The Ramsey Show - App - Is the US Really in a Recession? (Hour 2)

Episode Date: July 29, 2024

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Dr. John Deloney, Ph.D. in Counseling, Ramsey Personality, host of the Dr. John Deloney Show, one of the more popular Ramsey Network shows out there, and, of course, number one best-selling author. He's my co-host today as we answer your questions about your life and your money. Open phones at 888-825-5225. So last week, we did something I've never done before. Well, to start with, we had the last grandbaby came on Sunday.

So Daniel had Evelyn Grace, which is precious. And he has informed us that's his last one. And the and he has informed us that's his last one, and the girls have both informed us that's their last one. So we have eight. We'll top out at eight. And baby came at 11. In the afternoon, we flew to Washington, D.C. after holding Evelyn Grace and took our oldest grandson, 10, on his—apparently, we do grandparents' 10-year trips with each kid now.

And I just found this out. So we do this, and we had trips with each kid now, and I just found this out. So we do this, and we had Washington, D.C., and touring everything, the Capitol, the White House, the Tomb of the Unknown, the Marines at the Iwo Jima statue doing the drum and bugle corps with the snap rifle hole routine, and he loved that. And if you don't come away, even in the middle of a political climate like we're in, if you don't come away even in the middle of a political climate like we're in if you don't come away from a visit from washington dc when you're 10 years old feeling very patriotic something's wrong with your grandpa so uh grandpa made sure

he saw and saluted and saw and understood it was very fun a very fun trip and you know in the middle of all this rhetoric then i open up and i notice the post you put on instagram of okay if you've decided who to vote for quit watching this stuff all it does is piss you off okay because all because you're not gonna no one ever said uh okay i don't know would somebody help me well i haven't seen one single post where there's someone like trying to weigh the issues it's somebody yelling at the other person. And I thought, I've never met a diehard Republican. It's like, you know what?

You're right. I'm out. Or vice versa. Completely messed this whole thing up. Yeah. So if you already know you can vote for it, just turn it off, man. Just turn it off. So a CNBC Princess article, is the U.S. in a recession?

Of course, we're in a political season. So the Republicans are saying that the democrats have ruined the economy uh that's part of running for office about three in five americans think so um by most measure the u.s economy is doing well and yet many people would argue otherwise roughly three and five americans believe that the u.s is currently in a recession, according to a new survey of 2,000 adults by a firm. See, I don't understand. All this means is you people, some of you that I've surveyed are freaking illiterate. Okay?

Because a recession is not a feeling. That needs to be your post of the day, Dave, which I know you spend lots of time contemplating. There's an economics. If you take economics, and if you're going to use words like recession, that's an economic term. You should understand the definition of the word is two consecutive quarters of the gross domestic product, which is the measure of all goods and services in the U.S., shrinking. If the economy recedes, shrinks, by the measure of the gross domestic product, two consecutive quarters, we are in a recession. If it didn't, we are not.

It's a math thing. You don't, one plus one, I'm not sure. I don't feel like it's two. I'm not sure if it's a it's a math thing you don't one plus one i'm not sure i don't feel like it's two i'm not sure if it's two and my feelings matter i love the idea about the question my feelings matter even the question the question is wrong what do you do you believe we're in a recession you dumb butt don't you know what this is that you either is or you isn't. It's a math thing. Hi, this is John from the John Deloney Show. Do you believe the sky is orange? Yeah.

Three out of five Americans. They believe that. What do you believe? I don't give a crap what you believe. Some of you people's parents are cousins. I don't care what you believe. This thing, a recession is an economic term. You either is or you isn't there.

It's a math measure now you can say is the economy do you believe the economy is doing well you could say do you think we're in a time of prosperity those are more subjective versus objective terms are you feeling good about things yes do you are you better the famous reagan line are you better off now than you were four years ago? You know, you could say I am or I aren't. And then you have to answer the question that goes with that is, do you think Washington actually had anything to do with it?

