The Ramsey Show - App - Is It Too Late for Me To Change Jobs? (Hour 2)

Episode Date: July 5, 2022

Dave Ramsey & Ken Coleman discuss: How to fix a major loss at your company, Is it ever too late to change jobs? Helping a grandchild in college. Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, host of The Ken Coleman Show and author of the number one bestseller, From Paycheck to Purpose. He is my co-host today as we answer your questions and help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Garrett is going to start us off this hour. He is in Sioux Falls, South Dakota.

Hi, Garrett. What's up? Mr. Ramsey, it's an honor to ask you how you are. Better than I deserve, sir. What's up? Good to hear. Well, the company I work for, I think, might be in trouble. For the last five, ten years, we've've done 10 to 12 million dollars in revenue made five

to ten percent every year this year we're showing negative 1.6 million dollars bottom line cash flow is good um i just i don't know what to do uh you own the company You said you work for them. I work for them. I work pretty closely with the owner. Okay. What do you do? So I'm a project estimator, project manager. I'm trying to help with the financials. I've followed your principles.

I'm debt-free. I'm trying to bring them into the company. I'm in talks with NetSuite right now to get them set up with our company. And we're just trying to understand how we're showing $1.6 million in loss right now. Our basic expenses are payroll, fuel, and repairs. Well, let's start with a simple equation that profit is created by revenue minus expenses, right? Yes, sir. So what's down or what's up expenses up and revenues down what's the deal i think for the revenue for this time of year is down quite a bit um i think expenses for hourly rates have gone up. We do hourly jobs and we do bid jobs. For the bid jobs, we show positive profit for that job.

You're an estimator. If your hourly has gone up on individual jobs, that's a variable expense. That should be built into the job cost. Correct. Have you not added it to the job cost and added profit on top of it? Hourly that can be costed out, job costed to a job, you as an estimator know that that should not have sunk you. It should have just raised the cost to the customer. Right. right and there are several divisions in our company and i've i will spend a few times or a

few days analyzing our hours for last year and marking that against our um our overhead for the year and those rates seem pretty high and sometimes they're just not used and they go with their gut feeling um because if we charge you know four hundred dollars for a dozer they're just going to tell us no so we have to try and no no it's good if you're losing a hundred dollars when you charge 400 you'd have been better off to park it so you don't lose money when it's parked okay i mean i don't if if the rate if the cost of the dozer operator now makes the rate for a dozer 500 and you're only charging 400 that's why you're losing money you haven't raised your prices after your labor cost went up okay am i missing something no sir so better off not to work for those companies if they

won't accept our rates exactly because guess what everybody's got the same problem you got you didn't just pay your dozer operators way more than everybody else the cost of a dozer operator went up i got the same thing internally except i don't have dozer operators i've got developers i got programmers the tech world uh and you know the only thing they're dozens ones and zeros but they're dozing them and so uh but the uh you know the cost of a developer has gone up dramatically in 24 months and guess what that's going to be reflected in what you guys pay to go to a remse whatever you know because i you know i'm going to pass the business owners pass those costs along corporations don't lose money they raise their prices companies don't hourly rates we need to project how much overhead we think we're going to have for the year

and then project how many hours we're going to use that dozer floor and then divide that and then add 10% to that, and then that's what we should charge. Yeah, what most companies do, and you're an estimator, so you probably already know all this, but what most companies do is they say, okay, here's the cost of goods sold. Here's the materials, the equipment usage, and the labor associated with the job. Okay, and that's the dozer, the dozer operator, the fuel, the truck cost to move the dozer to the site. Okay, all of that is job-costed. You know what I'm saying, right, Garrett? Yep.

