The Ramsey Show - App - It’s Never Too Late To Start

Episode Date: June 26, 2025

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This is the Ramsey Show where America hangs out to have a conversation about their life, specifically their money, their work, and their relationships. The phone number for you to jump in and get coached up today is 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. Alongside the Natalie-attired George Camel, I am Ken Coleman. Excited to be with you. And let's get right to the phones. Christy is up in San Antonio, Texas. Christy, how can we help? Hey guys, I Have a convoluted situation here. We like the convoluted ones Why we show up for days like today. I was engaged and He declared bankruptcy during the engagement and I had no idea how much debt he was in. And we've since separated and he's left me with the house that I can no

longer afford on my own. And I'm trying to figure out if I get him back or just try to cut my losses and get rid of the house and just continue with my life. Okay, hold on. If I get him back, is that what you said? What does that mean? What does that involve? I don't know. We've been, we've been having this like back and forth thing for the last three months since we've been separated. And I don't know, I just feel like, I hate that like he kind of left me with all these responsibilities that he committed to with me. And yeah, but can I tell you this?

We were together for so many years. I'm glad he did it now as opposed to later. This dude is a loser. Yeah. And you know it. So is your name on the house? That's what I'm understanding that you two bought this together.

He gave me the down payment. So yeah, it's just mine. Oh, it's all you. Yeah, it's all me. So only your name's on the deed, only your name's on the mortgage? Yeah. Okay. What's the house worth if you were to sell it today? Probably like $310. What do you owe on it?? 350 plus the forbearance for the last year. And what's the mortgage payment? 3000 a month. All right. And what is your income, your take home every month?

Zero. What? Yeah. It feels like that should have been a part of the initial information. What do you mean zero? Well, I'm back in school. I was making 120 a year and got laid off. And so now I'm going back to finish my degree. And I haven't had an income technically since, well, my unemployment ended last week, but so now it's zero. Christy, Christy,

Christy. So first things first. And George, I want you to jump in here because it's hard to talk budgeting and stuff like that when you have zero income. And I know what happened to you. I've counseled so many people like you who something negative happens in their professional life. And then the decision becomes,

well, I'm gonna go get a degree. In your case you never finished your degree and so you say well I'm gonna go finish my degree because it's gonna put me in a better professional situation. Am I right so far? Right, you're right. Except for the fact that at one point you were making over a hundred thousand dollars a year without that degree. Right. So Christy, we're pressing pause on the education and we're gonna go get a job. I know, well, so the good thing is the house is on Airbnb and I'm supposed to gross 5,000 next month.

It's just the operating costs to keep the house afloat are like 35 to four grand. Where are you gonna go? Where are you gonna live? I know, well, that's kind of the thing. I'm like technically homeless right now, so I'm very angry with my ex-fee. What do you mean by technically homeless? I am couch surfing, pet sitting, house sitting,

doing whatever I have to do, staying at the house when people aren't here. All right, George, does she sell this house and take the hit? Yeah, I'm confused. So what happened to his down payment? Uh, well, what do you mean? It's he he gave me the money for the down payment.

So like it went towards the house. So why is the house only worth 310, but you owe 350? Because we bought it for 365 and put three and a half percent down. So you buy the house for 365 with 3.5% down. In 2022, so the market was just super hot. And now you're saying the house is worth less than you paid for it by a long shot. Yeah, and I've invested a lot of money into it,

remodeling and all the things. Yeah, that's what's not making sense. How did you buy it for $50,000 more than it's worth and you put a bunch of work into it, remodeling and all the things. Yeah, that's what's not making sense. How did you buy it for $50,000 more than it's worth and you put a bunch of work into it? I'm just not, I'm not buying that this house is worth only 310 at this point. Yeah, I don't know. Honestly, I probably need to get an appraisal, but.

Who told you it was worth 310? Zillow. Let's not trust Zillow. Oh, my head is hurtin' Christy. Zillow doesn't know the renovations. Okay you need to get with a real estate pro today. Jump on to ramsysolutions.com we'll connect you to a real estate pro you can trust to help you through this but you need to sell this today. And Christie. No Airbnb schemes while you're

homeless on the street. This is insane. Yeah. No matter which way you spin it. And press pause on school, please. Yeah. Okay. Listen, first of all, we're, listen, George and I are on your team. We're team Christie. Team Christie. I got the t-shirt on underneath my shirt here. Go Christie, go. Okay. But if I can be your older brother today, you can fix this. Okay. But the operating work- I guess I just thought he was going to come back, you know? No, he's not going to come back. He's a loser.

I don't want him to come back. Get a job. I said I'm playing your older brother right now. If this dude comes back tonight, I'm on the front porch going, hey, bro, step off. You're a loser. But let's forget about the relationship advice, all right? If he comes back and he's a changed guy and all that whatever but I'm not counting on that but he's not gonna fix your financial

problems you don't have a job and you have a house you cannot afford so regardless of loser guy becoming Prince Charming still got to fix those problems and you have to be intentional with some urgency. Bless your heart. I know you've been through a rough time, but I feel like I'm talking to somebody who's kind of laissez faire about this whole thing. Like, well, I'm just kind of couch surfing right now.

Ha ha ha ha ha. And I'm, you know, it's like, no! Like, Christy, like, you can fix this. So pause school, sell the house, get with a real estate pro today. George, go to our website, ramsayscelution.com, find somebody local. Say, hey, I was just on the phone with Ken and George.

I'm in a mess. I need a pro to help me sell this house and get me out of this thing. So we get out of that, you get a job, go make six figures again, and get yourself right-sized, do you have any other debt or anything else going on financially that we need to be talking about? I mean, just student loan debt

from being off and on with school. I'm just worried because I can't drop out again from UT or they won't readmit me. Who cares? That's the least of your problems. What degree are you trying to pursue that you didn't finish? A software designer by trade.

Nobody even forget. I was just getting a bachelor's in design. No, don't. Nobody cares. You don't need a degree to win in software design. Yeah, I know. You can go right into that field, work your way up. And by the way, nobody cares if you went to UT or not.

So UT dropping you and not letting you back in is the least of your worries. George? Yeah, you should not be sinking any more money and time into this because you are literally homeless. There's a much bigger problem. So a post-corporate program isn't gonna be in my best interest then?

No, these are all shortcuts that are masking what's underneath, which is you have created a house of cards that is quickly falling apart. and we need to be drastic about this. Cut the Airbnb ties, get with the Real Estate Pro, list it this week and be done with it. Have a home you actually live in, rent somewhere for a while, clean up the financial mess and move on. George this is why we don't buy houses with people we're not married to. No, this is the thousandth story on the show of how

this can go wrong. I'm so sorry. I gotta get George some Tylenol. I see a headache coming up. Let's go to Alex in Knoxville, Tennessee. Alex, how can we help today? Hey guys, thank you for taking my call. I'm a big fan of the show.

I watch your all YouTube videos and everything about investing and stuff. It means a lot. You all took my call. Anyways, so I'm in a very, very, very bad spot and I feel pretty much like nothing at this point. I took out a, so basically my job, I work, it's a federal job, I guess I can say it, I work at the United States Postal Service and we lost a lot of our package volume so I knew that I was going to have to come up with some more money somehow and

stupidly I took on day trading and I made like $120,000 in three months, but I took out a $60,000 loan to get that. Um, and uh, one story short, I ended up losing the money and then I took out another loan to try and make it back and lost it too. So now I owe like $6,200 a month in expenses and I make like 4,000 and I'm about to lose my job because I can't afford a delivery vehicle to deliver out of because it's part of the contract and I'm freaking out my

girlfriend cheated on me and I feel like I'm gonna lose her and I feel like a lame excuse for man and I just don't know what to do anymore. All right. Well, first of all take a deep breath Glad you called us and I want to start with The fact that you're not a loser. You've had some losses and those losses sting but welcome to the human race you made some poor decisions and really what you did you made one bad decision and you got panicked and You made another bad decision trying to bail yourself out But I got to tell you you're not a loser and I mean that from the bottom of my heart.. But I gotta tell you, you're not a loser.

And I mean that from the bottom of my heart. This isn't a pep talk, you're not a loser. Sorry about the girlfriend situation. You'll look back on this many years from now, and you'll thank God that you didn't go the long haul with her. So you've got two massive hurts, just absolute, a left hook and a right cross, and you're spinning.

I'm still working, I'm trying to figure everything out. Well, we're not gonna talk about the relationship part right now. I wanna focus on the bigger issue, which is you're $100,000 in debt and you might lose your job, okay? So how certain are you that you and you might lose your job. Okay? So yeah How certain are you that you're going to lose the job? Is this a foregone conclusion?

Because you can't afford a car If I mean I might be able to get My dad or my grandmother or somebody to help me get a vehicle. So that that's a piece of mind there I don't think that they would let me die, I guess. Well, first of all, you're not going to die. Okay. We've taken calls, George, with a lot more debt on the line than the hard task. Yeah, there's not like a bookie coming after you, is there? Like, are you burying the lead here? I'm just so overwhelmed because of how much underwater I am every month. I've been working like 60 to 80 hours a week for the past five years and I've got nothing

to show for it. For how much? What's your income? Last year it was $87,000 and this year with the overtime cut it looks like it's going to be about $65,000 or $70,000. And how old are you? 24. Are you currently working with the no overtime?

How many hours a week are you averaging right now? I'm getting like $55,000 so right now I'm getting about $2,500 over two weeks take home but that's going to be gone in about two months. Okay, so. It'll be like 1800. Okay, so here's some good news. Good news. You feel like you can get a vehicle.

You feel like you got a family member that can bail you out in the short term to keep this initial job. We wanna do everything we can to keep it. But you're going to have to, you've worked crazy hours before. You're gonna have to work a second job maybe a third job for the foreseeable future and

That's all know how because I'm so tired Mentally exhausted I get it brother, but guess what I? Had I had my wife and I had three kids under the age of three I don't want to hear a young 24 year old tell me how mentally exhausted he is. I'm just gonna pull that card out, George. Single moms have stood on this debt-free stage many, many times and talked about

how much debt they paid off. I'm not knocking or in any way minimizing how tired you feel because you've been through a lot emotionally, but you got plenty left in the tank. I've just seen people deal with far more than you're dealing with right now. All right, here's the good news. You're not married to this woman.

