The Ramsey Show - App - It Doesn't Cost Anything To Look At The Menu (Hour 3)

Episode Date: December 8, 2022

Dave Ramsey & Ken Coleman discuss: How much of your net worth should be invested in real estate, When you should sell rental property and pay off your mortgage, How using a 529 can be more beneficial for an UTMA when saving for your kids college, When you should prioritize saving for a home over investing, How selling the boat may be sad but being debt free brings freedom, The best way to negotiate a job change within your current company, The dangers associated with employers offering for their team to apply to be laid off. Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6 Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the pods of Moving and Storage Studios, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. We help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Thank you for joining us, America. Merry Christmas to you.

Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author and host of The Ken Coleman Show is my co-host today. And Ken's show specializes in helping you with your career your work so we're here to help you with everything you want to talk about today Gary's going to start us off this hour in Connecticut hi Gary welcome to the Ramsey show hi Dave hi Ken it's a real pleasure and honor to talk to you guys you too sir what's up well um the wife and I were struggling with how much we can afford to spend on a new home. We've been in our paid-for home for, you know, the last 30 years, and we'd like something a little better, and the real estate market has taken us a little bit by surprise and

so forth. And I guess we're just wondering, you know, looking for permission almost of how much money, you know, out of our portfolio could we spend to get a place that would suit our needs better. What's your current home worth? Well, I would say right around $300,000. What's the move-up home? What do you think it'll run? Well, we wanted to only go up to like $400,000, maybe $450,000, but it looks like we're going to have to spend up to $5,000 to $ $5,500. And what's your investment portfolio look like? How much money you got? Well, you know, the retirement accounts have taken a hit, and, you know, they're right around, I would say, you know, in the $600,000 range.

And then we did move. The other thing that we're kind of, you know, freaked out about is that, you know, it seems like in this environment, you got to buy a home and then go back and sell the one that you had. Um, so I've got like, uh, um, you know, in the neighborhood of like $350,000 in cash-type stuff to make that purchase. It was our idea to take the cash in a HELOC on this home, go out and buy a home, and then sell this one, pay the HELOC off, and then move on. Okay. Do you have any other assets other than the $600,000?

No, just, you know, about general operating and emergency stuff. Yeah. How old are you guys? I'm 65 and my wife is 60. Okay. And so if you had a $600,000 house and you had $500,000 in investments, is that going to be about right? That's about where you'd land, wouldn't it? Yeah.

You know, we'd like to keep it, you know, to like a $500,000 or $550,000 house. So you're going to have 50% of your net worth. You're going to be a little over a millionaire. You're a little over a millionaire now. And you'll be at about a 50 of that in your property that's about as high as i'd go yeah so you'd give me permission to go ahead and do that i don't need to give you permission you're the millionaire i guess so but yeah i think uh but yeah if i were in your shoes would i do that yeah i probably would

okay and here's the thing i've got a feeling you guys live fairly frugally so that the five or six hundred thousand that's in investments is probably just going to continue to grow you're not going to mess with it right no in in the wife works and she's got a good job i i gave up work um yeah so what i'm saying is if you don't touch the 600 in seven years, if it's in good mutual funds, it'll be $1.2 million. And in seven more years, it'll be $2.4. Right.

It'll double every seven years if it's in good mutual funds, making 10%. That's a rule of thumb you can take with a lump sum and always remember that. So, you know, pretty quickly you've got a couple million dollars here in your 70s in a paid for house that's gone from five or six hundred up to uh probably a million dollars during that time in value as well so you've done a great job way to go pretty cool ken it's amazing and you sit there and you he wants permission and i always like these calls and i actually throw it back to you because I think a lot of our audience, there's some psychology there. Why is it that when he's in that kind of financial shape, still feels that need for permission? What's behind that?

Well, he's been very wise, and he's a marathoner, not a sprinter. He's the tortoise. He's not the hare. And that's how he got to this level. That's how he got to being a baby steps millionaire, an everyday millionaire. And those guys, they don't take many steps back. They only take steps forward. That's right.

