The Ramsey Show - App - Is There Ever a Time To Pause the Baby Steps? (Hour 2)

Episode Date: February 29, 2024

🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships, the actual kind. And I am here with Dr. John Deloney. I'm Jade Warshaw. We are hosting this hour of the show for you America and those of you listening abroad. You can give us a call. The number is 888-825-5225

and somebody very wonderful will pick up the phone and screen it and then we will talk to you. We'll chop it up. Whatever's going on with your life, your money, we'll help you sort it out. Let's go straight to the phone lines where we've got Lindsay from Toledo, Ohio. What's going on, Lindsay? Hi, Jane, John. Thank you so much for taking my call. You betcha. So I was just hoping to get your guys' insight on the fun little debate my husband and I are having. Yeah, me and Jill are fighting. What about? I love love it um actually so we're a baby of step four five and six and we feel really blessed to have found out that my husband's being included on his bonus um his company's like bonus payout this year he started halfway through the year so we weren't really expecting it um the debate is on what we should do with that money. How much is it?

So I got a bonus of two grand and then his is 10 after taxes. Nice. 12 Gs. Yeah. So we have some sinking funds for home improvements and, you know, kids' college giving and our mortgage. So I'm leaning a little bit toward putting a little bit larger of a chunk toward the mortgage, and he's citing a little bit more toward putting a lot more of a chunk toward home improvements. Okay. The home improvements, is this just for fun, or is it like, we got to get this done? It's for fun.

We want to do siding and garage doors are the big ones. Oh, me too. Can I just say me too? I need some siding in my garage door. I think it was built by a small chipmunk. It's time. That's funny. Good on you.

Good on you. So, okay. Other question is, are you guys currently, I mean, you're in baby steps four, five, and six. So it goes without saying that you're investing 15% into retirement. Without the bonus, are you still putting away a little bit for kids college every month? Are you still putting a little extra on the mortgage or have you not touched those categories yet?

Yeah. So with a little bit extra each month that like how we've been going is we're going to pay off our mortgage in 10 years. And we don't really, we put a little bit in the kids college, but we don't have like, that's the one thing we haven't set like an actual number that we're trying to hit um we just kind of throw a little bit in there each month um we have four kids so we do like 50 with each for each kid um okay and then yeah so the

quotes we got for our home improvements we're the number we're trying to hit is like 25 between 25 and 30 grand um we have five about five so far okay so my husband's leaning a little bit more toward like let's put a really big chunk and we could just get that out of the way um and i'm my husband thinks i he just jokes as i'm like trying to baby step to the mortgage well let me tell you okay you tell me what fun ruiner, Lindsay. You tell me what you think about this, because this is what me and my husband, Sam, do. You know, it sounds like you're taking care of business on the baby steps front with your normal, you know, month to month money. And so whenever extra money comes in, you know, I kind of put it under that framework of, OK, what can you do with money? You can give, save and spend it.

And so whenever there's extra money coming in, it's what is something that we're doing to give some of this money? What's something that we're doing to save some of it? And what's something we're doing to have fun and spend it? And honestly, all the categories you said fall under one of those categories. So to do home improvements, hey, that's a little spending money. That's fun. Like that's something fun that you can do. Kids college, that's you giving. Right. Because you're giving money for your kids education and it's a gift for them. And then the mortgage that's in way that's that's you saving money because it's a forced savings account that you know, 4,000 to each of these categories and call it a day. And that might be the way you solve it. But if you're one of these people who's like, I have to complete one of them, then it's like, then you just, you just decide, okay, is $12,000 enough to do all of the home improvements that we want to do? And then

it's just knocked off the list, you know, from now until whenever the next thing pops up, or, I mean, it's not enough to pay off the mortgage and it's not enough to cap off their 529s. So I kind of like the idea of either, I would either do the home improvement project and it's done and done, or I would just be like, all right, I'm splitting this equally three ways. Can I add one more thing to it? Go ahead. So Lindsay, often I'm like you, like whenever we had our mortgage, I kept wanting to baby step to it. And I'll never forget after being married for 20 years, my wife came to me and said, hey, could we get a headboard that's not off Craigslist that you spray painted in our backyard

three houses ago? And I was like, you know what? That's so me. Today's going to be your life. I'm a great husband, right? I'm the worst. So, but here's what I found myself falling into is I just had this idea that I wanted to pay it off faster.