All right, it hurts. But you don't have time for a girlfriend right now. There is no way out of this, Alex. That's what I'm trying to tell you. George and I don't have a magic piece of advice right now for you to get out of this, other than you're going to have to get A, a better job, or B, get a second or third job to get the income in. So I want you to suspend your disbelief for just a moment.

And I want to bring George in. And let's just say that we can get our income back up to that $80,000 or $85,000 where you were before. George, I want you to walk him through because this is a kid right here who does not believe that he can get out of this thing. Let's go walk him through what he does to begin to knock this 100,000 down. Well let's talk about what kind of debt this is exactly. So how much debt total? You told us the monthly number, what's the total balance? They're all unsecured loans and one of them is forty three thousand dollars and then another one is thirty thousand dollars but that one's a twenty two

percent interest rate and then I have another one at fourteen thousand dollars and then I owe my dad eleven thousand seven hundred dollars but I just wanted to briefly touch it like I get that I'm not married to that girl, but I have been with her for four years and she's got a five-year-old. So I'm like, all she knows, you know, so. Yeah, but buddy. I feel like a failure to them.

But Alex, you're not. She cheated on you. This is a separate call. And you told us she's giving up on you. Yeah, we don't have time in this call to address that. The bigger issue, my friend, is your money situation. Okay? George?

So you have about $100,000 in unsecured debt. And who gave you these loans? SoFi Bank and Stidi Bank. And they're just all personal loans? Yeah. Okay. So here's the deal. You don't pay them a dime until you've paid your own bills first.

Food, utilities, housing, transportation. So if we look at those areas, how can we cut down on those areas in order to create some margin? Where are you living right now? I live with my girlfriend and we rent. It's actually a really, really good situation where we've been there for several years and the rent and utilities together is only $800. It's a little trailer.

Okay. I don't know if, I mean the price point, sure, but the living situation doesn't sound ideal to me, but you make a great salary for a 24-year-old living in Knoxville, Tennessee. Can we agree on that? That if you didn't have debt, you'd have a great life. Yeah, that's all I really want. Have you cut off all access to day trading

or any other gambling? Yes and no. I'm still looking to see if I can, I've got $7,000 cash left. I was trying to see if I could find, you know, one big... Alex, this is not, this is not Ocean's Eleven. You're not going to hit the roulette table and strike it rich and clean up this mess. You're just going to dig yourself no deeper hole.

That's what got us into this mess. Would you agree? Is desperation and greed? Yeah. So it's not the way out either and so you have to cut off access to the thing that ruins your life, which is day trading. Yeah. It's not gonna be the solution. You are the solution. You getting off your butt, working 60-70 hours for the next two years, that's what's gonna clean this up. So how can we get you making-

It's gonna be more than that. What's that? It's probably gonna be more than 60 or 70 because I'm working 55 now. I'm gonna have to work another full-time job just to make payment. Well, or like Ken said, you find a better paying job. Yeah.

I don't want you to think that I have to work 100 hours because I make 25 hours, $25 an hour. Yeah. What are the skills that have caused you to make this money? And how can we find a different job even that can pay more than that? Maybe that's not a government job in the private sector. That's the problem is I never finished school so I don't have a degree so anything else looks like less.

No, you don't need a degree. You know what you need to do is go get a job in the trades. They don't care about degrees. If you show up and work hard, you'll make need a degree. You know what you need to do is go get a job in the trades They don't care about degrees if you show up and work hard you'll make money, but I'm gonna tell you something Alex I'm really concerned because I'm still hearing a guy who's so beat up That doesn't believe he can get out of this and George just gave you the the answer You don't have to pay all these people right away. You got to take care of you first It's unsecured if it goes to collections, they'll write it off and they'll have to fight another day You're gonna be fine, but I'd get out of this little teeny tiny trailer with this woman who cheated on you too. My goodness, you're staring at failure all day long.

All right, Brendan is joining us in Boston, Massachusetts. That's George Campbell's old neck of the woods. Love it when George gets to talk to somebody from Boston. Brendan, how can we help today? Hey, Ken and George. Hey, thanks for taking my call. I couldn't have handpicked better folks to kind of talk through my situation with me. Oh, that's good.

Because you didn't get a choice. So, well, a lot to unpack here, but I want here, but you know, after following the Ramsey principles to a T, should I pay to go back to school and most likely end up taking a pay cut to pursue a new career in my current stage of life? Okay, I got questions. So which direction are we planning to go that requires you to go back to school? So I've always been drawn to clinical side of healthcare.

I've worked on the business side of healthcare for the last 10 years. And I woke up one day and I'm like, this really isn't doing it for me. So I applied to nursing school to eventually become a nurse practitioner. And that would require the going back. Got to do it.

All right, that always answers my first question. Is it the only way or is it the best way? And in this case, if you want to be a nurse practitioner, it's the only way, which means it's the best way. So we know that part. Now, you said you followed the Ramsey plan and so does that tell us that you've got the money saved up for school to be able to cash flow? What's that going to do? What's income and paying for school look like?

Yeah, yeah. So we've been planning for this. It's been a long application cycle. So we have, you know, all the money saved for it to pay out of pocket. Great. We've been kind of planning for all this the last couple of years. Who's we? My wife and I. Perfect. And what's her income? Give me your combined income right now. Yeah, annual household income is $325,000. Oh, awesome. How much of that is yours? Just about half of it. So you're both in that 150 range? That's right. Okay. A little bit more, yeah. Okay and then you saved up the money to go, so I'm not hearing anything. I've got no flags yet, George. So will you be able to continue to work while you're going to school or is this a I got to be full

time? It's an accelerated program, so they really encourage full time. So I was planning to go full time. All right, have you guys budgeted for that slashing of your income by a half? We have. We have a two year old now and a new baby on the way. So we've been saving for what we anticipate daycare costs to be. So we should be able to do it. And so how long is the Accelerator program? It's 18 months to become a nurse and then it's

another 18 months part-time to become a nurse practitioner. All right, so can you work after the first 18 months will you be able to be employed as a nurse practitioner. All right. So can you work after the first 18 months? Will you be able to be employed as a nurse and start making money again? Yes. Okay. Again, I don't see any flags. George? Yeah.

You guys have done your homework. You know the cost. You've made sure that your family can afford this major life change. And I think it's a great goal. My brother is a nurse practitioner in Boston, and I don't think there's anything else he'd rather be doing. So it's an awesome field. You're gonna get, you mentioned this pay cut.

Are you talking about an interim until you get back into work? That's right, yeah. What I'm seeing is starting salaries for nursing is in this area, anywhere from like 70 to 80K for new grads. You know, with me making 150K now, it feels, you know, silly to pay out of pocket to go back to school to then also be taking a pay cut.

And you know, I've- But that's for 18 months. Once you're an NP, what will you be making? Probably closer to what you're making now and eventually more. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, probably close to it. So this is not a long-term pay cut.

That's right. And it's what you wanna be doing. Cause would you be miserable three years from now if you were in the same position you are today doing the work you're doing? Oh yeah, yeah, I'm already miserable right now. And could you live off of 250 household income instead of 325 if you were doing what you loved?

Definitely, yeah. I think we have our answers. Yeah, and Brendan, I'm not kidding you. And when I used to have the Ken Coleman show, George, this would have been a textbook answer for what I would have given to somebody to actually make a transition. And Brendan, you've done it.

And very few are willing to do it and have done the work. Yeah, the fact that you guys have saved up money for that bridge between going back to school and getting hired and then 18 months ought to be 36 months, you'll be back to where you are financially, if not more, and very, very happy. You've done this by the book. Everything you just answered is exactly what I would tell somebody on how to transition if you're going to take a temporary pay cut. And you guys have adjusted your lifestyle.

I say bravo, George. Yeah. And this is one of those situations, Brendan, where on paper, you're right, it doesn't make sense on paper mathematically. But money isn't everything once you have some. And you guys have put yourself in a position where you have the money to cashflow all of this, to not be in crippling debt at the end. You have a great income even without you working. And so that makes me feel a lot of peace about this. Very rarely are all the boxes being checked.

And so you've got all green lights from Ken and I. I would only disagree with you on one thing, George. I do think this makes sense on paper. This whole plan makes sense. Well, he's saying if I lose the income, we're gonna cut the income in half. Once I am working again, I'll be not making what I was making. So he's going, this doesn't make sense. But only for short term. Exactly. So the way I'm looking at it is that after that first 18 months, I'm not going, why did I do all this to be making less money? That's the first part of the 18 months. 18 more months later, you're making the same amount if not more, correct?

Right, that's right. So bro, this is a three year plan. To be doing something you love, and you're gonna be making the same amount of money if not more. That to me is wise. So I was having a little fun, of course I don't disagree with you on that.

But I mean, this to me- But the short term plan on paper is- Yeah, but again, you're taking the necessary steps to where this isn't actually going backwards. This is just intentionality. Yeah. Even though it feels like you're going backwards, you're really not. It's part of a long-term plan, and I think you're going to be thrilled, and I can't praise you enough. I'm not kidding you. You're the poster child for how to change careers. And having been on the business side, I think that's only gonna help you in this next chapter. That's a great point.

And accelerate your experience and your income. Who wouldn't want to hire a guy who understands all sides? Question for the... Yeah, thank you, George. And question for you both, you know, just similar situation. Like I'm a young dad I know you guys both have kids any advice on how to deal with sort of the guilt piece of it of You know investing in myself to go back to school when you feel like you should be Pouring into your you know nuclear family unit. I

Love this question Brendan. You're such a good dude It's funny cuz it's like only good dads ask this question. Brendan, you're such a good dude. It's funny because it's like only good dads ask this question. Yeah, and can I just say this? Your kid is gonna be so young he's not gonna remember any of this. And so the answer is there's nothing you're pouring into the guy except milk. And that's coming right back out, bud. You know that. So you just, you're being a great dad by doing all of this while he's so young, or she's so young, whatever your situation's gonna be, and you're gonna be a much better father

when the time comes to actually pour into them because you're not miserable. They get a picture of what it looks like for a guy who didn't settle. Yeah, imagine doing what you're doing now. You're already miserable. You think that wouldn't impact you driving home 10 years from now? The kids 10 years of age? You're right. I know.

You're right. Yeah, it already does. Exactly. So you're actually doing the right thing because a healthy you gives that child and your children a chance to be healthy. And the best part is when you are home, you're going to be so present. That's right. Because you know you're going to cherish those moments. That's it. So I'm proud of you, man. Can I ask what this whole program costs, the accelerator program from RN to NP?