Because they're wise and they're careful. And it was just a phrasing, needing my permission. But what he was saying was, is this wise? Right. I don't want to take steps back i don't want to be rash yeah because rash is not something that that guy has ever been that's true yeah a lot of wisdom and that's how he got to be a millionaire by the way all you rash people bought bitcoin oh too soon you know that's it yeah and you know and and invested with bernie madoff you know and all that kind of stuff so that that's the the thing that keeps most people from getting well becoming wealthy is not they their their uh inability to earn money and invest it it's they keep doing

stupid butt stuff that sets them back and they get penalty strokes right and the penalty strokes are what kill you because you know you jack the ball out of bounds and then you can't find it it's in a swamp and so you know you but it went a long way yeah right that's you know and so that's it's a penalty stroke and it that guy doesn't get penalty strokes he hits down the middle right playing golf analogy right oh and it's not a real long drive old man golf but it's just it's not a real long drive. Old man golf. But it's just – Right down the middle, baby. Never misses. By the way, that's Dave, and I'm still playing young man golf,

swinging for the fences. Dave is putting it right down the middle. Did you just say I'm playing old man golf? No, I said – You just said that on the radio. Well, I said you put it right down the middle. Ken Coleman. You are like an arcade game many times when I play with you.

He gets up there, whack, right down the middle, whack, right down the middle. I don't even know how to play golf. I just started. All right. Troy. False humility, folks. Troy is in Louisville, Kentucky. Hi, Troy.

Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hello, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up? I'll just give you the rundown here. I'm 41 years old. I have $186,000 in debt.

I got $12,300 in my emergency fund, and my weekly income bring-home pay is $600 a week. And the debt is two properties. One is a rental house, and one is my house I'm living in. What's the rental house worth? What's the rental house worth? About $75,000 to $80,000. And what do you owe on it?

$45,000. You're not going to like me. You're too broke to own a rental house. It owns you. You're not making any money. I'd sell that thing. By the time you've got vacancy, by the time you've got vacancy by the time you got credit problems by the time you got a heat and air going out you're not making any money and and you're spending a lot of your dadgum life screwing with this thing

i'd get rid of that i love rentals but i don't like them that much We'll see you next time. ken coleman ramsey personality is my co-host today number one best-selling author of the book paycheck to purpose which by the way makes a great christmas gift at ramsey solutions number one best-selling author of the book Paycheck to Purpose, which, by the way, makes a great Christmas gift at RamseySolutions.com. In case you couldn't tell, debt-free screams are kind of a big deal around here. Folks who stand on this stage doing their debt-free scream are heroes. They choose to live like no one else. Now they're in a position to live and give like no one else. And that's why we've started giving everyone who does their debt-free scream the Live and Give Box.

It's the toolkit that will walk out the whole Baby Steps journey for living and giving like no one else the rest of your life. And now it's not just for debt-free screamers. We're offering it for sale. The Live and Give Box has three things. The Total Money Makeover Book, the Baby Steps Millionaire's Book book which you should become one and financial peace university for one year all for just 99 by the way financial peace university is usually 99 so that just kind of gives you an idea of the discount hey it's a great deal if you're debt free and you want to buy the live and give box keep the baby steps millionaires book give away the total money makeover book and go through financial peace university or let someone else go through it

you got three gifts two gifts whatever keep one for yourself it's a great idea here we go the live and give box at ramsey solutions.com that's ramsey solutions.com slash box jordan is with us in casper wyoming hi j. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave. Hey, Ken. Hi. Hey, what's up? Ken, you're a proximity principal and resume template helped my husband go from a QA supervisor to an app developer apprentice in one year.

So thank you very much. Wow, that's awesome. How much of a financial bump did he get? Well, he's only gotten five now because it was a lateral transition. But whenever he graduates from the apprenticeship, he should get about 15%. There we go. All right. Fantastic. Way to go. Very cool. Thank you for sharing. My question is, we are in Baby Step 5, and I'm wondering how you would advise us to invest for our two kids, ages one and four. So my parents have opened and contribute monthly to an UTMA for both of them,

and they're also Cherokee Nation citizens and will receive free college on the reservation all the way through their doctorate if they so choose to go that way. So as their parents, how do we invest for them considering their college is covered and they have an UTMA being invested in every month? Well, all an UTMA is is just like a mutual fund account or a savings account that is in their name, and someone sets themselves up as the custodian. So I guess your parents are the custodian of that account. So you can do an unlimited number of UTMAs.