Okay, then most companies, in addition to that, will allocate an overhead percentage to that job. And you can determine the overhead percentage however you want. You can do it based on gross revs and say, okay, we got a $10 million gross rev. This is a million-dollar job. So this job gets 10% of our overhead. You see how I did that? Yep. A pro rata allocation of overhead to each job and you need to be job

costing out your overhead and then adding profit to both the actual cost of the job the job cost overhead together then put a profit on top of that and bang you're back profitable again but i think two things have happened one is you guys were pretty disorganized on some of these smaller jobs. The bigger jobs you were doing a good job of running the job cost on, and your accounting on these smaller jobs sucks, and you're guessing. I think you're correct on that. Yeah. You would be a normal $10 million company.

That's what we were doing when we were $10 million. Our accounting sucked when we were $10 million. And I'm the money guy, and our accounting was horrible. horrible and but today man it's so freaking dialed in it's unbelievable and so you're really doing a good job a good thing here so your uh leadership team needs to get into entree leadership yesterday and our guys can coach you guys through this but this is a uh first you got to know where you are and get this get these numbers dialed in to each job and get and get the overhead dialed in and then start an allocation of overhead formula of some kind and then add profits to the top of that. Then that will tell you how to raise your prices. And this is going to go away.

But what happened was you were out earning your stupidity. Yeah, you were making you're making enough money that your sloppiness you're getting away with it there's also one other thing going on here garrett and i heard it when you said it we're well we have to say no then we have to walk away from a company doesn't want to pay it you don't get to exclude yourself from the marketplace inflation is a function of all of this and so your hourly wages have gone up the the cost of fuel, which makes that dozer more expensive. So you guys are worried about them going, well, we don't like that. Well, tough, because you've just got to stand your ground

and explain basic economics to these folks. The dozer company across town has the same fuel cost, and they have the same labor cost. That's right. And so if they're not going to go up on their price, you're going to be buying their machines at a nickel on the dollar when they go broke. So this is why the cost of bread has gone up, because the cost of fuel to deliver the bread has gone up.

The $10 guy that used to put the bread on the shelf is now a $20 guy. Those numbers are all built into the cost of bread. And so if you want a universal wage, guess who's going to pay for it? You are, because it's going to be absorbed into the cost of that loaf of bread. You do not get to pass on this stuff like you're a magic fairy wand. Oh, my gosh. Hey, guys, George Camel here, and I'm so excited to tell you about the newest product from Ramsey. It's called Gazelle, and it's a digital banking experience that will help you spend and save the Ramsey way

with banking services provided by Pathword NA. You'll get a single spending account with no monthly fees, and it's FDIC insured through Pathword NA. We're offering early access to our beta customers, so you can help us make it the best experience it can be. Just go to ramseysolutions.com slash gazelle to sign up for the wait list today. Talking about the real estate market and how hot it is right now. We are doing on July the 14th a live stream about the real estate market. Everybody's upset about it. Everybody's scared about it.

Everybody's excited about it. Everybody's talking about it. So we think we should do the same. So we're going to do that. It's called the Real Estate Reality Check. We launched it today. The live stream is free yeah you heard me free we're not charging for it so george camel rachel cruz and i will

unpack everything for you about prices going down is the housing market going to crash is this or there is this a reboot of the 2008 recession are you going to see something similar what about inflation what about recession what about my house price should i wait for house prices to go down to buy uh spoiler alert no and here's the thing we're not going to participate in the fear porn of the news networks we're just going to give you the actual facts and we'll do it in line with historical perspective, which is the only way you can analyze these trends properly. You cannot analyze them when you put your hand up so close in front of your face that you can't see.

You have to back out, pan back, zoom out until you get a full view of what's really going on, and then you go, oh, in light of that, I don't have to be so scared. Real estate reality check. Have your friends that think we're going to hell in a handbasket watch? This is free because we're not. RamseySolutions.com slash reality check.