Yeah, yeah. So the accelerated portion is right around 40 and then the it's all in state tuition and then the next portion of it is right around 30. So all in right around 75. Fantastic. That's not bad. Not bad. And you know what's interesting, George, and Brendan, I'm telling you, and George will back me up on this, you're going to come out of this program and you're not only going to feel good about what you've done, you're going to realize that you're the only one who paid cash and you're going to be so light, you're going to come out of this program and you're not even going to feel good about what you've done. You're going to realize that you're the only one who paid cash and you're going to be so light, you're going to be floating through the hallways. You're going to be the weirdest guy in the office. While everybody else is trudging around in those medical, what do you call them?

Scrubs? Yeah, but no, the shoes that are at the Crocs. Oh, the Crocs. I can't do the Crocs. It's the only reason I'm not a doctor. Yeah. Only reason. I know. I know. In fact, if I see a doctor or nurse with Crocs, I don't trust them. All right, George, it's time to talk about protections. You know, you love talking about protections. You know, you're the guy who knows more about insurance than anybody else. I can't find my sheet. It's against my will. I got the sheet. I got you.

Here's the thing. Here's why we're talking about it. There it is. Couldn't have been more obvious, by the way. It said coverage checkup right there on the paper. Ken is hooked on phonics today. That's right. So when you're tackling debt, you're building wealth, people often forget about one of the

most important steps to reaching those goals, which is insurance. Having the right coverage as opposed to having too little, too much, can impact how long it takes to get there. You gotta have the Goldilocks level of insurance. Skimping on it might seem like you're saving, but when life happens, very dangerous situation. You can easily fall back into debt and put yourself out there, very exposed,

with a lot of liability. Question for you. Do you find that people are over covered more often or under covered? Which one do you see? They're under covered unless they fell for a really terrible insurance product that was sold to them as something they needed. Like whole life insurance. Okay.

If they have that, they got sold a terrible policy. Most people are under insured. In fact, this is no joke, right before the show, I was on the phone with my insurance. Oh, I'm not surprised by this. Over at Xander, she's great. This is real life, George. Yeah, I don't wanna give her a name

because then people will be calling her saying, hey, I wanna. And what were you doing? What were you doing? You checking your coverage? I have a roof claim right now. Oh. Hale.

Hale damage, yep, and might need to be replaced. And so she is so helpful working with the field adjusters from the insurance company, the realtors, everyone. So she's just the best. So the right insurance will act as a shield around your loved ones, around your wallet, around your wealth, if disaster strikes. In some cases it can even save you money for paying too much for bogus ones like cell phone insurance.

And one of my favorite things to do is send people to our coverage checkup tool. It's a free online resource, creates a personalized insurance action plan that's unique to you in your situation. And if you think, why would I want to take a coverage checkup? Well, I helped a friend of mine. I said, hey, what are you paying for your insurance? She told me and I was flabbergasted. And so she took the coverage checkup and got in touch with an insurance pro, a broker who

was sourcing the best deal among many different companies, ended up saving her over a thousand bucks a year with one phone call. I'll bet she was then flabbergasted. With better coverage than she had. So one reason to do it is it's going to free up a whole bunch of margin in your budget. So go check it out. RamseySolutions.com slash checkup. Take the coverage checkup or click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or podcast. Got to tell you a great usage of a word

there. You know, flabbergasted is it's it's you don't even I don't even know what it means but everybody knows what it means. It's up there with gob smacked for me. I like a good gob smacked usage as well. That's that's one. Nobody knows what that means either. But if your gob has been smacked, then something significant has happened. It's a big deal. That's all I know. It's a big deal. Michael, sometimes folks, I'm gonna confess,

George and I are just entertaining ourselves, and if you get something out of it, great. You're likely not. You probably aren't. Michael is up in Sacramento, California. Michael, how can we help? Hey fellas, how you guys doing today? Well, we're having a little too much fun.

I hear it. So, my question is, me and my wife are in a lot of debt. We're trying to do the snowball, but the problem is we aren't making enough to make minimums as it is. We have our house expense, our credit card expense, and everything that comes with five kids. So my question for you today is would it be smart for me to go into collections on a select few of credit cards and then in a year after we paid off a lot of them start saving to call the collection agencies and pay off

Kind of what I actually owe well you may have to call the cell phone company first I don't know if you broke up on that Talk a little bit closer to the phone or get a good spot You're wanting to intentionally stop paying on your debts have them go to collections and go I'll worry about it later and try to negotiate Yeah, basically because I can barely make the minimums on my debt. Well, it's a terrible solution to an already terrible problem.

So the better question is, how do we get our income up and our expenses down in order to create some margin? Because these debts are not gonna go away. All that's gonna happen is it'll destroy your credit, the debts are still there, and then the companies will come after you, probably sue you, and you'll end up in court trying to fight this, and you're probably going to end up paying more than what you owe after all the fees are incurred.

Yeah. Michael, hi. So, Michael, quick question. How old is your oldest child? My oldest is 19. 19. Okay, this is perfect. I want you to flip the question that you just gave George and I, and I want you to picture

your son coming to you and saying, hey dad, I committed to do this, this, this, and this. I don't have any time. I got no time. I'm overcommitted. Can I just like ghost all these people that I committed to? What do you think, Dad? What would you say to him if he threw a scenario like you threw at us or my version I just gave to you?

What would you say to your 19-year-old? I'd probably say that's not the best idea. Why is it not the best idea? Because if you, basically if you're committing to these people, then your word is your bond and you need to figure it out and figure out how to get it taken care of with all the people that you've committed to. Great answer. I agree with you.

And I think there's one other thing. And I think you'll agree with me on this one. I think the other reason you'd give your son that advice, and the reason that you believe that's the right advice, is because he wouldn't learn anything at all if he just ghosted everybody and just did a clean slate. Am I right or am I wrong? No, you're absolutely right. So I'm not trying to be cute. I'm just trying to help you understand that that's essentially what you just brought to George and I.

And if you do this, it's the easy way out. It's not really easy. It's going to be a nightmare dealing with it. But that's what I'm hearing. And I just, I hope that helps you. It's not who you are, man. You signed up for this stuff. Your word is your bond. And I think that you wouldn't learn anything

if you went this route. Not to mention it's not as easy as you think. I think we're talking to a guy with his back against the wall and you're going, hey man, this is all I got left. This is the only card I have left to play. And we believe in Michael, maybe more than Michael believes in Michael right now.

So let's talk through the actual numbers and see if we can find a different solution here. What is your household income? So we are making about 68 to 70,000 a year. Okay, and what is the total debt balance for consumer debt, non-mortgage? 75,000. Okay, and what is your mortgage payment every month?

We rent. Okay, what's your rent every month? Way too much, because I live in California. It's about $3,200. Okay. Well, for a family of seven, that feels reasonable in California. I've seen prices with the same house around 27. You double income or one income?

We are one income. I work full time at a machine shop. My wife works part time at our church. Can she bump up her hours or get a better full time job? At this point we are hoping she doesn't have to. She homeschools our kids. I didn't ask you that. You sound like a politician on a Sunday morning show. I'm saying, can she get a full-time job at the church or a better full-time job for a season of life to help dig you out of this? I would say at this point, no, because daycare would be too expensive. We don't have any friends or family members that can watch The Littles?

Not near us, not close enough. And the church doesn't have a daycare? Not during the week. Okay. Well, if she's working full-time, that could cover the child care and give you guys some margin. Yeah. And I think that might be the solution. You guys gotta get more income, brother.

I'm working on that now I I work 66 hours a week and I have a second job. What's keeping you guys in this specific area of California? Nothing I want to leave but my wife doesn't want to. For what reason? We live in a really nice small town and... It's a town you can't afford. It is, really. It's over half your take-home pay every single month. Yeah.

She's not going to have a house soon if we don't do something drastic. She's not going to get to do homeschool and everything else. This is a real serious marriage conversation. We need to come to Jesus' meeting tonight with the wife and she's going to have to choose reality. And either she's working full-time and we create some margin here to clean this mess up, or I think we're going to have to look at other options, which means public school, downsizing, anything we can do to cut the expenses and increase the income.

That's your only way out of here, not defaulting on the debts. This is The Ramsey Show, where we help America win with their money, win in their profession, and win in their relationships. The phone number to jump in is triple-eight-eight-two-five-five-two-two-five, triple-eight-eight-two-five-five-two-two-five. He put the bomb in bomber jacket. George Campbell. Too soon, Ken. too soon. We got a lot going on in the world today. I shouldn't even want a bomber jacket. Oh I didn't even I didn't see you doing that. I was wow well played sir. He stepped right in right in it. Right

in it folks. That's why I like being with him. He's quick folks. You should see him on a skateboard. He's even quicker. That's actually true. I'm Ken Coleman alongside, of course, the man, the myth. Not quite the legend. Yeah, let's not go that far. George Campbell, he's got a long way to go. He's too young. I am a mythical folklore type creature under a bridge.

You are. You are. Yeah. You gotta pay the troll toll. You're like a modern day hobbit. Thank you. Yeah. Very cool. I add that to my Instagram bio.

Did you get a fresh haircut? I did. I thought I'm hosting with Ken Coleman today. You got the high and tight. Let's put our best foot forward. Yeah. What, uh, what, uh, clipper, what length are they doing right there? I think he's doing a two. A two. That's pretty tight. As I see, oh, you can see it on camera. Thank you. The angles, guys. Got the white walls there. I like it. Whoever was listening is no longer listening.

No, but they're, they're fine. They're here for that. They want to know, George. Okay. Ali, I guess. Is it Ali or Ali? I'm not sure. We'll go with Ali. We'll try. I never know. I'm hooked on phonics usually. Here we go. Ali?

Yes, it's Ali. Oh, great. I got it right. Boy, I was nervous there. One L could go both ways. It could. It could. How can we help today, Allie? Well, we can delve into the details, but my main question is, I'm in my 50s. My mother is 80-ish, almost 81.

My main question is, as her only child, am I responsible moving forward, trying to save for my own retirement, to take care of her financially because she has spent most of her life making bad decisions for herself? No. Okay. What makes you think you are responsible? Because I'm her, like I said, I'm her only child and I- Is she putting a little bit of this on you?