You're just opening an account in the kid's name. That's all it is, Uniform Transfer to Minors Act. And so you also could do UTMAs if you want. The advantage of the UTMA is the mutual fund being in their name is taxed at their rate, which is much lower than your rate once it starts making some money. And the disadvantage is when they're 21 years old, it's their money. If they're doing cocaine, it's their money. And so we used to laugh at our house, and you can get canceled for this now,

but we would laugh at our house and go, and so let the beatings begin, right? So, I mean, you've got to raise good kids or you're going to screw them up with this account, right? And so that's the deal. got to raise good kids or you're going to screw them up with this account right and so uh that that's the the deal and uh we used utmost when our kids were little because there was no 529s they didn't exist so we just opened mutual funds in their names and grew them for their college funds and um and actually the weird thing was we never ended up using it for college we just gave it to them after they got married well it's already

theirs because they were 21 uh and uh we turned the paperwork over to them so they could find it um but uh after they got married and then we just paid for college we just we just cash flowed college but so if they uh on the uh cherookee scholarship thing, if they don't go to college on the reservation, that does not apply, right? That's correct. They'd be eligible for various scholarships depending on what they do and what they study, and if they commit to working for the Cherokee Nation, they can also get more money that way but they would not be fully covered right okay so um I I just want to give I want to put some options that they may choose to go to school if they had money somewhere else

and so I'm going to build some money up you know if i'm you you can either do 529 or you can do an utma either one um the interesting thing is this uh if you did a 529 and then they did go on the reservation the value of the scholarship can be removed from the 529 tax-free every year okay and so whatever the cost of college let's say it's ten thousand dollars to go to school there a year tuition you can pull that out of the 529 without paying taxes on it or any kind of scholarships for that matter if they got scholarships say uh because just because they had uh uh some Cherokee blood of x percentage right uh that that would qualify them by the way for a lot of different kinds of scholarships that have nothing

to do with the Cherokee Nation but just Native American blood uh over 116 they'll qualify you for a ton of different scholarships so uh because a lot of stuff is aimed at different things like that minorities of different kinds. So, yeah, it's wonderful. I take advantage of all that. Christina Ellis, you know, she utilized that big time when she went and got $500,000 worth of scholarships. So if they went and got scholarships just because of that, all of that money can be taken out of the 529 also.

So these kids have got it made in terms of options, and I'm going to probably use the 529 now that i've sat here and talked myself into it because they're because i can get a lot of the money back out i wouldn't over fund it i wouldn't put two hundred thousand dollars on 529 but i would have 50 to 100 in there okay and that way it's growing tax-free knowing that just about any direction they choose to go they're going to be able to remove money from there based on the value of the scholarship they go, whatever direction it is. Even if they promise to work back for the nation

and the nation paid for school, that's a scholarship. I love that tax-free provision, and I hope the government leaves it alone for crying out loud. Oh, yeah. They're smart enough to figure it out. But but that is a great provision i love that brandon is in new york city hi brandon how are you hey dave and ken good afternoon afternoon what's up so i i have a couple things going on i just want some some guidance um My wife and I actually just paid off $180,000 of student loans.

Wow, way to go. Thank you. During that time, I paused my investing to try and get it paid off as soon as possible. Now, we have a couple things going on. I have our first child coming. It's February.

Yay! Thank you. On And for that, our, our landlords are kind of old, so we're kind of living on borrowed time right now. We're renting still. So we're saving up for a house at the same time. So my question is, you know, I feel like I almost have like a year left in this place. And so I'm looking for guidance on when I should start, you know, contributing back to my retirement again considering I have basically two other life events that are going on I have a kid coming in February and we're trying to save for a house before you're debt-free right not on the street but are you debt-free we're definitely good for you the 180 got you clear good well done all right then you have an emergency fund of three to six

months of expenses and then you're going to pile up money for a down payment as fast as you can, and in the meantime, you're going to delay starting retirement. We call that baby step 3B, and that's perfectly fine. I wouldn't delay it more than three years, and you're not going to. So far, it's been two years, so that's why I'm getting more. No, no, no. You were delaying it for other reasons for two years. I'm talking about delaying it in order to save a down payment. Yep.

