The Ramsey Show - App - Is Third-Party Financing a Good Idea? (Hour 2)

Episode Date: February 13, 2019

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions Broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studio, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I am Dave Ramsey, your host. This is your show. Thank you for joining us. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Nathan is starting off this hour in Fort Worth, Texas. Hi, Nathan. How are you?

I'm doing quite well, sir. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Well, my question is a little back story. Growing up, I didn't really get a lot of education. My greatest teaching in finance was how to write a check, and I think I did something in an economics class in high school, but I don't remember that. So my whole life I've had great ideas for businesses and how to make money, but I don't know where to go from there. I just have ideas.

I've got like 40 ideas I've written down already and no way to start the business. I don't know what to do. Okay. And I haven't been listening to your show very long. But from, I mean, the only thing I can think of is either a loan, which you greatly discourage loans, or to find an investor. And I don't even know how to do that. I'm in a field nowhere to go. So how old are you?

I'm 28 years old. Okay. What do you do for a living? Actually, I'm trying to get off disability. I'm working at a grocery store right now, and it's a big milestone for me. I saved up my own money and bought my first vehicle, no payments, nothing, and it actually only paid $1,500 for a Harley-Davidson Sportster. Wow, okay.

And what's the nature of your disability, Nathan? It's mental. Okay. I was's the nature of your disability, Nathan? It's mental. Okay. I was diagnosed with bipolar. I'm pretty sure there's many others throughout school. They've said I've had a learning disability. Okay. And the biggest issue I've noticed with my education when it comes to school, though, was the no-child-left-behind thing. The teacher didn't even try to help me.

They just did my work. Yeah. Okay. Well, all right. And that left you behind then all right well i think that i think the thing is this that what i would say is in your situation um whatever idea you want to do uh i would start it small and i would keep it simple and by the way way, if you had a Ph.D. and you were a genius, I would tell you the same thing. Okay? Okay. Start it small and keep it simple. And it can be something very, very, very simple.

Let me give you an example, okay? I'm not saying you would do this, but let's just talk about an example. An example would be I'm going to cut grass, and I'm going to own a lawn care business. That's my business idea. Okay? Okay. Well, what would you do? You would buy an inexpensive used lawnmower for cash,

and you would talk some people into letting them cut their grass for you and give you money. Right? And you'd have to come up with a price and the way you would do that would be you would talk to other people in the business and what are they charging to cut grass you talk to customers and say what are you paying now and you set your price a little bit lower because you're new and you would get your foot in the door and get you some customers and then as you started making money you could buy more lawn equipment with that money and you wouldn't need a loan that's a start small simple idea now i don't know what some of your ideas are but i would just

equate them i would say let's look at them in through the lens of that lawn care idea what is something we can start really small and doesn't cost a lot of money to get going, and it's not a super complicated business? Because super complicated businesses have a tendency to fail before they even start. You can take a simple idea and over time complicate it after you're making some money with it. An example here is this. I started this business doing one-on-one financial counseling. I knew how to sit down with people and help them with their money, and I charged them

a fee, a counseling fee, for meeting with me. Very simple. And then when I got so many of those that all my days were full of counseling fees, then I raised my prices. And then when I still was full, then I hired another person to do counseling. And now I've got a bunch of people on my team that do counseling, and we've trained coaches or counselors all over the nation to do this. And they pay us a fee to learn how to do

that um and so we just again we started with a very simple idea just sitting down helping people do a budget helping them not file bankruptcy and uh and but we've we've complicated it over the years we do it on the radio now we sell ads we've got books we've got classes we've got you know all these digital things so over the years we complicated this simple idea but we did that as we made money and it started with no money on a car table in my living room and we've never borrowed money so that's how i would suggest you begin to take one of your best ideas that you're the most excited about but that you can start very simple and very small with cash.

Thomas is in Montgomery, Alabama. Hey, Thomas, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Thanks, Dave. I hope you're doing well today. I am, sir. How can I help? Well, I guess my call is more so to get some guidance. I had a parent that passed away about nine years ago and was left with a house and some cash after the attorneys got through with it. And the first thing I did was pay my house off.