Which it usually didn't. If you're better off, it's not their fault. None of them. All of them together, put together, can't find a brain. Okay? They can't balance their budget. If you ran your household like they run that place, you'd be bankrupt. So please don't tell me they helped you.

Unless you got a government contract, you're not prospering because of them. So now moving on from that, you know, this thing, you know, so if you're waiting on Biden or Kamala or Trump or Vance or whoever to fix your life, your life already sucks. You got because you got your eye on the wrong thing. Get you a mirror. That is your solution. So three in five Americans believe the U.S. economy is currently. I don't care what you believe is. Are we actually in a shrinking economy or aren't we? Let me help you with this. The housing market, there's a shortage. Prices

continue to go up. Up. So guess what part of the gross domestic product is? Housing. Up. up it's growing not shrinking up wrong way for recession let me help you with this the stock market is up 15.3 percent since the beginning of the year now i don't care if you think a democrat did that or republican did that in either either case, you'd be wrong. But nevertheless, the American stock market is up. If you had a million dollars in there at the beginning of January, you now have 1,150,000. It's up 15.3% as of today from the first of the year. Now, you know, that's not a feeling. Dave, my feelings are all that matter. Yeah, this is the problem.

According to a separate Guardian-Harris poll from May, 56% of respondents said they believe the U.S. is in a recession, although gross domestic product has been increasing for the past several years. Officially, the National Bureau of Economic Research defines a recession as a significant decline in economic activity that's spread across the economy and lasts more than a few months. Well, that's even wrong. There's a technical definition. Freaking take economics. God, I got a degree in finance. They make us

take economics. Listen, we were talking about this before the show started, Dave. This idea that real facts don't matter. It's like, hey, gross domestic product has been going up what do you feel like i feel like we're in a recession it's like i know but like i just told you the data like yeah i know but my feelings are more important than the data so uh i feel that that's correct yeah madness and please don't hear me saying that biden caused this he's asleep he didn't cause

anything okay he didn't cause anything all they're doing is causing disruption and everything and the same is true the other side so i'm sorry boys and girls uh you're if you feel like things are bad it might be bad at your house and maybe there's some reason to do something about that or all the tiktokers on your account might be having bad things going. Maybe you should unplug the internet for a few days and see if your negativity wanes. Who knows? But let me help you with this. Affirm and CNBC.

Recession's not a feeling. Why is this hard? More than a feeling. Wow. There's a little Boston sneak in there. Is that Boston? No, it wasn't even close. That was Boston.

I mean, the song is Boston, but that wasn't close. That was not close. This is The Ramsey Show. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. All right, so I was born and raised in Texas, and I love the myth of the lone cowboy. You know, the guy who doesn't need anyone or anything. It's a fun story, and it's a lie. In our self-obsessed society, we're obsessed about our own diets, our own workout routines, our own jobs,

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anytime you read a good book, Jack Carr's got a new book out. Uh, if the terminal list, he's read every one of his and so yeah i'm telling everybody go get the new one it's good it's very cool so falcons brought me a copy of jack's new book have you seen it i saw that he signed it and he shot it oh i didn't see that it's got a bullet hole in it that's fabulous if you don't know jack he's a former seal and so these are all that's a good friend navy seal books and they're like you know shoot them up spy movie type stuff and they're great books fiction obviously and uh yeah but so it has a bullet hole in it it's amazing i may want to do that with my next book i think that would be fantastic has absolutely nothing to do with

the book which is does but i still want to do it anyway yeah that's pretty cool all right uh kathy's in philadelphia hi kathy welcome to the ramsey show hello um i'm calling today with a question i can hope uh or i hope you guys can help me with uh my husband and i are considering putting in a solar array to offset our utility bill and And I was, um, I just wanted to like bounce the numbers off of you and see if it was a smart move with where we're at currently. Um, so hubs and I are like between baby steps five and six, I guess, like we have a substantial amount of money in savings, but we haven't earmarked that like specifically this, this is child A, this is child B. There's their college fund. They're pretty young yet, three and five.