Which starts really now. I mean, that didn't start back in a couple years ago. You're still paying off debt. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's not the equation I'm talking about. I'm talking about once you're debt-free and you have your emergency fund, then I'm going to start saving for my down payment. How long would I delay retirement in order to really beef up the down payment a maximum of

three years okay and that's including the last three years no that's starting now once you have your emergency fund in place starting after you're debt-free and after your emergency funds in place once you start start putting money into the down payment account, that from then on, three years. And you're not going to do it longer than three years because you're just talking to me about a year. And so you're not. And if it goes much longer than that and you want to start up your retirement account later, you can.

You've got plenty of time. You're going to do both well. Congratulations. It's all going to be good. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage. Allison and Stephen are with us. Hey, guys, how are you? Great. Great, how are you?

Better than I deserve. Where do you guys live? Merry Christmas. We're from New Jersey. All right, good to have you. Fun, fun, fun. Welcome to Nashville. And down here to do a debt-free scream, how much have you paid off? $138,000. Love it. And how long did that take? About 26 months. Good for you. And your range of income during that two years? We started off around $180 plus bonus, and now we're at $250 plus bonus. Cool. What do y'all do for a living? I'm in human resources. And I'm a senior systems administrator for a subsidiary of Nationwide Insurance. Good for you. Well done, guys. Great careers. Good for you. Fun. What kind of debt was the 138? It was a combination. We had a credit card, personal loan, 401k loan, student loan.

It was everything. We had a boat. Yes, we had a boat. Boat. Boat. Boat. That was the big, you know, we sold that and we were able to pay off a lot of debt with that. Oh, wow.

We made more than what we paid for it so wow that was a big oh it's a covid boat yes exactly yeah there's a moment in time that you could do that with like cars went up yeah you know it's crazy yeah yeah it's like the mississippi flowed backwards you know it's like oh my god wow hey good job what'd the boat sell for uh we sold it for about 28 000 okay good lick nice yeah kind of kind of cry just a little bit yeah a little bit we miss it every day a lot of good memories on it but you know this this was more important but now you make a quarter million dollars a year and you don't have any debt you can save up and buy one right buy one cash yeah yeah they drive better when they don't have payments dragging behind yeah i've noticed that

myself yeah so cool guys all right so you're kind of normal you had a bunch of debt how long y'all They drive better when they don't have payments dragging behind. Yes. I've noticed that myself. So cool, guys. All right. So you're kind of normal. You had a bunch of debt. How long have y'all been married? About five years. Okay. And so about halfway into your marriage, about two and a half years in, you look up and say,

tell me about it. What happened? What got you started on this Ramsey stuff? So actually, one of my coworkers gave it as a wedding gift. So that was five years ago when we thought about it. Yeah, but it was a coaster. It was a coaster on the coffee table. Yes.

Didn't look at it. We went to financial peace. We had a nun who was teaching us at a local church. And, you know, we did the whole cut up your credit cards. And we just, we tried tried but we weren't fully into it and then um about two years ago we said all right let's get back into it let's start working on it and then actually last year my brother passed away and it was a reality check to us because we were saying you know we were always living life as YOLO you only live once

we were going on vacation, spending money, and then we said, you know what? This is not the life that we want to live. We do want more things. We want a great house. We want to buy a nice house. We want a great life for our daughter. So that was our turning point.

How old is your daughter? Five. Okay, very good. Wow. So when you finally decide, okay, this time we're going all in. I mean, we're going to sell the boat that's right yeah yeah hey nobody's questioning that commitment yeah i'm just curious tell the audience uh what did you do to drive the intensity when you said all right we we kind of got this thing now we're all in what that looked like well not going out to eat was a big one um only you know for special

occasions and we really got into thrifting yeah so we were going to thrift stores we were buying all our clothes from there yeah um you know what let me ask you this because this is real stuff here what would you uh say and you might get 190 grand buying your clothes at thrift stores i love you how much money were you saving by buying clothes from thrift i'm just curious a lot a lot probably probably five seven hundred a month five seven hundred a month that's a big chunk yeah wow yeah do you still buy thrift clothes oh yeah that's the only way we'll do it forever that's where you got that hoodie that's a life hack i'm telling you thrift store you gotta find find these find these wealthy neighborhoods and go to the thrift stores in them.

