The Ramsey Show - App - It’s Not a Math Problem, It’s a Behavior Problem (Hour 3)

Episode Date: July 18, 2022

Dave Ramsey & Ken Coleman discuss: Paying a price to get rid of your debt, Getting ahead on student loans, Declining a job offer after having originally accepting it. Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. We help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. We're glad you're here. Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, number one best-selling author, is my co-host today as we talk about your life, your career, your money,

your relationships. The phone number is 888-825-5225. Stacey's in Austin, Texas. Hi, Stacey. How are you? Hi. Can you all hear me okay? Sure. What's up? Great. Thanks so much for taking my call. I really enjoy listening to both of you. I feel like I'm having a fangirl moment. Okay. So the simple question is we had a wake-up call in July, or actually June, and we've tallied everything and we've started.

We're on baby step two. It is just a really daunting number. Without our mortgage, we own a home. Without our mortgage, we have $170,000 in debt. That's you name it, mostly credit cards and student loans and some car payments. And, um, how much do you owe on your cars? Uh, I owe 15,000 on mine. My monthly payment is two 60. My husband owes 31,000 on his and his car payment is 600. I recently sold a much bigger, more expensive car and downsized, but was afraid to pay all cash for it. Um, so I cut my money.

Oh, that was before you had the wake up call. Well, it's kind of the beginning of it. And then it's a family car. We have a four-year-old son, and I just was like, gosh, we put the most miles on my car, so I just wanted it to be something really reliable and safe. What are your two cars? Just tell me what the two models are in a year. Sure. I have a 2011 Lexus RX350 that's the 260 a month, and my husband drives a – Dave, I'm interested if you'll know this one. It's a 2014 Chevy SS, but it has a Hennessy supercharger in it.

Oh, yeah. And it's recently been retuned, and it's a beast. Anyways, those are our two cars. Great gas mileage. Not. Not. All right, so what's your household income? We make over $200,000.

We net $12,000 a month. I have a nice base salary but also earn commissions, so that's our low end, and some months we make more than that. My husband's salary is set, and he's a 19. Okay. So we have a big shovel. So your question's what? Well, so I hate the amount of debt we have.

$85,000 a year for two years, and you're out of debt. I could do it. I don't know if my husband's, you know, wanting to sacrifice. So ultimately, ultimately we're not in a home that we want to be in forever. We do want to move to the Northeast. It's just a dream that we've had. So. You know what the problem with that is?

What? You're going to go with you. People in the Northeast. Yeah, I know. is what you're going to go with you on the northeast yeah i know no you're going to go with you and your husband who doesn't want to sacrifice is going to go with you no you can't run from this yeah the two the two of you in your relationship and you the two of you as a team have to stare this beast down yeah and the beast is in your relationship and you the two of you as a team have to stare this beast down yeah and the beast is in your mirror yeah you don't have a math problem you got a me problem yep so that's where we start and when he and when he when the two when the two of you call me back and say we are truly sick and tired of being sick and tired,

we're not going to rationalize about a freaking four-year-old needing a car to ride in that's a certain kind of car called a Lexus. We're not going to rationalize about driving a muscle car when we're like a grown man with children and can't pay his bills. We're not going to rationalize and run to the Northeast and pay all this off with the equity from our home and never have faced the fact that we wouldn't pay a price to win in the mirror. You guys, when you're ready to do that, you're ready to do anything. You don't have to do any of these things mathematically.

You can keep the cars, but you can't keep the lifestyle, and you can't keep the wishy-washy, I sort of kind of want to do this stuff. Not and get out of debt. Yep. Not and get out of debt. There's only one way you're going to get out of debt. You guys have substantial change in your view of money, your view of stuff, your view of acquisition, your view of what gives you peace,

your view of those things. When you change those things, that's transformation, and this debt will just evaporate in two years when you do that. You'll be on my stage in here screaming, I'm debt-free. I'd love to be. Stacey, let me ask you a quick question. A couple of credit cards. What's your monthly payments, your minimums that you're paying on these credit cards?

