The Ramsey Show - App - Is the American Dream Still Possible? (Hour 3)

Episode Date: June 25, 2024

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual, amazing relationships. The phone number here is 888-825-5225. George Camel, Ramsey personality, author of the number one bestseller, Breaking Free from Broke, and co-host of the Smart Money Happy Hour, a big hit on Ramsey Networks.

He's my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Thank you for joining us. Dylan is with us in New York City. Hi, Dylan. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave. Hey, George. Thanks for having me. Sure, man. What's up? So my question is, is the American dream still possible in your opinion? Because I've seen a lot of things and headlines recently that have made me really scared as someone who's 18 years old,

seeing things about how like $100,000 a year just doesn't cut it anymore to get by. And I'm just kind of scared for my future, so I wanted your input. Okay. I think if you go back and had some fun and went back and read headlines at any time in the last 150 years, you could find headlines that would tell you the same thing. 1950, 1940, 1970, 1990. I think you can always find headlines that say that the world is coming to an end

and that the dreams are dead. My friend Zig Ziglar used to say, he said, every morning I read the Bible and I read the newspaper so I can tell what both sides are doing. So whatever you look for, you will find. And so that this is part of it is there's a mindset issue I can tell already here, but let's lay out your financial situation as to why at 18, you're already feeling this cynical. Right. So, um, so I had gone to a out-of-state college for my freshman year. I just finished that up. Um, and I accumulated $16,000 in student loans. Um, they're all federal, but, um, I'm obviously, I wasn't happy about that.

And I started listening to Dave's and, uh, kind of realized that was a poor decision. So I came back home and I'm going to be going to a community college and then transferring to an in-state university to cut down that cost and not go into more student debt. Good for you. What are you studying? What are you studying? Finance.

Good for you. Okay. And so what makes you believe that if you get a degree in finance that you can't prosper in America today other than headlines? Well, I don't know if one of my issues, too, is where I live. I live on Long Island, and, like, a good house around me would be about, like, $600,000. And, you know, I'd want to follow your rule of paying 20% so I don't have um pay for the private mortgage insurance and stuff so yeah and again at no time in history has an 18 year old bought a good house in long island

that's fair you know i mean unless they hit the lottery or something i mean so it takes a little while to get out there get your career moving get your income moving and you know maybe when you're 30 you buy something on long island because long island's wonderful but it's one of the most expensive real estate markets in the world i mean manhattan long island um silicon valley orange county i mean there's you know you can go into some of the major cities, Tokyo, London, and normal people making normal incomes can't afford to buy a home in those markets. Never have been able to, by the way.

That's not new. When I was your age, an 18-year-old making a normal income couldn't even think about living in Manhattan or Long Island. It's called an ultra-high cost of living area, which means you need an ultra-high income. But that does not translate to the American dream is dead. The dream of an 18-year-old owning a $600,000 home on Long Island is dead, but that dream was never alive.

All right, that's a fair point. Okay. So what is your definition here? What are you actually looking to achieve? I think my goal really is to just, you know, kind of everything you guys say, be able to, I mean, now I just have a little bit of debt, but get out of that debt, stay out of any future debt, buy a home, you know, just finish my good career. So everything you just laid out for us is very much possible. Can you get out of $16,000 of debt? Yes.

Can you stay out? Yes. Can you build an emergency fund, making a normal salary and working in something related to finance? Yes. Now the house is going to take longer to save up for, depending on where you're going, but it always has taken a long time to save up for.

Right. Okay. So maybe I'm being a little too little too ambitious i don't know i don't know why an 18 year old's glued to the headlines anyways i'm not saying you're a i'm not saying you're too ambitious um i'm just saying don't base a an overarching statement of the american dream is dead or you can't meaning you can't prosper you can't win based on you can't afford to do something today. Those are two different things. That's all we're saying. And so, yeah, you can get there, but the way you win this stuff is one step at a time, one step at a time, one step at a time. It's not very few people leap into success.

Most people do it by degrees and by, you know, of course correction and a little bit of time and this and move and, and keep scratching, keep clawing. And, um, you know, you work your butt off for 20 years and you look up and you're an overnight success, you know, that kind of thing. And that's, um, that, that's what you're facing is there's an incremental process in this journey that, um, and, uh, you know, we're, that that's what you're facing is there's an incremental process in this journey that um and you know we're i was talking to somebody about this this morning it was deloney actually

we're talking about uh uh and with one of our producers as well that um since the advent it was at 2003 the smartphone came out if i remember right apple did the smartphone 2003 so it's original one 20 years that we've all been living yeah with uh increasingly with a magic wand in our hand we can access the entire breadth of the world's knowledge give or take idiots on the internet uh you can access and purchase push a thing, show up on your front porch. You can book a tea time. You can book a restaurant. You can book a Uber. You can all with this magic wand in your hand. You can send a text to a friend anywhere in the world and they'll get it instantly.