We feel like we've got some time to- So you would pay cash for the solar? That's what we want to do. How much is it? For the solar. The unit's about $53,000. Okay. And what's the break even on it

uh they say they have it calculated out and we looked at the numbers about eight years we'd have it all back between like the itc and our like state credits for pennsylvania and frec and those things okay that's borderline i usually look for a five to a seven year break even. And most of the time that you see that you're going to get that, it's going to be in a area of the country that is a lot of sun. So, I mean, like, you know, a Phoenix, Arizona type of a thing, you're, you know, that kind of thing. You're not going to, it's a little different than Philly and not Seattle, you know, that kind of stuff. So you just think about what you got. I don't know the technical parts.

What I do know from the financial side is I've been doing this for 35 years. I've watched the solar panel efficiency as far as what's the break-even meaning. What do you pay for it? How quickly can it convert the energy? How efficiently can it convert the energy how efficiently can it convert the energy thus how fast it saves you money i've watched the technology on that uh it's probably five or ten times better than it was 30 years ago it's really come a long long way it used to just be total crap and now it's like i actually endorse solar companies in a couple of cities that we have

talk radio on you know and I'm fine to do that as long I don't endorse financing it obviously um but um but generally I tell folks a five to a seven uh your eight is borderline what I might do is see if they're selling you some bells and whistles you could take off that would still get you that would get you down to the 40,000 range or so and that might get you to a six or seven year break even maybe they got you um you know with a convertible and power windows i don't know right right right but you know check that out learn about that that's what i would do if i were in this situation but uh i'd run one more company to have one more company come over come over and give a bid and see what they're saying. That's a good idea.

Well, we ran two companies, and we actually have gotten from $75,000 down to $52,000, $53,000 by pitting them against each other. So we feel like we're kind of, that's about where, I mean, I could bring in a third company, but I feel like at this point, you know, if we've come down $25,000 almost. That's a good start. That's a good start. They got some margin in that crap, huh? That's cool.

Okay, so I knew they were making bank, but I'm a fan of the technology. I'm not a fan of the, you're not doing this, but for the rest of you out there, that they really try to force a payment plan on you and go, look, your payment is less than the amount you're going to save on your electric bill. No, that's dumb butt stuff because the things are attached to your house and then you're you got a mess you got a lien on your property you got all kinds of mess no do not finance them ever do not finance anything ever you're listening to dave freaking ramsey okay so but the uh but you're not doing that but that's for everybody else the the technology has come a long, long way.

I will tell you this, Kathy. I think it's going to go a long way further. So, like, if you sell your house in seven years or eight years, probably what's attached to your house is crap. Okay. It'd be like you had a seven-year-old computer or a seven-year-old cell phone. You know, how much further it's come along. That's the pace of change in the technology.

And so don't think this is going to enhance the sale of your house. It's probably cluttering the sale of your house a decade from today. That's why I want you to get a quick break even on it. Because it's just, you know, what is a seven-year-old computer? A doorstop. You know, that's why i want you to get a quick break even on it because it's just you know what is a seven-year-old computer a doorstop you know that's what it is you know it's like what it has to boot up you know it's like you know where's the dos what is this what is this strange speech ball thing you know it's like you know so um i even handed one of our uh audio guys an old ipod that i found and said hey i want to pull the music off of it because I don't let my son have a phone out in the wild.

But I said, I want you to fill it with all country songs. He looked at me like I had just handed him a box of fresh dog turds. He's like, what is this? I don't know what to do with this thing. Yeah, I probably could have used a better analogy on your radio show, Dave. Our radio

show. Our radio show. Our radio show. There we go. Thank you. But, yeah, it was strange. But, hey, he took it back and figured it out, man. There you go. Well, because he's that guy. Alex is with us.

Alex is in Tallahassee. Hi, Alex. How are you? Good. How about yourself, Dave and John? Good. How can we help? Yeah.