Give me a couple of notes. I broke our debt down because i'm i'm the geek um so the consumer debt is 94 000 and we pay 2 000 a month on just consumer debt um i called consumer debt everything but the cars and his student loan by the way it's all consumer yeah it's all i get it i get you this is just how i broke it down i really so here's what you need to hear you guys need to say this to each other out loud we make two hundred thousand dollars a year and we couldn't even choose to live on that i know that's what credit card that's what credit card debt if we don't change yeah you're gonna be bankrupt you going to be the bankrupt rich people.

The reason I ask you this question, Stacey, is because you started off the call going, it feels insurmountable, but if you were to just fix the car situation, that's $860 a month, a couple of credit cards, you're quickly over $1,000 a month that would be free to then put towards the student loans. And with your income what dave is saying you could get out of this thing quick i just don't know that you believe that you guys can get out of this as quick as we believe you can well 200 minus 85 is not a bad mile to live on that's 115 i know yeah not counting taxes but still i mean it's still

that's the big numbers but you guys i don't think my husband's willing to do that, but my husband is willing to move to the Northeast, sell the house, and pay off all the debt. With the windfall you get from selling a house in this world that we live in today, because he's going to make a ton of money. You can do that if you want to do it, but I predict this will crop back up, because you've never dealt with you. He's never dealt with him, and as a couple, we've never dealt with, we need a common vision

for our home the people with our last name as for me and my house we need a common vision and y'all don't have that your only common vision is you spend like you're in congress and it's killing you girl you're breaking my heart so that's my challenge to y'all lovingly as kindly as i can be not conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewing of your mind live like no one else so that later you can live and give like no one else no discipline seems pleasant at the time but it yields a harvest of righteousness. This is what's in your future, one way or the other. You're either going to decide or somebody's going to decide for you later.

This is The Ramsey. It's called Gazelle, and it's a digital banking experience that will help you spend and save the Ramsey way with banking services provided by PathWord NA. You'll get a single spending account with no monthly fees, and it's FDIC insured through PathWord NA. We're offering early access to our beta customers, so you can help us make it the best experience it can be. Just go to ramseysolutions.com slash gazelle to sign up for the waitlist today. Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today.

Open phones at 888-825-5225. Right now you're hearing a lot of talking heads in the news stirring up fear about the real estate market. If you believe them, then you think the housing market's going to crash. And it will be a repeat, repeat of the 2008 crisis. You're not hearing the truth. And you can't make decisions based on fear. You need actual facts. Here they are. In 2008, there was a huge supply of homes, but not enough buyer demand. Three times, almost four times more homes were on the market in 2008 than are on the

market today, and buyer demand was much lower than it is now. Our demand is way up. There's 12 million more households than there were. And there's 5 million more millennials in their mid-30s than there were Gen Xers in their mid-30s in 2008. In mid-30s, people are through prime house buying time. So demand is up. Supply is down. House prices aren't going to crash

right now there's half as many homes for sale as there are twice the buyers half as many for sale you don't have a housing crash when half as many homes are for sales there are buyers buyers are fighting to get houses still slowing down there's not an auction like it was in a lot of areas, but it has slowed down. You've got to work with an experienced real estate agent when you're in a market like this. This is not amateur hour. And so jump on to RamseySolutions.com. Find the people that we endorse, ELPs, endorsed local providers that are Ramsey-trusted agents in your area

to buy or to sell in this current world. It's too wild out there to go on your own. You need a pro in your corner to buy or to sell in this current world it's too wild out there to go on your own you need a pro in your corner walking with you they don't cost you money they make you money because the deals are much better when you're dealing with an experienced high octane high protein real estate agent check on our ramsey trusted elps at ramsey solutions.com if you're doing a real estate deal and you should be doing real estate deals. Katie is in Springfield. Hi, Katie.

Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hello. Can you hear me? Thank you for having me. Sure. What's up? So I am a newlywed college student, and my husband and I are about $12,000, a little bit over in debt, and are trying to figure out how to get ahead of this ball before it gets bigger than what we can pay off reasonably right after school. You're $12,000 in debt.

