The Ramsey Show - App - Is Dave's Money Advice Outdated? (Hour 1)

Episode Date: March 1, 2023

George Kamel & Dr. John Delony answer your questions and discuss: "My husband has been giving his family money behind my back", Getting rid of whole life insurance, "Why do you recommend actively managed funds vs. index funds?" from the blog: Understanding S&P 500 Index Funds, Is Dave's money advice outdated? "I was recently fired and don't know what to do next" Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET Want a plan for your money? Take our FREE 3 minute assessment: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6 Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Девочка-пай Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Pods Moving and Storage Studio, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Campbell, joined this hour by my good friend and my arch nemesis Dr. John Deloney best-selling author and host of the Dr. John Deloney show. You can listen to that wherever you listen to podcasts and on YouTube as well if you want to see John's face. It's a glorious face and hey we have a a wild studio audience today so it's good to see everybody. Yeah the camera can't even pan to capture all the people. It's just too

many. It's pretty wild. I don't know. I thought you guys had a job or something. If you want to visit us, we have room. That's all we're saying. This is the dead time after, you know, people's winter break. They're back in school. They're not traveling as much. Here's what's so good about you, George. You're able to look

at a situation like this and not immediately get existentially down on yourself. Well, there's millions of people listening. Not everyone's going to tune in to a radio show live from a lobby, but I want to let them know we're here. That's very true. And we appreciate you all tuning in. The number to call is 888-825-5225. You jump in, we'll talk about your life, your money, your relationships, your mental health, you name it. Melissa kicks us off in Tuscaloosa, Alabama. Melissa, welcome to the show. Hi. Hey, hey. How you doing? Glad to be here. We are so glad to have you.

What's going on? Well, I just found out that my husband's been giving my brother-in-law a large amount of money. I knew we were giving him some, but I just found out that it's a lot more than I thought. And he did kind of come clean about what he thought he'd given him. He's not been keeping track of it, but it's been in the thousands. And he's not, you know, been holding him accountable or anything, just giving him the cash. So what did you guys agree on originally when you talked about this and you said, hey, I'm cool with this, it's going to be how much a month? We didn't really agree. He just, he would, you know, I knew that my brother-in-law needed something,

he had given him something, you know, and I don't know that, we didn't really like sit down and say, okay, this is what we need to give him. I just knew that he had given him something. We all have the same account, he and I have the same account, sit down and say okay this is what we need to give him I just knew that he had given him some we all have the same account he and I have the same accounts we all have each you know that log in so I could have logged in and kind of found this out early I just don't typically check behind him like that because I've never had the need to are you frustrated at yourself are you frustrated at at him or at both? I guess both, but I know my brother-in-law is in need. I just don't.

He said from here forward, he will tell me everything that he gives him. You know, we'll agree to it and all that kind of stuff. I think that's a recipe for disaster for you too. Oh, really? Yes. I think you need to set up a set amount on this end of it

and a set of values for which we will put money towards and those which we will not. Because him just telling you what he's spending, you are going to slowly, the resentment is just going to start moving up like a thermometer until it finally blows. And he's going to look at you and say, what? I told you.

And you will have felt like you were setting money on fire in the living room. And so I think you guys need to have the hard conversation, you and your husband, that he didn't lie to you, but you don't feel like he told you the whole. Like this is out of character for him to give somebody five or ten thousand dollars and not mention the number right so it's a little bit shady and if you called him on it he would say i told you i was giving him money and so here you are i think we i think you turn all the lights on you turn the music off stop the party and say you gave ten thousand dollars this is out of. You knew deep down that I would have had a problem with how much you were giving him. And if you say I wouldn't keep in track, come on, man. And so we did have the conversation. We did go through all that. Okay. And he did. And

basically what he said was, I was wrong. I should never do that. Good for him. You know? Yeah. And, and I, you know, and I said, this is so out of character for you, you know, because it really is. Or so I thought we've been married nearly 25 years. And I said, it's just, you know, he's always had a good mindset about money and accountability. And, you know, he agreed that we have just one daughter and she's grown, you know, in her 20s. And I said, you would never just give her thousands and not make her accountable why is it okay to give your brother that and he just feels really sorry for him and i do too you know he's yeah and um and so i just i want to i don't really know