They got great stuff. Yeah. Wow. I'll be right back. Dave, you handle the rest of this call. I'll be right back. I mean, garage sales in the rich neighborhood, like an $8,000 leather couch for 50 or 60 bucks.

Exactly. It's crazy. That's awesome. You guys are incredible. Well done. Thank you. How does it feel to be free? Feels great.

Yes. It's a feeling that we've never really had before. We're starting a new life, really. When you sold the boat, did people say, you've lost your, now that's it. You've gone too far. Well, when I told them I made money on it, they said, well, okay, now we understand why you sold it. But I think they were more upset than we were because they weren't coming on the boat yeah yeah yeah that's exactly what i like a friend

with a boat or a pickup yeah that's great yeah yeah you freeloader all right when someone says how do you pay debt? What do you tell them the key is? You know, we tell them budget. That was the biggest thing for us. I think we just were watching money come out of our account, didn't really know where it was going. And now I track it down to the penny and it's really helped out. It's really, it's been an eye opener to see where our money goes and then to see these payments just drop off and be done. And now I'm saving that money. and now all these payments that i had you know we had probably seven eight payments a month now we have none yeah and it's insane how fast

your savings account will grow i met a guy many many years ago he said one of his goals was to get more mutual fund statements in his mailbox than bills oh i like that that's nice yeah i want the right kind of mail wow you know so it's a different thing yeah get rid of the bills you don't you know what are we gonna do with it that's that's it's a pretty stinking cool thing so very very well done guys i'm pretty impressed with you you're amazing heroes who was cheering you on other than the two of you? Our family, you know, my parents, her parents, a couple of friends. Yeah.

But it was really, it really was the two of us, you know, getting aligned and it helped our marriage. Yeah. We really got on the same page and, you know, we never looked back. Who gave you financial peace or what was it or total money makeover for a wedding gift? One of my coworkers did. Oh, you said that. Okay.

Did they know you did all this now? No. They, since then, have left the company, but I'm sure they'll be watching, so they'll see me on here. Now that you're a YouTube star. Yes. Very good, guys.

Very, very good. Hey, we've got a copy of Total Money Makeover for you, the Baby Steps Millionaires, and a one-year membership to Financial Peace. Now you can be that coworker that gives some of it away, very very good hey we got a copy of total money makeover for you the baby steps millionaires and a one-year membership to financial peace now you can be that co-worker that gives some of it away the live and give bundle and uh way to go very very very proud of you good times good times all right it's allison and steven from newark new jersey 138 000 paid off in 26 months making 180 to 250 count it down let's hear a debt-free scream we're debt-free

well done you guys i love it that is how it's done yeah you have to have an i've had it moment to turn the corner on this it doesn't work otherwise and uh you gotta have that moment and you know it's funny you can kind of go along and be ish on anything yeah ramsey stuff hunting your job hunting a new job putting up with whatever uh but then something happens and the switch flips and something happens in any time i mean i've kind of been a study a student for 30 years of transformation of hope and what happens that causes hope to kick in to the point that you get energized and you're willing to sacrifice yeah and you know you listen to their story it was the loss of a loved one, a sibling,

and you just start to go, okay, life is short, life is precious, and how do I want to live my life? What do I want to be told about me? And it's funny because you've said for years and years and years and years, decades, if you live like no one else later, you can live and give like no one else. And you've said things like change your family tree.

And if you just get to the root of everything that i think you're saying there it's really about what kind of life do i want to live that's in the now and then what kind of life do i want to lead and leave behind and i think that's a powerful story from their journey is that it made them take inventory and say huh yeah i don't want to live this way anymore there's something existential like the old motivational speaker used to say, there's two dates on your tombstone. The beginning when you're born, the end when you die. Neither one of those matter. What matters is what you do with the dash.