You can send an email to a friend anywhere in the world and they'll get it semi instantly. Never in the history of mankind have we been able to do things so efficiently and so quickly and what it's done to all of us including me at 63 not just dylan at 18 is it that has spoiled us and we have no patience i have absolutely no patience my my reasonable you know there was a day i could actually stand in line for something i i refuse to stand in line for anything and i think it's because of this stupid smartphone i think it's atrophied our delayed gratification exactly i am unwilling to wait for anything and dylan i think you got a little bit of that infection too and so does george and so does

everybody listening to this we're less willing to wait for anything than probably in the history of mankind because we don't have to we've got a magic wand in our freaking hand it's magic you just touch it and stuff happens man and dylan i'm going to send you a copy of my book breaking free from broke i wrote it for that exact reason to show people it's still possible and most people they overestimate what they can do in a year they underestimate what they can do in a decade. There you go. That was me. That's the quote. From 23 to 33, I was broke to millionaire. I thought it wasn't possible, and I followed a proven plan. That's the quote. Dylan, you're going to be fine. You're going to be very prosperous. You're the right kind of guy. You're thinking and you're asking the right

questions. Turn off the news. It's never caused someone to be successful yet. This is The Ramsey Show. George Campbell Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Thanks for joining us. Open phones at 888-825-5225. George, I had an additional thought because it comes up, um, in my argument with Rachel over housing right now. Um, that, that it's really, that people are really struggling.

Gen Z struggling to get a home because it's a real tough time to buy a house. And Gen Z has to buy their first home has a really difficult market to do it in it's one of the toughest markets maybe in 40 or 50 years okay legitimately it's tough but they um but then it goes to where dylan was and and that translates with drama into people's minds and say oh well that's it this whole thing called america's over because i can't buy a house right now when i want to so by definition that means this thing's over because you know wages have not gone up as fast as house prices and so we're just screwed and that that just is the end of times jesus is coming back that's it we're going to be left behind do it i mean that's called kirk cameron that's it and so uh

so they what happens is is that i can't do it right now turns it inject a little drama into that fact and that translates to this whole thing is over it'll never happen yeah the american dream is dead home ownership is dead it's unrealistic and you boomers who bought your house for a box basket of strawberries don't understand so the actual and that's all over you know stupid tic-tac and everywhere right that the whining and the victimization of the gen z right if we don't laugh we cry so you gotta make me the truth is it is very tough and the truth is for dylan right now he's looking at some very tough things but the truth is is that you can never in your decision-making

paradigm or your philosophy or theology of life take a snapshot a still framed snapshot of a moment in time and declare that to be true about life that's not true about life that's true about a moment in time because life is not a snapshot life is a film strip so the next frame in the film strip something has moved and changed and then the next frame something has moved and changed. And then the next frame, something has moved and changed again. Thus, we get a movie, right? Frame by frame by frame by frame by frame. So if you took a snapshot, when I came out of college, so slightly older than Dylan, with a finance degree, as a baby boomer, I'm the last of the baby boomers.

I was born in 1960, and that's the last date of baby boomers i was born in 1960 and that's the last date of baby boomers everyone after that is another generation that's the last date of boomers okay so i'm the youngest of the boomers i came out of college in 1982 interest rates for houses were 17%. So, you know, hey, 6%, hold my beer. Okay? They were 17%. And so if I took that as a snapshot at 22 years old and said,

I can't afford a house because guess what nobody could if I took that as a snapshot at that moment in time and extrapolated that because of drama as a new way of looking at America how wrong would I have been it's inaccurate it's inaccurate if you believe that then your actions will follow and you'll never right because it's over why would you're screwed because it's but but you know what you can be sure of at 17 next year it's going to be higher or lower but it's unlikely to be 17 by the way by 1984 i was selling homes i was 24 years old with a real estate license i was selling homes. I was 24 years old with a real estate license. I was selling homes in a 14% fixed rate market and people were buying them. Wow. Wrap your brain around that. I can't even get my brain around that today. And I did it. I was there, but I can't get my brain around it.