A little bit of passive aggressive guilt, take care of mama? Little bit. I had a feeling. Little bit. She made a comment not too long ago about when she's out of money, it will quote unquote be on me. That's not even passive that's just straight aggressive. Right. Was she half joking or was she dead serious? I think she was serious kind of with a smile like I know you'll take care of me kind of thing and she's a sender. I'm so sorry. Ali, I'm sorry because let me tell you

something. Here's what I don't want to skip over. That's a really unfair and really heavy weight to put on somebody. It is. And I'm sorry. Thank you. And I'm not making her out to be awful. No. I want to honor your mom. she's a great mom. She's a wonderful mother. Great mom. She's terrible in money. Exactly. Yeah. Not your problem. Right. So you can honor her without agreeing with her, without funding their decisions indefinitely, without enabling financial misbehavior. And so I want to free you from that, that that is not your responsibility morally, ethically, legally. If you want to help her and you have the ability to help, you can do so. Right.

Here's the big question. So, it's two-parter. A, have you told her, uh, mom, it's not my responsibility. These two clowns on the radio and podcast and YouTube told me. They told me it's not and I agree with them a have you told her that it's not your responsibility and that you're not going to and B if you haven't

And when you do tell her does she have any kind of means? By which to change her behavior at this late in the game to where she's not a burden for the state since she's not going to be a burden for you? Right. I don't think I haven't sat her down and said, look, you know, you can't do this anymore because I am not going to fund you. I can't. I have two jobs. I'm trying to put away from my own retirement. You're trying to

break a cycle. I am breaking this cycle. Don't you think you should talk to her soon? Oh, I'm sure I should. The comment that I made to her after she told me it was going to be on me was, what do you want me to do? Get three jobs. That's kind of what I told her. Well, again, that was, we're both playing this passive game. Right, exactly. Passive, yes. So, second question. My second question, what's the answer to that? She has to meet, well, she gets 20-ish, 2200, 2400 social security.

She sold her condo two years ago, moved in for a profit, moved in with me and my adult children. And the profit, I think it was around 150, she paid off some credit cards left with 100 and that's all gone. Where, what do you mean it's gone? She spent it.

On? Food. QVC. No, she's not really a huge. I know, that was terrible. That was such a stereotype ageism comment I apologize to the audience, but it was funny people laughed in the lobby. She likes big stuff She's I always call her champagne taste on a beer budget. I know her

I know her well, I love her legacy. So she's living with you right now She is that feels like a problem. This is worse. Yeah and then since two months after a couple months after she moved in with me in Soldier Condo she developed AFib. So she's battling you know this heart thing she's got. She's got heart issues and heart failure and then that makes me feel even worse like I'm not gonna take care of you. So she piled up a bunch of debt or she just spent all of her cash? She spent her cash, she piled up another maybe 40 or 50s worth of credit card debt and now she has filed for bankruptcy and also hired an IRS attorney to get her out of the 17,000 IRS debt that she has as well.

Wow. So how much debt does she have remaining? The only thing she has left after all of her credit cards and stuff is her car, which she owes about $8,000 on. Does she even drive anymore? She does. If you could see her, she doesn't act 80, look 80. She drives. She plays bridge. Oh, I know. She acts like a 16-year-old girl that live in the endless summer, sounds like to me. And I want her to do those things. I don't want her, you know, I want her to get out and get some fresh air and that but her heart issues now have made it really difficult for her to even walk up the stairs and stuff.

Alright George, so what does she do here? Well, she's already living with you. You're not going to evict your mother and put her out on the street. So you've signed up to have her live with you and take care of her. So your only option is to go, Mom. She does pay rent. Yeah, you're going, mom, I'm going to take control of your finances. This $2,200 is going to come through me and it's going to pay for the expenses. And you're going to have your own little budget and it's not going to be much. There's going to be no spending in your future. It's going to be survival because this is the life that you set up.

And so she's under your house. She's under your rules. Yeah, but in no way, shape or form do you try to help her with her debt. Her debt will die with her, if I'm correct, George. And so don't you get sucked into that. Don't help her pay off her debt. No, not at all. You're a good mom, Allie, and you keep focusing on you getting financially healthy for you

and your family. Let's go to Bill in Phoenix, Arizona. Bill, how can we help you today? Hi, thanks for taking my call. My question is this, whether I should gift or loan or not provide any money at all to help my 33-year- old son and his family buy a house. They're planning to move. I don't have problems with that. They are

in an existing house, but where they move to they're going to have to buy another house. House prices are a little bit higher and he has asked whether I'd be willing to contribute money to either increase his down payment that would lower his mortgage amount so it'd be a little bit more comfortable for him to to afford. He's never given me an exact amount he's floating the idea of anywhere from $50,000 to $100,000. I can afford it, but I'll be 69 in a few months and I'm going to retire at the end of this year. And so my gainful income will end, my gainful employment ends.

So this really comes down to whether it's a personal question, whether I should contribute any money at all. I don't view this as an emergency situation for him on it, but it would certainly make the transition for him much easier. Okay. Has he been responsible adult with money? Yes. He's been responsible. Has he ever

asked for money before from you? No, no. Okay, and if you had not called us and you weren't talking to us about it, you couldn't talk to anybody about it, what is your gut telling you to do? I want to help him out in some respects. I know that. I'm saying. But not at the level that he wants and my gut feeling is I'm not interested in loaning, becoming a lender to him. Good. Great. I don't, I think lending money to family members creates a whole set of problems. You're right, we would agree. So let me put you on the spot just for fun. Yeah. Okay?

Because there's no pressure here. But I love your answer, but my next question is, if again, you couldn't talk to us or anybody else, because we now know you said, I'm leaning towards giving him some money, what do you feel comfortable in your spirit, in your gut, giving him money? How much? Well, how much? Yeah. Well, you know, the thing is, I would

feel comfortable with 25. I would probably go maybe as high as 40, 45. Okay. So why, tell me why, tell me why you're comfortable with 25, but you're willing to go as high as 45. Probably because I love him. Right, but the reason is the 25 you feel like psychologically, you can absorb that gift. You give that and everything. Oh, clearly, yeah. Okay, I'm just digging around. I want George to jump in, but I just wanted to ask those questions because I appreciate you calling us and saying, what do you guys think? But George, I think this is a personal decision, and Bill's a very, very wise person, and seems like the son is very responsible.

He's never asked for money before. I'll add this, and then then I wanna get George's take. George, part of me thinks that the son could wait. There's always a better option. And I know that as a son, I would only go to ask my dad for money in this situation if it was the last resort. That's me personally.

That's not casting, you know, aspersions on Bill's son here, but that's just where I fall. What are you hearing? What do you need to know? I think Bill is asking all the right questions. He's giving the right answers. The questions I have are more on the son side, as what is causing the urgency for a house right now that they can't afford? Well, you know what? There really isn't any urgency. I mean he's he's Accepted a new job increase in pay

But they want to move out of the Phoenix area. They're going to be moving up to a cooler climate and And I'm all for that I've never held any my kids back if that's where they want to go You know, so be it. It's just that, you know, where he's moving to that housing market is a little tighter, uh, and a little bit more expensive. He will have a house to sell in Phoenix and he has some equity. It's just that for his family and their growing size, they want, they need a bigger house.

But these are all choices that he's making and they're not really what I call an emergency. I've always been there for my family for emergency situations. Well, does he have any consumer debt right now? You know, I don't know that. But they're very fiscal. He and his wife are fiscally responsible. Okay. So they have an emergency fund of their own. So this is not you bailing him out. Yes, they do. Correct. So quick follow-up. My understanding that if he has a house in Phoenix, is he trying to hold on

to the house in Phoenix and then make the move? because if he's got equity in his current house in Phoenix, is that not enough equity to help them make a really nice down payment as they move up north? That's correct. He anticipates that he would probably have about 150,000, after paying office mortgage. He'd have a hundred and fifty thousand profit and he's got another twenty five thousand in savings so he can put a hundred and seventy five thousand dollars down. But he wants another fifty to a hundred. Yes, because he has an idea where he wants his mortgage to be

that would allow him to feel comfortable with that. It doesn't sound like you're 25. No, I'm 69. No, no, no, I know you're 69. I'm saying you're 25,000 you feel comfortable with. That's not a make or break. That's not gonna make that big of a difference. The 45,000. 50 to 100, sure, that's gonna move the needle for that mortgage program. I guess what I'm getting at is your max dollar that you stretch give, which is 45,000, even that's not gonna make that big of a thing. And so I think the son needs to wait

or needs to be patient there, or he needs to find another way is what I'm hearing. That's been my gut this whole time. This is less about you and how much you're gonna give and more about is this the wisest situation for him. Again, he's a grown man. He can do what he wants. And to that I would say give however much you feel comfortable giving and it's up to him what he does. And I see this as an early inheritance. Yes.

Yeah, go ahead. Yeah. And that is, you know, one thing that my wife and I were thinking about this morning is, and I don't know what the dollar amount would be, but we thought about, well, rather than increase, giving him money to increase his down payment, is to see if we can contribute money that he can buy down an interest rate. Yeah, it's generally not worth it to buy down the points. You're better off just giving him that money for the down payment at that point.

I know interest rates are high and it feels like a win. You can do, you know, break even analysis on all that and figure it out, but we found in our experience, it's just the numbers rarely work out. I see. So I would give what you're comfortable giving and I would also caution him to not overbuy and get starry-eyed with the kind of house that they're looking for. They might need to wait.

They might need to look at a different neighborhood. They might need to scale back on the type of home they were looking at. And Bill, I'll throw this out here. When Stacey and I moved our three kids here 11 years ago, we rented for two years. Just because we wanted to make sure that, because I felt like we were gonna be at Ramsey's Solutions

for a long time and that's proven to be true. And I wanted to make sure that we were planting in the right place within the Williamson County area. And so we rented for two years, it's not a bad play. Yeah, if he's getting a pay raise and he rents for a year or two and they continue saving up the down payment, and maybe you gift on top of that, I feel much better about the situation.

Can I ask what your net worth is or what's in the nest egg? My net worth is just below 2.3 million. Okay, and how much do you have that you could make liquid? Well, I don't want to make liquid. I mean, I would give him the money out of our high yield savings account. I don't want to be cashing in. Yeah, very on your actual investments.

That's a taxable event to me. How much do you have in cash? About 150. Okay. So this feels more emotional than it is financial. He could give more if he wanted to, but I think you... Yeah, but I don't know where your head's at, but... Okay, good, because I was going to say, I like how you answered.