What are you going to do with your dash? So good. What are you going to do with that dash in between them? That's it. And that's what you're going to be known for. It's not the date of birth or date of death. Neither one. It's what did you do with the dash?

And something existential about that, that there's a wake-up call and you finally say that's it selling the boat this is the ramsey show សូវាប់ពីបានប់ពីបានប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពី our scripture of the day proverbs 10 12 hatred stirs up conflict but love covers over all wrongs. Martin Luther King Jr. said, let no man pull you so low as to hate him. Jacob is with us. Jacob is in Austin, Texas. Hi, Jacob. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, guys.

Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. Sure. What's up? So I actually heard about you about a year ago from my electrician he uh him and his wife they uh they paid off i think it was eighty four thousand dollars in about 18 months so once you told me that i bought your book and i'm on baby step two right now cool um so i should say thanks for what you're doing it's awesome thank you um but i was calling today just for some uh

some advice i guess you would call it but i'm a project manager here in Austin. We build luxury homes in Austin and, you know, with the market, it's kind of, you know, kind of scary with, with how things are going. We have some unsold homes are all specs, but my question is, you know, I love my company. I love who I work for, but I don't have any new starts coming up. So should I sit down and talk with my boss about my future here with the company or should I, you know, look for other jobs just to cover myself. So the reason behind this is you feel like you may get laid off because you have no starts in the pipeline? Yeah. So I've only been here for about a year and three months now. And I used to start last year job, at least one job every two months and I haven't gotten a

new start in about I think four or five months now so they haven't really told me about my future with what have you been doing or have you got another project still underway you're wrapping up yeah yeah I do so I have I have two more that I'm wrapping up they will both be done by January yeah well I gotta tell you I think it's both and. I think that not looking to leave, but just looking. It's kind of like, you know, when you get on an airplane and before we all take off, they say, all right, here's where your exits are. I think it's smart to always know, certainly in a situation like this, where you're kind

of trying to read the tea leaves, to be looking at what an exit strategy would look like. This is just about being prepared. But I would also have the conversation with your leader to say, hey, I just want to talk about a growth plan. I wouldn't go in with a lot of negatives, you know, and assume anything. I would just never want to put your leader on a defensive. You don't want to say things like, well, I'm not going to do this and I'm seeing this. I'm worried about this. I just going to go, hey, listen, you know, I want to grow and I love what I'm doing. And I love this place. And you said that on this call. So speak, you know i want to grow and i love what i'm doing and i love this place and you said that on this call so speak you know honestly about how you like it what you like

is hey um what does a growth plan look like and let's just see what the reaction is you can tell if somebody's kicking the can down the road in front of you um is there any reason is there a negative of just saying uh okay my projects are running out and i just want to i just want to you know take a temperature what's going on i want to be a good team member yeah and um i'm obviously noticing that i don't have anything in the pipeline and what can i do to add value if we don't have stuff in the pipeline yeah i think i would do a version of that i think i would say hey i'm looking at my starts and i'm looking at our schedule and I'm just wondering what the future looks like. I want to get a good idea of what the short term looks like.

And then I also want to talk about growing here. And what can I do to help while we're going through this rough patch? Yes, I would do that. I would not, you know, come at it. And he might turn around and go, look, you don't have any starts. You're going to be gone. Get ready. Right.

Yeah. Which, by the way, that's a good thing. And if a leader will be honest with you like that to say, hey, honestly, Jacob, I don't know. It's 50-50. That's great news because now you can begin to act. So I would do both. I'd have a good conversation, transparent, humble, hungry is what you're trying to posture there. And then I'd be looking for other opportunities so that you're ready.

Yeah, and you never know what will come of it. It doesn't cost anything to look at the menu nope you don't have to order just look at the menu and do not panic right don't jump you know dave and i were talking about this earlier don't panic you know and move to a company that may not be a good culture because you're going to regret that you don't sound rattled yeah and so i think you won't sound rattled when you're meeting with your leader. But if you had two job offers in your pocket, you would sound less rattled. That's right.

When you met with your leader. Because, you know, options give you power. And options give you courage. And not to be cocky or arrogant with your leader, but just, I mean, literally what happens, it changes your body language. It changes your voice tone. When you're scared, you go up a half an octave. When you're really scared, you go up two octaves.