like this you know point forward like i would should we hire hire a third party? Nope. This is about y'all being grownups. I'm going to put words in your mouth, so feel free to not use these exact words. I would say something along the lines of, hey, I've had a couple of days to think on our conversation and I'm really grateful that you took ownership of what you did. That means a lot to me. I'm not in a place yet where I feel safe and make it all about you. This is not about him. This is about you. I don't feel safe. Um, just saying, we're just going to do this however, whenever. And so let's come up with

a number that we're going to say this, what we're going to give him. And let's talk about when we're going to give it to him, how we're going to give it to him, why we're going to give it to him. And the conversation husband, you need to have with your brother about this is it, or we will, we will come back to the well, but he's going to have to make a presentation, whatever makes you feel safe and comfortable, but let's put some boundaries on this thing. Let's put some, um, uh, let's put some very clear parameters on this before it gets going any further. Melissa, there's three steps. Number one is what John said. It's between you two and communication. And what happened here was you had a thought that you thought was communication,

but there was no expectation set out loud. And so we need to do that, number one. Number two, he needs to have the conversation with the brother, setting the boundaries of what this looks like. Very clearly what this looks like, when it's going to end, how much, all the things John said. And number three, you guys need to get on a written plan, a budget that both of you have agreement on, that both of you look at every month. It's not he does it, I look at it once a month to see what happened in the past.

That is a recipe for disaster. And so I'm going to gift you every dollar premium for one year to make this really easy for you all to do a budget every single month and stick to it. And then it becomes, hey, guess what? That giving to the brother, it was in the budget. So there's no money fights about this anymore. It's that simple. That sounds good. Is that cool? And before we let you go, Melissa, are you an Alabama fan? I have to be living here.

That's true. You can't be swimming upstream. I was hoping you were going to stand strong, but I should have known, Melissa. I should have known. We love you anyways, Melissa. We love you anyways. Wow. Well, this is a very common conundrum where money and relationships get involved and it usually stems around communication well and also i think it's she called something out that's really important for everybody listening um i can the roles we play in our life are almost always environmentally specific what i mean by that i had a reputation in my professional life of being really frugal, like obnoxiously frugal, always

coming in on budget or under budget. In my private life, my wife is like, wow, you are a co-host of Ramsey show. And this is how you do this. So he was a financially secure guy. He always was really diligent and intentional. But when it came to the love between him and his brother, he kind of went crazy and became somebody he didn't want to be. So when you catch somebody in a different role, let's bring them back to home base and say, this is who we're going to be moving forward. And this is my expectation for you. And I love that you got to write it down. You got to be clear and then you got to move on. That's wisdom. Hey, more of your calls coming up. 888-825-5225. This is The Ramsey Show.

Hey, you guys. Health insurance costs are only moving one way, and that way isn't down. And if higher costs aren't enough, the wait times to see your doctor are longer, and it's harder than ever to get anything approved through the bureaucracy. So, if you feel like the system is working against you, try a biblically-based alternative to health insurance, Christian Healthcare Ministries. CHM is a health cost-sharing ministry that's helped hundreds of thousands of families like yours take care of over $11 billion in medical bills since 1981. And CHM has also helped them stay true to their values and avoid miles of red tape.

And CHM support goes far beyond meeting financial needs. They'll also help meet spiritual needs. Members become part of a family who will pray with them and for them when they experience a medical event. So listen, y'all, there's no better way to take care of health care costs. CHM programs start as low as $98 a month. So learn more today and join at chministries.org slash budget at chministries.org slash budget. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined this hour by Dr. John Deloney. Open phones at 888-825-5225. You jump in, we'll talk life, money, mental health, relationships, whatever is on your mind. Amber joins us up next in Seattle. Amber, welcome to the show. Hello, thanks for having me. Absolutely. What's going on? Okay, so me and my husband, we grossed last year $84,672. We've been debt-free

since 2017, so that's pretty good, but we kind of got sidetracked a little bit as we're in 2023, and we're still working the baby steps. So my question today is is we both have a whole life insurance policy. Um, we pay $7,548 a year for this policy. Ouch. Um, yeah. So, um, at best, um, my husband would get, I don't have my numbers in front of me, but he would get 600,000, no, sorry, at worst, um, because there's the paid up additions. Um, I'm sure you guys know about those, but, um, with that, uh, so at worst, because there's the paid-up additions. I'm sure you guys know about those. But with that, so at worst, you would get $600,000.