RamseySolutions.com slash reality check. Also, something else going on around here, Dr. John Deloney's new, we've got new versions of the questions for humans these conversation starter card packs are amazing you know we've sold about 50 000 of these things it's crazy it's awesome i'm so excited i i didn't think it would be this big but it's huge you guys are buying these conversation cards like crazy. People don't want to talk to each other, and this is a way to get the conversation started. Now we've got four new types, a girls' night pack, a guys' night pack, a dating for people who are dating, parents and teens, and a workplace edition. Questions for human cards are now at RamseySolutions.com, brand new set.

Our question of the day comes from Blinds.com. Find out for yourself why Blinds.com is the number one online retailer of custom window coverings, free samples, free shipping, and new promos all the time. Use the promo code Ramsey. Today's question comes from Rita, New Jersey. I am a Java programmer. Did I say that right? Yes, you did. I feel like that was a little above my pay grade. No, you didn't. Yeah, there it is. And I've been with the same company for almost 10 years. I earned $96,000 with bonuses. I recently realized that my salary is low for my experience in

education. Other companies are offering an average of $130,000. I want to look for another job, but I'm not sure this is the right time. My husband and I are hoping to have a second child sooner than later. My husband is also starting a new job this month, and I'm afraid it may be too late for me to make this change since I'm in my late 30s. Oh, God, you're about to die any minute. Yeah, there's a pattern here. Late 30s, how do you make it?

A wheelchair, it'll hold pattern here. Late 30s. How do you make it? A wheelchair. It'll hold you back. That's right. We have a year's worth of money saved, which would help with the risk of taking a new job. Why is there a risk? And she finishes with, should I look for other opportunities at this stage of my life? So three times now we've heard, it may be too late, since I'm in my late 30s, at this stage of my life. So a lot of fear over something, Rita, that you don't need to be afraid of.

First of all, you're in your prime. So there's nothing about being too late. You are absolutely in your prime, your most marketable time, over the next decade and a half. So I don't know what you're afraid of other than rejection. And it's normal when we take on change, which is the unknown. And so what you have to do is just focus on what you know, that you can get as much as $130,000, according to your research, which is a significant bump. It's 34 grand and bump based on what you do, your experience

and your talent. So I would go for it. You never know when the baby's coming or not. And so I wouldn't wait. I would take the opportunity now to move up in income and give yourself a ladder financially. I just now the fear is you've said it's about being in your late 30s. And that's an excuse. You're afraid to put yourself out there. And so what we do is we manufacture some real excuses so that we can feel better about pausing or holding off. And it's a crutch. Rita, when you take the new job, before you take it, I want you to make very sure that the quality of people inside the company is excellent,

that these are good humans and you want to be with them every day because you're going to spend a lot of time with them. And so you don't want to get more money but go into a toxic cesspool of humanity. And that can happen. And programmers sometimes forget to understand the quality of culture that you're working in matters. The other thing you don't want to do is if you're working 40 hours a week now, you don't want to go to a place that expects you to work 80 hours a week and so you need to have real clarity on the culture of the organization the quality of the humans you're going to be around uh and what the work

hour expectation is uh and one more thing we want to be comfortable that this company you're going to work for is not some startup and they're running it out of their back pocket and they're about to go broke any minute but they pay a lot today but they're not going to live through next friday okay so uh if they're if they're financially stable it's a solid company and they've got really good people in a really good environment and you move up there is nothing to fear in the change and if you move from you know move up 30 40 000 dollars in income that's nothing to fear at all you wouldn't worry about that at all that's like saying i drive a 500 pickup and i have the opportunity to go buy a 35 000 paid cash you know brand new ford f-150 loaded to the max and you know which you probably can't get for

35 000 but anyway the uh uh but whatever you know you go get a not a much nicer car people don't dread change when it's better that's right and when it's an upgrade that's right and to your point you have to look into it you have to put yourself out there and discover you know what's out there is it a healthy culture and And they'll do it, you know. And, Ken, I'm seeing this with people in the marketplace now with so much change in the job, you know, the great resignation, people moving to other places and working. And I've seen it with friends, and I've actually seen it with people that left Ramsey a time or two. I've seen it with other places. And they didn't do a good analysis of what they

were going to that's right and they get in they get themselves in with a group that they don't like being around and it's bad people and and the only variable that they upgraded in was the money variable and then but they lose control of their life they're working too many hours they're working for doofuses um and then they regret making the decision and people fear making a bad decision but uh if you do your research take your time in the interview process work the process if you can make 30 or 40 thousand dollars more in a in a place the similar number of hours this is good or better people and they're financially stable yes you should do that yeah it's a no-brainer.