And then I had probably about $50,000, $60,000 left. And the market was down at that time, so I really didn't want to sell her property. So I had some great renters that moved in and kept them up until this past summer. And I had talked to one of my friends that listens to your show, and I had a HELOC on my house during that time to help pay for taxes and insurance because you get double taxed on rental property, you know, so on and so forth. And so I used that for the past 10 years, and it grew to probably about $70,000 or $80,000. And so I...

You weren't collecting rent? Do what? Yeah, I was collecting rent at the same time. And you weren't using that to pay the bills associated with the house? With my house or their house? I mean, why'd you run up debt if you're collecting rent on a paid for house and all you had to pay was a property taxes and insurance and he ran up a heloc to pay those why didn't you use the rent money to pay the bills well i was using it to i guess live i was traveling a lot and used the capital to pay for child support and groceries and so on

and so forth just over the past nine years. And so I ran the HELOC up and then the summer I talked to my friend and he said, do you think Dave Ramsey would say if you had two houses and you still had a HELOC, he'd tell you to probably pay the HELOC off. So what I did, I sold the property, paid everything down, and I've got some cash in the bank. And I want to know, I guess moving forward, how do I, I guess what should I do? I've got about $30,000 left. Okay. Well, we want to be 100% debt-free, have your emergency fund of three to six months of expenses, and then start investing

in good growth stock mutual funds in your Roth IRAs. And so wherever that money is used up, down through there on that, and then you need to get on a budget because you don't have a house to sell again next time you run up a debt so that you don't go back into debt again just to live, which is what you were doing before. So hold on. I'll send you a copy of the book, The Total Money Makeover, to help you out. You know what I've learned after talking to so many people who have been victims of

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Haniqua is with us in Tulsa. Hi, Haniqua. How are you? Hi, Dave. I'm doing good. How about yourself? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Hey, so currently I am in school on track to get my bachelor's degree in Christian studies, and I do plan on also getting my master's degree in divinity. My goal is to cash flow a church with zero loans. I have about three and a half years until I get my master's. Currently, I am saving my tithes each paycheck, each pay period, and I am sending it directly through auto pay into a separate savings account for my income. And so I have a two-part question. The first question is, should I be paying those tithes to a local church,

or should I continue to save them? And if I should continue to save them, should I be putting them in investments so they can grow to be able to purchase a church and fund all the things that are necessary to have inside the church? Gotcha. So have you pastored before? I have a little bit. I've been in ministry since I was 15, so I've worked with different pastors and things like that. I just haven't been, I haven't felt led to co-pastor church. I've been offered it like three times, but I just haven't felt led to do it because... How old are you? I'm 28.

You're 28? Yes. Okay. And are you attending a local church now? So I just recently moved from Dallas, Texas to back to Tulsa. I'm born in Tulsa, but I just recently moved back due to the death of my father. So I have not joined a church since I've been back. Why not?

Honestly, I thought that when I first came that I would start a church then, but honestly I wasn't prepared to do it initially. So it is my plan to join a church. I just haven't found one that I've been wanting to join at this time. So that is my plan, though. Okay. Well, when you get ready to do your church plant, I would just at that point form your 501c3, and at that point I would tithe into that.

Until then, I would tithe at the church you're attending. There's not a big argument here. I mean, you can do whatever you want to do. God's not sitting up there wringing his hands because of where your tithe is going, right? Any more than he is on where mine's going, okay? It's just he's God. He doesn't need your money. The principle, though, is to have a steady giving flow,

and the principle is that you're doing that with your local church. Since you are not the local church yet then um i i would tie where you are attending and i'm always going to encourage as you would church regular church attendance for a christian um it's part of a the the process that we go through as worship and teaching and so forth now um, I don't, and I would encourage you, and I've worked with a whole bunch of church plants over the years, hundreds, in terms of interacted with them, and I know a lot of pastors that have planted things.

We've had three different churches plant using our conference center here on the weekends. The third one is in there now and uh so uh that we donate to them so i in other words i've been on this truck ride been on this train ride before so i would tell you don't save up and buy a building when you're starting i would just find a meeting place and begin your your plant and begin to gather your core group. And as you probably already know, it often starts as a Bible study in someone's living room.