At best, you would get $1.269 million. And that's with, in our policy, we would get the paid-up additions or that cash value. Well, that paid-up additions would be added in. So that's part of our policy. So if you canceled it today, what would you get? If we got cash value today, it'd be $32,000. Okay. And what's your question today? So that's the cash value.

And I mean, his would be, so we're right at that six-year mark. So his would be, the death benefit would be $219,000. So my question is, and my debt is kind of telling me to cancel that as soon as possible, use that $32,000 to finish up our baby steps, which is $5,461 to finish that up, and then we'll have a fully loaded emergency fund. So that's kind of what I'm leaning towards, but, you know, having some reassurance is always nice. We also have a term life insurance policy. Both of us have $400,000 each for that. I've talked to the rep and he kind of recommends getting a little bit higher and canceling that $400,000 one and then doing $500,000 for me and $750,000 for my husband.

Is that closer to 10 times, 12 times your incomes? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I think that's the, that's the move and make sure that you have those term policies in place before you cancel. Uh, and I think you're exactly right. What you're feeling right now is the emotion of sunk cost fallacy where you went, we fell for this thing. We've been paying so much into it and we could have had 1.2, but now we're going to have $30,000 and this sucks. And this is what we call a stupid tax where you go, that was dumb. Shouldn't have fell for it. And I'm going to get term life. It's going to be a fraction of the cost. What are you paying for term life? It's like $530 a month right now, or a year, sorry. A year. That sounds more like it. And so right now you're paying $625 a month for those whole life policies.

And you could be paying $500 a year for the same amount of coverage. Yeah. And so with the difference, you can use that towards the baby steps, the amount that you're saving every month. You can go invest that. You can use it to live your best life and not fall for these stupid whole life scams again. Yeah. I guess my next question would be,

once we have gotten that third baby step, we rent right now for about $1,200 a month, which is pretty much unheard of in Washington. That's a good deal. And it's a four bedroom. Yeah. A four bedroom house. Yeah.

Oh my goodness. So my husband's a teacher and he kind of gets some benefits for working at the school system. But, so I mean my husband's a teacher and he kind of gets some benefits for working at the school system but so i mean it's a really great opportunity as far as our rental is concerned but um we want to eventually buy so because we don't have that mortgage um where do we like do we keep putting money into like the baby steps the 15 and slowly building up a down payment or do we just shove a bunch of money towards a down payment? So we have a baby step that's hidden in there called baby step 3B, where you can save aggressively for the down payment before you start investing if you'd like.

And so if you can do that in under two years and have that down payment in place, that's great. Some people go, you know what, I'd rather get started investing. I'm going to invest up to the match and whatever's beyond that we can put towards the down payment. Some people go, I'm going to do all 15%, whatever's left, we're going to invest up to the match. And whatever's beyond that, we can put towards the down payment. Some people go, I'm going to do all 15%. Whatever's left, we're going to put towards that down payment. Obviously, that's going to slow you down a little bit on the down payment side. But it's all about your goals and how quickly you want to get into a home. And if you're happy with your rent right now and you'd rather get to investing,

you can split the difference. Amber, while you and George were talking, I ran a few numbers here. Love when John does math. Yeah, the world needs Deloney to do more math. So let's say you had $0 in investments, and did you say it was about $7,500 a year y'all were putting in? Mm-hmm.

Is that each or just individually? Total. Total, okay. For both of us, yeah. So if I divide that out by 12, that's 629 bucks a month. Okay. That you're putting in, right? Yep. At a 10% annual return, which is a little less than what the stock market has been over the last 50 years, you would end up with $4.8 million. I know I'm like kicking myself because pictures has made a big difference. It's like $1.2 million.