And you're absolutely right. We are seeing a lot of people, there's now a term for them called boomerang employees. They're looking to come back to companies. And the caution here is that we want you to make more money, and you should be able to make more money. However, as Dave has pointed out, if you chase just a bigger paycheck, that paycheck high wears off if you are in a toxic culture with moron leaders who don't value you. You will not last. You will not last.

And you have to look at the entire picture and make sure that you're not leaving just for a bigger paycheck, but for opportunity that's going to make your entire life better yeah the other thing is booming around boomeranging is this um the person who thought they wanted to work from home yes and very lonely they're they're heading out there that they're lonely and they found out that by the way working from home actually means you also work sometimes it's code for i don't want to work much. And so, you know, you're working from home. Now you're trying to do computer programming with a three-year-old screaming, which is really hard to do, by the way. One other trend, Dave. Working from home is not like nirvana, and people are discovering this.

It's got all kinds of downside. One other quick trend I want to point out on this point, Dave, is we're seeing that they're not getting promoted as much. Out of sight, out of mind. As companies are returning back to the workplace, you know, leaders are going to promote people that they're interacting with a little bit more. We're seeing this in the data. So this is a real risk as well. Yeah, you take yourself off the market.

Wow. Now, we're seeing people come back from other jobs that were bad. We're seeing them come back from work from home. They don't come back to Ramsey because we have a policy we don't rehire. We figure the reason you left is the reason you'll screw us and leave again. So, you know, once you're gone, we love you. Go to work somewhere else. This is The Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage.

Alan and Anya are with us. Hey, guys, how are you? Great. Doing great. Welcome. Where do you guys live? Long Beach, California. All the way to Nashville to do a debt-free scream. How much did you pay off? $690,000.

Woo-hoo-hoo! And how long did this take? Nine years, 11 months. Wow. Ooh, suspiciously like 10 years. Wow. And your range of income during the decade? We started right around $200,000.

And last year, we were up over $400 and um with a lot of overtime so now we're backing it back down again good for you what do you guys do for a living my goodness i'm a um ramsey certified financial coach and i operate heavy equipment in the port of long beach ah yeah both of you doing well congratulations thank. Thank you. And working a lot. Absolutely. Yeah, there was a whole bunch of people waiting on you. Kind of had a line back up there. I did my best. It wasn't your fault.

It wasn't your fault, but yeah, that was the deal, man. I was thinking the same thing about all those ships that were lined up. Is that still the case? No. Okay, good. You got caught up, huh? Yes. A lot of OT, though, huh? Absolutely.

I bet. I bet. So what kind of debt was the uh 690 000 is that the house um it was a little bit of everything we had a credit card we had a heloc we had a truck loan and we had um personal loan oh yeah we had a personal loan and then we had three mortgages three mortgages why not yeah yeah why not it's california absolutely all right so you're 100 debt-free debt-free house and everything everything we're looking at weird people i love it congratulations you guys and a decade of hustle and grind like you said it's a

marathon yeah for real that's amazing so tell us story. What starts you on a decade-long journey to be 100% free? Our church, Arbor Road Church in Long Beach, was offering FPU, and they had free child care. So we had a three and a seven-year-old at the time, so it sounded like a night off for me. So I said, let's do this. And I said, yes, dear. Yeah, good man. So free babysitter, that's the hook. That's the hook.