Right. And then when we get enough, we can't fit in the living room. We go to the local school and rent the cafeteria on the weekends or the local theater and whatever, that kind of a thing. And we rent something and get the church growing and get the attendance up, thereby getting the budget up, and then you put yourself in a position with that budget that you didn't have to personally save up and buy and own a building, but instead the church that you're starting does that,

which is the proper way to do it from a governance standpoint anyway. So, no, I would not save your current tithe to buy a building for those reasons. And, you know, you can do whatever you want. I don't think God's going to be mad at you or me, whichever one he does here, because both involve giving, both involve serving his kingdom. There's not a, you know, he's not, you know, trying to find some little narrow interpretation of something up there by which he blesses you. None of that. But I just

think it's always a good idea to just kind of get in a good rhythm of things and be following the principles that are laid out there, which the principles are local church attendance, regular giving where you attend. And when you start your own thing, then that's where you attend. And you've got a 501c3 at that point. You don't need the IRS to anoint a church, but you have the benefit of it being tax deductible for the gifts that you give to that 501 and that other people do as well. And of course, 501s are required to have a board and so forth. So you'll have your board of elders or deacons or however you set up your governance and your situation.

So that's how I would do it. And that's an interesting question. Thanks for the call. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Nathan is in Atlanta. Hi, Nathan. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Thank you so much

for taking my call. I really appreciate it. My pleasure. How can I help? So, quick scenario of where we are. My wife and I just finished up Baby Step 2 middle of December. And so we have our

we've got $10,000 in an emergency fund that starts three months. And we've got probably about $3,000 in savings so far. For the past year and a half or so, we've actually been renting from my father-in-law, who owns the condo we live in,

free and clear. And apparently for the past six months or so he's been considering selling and he let us know last week that he was thinking about that um so obviously we aren't ready yet to put down 20 percent uh you're not ready to put down anything you're still in debt right well no we're not in debt put down anything. You're still in debt, right? Well, no, we're not in debt. We're 100% debt free. Oh, I missed that. I'm sorry.

Okay. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Yeah, so we don't owe anybody anything, but we're still renting from my father-in-law, and it's a good renting relationship. We've had no issues or anything like that. But he said he would give us kind of priority on the property interest. And he says he's in no rush, but it still kind of feels like he's kind of thinking hard about wanting to get out from...

Okay, so you're out of debt, and do you have your emergency fund in place? We've got three months, so we've got $10,000. And what is your household income? We're at about $100,000 a year between the two of us. Well, if you can save up a down payment and you're ready to buy a property, you don't have to necessarily have 20% down, but if you

can save up a down payment and you're ready to buy a property by the time he's actually ready to sell and you want that condo, I've got a feeling, though, that you might not pick that condo if it wasn't already that you were living there and it wasn't in the family. We have actually really enjoyed living there, so we actually would be very interested in staying there.

Okay, good. What do you think of, so I'm talking to Churchill Mortgage and another mortgage company as well. Good. What do you think of seller financing? I would not do that. I would not do that. I would not do that with my father-in-law.

You do not want to have a long-term situation where you're paying him payments. The borrower is slave to the lender, and Thanksgiving dinner will taste different. No, I definitely would not do that. Now, if it were an independent third-party seller, there's nothing wrong with seller financing at that point, as long as the terms are competitive, the interest rates are competitive, and so forth. But definitely would not do that with my father-in-law. New, not in a million years. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Why in the world would you trust some random guy in a cube when getting your mortgage?

Do you really think he cares about your long-term money goals? Well, he doesn't. Those companies care about getting you into whatever home loan program they're pushing that week. When it comes to ordering a cheeseburger, the meal deal works fine. But let's get real, people. We're talking about the largest investment you'll probably ever make. So don't be naive and trust an order taker who pressures you into a prepackaged loan. My friends at Churchill Mortgage have been helping my listeners for over 25 years.