And for my wife, that was a moving target because no matter how much extra we put on the mortgage a particular month, my particular finish line moved because I wasn't chasing a number, I was chasing a feeling. And so I like the idea what Jade said is, okay, we're gonna put it all in home improvements.

We need to get $5,000 more and we're gonna knock all these home improvements out. But here's the trade. The trade is instead of doing this in 10 years, I wanna take off one year of the mortgage. And that means we're gonna have to put this much more a month. Are you in on that? Do you see what I'm saying? And that way it's going to have to put this much more a month. Are you in

on that? You see what I'm saying? And that way it's not, I just want to pay it off faster versus, and that's going to hold you accountable to not being dragged around by your feelings, but it's also going to give him, your husband, a finish line. Okay, we can do this. And here's a way we can make this thing work mathematically and both of y'all can be at peace. You see what I'm saying? Yes, yes. That actually, that is perfect. The only bad part about that is I see the, like, that's the best way to go.

My husband's going to think he's winning this argument. You got to let that go, sister. That ego's going to bury you. Let it go. It's all in fun. It's all in fun. It's all in fun. I know, I know. Yeah, that's actually a really good idea because I do know he speaks kind of truth where I

sometimes do get a little bit fired up and passionate about, you know, focus on one target, but he is like, slow down. Well, I don't mind passionate about one target, but let's be very clear about that target is not just, I want to pay this off faster. All right. What does that mean? And how much is it going to take for us to get there? Yeah. I'm with that. I'm with that. I like it. Cause the fact of the matter is for some people like paying off debt, whether it's their actual debt or their mortgage or whatever it is, like they get energy from that. They feel like they're accomplishing something

and it feels great. And then there's another spouse that it feels totally draining. And it's like, how much more money are we gonna throw down this dark hole? You know, and it just feels like you're tossing money away. Even though with a mortgage, you are getting something in return.

For a lot of personality types, it does feel like it's just this dark hole that you're tossing, you know, $10,000 bills. You're just melting your joy away. Yeah. So it's so, so important when you get to those upper baby steps, four, five, and six to do really what John said, and just make sure that you're having those clear conversations and that you're not just bulldozing through, not to say that she's a bulldozer because she's not, but y'all, y'all understand what I mean. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, you guys. Health insurance costs are only moving one way, and that way isn't down. And if

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care of health care costs. CHM programs start as low as $98 a month. So learn more today and join at chministries.org slash budget. That's chministries.org slash budget. you're listening to the Ramsey show I am Jade Warshaw next to me is Dr. John Deloney we'll be taking your calls for the next hour or so hanging out with you guys if you want to talk with us give us a call the number is 888-825-5225. We'd be so happy to hear from you. Honestly, it's an honor to talk to folks on the phone, John.

I think it's really crazy that people call in, man, they trust us with things going on in their life, their money, their marriage, their relationships. And we're just two people, man.

We're just two people sitting here giving our opinions. So thanks for hanging out with us. Thanks for trusting us with that. And no matter where you consume the show, if you like it, if it's helped you, if it's done something for your life, your money, consider sharing it. Number one, like, subscribe it, but consider sharing it with the people around you. Not only will it help us, hopefully it helps them and more good content like this will continue to crop up wherever it is that they listen to podcasts, wherever it is that they listen and watch videos on YouTube. So that's really helpful for us. Hopefully it's really helpful for you and for the folks that you're sharing with as well. Thank you. Thank you again.

All right. Let's take some phone calls. We've got Christina who is in Omaha, Nebraska. How can we help Christina? Hi guys. Hi guys. Thanks for taking my call. Okay, so I have a question. We are extremely new to the Ramsey plan. Just kind of started following it in December. Welcome to the madhouse. Welcome to the jungle. We're glad to have you. So I have a question on how to line up what we've been doing,

because I think up to this point we've been doing our best, but it's not really lined up with the plan. So since December, we have established the $1,000 emergency fund, and we have another $4,000 in savings. We only have one credit card in which we owe $5,000 on. And I know I could pay that off, but I have a question about that. So I do have a son who is going to start college in August. And I'm trying to figure out how to do one, two, and three, and then still be able to pay for college. So he has gotten a lot of scholarships and financial aid. And right now, from what we know of, he's sitting at about $18,000 a year. And that's room, board, tuition, everything

because it's not here close by. That's what he's earned. Well, that's what he'll be paying, what we'll be paying. That's what you'll be paying. His $18,000. How much of that, you said scholarships and financial aid.