Right, but you see how it just feels like, okay, like max, we can get 1.2. And you can see why Dave is so adamant and has been for years, get out of those products. Because here's the part that's infuriating. Somebody's making 4.8. It's just not you.

Right, right. You're going to make 800 and you're going to hand 4 million of your dollars to somebody else. And they're going to say, thank you. I will apply this to my third yacht. Appreciate you. Yeah. Right. So good for you. Good for you. Way to go, Amber. We're cheering you on, on the journey. Appreciate the call. Let's move on to Jackson in in tampa florida jackson welcome to the show miss jackson i apologize what's up i was i was expecting it as soon as i heard john was on the call and i knew i knew it was coming i am i almost wanted to give you a different name just so john wouldn't have that opportunity hey man my name rhymes with

the lunch meat dude we we're all on the same team here. What's up, man? Yeah, I just was wondering, I know Dave recommends mutual funds over like the low cost index funds. And from my limited knowledge, I was thinking that the index funds typically outperform when you take into account the fees. So I was wondering kind of what the math is behind the recommendation. It's a great question. And it's one we get a lot around here. And we actually just recently had a meeting where we actually walked through the numbers on this and it was showing us the charts from the last 30 years. And truthfully, let me just say this, Jackson, up front, you can be a multimillionaire either way. And so this is a very nuanced conversation. We're not talking about crypto versus index funds or single stocks versus mutual funds.

We're talking about something that is very similar, where you have a group of stocks all together, and the index is just saying it's going to be passively managed, which is why you have a lower cost on your expense ratios. That's what you're talking about, correct? Yeah. Yes, sir. Yeah. And so with the actively managed mutual funds, there can be an upfront fee.

There can be a higher expense ratio. And the idea here is there are very smart people actively managing those portfolios and choosing those stocks in order to beat the index. Does it beat them every time, every year? No. But can it over time? And can you choose the right ones? It's definitely possible. And you can pull the numbers, you the numbers a lot of different ways.

I thought that was it Vanguard? Somebody just came out with a study. And again, I don't want to misquote somebody, but it was an index fund company that came out and said, hey, they beat us by 3%. And they were honest about it, which is really cool. They had a study that said if you work with an advisor, that you will have an on average,

I think about a 3% higher return long term. Which I hold in high esteem. I hold them in high esteem for having the courage to come up and not bury that. They said, hey, we have a great product here, but if you get with a good team, they can outperform us. Isn't that almost the opposite of what's been kind of in the past? As far as what? Like Random Walk Down Wall Street. Like if you read the book Random Walk Down Wall Street. Like if you read the book Random Walk Down Wall Street

or something like that. Yeah, I mean, if you look at, you know, there's the Bogleheads out there. There's the people who follow kind of Warren Buffett's train of thought. And if you just put your money into a Vanguard index fund and do that consistently,

then yes, you will become a millionaire and you'll be just fine. For the people that we're talking to, on average, if they do it themselves, they're going to do something stupid along the way. They're going to pull their money out early. They're not thinking about tax advantages. They're not thinking about estate planning. And so that's why we recommend working with an advisor when you have that level of wealth. There's just more to manage. And let me tell you this, Jackson. Everybody thinks the rules don't

apply to them. I'm a pretty smart guy. I've accomplished some cool stuff in my life. And once a quarter, my SmartVestor Pro will call me and say, do not open your mail. You don't need to see it because then I'm going to start hassling them. I'm going to want to move this and get out of this. And I know not to.

And I still, so hard, I can't help it. So I need a coach, man. It's accountability. I've got to have somebody in my corner. Absolutely. If you're just using a SmartVestor Pro to just choose a fund, then you're missing the point. It's way bigger than that. And there's nothing wrong with index funds. We're big fans of those. We just find that you can beat them

over the long run. So thanks for the call, man. This is The Ramsey Show. This is The Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel, co-piloted with my friend Dr. John Deloney this hour. Co-piloted with? That's a word, I think. Wow. Listen, this is why you have two PhDs, and I'm just a guy, all right? Nope, I'm happy to be co-piloted with you. Well, speaking of education, John, BuzzFeed is where I get all of my information.