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Equal housing lender. 761 Old Hickory Boulevard. Redwood, Tennessee 37027. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions, Brian and Kelly are with us. Hey, guys, how are you? Good, how are you? Better than I deserve. Welcome. Where do you live? Dakota. Go ahead. Dakota, Dune, South Dakota. Okay, what's that near? The river of Nebraska,

South Dakota, and Iowa, right there. Oh, okay. By Sioux City. Not far from Sioux City. Okay, cool. Well, welcome. Good to have you guys. And here to, all the way from there to do a debt-free screen. Yes. How much have you paid off? $50,440. Love it. And how long did that take? Ten and a half months. Wow. And your range of income during that time? Range from $97,000 to $111,000. Very good. Okay. Good. Good for you. What kind of debt was the 50 000 um 20 398 was credit cards 28 225 was car loans and 1815 is medical okay three basic loans you kind of were normal and uh you just decided to knock it out tell me what happened 10 and a half months ago they got you on this train. Go ahead. We started with a book that my sister gave me that you just signed, and we kind of half did it for a year and a half.

And then we got to a point where our money wasn't even stretching to pay off the minimums and kind of just had enough. She was working overtime, and she was trying to work overtime just to pay the bills. And we both were kind of stressing out a lot about it. And then I finally said, actually, our church, Freedom Church, offered Financial Peace University. And we started this about, when we read your book, it was probably three or four years ago. And like she said, we did it-ish,

but we weren't all on the same page. And so when we took Financial Peace University, we got all on the same page. Oh, okay. And so we basically did a lot of our budget together. We never did that up until then, up until Financial Peace. So Financial Peace made you actually do what the book said. Yes.

Yeah, that makes sense. Okay. Because you're in the class and you've got a small group discussion afterwards. And we're encouraging you, holding you accountable, and all that stuff, right? Okay. Very good. That's good. Yes.

That's very good. How long have you two been married? Seven years. Okay. Have you ever been debt-free? No. Never? Never.

Not even close. How does it feel? Fantastic. It was very freeing. $50,000 in 10 and a half months. I mean, y'all got after it. When you did it, you went game on. Yes, we did.

That's fun. Yes. Very cool. So what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is? That's an impressive number. Being on the same page. I think going over a budget and making sure that, I remember in the video when you said with your spouse to come to the table and do your budget,

and then you slide it over to her and you say, shut up. That's exactly what we did. And we struggled. It took us probably 90 days to get through the budget. And also, I think what helped us out a lot is we had an end to where we would, with all the money that we did a spreadsheet about. We had an ending point. We had an ending point. You could see the end.

Yes. Yeah, and that makes you run harder. Right. I like it. Did you keep the car or sell it? We kept them both. Okay. Yeah, kept them both.

And then our son had one as an accident. So that one got totaled. So we took that money and put it toward the debt. Perfect. Okay. Well, that'd keep him walking. He's safer. Exactly.

Well, very fun, you guys. Congratulations. So you're in the Financial Peace University class. Other than the two of you, who were your biggest cheerleaders? We really didn't tell a lot of people. We just kind of mentioned it. i think her brother was pretty good and i actually had a co-worker um at work that i would would tell her what was going on and she would just say congratulations you're really you're really moving you know and so yeah we had several friends that would say yeah and you had

the sister that gave you the book, right? Right. Yeah. Off in the distance. Yeah. And finally they're doing it. Yeah. Exactly.

Exactly. Very good. Well, congratulations, you two. Very, very well done. We're proud of you. We've got a copy of Chris Hogan's book for you, number one bestseller, Everyday Millionaires, because that's your next chapter. Now to move on and start investing and become

everyday millionaires that's your where you're headed from here definitely so very very well done well congratulations thank you brian and kelly sioux city iowa area fifty thousand four hundred and forty dollars paid off in ten and a half months making 97 to 111. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. 3, 2, 1. We're debt-free! We're debt-free! Woo-hoo! Love it!