My wife and I have a little scenario. We currently have owned seven properties. One of them is my primary residence and then six investments. Three of the investment properties are paid off, and we've been discussing about maybe selling two properties, and selling two properties would pay off the remaining of the balance that I have on the four other properties that still have a mortgage on them. You'd be a hundred percent debt-free. Including my primary, yes sir. I would do that. Right now? Today? Yes. Yeah, today. Okay.

I love real estate, I love real estate, Alex, but I like being debt-free more. I agree. And we were trying to hold on to the not so properties and just add more to the portfolio just for our children in the future but you'll be able to do that because you won't have any payments i see you the number of the how much you can stack cash with no payments to be able to buy the next one debt free and buy the next one debt free and buy the next one debt free that's what i started doing about 20 years ago and i've got okay quite a large amount of real estate now i can ask one more quick question on the topic of real estate yes sir on the property once they're our paid off would you recommend i continue to keep the homeowner's insurance yes i'm in florida and

homeowner's insurance is well it's not homeowners E.C. It's not technically homeowners. Homeowners is for owner-occupied only. But Fire and E.C. You know, you've got to run the analysis on it. I didn't think about you being in Florida. Ugh. That's super expensive. You're right.

Just run an analysis on it and go, how much of this pain am I willing to absorb? What happened if they all got wiped off the face of the earth by a hurricane? What would you do? Ugh. Wish you had insurance? Yeah, maybe. I don't know. That's what I'm, that's the, I run a worst case scenario through my emotional filters

and see if I end up crying or not. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, you guys, health insurance costs are only moving one way and that way isn't down. And if higher costs aren't enough, the wait times to see your doctor are longer, and it's harder than ever to get anything approved through the bureaucracy. So if you feel like the system is working against you, try a biblically-based alternative to health insurance, Christian Healthcare Ministries. CHM is a health cost-sharing ministry that's helped hundreds of

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So learn more today and join at chministries.org slash budget. That's chministries.org slash budgets at chministries.org slash budgets. Thanks for joining us, America. I'm Dave Ramsey, Dr. John Deloney. Ramsey Personality is our co-host. Today's question of the day comes from Amanda in Connecticut. Amanda writes, my husband and I are in our late 30s and the only debt we have is our mortgage which will be paid off in the next year i'd like to start planning for baby step seven and where to invest our money when we get there i listened to breaking free from broke by george camel and george mentioned the whole and universal life insurance are not wise forms of investing

i currently have three policies one is a 10-year term, another is whole and universal, and one has a $70,000 cash value. I have a 401k that is about 70 grand in it, and I'm wondering what I should do with the life insurance policies. Should I keep them and keep paying the monthly premium or cancel some or all of the policies, and put that money towards different investments or add the funds to my 401k? You can't add the funds to your 401k. You don't have a method for doing that. 401k is only payroll deduct. So that's not an option.

But George is right. Universal life. Any kind of life insurance that has a savings program built into it is a bad deal 100% of the time, period. And all you got to do is run the numbers to figure that out. The average whole life or universal life sounds like this. If you bought a term life insurance policy for 20 year level term, and the premium was $5 a month,

if you bought the exact amount of insurance with cash value, it would be $100 a month. It's 20 times more. What does the other $95 go to? Well, it's obviously not for insurance. You can buy the insurance for $5. So it has to be going towards a savings plan. So what does a whole life life insurance policy look like?

The first three years that you put 95 of your per $100 a month into the savings plan, you get nothing. The cash value in a cash value plan the first three years equals zero. You've obviously been doing it longer than that. You've got $70,000 in there. After that, you finally do start getting some return. The average whole life policy, according to much data that is out there in financial planning, not hard to find at all, 1.2% a year. So it doesn't even keep up with a savings account, much less a CD or a high-yield savings account,

much less a good investment. A good investment would be yielding you north of 10, like a good mutual fund, okay? Horrible rate of return. The first three years, they keep all your money. The biggest problem with these policies is that you've paid an extra $95 per $100 per month for this. And if you die today, Amanda, the $70,000 that you have in cash value will not come to your heirs.