And this article came across the old desk here and i thought you would like it as i know you you don't look at a lot of buzzfeed i'm a huge buzz buzzfeed fan well here's the headline um with what money millennials and gen z are sharing the money tips they think are super outdated considering the fact we're all super broke very relatable very empathetic on buzzfeed's part i i see why this is so popular. So I want to read a few and get your commentary, if you will. Here's one. Someone said, anytime someone tells me to save money, I automatically roll my eyes.

I would love to be able to have a savings of some kind. But with inflation twerking all over the place, it's impossible, especially when my son keeps growing out of his clothes every other month. Even thrift store prices are getting ridiculous what do you think John I think this is a case of the great bernie brown says whatever you go looking for in the world you're sure to find and so sometimes instead of staring at the reality the totality of our reality and that i realize that rhymes and i should probably be an artist a poet um if you got to look at all of your reality including where you live what you're doing for a living what is reality for

you right now i wish i had all this extra time with my kids but right now we're broken we i can't afford that time right now because I've got to go get another job. And it's hard, heartbreaking conversations people have and have. Then somebody says, hey, you need to pay your bills. You need to work to save some money. It's easy to laser in on that one little word, save, and blow up all of the truth and wisdom in that sentiment because that particular thing doesn't apply to you

in this particular hard season that you're in. It's an easy way to avoid reality. And so everyone should be saving money and not everybody can right now. Both of those things are true. And so if that's not you right now, don't roll your eyes, exhale and say, I'm going to work really hard and get there. Right. That's good. And that's why our baby steps are one at a time focused intensity. So we only want you to save a thousand dollars when you get started. No more because it is overwhelming and you have to sell some stuff. It's going to be super uncomfortable, not fun. Anybody who goes into this thing, that's going to be a blast is missed the point completely. It's not going to be. All right, here's another one.

Someone said, sell your car and get a cheaper, older one. This is terrible advice. Repairs and unreliable transportation are a financial nightmare. And again, that's somebody saw the word cheaper, older one, the words cheaper, older one, and they immediately went to, it falls apart and you can't have a cheaper, nonsense. In their mind, they're picturing like a 1970s Oldsmobile. Right. Or they're picturing something that's not even real.

They're not picturing anything. They're just trying to pull apart an argument, right? What this is saying is, let me say this in a different way. You don't deserve, there's no cosmic right to a new car. There's no cosmic right to the car of your dreams. That's why they call it of your dreams because it's not real. It's not a real thing. Well, new cars are an all-time high. And so what they're saying is, hey, instead of driving something older that's going to catch on fire on the interstate because someone drove it before me,

I'm going to drive a brand new $45,000 car under the guise of safety and reliability. Right. Instead of, I want it because it makes me feel good and I want to look good. That's right. And this argument is particularly challenging when someone brings it to you or me because both of us are not car people. We've always driven used cars. We always drive old used cars.

I bought my first new car, I think ever, the other day. Wow. At what age? At 45. And so there we go. I made it, right? And so all I have to say is like, man, you can have a great, wonderful, wonderful, great life with a old, cheaper used car.

Absolutely. And there's no such thing as, well, it's going to have way more repairs and it's unreliable. Do an inspection. Get a Honda or your favorite Toyota. And it'll run forever. What did you used to call them? Toyota. I do it like Yoda from Star Wars and James gets mad at me. Well, so does America. Sorry. It's my Arabic accent coming out, James. Sorry. All right. Here's one for you, John. I'm so sick of hearing that I should buy a house right now just to have one. Maybe that was a great idea a few years ago, but houses in my area are currently selling for at

least double, maybe even triple what they were three years ago. Also, along with home ownership comes the regular and irregular costs that can range from basic utilities to needing a whole new roof. It's just not realistic or even logical. This one, I actually agree with. Well, let me... That everyone needs a house and you should be in a house and why aren't you in a house and renting is a sin. But I don't like the first sentence. I've never heard somebody say, you need a house just to have one.

