The Ramsey Show - App - Is This Financial Infidelity? (Hour 2)

Episode Date: October 20, 2023

🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it is The Ramsey Show, where we help you build work, wealth, do work that you love, and create actual amazing relationships. I'm your host, Jade Warshaw. I'm joined by George Camel. And we're taking calls all afternoon about your life, about your money, your budget, how to make more money, get more income coming in, pay off your debt. This is what we're talking about. So give us a call. The number is 888-825-5225. We're going to jump in directly to the phone lines.

We've got Tristan in Dallas, Texas. What's going on, Tristan? Jay, George, how are y'all doing? We're doing great. How are you? I was the wisest redneck I know says better than I deserve. I'm glad Dave's not here to hear that. You might take wisest redneck. That's nice. Yeah. Hey, I'm a descendant of many a redneck, so I'm right there. There you go. There you go.

I love it. How can we help today? Yeah, so I'm in Baby Step 2 right now. I've got about $40,000 worth of debt that's mostly student loans. Shoot. Yeah, then I've got a car loan that I was recently driving around a brand new car, but I listened to Dave and sold that and got a cheaper car for the time being that I just owe about five grand on now.

Okay, great. And so the only credit card that I have is one credit card that I really discovered about a year ago on Father's Day when my mom kind of unexpectedly passed away. And yeah, and when me and my siblings were helping my dad go through everything and kind of try to get him sorted out because we knew our mom handled most of the finances, we actually had discovered that she had opened up, I think it was 12 credit cards in his name and 11 in my name. Oh, my goodness. 11 cards in your name?

Hey, I'm sorry. That's tough. I mean, it's tough enough you lost your mom and then to discover a secret like that. That's painful. Yeah. It was rough for a little while, but thankfully I've got a, or at the time I had a wonderful girlfriend who helped me get through it, and now she's my fiance. Okay. So we're going to get married soon.

But my main question is that 10 of the cards, I showed them some information, reported a claim to them saying that these are fraudulent, and they were actually really helpful, immediately closed them out, reported them as fraudulent. Okay. were actually really helpful, immediately closed them out, reported them as fraudulent. And then there's just one card that initially told me that, oh, yeah, we're going to close this out in about a week. And then I found out a few months later that they had, in fact, not closed the card out, and they had been charging me late fees. Did you get it in writing that they were going to close it? Unfortunately, no. It was all over the phone. Yeah. And basically, we've been going back and forth for about a year.

And it turns out the thing that they are hanging on right now to keep it open is that when I was 18, my mom had bought me a plane ticket to go visit my older brother in California as like an early birthday present. Okay. And she apparently had done that on that credit card. So there was a plane ticket in my name. So like, hey, this isn't fraud. What's the balance on it? What's the balance on the card? It was about $1,800, but after the late fees, now it's like $2,200.

And so part of me is just kind of frustrated and just kind of wants to be like, okay, let me maybe just throw this in the debt snowball. But the other part of me is just like, heck nabbit, I don't want to let this freaking credit card company win. What's your income? This year, it's going to be $91. Okay. If I'm you, this has been a year of headache and hassle. You lost your mom. This is not what you want consuming your mental space. Yeah. You know what I mean? And it's like, if I don't want to overstep, but the longer that you have to deal with this, I feel like it has the ability to kind

of infiltrate what you're feeling about your mom even like she left me with this problem and now I mean uh and it's just I feel like that has that can be a really tangled web and you can end up feeling like some bitterness or like some anger towards her when really all you want to do is just grieve your loss yeah and I definitely felt that for the for about the first six months after she passed and yeah I went to went to therapy for it, and so I really don't, yeah, that part I'm not really holding onto anymore because she did what she did. In her mind, she thought she was doing

what was the best for us and us other kids, but yeah, so that I'm not too worried about. I'm just like, yeah. I'm still going to pay it. George, what would you do? I would call and say, listen, I'm done with this. Here's what I'm asking you to do. Just cut the late fees.

Cut this $400 off. I'm happy to pay the original balance, but we've been fighting this thing. I didn't even know about this card, and so I'll work with you on this, but I'm paying my $1,800, and that's it. And get that in writing and say, hey, I'm closing the card after that. So that's what I would fight for, but I wouldn't fight to try to get it to zero over the next 10 years, like Jade said, and just, it's too many brain calories over too small of an amount of money. Yeah. I agree with that. I second that notion, George. That's a good one.