How much of that is student loans? No, that's what I'm trying to avoid. Okay, so after all the scholarships and everything it's 18 000 will be the all-in out of your pocket cost yes yes and so like over the nine months basically of the year that'd be two thousand dollars a month and that's where the four thousand dollars in things came from in january and february we kind of played it out to see if we could do two thousand dollars a month and we actually of played it out to see if we could do $2,000 a month. And we actually could a lot easier than we thought we could. And so I know that there's still a chance

he could get more scholarships and, um, we're definitely applying for them, but I'm worried that I'm kind of skipping step three. Yeah. You're broke. Yes. Y'all aren't safe. Yeah. Well, I mean, yeah. So like so like i mean like we have money in our retirement and we have we don't owe very much on our house and all that but like i said we're kind of scattered all over the board that's right what and what type of school is this is this a university state university uh it's it's actually a private university um but yes it is a four year degree so here's here's my take on this. And you can take it or leave it or take parts of it. Paying for college is a gift that is a privilege for us

to be able to give, right? And it's something that we can do out of the abundance of us handling our money correctly. And the way the baby steps are the way that they are is because there's certain things that are going to take place in your life that you can't stop. And you need to be prepared when those things take place. No matter what, God willing, at some point, you're going to retire and you're going to stop working and you won't be able to work anymore. And you're going to have to be able to make sure that your household is taken care of. And so that's why that is why we go through these baby steps starting at baby step one. And that's why baby step five is way further down the list because

it's not the priority that it can seem in the moment. And that's also why we teach all of these ways to go to college less expensive because it is expensive and everybody comes to us at different points in their journey. And so in your case, I love that you have baby step one done. I love that you're thinking about cash flowing this. I'd also love for you to be thinking about, okay, I've got $5,000 in credit card debt. I need to pay that off. I've got to save up three to six months of expenses. Like your family needs you to have three to six months of expenses. So I don't want you putting that off over the course of the next four years because of this $2,000 if there's a way that we can find cheaper education that still gets him where he wants to go. I'm always recommending that people

start with community college. It's so much less expensive. It gets those gen eds out of the way in a way more inexpensive way. And then you've got the private school thing added. That's adding an expense. So I would challenge you guys to look at this and say, is there an option that makes more sense with our financial situation? And then the third piece to that is, is there a way that your son can work to add to this? Because if he can pick up a thousand bucks a month,

that's amazing. That's actually like, I love the community college idea. Y'all aren't going to do that. I know you're not. I've worked with colleges for 20 years. Y'all aren't going to do that. He got in, he got the scholarship and that feels good. I do think it's very wise to consider,

hey son, here's our financial situation. We can do $1,000 a month over the course of one year. And you're going to have to come up with the rest. And if a contingent on us putting money on the table is you can't borrow it, which means you're going to have to earn some money. And what I'm telling you is the data says that he'll do better in school with some skin in the game.

That's right. And maybe you say after your freshman year, if you come home with straight A's or whatever metric y'all want to put on the table and you've paid this thing down, we might be in a place where we can increase and allow you to move into your major courses as you go to an internship or whatever the thing is. And so it might be a moving target, but it's sitting down and saying,

hey, we're all going to have some skin in the game. But as Jada said, you can only have skin in the game if you can afford it. And right now you have no cash reserves. Zero. Right. And he doesn't start school until August. Great. That's awesome.

And you've got time. You have time and he's got time. From now until August, how much would it, like this sounds like a stupid question, but I actually don't know this. How much is like a three to six month fund? It not a stupid question it's not stupid at all so when we talk about matter of fact a lot of people are going to get help off of that question when we talk about three to six months of an emergency fund we're truly talking about basic expenses that make your your household run so if you look at your budget with in all its glory right with all the bells and whistles and there's extra money there for you to get a haircut and get your nails done and to go to the movies and all these three to six months of expenses doesn't include all that stuff.