Nobody says that. That is twisting an argument to make it sound a little bit off kilter, a little bit dumb, so that then you can pull it apart. Just be honest. A lot of people, particularly our parents' age, say if you rent something, you're just throwing your money away. I've heard that multiple times from people a generation or two ahead. Well-meaning people. Exactly. And in their world, that was accurate. In our world, it's not. Renting is a wise thing. I've rented at every stage of my life. Every time me and my wife move and me and my kids

move, we rent until we get set right. So just like you said, you're exactly right. It's not logical or realistic for a lot of people right now. Cool. Make peace with it. Smile. And that's okay. Now, should it be a long-term goal? I think it's a great goal to have long-term. Does it need to happen tomorrow? No. There's great flexibility. There's great wisdom. You're offloading the risk onto someone else and you're paying for the privilege of all of that. That's right. That's a good one. All right. Have three to six months worth of expenses in your account in case of emergency. That's great. But when I can barely make all my bills each month, what money am I supposed to be saving? So they agree with the advice that you should have a savings account, an emergency fund, but they're angry that people

are recommending this as if it's something they can just go do. And the conversations I've had around this very issue over my career, most of the people in my career that I've hired, it was their first or second job. They were new to the job world. And so there was an expectation that now that I've got this degree and this position at this university, this degree with this many years of experience, the world's just going to hand me this much money. And unfortunately, often, this is what this job paid. And so it was less about where's all this money I'm supposed to be saving and more about sitting back and going, okay, I wanted to do this career and I wanted to make this much money. Right now, the world isn't paying

this much money for this career. I need to have a hard conversation with, am I gonna change my, am I gonna reduce how much I spend? Am I gonna get a new job? Am I gonna move? Right, all incredibly hard conversations. But the idea that I went and did a thing,

I got this education, I got this training and I wanna live here and I wanna work there and I wanna and did a thing. I got this education. I got this training and I want to live here and I want to work there and I want to make this much money. Those three things are not automatic and they often don't work together. And man, we have a culture that's having a hard time reconciling those three things. Well, they were sold a lot of lies and now they're met with a harsh reality. Right. And so the gap between those two just keeps getting wider. I watched Friends. I want to work in a retail store, have a 4,000-square-foot apartment in downtown. It's just not real.

I've been watching Seinfeld. Kramer is unemployed the entire series, and the guy lives in a New York apartment. Across the hall from a comedian, right? Gosh, what a sitcom. All right, last one for you, John. This is very close to home. Someone said, the majority of Dave Ramsey's financial advice, especially if you're working on paying off debt, This is very close to home. Someone said, The majority of Dave Ramsey's financial advice,

especially if you're working on paying off debt. The only time you should see the inside of a restaurant is if you're working there. With the student loan crisis as it is, my $20 meal at a restaurant once a month isn't going to make a difference in whether I pay off $50,000 in student loans. I've paid my loans every single month, and right now I owe more than I originally took out 10 years ago,

all due to student loan interest. I'm done with the shaming and being told I don't deserve a life or the ability to be out in public. That's right. That's always been Dave's advice. You're not allowed to be out in public, John. Yeah, Dave's big on shaming people and telling them they don't deserve a life. I think he's in Cabo right now, if I'm not mistaken. I think so.

Last we checked. I mean, again, this is someone who's struggling and is upset and I'm not going to be mad. Well, because to them, all they have in life, John, is this takeout meal. That's it. That's all they're left with. But it's a symbol. It's saying, what are you willing to sacrifice right now that will add up to where you have 500 bucks that month and then 600 bucks the next month to where you can be debt free one day. $20 against 50,000. That's right.

That's good math. That's not how often people go to restaurants. That also doesn't take into account the hours you could be working instead of sitting in that restaurant earning more the other way. Right. So anyway, there's a whole different conversation here. This is just a tough spirit to work through. And if you have this attitude heading into any problem in your life, you're not going to get it solved. This fatalistic attitude isn't going to get us anywhere.

So we've got to change our attitude, change our behavior, change our thoughts. We're rooting for you all out there. This is The Ramsey Show. This is The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Deloney this hour. And we're taking your calls at 888-825-5225. Hey, George, this is awesome. I heard about this news, John.

It's big time. I'm hoping I can get an invite to this. What's going on? You will not be invited. Every time I talk about this event, I get more fired up because it's going to be fantastic. Money and Marriage is back, and this time, instead of just one night, it's going to be an entire weekend. We're going to set up a marriage retreat. This fall, me and Rachel Cruz are going to be here in Nashville for the Money and Marriage Getaway.