So sorry, Tristan. I appreciate the call, Tristan, but that is tough. Man. You know, I hear about this all the time, And this is not what happened in Tristan's situation. But for moms and dads listening, it is fraud if you open up credit cards in the names of your children and say that it's you. That's fraud. And not only that, you have the ability to really jack their credit.

I know people personally who this has been done to them and then they hit 18 and they get into the world and they're 21 and 23 and they're like, why is my credit already bad? What's happened to me? And they find out it's because their parents have opened up cards in their name. You messed with your kid's financial life. And the other trend I'm seeing, Jade, I'm seeing all these videos on Instagram and TikTok. There's all this advice saying, hey, add your kid as an authorized user on your card, even if they're three years old. When they're 18, they're gonna have amazing credit

and they're gonna be so grateful. And here's what happens. The parents blow up their kid's credit. Yeah. By accident. Yes. And then screw up their kid's financial life before they're even an adult.

It's so unfair. It's so unfair. You've gotta let your kids decide who they wanna be financially. You don't just set them out there and just assume what because what if they follow the ramsey way and they don't want to have anything to do with credit what in credit cards what i could only hope i could only dream that's the case george that's what we're hoping for but um you've got to be careful and then there's another teaching in this george about um if you are a monitoring your own credit and making

sure you see all the accounts on there because this guy is talking about he said there were 10 accounts 11 in his dad's name and then another 11 accounts in his name oh yeah this is the importance we are not for the credit score but we are for pulling your credit report once a year you can do this on annualcreditreport.com. We have no affiliation. This is just the authorized federal website to do this for free. And that will show you every single trade line credit account you have open, every single student loan, everything. It's going to lay it all out to give you a picture. And that's how I found out that fraud had happened to me. Yeah. There was an AT&T account and a Verizon account opened across the country with a previous address of mine in Nashville. Wow. That was opened and they added $1,700 worth of debt. Wow. Onto both of those

accounts. And the only way I found that was pulling my credit report and getting a collector call saying, hey, you owe us this money. I went, what? I didn't have Verizon. Yeah. So there you go. Something like that happened with Sam and I. It was a Discover card. And he was like, I don't know what this is. I don't know what it came from and yeah check your credit score make sure you recognize the debt and when you do pay it off this is the Ramsey Show all right you are listening to the Ramsey Show I am Jade Warshaw your host joined by George Campbell host of the George Campbell YouTube show and George um you're big into social media I'm big into social media there is a trend that is circulating that to be honest I can't tell if I think it's funny or if

I'm a little bit offended but it's called yeah a little bit of both it's called girl math so girl math is trending apparently and i'm not going to tell you what it is we have a video for you guys to watch and this kind of explains it so take a look at this there's a list of things that i firmly believe because of girl math anything under five dollars is free anything i buy with a gift card is free if i buy something but then i return it i've made money going to an event or a concert is free because i purchased the tickets so long ago it like doesn't even count. I load my Starbucks app in advance so Starbucks is free. Anything discounted more than 50% is free and I like I'm losing money by not getting it. If I'm like paying someone back for dinner and I have money in Venmo that dinner is

free. If I don't buy something like if I don't buy a pair of shorts for $50 like I've made $50 and I can then go spend $50 on something else. Okay this one's a a little bit weird, but my husband and I share credit cards and a bank account, but somehow every time that he puts down his card with his name on it, like that's free and he paid. Wow. Okay, that moved fast, but man, that's hilarious and relatable. It's ratchet. That's messed up.

All of that is so, so wrong. It's wrong. So here's my definition. So Rachel Cruz and I, we covered the concept of girl math on last week's smart money happy hour episode okay at length and it was eye-opening to say the least but here's our definition all right girl math is a term for how women justify unnecessary spending through a series of mental gymnastics so that's what it comes down to it's financial

it's money mental gymnastics yeah that is gymnastics i mean she just the way they were rolling off the tongue i was like wow this is your way of life the weird thing is i'm let me be 100 honest as a lady myself there were a couple of the ones that she said that i i think that i have rationalized in my own head yes like what when she was like if it's a gift card, it's free. I was like, yeah, I'm with that. I'm with that. If it's a gift card and you didn't buy the gift card, 100% that's free. I don't think, I don't know that that falls into girl math.