But if you took a snapshot of that, that's the year, by the way, that adjustable rate mortgages were invented. Wow. When we were at 14 fixed, we came up with the very first time I was 24 years old. I heard of an adjustable rate, an arm mortgage, and we could sell them for 12%, 2% less than fixed rate. And people ran toward. And they were running towards anything to get the stinking sky high rates down. And then before we knew it it we were back down at 10 and then i said we'll never go below 10 and of course we sure did we went to nine and then we'll

never go below nine we'll never see and then we're at six and we stayed at six forever and then 2008 happened and they jammed the rate down to try to recover the economy down into the threes and it stayed down in the threes so all of that to say there's a little history lesson, boys and girls, of interest rates, but interest rates affect house affordability, home affordability, because a lot of people borrow to buy a home. Not everybody does, but a lot of people do. And so you cannot take a snapshot in time and say this is your whole life. This is your life today.

What about 1988 when I filed bankruptcy and I had a brand new baby, a toddler, and a marriage hanging on by a thread? What if I take a snapshot of that and say this is my entire life? And you extrapolate that as if it is the future. As if it's your identity forever. You graph your current crisis into the future and you say this is all there is. That's not glass half full that's inaccurate critical thinking skills they're improper critical thinking skills because it's not how things work it's not a snapshot boys and girls it's a film strip and so yes it's very tough right now for gen z to buy a house i completely understand that is this a permanent problem? Absolutely not.

100% sure it's not. How is it going to be solved? Well, heck, I don't know. I didn't know how they were going to solve 17%. I didn't know. I had no idea George would be driving an electric car. What do I know? Didn't know those existed when I was 18. I thought that was a you know a battery with wheels

the catch is fire but you still drive it and so you know i mean it's there's you know see what i'm saying it's just that this is and i think that's worth talking about y'all i think it's Hope deferred makes the heart sick. That's Proverbs. Hope deferred, hopelessness, hope deferred makes the heart sick. And when the heart is sick, you were saying exactly right about it affects your decisions, it affects your behaviors. So you don't engage in things that are going to cause you to win because your heart is sick and hopeless. Well, it's cynicism at the end of the day. That's what this generation is facing, and that just means it's negativity wrapped in fear. So I'm going to be negative, and I'm scared it's never going to be any different, and therefore I'm going

to tweet about it and make fun of it because it's the only way I know how to cope with it. And I think we also meet people who are 18 who are rock stars who go, yeah, it's hard, but you know what? I'm going to get the second job for now and I'm going to get out of debt. I'm going to stay out of debt. It just points back to the Ramsey plan. If you really believe that there's no hope, then stay out of debt and get out of debt is your best bet to get to where you want to be. It works in down times and it works in up times. It's the only plan that works in both. And so that's the thing. And it's distressing because I want to, and I'm going to be as best I can, empathetic, not sympathetic, but empathetic to people's, you know, if you're 26 and you're distressed because you can't buy a house right now, I get it.

That's what empathy is. That means I get it. I see you. Okay. You're seen. I am not going to let you engage in my presence with improper critical thinking skills, inaccurate critical thinking skills. And that is, is to extrapolate with with drama your current stuckness into the future.

You are not stuck forever. You're stuck today. Some of you can't do it. But, well, you know, I was on a stinking TV show doing an interview, and the guy's like, well, the median household income in America is $80,000, and the median house price is $4 and twenty six thousand or whatever it is. Four hundred something thousand. And that means that a median house price, a median income can't buy a median house.

And I'm like, yeah, but real people don't live in medians. Most of them anyway. It's just a stat. Yeah. Because, I mean, well, median includes median is the middle. It's not an average. It's the middle number. And so that includes Silicon Valley in that number.

It includes poverty. And most people aren't dealing with Silicon Valley. It includes Orange County, and most people aren't dealing with Orange County. And certainly with a median household income, you're not dealing with Silicon Valley, just like we were telling Dylan. So it's just an inaccurate way to analyze the situation because it's not proper. And then it steals people's hope. And when you start stealing people's hope, I will make fun of you because you piss me off. This is The Ramsey Show.

Thanks for joining us, America. George Campbell, Ramsey personality, is my co-host on the Debt Free Stage. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions, Tom and Cheryl are with us. Hey, guys, how are you? We're so good, thank you. Welcome. Where do you guys live? Colorado Springs, Colorado. Oh, wonderful town.