An entire weekend unplugged from your day-to-day life, simply focusing on your marriage. Here's the deal. It's in October. You have time to start planning now. Financially, you have time to start planning for childcare. Figure it out. You got a long runway on this one. And by the way, if you are three months into the new year and you've already blown it completely, this is a great way to pick up the back half of your year. Okay. I guess the back, the final quarter of the year, we're going

to cover things like money and budgeting with your spouse we're going to talk about connection sex and intimacy kids the whole thing and we'll get you planning for your future together and this isn't what you think of when you think of a marriage conference you're going to learn a ton but we're also going to give you and your spouse time together throughout the weekend to reflect on and discuss what you're learning and rachel and i will be there to coach you and answer your questions and we've got some rad surprises along the way. This is Nashville. It's going to be fun. We have friends and guests going to show up.

It's going to be a blast. If you're listening and this sounds like something you and your spouse need, talk to your spouse about this. Tickets are $6.99 a couple, which is a deal if you've ever been to a three-day marriage conference. It's a great experience, a deal, especially here in Nashville. $6.99 a couple. Go to

ramsaysolutions.com slash events to save your spot. ramsaysolutions.com slash events. Love it. Pump for that. And you and Whitney can go.

I'll get y'all half-price tickets. I'll take that. I don't often get a deal from you, so thank you for thinking of us. I'll get you in. I'll get you in. I hope so. Well, hey,

if you're a new listener to the show and you've been hearing us talk about these baby steps and 3B and six and what's going on here, we want to give you a deeper dive on this at ramsaysolutions.com. All you need to do is click on that get started button and we'll help you figure out what that next best step is for your financial journey based on your situation and where you're at today. That's ramsaysolutions.com and click on the get started button. Sorry about that, man. I sneezed right when you were doing that, man. It's all right.

I'm used to it. I mean, you have a mute button just for everyone listening out there. I used it. John could have stopped it. It just comes through your microphone and then somebody's driving thinking they just blew a tire while they're going down the road. That was me. That was me.

Oh, boy. All right. Let's go to the phones. Adam joins us in Buffalo, New York. Adam, welcome to the show. George, Dr. John, thank you very much for taking the call. I appreciate it. Sure.

What's your question today? So I was recently fired from my job of 14 years. Oh, man. Can we pause right there for a second? Go ahead. What was your job? I worked for a pet food manufacturer. If you ever gave your dogs, like, the most popular pet food treats on the planet,

I made them for you. Wow. Well, on behalf of George's two dogs that he treats better than I treat my kids, thank you. Their food budget's bigger than mine. Pretty awesome. And in all seriousness, you've probably heard me or Ken say this, but the research data says that when you get fired from your job,

it's as devastating to your body as losing a loved one. It's overwhelming. It's hard. And so I know it's real easy to be like, all right, I'm back on the, like, man, it sucks. And I'm sorry. Like, just as your friend, I'm sorry. Them first few days were really rough. I pretty much stayed in my room in the fetal position, trying to figure out what I was going to do with my future. And that's what I'm coming to you guys with today is what do I do moving forward from this? I don't want to work for anybody else. I'd rather start my own business.

I'm not leaving there empty-handed. And I use the baby steps to get myself out of debt and actually save up. And I'm doing well for myself. It's just what do I do now? actually save up. And I, I'm doing well for myself. It's just, what do I do now? I'm lost. Very cool, man. Um, well, congratulations for setting yourself up for this moment. Um, so I guess the magic questions are, what do you want to do? Well, here's the problem. The thing that I'm kind of passionate about and that I want to do is one of the highest failure businesses there is.

I'd like to go into the restaurant business. Okay. Tell me about it. I was, uh, I was looking at two different properties. Uh, one's worth about 320,000 and the other one's worth about 250,000 and, uh, both of them are turnkey establishments ready to go. One I'd have like a 45-minute commute to. The other one I'd have, you know, a five-minute commute to. But one's got a lot better population density and would draw in more people. The other one's closer to home and where I'm more known and have a good name. I'm scared to dive head into this. You should be. Yeah. You should be. You should be.