Cause that's, do you feel like a gift card is free? Can we just call this out that the guys are very much guilty of guy math, which is a whole nother thing that's now come up. What's man's man it involves more like home depot and lowe's justification you know okay the truck justification why they need a sixty thousand dollar truck so they're stupid taxes a lot more zeros on the end and the girl math but my wife has been guilty of i'm gonna return something and then she'll come home and say i made i made a seventy five dollars no, that means we just spent the difference.

Okay, can I tell you? You spent 200, you returned 75. You didn't make 75, you spent 125. Okay. You know what I mean? Well, can I tell you my version of that? Please. Because I think mine's worse.

Uh-oh. If I, like, honestly, today I have a return and I was already thinking about this. Look, look, look. Oh, I know where you're going with this. I have a pair of pants and a shirt to return and I'm like, hey, that's gonna be like $110. And I was already thinking about this. Oh, I know where you're going with this. I have a pair of pants and a shirt to return. And I'm like, hey, that's going to be like, like $110. And I was already thinking like, if I what I know what I want to get, and I'm like, it's like $140. And I'm like,

it's free because I'm like doing a return. Well, and even though it's a little bit more, I still feel like your return is going back in the budget. You're like, well, that gives me 110 bucks I can spend elsewhere. Because that money was already spent. That's right. Now I want to call out that your husband, Sam. And I do feel like you can add a little to it. Your husband, Sam, is in the lobby watching this right now. So you are spilling the tea on yourself. He is giving me a look of distaste.

He's like, you best not. I think that he's even shaking. He's having a whole conversation through the glass. I can't hear you, Sam. Oh, my gosh. I don't want to hear what you're saying right now. But girl math, here's the thing. Let me tell you a quick story. I had't want to hear what you're saying right now but girl math here's the thing I let me tell you a quick story I had a buddy call me the other night I'm not going to

tell her name she I won't put her on blast but she makes tips for a living she called me up she's like Jade if I have this tip money and I go out and buy xyz it doesn't count right and I'm like yes it does she's like yeah but it's like found money it's like extra money it doesn't count right and i'm like yes it does she's like yeah but it's like found money it's like extra money it doesn't count and i'm like oh boy yes it does so sometimes i even think if we have cash like somebody gives you cash money you get cash back in your pocket people think i don't have to add that to the budget i can just it's outside of the system it doesn't exist in the matrix there's no paper trail that is true gen z had we because we're all about like hey you know switch to cash cash envelope it'll get control your spending and then they go to cash

and they go no this is free money because it never touched my bank account so my rule is it has to be reflected in the budget all money whether it's cash whether it's a return the return in every dollar you can drag the return back into the category and refill it. That is true. I'm going to have to pray about that. I'm going to pray about that one, George. Hey, did she talk about like concert tickets or event tickets in that one? She did. She said if you buy it far in advance, it doesn't count.

Oh, that's right. I relate to that. I bought it eight months ago. So did I really spend the money? Yeah. Because by the time you get to it, you're like, oh, I don't have to pay for this because you already did. I definitely relate to that. Wait, tell you this is i don't know

if this is girl math or just weird math buying a car in cash i have said this before and i know people are probably rolling their eyes out of their head but when you save up and buy a car in cash i feel like it feels free like when you go and buy the car it's like it never happened wow because you've been putting this money aside. It's been earmarked over there. It's never been part of your emotional, like day-to-day money self. And then you just come home with the car. And you're like, that joker was free.

I'm just saying. Yeah, no, that's fair. I mean, if you write that check and you see that money disappear, there's an emotional piece where you're like, that's $23,000 that just disappeared from my bank. But you're right in that you're not going home with a payment. You're not going home with a loan. And therefore, mentally, you've removed it.

