show.

Did you know over 18 million people listen to The Ramsey Show every week? A lot of those people listen on one of our 600-plus radio stations across the country. To find a station near you, go to ramseysolutions.com slash show. Hey, if you're a fan of this podcast, we've got more where that came from. As you know, at Ramsey, we're always looking to protect our listeners from scummy companies, slick marketing, and money myths. I'm George Camel, host of The Fine Print, where I do the research for you to help you rise above the system that's designed to keep you broke and in debt so that you can become confident in your money choices. Check out The Fine Print wherever you listen to podcasts.