It's like, all right, it's the mortgage, it's groceries, it's keeping gas in the car, it's keeping the lights and utilities on. It's it's the basic stuff that if if the worst were to happen, like you get laid laid off it's what you would cut your budget down to to make things work and so three to six months of what you would consider your bare bones budget to make things work and run and tick that's what you need three to six months of that does that make sense so they're actually yeah so there actually is a chance from now until august that i could pay off the credit card and get three months, probably not six. There is. Three months saved up. There is. But I want you to realize that there's another baby step even after that, which is saving 15% of your income into retirement, which is so, so important for you. And we are actually doing that one. That's what I meant by we're all over

the place. And so so we actually do have that one in place. I gave one in four. Hey, listen, as somebody who spent my entire career working with college students and their families, please ask your child to participate in some shape, form, or fashion in their education, please. Yes. And I do plan on that. I don't necessarily want him to do it first semester. Why not? Because I'm worried about the transition. Don't be. In fact, one of the things about the transition is kids will go to a residence hall.

They will know nobody and they'll hold their phone and they'll stay connected to their old high school friends now and they never make the separation. If they go to school, they get plugged into their academics and then they go have a job. They have a thing that they have to go to, a purpose, a place to be in a built-in human community that they have to interact with. It's not a bad thing. It's actually a good thing. And he does work now. I know, but that wouldn't

be hard. But that needs to sit down and say, here's a dollar amount. And by the way, that $18,000, as Jade said, doesn't cover haircuts. He's going to want to go on a date. He's going to need new shoes. He's going to need new clothes. So it's more than just $18,000. There's living expenses on top of all this college charge. Yeah. It's so, so important. I'm glad that you're in a better financial situation than I thought. And you, it sounds like you do have the money to pay for this, but I completely agree with John, make him pay some piece of this. Skin in the game is absolutely necessary. This is The Ramsey Show. You are listening to The Ramsey Show. I'm your host for today, Jade Gorshaw.

Your other host for today is Dr. John Deloney, author of Building a Non-Anxious Life, host of the Dr. John Deloney show. Really, really cool. So, John, it is tax season and a lot of you... I'm done. You did it? I already got mine back and filed, man. They crushed it for me. That's awesome. Wait, so it's filed?

Did you get a return or no? I did. Yeah. I'm still figuring out all the commission stuff on book sales. I'm still figuring out how it works, but I did. Hey, right afterwards, I went and met with the CFO here and I contacted our tax person to adjust the withholding ratio because my return was silly. Yeah. But all I can say is, man, I've got a weird thing. I like to get them done and get like, I need to know what I need to know. Same. I send that stuff off lickety split to our mother-in-law who is an amazing bookkeeper, books by need. I'm just saying just a little something, something there. All right. Anyway,

you need to get yourself a Ramsey trusted pro though. Not my mother-in-law. All right. So here's the thing. A lot of you do have questions about taxes and we understand that I have questions. Taxes are confusing. And so to help you get a better handle on them, we're just going to take some of your questions and answer them out loud. These are questions from you guys, our listeners. One of the questions was this. It said, we normally have someone do our taxes, but our tax accountant retired. I think that we have a simple return. Should we try to do the filing ourselves with Ramsey SmartTax? Okay. So here's the thing. You could definitely use a software like Ramsey Smart Tax if you feel confident in filing your

own and that your situation is actually relatively simple. So here's some kind of guidelines to know if it is or not. We would recommend working with a tax pro if you have some sort of major life change, like, I don't know, you retired or you received an inheritance or you adopted a child, something like that. In that case, you probably would want to work with a professional for that year. Number two, if you own a business, a small business, there's a lot of little nuts and bolts in there that it would just superly be helpful to work with a tax pro. That's Sam and I's situation. We always work with a pro. All right. Number three, if you're just not confident about filing your taxes, if that's you, that's totally fine. Even if it's simple, if you're not confident, you should work with

a tax pro. And then finally, number four, if you just want to save yourself some time and stress, get yourself a tax pro. It's so worth it. So again, if you are confident about filing on your own, you can head to ramseysolutions.com slash tax. There you will find Ramsey Smart Tax. It's low upfront pricing. There's no hidden fees in it. Or you can connect with a Ramsey Trusted Tax Pro if you're not as confident. Again, both of those resources you can find at ramseysolutions.com slash tax. Love it. All right. Got that out of the way. Tax season makes people feel some type of way, John. Well, and I actually did both of those. I actually, you know, as a Ramsey employee,

Ramsey Taxes opened to us for free. And so I actually ran my own stuff and sent it to the accountant and said, I think this is where we're going to end up. Were you close? It almost bulls-eyed it. And so that software is pretty good. Now, I've got a super simple return. I'm a pretty lame, boring guy. But it was right on. It was right on.