Yeah. Emotionally, you've already set that money aside. It's already been earmarked for something else. And so I think some of that is probably where this girl math takes part. You're kind of compartmentalizing your spending. You're already saying this is this, that is that. And you got to be careful, especially here. Now let's get into some serious teaching on this. I think if you're especially married, you've got to be careful with girl math, guy math, because ultimately, what's the purpose of this? Are we doing this to keep

purchases from our spouse? We're trying to fly underneath the radar. You know, Dave said it, and it's so true. You come home with those Target bags and you're like, it was a return. But why are you hiding it under the bed? Like, why are you hiding it in the back of your closet or keeping it in the car? Can I tell y'all? This is the type of stuff I used to do. I'd come home and if I'm like, oh is there i would leave the bag bags like this is risky car until when until you can sneak it in until a more opportune moment george that's what i used to do back in the day i know that is mischievous look these women out here better have my back because i know all y'all have done it too. But the point is, once we get more mature, once we start having these conversations with our

spouse and once we say, hey, like, let's share our money. Let's do what it takes to, you know, get on the same page. We have to stop all this nonsense. Well, the heart of it is it's one of the reasons we're broke. It's fun to laugh at and it's relatable and we all do it. But until you can get above that mental gymnastics and go, you know what, this is an unhealthy justification for me to spend and not actually deal with the root problem, which is my behavior and me wanting more than I have, being discontent, buying things out of stress or out of convenience. It's part of the reasons you're not hitting your financial goals. That's right. And so it's hilarious to laugh at and very relatable. And I'm not here to judge those that fall into

those camps like Jade has just admitted. Yeah. But at some point you got to just be an adult and go, yeah, okay, I can't do that anymore. And it makes you, you know, you do have to, this has been a interesting thing for me. So Financial Peace University, that's the class that we teach. It's nine weeks. It teaches you everything you need to know about money. And my husband and I coordinated that class many, many times. And a lot of times we would have younger kids in the class and like in their 20s, 21s, like that age. And Venmo, Cash App, Zelle, all of those quick money transaction apps, I noticed that a lot of people keep those apps. And I think that's where a lot of people pool

a lot of quote unquote found money or girl math or boy math money that honestly should be added to their budgets. Cause it's like, oh, I just got this. You know, me and my girl went out to dinner and she just cashed out me that. And I'm like, before you know it, you're going to look up and have like $300 cash app that's real money yeah you're and you're

just cash apping and venmoing back and forth to each other with your balances exactly while not having any money in your bank account yes that's a problem so the call to action here is let's let's let's go through this let's look at the cash apps let's look at the venmos let's look at what the return let's make all of our money actually be all of our money. And let's have that money working for us. And that's where the budget, I think, is the solution. That's right. To curbing the mental gymnastics.

That's right. Girl math and guy math and whoever else math. Yes. The budget is your friend. If you don't have a budget, check out the EveryDollar budget. It's the only budgeting app I use. I know it's the only budgeting app that George Campbell uses. You can download it today for free at EveryDollar.com. This is The Ramsey Show. All right. Thanks for hanging out with us. This is The Ramsey Show. I am your host

today, Jade Warshaw, joined by my other host, George Campbell. I'm here too. Yeah, that's right. And you know what let me go ahead and say this for the people who are in the comments we're both hosts great point what are they saying in the comments uh whoever i think they think whoever sits in this chair is the host and that whoever sits over there shouldn't talk much that's funny well we look at it as a we we call them drivers. Like who's driving the show today? Yeah.

But it's equal co-hosts. It's equal co-hosts. The funnier comment is that people think it's like Game of Thrones out here. And it's like, oh, Jade's going to take the throne. Rachel's going to, no, George is going to take. We're out here trying to fill some big old shoes of Dave Ramsey. I know that's right. So there ain't no Game of Thrones happening here.

Yes, George. So I give you permission. You could say as much as you'd like this show. Thank you for your permission, Jade. Let's go to the phone lines. We got Hannah in Columbia, Missouri. What's going on, Hannah? Hey, guys.

Thanks so much for taking my call. You're welcome. My husband and I are finishing up Baby Step 3. We have a one-year-old, and our second baby is due in February. Nice. Exciting. Yeah. My husband just started a new job this week, so we are both now working from home. We also have a nanny that we bring into our house to provide our child care, so it's a full house. We currently live in a three-, 2100 square foot house. We were going to make this space work. However, my husband had his first Zoom call with his CEO this week and was

immediately kicked off the internet. The strongest internet signal offered in our neighborhood is six megabytes. Oh gosh. Yeah. We're in the middle of nowhere. Wow. That's like dial up. Oh my gosh. It feels like. Sometimes I want to throw my computer out the window. I bet.

So between that hurdle and just wanting more space with another baby and us both being here, we're wondering if we should move and take on a bigger mortgage. How big of a room does a baby need? I'm curious. Well, I mean, we would just like for him to have his own space. But still, if I have an office and our other son and that baby. So are the bedrooms being converted into offices?