And so it could change the way you sit. It changes the way you walk in the room. You're looking over your shoulder, you know, looking for that corporate knife in the back, all that kind of stuff. Speaking of which, Chris is on the line. Chris is in Phoenix. Chris, tell me what in the world is going on there. Hi, guys.

Thanks for taking my call. Sure. I just wanted to ask, should I apply to, or basically my company is offering voluntary layoffs. They're going to be mass layoffs right now. So I don't even know if my job is on the line, but I already feel a pull to go ahead and leave my company. I've been needing to go ahead and leave my job. Are they offering severance packages to get you out? It's just nine weeks of pay.

What do you make? 80K. How long have you been there? Almost four years. What do you make? 80K. How long have you been there? Almost four years. What do you do? Supply chain. Were you thinking about leaving them before this came about? Yes.

I'd take the nine weeks. I'd find something as quick as you can and take the nine weeks, man. This is not healthy for you. Because you already were thinking of leaving. You don't know if you're going to get laid off. Nothing exudes confidence from leadership like paying people to leave. Right. It's like the announcement, hey, we've got an overbooked flight.

We'll give you a $500 voucher if you get off of this flight and wait for the next one. It's a whole different ballgame there. There's an actual advantage and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But this is like, there's nothing good about this. So I take the deal. Should I not be scared because I don't have any offers right now? Go get one this week. You're in supply chain, for God's sakes.

You can get an offer within 10 days. Okay, let's walk through this practically. I understand what you're saying, but no, you should not be afraid. How many offers can you get by Christmas? Well, the deadline's today, so I just want to make sure I'm making the right decision. Oh, well, yeah, you could go ahead and apply for it. That would have been an interesting part of the conversation. Yeah, it would have been nice to know that.

I don't have to apply for it, but it's probably going to be the easiest way to make this smooth. So you would be laid off? So let me ask you this. If you say yes today, are you laid off tomorrow? Probably 80-20 likely. All right. And what kind of financial position are you in right now? We have an emergency fund.

I'm not concerned about the finances. Yeah. By the way, let me just say this. Let me just say this. Let me just say this. Emergency funds are not to be used for someone who can't go get a job. And if you had to go get a job delivering something, something, until we land the next thing and start getting the nine weeks, don't touch the emergency fund in this situation because I don't think you need to.

How sure are you you can land a supply chain job by the end of January? I'm very confident by the end of January. I wouldn't say by the end of this month, but by the end of January. I would give you a 90% probability if you know your stuff, you'd be landing something. Would you agree with that? I mean, I did find this job in two weeks earlier this year, so I'm pretty confident in my ability.

How much is in your emergency fund? $30K. And are you married? Yes. What does she make? $90K. Take the layoff. Yeah, right. That's exactly right. $ exactly right 90k 30k in the bank you're going to get nine weeks you got a 90 probability landing a new gig by the end of january take the deal

yeah all right does that make sense to you you see that you see the variables yep and just i want to drive a nail in this Can you live off of your wife's income from a bill standpoint? Yeah, definitely. Don't touch the emergency fund. I can always go work at Side Hustle if I need to. Yes, you can. That's right. Don't touch the emergency fund.

There you go. You're the man. That's exactly it. So, Chris, you know, you're not happy there. They're failing. They're struggling. They're weird. They're whatever they are.

Whatever puts you in a position, we're asking people to apply to be laid off i mean i can't even imagine making this announcement i i i want to know i wonder if that's fear it's like okay we don't want to actually lay anybody off if we don't have to let's see if we get some volunteers i think it's firing i think it's cowardly firing well that's why it's like quitting is cowardly quitting. Let's see if we can get anybody to volunteer. That'll be less awkward. I guess. I don't know.

The whole thing's awkward. Yeah, there you go. Ken Coleman, good job today. Thank you, sir. Jenna, Ben, Austin, Zach, and Andrew in the booth. Well done. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. We'll be back with you before you know it.

In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Hey folks, Ken Coleman here. Did you know The Ramsey Show is one of the most popular podcasts in the world? Get your daily dose of advice on life and money. Check out all of our shows from The Ramsey Network wherever you listen to podcasts.