The Ramsey Show - App - Is the Economy As Bad as Everyone Thinks? (Hour 1)

Episode Date: May 24, 2024

From the Ramsey Network, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm John Deloney, joined by George Camel, and we are taking your calls on money, in life, in work, in relationships, mental health, whatever you got going on in your life, we're here to help. 888-825-5225. The show is live. 888-825-5225.

Give us a buzz. Let's go out to Washington, D.C. and talk to Lucy in the sky with diamonds. Hey, Lucy, what's up? Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call of course what's going on me okay i can hear you great perfect hey so me and my husband we've been going through the baby steps now for about gosh six months we're on baby step number three we're doing a really cool job we're so excited um we're about halfway through our emergency savings and building it up.

And just today we've learned one of our vehicles, which is a 2011 Lexus. We've had it for six or seven years. It's been great. We bought it used. It's got a very expensive repair all of a sudden. And we are like, gosh, should we pay the $4,300 bill to fix it, or is it worth it at this point to try to sell it and then go buy another cheap car? We're just not sure where's the break point. When should you keep repairing a used car versus switch to another used car?

Well, as a general rule, if the repair costs are more than the value of the car, you should probably replace the car. Now, that doesn't always ring true, because if the repair is $1,000 and the car is worth $1,000, you might want to just do the $1,000 repairs, because it's going to be hard to find a car that you can get for $2,000. So what is this car worth right now? Well, like I said, it's a 2011xus um 250 hybrid so um it's a hybrid and i think the last time we checked it's worth about eight or nine thousand dollars and that's if the repair

was done uh well yeah if we try to sell it as is right before this happened yeah we could sell right you know for eight to nine thousand now that all these lights are on what's wrong with it well here's the interesting part about one week ago we replaced the brakes and the brake pads and rotors we spent a thousand dollars just one week ago at the dealer to fix that and less than a week later all these lights are coming on and so my husband said that um the dealer said hey it's the brake uh brake rotor uh circuitry or something it's the rolling rotor yeah just make it it's the blinker fluid it's what that'll get you have you have you gotten a second opinion on this not yet um go get a second opinion from an unbiased um non-dealer shop. And don't tell them anything about this first one. Just roll in and say, hey, we're getting some lights.

What's this going to cost to repair? Okay. And if you get one or two more opinions and it's still all around $4,000, I would probably replace this. You guys have the money to do it, right? Well, yeah. I don't have a full three. We're trying to get it to three to six months.

Right now we're at about one and a half but do you do you have the money do you have 40 do you have four grand yes i do okay i would probably just make the repair versus going out and buying a new car um really that's what i would do no question about it yeah and the car has 150 000 miles it's a lexus it is not even halfway home, honey. It's just getting going. Here's the deal. You don't like it.

It's a great car. You don't like it? No. Oh, you do like it? We love the car. My husband is the one. He's the one that thinks, well, we should sell the car. We should have done this a year or two ago and switched it,

moved up. He likes to use cars, but just not when they get really high mileage like what y'all, you know. High mileage is such a relative word, you know, depending on the make of the car and the type. And that Lexus can go 300,000 miles if you take care of it. What about the hybrid and the battery? That's the other thing he's concerned about.

He's like, hey, we're going to drop 4,000 right now, and then in another year we're going to have to replace a hybrid battery. That's the other thing he's concerned about. He's like, hey, we're going to drop 4,000 right now, and then in another year, we're going to have to replace a hybrid battery. I don't know how he has a ball that can tell you the future, but that's amazing. Tell him to get off the news apps. He has to stop watching the news apps. Both my cars are hybrid.

Dude, it's a good car. It's a great car. If you were here, I would buy it from you at a comically discounted rate and go get it fixed and have an awesome car. It's a great vehicle. I want to tell you, we bought it on Craigslist from Private Party, and it was exactly what you all said. We bought it six or seven years ago, and we've had no issues with it until now.

Great. So we're literally just like, go on. Get a few opinions. Take the most reputable mechanic who's giving you the best deal. Get it done. And then later on, if you just hate it, you can go sell it for $9,000 and use some more cash and upgrade. And, George, I think there's clearly something sketchy here. Like, it doesn't work perfectly, and then somebody repairs something,

and then everything lights up like a Christmas tree on the dashboard. Something's going on. So take it to somebody else and have them look at it. I always get two or three estimates. I have trust issues, I guess. I don't have that kind of time, yeah. But I'll get one. John just has a good dude in his life, so we'll just be honest with him.