You're pretty clear on that 25 to 45 range being, and I'd stick to that. Any more than that, he's going to get resentful, and I wouldn't do it. Yeah. All right, folks, we so much appreciate all of you who are part of this fun, fun tribe and listening and watching, however, and wherever you listen and watch. And we would love for you to share the show. It's how we grow, you know, the old algorithms. And we've got a great way for you to share it with some actual value.

How about the fact that we have our crack production team, they're amazing. They have put together an awesome Ramsey 101 playlist. So think about your fundamental financial class, the way we would teach it, if you will. And people say, you listen to this Ramsey show, what are you talking about? Hey, let me just share this with you. And you can share the link, which is at the top of the show notes, or you can open the Ramsey 101 playlist on YouTube, and you can text it, DM it, send it in a group chat. It's all super easy and clickable. And this is, again, all the basics.

What are the baby steps? How do you pay off debt using the debt snowball? How do you build an emergency fund? How much do we need in the emergency fund? All the basics for somebody who's not tied into all this and you really want them to begin to think through and use the principles that we teach. It's the Ramsey 101 playlist,

again, at the top of our YouTube channel, or you can click the link in the show notes. Annabelle is up in Austin, Texas. Annabelle, how can we help today? Hi, I am a baby baby baby because this is the very first month I've ever actually... Hey Annabelle, Annabelle, I'm so sorry to interrupt. You're coming through real, real fuzzy. Can you maybe move the phone a little bit closer to your mouth? Okay, okay. Is that better?

Um, we'll go with it. It's hard to hear you a little bit, but let's try it. Go ahead. All right. I really knew what this, um, I'm a baby. This is the very first month I'm actually having my credit card. So, all right. Uh, I'm going to put Annabelle on hold because I want to do her justice.

And I know that I'm having a hard time understanding her. I know her audience is as well. Let's go to Laura in Philadelphia. Laura, how can we help? Hey, I'm a single mom and I have three kids. My oldest is going into high school. I work in marketing and I've gotten laid off twice in the last five years.

Yeah, I have a job now. Okay, great. But I have a fully funded emergency fund and contribute 6% for my 401k. My question is, because my field is so volatile, should I switch babysits so that I pay off my house first rather than going to the 15% for retirement and working on college. Wow, so you're investing 6% now.

Is that all you can invest? Do you have any money beyond that? No. Okay, so that to me is the bigger issue because you have no debt other than your mortgage, correct? Right, yes. What's your mortgage payment every month? $2,000.

And what is your take-home pay every month? About $9,000. Okay, you have a great income. Now let's talk about this volatility, and I want Ken to speak into this. Marketing is not a volatile industry, so what is the industry that you're saying is volatile? Well, I work for private companies. There's a lot of churn, you know, I don't know. It's just there's always been a lot of churn

and I've seen like a lot of like- Are these like startup companies? What's behind this? I kind of work in the digital space for like digital marketing. Are you working for agencies? No, I've worked in-house at like a larger corporation and then I moved to a startup and I got laid off at both. Okay, well here's the deal.

I think I know what's going on and I love George's question. I think you're naturally a little bit gun shy and you're a little bit scared because you've been burned. Listen, first of all layoffs happen and that happens many times at really big companies because you know how they do. They staff up when the stock is good or profits are great, and then they let people go when the stock drops. And that sounds, by the way you're reacting, what happened to you on one of those situations.

The other situation is a startup. So to me, that's the risk. It's always a risk when you go to work for a startup. The reason they call them startups. So George, I'm gonna give it back to you because I think what's going on here is just a natural fear of getting burned again. Yeah.

And to simply answer your question, no, you shouldn't focus on paying off your house and skip investing. And it sounds like you couldn't even do that if you wanted to, because right now you're not investing 15%. And I'm confused because you have an amazing income. So what are your monthly expenses?

I've been stockpiling my emergency fund because I am terrified. So I have a- How much do you have? Like one year, I have a hundred thousand. What do you have a year of emergency fund for? Are you scared of another layoff where you're not gonna get a job for six to eight months? Yes, all caps. scared of another layoff where you're not gonna get a job for six to eight months? Yes. Yes.

All caps. Yes. And it's, so I am very high, like in my field. And so the jobs are so limited. And also because I'm a single mom, I want a remote job and those are so limited. So I'm trying to find like, it's just, it takes a very long process to get a job. But your job is stable now. there's no fear of layoffs? Yes.

No. No, but I've felt that before. Well, the longer you stay in this job, the more that fear will start to dissipate. Yeah. So that's the good news. But I would, you're good on the emergency fund. Let's move on and crank up that investing to 15%.

And then if you wanna throw some money into a 529 plan for each of the kids, I would do that. Set a goal, maybe it's 200 bucks a month for each kid. You can use investment calculators. You can work with a SmartVestor Pro. You can get in touch with one through our website and go, okay, how much will I need per kid based on their ages?

Or can I start to cashflow some of this? Can I talk to the kids about a college plan? Do they wanna go? Where do they wanna go? What degrees do they wanna pursue? I would start having that conversation with your high schooler now to develop a plan. And then beyond that, if you have money outside of that,

maybe with this take home pay, start chunking some toward the mortgage, extra toward the principal. Maybe you decide to do, hey, I'm gonna do a thousand bucks per month. I'm going to ratchet it up every year. If I get a raise, I'm going to ratchet it up. And then as the kids exit their college phase, you're going to have even more to throw at

the mortgage because you won't be cash flowing. And just a little bit more security if we could, Laura. I think you're probably way better off than you realize. I got a hunch. How much is your house? How much could you sell your house for and and how much do you owe on it? I owe $270 and I probably could sell it for $550. Perfect. I just wanted George to hear that information as well because I just

feel like you're way better off than you realize if for some reason you are to be laid off again. You got options with that house. You're not stuck. You know what I mean? And for that reason, you should be paying into your retirement the full 15% like George told you. And take care of the kids 529. You're gonna be okay. It's not like you're underwater with that house. Am I right, George? Does that make you feel anything? Well, your mortgage payment compared to your income

is astounding. I'm just, I'm amazed. You've done such a good job with this super high income, keeping your expenses very reasonable, staying away from debt. You have an overly funded emergency fund. And do you also have any, is there any child support or alimony that's tied to any of this? Yes, we get, we do split all the kids expenses 50-50.

Okay, great. So that does lower your expenses. So that's not part of your take home pay, it's just the expenses are shared. No. Yes. Okay, great. So you should have plenty of margin. No, I have them more. To move through the baby steps very quickly.

I think you're gonna end up paying this mortgage off faster than you think. I would set a goal that excites you, but is also realistic to where you go. Okay, I know that worst case, seven years from now this mortgage is paid off. What is a six month emergency fund? What's the amount if you do six months?

What is a six-month emergency fund? What's the amount if you do six months? Laura? I think it would be 65 times 6 is like my minimum expenses. This would be a fun challenge to Ken's point. What if you took six months and you threw the rest toward the mortgage? That's where I'm going. Or you really front load those college funds. Yeah. Because compound growth, if you would throw 50 grand into a bunch of 529 plans and let them ride for years, you're going to be okay for college. Yeah, I think that sounds good. Yeah, I'm in a new role and I just want to make sure

we're sailing. You're doing great. I think being a single parent, I'm just, you know, I'm by myself. When I lose a job, there's no other person helping me. Yeah, that security gland is flaring up extra hard. We totally understand. Great questions. Bravo, Mama Bear. You're amazing. You're crushing it.

All right, folks. Graduation has come and gone, I believe, just about everywhere now, right? We're late enough for the year, everybody's kind of walked through that. And we've got a lot of students, whether on the high school level or the college level, that are moving on to the next phase of life. And it's really intimidating, whether it's picking out the major that you think is gonna get you the professional direction that you wanna go, or it's all right, I've picked all that, now I'm out of college and I gotta find a job.

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as you tried to find yourself. Yeah, I never did. All I found was skinny jeans. Yeah, well, and the bomber jackets. That's true. Don't forget. Cindy's up in Houston, Texas. Cindy, how can we help? Hey there. So I'm calling. I am just starting to budget for the first time in my life. But I was diagnosed with a medical problem that could potentially put me out of work for an extended period of time. So my question is, would you recommend that I go ahead and continue

paying off all my medical debt or would it be wiser in my situation to get my three to six months expense emergency fund first and then start putting money toward my medical debt? How much medical debt do you have? Best I can figure around 100,000. Texas doesn't report it to the credit bureaus. So it's kind of, yeah. Bless your heart.

What was the situation that got you in 100,000 of medical debt? I had two widow maker heart attacks within six days of each other. Oh my god. And was diagnosed with heart failure at the age of 44. Cindy, you're a miracle. I'm glad you're still with us. Me too. Are you working full time right now? I have a full time job but I have had to cut my hours back to part time right now.

What are you making? Bring in about $275 a week after taxes and insurance. Yeah, so what happened with health insurance that you were on the hook for a hundred grand? Because I didn't have health insurance when all of this initially happened. Oh my gosh. And so you've had to cut back, this current cutback is because of this new physical situation. That's correct. And is that going to be ongoing?

Is it chronic to where this is all you can work? It's chronic. This is pretty much all I can work, but there's a very good possibility that this may have to get scaled back some off and on indefinitely. I mean, you're on the poverty line, so there's no way you're going to pay back these medical bills at this rate. No. My husband does work full time. Okay, what does he make?

Thank God. He brings home about 800 a week. Okay. I mean, we're probably still close to the poverty line together, but... You're making $1100, he's making $3200. So that puts it at $4,300 take home, which puts you guys at about $50K for the year. So that's, I mean, you can live off of that, but you have $100,000 in medical debt alone.

Are there other debts that are floating around out there in either you or your husband's names? The only other debt that we have is about $5,000. $3,500 of that is personal loans to my father and his father. The rest of it is outstanding credit card. Both of our vehicles are paid for, so the mortgage is the only open loan that we have. Okay.

Have you communicated with the hospital that's holding these bills and explained that you didn't have insurance, that you wanna do self-pay and see if they'll bring down the total bill? Have you tried to negotiate that? I've put in, I have submitted a request. I have not heard back yet because like I said,

I've never done a budget in my life Never Never been taught how so their every dollar budget has is your husband on board with this is he going? Hey, we got her. Okay. So you guys are both ready for some life change Yeah, definitely. Okay. I wouldn't jump to just building the emergency fund, what you can do. You have good health insurance now that's covering you? I do for the time being. You know, if something happens with my job

then I'm out and I've been told I'll never get private health insurance. And he doesn't have insurance through his employer? He does. It's ridiculously expensive. And nobody at his company really wants me on their insurance. It's a small company. And their rates are based off of their health care. It'll drive their premiums up for everyone. Exactly.