That is absolutely awesome. Very, very well done. Very well done. Open phones at 888-825-5225. You jump in. We'll talk about your life and your money. Now, over the next two weeks, there is a bunch of live events occurring and a lot of streaming around it as well. So here's what's up tomorrow night valentine's day is our first money and marriage

valentine's day event with rachel cruz and les parrot they're going to be teaching about how to effectively communicate with your spouse not only about money but marriage all together that is going to be here in nashville and if still want tickets, there's a few left. It's a great Valentine's Day date night. And if you're not coming to Nashville, which you should, it's a wonderful city to visit. But if you're not, then, hey, sit down and do it as a live stream. And you can hook up at DaveRamsey.com or RachelCruz.com and get the Money in Marriage live stream tomorrow night. Now, next week on February the 19th, during the day, Christy Wright, Ken Coleman, and I will be live streaming

our Grand Rapids Entree Leadership One Day event. Those of you that are running businesses and you want to talk about hiring and firing, and you want to talk about building loyalty and unity inside your company, you want to talk about how to do interviewing properly, how to motivate your team, and how to hire motivated people. We're going to be covering the whole idea of getting the right kind of team built all day on next February the 19th, next week. And so all day long from Grand Rapids. And if you're in the Grand Rapids area and you don't yet have your tickets, that's next Tuesday. You can get tickets to it still.

It is not sold out. And I think it will be, but it hasn't yet. And, of course, the streaming doesn't sell out. So you can get it streamed. You and your team sit down and watch this together. Some of you and your management team, your leadership team, sit down and watch this together. The next night, on February the the 20th wednesday night that's one week from today i will be in grand rapids still and anthony o'neill and i will be doing

the smart money event there in grand rapids and it is not yet sold out there's about 150 200 tickets left so those of you in the grand rapids market, you can still get your tickets, and we would love to have you at either the Entree Leadership one day or the Smart Money event the next night or both. Hey, there you go. Yeah, you could just really learn a lot about business, leadership, and then the next night learn about money. The Smart Money event with Anthony O'Neill and I, we're going to walk you through the baby steps.

We're going to walk you out of debt, into into wealth and into a position to be outrageously generous it changes everything when you do that yeah and that event is also being streamed so a streaming money and marriage event thursday night tomorrow night valentine's, a streamed Entree Leadership One Day event from Grand Rapids, Michigan, on February the 19th, next Tuesday. Then next Wednesday night, one week from tonight, we are doing the Smart Money event from Grand Rapids. Tickets are available in person in Nashville or Grand Rapids for those three events, and streaming tickets are available for all three of them as well so you get to watch it check it out and just go to DaveRamsey.com and get your tickets to one of those opportunities or

all of them it's some really good content and by the way if you've never seen any of our speakers teach they're always funny and fun and get in your face and teach you something and you go away thinking you can win because you can win. It's that simple. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. We'll see you next time. Zach is in College Station. Hey, Zach. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show.

Hi, Dave. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. What's up? So I'm a master's student. Hopefully we'll be graduating in August and should be debt-free as long as nothing surprising comes up. And so I'm working on baby step three. And after listening to you on the show for the past two years, I'm, I guess, preparing for step four and five and six.

Great. And looking for advice on how to get information about IRAs and 401Ks and stuff like that. Good for you. What's your master's in? Wildlife and fishery science. Good deal. Good deal.

You've got a job lined up. Do you know what you're going to do? Kind of. I don't know exactly what i want to do yet i kind of want to potentially go back and maybe get a degree in computer science okay uh well if you're gonna do that then you don't need to start investing you're going to pay for that degree yes sir so i was gonna take some time off to try to figure it out okay but you would go you're not gonna go you've got a to figure it out. Okay, but you're not going to go.

You've got a master's in wildlife and fishery, and you're not going to go into that field. I want to, but some of the research, I want to go kind of into research. So looking at the advances in technology that aren't being used in the wildlife field is kind of what I'm interested in. Okay. Well, when you start your career and you start working is when you would start investing. And so if that's not August, then when you would graduate from whatever else you're going to study is when it would be, and you're going to work your way through and pay cash. But I would not start investing while you're in school. So once you've established your career and you know where you're going,

then I would start investing. And when you get ready to do that, I would sit down with a Smart Vestor Pro. Just click Smart Vestor at DaveRamsey.com, sit down with them, and they'll be able to help you pick out some mutual funds and start your Roth IRAs and so forth at that point. Jeanette is with us in Los Angeles. Hi, Jeanette. How are you? Hi, I'm good. And yourself?

Better than I deserve. What's up? So my husband and I just started going through FPU. It's about our third week. Wow. And we are on baby step number two. Good. Yeah, we're so excited. We're kind of doing Dave Ramsey-ish, It's about our third week and we are on baby step number two. Good. Yeah.