Who knew? Yeah, there we go. All right. And you go in there and you go, okay, my night off just turned into, uh-oh, I now have an assignment. Absolutely. Well, you know, it's all about the communication. That's, you know, that's you know that's

the key to it really it's about setting that time aside and um being intentional yeah big deal congratulations so do you remember back 10 years ago the lessons there were 13 lessons then um how far into the class before you went oh game on we got to do this um i'm pretty stubborn it i took the class twice okay so the second time yeah we're going through it how far okay about halfway through okay yeah all right all right kind of you remember the light switch going yes i do a little little yeah light bulb over your head, cha-ching, right? Yeah. I remember those moments in my life at different things, yeah.

It's pretty incredible. And so how long have you been a Ramsey coach, Anya? I started last year. I've led four sessions of FPU. And then I said, you know, I need to dig deeper into this and do the coaching. It's just what I need to do. Cool. Very cool.

It's obviously working, huh? Yes. Yeah. Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you so much for all the help and the leading of this. And so you said the key to getting out is intentionality and communication. What about you, Alan?

What do you say the key to getting out is for me it was about legacy um i came from some challenges in my life and um if i can do it anyone can do it um and so to break that chain and to create a legacy um that was my why changing the family tree yes for our listening audience, Alan is holding a classic that Dave talks about, has talked about for decades, the tortoise and the hare, the children's book. That's a good-looking addition there. I got to set you up. You brought that for a reason.

You've been holding on to it. Why does that mean so much to you to bring it today? Ten years is a long time. Yes, sir. I think, yeah. Slow and steady wins the race and um we're 40 years old when we started this and now we're positioned to retire inspired yeah you have zero debt house or anything you live in california hello i mean that's a big deal yeah that's a big

deal you make really good money and you have not a payment in the world. Nope. Was it worth it? Absolutely. Absolutely. It's a long run. It is. Long run. How's it feel to be free? It's amazing. Yeah. You know, knowing that he can work or not work, you know, he can retire early.

We can spend more time at the vacation home in Arizona, spending more time with our gang kids as well. Yeah, there we go. Game on. Yep. Good job, you guys. Very, very good job. Outside of the two of you, outside your family, who was the biggest cheerleaders?

We have our kids here with us. My mom was a really big supporter. We had a lot of friends who thought that it was a great idea for us. Yeah. Meanwhile, they're taking out new 30-year mortgages at our age. had a lot of friends who thought that it was a great idea for us. Yeah. You know, meanwhile, they're taking out new 30 year mortgages at our age. And so a friend of ours gave us a little gift of a unicorn when we paid off

our first mortgage in 2019 because there really wasn't anyone around us, you know, doing that. So, you know, we've tried to encourage people. I mean, we can do it. Anyone can do it. Absolutely.

Southern California, it's such a rat race. Everyone's caught up like a hamster in a wheel. And concepts like peace, contentment, and freedom, they're foreign when you're on that wheel. And when you're on the other side, it's unexplainable. You said something, Alan, earlier that I don't want the audience to miss. I'm just curious how you would explain to us. You said you had a tough past is basically what I heard.

You had a really interesting past. And you said, if I can do it, anybody can do it. What are you taking away from that? What do you mean? What do you want the audience to understand about that? When I, right after I met him, sorry, in the mid-90s, he was homeless. And. Behind drugs and alcohol. and just knowing that just one foot in front of the other,

support from those around you, anything's possible. Yeah. For a point in my 20s, I got into mountain climbing, and I found it's better not to look at the summit. Just look at what's in front of you, one step after another. Oh, wow. That's good good it took 10 years but we're here you're on top of the mountain absolutely well i gotta tell you man when you come