Welcome to Nashville. Good to have you. And here to do a Debt Free Sc scream, how much debt have you paid off? We have paid off $237,317.12. Wow. How long did this take? That took 156 months, 13 years. Okay, 13 years. And your range of income during that time? When we started, it was $90,000.

And when we ended, it was $110,000. Excellent. What do you all do for a living? I'm an assistant administrator. And I'm the director of short-term missions for a nonprofit organization. Very cool. Good for you. Good for you.

13 years, $237,000. So I'm going to guess and say that was your house. No. No. No. What in the going to guess and say that was your house. No. No. No. What in the world? What kind of debt was this? Stupid debt.

We had a very high student loan. We had several credit cards, car loans, and a second mortgage. Wow. Yeah. Wow. Well, what got you started 13 years ago what was the the i've had it moment and why in the world did this take 13 years that's the other thing i want to know well we christmas had snuck up snuck up on us and came out of nowhere had no clue was going to happen and right around the time

that that happened we had a credit card payment that got messed up. And so we missed a payment. And that put us over our limit. And they were freaking out and wanted all this money. And we had no idea what to do. We were completely broke. And we were just a breath away from having to file bankruptcy. And our church started offering a Dave Ramsey class. So we thought, you know what?

Let's do that. What else do we have to lose so financial peace university yep correct all right 13 years ago wow so like 2002 no that's 20 years ago 2010 20 2011 2011 yeah. All right, I can't do math. That's bad. And all right, wow. So you went into the class. You're broke. What happened? It took us a while to get traction. That $1,000 took us quite a while. We did our budget, and we went, okay, we have an income problem.

We know we have a spending problem. So what are we going to do? So we plugged all of the holes where everything was leaking out. And then we said, we need more income because I work nonprofit. You don't go into nonprofit ministry unless you're called. And so we both got side gigs. I started cleaning houses. He did a computer business on the side. We even opened Etsy stores. And so we sold everything. It was just, we knew we had to do both. We had to increase the income. We had to completely stop the spending.

And that's what we did. And it was just month by month, where is every penny coming from? It's going to go completely to debt. And so we feel like, oh, my goodness, this took us forever. But we just kept after it every day, every day. Was there a time that you felt like you hit the wall, like you ran out of gas? No. Thankfully, because we did it together. We said we were in this together, do or die, we are going to get rid of this debt. And there was never a time where we hit the wall together. Thankfully, there were times that I hit the wall and Tom was steady.

There were times where Tom hit the wall and I was steady. There were times where we're like, we can't do this. It's never going to happen. And Tom would say, look at how far we've come. Look at everything that we've paid off. We can do this. And then I would think of this moment and I would say, we have to keep doing this because I am going to go and I'm going to scream.

That's a strategy for a 13-year payoff. So what was the second mortgage for? Well, because we thought this will eliminate our debt. And so let's get the second mortgage to pay off the credit cards. I know, right? Life hack. And then we ratcheted up the credit cards again. The second mortgage was gone. Like, I don't even know where the second mortgage went.

So you didn't change any habits. You just thought, well, let's use some debt to pay off other debt. And hopefully that solves it. And it didn't. It was you guys that had to solve it with that future income. Way to go. So at one point, we couldn't even tell our kids no and so we used to tell them dave ramsey said no that's a strategy use dave as a customer somewhere eventually there's a child in therapy that's right

eventually man used to run into our house and say no exactly eventually we got the power to say it ourself but early on we didn't have that ability so you were totally our scapegoat and it worked perfect that's okay i've been scapegoat for better worse things yeah well done you guys i'm so proud of you thank you how does it feel after all this time it feels so free like nobody owns me anymore. Our money is our money. Like that first cleaning job I did after we were debt free, it hit different. I went, that is our money for our big emergency fund.

It just feels free. I am never, ever going back. Ever. You're building for the future instead of paying for the past. Amen. Amen. That's the best place to be. And we set our girls on this beautiful trajectory.

They did Dave Ramsey with us. They are all debt-free. College paid for by paying cash. It can be done. A wedding paid for in cash by saving and hustling. And we did our garage as a venue for a rehearsal supper because free venue, right? And so I'm so proud of them. And so for us, just changing our family tree is everything to me.