That is true. Yeah, that's really important. Let's run out to Maggie in Charleston. Hey, Maggie, what's up? Hey, guys. Thank you so much for taking my call. Of course. Hey, we're up against the clock, so swan dive into it. What's going on? Yep. So my company offers a SEP IRA, and they pay an additional 15% on top of my paycheck each month.

Can I count baby step number four as complete or should I be putting in additional money? You're saying they put in 15% of their own money? It's not your income? Correct. Okay, so we would consider this similar to a match where we need you to put in 15% of your income. And there's a few reasons for that. It's the same reason why we don't count the match. When you put in 15% of your income, you start to build this amazing savings and investing muscle. And regardless of where you go and what job is next, and if you stay and if they change the rules and what they decide to do,

you know how to live on 85% of your income. And so that's the key here. If you have too much money in retirement, please call us back and yell at us. I will be happy to take the blame for that. I'll give you my personal address and you can just, you can just, I'll take a regular check. You can just send it. So should I do the 10 additional 10% into a SEP since I can only do 25% max or should I do 15% into a different type of IRA?

Yeah, I would do the max that you can through that because it's a tax-advantaged account. And then you could open up your own IRA outside of your retirement account through your employer and continue there. Okay, all right. That makes sense. To finish out your 15%.

Absolutely. Hey, Maggie. Yeah. Are you like me? Have you already done the math on the things you'll buy since you didn't have the 15%? A little bit, yeah. Okay, so here's what's going to be frustrating.

You're going to get off this call and feel like you just lost something. And I want you to feel that and then know that that's not true. Okay. You know what I mean? Like if my boss says, hey, today you're getting a raise. It's going to be amazing. Well, in my a raise it's going to be amazing well in my head it's going to be a hundred thousand dollars and if he comes in at 10 grand that's an amazing raise but i feel like he took 90 000 from me right right so you've already spent that extra 15 and you're already holding that new car or guitar whatever it is you're

going to buy and so feel feel that it's totally real, but it's not true. And go use our investment calculator, Maggie, and go see what 30% going into that SEP IRA will do for you. You sound young, you've got a lot of life ahead. I hope you call back in the Baby Steps Millionaire theme hour and tell us all about your story. It's going to be amazing. Hey, Maggie, thank you for the call. 888-825-5225. This is The Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. All right, so I was born and raised in Texas, and I love the myth of the lone cowboy. You know, the guy who doesn't need anyone or anything. It's a fun story, and it's a lie. In our self-obsessed society,

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$10. $10. know your money from paycheck to purpose ten dollars ten bucks shop the memorial day ten dollar flash sale at ramsey solutions.com store this sale ends monday may 27th at 11 59 p.m let's go out to holy toledo ohio and talk to grace hey grace what's up? Hey, Dr. John, how are you? Pardon, dude, what are you up to? I'm just sitting here. Okay, so I called in. I have a special needs sibling, and our parents sort of set up

kind of like their future a little bit, like my sibling's future, but they haven't really done anything as far as getting them the help that they need or securing like a really like a future for them so what have they done i'm confused they um so one of our parents like our father has like no life insurance he doesn't have he i think he has like 50 000 in retirement he keeps talking about buying a house

he's in his 70s like five hours away and it's so he's broke and has no way to help and help set up his child right well he's actually not at like he has a really good pension, and then he gets like Medicare, Medicaid, the senior one. But he just is totally disinterested in maybe helping us find a home or... And when you say us, is this you and your sibling? And my sibling, correct. So you are now the full-time caretaker? Not yet, but I'm just kind of like preparing, I guess. You kind of know this is coming because no one else cares as much as you do.