They only pay the face amount of the policy. So let's say this was a $200,000 policy that you could have bought for $5. Instead, you're paying $100 for it to build up an extra $70. So now you have a savings account that the first three years you put money in the savings account, they keep it all. After that, they pay you 1.2%. And after that, when you die, they keep your money. No one would open a savings account like that. And yet millions of Americans have called whole life life insurance policies. The only people that still believe in this crap are the people that sell it. Everyone else in the financial world just kind of laughs and goes, that's the payday lender of

the middle class right there, baby. They are screwing you to no end. So George is exactly right. It's crap, crap, crap. Now make sure you have the right amount of term insurance. If you need term insurance in place, you can go to Zanderinsurance.com. We've been endorsing them for 20 plus years. They're personal friends of ours. They do a great job. Go over there, get you some term insurance in place, and then cancel this garbage. Because if you die before you get this canceled, they're going to keep your 70 000 bucks

that's bad that's expensive insurance so and then take your 70 grand pay it down on your house get your house paid off as quick as you can so if you find yourself here you can go withdraw all that amount you can cancel the policy and they send you the check. But if you die, they keep it? Yep. That's so weird. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you lose the insurance when you cancel it. Sure. But whoop-de-doop-dee.

Yeah. The insurance costs you whatever you're paying for it per month plus 70 grand. That's expensive insurance. And by the way, they are taking, they're paying you 1.2%. They're taking that and investing it and they're keeping the. Oh, let me tell you exactly what they're doing with it okay the primary place you go if you have a commercial building to get a mortgage it's from a life insurance company you want to build an apartment complex with 500 units and it's 15 million dollars you know you go to xyz insurance company and they loan the money out and it's seven eight percent on a coin it's they do commercial lending with

it's the primary thing on real estate. So it's actually very secure. So they're making the gap or they're keeping the building. Definitely making the gap. They're definitely making the gap. Yeah, that's why their buildings are so tall. And your houses are so small. Exactly.

It's the payday lender of the middle class. Kimmy's with us. Kimmy is in New Orleans. Hi, Kimmy. Hi, Dave and Josh. I truly appreciate you all taking my call. Sure. How can I help? Thank you. So besides being Christians, my boyfriend and I really look up to you, Dave, and the lessons that you teach us financially. We've recently been talking about marriage being

in the future up ahead and God leading us. And I'm a business owner of a caregiving service, and he actually works for the federal government. And I have this opportunity from one of my clients whose family members was one of our residents in our care. This client is a doctor, and she referred my company and my team and I to a hospital here locally. And she let me know, like, hey, look, I'm giving you a good review. Go there. I think your care should be in the hospital, too.

I think it's time for your team to scale up. And so she was like, you know, you may have to put a bit of money towards a luncheon. She was like, but it's going to be great for your clientele list. I'm sorry, why do we have to have a luncheon to do caregiving? So that I can sit with like 50 of the caseworkers and talk to them about it. Okay, is that who makes the decision as to whether you get to be a caregiver? No, no, no. Who makes the decision?

Oh, well, they make the decision as far as referring us to the patient there. I know, but do they not have to have the permission of their hospital to do that? No. It just comes through them, from what I've been told. Like, they handle that you mean like a nurse what kind of care yeah yes sir so the nurses independent of the hospital that they work for decide who they're going to refer care to no okay no they don't i don't think i don't know anything about that world but that that sounds weird. I can't imagine. There were a couple of options that I was given.

I want to find out who the decision maker is. Okay. And I don't think your info is solid, so I want you to dig a little further. I might be wrong. I'm willing to be wrong, Kimmy. Okay. Let's run down two scenarios. Let's pretend that the hospital administration determines who the nurses refer caregiving to, which would be logical to me.