Yes. So right now I'm in an office, which would be our nursery. And I would move my office to our bedroom. Our other son has a bedroom, and then my husband was going to be in a room with no windows, kind of in a corner. And they're done that. Yeah, that's not fun. The real question is, what do the dollars and cents say? Sure.

So with his new income, our household income is $220,000. Um, yeah, our current mortgage is about two 10, um, but it's worth about two 75. So we've only been here about two years. Um, the thing to that is we owned a house before this one. Um, and we were only there six months after the basement leaked and there was mold that was discovered after we bought it um we moved and so now it feels like we're just jumping from house to house and are never going to get ahead if we keep moving that's the way we are yeah so how sorry just for clarity how long have you been in this current house? Two years. Two years. You know, I hear what you're saying, and I think the internet has some validity. If you're working from home, you need to find a way

to get steady internet. Not to nerd out, but can you just do like a hotspot from a cell phone kind of thing? Like I know Verizon, all the cell phone companies have those. Yeah, we have a mobile hotspot and it's also not offered in our area. The thing that prompted this call, we got Starlink. I was wondering about that as well. Yeah, they came out today and said, yeah, it's not going to work for you.

Like we're in a pretty rural part of town with a lot of trees. So we've looked at pretty much other... Could you work out of like a local coffee shop or co-working space nearby or anything like that? So I have a desktop phone, so I can't really pack that up and take it with me. My husband's on Zoom calls and the whole agreement with him taking this job was that he'd have so he's going to be traveling and my thing with that like was that he'd be home working so the travel would kind of offset with him being gone and not having young kids so you've been in this current home a little more than two years

so that kind of gets you off the hook if there were any gains on this. What's the, what's the property? Like if you were to sell it today, what would you get for it? What would you, what would you take home from that sale? About, um, we take home about 60 between what we owe on it and what we could sell it for. And what could you add with that? Do you have, other than your baby step three, do you have any other money saved no um we should be we should finalize baby step three by december 1st and right we could stockpile cash and move but with the baby coming in february we just i i would prefer to be settled in the house and bring our baby home yeah look i get it

here's here's what i think you guys need to see i think that there's like this ideal you have. But until you have them, especially my screen says that you want to move into a bigger house, like you want to move up. It's not like you're saying, hey, we're going to move into something that's around the same price. We're just going over here where there's internet. It sounds like you want to spend more money, have something bigger. And until you have them, because I don't know what you're pricing at. Like, what are you, what is the cost of the homes that you want to move into that's the question yeah so we were um my thing was like we've already moved twice in the last three years and I don't want to get into another house just to move in two years when we could afford it you know it just feels like if we keep jumping from house to house we're never going to get ahead um so we were looking at about like four hundred thousand dollar houses which would yeah pretty much be like three times the mortgage that we're paying right now right it feels like it's going to eat up a whole lot of your income on top of paying the nanny yeah so my worry is you guys get in there and you're like we have internet but no margin and now we're stressed out financially. Even making 220, which is a great income, can easily disappear with the current housing

market and taking on double the mortgage and paying a nanny. It very quickly could disappear. So my heart says, let's pause on this. Let's get the new baby in this current home. Let's make it work. Let's figure out a temporary internet situation. And once you're back home with the baby, nice and healthy, let's start it work let's figure out a temporary internet situation and once you're back home with the baby nice and healthy let's start shopping for a new house with more money in the bank at

that point but right now it feels like you're going to rush into a decision and then go this isn't the house either yeah right that's my worry we have no idea what like our month to month is going to look like he like he just started this week we haven't gotten that first paycheck so exactly it could yeah by the time next year we could be in a totally different position i mean you've got the nanny who can stay with the kid like i liked george george's idea of maybe you can go someplace else and get the work done that you need to get done that requires the internet while you've got the nanny on call you're paying for her to be there anyway and contact you know the company that you work for that he works for and say, hey, here's our situation.