Yeah, because it's a group plan. OK. Well, what you can do is create a sinking fund in your budget. And so what that looks like is you would have a line item that says medical, and you could put $400 every month into that line item and put that in savings. And that way at the end of the year, you have $5,000. And so you kind of have an ongoing little medical fund to cover your ongoing care that's

needed. But what I don't want you to do is just ignore the debts and just stack up money for who knows what. You have good insurance now, the damage is done, we'll deal with that. Let's get an itemized bill from the hospital. Let's work with their finance department to say, listen, we're not doing well financially.

Do you have any hardship programs that could lower this bill for me or forgive this bill and fight that and see what you can do to get rid of that medical debt. And if you do that, you've cleaned up the mess. And now let's cut the credit cards up. Let's not use those anymore. Let's stick to the budget. Then we can begin building the emergency fund.

Okay. Have you made payments on the medical debts? I have not at this point, no. To be honest with you, until I started looking at the budget, I didn't think we really had the money to even pay all of our bills, but we do. Yeah, you got to cover your bills first, so don't give them a dime until you've covered food, utilities, housing, transportation, and insurance costs. Okay. You guys come first. Yeah, my biggest fear was, you know, if something happens and I end up not being able to work at all whatsoever, you know,

I know I can apply for disability, but in the interim I don't get paid. And that's what terrifies me. Yeah, that's a scary place to be. I'm sorry you had to learn that lesson the hardest way possible with two widow makers within six days of each other.

Can't imagine. I don't pull out the pulpit very much, but I'm going to pull it out here for a second. It is wrong on every level. I'm trying to contain my sheer anger on behalf of Cindy and the Cindy's of this world. The cost of healthcare in this company has absolutely gone bananas. It's wrong. It is out of control. And we have no leadership in this country.

And I'm talking everybody. So I'm going to just piss off everybody. Because I don't care what party you subscribe to. I don't care who you think is the political savior. There is a lack of leadership everywhere in DC, there's a lack of leadership in the governor's mansions in this country, when we can't see how this kind of stuff is breaking real Americans. And insurance companies ought to be ashamed of

themselves, politicians ought to be ashamed of themselves, the healthcare industry ought to be ashamed of themselves. This is ridiculous and I'm all for free markets. I'm still a free market guy, you know that George, but this is wrong. I mean we know medical bills are one of the leading causes of bankruptcy. It's ridiculous. These insurance companies are making plenty of money and quite frankly I'm sick and tired of it. We wonder why there's so much hate and so much outrage towards insurance companies and politicians because of this stuff right here.

You got lobbyists lining Congress' pockets from the healthcare industry. It's not okay. Wishing you the best, Cindy. Hope we can get this cleared up. This is The Ramsey Show where America hangs out to talk about their money, their profession, and their relationships. Thrilled to have you with us, 888-825-5225 is the phone number, 888-825-5225. Alongside George Camel, I'm Ken Coleman, thrilled to be with him as well, always fun. He's always a quip away from making me laugh pretty hard. That's the goal. That's all I can bring to the table. He's got a fresh haircut so it looks like the

first day of school for George. I got my backpack. That's your lunchbox? Yep. Mom packed it good. All right, you get the oranges? No, Dunkaroos though. That's a win. Maybe a Lunchable. Dunkaroos for the win. I have no idea what you're talking about but I'll learn more about it. Gosh, you're older than I thought. Your age is showing, Ken. I know. Never heard of a Dunkaroo before in my life. Mary is up in Charlotte, North Carolina. Mary, how can we help?

Hi. I have a bit of a conundrum. I have taken over handling our finances from my husband. I just say he got into the sovereign citizen thing about seven years ago. I asked him not to make any decisions, but he did and didn't tell me. Tell me what, tell us about sovereign citizen thing. To the best of your knowledge, what is it? The best of my knowledge is it's a group of people who don't believe that our government

is actually a government, that when Congress let out in the early 1900s, that the same people didn't come back in and they passed laws around our taxes and everything else, and that it's unconstitutional, and that when we were born, our social security number is used as collateral by the government. And so we have billions and billions and billions of dollars in an account somewhere,

and our signature can pay off debt. Just our signature. We don't have to pay back loans. We don't have to pay our mortgage. We don't have to pay anything. Cool. That's a fantastic idea. And you seem to know a lot about this. Like you've just heard your hubs wane on and on and on about this, it sounds like. Yeah, not just that, but in our arguments of me talking about being good stewards and having good character.

And when we say we're gonna pay something back and we sign it, that because we said it and we signed it that we need to do it and right so this he yeah whoo so this has put you guys in a spot I'm guessing extreme spot what tell us what's what's what hole are you in well like I said that's what he felt about the government so he stopped paying our taxes, he stopped paying our mortgage and our car loans, and we had a home loan that we got years ago. And I stopped paying all of it. So when I took over, I took over last year, and a couple of months in, one of the elders in my church gave me a number for a

company to help me work on the back taxes. And so now I have that extra bill and I'll just give you some numbers. Taxes are over half a million, including all the fees. The mortgage, they tried to close on the mortgage. They tried to foreclose twice, the sheriff showed up. And like I said, I didn't know about any of this. I found out when the sheriff came and said, here's your foreclosure papers, you need to be in court next week. And then I told my husband he needed to pay it, so he got us caught up. And then they repossessed my car. And so I told him he needed to pay it and I got my car back. and then he didn't pay for another seven months and they came out with foreclosure papers again and I told him that I needed to be like them.

Yeah, this is interesting to me. So he's... forget the conspiracy stuff that he's all in and all this kind of stuff, but he's holding the money. He's not spending it. Sounds like. Um, he, he did the first time the second time. So he works for himself. And we only, he's a contractor building homes and he, uh, no, it's commercial work and it's very specialized and he makes really good money. Okay. So my point is, is like, he, he's commercial work and it's very specialized and he makes really good money. Okay, so my point is, is like he's not spending this money.

He just doesn't want to give it to the government or to the mortgage company or anything else. But it sounds like every time they come threatening, he goes out in the backyard, digs up a coffee can and provides the money. Is that what I'm hearing? Not really. Well, you just said he paid the car. He paid the... The first time.

The first time he did that with the mortgage. The second time with the mortgage, we lucked out that he got paid a little extra that month and so that went to pay that back mortgage. And then with the car, I don't know what he did. I think he talked him into putting everything towards the end of the loan to get us caught up. Oh gosh, so there's a giant balloon payment at the end. Yeah, but I-

So is he now getting out of the finances and he's not doing any of this nonsense and he's now letting you pay things on time? He's agreed to let me do it. He doesn't agree with me. Well, I don't care about that part. Have you told him that you prefer to not be homeless? That it's your American right?

To want to have shelter? Okay, what does he think about that? This guy doesn't seem like he cares about providing for you. Seems like he's more into his little conspiracy group. Yeah, well, you know, we said the same thing about, you know, he says he doesn't care about money and I said to him, so why don't you just give it to the people you said you'd give it to? You know, why are you keeping it?

But he's not really keeping it either. He does like to spend and we have no savings. Do you guys have one joint account or does he have a separate account that he spends from? Well, the state came after him and took money out of the account, about 25 grand, which was every penny that we had. So he changed banks. They did it again, so he changed banks again.

So what I did when I hired that company is he didn't like keeping receipts. So I found all of the banks that we had for those years, and I've been systematically going through the bank statements to itemize the sentence company so we can at least have some kind of deductions on that. And I still have three years left to do of all of that, and I have no idea what I heard since yet. Have you pulled a credit report for both of you? Yes.

Okay, what's the total damage? Total that we owe? Yeah. I don't know the total yet. I know we still owe about 170 on our home. Our home is valued now around between five and 600. I'm not exactly sure because I haven't had it done. We've been in our home for 20 years. Okay.

And you owe $500,000 to the IRS. And what about these cars? There's about $50,000 on the cars. There's about $20,000 on a home loan. About $65, thousand in student debt. Credit cards? We had no credit cards until a couple weeks ago. My dad told me that he pays his house bills with a credit card and he just goes and pays

off the bill right then so that he can earn cash back. And so I thought that might be a good idea for me. It's a terrible idea. Yeah. OK. Is anyone in your life financially responsible? My dad is. He has no debt. No, he's not.

If you pay the mortgage with a credit card, you're incurring an extra fee, which negates any cashback you could ever want. So, Mary, I don't know that we can help you in a two-minute call. This is a nightmare, and I'm scared you're going to go down with this guy, and you you're both gonna be in prison if you keep this up Yeah, this is a this is a marriage situation where you've got to put a stop to this with him

He's putting you in such a reckless situation at this point. You need to protect yourself. Yeah, I would separate accounts Are you working full-time? I Am NOT I'm not able to Are you on disability? No, I was a stay at home mom for 25 years. All right, tell you what. And I was working at my church last year. Okay, so Mary, hang on.

And because of all of this, I lost my... Mary, hang on. We've got to do a quick commercial break. We'll come back and try to help you. All right, so we've been talking to Mary and her husband has long been a member of a group called Sovereign Citizens. And these fine folks don't believe that anybody should pay taxes. By the way, I would like to point out, nobody,

I mean nobody hates taxes more than me, okay? But it's the law. Even Jesus took the subject on in the Bible. That's true. Give unto Caesar what is Caesar. So, bless her heart. Mary is really under it. Can I go through the numbers to remind people? Let's go through the numbers. Set it up where Mary's at. All right, Mary, you back with us? Yes, I'm here. Okay, so I heard you have half a million dollars in back taxes to the IRS. You have $50,000 in car loans, $20,000 in a home equity loan, $65000 dollars in student loans, and then you got 170 left

on the mortgage and the house is worth about five or six hundred. And we also, my husband was in the hospital last year for an extended period of time, so we also have about 60, 70,000 dollars in medical debt. Okay, so that could- And I'm supposed to be having surgery coming up, so I'm about to cancel it. Oh, boy, do you guys have insurance? Do you know what it's gonna cost you? Well, he didn't wanna buy insurance either,

so I just got insurance in April. You guys don't have health insurance? We didn't, but we do now, but it won't pay for anything until next year on the date that I signed. Oh my goodness. What's the surgery for? A total knee replacement. Oh my gosh. And you told us that you can't work.