We're so excited. We're like, we were kind of doing Dave Ramsey ish. And then we're like, okay, this is going to be our push and our momentum. So it kind of helps keep us accountable. Yeah. So it's been great. So thank you so much for doing this and doing what you do because it's been awesome. So we have a, we don't have little tiny debts.

About a year ago, we got a HELOC, and we rolled it into one big, large sum. So it's $75,000. Our yearly income is about $85,000. And my husband heard we thought we were working towards that right now, knocking that out. And my husband heard a caller call you and ask you about the HELOC, and you were mentioning moving it into Baby Step 6. Yes, if it's more than half your annual income, that's what we recommend. And this one is.

It's a huge debt. So what is your interest rate on your first mortgage? It's about a 4.5. And what's the loan amount on the first mortgage? $208,000 Actually, we bought our house at a great time So right now it's worth almost $400,000 Okay

I probably would just refinance and roll them both into a 15-year fixed Oh, okay And just get rid of that heat lock and roll it into a standard 15 year fixed and then that becomes the whole thing becomes baby step six and it's real clean the problem with this massive he lock is that the interest rates are volatile and the terms are not good and so it's a hard loan to keep around for a long period of time and so with your income versus the size of that thing, you're not going to knock it out very fast.

So I would just roll it in and let's do a refinance and put them all together. You can get an interest rate on the first that's very similar to what you have now or possibly a little lower, and you should be able to get an interest rate on the HELOC that beats the crud out of that. I mean, on the first mortgage, it beats the crud out of the HELOC. And so that's how I would do it. And let's roll them together, put it on a 15-year fixed, and then on your baby step six, as you get to it,

pay it off as fast as you can. If that is your only debt, other than your first mortgage, then you are on baby step three when you start that. It moves you right up. Jordan is with us in Dallas, Texas. Hi, Jordan. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave.

How's it going? Better than I deserve. What's up? Hey, so I recently just started listening to your show and what you've been talking about with car payments and stuff like that. So I currently owe about $6,000 left on my car, 2014 Toyota Corolla. Problem is I'm currently staying with my mom, which is not the best situation, and my car payment and auto insurance, which I have to pay full coverage for,

is really consuming a lot of my paycheck to where if I really went out on my own, I'd be mostly living paycheck to paycheck, and I don't think that's an ideal situation. So I wanted to know whether it'd be a good idea to kind of sell and move down to something lower or kind of just work hard throughout, at least by the end of the year, I should have my car paid off. $6,000 is what you owe on it? Yeah. And what's it worth?

So I'm not 100 100 sure about that um i initially got it for 15 000 um got minor cosmetic damage on the interior previous previous owner with smokers so now you have no idea what it's worth yeah not necessarily All right. You think it's worth more than six? Definitely. Okay. All right. And what do you make a year? So I make about $28,000 a year.

Okay. And how old are you? 21. Okay. And what are you doing for a living? So I'm a lab technician. Okay. All right. And you have opportunity for overtime?

Well, give or take. They're trying to cut back on it. Sometimes we have it, sometimes we don't. Okay. Have you thought about taking a second job? I have. Okay. Because I don't want to wait a year to pay off $6,000. If you're living at home making $28,000, you should pay off $6,000 in about three months.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And then once you're clear of that, then you've got the ability to rent an inexpensive place. And the other thing is I don't think you're doing a budget with the money you have coming in. It's just disappearing. And so your take-home pay, you know, basically you've got no overhead to live because you're living at home right now. And so I think you get the car paid off and you move out, you know, sometime by fall. And that may mean working an extra job or taking some OT,

but it definitely means getting the EveryDollar app out and getting on a budget and really making every single dollar come in behave. There's no time for party in here. This is we're trying to achieve some financial goals. And if you're just blowing money on the weekends like crazy and going through money like water and you have no idea where it went, I can't help you in that situation. You're going to have to tighten the screws down, turn the heat up,

get this thing going, and you're ready to do to tighten the screws down, turn the heat up, get this thing going. And you're ready to do that. I think that's why you called me. So that's what I would do. Jenny is going to be up next hour with us. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Thanks for hanging out with us, America. We're glad you're here. Our

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