We can't, can you help us figure out an internet situation out here? Maybe they'll cover it. Maybe they know of a way to do this. Check with your neighbors, see how they're getting internet. I can't imagine every single person

within a 10 mile radius has that kind of poor connection. Yeah, exactly. But either way, I think that the main thing to get across, Hannah, is something here, something has to

give you know i think sometimes we want to have everything all at once it's like oh i'd love for the baby to come home to a new house i've got this new income and i also think george that here's what i think it's a lifestyle creep thing it's like oh we finally got this new money and we can just like we're like so quick to spend it it It's like, just let it breathe for a second. Like get used to what life looks like. Well, because they're not, you know, I didn't hear about investing or anything, but we're at baby step three.

We still need to have 15% to invest. We need to put money away for the kids' college. I know that's right. We need to pay this house off early. So my worry is you're stuck in this baby step three no man's land forever because of that lifestyle creep. So I think we can find solutions for everything. The desktop phone, usually they can route that to hit your cell phone. Yeah. And you

can use that or they can issue a company phone, you know, that's mobile. So you don't have to lug your phone to a coffee shop or a co-working space or whatever. But in this newfangled, you know, remote world, I feel like there's more options and we just need to do some homework. Yeah, I agree with that. I agree with that wholeheartedly. Thanks for the call. That was a good, that's a good one to think about. I think, you know, there was a lot going on there. $220,000, that is a great income, but it's not a million dollars,

and it's not, you know, half a million dollars. Like that can get dwindled away very quickly on very big expenses. Like if they move into a house that they're not quite ready to afford, they can be one of those people who's living paycheck to paycheck. Who's making over six figures. Cause that's what the stats tell us.

One out of three folks making six figures still paycheck to paycheck. Yeah. And that's sad. Largely due to lifestyle creep. Yep. That's right. And debt. Got a lot of lifestyle creep too.

That's right. That's right. This is the Ramsey show. What's going on. You guys are listening to the Ramsey Show. What's going on? You guys are listening to the Ramsey Show. I am Jade Warshaw joined by George Camel,

fellow Ramsey personality and host. We're taking your calls all afternoon. The number is 888-825-5225. Give us a call. We used to say

the number was toll free, but I think these days just about every call you make is going to be a free one. You never know. I toll free but i think these days just about every call you make is going to be a free you never know i might start charging one of these days for fun if you're if you're in a nuisance of a caller oh but you owe us a dollar for our time oh don't start all right let's go to stacy in virginia beach virginia what's going on stacy good afternoon good afternoon Good afternoon. Good afternoon. How are you? I'm okay. I have an issue. I have about $30,000 in debt that I just, since COVID, I've, you know, tried paying it.

And I put it in a, um, with a consolidation company and I've just within the past couple of months, it's like impossible for me to get it down any further. And I've been paying for, this would be the fourth year. Um, so I paid it off a huge amount of it, But this last $30,000 and I'm like $3,500 behind now and because of work situation changing and everything. What kind of debt is it? I don't know what to do it. Well, a few years ago, it's credit card. It's all credit card. Two of our daughters were going through really, really bad times, and I was making good money and had excellent credit in the 800s,

and I gave them each a credit card, one of them, two of them, in their name but still on my credit. And their situation says... When you say in their name, but... So it was... Their name's on it. Okay, their name. So you just gave them a credit card that was open?

They were like an authorized user, but on your account? Correct. Okay. Correct. And unfortunately, you know, broken promises and it just hasn't happened. So I ended up putting, once I found out that they were not making their payments, I tried to keep up with it as best as I could, but because they had been late and stuff, it snowballed and one of them even used it for like rent cash advances

so did you take them off of these cards oh yeah okay great so there's no more debt being accumulated but you're on the hook and they're not paying another dime yes and i've paid um all together it was um with now this is with the interest and the fees and everything. It got up to $135,000. Oh, my gosh. Sheesh. Wait, wow. Yeah, I paid everything but this last $30,000.

So you got it from $135,000 down to $30,000. Do you have any other debt? No. Okay, and what's your household income? Well, see, that's the thing. 35 down to 30. Do you have any other debt? No. Okay. And what's your household income? Well, see, that's the thing. My husband does not know that I'm paying this. Oh, boy.

He doesn't know about the debt? He would disown them. It would totally fracture our family. And you don't think he's going to find out one day? No. No, because we don't have debt except for the only... So you have to use your own income and do this secretly with your own bank account

because he can't find out because it would destroy the family. Let me... Hold on a second. Can you flip the script for a second and imagine the tables were turned and your husband had done what you did and took out these credit cards and, you know, so on and so forth? Well, no, he knew he knew they had and he knew that they had them. He thought he thinks that they're making their payment. Either way, either way, if the tables were turned and he knew what you know, right? Like, just put yourself in his shoes. Would you want to be told? If it wouldn't be that I know he will disown them and...