But I could be wrong. In that case, you would spend a lunch buying them lunch, all three of them, which would be like nothing. Or just having a meeting with them and doing a presentation and getting permission and endorsement to allow you to then meet with them. Now, if they give you the go-ahead and say, okay, we will authorize you to and authorize our nurses to refer to you, and you need to meet with all of them in order to build a relationship with them to get that referral going versus the other two people they can send it to, then I would spend the money on the nurse with on the luncheon with the nurses or option two is you find out dave's wrong which is highly possible here i don't think so but it's possible highly just kidding but let's say let's say i'm wrong and the nurses actually do get to make the decision completely

independent of their employer. Then, yeah, it's a prospecting lunch. You know, you're like buying a booth at a nurse's convention is what you're doing. You're going to spend $1,000 and go meet with those nurses? Yeah, I would buy them all lunch. And I always do the quick math on how many of these need to convert, right? How many books do I need to sell to make this booth worth it? How many of these would I need to convert?

And you're probably going to be, it's probably going to be not that many. Yeah. Right? How many books do I need to sell to make this booth worth it? How many of these would I need to convert? And you're probably going to be, it's probably going to be not that many. Yeah. I mean, if you make $1,000 on one customer and you buy 40 nurses lunch, all you got to do is get one. That's it. And you're okay. But if you make $10 a customer, that might not be as good. Hey, John. Yeah, Dave. hey john yeah dave amazon music just put up a huge ramsey show billboard on time square it's kind of amazing you see it no look at it

is that pretty cool we picked the best looking personality say you didn't put george on there that kind of hurts yeah ge, George and Jade, apparently. We just took a new picture, but I guess they didn't have that with all of us in it. Dude, amazing. That's really great. That's pretty cool. I mean, those things are digital, so it was probably up there eight or ten seconds. But he caught it, and now it's forever.

Whoops! When you were a little kid in East Tennessee, did you think one day? Someday I'll be on Times Square. You'll be on Times Square. time square yeah surrounded by a couple of goofballs in jade warshaw there you go and the um 8 000 other digital billboards yeah but it's still it's wonderful thank you amazon music seriously all kidding aside that's fantastic that's that's what i want i think very nice all right mackenzie's with us in Dallas, Texas. Hi, Mackenzie. What's up? Hi, Dave.

Hi, John. So my question for you guys is my mom asked me to help her plan for retirement. And in doing so, we met with a financial planner. And they advised her to sell some stocks that are actually in my dad's name in order to pay off her debt. And I'm not sure how to advise her because A, she'd have to get my dad's approval on that. And B, she's never really stuck to a budget. So I'm afraid even if she pays it off in one fell swoop that she'll just re-rack up the credit card debt rather than if she stuck to a budget and followed the baby steps and did it that snowball.

I'm confused what happened where your dad and mom don't live together? Oh, no, they do. Okay. So they're not his stocks then. They're their stocks. Yeah. They just happen to be in his name. I'm sorry?

Yeah. He considers it his um retirement savings yeah i considered his house he's living in too oh i agree she's wanting to pay off kind of interesting how he chose to separate the two yeah yeah that's bogus um so what we should be doing your mom and your dad would be planning to retire together since they're freaking married i agree okay instead of like oh this is mine and that's yours that's so stupid because you're going to use it up either way yep i assume when he dies his stock will go to her yeah and vice versa her house will go to him have they get married no they get married late they got you so no less no okay yeah they're 10 years apart, so he got married late, she got married early.

So I would suggest to this couple that they approach retirement holistically, that they should combine all of their assets and use those combined assets to create a combined picture of what retirement should look like and execute that. If I were doing that, I would sell his stock in about 20 seconds, her stock, their stock, and pay off their house. Yes, you should go into retirement with a paid-for house, absolutely. And we should be on a budget together, and we decide on spending together. If we're not going to do that, I really can't advise you because you're already divorced.