If I think about filing my own taxes, I can feel my eye starting to twitch. It's already starting to twitch. I can't and I won't do it. All right, let's go to Colin who's in San Diego, California. Colin, what's going on in San Diego, man? Hi, guys. thank you so much for taking my call you bet how can we help um well first i wanted to say uh tax season actually makes me very excited as a tax uh pair so okay okay this is this is your super bowl it is yes um so i'll start with my question, then I'll give some context. So I'm curious what you guys would think about filing a Chapter 7 bankruptcy, given my age and current financial situation.

I know it's often, I know it I'm technically employed, but due to some mental health issues, I'm kind of like, I'm, I'm kind of waiting to hear back on whether or not I still have that job and then also searching for a new job. Um, and then also just because the, the way of some of this debt, uh, I have like, it has also has a toll on my mental health and i just find it like impossible to see the end goal um so i'm 24 my credit score is below 600 it's not great but and i know sometimes they say that that will a bankruptcy could help increase or sometimes it actually increases it rather than decreases it how much do you owe decreases it. How much do you owe, brother? Colin, how much do you owe?

It's not like an insane amount. It's about $34,000. Okay, $34,000. And tell me about your mental and emotional health challenges that make work hard. So at least right now, what I know is I'm pretty open about it, so I don't mind saying it on air. I have a major depressive disorder and social anxiety disorder,

and they've played impacts on my jobs over the past couple of years. How are you waking up every day and leaning into getting well? What does your wellness adventure look like right now? What interventions are you taking? So one thing that's really helped is I did go back to school, and I started a new career path, and that has actually helped. Being in the tax field has actually helped quite a lot. What are you doing right now?

Are you under the care of a licensed mental health professional or a doctor? Yes. Okay. Yes, two. Two, okay. So I'm assuming you're taking medication for major depressive disorder at least, right? Yes, correct. Are you taking some sort of cocktail? No, just a single one.

Just a single one, okay. When I see him next, I'm going to be talking about that, actually. Okay, so when you see your practitioner next, a couple of things I want you to discuss. Medication's fine. It's going to be a bridge to getting you from here to there. And with major depressive disorder, man, it's a whole tangled web of a mess, right? It's very difficult. And most people in your life have no idea how hard it is to just get out of bed on some days.

Fair? Yeah, and that's actually the attendance has kind of been too late and shifts has kind of been the issue. Here's the other side of it. It's the tiny little steps towards showing up, towards going for a walk, towards talking to a friend, even though your body is screaming at you,

saying that friend's not safe. Knowing that once your body experiences that friend is safe, then suddenly that the lights start to come on a little bit. And so when you sit down with your provider, I want you to ask in addition to medication, can we have three or four tasks that I'm going to begin to work on on my own? Because you're stuck in a loop right now. And the loop is it's hard to get up. It's hard to go do things. My body's always yelling and screaming at me to not move, not move because the world's not safe. And so you don't move and that reinforces your body's message to you. Your body's getting what it wants. Do you see what I'm saying? Yeah. And so the goal is with

the right counselor, the right exercise program the right medication what are we going to do so that we can head into those challenges you see what i'm saying absolutely please look at this as i'm working towards empowerment not looking towards someone to come save me. Yeah. You see what I'm saying? The difference? Absolutely. Okay.

Are you, have you ever been suicidal? Yes. Yes. Okay. Are you safe now? Yes. Yes. It was, it was, it was a while ago.