Yeah, you should be. I don't think that that being your next move is super wise. I'd much rather see you go get a job in a restaurant and work your way around that restaurant to make sure this is what you want to do before you go sink a quarter of a million dollars into something. You're going to find yourself. I get it. I get it. I get it. I failed to mention I did work in a restaurant when I was 19 years old.

I did bus tables and I washed dishes and I enjoyed the environment and stuff like that. But moving into a management role and learning every single position. Yes. That's I think the on-the-job training would be smart. And I'm actually looking at that option, but at the same time, I don't want to miss out on an opportunity to buy a place that's not going to be there a year. Do you have the cash right now to buy that place? Right now, liquid, I'm worth, I have $96,000 in an individual investment account. I have $140,000 in a 401k.

We're not touching that. We're not going to withdraw that to start this business. All right. And I have $51,000 coming in a pension from Nestle, my former employer, which I was going to cash that out and start the business because that's not really going to grow much more where it's at. But you would get a $51,000 check straight to your account and you can do what you want with? Yes. So I'm basically worth $150,000 liquid right now plus $15,000 in my emergency fund.

So let me say this. If Dave called me right now on my cell phone and said, hey, John, a buddy of mine is selling his $10 million property and he's my friend and he's going to sell it for two. It's a deal. It's an $8 million discount, but I don't want it. But I know you and your wife are looking for some other property. I got this for you. Give him a call and it's yours for 2 million. I would have to tell them that's the deal of a lifetime that would change my family's future. And I don't have $2 million, so I can't buy this thing. So you've got a deal in your head and you don't have the money to even close that deal, regardless of whether it's a good deal or not. And I don't think it's wise to do it. I would love to see you spend six months, begin to heal

from getting laid off, learn the restaurant industry in your area, get tied in. You did this when you were 19. I did stuff when I was 19. You know what else I did when I was 19? I went running a lot. I used to do jujitsu. I can't even touch my toes anymore, man. So we change over time. I'd love to see you get back in there and slow play this a little bit. You got some money so that if things get tight, you're going to be able to pay your bills. You've done all the right things. Don't race out. Basically, what you're doing is you just got a divorce.

Don't run in and marry the first person you just meet. Don't do that. Spend some time healing. Spend some time dating a little bit, and then you're going to find somebody. And talk to other restaurant owners and see how they did it and the ones that you respect. And maybe you scale this thing up. Maybe it starts with, hey, I'm going to do a food truck. I'm going to buy a truck with cash and I'm going to do this to see if it's a viable option. And I'm going to scale up to a restaurant once we have enough business. Maybe it's a crowdfunded thing. Who

knows what you could do and how much money you could save for the future. But right now, this being like, it's now or never, man, I got the opportunity. That is when a bad decision gets made that, and we see these sad stories. You've probably heard of them, these business owners. And you said the restaurant industry, high turnover rate for these things failing. And when you do it with debt, it just adds insult to injury because now you have a failed business and a pile of debt to deal with. And those are the saddest situations. About one of the properties that was kind of making me lean towards it was there's an apartment above. And if I put $100,000 down on a mortgage payment for this place

and rent the apartment out above, the apartment above actually pays the mortgage payment on it. And then I'm playing with house money, right? Where are you living? Well, currently right now I live at my brother's house. Okay. That's not a good long-term plan. I think we've got to pause on this whole situation.

I want it for you long-term. I love this dream. I wouldn't do it. I can hear it in your voice. You're going to do it anyway. I'm just telling you. When this thing goes sideways, call me and George, and we'll be here for you.

We're not even going to be mean to you. But the chance of this not working is strong to quite strong, man. Take care of yourself. Thanks for the call. That puts this hour of The Ramsey Show in the books. My thanks to my co-host, Dr. John Deloney, all the guys in the booth, and you, America. Appreciate you listening. We'll be back real soon. Hey, it's George Camel. If you like what you heard in this episode and want to know more about getting started on the Ramsey Baby Steps, go to ramseysolutions.com and click on the Get

Started button. We'll help you figure out the best next step for you based on your specific situation. That's ramseysolutions.com and click Get Started.