through that house sweet it is i love it congratulations man that's powerful yeah man i'm fired up yeah i'm with you you uh you've conquered some serious stuff in your life this debt was it was just another one absolutely one more down i like it it's a warrior yeah we right after we finished the fpu class actually we had a major disaster at our vacation home in arizona and um a flood came through town that was about a hundred year flood and the water came up to the windows and you know so we got knocked down a few times along the way it's not an easy road but you just keep getting up you know you just keep doing it day after day yeah that's powerful very good stuff you guys all right bring the guys in

what are their names and ages so we have eight aiden who is 18 and we have aaron who is 14 all right perfect stuff yeah that's the three-year-old there now he's 13 i love it good stuff all right we got a copy of baby steps millionaires for you uh you probably already that with that real estate paid for in california how ordinary people build extraordinary wealth how you can too and also a copy of total money makeover you can give that away in your coaching and stir up a ruckus with somebody we're so proud of you guys you're amazing people what heroes thank you absolutely phenomenal thank you for sharing your story with us very nice 690 000 paid off in nine years and 11 months, making $200,000 to $400,000. Alan and Anya, Aiden and Aaron from Long Beach, 100% debt-free.

Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Yeah! Yeah! I love it This is the Ramsey personality, host of The Ken Coleman Show, author of the book From Paycheck to Purpose,

is my co-host this hour as we talk to you about building wealth, doing work you love, and creating actual amazing relationships. Andrew is with us. Andrew is in Durham, North Carolina. Hi, Andrew. How are you? Hey, hello. It's great to speak with you two gentlemen. Thank you very much. Our honor, sir.

Yes. I'm a grandfather, mid-80s. My wife and I are well off financially. Actually, we've been debt-free for 30 years, and we visited your studio two years ago. Wonderful, wonderful experience. Here's my question. We have five young adult grandchildren. One is 26, graduated college two years ago, summa cum laude, great Christian girl. She took a Christian internship that provided her a part-time job with some lawyers, and she finished the internship and went on to take the full-time position as a paralegal. So she's making, like in the mid-30s, she really dislikes the job. She loves writing, seems to have talent in that field.

She wants to be in journalism, broadcasting. She has an opportunity to attend a one-year master's program at a well-regarded northern university. The cost is about $75,000. She'll get a $25,000 scholarship. She needs an additional $50,000 plus living costs. My concerns are this, she's never worked in the field that she's interested in, and I just wonder how important that would be in her career. We're thinking of helping, but maybe having some strings attached, maybe a loan from our family trust, and I'm just wondering how you would guide her and my wife and myself to help her at the maximum ability. Wow.

Fantastic question. So I think she needs to spend some time with people that are in broadcasting or journalism in the specific area that she's interested in. There might be two or three different lanes. And my advice would be to have her spend some time with them to learn the ins and outs. And what does a day look like? What does the financial path look like? What does growth look like? Not just in position, but also in income. And then I would also challenge her to reconsider the prestigious university in the Northeast, because nobody cares where a broadcaster went to school. They just don't. In fact, we don't even care where our doctors went to school,

by evidence of the fact that few of us ever ask where our doctors went to med school. And so the scholarship of $25,000 at a very prestigious school could probably be a full scholarship potentially or certainly less money for you to give to her to further her education to get that experience. I will say in broadcasting, a degree is not required. At the age of 33, I made a pivot to move into broadcasting, and I had to earn my way and figure out how to do it on the side and eventually got Dave Ramsey's attention. But there was no school or degree involved.