I think so. Maybe that's it. All right, Grace. So I recently ended up with a whole bunch of stuff going on at the same time, like a bunch of house stuff, a bunch of kids stuff, like setting up stuff with my wife, like attorney stuff, work stuff, like it all was just chaotic. And it wasn't literally, I was walking through an airport and I said to myself, why don't you take your own advice, John? And I was like, that sounds like a good idea. And usually it's not a good idea, but this time it was. And here's what I did. I just sat down and I pulled out a yellow pad that I had in my backpack and I started writing down what I

know to be true and the things I don't know about. And then the things I know to be untrue, three different columns, because I can hear it in you. You have a lot of frustration, a lot of anger, a lot of I think so, and a lot of suppositions. And now you're starting to worry about imaginary futures that haven't even happened yet, aren't confirmed yet. You just don't know. Is that fair? Oh, absolutely. Okay. So the path through this chaos that you happen to be in right now, you're trying to solve problems that may or may not even be problems yet.

And that helps you avoid the actual problems. So, for instance, you're already doing math problems in your head about how you are going to pay and support your special needs brother. Why? Because you're a freaking amazing sister and um you're avoiding the conversation sitting down with your dad saying what is the status of your financial situation period are you not going to help your son or are you see what i'm saying no but we so we have tried to like we've like literally corner hit like we've had to corner him okay like he he did a dnr but only because we had a family friend who we literally like sat our dad in a corner and we were like you need to

get this done like i don't know what to do in the event something happened like and he refuses to outright talk about it okay so listen um Every minute you bang your head against that wall, you're choosing misery at this point. Listen, it's going to be hard to hear. Your dad cashed out. He quit. He will not do the thing that he is supposed to do, which is to honor and take care of

his kids and be honest about his upcoming passing away as he gets older and the realities of caring for a special needs kid, he is cashed out. He quit. So all the banging your head and hand wringing is you choosing to be miserable instead of, okay, what are we going to do now? And I know that sucks. I hate that for you. Where's your mom in this picture? Um, sort of also checked out. I mean, she, um, it's kind of a complicated situation. So she has like sort of a, like a trust set up for my

sibling. Um, and then a rental, like a, a rental property, but she's always like, Oh, I think I'm going to sell it. Um, i'm going to have to sell it if this and this happens and you can't rely on it which i never did but her life insurance she has to the way that she explained she has to pass away before the age of 82 in order for it to cash out so she lives beyond 82 like she, she gets, like, nothing. How old is she now? She is in her 60s. Okay.

So what is she doing now, between now and then, to actually build her own nest egg to where she's self-insured? I honestly, like, she doesn't like to talk about it either. So it's, I just, like you said, I feel like I'm just banging my head against the wall trying

to get answers out of anybody you are just trying to stop stop is your does your brother have um social security no how come have y'all filed for that yet that um that was never set up either okay then I want you to take responsibility for that. Do you have custody of him? No. Okay. I want you to pursue that with your parents. Let your parents know I'm going to pursue custody with my sibling. Well, let me ask you this.

Does he need custody? No. It's more like a, I don't want to get too specific, but it's like a learning disorder. Okay. So does he have a job? Can he live by himself? No. Okay.

But you think he's eligible for SSI at this point? Correct. Okay. Okay. Then go sit down with, make a phone call or two phone calls and sit down, whether it's an attorney or whether it's a social security office. The attorney is going to be a faster route, but it's going to cost money and they're going to explain things better because they're not a government agency. And you can walk through and get the path. What's my path forward here?

And we can go down that road and if you do this independent and there's no chance that mom and dad can come up and take some of that money which happens with some regularity and then you have to be honest not by your hand but in your lap you have to be honest about the situation you have found yourself and it's heartbreaking i would hug you if you were sitting here and you said it was okay. Thanks. Because you're a sister who sees her special needs brother and you're going to be taking care of her

and both of your parents have cashed out. And it sounds like they even have the means financially and they are choosing to walk away. And so you have to live in that picture. So what's that going to mean for how you earn and how you save and how your dream of a huge house might be a dream of an apartment and all what's that going to mean for how you earn and how you save and how your dream of a huge house

might be a dream of an apartment and all those things are going to change and you're going to have to live in that reality. Yeah. I think I'm trying

to still come to grips with that. I know. It's heartbreaking. How are you doing financially? Um, I think this is just so stressful

that I am trying to find an outlet in other ways, just like drawing and doing a couple other things. But I've managed to save roughly like $4,000 in my money market account. Amazing. Do you have any debt? Yeah, I have a student loan, and I have a year left on my car, roughly like $28,000. What's your income? $45,000.