Yes. And you're what year in school? So I have full ride, and I'm finishing my associate's. My husband has also finished his associate's, but he's finishing his bachelor's in engineering. And how are we paying for all of this future education? So right now we're working and we have scholarships, and then all of my leftover scholarships since I'm at a really cheap community college goes over to his bills for school. So you're not adding any more debt? So that's what we're trying you're not adding any more debt?

So that's what we're trying to avoid, is adding any more debt. That's what I was asking about. We have student loan options, but we don't want to take them if we don't have to. You don't have to. Don't take them. You need to draw a line in the sand and say no more debt. So that's the first thing. And then once you do that, then $12,000 you can knock out. You may have to wait until you graduate and get jobs to be able to knock it out but your first

goal is not getting rid of the twelve thousand your first goal is graduate without any more debt and so i would just pile up money until he graduates and i'd pay off the twelve thousand after he gets out of school okay yeah because right now getting both of you through with no more debt is a big job in and of itself isn't it yes that's enough to concentrate on and i think that's a great goal and i think it's very doable by the way but you do have to take what we say take debt off the table if you go that's not an option i'm not going to do that now how are we going to figure it out and then that means scholarships and all the stuff you've been doing you've been scratching and clawing and scraping and scrapping and hustling and grinding and you're doing all the right stuff you're doing a lot of

smart things here but the only thing i would tell you is a take debt off the table b um you're if you if you can simply graduate with no debt no more debt and deal with the 12 000 later12,000 later, I'm going to call that a success, wouldn't you? I would, because, again, I think we've been illustrating this hour, certainly, that you can pay off $12,000, certainly, two people together in this job economy. You could knock that out so fast. It would really make your head spin how quickly you could knock that out. You might get that as a signing bonus at the new job. That's right, especially with that engineering degree. Who knows?

They're both going to make good money. Here's what's interesting in North America today. There are legitimate areas of poverty where people literally have unbelievable poverty. Nowhere near what there used to be. It's the best it's ever been. Poverty level is the best it's ever been. Poverty level is the lowest it's ever been in American history right now.

But aside from someone living at that, personal finance is 80% behavior. It's only 20% head knowledge. None of you listening really have a math problem as much as you have a behavior problem and that includes me when i discovered this truth years ago i figured out if i could get the guy in the mirror to behave he could be skinny and rich but he's got issues with donuts chocolate covered preferably yeah he's got other issues with other kinds of foods pizza yeah yeah it could it could be a problem oh and you know we all have this issue of you know denying ourselves something now to get something better later yeah this idea of delayed pleasure which is a grown-up act. Children do what feels good. Adults devise a plan and follow it.

And so, you know, our caller before the break, $200,000 a year, $85,000 in income. That's a fairly easy math formula. You should be out of debt in two years. But you have to be willing to deeply sacrifice. And, oh, by the way, they've been living not on $200,000. They've been living on about $250,000 because they've run up over a hundred thousand dollars with a credit card debt and so um not only do you have to cut your lifestyle down to your income now you have to cut it dramatically below your income none of that is a math problem that's all just a decision and the rationalizations the beliefs that we've brought in

as to what is normal and our level of work ethic uh how much are we wanting to work short term and long term and am i willing to stay at a job that quote unquote feels secure when there's something i can make twice as much with a reasonable level of risk yeah well you're really hitting on something i say this all the time dave uh that we are as humans our natural human condition is to be more comfortable being miserable than comfortable than miserable being comfortable right it's like well we would rather be miserable than uncomfortable is a better way to say it yeah because i i know what my misery is well i know yeah i got the credit card payments. We're barely making ends meet, but we got all the stuff and it's killing me, but I'm used to it. Versus what would it take

to actually pay off $85,000? What would it take? How quickly could we do it? And we don't even dive into that question. And so what happens is, Dave, the unknown is terrifying. It is absolutely paralyzed. It's like walking in a cave. You and Daniel Ainsley were telling me the other day a story about being in Israel in some cave or something where it finally wigged you out because it was so dark or something or so crazy. Crowded. The people wouldn't get out of the way. Oh, it was crowded.