It was just good old-fashioned learning how to do broadcasting, doing small things while having a day job. So I would say that in broadcasting, if she were to get a full ride or you were to pay a lot less money for a less prestigious school but that one-year program got her some real-life broadcasting experience in the form of internships and some premium placement that could certainly help but it's not necessary so um yeah yeah I really appreciate your heart, Andrew. And the way you asked the question, the way you poised it is very loving, but it's also very wise and very practical as would be expected from a man like you. Um, the, uh, the, the, the thing is this, okay. I

have been in broadcasting for 30 years. I work with just about every major network that you see or hear on television or radio anywhere. I do interviews almost every week with someone outside of here, whether they be in New York or California or Atlanta or Durham, North Carolina even. And I got to tell you, I don't think that, as a matter of fact, I'm 100% positive that a master's degree is not necessary to be a writer and to be a journalist. It's simply not. And it's certainly not worth $75,000 for a one-year program. There's no return on investment on that. The goal that your granddaughter has is a valid goal,

and she has discovered or has been told a mistaken method to get to her goal. The ladder that she wants to use to get to her goal is the wrong ladder. It's not a necessary ladder ladder and it's super expensive and so um i don't know that as a grandpa you'll be able to talk her down off this thing she's probably all hyped up about going to this particular school the prestige of it's got her all jazzed and she's jonesed up with it uh and she's got this idea that being a master's, you know, having a master's is going to open all these doors, and the truth is it just doesn't. It doesn't.

You can either write, and you get in there, and you start writing, and you write, and you learn to write copy, and you learn to communicate verbally, and you learn to work a stage or a camera or a microphone, depending on which side of the thing you're going to be on and what part of broadcasting and journalism you're going to be involved in. But, you know, here's the other thing. They don't make any money. It's not a big lucrative career. And so, I mean, if you're a writer for a major network in New York City, you make 50 or 60 grand, and you're 25, 26 years old, and they work you 80 hours a week. And so you can't justify a $75,000 additional expense to go do that.

She's already got the skills to do it. And we work with those young people every day, and most of them are young people in these roles. And they're writing the teleprompter for the script we're getting ready to do in the interview and most people don't follow it after they write it but it's done you know and so i don't know how you're going to talk her out of it but boy if you could you should because she's barking up the wrong tree she's getting ready to spend a whole bunch of money she doesn't need to spend to go do something she doesn't need to do to get to be who she wants to be yeah that and and i actually do know something about that you know we're actually right square in the middle of it you know right well neither you or i have formal broadcasting training we just started doing it and you stink at first

you know i mean the number of people that we talk to that are behind the scenes that are writers oh they're they're print reporters in journalism or they're script writers for shows, and they're trying to build what we call produce a segment. That's correct. Meaning that we're working with Fox and Friends, and we're getting ready to go on Fox and Friends, and the producer that's producing the segment normally is 26 years old. Oh, yeah.

No master's. Well, I don't know if she or he's got a master's, but I have no indication that they do, and I have no care if they do. Neither does Steve Doocy when he stands in front of the camera. All he wants to know is, did we produce a segment where it makes it logical, it's cogent, the narrative is there, the story arc is there? Are we delivering in a concise manner and basic journalism rules? And, I mean, you can get that in a community college taking three writing classes. Outside of that, Dave, the very first broadcasting and only broadcasting class I ever took was $699 with a local TV and radio producer. He was legit in Atlanta.

And I was with a bunch of 20-somethings. And I learned things in that six-week course, one night a week, six weeks. I learned things in that course that i still use today with you and and it's the basic fundamental so who can teach me what i actually need to learn is this question we ask and andrew what what we're all talking about here is you and ken and i is where the education system and the culture are uh have misled about the last three generations and told them that where you go to school matters and that you always have to have more school no matter what

and that ridiculous levels of education are necessary to pull off some of these basic jobs, and they're not. She has a four-year degree. She's been a paralegal. She's already doing writing all day long. It's just boring, bad writing in the law office, you know? And so she's fine. I would tell her to go to work, go to work in the journalism field. She didn't like her job, change jobs and take some night classes on writing. And that's what I would do. And I

would not loan her money. And I would not give her money to do something that is a path that I don't believe is the correct path. This is The Ramsey Show. Dave here. You can find all of our shows with the Ramsey Network app on your smartphone. It's the only place to listen to the entire back catalog of episodes. Download the Ramsey Network app in your favorite app store today.