I would sell that car. Yeah, so Grace, here's what we're going to do. You need freedom and space and margin right now. I'm going to hook you up with a few things. We're going to send you Financial Peace University, and I want you to go through those classes, all nine classes. I'm also going to set you up with a free financial coaching session with one of our financial coaches, and I'm going to pay for it. And I'm going to send you Building a Non-Anxious Life. And I want you to read that book and begin to craft your world around it. Like George said, you need margin and you need peace.

You got to stop banging your head against the wall. We'll be right back. Hey, you guys, health insurance costs are only moving one way and that way isn't down. And if higher costs aren't enough, the wait times to see your doctor are longer and it's harder than ever to get anything approved through the bureaucracy. So if you feel like the system is working against you, try a biblically-based alternative to health insurance, Christian Healthcare Ministries. CHM is a health cost-sharing ministry that's helped hundreds of thousands of families like yours take care of over $11 billion in medical bills since 1981. And CHM has also helped them stay true to their values and avoid miles of red tape. And CHM support goes far beyond meeting financial needs. They'll also help meet spiritual needs. Members become part of a family who will pray with them

and for them when they experience a medical event. So listen, y'all, there's no better way to take care of health care costs. CHM programs start as low as $98 a month. So learn more today and join at chministries.org slash budget. That's chministries.org slash budget. What up, what up? We are back. I'm John Deloney joined by george campbell and we're taking your calls on your money and your work and your life and your relationships 888-825-5225 uh gk so here's what sells in america end of times here's what sells in america blood guts it's all coming down right to be fair that's the more exciting version then everything's fine nothing to see here correct so movie would you rather watch that's true that's it that's right and since our news is now movies it's entertainment

it's not actual information anymore um everybody's walking around everybody i talked to but a meat is walking around just waiting for the earth to swallow them up if the flat earth doesn't fold and smush them in the process right or bigfoot doesn't come out so um we have this uh james the producer during the break brought us this quiz and this is a a quiz about how many Americans are wrong about key economic trends. All right, so if you're listening to this. We're going to let everyone take the quiz. Take the quiz. Here we go.

Question number one, is the U.S. in a recession, yes or no? And this is not a feeling. This is actually, is it based on the definition of a recession number two how has the s&p 500 index the stock market performed in 2024 stocks are up the market is down the market is flat it's unchanged how does the current number number three has a current unemployment rate compare with prior periods the unemployment rate is now near a 50-year low. The unemployment rate is near a 50-year high.

The unemployment rate still hasn't recovered from the pandemic. And the last question, is inflation increasing or decreasing? Here's the answer to these questions.

Number one, George, you give us the answers. Is the U.Ss in a recession the correct answer is no but george i feel like it is well about 56 of those polled said that we are currently experiencing a recession so it's based on just i guess their feelings about what a recession is as the gdp has been growing says the article fueled partly by strong consumer spending at rates that have exceeded economist expectations the the U.S. economy is not in a recession. That's math. How has the S&P 500 index performed in 2024? Stocks are up, the stock market is just coming

down, or it's unchanged? Correct answer is A, it is up for the year. It has climbed 11%. And yet about half of people polled said the stock market is down. Again, based on, I guess, feelings and headlines and seeing red triangles pointing down. Right. And their Facebook account has the one guy in the trunk of his car like, I know what's really going on out there, America. Or it's the guy being like, you need to buy gold, sell all your stocks. Sell it now, it's all going down. Yeah. Nope. Stock market is up. In fact, the the s&p 500 which represents the overall stock market has hit multiple record highs already in 2024 you wash your mouth that was soaked george camel that's not true it's all coming down all right um number three how does the current unemployment rate compare with prior periods?

Correct answer. It's at a near 50-year low, which, if you're confused, that's a good thing. The jobless rate stood at 3.9% in April, which was a near 50-year low. And yet, about half of those polled said it's near 50-year high. Who are they polling? The other half of whatever aisle. Right, exactly. Yes, news watchers.

Last question. Is inflation increasing or decreasing? Very truthful. Inflation's been gnarly the last few years. It's been tough. It's been tough all across the board here, right? Is inflation rising, falling, or staying static? Correct answer is B.