Sorry. But if you've ever been in a dark cave where you can't see in front of you, you don't move. I can handle that as long as I've got a light. No, I'm saying, but imagine how terrifying. Here's an example. It's overwhelming. Well, yeah, but you get in a deep fog. What do you do?

You pull the car over immediately. You can't see behind the hood of your car. When you are out of control and you can't see your way towards control, it's called anxiety. Right. That's what we call it. But part of this is we don't even look into what would be what would have to be true for us to do this and then when we dive into the unknown a little bit and get some answers now what was terrifying and intimidating is oh all right

it's gonna be hard but it's doable yeah uh jim collins that wrote the book good to great talks about that and great by choice yeah uh he said said the thing that paralyzes more people in business, and it's true in your personal life too, people are more afraid of ambivalence than they are known struggle. Absolutely right. They'll choose known struggle over not knowing quicker. And so that's what we do here. We shine a light of knowing and go, you can do this. Now, now you've got to face the most difficult equation of all, the human equation.

You. Personal finance is 80% behavior. It's only 20% of knowledge. It is truly up to you. It's not up to the White House. It's up to what happens in your house. Your memories are meant to be relived, not chewed up by the VCR or worn away with time. Converting your old media with Legacy Box stops fading in its tracks, so your home movies are safe forever, and you can trust Legacy Box.

I've met the founders. They're right here in Tennessee, and they've helped over one million folks protect their memories. For a limited time, you can get started for just $9 a tape at LegacyBox.com slash Ramsey. That's LegacyBox.com slash Ramsey Personality, number one best-selling author, is my co-host today in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage.

Chris and Caitlin are with us. Hey, guys, how are you? Hi. Hey, how are you? Good to have you guys. Where do you live? We are from a small town in Ohio, Belleville. Okay, what's that near? It's about 20 minutes south of Mansfield. Got it. Okay, cool. Welcome to Nashville. And how much debt did you guys pay off? We paid off $56,081.70 in 17 months. Way to go. And your range of income during that time?

We pretty much stayed right about $90,000. Cool. What do you all do for a living? I do quality control for a pharmaceutical company. And I own and operate a construction business with my brother. Excellent. Very cool. Very cool. What kind of debt was the $56,000?

A little bit of everything, Dave. We had student loans, a truck payment, tractor payment, credit cards, medical. You name it, we had it. What was the biggest debt? Student loans. Okay. How much was that? Right around $25,000.

Okay. So almost half of it was student loan debt. Yes, sir sir who did that oh all right caitlin all right cool because he did the truck and the tractor so we know what happened there right i doubt neither one of those were you all right good so it sounds like we're about even here how long y'all been married uh just two years we're gone on two years okay so just shortly after marriage you come home and you say we're gonna get out of debt tell us how that happened and how you got connected to us yeah so really i think she came home and she said uh you know i heard of this guy dave ramsey and i

said okay who is that and we just got married i don't hear about another guy right so she continued on saying uh well let's just take a chance listen to his podcast hear him out and and i did and and we were already so broke at the time i said we have nothing else to lose let's try it why not why not we're not going anywhere but down might as well give old ramsey a shot right that's great i like it so what was the first thing you did after that started paying off the credit cards stopped using the credit cards so you got you got a game plan together you said we're going to work the baby steps yeah yep and did the debt snowball and the little list was the credit card yep okay good it was just a force to be reckoned with from there it

just kept tumbling and tumbling okay so once you saw it happen and then in game on you know then it starts what was the craziest sacrifice you did to get out thing where people kind of rolled their eyes at you yeah i think uh you know it's one of those things where you keep got to keep your nose on the grindstone keep pushing uh because you're going to hit a point where you're like man is this really this is tough and you know that's where the teamwork comes into play. And, you know, without Kaitlyn, we couldn't have did this without her. So, and I was out 8, 9, not getting home until sometimes 10 o'clock at night

trying to sell jobs. Hang and drywall. Hang and drywall, you name it. Just out there hustling, trying to get this paid off. Yeah, just whatever it took, right? Whatever it took. All the way through. Was that outside of your company with your brother?