Okay. I've discussed with my professionals, so I'm not anymore. Well, hey, I want to applaud you because saying it out loud is hard, right? Yeah. Yeah. Now you're going towards the heart, right? You're choosing heart. You're leaning in towards discomfort. And on the back end is a guy. Now you got a new friend across the country that's cheering you on. You got two new friends, me and Jade, plus millions of people. Oh, thank God. Okay. Now, Jade can get into the numbers with you. I'm asking you as your new friend, please do not file bankruptcy over $30,000. Okay. Okay. Please don't do that. Yeah. And I'm asking you as your new friend to please not file because here's the thing you know you're knee-deep in your situation and you can't always see the forest for the trees and so you need external people to kind of look at your situation and go oh I see it for what it actually is and

John and I are looking at this and we're going oh no way in the world yeah do we file don't don't don't don't and I for you, the biggest workaround is what John said. You have to get to a situation and get to a level of health where you're able to work and so that you can get this paid off. Because I'm guessing, I don't know what kind of debt it is, but whatever it is, just a reasonable salary, you're out of this in a year and a half or two years. And so we're working towards empowerment, standing taller, getting that work in, and that's the path to freedom.

Hang on the line, I'm gonna send you both of my books. You're listening to The Ramsey Show. I am Jade Warshaw, one of your hosts today. You can call me a co-host because I have another host and his name is Dr. John Deloney. And we're taking your calls all hour long. So give us a call. The number is 888-825-5225.

And whatever it is that you're going through in your life, your money, we'd like to talk it through with you. So tell us what's going on and we'll help you out. We're going to go straight to the phone lines where we've got Jason from Orlando, Florida. What's going on, Jason? How can we help today? Hello, John and Jade. Thank you so much for taking my call today. So my name is Jason. I'm 24 years old and I'm from Orlando, Florida. I want to start off first by giving my question and then I'll wait and then go ahead and give the breakdown on the numbers. My question is,

how can I properly budget to pay off all my debt and then save for a future engagement rate? Ooh, love it. Okay. Yeah. Well, let's hear about the debt and then we can talk about what a budget might look like for this. Okay. Awesome. So I want to just first start off by saying that I already paid off in the last two months, $8,000 on my credit card debt. Okay, good. So right now I own, I have a card loan of $13,000. Okay. I have student loans of $15,000. Okay. And I have leftover credit card debt of $9,000, so totaling $37,000. Okay. I'm a recent graduate.

Oh, go ahead. Oh, I was just going to ask a little bit about the lady, the young lady that you want to propose to. How long have you guys been seeing each other? Oh, yeah. So we've been seeing each other for four years now. So I'm planning for next year to move out with her. We're moving together. I'm currently living with my parents. Is that before you propose or propose after moving out together.

That's something that I haven't completely decided on. Maybe you guys can help me with that too. It's been four years, man. What are you waiting on? Yeah, I'm not going to tell you to pay off your debt before you buy a ring. Okay. I think it's just a matter of you...

To pay for the ring first, right? I think you'll go down to the courthouse this weekend and get married. It's four years, dude. It's half a decade. What are you waiting on? That's fair. It's just, you know,

this total debt on credit cards to the loans and car loans is just a lot. Listen, it's nice to have help. It's nice to have a partner. That's true. That's true.

I was thinking about moving in together, you know, coming in debt-free at least in that sense. But what I don't want is to pay off my credit card and all my loans and then go in debt again by buying an engagement ring, you know, not having enough money and then buying and touching my credit card again. Yeah, but that's your choice. So I definitely don't want to do that.

You have to remember, all of this is on you and it's your choice. So I definitely don't want to do that. You have to remember, all of this is on you and it's your choice. Nothing's going to make you go into debt unless you decide, I'm just going to go into debt and buy this. And so since you called us, I'll tell you what my chain, what my timeline would be and what I would do. And if it doesn't jive with the way you are or what you believe, then you can take what you want and leave what you want. But if I were you, I'd say,

okay, I've got this debt. I've got $37,000 of debt. It's important to me that I pay it off, but I also have a little honey over here that I want to make sure that I'm proposing to her. So I'd probably see if there's a way that I can cash flow this ring very quickly while still paying a little off debt here or there it's not to say that you have to completely turn the faucet off on paying off your debt but you know make it a reasonable timeline so i'm proposing to her as quickly as possible to john's point and then i'm like i'm just gonna marry her like after that i'm gonna be like let's get married as soon as possible i'm not gonna do this year-long thing of i'm gonna move out and then

i'm gonna wait a year and then i'm gonna propose propose and then I'm going to wait five more years and then I'm going to marry her because before you know it, you guys are going to have gray hairs. So I just would make this happen as quickly as possible. It's not a caveat and paying off debt is not a precursor to marriage. It doesn't have to be. And I don't want you to think that I have to pay off all my debt going into this relationship first. I think it's something that you guys can tackle together. And at the end of the day, in many ways, it kind of brings you closer together when you work on something like this together.