It is falling. And in fact, it's been declining since reaching a peak of 9.1 in June of 22. Most recent CPI reading, inflation was at 3.4%. So about 7 in 10 responded, believe 70% of people think inflation is still rising. So here's the confusing part. The rate at which prices are changing is falling. So that doesn't necessarily mean that prices are going to be coming down. It just means they're not moving higher at the rate they were. Ah, okay.

So things are still getting more expensive. It's a good delineation. Things are still getting more expensive, but instead of going to every time you go to the supermarket, like every week, milk's going up a quarter every time. Now it's only going up a dime. Yes, that's the concept there so nothing to freak out about well here's the one let me ask one one uh freak out question um the question about consumer spending where's that money coming from are we borrowing that

so are we are we kind of duct taping over a recession that's my big economic theory everyone's like we need to stop and the feds keeps messing this up i'm like you all keep messing this up america the feds like hey can we all can we get everyone to stop spending let's increase the interest rates and people go nah i'll buy a 60 000 truck at 13 apr it's fine so we've just gotten so used to spending with other people's money that we just go we'll worry about this is a problem for future john this is this is a problem for future george so we a problem for future George. So we keep spending at record rates, even though credit card debt is at an all-time high of $1.1 plus trillion with 22% APR average. It hurts my brain that we have not slowed

down because we're so addicted to spending and borrowing other people's money. And it's as though the Fed has been trying to crash that. Stop spending. And we're like, nope. And they're like, all right, we're going to raise the rates. And we're like, eh, hold my beer. I'll spend more. And they're like, we're going to raise it even higher.

Eh, we'll still keep going. And America's like, I'll take the challenge. See how much debt we can get into, baby. I accept. I accept Fed. Oh, my goodness. And it looks like the Fed now is like, whatever, dude. Well, thanks for some good news there, John. It's not as bad as it seems. I fed it's now it's like whatever dude well thanks for some good news there john it's not as bad as it's good news well the good news well the bad news is people are relying on feelings instead of just facts about what's going on and they're letting

the news direct their emotions and their spending versus looking at facts going you know what how's my house doing how's my that's that's the. If I could tell anybody one thing, ask how is your house doing? How's your marriage doing? How's your kids doing? How are your finances doing? If everybody would go home and look in the mirror and ask that question and begin to solve that problem. It's amazing how many people think

the world's political problems are theirs to solve. And yet the stuff going on in their house, like, well, I can't fix my marriage, John. I can't get out of debt. I can't clean my house until my neighbor cleans up their yard. But let me tell you my geopolitical opinions on Facebook, because I think this is going to be the take that solves all of this. Jeez.

All right, let's go out to Dallas, Texas, and talk to the mighty Paul. Hey, Paul, what's up, man? Hey, how's it going? We're figuring out life, dude. What's up? I feel that. So I just finished my first year of college. I'm fully, fully dependent on my parents, live at home,

don't have a car payment, don't have a car, don't have insurance, anything like that. As far as debt's concerned, I got two FAFSA loans for 5.5 each, paper college, and then $2,700 for my parents with no interest, as long as I pay it back after I graduate. So I'm working 22 and a half hours a week at $20 an hour, and I have an internship for

14 to 21 hours a week unpaid. This is my first time now after the semester, you know, money really felt real after signing off the check for college. And so I decided I wanted to make a budget. And this is my first time doing that. So given the position I'm in, I need about $3,000 to $4,000 per semester for this upcoming year. What percentage should I be putting into saving versus spending versus investing at this point in my life? At this point in your life, you would be where we call baby step two. Do you have a thousand bucks in the bank? No, I have about 600 right now. I get about

a thousand three hundred a month. Rewind. You're in baby step one. You're trying to save up a thousand bucks. Can you do that next paycheck? Yeah. Good. That will then put you in baby step two where you pay off all of your consumer debt. So the key right now as a college student is to stop the bleeding, not go into any more debt, and end up graduating completely debt-free with money in the bank. Which means, Paul, you didn't hear anything about investing in there or anything about saving. And so the key right now is to stop the bleeding. I don't want you investing 15% and being like, yeah, I funded an IRA while you continue to rack up debt at 6% interest. Right. So you hear what George said. Don't save past $1,000 because you're already 11, 12 in the hole.