You're doing handyman, any kind of odd construction job you could find? Yep, pretty much, yeah. Wow, good for you guys. How does it feel to be free? Amazing. Feels great. Who were your biggest cheerleaders outside the two of you? I think, honestly, it would be my younger brother and sister, Autumn and Aiden.

They've been with this journey from from before the beginning they were our reason why they were our first reason why at 19 years old get a phone call I go pick my brother and sister up and we didn't know what that was going to turn into but I think it's the greatest thing that happened to the both of us it turned us into mature adults at a very young age. We ended up taking over custody of them. Oh, wow. And they were right around 10 and 14 at the time.

And we were 19. We were 19. Whoa. So we have two kids here now. We're like, what the heck do we do? And we're broke. Two kids, don't know what to do. We're broke.

So we got to figure out a game plan, and we've got to figure out something fast because you look at the generations before you and the generations growing up with you, and you say, is this what I want? And if the answer is no, then you've got to do something about it. You've got to make the change and create your own destiny. Yeah, so when you're wearing shirts that say Change Our Family Tree, it means a lot. It means a lot. Yeah, because you've really had to step into a broken situation and man up at a very, very early age.

I'm so proud of you guys. You're amazing people. Thank you. Amazing people. And along the way, you had a baby? We did. We did. All right.

And so how old's the baby? She's 11 months now. Awesome. And what's her name? Reagan Rose. Okay. And she's got some built-in babysitters. Yes.

And they do a great job. That's great. That's awesome. Very, very cool. Well, I got to ask, you're in the midst of a life-changing relational situation, and then you decide, okay, we're going to make some life changes financially. Was there a point where it got to be like, this is so overwhelming, how are we going to do this?

I see you're shaking your head. Take us there. I think when we were eating, what's that dollar dinner? Hamburger helper. Hamburger helper three times a week week and the electric got shut off because somebody didn't pay it that was pretty stressful and um kids always need food always need clothes always want to do stuff and we were we were the ones there we so that was really the i had it moment when we didn't have any money we didn't

have anything there was nothing left over for us you guys are how old now 24 wow wow it's pretty powerful stuff when you're 34 where you're going to be sitting it's going to be amazing and uh the honor and the nobility that you have shown in your life overall for your whole family is, it's breathtaking. And number one. But number two, where that's going to take you to, if you continue to live your life with that kind of character, where you're going to go is going to be amazing. I mean, just this little bit of $56,000 worth of debt is a big hurdle, but it ain't nothing compared to what's coming. Your future is so bright. It's true.

Yeah, I want you all to know that the strength that you have acquired during this struggle, I don't even think we can possibly define it. I don't even know if you know how strong you all really are now with what you've had to overcome. It's truly inspiring. It really is. Well done, y'all. Thank you. You're amazing. We're so proud of you. Thank you. Proud to inspiring it really is well done y'all you're amazing we're so proud

of you thank you proud to know you very well done very very well done what advice do you have for somebody trying to get out of debt you did it i think uh faith where we think we think it's faith and commitment number one faith in god and then faith in each other and then faith in and in your budget and stay committed in your budget and stay committed to your budget and stay committed to one another. And if you can do that, you can do anything. Amen. Amen. What about you, Caitlin? What do you tell people the secret is? I would definitely say the same thing. I'd also say even when you don't like the budget, the budget is there to help you. That's right. I agree with that one.

I agree with that one. Very well done. All right, let's get the whole gang up here, the new baby, the brothers and sisters that are now part of the family, everything. This is a family tree that has been changed by so much, but most of all by the incredible character and nobility of this young couple. Very, very well done. Oh, she's so cute.

Oh, my gosh. Unbelievable. Very, very well done. Oh, she's so cute. Oh, my gosh. Unbelievable. Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful. All right, it's Chris and Caitlin. Autumn, Aiden, and Reagan from Ohio. What an incredible story. $56,000 paid off in 17 months, making $90,000. We got a copy of Baby Steps Millionaires, Total Money Makeover, and Financial Peace

for you to say we're proud of you and to take you into the next part of the journey. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. One, two, three. We're debt-free. Yeah. Wow. Wow.