You just still happen to be living together. Yeah. My mom's afraid to tell him about all the credit card debt she's racked up, honestly. Yeah. And so now you're participating in her deception. Yeah. I keep telling her to tell him because it's not my place to yeah Mackenzie in their marriage Mackenzie you got to tell your mom hey I gotta get I gotta get out of the middle of this

yeah that's what I'm thinking yeah I think that's the conversation to have because she's not interested in your help she's interested in you being Thelma to her Louise and this ends badly for everybody John let me ask you this i would it be okay to help help mom with courage because obviously mom is intimidated as crap by him yeah if he's abusive or ashamed heck yeah or something would it be okay for her to sit in yeah and say i'm gonna sit here with you while you tell dad everything and then i'm gonna strongly suggest to the two of you that you start acting like you're married from this point forward and combine things and develop a picture of what the future looks like yeah but mckenzie i'm taking it from the way you talk that

your dad still treats you like you're 12 um no my my dad's not really involved in the finances like at all okay um except for the part where he owns the stock and doesn't want anybody to have it okay well no it's not that it's i mean my mom's uh retirement is like 10 times that um but uh my dad is like super super frugal and he doesn't pay attention to their finances um and my mom's more concerned about his mental health if he sees how much debt they have, that he might do something drastic for himself. Like she thinks he's going to hurt himself? Yeah. Then she needs to call a professional ASAP

because this ends poorly. He'll find out. Yeah, that's what I keep telling her. I keep telling her that she just needs to be transparent. Well, here's what she's done though. I keep telling her that she just needs to be transparent. Here's what she's done, though. She has placed an incredible burden on her daughter because now you have to act for the safety of your father. If that's a real – his self-harm is a real threat

and not just something your mom is saying to put off having this conversation. If you believe that to be true, then you have to act on behalf of your father. Do you believe that or do you think she's full of crap just because she's shamed? I kind of think she's full of crap. Yeah, I do too. I think my dad would, you know, have a— I think he'd have a coronary, but I don't think he'd be suicidal. How much debt are we talking?

Credit cards are like $127, and then student loans are 24 okay and do they owe money on the mortgage did you say uh they took a cash out refi back when the interest rates are low um so they owe 300 on their house good lord he knows that equity he knows that He signed for that. So how much is in her retirement? So in her 401K, it's about $740. Okay, and how much is in his stock? $270. Okay. All right, so they've got a million dollars that they can get to.

I assume they're over 59. My dad is. My mom's not. Okay. All right. So here's the thing. Your mom is trying to handle the budget by herself. She is incapable of doing that for some reason or another. Agreed?

Mm-hmm. I think your dad helping her and working with her and the two of them working as a team have a much better chance of creating a sustainable environment for the next decade than her hiding things. Agreed. I even tried to start showing my dad the EveryDollar budget app yesterday. Yeah. You're on the track. You already knew what to do, didn't you?

Okay. Good. Yeah. So your job now is cheerleader for your mom to come clean and then be talk to your dad um as forcefully as you can get away with and and is as profitable to everybody's going to combine everything and we've got a million dollars to pay off four hundred thousand dollars four hundred fifty thousand dollars worth of debt and we can move into retirement completely debt-free with 600 grand. And, you know, I don't know exactly when she's going to turn 59 or whatever.

You got to work that part through. But I think you're on track there. I think your advice from that guy was incomplete because he was only looking at the balance sheet. He wasn't looking at the relationship. And I think we've got some relationship work to do that's more important than the balance sheet. Agreed. Just to reframe this for you, Mackenzie, what you just did was you walked into a room and realized your mom is having a pretty serious affair.

And she looked at you and said, don't tell dad. Yeah, that's how it feels. And she put you in a very unfair position. And so anytime somebody relationally puts me in an unfair position, I am going to do the next right, honest thing. And that's say you have 24 hours to come clean or I'm going to do it for you. That's it. Yeah. I'm telling you how I would handle this.

If this happened in my house i would tell my mom you got you got 24 hours 48 hours i'll do it with you but we're gonna have this conversation or i'm gonna have this conversation because i can't be your secret bearer that's not my job yeah i'm not gonna be part of your deception that's right and your shame and your other dysfunction so i think dad coming alongside even though he's gonna have a bust a vessel and working together with everybody and applying his frugality to the budgeting process will keep another 127 in credit card from happening. This is the Ramsey Show. Thank you.