Right. You have a negative net worth. You're going backwards. And by the way, some of that money is owed to the government, and some of that's to your mommy and daddy. Those are two entities I do not want to owe money to. Yeah. As you create your budget,

all of the margin needs to go to paying off debt and funding the next semester. And if you need to fund the next semester, I'd rather you not go into any more debt before you pay any off. That also means you might have to take a break from school because you can't afford it. Not saying you have to, but pay cash. Pay cash. You make $1,800 a month. Let's put that to good use while you have no bills. This is The Ramsey Show.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm John Deloney, joined by George Camel. George, there are two amazing people out in the audience out there. That's true. And I claim them. They are my parents, Max and May Camel. You've heard about them, and they're visiting mostly to see their grandbaby,

which is fair, but it's an honor to have them up front. My mom is a faithful watcher on the big screen, and she tells me. She'll text me and go, you need to smile more. I'm like, Mom, I'm taking a sad call. It looks weird if I smile, but I love them dearly. I owe my whole life to them, both literally and figuratively, with who I am today. Literally. Shout out to the parents for sitting around for three hours and watching your son do this. Love them dearly. I owe my whole life to them, both literally and figuratively, with who I am today.

Literally. Shout out to the parents for sitting around for three hours and watching your son do this. Who's more critical, me or your mom? Definitely my mom doesn't hurt my feelings as much. You are more hurtful, I will say that. There's no comparison, James. You are infinitely harder on my psyche than my mom is. But George, your mom is beautiful. Your dad is devastatingly handsome.

Oh, thank you, thank you, thank you. I get all my good looks from them. It's fantastic. Hey, if you're listening to the show, or you're listening to that last segment we did about the state of the economy, and you're just frustrated because everybody seems to be acting the fool,

you can help by doing something as simple as subscribing, leaving a five-star review sharing the show with a friend it just kicks the show up and the algorithms doesn't cost you any money takes 10 seconds and it puts the show in front of more people so that more people can go yeah you know what i'm gonna take control of my house i'm gonna stop complaining about my neighborhood and about some government people who could care less about me they absolutely don't care care about me. They care about their own power and their own drama. I'm going to start taking control of my house. And the more that we can kick this show up in the different algorithms, the better off we're all going to be. So subscribe, leave a review,

share with a friend, all the internet-y things, and just know we're super grateful for you. Let's roll out to Nicole and go to Little Rock, Arkansas. Hey, Nicole. Hi. Happy Friday. And also with you. Thank you. I am 27, and my best friend and I just started planning a trip last night to see our friend in Seattle. And the trip will be around $1,000.

But while we were planning last night, she casually dropped in that she has $8,000 in credit card debt and I'm having trouble because I don't want to insert myself into her finances but also I think going on this trip would be enabling her to send into debt and my immediate reaction is to cancel the trip and maybe like fly our friend down instead but um my question is should i sit her down and tell her that i don't think the trip is a good idea or should i stay out of it and keep planning with this trip i have an instant gut response george what do you think my gut is we can't control people and you're you're attempting to do that by canceling the trip i assume she's not going to go by herself right um maybe not i don't know but we could also maybe assume she's gonna go spend this money elsewhere and go into debt and we also can't control that so do i think you're a bad person if you go on this trip and you do it debt-free and you live your life no how she chooses to live her life and how she chooses to pay is her business you're not

dragging her on this vacation right i'm i'm i'm very similar here's my thoughts on it like if if you have a moral conviction about this trip for instance when we get there, we're going to go find a bunch of elderly folks and steal from them. Or we're going to go get hammered and then do a bunch of drugs. And I don't want to participate in that. Right. If you have a moral conviction, I do not associate with people who borrow money. I don't go to dinners where people are borrowing, putting money on dinner on credit card. I don't, I don't participate then cool. I really would be wary about walking around being the moral police with everybody. I have tons of