You did. You did. You sacrificed and scratched and clawed and all of this. So when you first went at it, it was just because of the desperation of being broke. Yep. What kept you going though later once you knew you had control what kept you moving we started coordinating classes and so we were we our church is a church of house churches so we were doing them in our home and so they're smaller classes but that helped us just stay focused and keeping our eyes going the right direction and

reminding you of what you're there for well and when you're teaching a class you can't be a hypocrite so you got to do it all right i mean it's just there it's it's different than being a student yeah you can get away with a lot of stuff when you're a student you think but yeah way to go guys very very good very good so proud of. So what are you going to do now? What's the fun thing you're going to do to celebrate this? Yes. After this. After this. We do have tickets for the Grand Ole Opry tonight because it's our 30th wedding anniversary

today. And so we thought, thank you. So we thought, what better way to celebrate 30 years of marriage than to come here, do our scream, and then we'll go to the Grand Ole Opry for a concert. Full Nashville experience. I love it. Well, you guys enjoy it. It's a great show.

And the folks, we do a lot of stuff with the Opry here. And absolutely incredible team down there. You all have a great night. Thank you. Yeah, it'll be great. That's very cool. Very fun. The Tuesday night Opry.

Oh, yeah. Hey, guys. So proud of you. Absolutely, absolutely amazing. We've got a gift for them, too. Two every dollar you. Absolutely, absolutely amazing. We've got a gift for them too. Two every dollar subscriptions. Good for a year. So you can use those.

You could pay it forward, give it to someone else, maybe gift it to someone in an upcoming class or a coworker you run into to give them a little bit of hope. Very cool. Thank you. So somebody that's listening and they're saying, this is going to be hard, to them it is hard it's very hard it was it we had to change everything was it worth it oh completely worth it so worth it do it don't delay

one more day get up off your couch get it done get it you will be so blessed that you did it and teach your kids while you're doing it yes amen amen well congratulations you two heroes they took control of your life well done very well done tom and cheryl colorado springs colorado 237 $137,000 worth of debt done in 156 months, making 90 to 110. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Yeah!

That was 13 years coming. Wow! We've been bottled up for 13 years trying to let the genie out of the lamp. That's it, man. Get it done. Wow. Just get it done. This is The Ramsey Show.

Our scripture of the day, Proverbs 9.9, Instruct the wise and they will be wiser still teach the righteous and they will add to their learning jim rohn said formal education will make you a living self-education will make you a fortune and by the way there's nothing wrong with doing both that was that was dave ramsey there we go hey ramsey trusted, shop the market for insurance quotes. If you're going to look at your homeowners, your car insurance, you ought to shop it among a bunch of different companies. And an insurance broker, not just an agent, does that.

They work for you. They shop among all the different companies out there and get you the best deal. And they're not trapped uh by one particular brand in their insurance world if if you can only sell one brand we call you a captive agent who wants to be a captive you know so that means that you can always beat state farms rates is what we're saying that's exactly what that means so ramsey trusted pros will help you do that we interview them we vet them we coach them to make sure they're market experts and that you get the right coverages and you get them at the right price. So find out who the Ramsey Trusted Pro is in your area, ramsaysolutions.com slash coverage. Today's question comes from Tara in Nebraska. Tara says, we have a $1.2 million

net worth, but we don't have three to six months of savings in cash. The majority of our money is Tara says, fund would be for us could we consider our sinking funds and or the stock as part of our baby step three or does it need to be cash it should it should be it should be liquid yeah it should be liquid should be in a high yield savings account not utility stock i would never tell somebody called up and said i have fifteen thousand dollars to put my emergency fund i want to put it into a utility stock i would always say no now why why why? Why? Because let me tell you, the weirdest thing happens in life. At the exact time you have an emergency is the exact time the utility company had one. And their stock price dives. And now you don't want to cash it out because it's down.

You want to wait on it to come back up. But you got to fix your transmission. So you use a credit card even though you're a millionaire because you do all this mental gymnastics crap instead of just getting money and paying for something and that's what people do that's why you don't do it but and you know you don't put it in a cd a certificate of depression, because there's a penalty for early withdrawal in those things. Right? So we use a high-yield savings account.

So what would I do if I were in your shoes? I would sell these stocks and turn that into a liquid savings account. And as far as sinking funds, don't conflate the two. Because what happens is you have an emergency and you go, well, I'll steal from my vacation. Or you have a vacation and you go, well, the vacation's an emergency. So separate them. Keep them all in separate savings accounts. And you have a $1.2 million net worth.

I don't know what's going on here that you guys don't have this in cash, but get it done today. You should have a little bit of cash. Come on, man. I mean, really. So either develop a game plan out of your income to have an emergency fund in place for the next few months or cash out this utility stock. But no, you can't call your utility stock an emergency fund. It's just not smart. It's not wise.