I think. Now, Jason, I'm going to go negative for a second. You hang with me. Yep. I'm here. All right. Jade and I would not have jobs if everybody who had a plan, if it all worked out exactly as they lined their plan up. It's just not how life works. We only have jobs because

people have great ideas about stuff and it all goes sideways. So if you get engaged to this person and y'all move in and y'all start paying off debt together. And then God forbid y'all break up. You're trying to play house and do a practice marriage and something goes sideways and it's been five years and then six years and she says, forget this dude, I'm not waiting anymore. And y'all break up. The process of unwinding, well, who paid off what debt and what was mine, and it was part of my salary, and what went into the food, and who paid, is a nightmare. The reason we tell people to get married, besides the moral side of it, right, is because if there

is ever a fracture in the relationship, if the relationship ever breaks up, there is a legal path of separation out. Do you get what I'm saying? Yes. So you think you're saving yourself a bunch of heartache and I don't want to put the apple before the cart. You end up just playing, you end up getting a big old jumbled mess. And so following Jade's advice here is really, if you're my brother, if you were my son, if you were one of my close friends, I would give you the exact advice that Jade really if you're my brother if you were my son if you were one of my close friends i would give you the exact advice that jade just gave you simply because it clarifies and cleans up your life and it makes your path much more simple and it doesn't involve you waiting to

start your life yeah you're waiting to start your life this amazing thing called being married which is which is chaos and incredible it's so great and messy and fun and scary and all the good stuff. And Jade and I wouldn't trade it for the world, but you're just keeping it all on pause, right? Right. I'm going to call her your fiance. Does she have debt? She only has, or actually, yeah, she does have that. She has $1,000 in credit card loans and she has an expensive car. She has, I think, $20,000 right now. Okay. In a car, but that's about it.

Yeah, so I think that, again, you are downloading EveryDollar if you don't yet have it. If you want the premium version, you can do everydollar.com slash jadeade and i'll give you a promo code so you can have premium for a couple of months free and you're setting up your budget in a way that is allowing you to make headway paying off this debt because paying off debt's a great thing pay off as much as you can um but it's also setting aside some money so you can spend you know a percentage of your of your income on a ring maybe one month's income on a ring. Right. And then as soon as you give her that ring, it's like, Hey, how quickly can we get married? I love your butt. And I want to get married instantly. And then you do that. And

that's, that's it. I have $2,200 left over after my monthly expenses. How much would you say, like from both those $2,200 should go into paying that and then the other saving into the engagement ring? So you have $2,200, that's your income or is that margin? No, no. So my monthly take home pay is $4,000, but my monthly expenses are $1,800. So leftover is $2,200. Okay, so that's the margin. thousand dollars yeah but my monthly expenses are eighteen hundred so left over is twenty two hundred okay so that's the margin and you're saying how much of that should go towards the

debt and how much should go towards the ring correct i mean if you wanted to do if you're trying to buy a four thousand dollar ring then split it in half and say i'm going to use half of this to pay for the debt i'm going to use half of this to go towards the ring and in four months you're proposing and four months also buys you time to get your head around the fact that, like, man, I'm about to be a married man. And I got to move out from my mommy's house. Yeah. And get my own place.

Right? Well, yep. We're toggling up, man. This is grow-up time. How old are you? You said 24? 24. 24. Game on, dude. Game on. We're going to be all grow up time. How old are you? You said 24? 24. 24.

Game on, dude. Game on. We're going to be all growed up. And we're going to follow the great Beyonce's advice. If you like her, you better put a ring on it.

That's right. That's good. John, I'm proud of you. Thank you. Queen B. That's good. I never thought I'd see the day. Here we are.

Guys, we're always going to tell you to get married, by the way. If you're in a situation where you have been dating someone for like five six seven eight nine ten years we're almost always going to tell you to piss or get off the pot either get married or call it that's right call it that's right and don't let debt keep you from pushing start on very valuable and meaningful relationships in your life hey thanks for hanging out with us this hour. I'm Jade Warshaw.

He's John Deloney. And this is The Ramsey Show. We'll see you next time.