friends. I'm the only friend in my little gang that doesn't use credit card points, no matter how, and they make fun of me for my arguments or they say, actually arguments are pretty good, but I'm still going to do it anyway um i am one of just a few friends that writes a check i mean that drives old cars and writes a check for them right i i until they invite me into that conversation then i i just don't answer questions that i'm not asked um if you feel like i'm watching my friend drown then then I think you have an obligation to say, hey, you just said you have eight grand in debt. Is this a smart trip for you? I'm not judging. I just want to make sure you're okay because I love you. Maybe that's the question. But I think you have to ask yourself, am I a person who never associates with somebody who

borrows money? You're not going to have a lot of friends, but you can roll that way if you wish. You get to pick your own values. They just always come with a cost. Or are you trying to be this person's mother, right? What do you think it is? I'm not sure. What would your friend's reaction be? Let's say you addressed it in the most polite, sweet, friendly way possible without condemning or shaming what do you think her reaction would be i think she would be embarrassed i think she knows she would get defensive i'm guessing yeah which is going to cause a rift in your relationship with her and it's going to make things awkward it's going to make the trip awkward if you still go because she's going to know in the back of her mind that you're judging everything she swipes that card for on that trip and for that reason i don't think this is going to be a fun trip yeah or the other side of it is you sit down and you say all right here's the deal i love you i had a great last couple of

months you owe eight grand i i'm willing we don't have to i'm all excited to go on this trip i'm willing to um fly our friend down. No one will ever know. We're going to fly him down. You and I are going to fly her down and we're going to do the party here. I just want you to know that option is on the table in case she feels quietly pressured to do this. Yeah, that's a good idea. And by the way, if this is a friend that can't hear that conversation, this is going to be a miserable trip anyway because this friend and you are not that close like the other day will he's a sound engineer in here um we went to dinner he showed up with a ton

of drugs and i was like will like that's a lot of drugs and he was like you're right and so he just halved his drug intake for the night. I'm just kidding. Will is like the greatest guy ever. He doesn't do drugs. But you see what I'm saying? Like, a true friend can hear one of their other friends being concerned about them. And they can tell the difference between love and criticism.

And they can tell the difference between love and judgment. And that's what I want you to be careful. You're not better than your friend. You don't have any debt. See the difference? Right. Okay, we threw a lot at you. What are you going to do? Now I'm kind of invested in this.

Like an episode of the OC. People want to know. Yeah. Where are they now? I'm going to sit on this, but I think... Get her on a three-way call. Let's go. Let's call her. You want to call her right now let's call her that would be so cool I was just playing do we have the ability to do that

yeah we could do that does she know she's going to be on air I'd be so nervous you put me on the Ramsey show without telling me I'd like to do this in person I think it's a good idea to say I just want to like give you this option because I know now that you are in $8,000 in credit card debt.

I don't know if I'll like actually say, I know that you're in $8,000. Well, just say, Hey, I know this trip is expensive. It's going to, it's costing me a thousand bucks. That feels like a lot on top of, you know, I know like you want to get out of this credit card debt. This is not going to help. What if we did the trip here and we flew our friend down? Yeah.

And you just kind of posit it as a hypothetical, a question instead of a statement. That might help. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's a good idea. All right. Well, hey, best of luck to you. Everybody listening out there,

when you join the Baby Steps path or when you decide to start healing your marriage or you decide to start losing weight, start an exercise program, whatever thing you got going on in your life, it's real easy to begin to look around and start judging folks and to start throwing grenades at people. Like, I can't believe it. Man, A, that's an exhausting, unhelpful way to live. But when you walk into a room, George, or you walk into your office, you walk into the mall, you walk into wherever, and you're just judging everybody, they don't know you're doing it. You're just choosing to have a more miserable day. And on the other side, if you have some firm values and you love and care about somebody, and you see a truck coming right at them, you have an obligation to push them out of the way. And if this is one of those situations where I in good conscience can't let you dig a deeper hole to run around and be silly

on a vacation together, let's figure out another path. I think that your friend, the person you love is worth that conversation. I found that I never increased my judgment and also increased my joy. The two cannot coexist. You should tweet that. That's a good tweet. If I used Twitter, I would, John. Yeah. But thank you. This is a hard conversation.

It's not easy and it's a great reminder for those that do follow the baby steps. Tread lightly. I don't talk about money with my friends unless they want to ask me. That's right. That's it. And I talk about this stuff all day long. That's right. Well, hey, thanks, America.

We will be right back. This is The Ramsey Show. Take care.