I've been trying to work. I was working. I'm a worship leader, and so I was at my church, and I was struggling, and I went to my pastor with with this and he talked with the elders and deacons and I did too and I ended up losing my position out of safety for the church. What does that mean, safety? Was the church in harm's way? Well, if I got arrested because of all of this, he would. So even they see the writing on the wall. Oh yes, and they were talking with him too. Yes. So even they see the writing on the wall. Oh, yes.

And they were talking with him too. I told him I required him to start talking with an elder or find someone who's a mentor who knows the word that he could talk to about these things that he believes. And he did finally agree to go to counseling with me, but he's not talking to anybody. He doesn't agree with them. He thinks they all held him accountable in a meeting. He even said, he doesn't believe this, but he said that he thought I was being unfaithful

because I didn't agree with him and that he had the right to divorce me, according to what Paul said. What is keeping you guys together at this point? Well, I know he loves me and I know that he's working at it. And I do love him. We've been together for 30 years. Um, and, okay, but none of that actually shows that he loves you. Yeah. I don't see a guy who loves you.

If they came and repoed my wife's car, put me on the street and made me homeless. Cause my because my wife said, I don't want to pay bills. I don't know how that's love. Love requires action. Yeah. Mary, I didn't plan to- I could take care of the finances. So he said I'll earn it and you can take care of it.

Well, but if he's spending it, Mary, you already said that he's been spending it. He needs to lose access to any money in this household. Well, at this point, he's not spending because I'm controlling the finances, and he's agreed to ask me before he buys anything, but he wouldn't be able to even if he wanted to because of the way our debt is now. Right.

Yeah, you guys can't make a minimum payment, so I mean- Oh, he's got $30,000 in contract labor. That's another debt. He should not be running his own business. Right. What does he make? Close to $300 a year. Okay, so there's some good news in all of this mess.

He's got a great shovel that if you take control of, we can clean this mess up. And if I were you guys, can I just throw out a plan and see how you like it? Yes. The number one debt to focus on right now is that IRS debt. Pay these back taxes.

So that's what I would focus on first, followed by all this consumer debt. I wouldn't worry about the mortgage right now. In fact, I would consider selling the house and renting to clean up this mess faster. Really? Yes. Because you have over $200,000 in consumer debt alone,

you have $500,000 to the IRS, and then you have the $170,000 mortgage. So we're approaching a million dollars in debt. Yeah. And Mary, they're not, the IRS is not gonna play around. This guy has already put you guys in a very precarious situation. I think the church was wrong to let you go, but the church was scared out of their mind.

And honestly, I'm scared for you. And one more conspiracy Facebook post that your husband clicks on, and he goes dark on all this again again and you're going down with him. And this guy's gone to counseling. I told him I would leave him if he did that. You what? I told him I would leave if he did that. Yeah, but it's too late. If he takes you down with him and then you go, well, that's the final straw. Now's the time to leave him until he changes. straw, now's the time to leave him until he changes. He has been confronted by pastoral staff, he's been confronted by a counselor, and when he's confronted, he comes up with some crazy idea

that you're cheating on him. You're the best woman in the world. I think most women would have long since left this clown. And I know you love him and I'm not trying to be derogatory but I'm telling you as a stranger who you called to ask my opinion this is beyond bananas. You're in an unsafe situation. You are very unsafe and he can say he loves you but this is not the act of love. No I know and that's why I called you because I don't want to go to jail but I didn't know he was doing this. I know you didn't and at this point I think you can prove that you didn't and I love that you have control of the finances

but I would be completely making myself independent. George, listen Mary in the next few minutes I want you to pay attention to what George says because you need to get independent of your husband right now. Financially first, and I would put the ultimatum down that this dude does massive life change and proves it to you in some very specific ways before you ever even talk to this guy again. That's how serious I think this is. George, I want her to protect herself financially. What would you do if she was your mom? What would you do? I would get your name off of anything he's connected to and make sure that everything is under your control

and that he can cause no further damage. I would freeze all of his credit so that he can't go into debt even if he wanted to behind your back. You can freeze his credit with all three credit bureaus. And I'm gonna gift you a session with a financial coach because the depth of your situation is far beyond what we can cover on a Ramsey Show call.

And I wanna make sure that we can serve you well. We wanna help. And help you take the right next step. So we're gonna gift that to you. It's free, it's on us to get our financial coaching call with someone to walk you through this for what your specific area is. There's a lot of logistics here to walk through. But

I do think that it's probably wise for you guys to sell this house and maybe you go live on your own and rent somewhere. I agree. I don't know what that looks like financially for you with his income and you not having one. That's going to be difficult. But cleaning up the IRS debt is a one. Then I would do the debt snowball for the rest of these debts, focus on the smallest balances first, knock them out and freeing up a payment along the way. And you'll knock out the mortgage by selling the house and it'll probably leave you with about 300,000 in profits that you can use to knock out over half of this IRS debt.

Yeah, I think they already- I listen, I go to your dad, I go to some family right now. You need to be around some safe people. I'd probably talk to an attorney and figure out what your rights are and if you're the quote innocent spouse in the situation, will you be absolved of whatever crimes he's committed? I don't know. Yeah. Is that who I would talk to about getting my name off of things? Well, the name,

your name off of things would be refinancing. If your name is on there, I don't know that they'll just remove your name, but you can contact every lender that's out there that has his name on it and see if you can get out of it and say, listen, things that you weren't a part of, if he went and took any of these debts out behind your back, I don't know. There's so much here to unpack. I'm so sorry you're going through this. And right now, I'm more concerned about your safety than anything else right now. Yeah. Hang on the line, Mary. We're going to get you connected to a financial coach that can walk with you on this. And I'm so, so sorry, but you got to fight for you right

now with everything you got to fight for you right now with everything you got. All right time for our Ramsey Show question of the day which is brought to you by Why ReFi. If you've got defaulted private student loans, let's be real, they don't go away on their own. But our friends at Why ReFi will help you explore a low fixed rate loan based on your unique circumstances. Go to yreify.com slash Ramsey today. That's y-r-e-f-y dot com slash Ramsey. It may not be available in all states. Today's question comes from Robert in the Baby Steps community. When buying something expensive, how do you decide whether you use money from your brokerage account or savings account? We are debt-free except our house.

We want stuff now, but also want compound interest to work so later I can buy stuff like cars and it's like buying a biscuit. Okay, interesting question. So he's saying, should I- Buy a biscuit? Should I sell funds

for my non-retirement investment accounts in order to cover these high expense things or should I just use my savings account? My hot take is that all savings, all investing should have a goal. So you should separate it out. What were you investing in that brokerage account for? Was it for this exact thing? If so, don't feel bad cashing it out and paying whatever taxes owed on that. And if you have money beyond your emergency fund saved up for these things, don't feel bad using your savings for that. And if you have money beyond your emergency fund, saved up for these things, don't feel bad using your savings for that if you had saved for that specific purchase. So I

like to actually create different savings accounts and label them properly. So let's say we're going to upgrade the car. Well, let's have a upgraded car savings account where we put money every single month, 500 bucks a month. 12 months later, you got six grand in there. Two years later, you got 12 grand, et cetera. So that way you know exactly what you're saving for. So the advice here is use savings if you can. I'm with you, I want compound interest work

as long as possible. But again, if the brokerage account existed to save up for that, then go for it. But investing for anything should be a long-term play, like five plus years. So if you're saving for a car three, four years from now, I would not invest that money. I would park it in a high-yield savings account, and that way you're not worried about what the market's doing. Is it up or is it down? Did I lose money? Did I make money? And that's the simplest way to live your life, is have a goal for everything.

And by the way, the best way to be able to do the advice that you just gave is a budget. Absolutely. And I do want to point out all this month, we've got every dollar free webinar trainings. These are free, kick the tires, how to use every dollar, questions that you've got. It's phenomenal. Thousands of people signing up.

You can sign up for free, everydollar.com slash webinar, everydollar.com slash webinar. everydollar.com slash webinar. All right, Audra is up in Baltimore, Maryland. Audra, how can we help? Hi, thanks for taking my call. I'm calling today because I'm really struggling to decide on whether I should kind of splurge on an upcoming wedding, it's gonna be a second marriage

for me, or if I should not do that and maybe rebuild my emergency fund, my last marriage left me like financially, I won't say devastated, but pretty close to. And I feel like I'm really stuck emotionally, like I don't want my ex to take this away from me, if that makes sense. What do you mean, take what away from you? He's already taken so much from me. I get that, but what else would he take from you?

The wedding, like not being able to do that with my Beyonce now who, you know. I gotcha. Yeah, there's a love in my life, he's the type of person that just inspires you to be a better person, you know, is the love of my life. He's the type of person that just inspires you to be a better person, you know? How much? Do you have any debt right now? Just a house, but no cards. I think my fiance, he has his car,

probably about 25 on it. How much do you have in savings total? No emergency, I have no liquid savings right now. All I have is my IRA was left untouched and there's about a hundred in there. Okay, well I'm, you definitely need some emergency savings right now because you're one emergency away from going back into debt, which might mean we need to scale back on this wedding. Do you have a date already planned? Have you already booked things?

Signed contracts? Yeah, we were hoping to do it in April. I did put down a $200 deposit on the venue, but nothing set in stone. It could be reversed if we needed to do that. And when you said you want to spend on this wedding, what were you thinking you were going to spend? Probably between probably around $20,000. And that's coming out of your pocket, or are we splitting this with the fiance? It would be split.

We would try to do it together. But what I'm considering doing is we make a fairly good amount of money. If we get our spending in check, I think we could afford it. And I think about prioritizing that and keeping, I can get a HELOC for $140,000 and use it as an emergency. You can't afford it if it takes a HELOC to do it. No.

Audra, that is debt that puts you at risk and it puts your home at risk. And it moves you backwards financially. OK, please don't do the HELOC. So here's the deal. Whatever, however much money you have is how much we can spend on this wedding. And so if you're going to spend 10K, he's going to spend 10K. That becomes the savings goal.

So the question becomes, can we save 10K in time for this wedding to pay for all the bills? Can you? Um, I'm not sure. Well, it's simple math. Wait a second. What's your income? Um, so we actually, it's our spending. It's out of control. No, no, no. There's no we yet. You guys aren't married. You shouldn't be talking about we.