Wow. You're 19 years old and you take custody of your 10-year-old little brother and your little sister. Unbelievable. And then we get married, have a baby, and let's get out of debt. Oh, there we go. While we're at it. Oh, my gosh. That's just enough to take it on and um but this is this is um this is how lives are changed when people like that step up and um you don't have to be 104 and you don't

have to have a phd and you don't have to have a million dollars you just got to have character man that's impressive this is the Ramsey Show. Thank you. Our scripture of the day, Philippians 3.14. I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. Bruce Lee said the successful warrior is the average man with laser-like focus. Well, we just see that every day here on the show. I like that one. I like that one a lot. Trevor is with us. Trevor is in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Hi, Trevor. How are you? Hi, David. How are you guys? Great, man. How can we help? Good. Hey, I have a career question. I guess it's kind of a good problem to have, I think.

A few weeks ago, I was in the interview process for two different roles. And I guess company A, we went through the process, and they sent me an offer. And so I followed up with company B, and only to find out that the hiring manager had resigned from his position. So, uh, I'm a Christian. So I kind of saw that as kind of one door closing, another one opening, and I accepted the offer to the first company. Um, well, about a week later, the leadership from company B, um, contacted me and asked if he could send over an offer. So kind of the predicament I'm in now is I have two offers,

but I've already accepted one offer from another company. So I'm just struggling ethically kind of how to handle that situation. And so I just wanted to call you guys for some advice on that. Sure. So what's the better offer for you? Clearly B? I think so, yeah. Otherwise there would be no struggle. Yeah, there's no struggle. Right. So here's what you have to weigh.

Your morality, you're a really good guy. You're a high-character guy, so you feel bad about this because you want to take B, but you're worried about how they're going to feel and maybe a little bit more worried about how you're going to look if you go back to A and go, hey, listen, I accepted the offer. I was up for two offers at the time. Here's what happened. And I think you have to say, how would you want someone to handle the situation with you? And so here, let me give you what I think is the real issue you have to get comfortable with. If you take A, in other words, if you stay with A but you really want B and B is the better offer, you're really doing A a disservice if you stay anyway. So what you think feels like, well, I accepted the offer.

I've got to be a good guy. I've got to be high character, and I've got to stay with A. But your I is always on B. I think it's doing a disservice to company A anyway. So I think the way to handle this, the way I would handle it is, is to treat someone the way I would want to be treated in this situation, which is be absolutely clear and upfront about what happened, the timeline and everything. They're not going to be happy about it, but you've got to do what you believe is right for you long term.

What's the difference in the offers? About $15,000 a year. What about the companies? So one company, company a is a little more established and has a little bit more structure. So I kind of know what I'm going to need to company B is a little more, it's smaller and it's, it's got, they're going through a lot of changes and there's a lot of opportunity, a lot of eyeballs on the roll.

Yeah, they're also very disorganized. Probably. No, they are. You told me the hiring manager got quit or got fired and they never followed up with you until you'd already accepted another offer. You're exactly right. They had no handoff. They had no methodology for handing off a lost employee

and picking up their workload. They're disorganized. That's true. And so they're more of a startup, and they're flying by the seat of their pants. Which one are you going to exist better in? I might be better in the startup because I'm kind of that gruff and humble guy, but some people prefer the structure and the predictability. Yeah, and I'm coming from a larger kind of publicly traded company,

so I'm used to that a little bit more. So what's most attractive about B? Is it just the $15,000 bump, or is there more to it than that? Well, that's certainly a part of it. Well, is it the majority part? Because I'm telling you. For 15K, I'm not doing it. Yeah, for 15K, that'll wear off pretty quickly. If you see this as an opportunity, I'm not as – Dave brings a very good point, but I'd want to know, is this an isolated situation or is this a pattern across the board with how they handle the miscommunication?