No, no, no, no, no. Would you... Our grandchildren... Simple question. Would you want to know? Do you feel like you would have the right to know if you as a couple had incurred $135,000 of debt? Do you have the right to know if you as a couple had incurred $135,000 of debt? Do you have the right to know? Sure. Yes, ma'am. And here's the thing. If he disowns them,

that's a decision he made. So you can own your part. You did a lot of stupid stuff, but it's up to him what he does with this situation. Yeah. But that would mean me not getting to see my grandchildren. No, it wouldn't. Oh, sure it would, because both of them would take it, you know, the opposite. They would take it as you tattled on dad to us, and now I'm not going to, you're not our mom anymore, and you're not going to get to see the kids as punishment. Exactly. Look, if that's how this whole thing's going to go down, there's not much of a relationship there to begin with. Yeah. How are you already not resentful towards the daughters?

I'm pretty sad. This relationship can't be in great shape right now as it stands. Well, there's circumstances that led to it, and there's no excuse that if they could, and I had put it in my email, they're not in a position. They're literally just getting by. The initial, you know, that they did, there's no excuse for it because it shouldn't have been hidden from me because then I could have done something to help to rectify at that time. But they're their own women. How old were they when this were taking place? Over 18? Oh, yes.

I think. But they were both. One was getting out of a, she didn't know. She was relocating for a job, went up there. The whole family was supposed to move up when kids got summer and the now ex-husband decided he wasn't moving. And, you know, and the other was in a horrible, abusive marriage. Here's the thing. Here's what I want to say. All those things are really difficult. Those are difficult situations to manage. You're their mom. You want to step in and help.

You helped in the wrong way. And now everybody's reaping the results of that. And in this case, the consequences of that, if you wanted to help, you could have given them a gift. You could have said, hey, the right way to help in these situations is not to open a line of credit where they can spend and spend. It's to say, you know what, I'm going to cover your rent this month. And you're taking the action yourself and you've still got all the power and the control as far as the money and they can't create debt on your behalf. So I think that the hard part here is you're having to come to grips with like this. I tried to help and I botched it and it's still like, it's still reaping bad fruit and

that sucks. And I think also it's easy for you to say, oh, my husband, he'll disown them and he'll do this and he'll do that and keep it from him. But you guys have all, you've all got to get in a room and be like, this is what's going on. And it might be an episode of Jerry Springer, but you guys can't keep all these secrets off to the side. And dad doesn't know this. And mom, if you tell him you're disloyal there's no healthy boundaries here and there's no healthy relationship taking place here man i wish john deloney was here because he would get up get up all the way into this this is largely relational

but the thing is here you have you said you're having work issues do you have an income right now yes but due to covid and it's still where we live it's still not 100 open back up and to do where virginia's not open where what i do with my job and i can't say or else then that just pinpoints me okay um so my income has dropped drastically. What do you make today? The past couple of years. Jeez, probably only like $30,000 right now. You need to go find a new career. Well, I've been trying. I probably put in a dozen to two dozen.

If you go work a retail job at $16 an hour, you just got a raise. And what does your husband make? a retail job at $16 an hour. You just got a raise. And what does your husband make? Good money due to... Six figures? His career. And you guys have totally separate finances? No, we have joint also.

Okay. But this was on my own. Okay. Well, you're not going to be able to pay off this $30,000. You need his help right now, unfortunately, which means you're going to have to go and say, listen, I'm sorry. I committed financial infidelity.

I need your help fixing this. I want to salvage the relationships. I need your help. This is what marriage is. It is. Dealing with the hard stuff together. Yeah, she's going to have to swallow her pride and go in there and ask for help. This is her spouse.

And by the way, combining incomes doesn't mean that you have a joint account that you both put some into and then you have your separate accounts off to the side. That's not combining finances. That's playing yourself and you're playing your marriage too. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, what's up guys? It's Jade. Look, if you like what you heard in this episode and wanna know more about getting started

on the Ramsey baby steps, go to ramseysolutions.com and click the Get Started button. We'll help you figure out the best next step for you based on your specific situation. That's ramseysolutions.com and click Get Started.