Never invest your emergency fund. And here's the thing to remember about emergencies, emergency funds. And it really doesn't apply as much to her as it does just in general your emergency fund sucks as an investment a high yield savings account is not exactly high yield what are they paying right now now right now it's about five percent yeah so that's not high yield. High yield's 15, 25%. What you can get in the market. That's high yield. So 5% is a joke in a 9.8% by an inflation market. Your normal bank savings account is 0.something percent. So comparatively.

It beats it, but it's still not high. That's like a marketing term. High yield. How about just we're going to pay you a little more than nothing and call it something cool. But so they suck as an investment. a marketing term high yield how about just we're going to pay you a little more than nothing and call it something cool but so they suck as an investment so your emergency fund is not an investment when i'm speaking to a large crowd i always make them say back to me five thousand people in in the arena not an investment and then i make them say your emergency fund is insurance

everybody say insurance insurance right and so why do we do that because insurance costs you money to protect the things that make you money the fact that you're only making you five percent only making five percent on your money you don't look at this as an investment you look at it as insurance you could be making a lot more like in a utility stock or in mutual funds. But that's not the purpose of this fund. The purpose of this fund and the purpose of your Christmas fund is not a high yield. The purpose of Christmas funds is to pay for Christmas.

The purpose of your car funds is to pay for your car. That's what you're saving for. So that's the thing you've got to get. You need offense and defense. Investing is offense. Your insurance, your emergency fund, that is defense defense and they cost you money defense costs your money to protect the things that make you money so that that's how you keep that straight dwight is with us in louisville kentucky hi dwight what's up uh thanks for having me on um so i'm

looking for some career advice uh i'm a retired uh medically retired veteran, and I'm currently serving in law enforcement. I've been doing that for about 10 years now, and my passion is teaching law enforcement. So I've been looking at potentially going that route and teaching for the state. So it's the same retirement program for the state, but doing that, I would take about a $20,000 pay cut. What do you make now? About $66,000. Okay. So just running the numbers, I mean, so my current with my wife and I and my military

retirement, we're about $150,000 take-home. Yeah, you're not going to go bankrupt doing this, and it's not a horrible thing to make less money. I just don't like the premise that in order to do something I'm passionate about, I have to make less money, and everybody seems to think that's true. It's not true. I'm very passionate about this, and I make a lot of money. Why? And so i want you

to make more money when you're passionate not less so let's rethink how we might touch this teaching passion in a way that doesn't make you a state employee making less than you make now so how can we do that is this individual gun classes, private security classes? I mean, I know several guys that do tactical training on a private level. I've been involved in a lot of it. You know, we do a tactical handgun teaching class here with our security team at Ramsey just as a team building thing because we all like shooting. A lot of us do anyway. And that pays a lot building thing because we're all we all like shooting a lot of

us do anyway and so we're you know and and that pays a lot more than what you're talking about somebody coming in and leading that kind of thing so I don't know maybe maybe you take the state job and you supplement it with a side hustle teaching security right so I do have a side hustle where I do privately I have a business where I teach private classes and stuff. And what I've noticed is just the reliability of dealing with just people in general and getting people into those classes and not having my own range to do that. So that's my biggest struggle is not having a primary range to go to and having that marketing.

Yeah, but that's just a problem to solve. That's not a philosophy of life. Right. So, yes, I would go take the state job, but I would also take it under the auspices that when the smoke clears, no pun intended, on this whole thing, but when the smoke clears on this whole thing, then you um you know

you're making more money because you've got the side hustle private thing going to go with the state and all of it is about teaching and fun our director of security is a world-class teacher and he would tell you that the most fun thing he gets to do at his job is when we do those classes at our range and um we had one last weekend as a matter of fact we had 30 people out there learning how to shoot and he would tell you that's the most fun he has and he's world class at it he's good at it so i mean that that that kind of thing is available and you know i know he went and learned from other people how to do it so he paid somebody else to learn and so um you know there's all kinds of ways you can extrapolate this but in general i'm not ever going to tell i'm not going to fall for this

thing that oh in order to do what i love i have to make less i'd keep doing some homework and see if there's other opportunities that are similar that could pay what you're making now or more exactly before you make that jump well and or add to the thing and get the side hustle problem solved so you're making double what you're making now. That's a sweet deal. In total, between the two things. That puts us out of the Ramsey Show and the books. We'll be back with you before you know it.

In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Bye.