Are you guys living together? Are you shouldn't be talking about we Do you guys living together you splitting bills? What are we dealing with here? We are living together. We just moved in together not too long ago. Well, then what's the rush on the wedding? I'm not trying to be mr. Traditional but I mean if we're living together now we can really postpone the wedding and do this thing the way you want to do It you've already decided to live together, but my... Yeah, well we're excited, but the other thing... I'm self-employed, and a big benefit of this was I pay out the wazoo for my own health insurance. It's close to... it's seven hundred and like sixty dollars a month, just my premium. And if I got one his health insurance, we would save hundreds

of dollars a month. Well, you gotta choose, sweetheart. You want the big wedding, then you want the insurance discount. So the main reason to get married sooner is to jump on his insurance? I mean, then just go to the courthouse tonight. Well, no, and that's not the main reason.

It is a factor. The main reason, we're just really excited. But to Ken's point, why not go to the courthouse and save up for the big party 10 months from now? Do it later. Yeah, you could do a celebration. I tried, yeah, the courthouse wedding, we both did that with our first weddings.

To give you context, I was like homeless. I was homeless when I first got married, my first marriage. And I got married in like a- It doesn't matter. You told me this guy's different, didn't you? And I just wanted something different. The courthouse is not doesn't matter. You told me this guy's different, didn't you? And I just wanted something different. The courthouse is not the factor here.

You told me this guy's different, so this marriage is going to be different, right? That's true. You want everything, but you can't afford anything. That's what we're hearing. So you got to choose. And what is your monthly income? My monthly income is about $7,000. That's a great income.

That's great. So you can get your emergency fund up, and then if you really hustle, you guys can cash flow this wedding. When George asked you, could you come up with $10,000 between now and next April? That's $1,000 a month. You were like, I don't think so. You make $7,000. Could you put away, before you did anything else, put away $1,000 of the seven into a

savings account? Could you auto-transfer it and pretend like it never existed? Yes, I could. Okay. That means by April, you would have $10,000 in that one account. Okay. There's your part. Could you take another thousand and put it in a say another savings account for your emergency fund

Could you live off of five thousand? I? Could most months I saw I have my own business system months are better than others so it can be Very a little bit So then okay, but what are your expenses you told me that you have a spending problem that he does too. Oh So then, so then that means... Okay, but what are your expenses? You told me that you have a spending problem that he does too. Oh yeah, um... So let's prioritize.

My bills... What's more important? My bills are about $4,300 a month. $4,300. Including like my mortgage. So if life went perfectly and you followed the plan and you made seven grand, you would have an extra $2,700 you could throw toward your goals. Yes.

Okay. You know what that looks like? It looks like $32,000 that you could have saved up for this wedding and your emergency fund in a year. So that would give me some great fire to go, you know what, I never want to be homeless again. I don't want to be in the situation again. I'm willing to cut my spending to save up for the things that now matter to me. And that is my emergency fund to give me some peace of mind to never go into debt again. That's for this wedding. And that's what you guys are gonna have to prioritize. And I don't know that we can get him on board, but I hope we can get you on board at the very least. Well, after the last few calls, I definitely think we need to head to the Bible. Yeah, we could use a little Jesus right now. Jesus, take the wheel.

I'm telling you. Our scripture of the day, Philippians 1.27, whatever happens, conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ. Then, whether I come and see you or only hear about you in my absence, I will know that you stand firm in the one Spirit, striving together as one for the faith of the gospel." Our quote of the day, Kevin Hassett. Do you know who this is? Never heard of him.

Me either. Economists have the same occupational hazard as baseball managers and football coaches. Every person on the street knows their job better than they do." Oh wow. Wow. He's an economist. Kevin was angry when he said that. Actually I'm gonna I'm gonna do something I never do. I'm gonna take issue with the quote of the day. You're gonna take umbrage? I'm gonna take umbrage. This guy's not even here to defend himself. I do believe half the quote is right. I do believe the average American probably knows more about the economy than an economist. That part I agree with. I don't think as a big-time

football fan, I don't think most fans have any idea about what a football coach knows. And this is the problem with fans. That's all I wanna say. I think Kevin misses it. That's what's wrong with fans. They sit in the stands and they think they know more. And I understand they get mad at their coach and I've been mad at my coaches before. But we don't know what we're talking about.

I just wanna point that out. I appreciate that. For people like you, George, who don't know what sports are, and I just wanna make sure you don't judge football coaches. My brain only has capacity for so much so to memorize like stats and coaches and players and the personal lives and what's going on is insane. You don't have to see that just good you're see that's not what being a fan is. Oh I've met

fans. I know you have but you don't actually watch sports. Here's my hack though when someone talks about sports I can fake it and they think I know everything I just go yeah we got to see how the coaching is this season. That's Here's my hack though, when someone talks about sports, I can fake it and they think I know everything. I just go, yeah, we gotta see how the coaching is this season. That's it. That gets me out of so many conversations. I go, yeah, he's right. He's right. It's all about the coaching. Oh, man. George Campbell. I gotta take you to a sporting event.

I'd love to go with you. No one ever takes me. They say they will. You know what we'll do? We'll collab on our YouTube channels. It'll be called Ken Takes George to a sporting event. I've been to a lot of Nashville events, you know, but not with me. Soccer. I know. Not into that. You need to, oh, I love soccer, but you need to go with me so that I know you're paying attention and You know what's going on. You'll actually coach me through the experience. 100 percent. Make sure that you get the full experience. Otherwise, you're just there eating popcorn and checking your Instagram. I'm just watching the big screen, seeing the sponsors,

watching people stuff their face with food they shouldn't be eating. It's great. It's the people watching for me is the best part. Let's go to Josh in Colorado Springs. Josh, how can we help? Hey, so I am on the fence about upgrading my current car to my dream car and giving my wife my current car. And I'm feeling some doubt and guilt about it. You have come to the right place. I think I was put on the planet to help people decide these things. This very issue is a favorite issue of mine. As specific as possible.

But yeah, that's right. What is this dream car? What is the dream car and how much will it cost? possible. But yeah, that's what is this dream car and how much will it cost? Well, the dream car currently is a Audi RS6 Avant. Yeah, how much is that gonna set you back? So total out-of-pocket will be around 70,000 because of trading and whatnot. Okay, and how do you plan to pay for it? So that's where it gets a little tricky as far as how we could. Here we go. All right. Give us the tricks. So my wife would prefer savings to be used. I don't want to touch any of our savings or any other money we have.

I would rather take a loan out and pay it off in 16, 18 months. And when I said that to her, she says, well, why don't we just say for it? The problem is, um, I'm onto this car now because my other cars have gone out of production that I dreamed of getting and their prices have skyrocketed. One of them was 120,000 new, now is selling for a quarter million new because they don't make it. And so as these cars get harder and harder to get the price skyrockets. What are you driving now? I drive a 2016 Land Cruiser. And what's it worth? I will get about 45, 54. But you're saying you're gonna give that to your wife?

Yes. Okay, so you wouldn't trade it in? Correct. Which means you're gonna pay the full cost. Oh, her car, sorry, yeah. So her car would get me 36, I think, is what we got on count. What is she driving?

She's driving a, what's it called? A Highlander. Do you owe anything on that? We don't owe anything on any other cars. Our only debts are our mortgage and then student loans, but we are on the public service loan forgiveness track. How familiar are you with our show? Pretty familiar.

I listen to you guys pretty often. And you called us with student loan debt. I know. And want to know our opinion on you financing a dream car. I'm just curious if you missed those episodes. Because I'm on the loan forgiveness route, that's the only reason I... How many years in are you on it? We have less than two years left before forgiveness.

And what's the balance of the loans? Total right around 250,000. Wow. But we're paying about 3,000 a month. You really think that they're gonna forgive those loans? All my colleagues have gotten theirs forgiven. Is this the PSLF or a different one? PSLF. Okay. Is that a good chance of happening, George? I'm a little skeptical. I mean, if you follow it by the book and don't screw anything up and you, you know,

did not. I got countless callings here. Josh is counting on it. Josh is going to the bank on it. I mean, people have been successful with it and I'm happy for them. I just, I would have a backup plan too. I don't know that now is the time to be

purchasing the dream car with this debt hanging around your head still. How much money do you guys have in savings right now, beyond your emergency fund? Beyond emergency fund and obviously all the retirements being maxed out yearly on both ends, right around 175. Okay, and why such a high savings account? Honestly, we do a house renovation, we refill that account, and then we just kind of do

we put it in the market, oh, market's going to crash, oh, let's, I don't know, just hesitation, I guess, to move it. How often do you go with your wife's point of view? Out of 10. How many times out of 10? Well, 10. Great! Because I think you ought to do it again. You've got the cash. If you really want this car, if it's really that big of a dream, you've got the cash for it. And I would rather you feel the pain of liquidating that savings account because that's what's really happening with this car.

Spreading it out over 16 months will make you emotionally feel better, but it's going to put you guys in a bind. You're paying interest. There's a chance you're underwater on it in case you need to get rid of it. And doing it with a loan is only going to add resentment on your wife's side and you're going to feel guilty every time you get in that driver's seat. I agree. I mean, don't you want to take her out on a date in that thing and not get the stink

eye or at least the side eye? Well This would be the first purchase I would make That's been like we live in this. That's a yes or no. That's a yes or no question You sound like a politician on a Sunday morning show Yeah, that would be great I know bro, I'm trying to help you here, man. By the way, your wife's right. George and I are with your wife.

What is your household income? Gross, typically right around 900 this year, probably closer to 750 just because I'm- Oh, good Lord. This is ridiculous. Amazing. Why are we even having this conversation when you make that kind of money? You just made everybody that's listening and watching this show in the lobby mad That's stupid

Nobody's got any empathy for you you make crazy money pay cash for that and I got to tell you for somebody who took out loans and paid mine off I Don't have such a great feeling about the way you're treating your loans with the kind of income you got. I'm just going to tell you that. Pay your loans? Yes! Pay your freaking loans off! You make nine hundred thousand dollars! You're going to ask the government to forgive that? Here's the thing, this could have been gone years ago. I don't like it. It's been dragging on. But yeah, get the car.

I'm old school, I think the wife should be driving the nicer car. That's just my take. Oh, now we're really piling on this poor guy. He's a car guy. Do what you want. Okay, really quick. Put you on the spot. You don't have to answer. You make that kind of money, you should pay your student loans back. Yes or no? Yes. I should have done it seven years ago. Moved on with your life. This is The Ramsey Show.