You know what I'm saying? Yeah, that it a pattern? And, B, are you mostly attracted to B just because of the bump? I'm a pretty rough and tumble ready to go with a startup, but it would concern me if they dropped a ball, and the ball, by the way, was you. That would concern me a little bit. Yes little bit yes as long as it could be isolated i could see this happening so i want you i want to put you on the spot you didn't answer it yet

is it mostly the pay or is this you feel like this might be a good ladder for you to climb um no i'm trying to reconcile that right now as we talk. I think the pay has something to do with it, but I think there's definitely opportunity at both places. So as far as the ladder to climb, I think there's opportunity at both places. That's fair. What's the total pay? For which one?

The total. I mean, either one, 15 or minus 15. So the higher pay is $125. Okay. So $125 or $110. Sure. Yeah. So we're talking about a 15% swing, give or take, 14% swing. Yeah.

Yeah. So, well, I would be perfectly fine with either choice if I were you. If you want to walk into the other people and go look here's what happened i don't like this i don't even like how it feels this is awkward i'm very sorry i'm going the other direction and take b um but i i will throw into the mix just as a part of the decision that i don't think this is apples to apples you're presenting this as apples to apples. You're presenting this as apples to apples, plus or minus 15. And I think B is a lot more unpredictable. And I don't, single events don't bother me. But if you can establish that this is a pattern and this organization just simply does not run as well for whatever reason,

and that discounts it for me. Okay. And so you can decide that you can fresh i'm sorry okay i would say this is super fresh it just happened kind of this morning and so it's uh it's something that i that's the type of stuff that i want to i wanted to call you guys and like yeah think about things that i wasn't already thinking how many employees is b oh 200 and how old are they I wasn't already thinking about it. How many employees is B? Oh, 200. And how old are they?

Five years old. Okay. Same industry or different industries? Different industries. All right. That's another question that I didn't bring up. I mean, long term, do you want to pivot to the industry of Company B? Well, I mean, I should preface this.

I'm in finance, so this is like a senior finance role. So it'll be finance in both companies. Okay, just the same type of work, different industry. Yeah, same type of work. Yeah, I think Dave's really on to something here. $15,000 is not a decision that I would make for the short term. I would go long term. What's the right long-term decision?

Ten years from now, which one's going to make you the most happy? Finance. You're a very structured guy. You're a methodical process-driven guy. If there's chaos at that other place, it's going to drive you nuts. You need to really know that before you make this call. And it's not worth the 15 bump if it's going to drive you nuts. You need to really know that before you make this call. And it's not worth a 15 bump if it's going to drive you nuts. And then that takes the problem off the table, obviously.

I'm not sure that's the case. I'm just questioning how this whole thing went down. If that was the way you ended up interacting with your leadership team for the next five years, you're going to pull your hair out, man. That's right. That's a good point. If that's what it is. Now, we've got a little of both around here.

Honestly, we've got some areas of this company that are still very raw, very frontier, very pioneering, very rough and tumble, and very disorganized and chaotic. And then we've got other areas of this place that are running like a freaking sewing machine. The processes are so dialed in and so professional and we got 1200 team members so we got a little of both going on around here so we could get accused of either um it's not saying that company is right or wrong i'm just i'm just trying to make observations about how this guy fits and where he goes in the thing here so um yeah but but uh uh the way to handle it if you chose to do b is simply just be up front and tell the truth yeah but the way to handle it, if you chose to do B, is simply just be up front and tell the truth all the way through. Do it the way you'd want somebody to handle you.

Treat other people like you want to be treated. Yeah. Solves all your business ethics problems. Be classy. Here's why, Dave. This is relevant to this last call. I shared an article today on the show, the Ken Coleman Show. 30% of people who changed jobs in the last two years are regretting it.

Ooh. 30% of people who changed jobs in the last two years are regretting it. Because 30%, they took the paycheck, and then they said it wasn't as good as we thought it was going to be, or I missed my old company. I missed something. So you've got to be careful making these kind of moves just for a pay bump. It's got to be a long-term play. Yeah, you've got to be where you need to be. Good point. Well, that puts us out of the Ramsey Show in the books.

Thanks to Austin, Ben, Zach, Andrew, James, Kelly, everybody. Will, everybody in the booth. Ken, good show. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace. The Ramsey Network app on your smartphone. It's the only place to listen to the entire back catalog of episodes.

Download the Ramsey Network app in your favorite app store today.