The Ramsey Show - App - It’s Not Too Late to Get Back on Financial Track

Episode Date: April 15, 2025

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, George Campbell, number one bestselling author, host of the George Campbell show, co-host of Smart Money, Happy Allerton, and Ramsey personality, he is my co-host today. Open phones here at 888 8 2 5 5 2 2 5 Big day a lot of happenings around this show today and give you a couple of heads up on that We don't usually do that first thing off the block, but I'm gonna do it today

It is launch day for my brand new book build a business you love Teaching small businesses the clear path Through the five stages of business we've worked with 10,000 small businesses the clear path through the five stages of business. We've worked with 10,000 small businesses across America and we are one and we have survived 2008. We've survived tariff wars. We've survived everything and you have too if you're fighting and scratching out there running a business. It's hard, but we're going to give you the clear path on how to get there. Build a Business You Love is launching officially today. Thank you for that. Congrats on the launch Dave. Well thank you. And happy tax day. Yes. Perfect timing. We needed some good news today. Someone said, did you do that on purpose?

And I went, absolutely not. But you know, so anyway, we're doing it and Amazon Music is now carrying the Ramsey Show and have been as they're in the podcast world now so if you haven't checked out that be sure and do that's the way to go and as a part of them celebrating that they are putting us and this book on one of the big digital billboards in Times Square. Oh that's

cool. This week so in a couple of days if you happen to be walking through Times Square with the 8,000 different digital billboards that are there, you'll see our shining face up there as one of them this week. Thank you to Amazon Music for doing that for us and for carrying our show, we appreciate it. Also, basically this show is broadcast in podcast

and video anywhere they'll let us. That's the rule. And so anybody that has it, anybody that does it, we put it out there. So obviously a lot of you are on Spotify, a lot of you are on YouTube, a lot of you are on Apple Podcast and Talk Radio and thank you for all of that. Spotify this week has gone to video as well. So you can now watch the show on video. We're one of their first video products as well. And so if you don't want to watch it on YouTube for whatever reason and you're a Spotify person,

you'll like that. We appreciate that. So you can find us there. So just a lot of things happening. A lot of things going on. This show has exploded. The numbers are astronomical and you guys out there are the reason. So we wanted to just take a second and update you and tell you thank you for all of that. And several of my friends that live in this area and other areas, I have been on their podcasts in the last year. Tucker Carlson, I flew up to Maine and did his and he's been a friend for years and this is the first time I've ever been on his podcast. That was a lot of fun. Theo Vonn came over.

That was a good one. We had a lot of fun with that. Theo's a new friend, but he lives here in the neighborhood and we've been hanging out a little bit and I'm really liking this young guy. He's a neat young guy and we set up his studio in our studio. He does do his podcast from here in Franklin, Tennessee, where we do. But he came over and we did that, I guess that was almost six or eight months ago now.

And then another guy that lives in the neighborhood that is a new friend in the last, I guess, six months ago or eight months ago, I met him for the first time and really liked this guy and he's a young podcaster that's exploded, become a big deal and he's about literally a mile from here where he does his show. Maybe two miles where he does his show and that's Sean Ryan and I did a long episode, he does long form stuff so we were sitting there for over three hours did a long episode, he does long form stuff, so we were sitting there for over three hours, a long episode with him and it dropped this week, today, yesterday afternoon,

whenever it was. So the Sean Ryan podcast with me and him hanging out talking life and kids and marriage and Christ and money of course and leadership and business and Trump tariffs and anything else he wanted to talk about about we just sat there and talked and classic Sean Ryan but I'm not his normal I'm not a SEAL Team 6 guy or a former CIA assassin or anything so I'm not his normal fare

but I really like the guy, I enjoy hanging out with him and sharp young dad, a young husband and man he's a great great interviewer. So, Sean Ryan, if you wanna see that long form interview, you can pick it up, of course, on his podcast. It's his show. We're on there, so. Lots of things happening around here, George.

Is he weak? And, you know what, 150 teenagers came in a while ago. Yeah. And I was walking through the, I thought they were protesters. They're not protesting, not in here. That was like a TikTok ban protest or something. We wouldn't do that.

But no, I mean, I'm walking through the lunchroom down there and I hear this cheer come up, like Rory McElroy walked up on the green or something. And it's George walking in to talk to the teenagers. And I think they thought the Beatles were here. It really made me feel like a superhero. I was very kind of because they see my face every day in the classroom watching our foundations and personal finance curriculum so the guy from the TV is in front of them now so this is as close as they'll get to seeing a real celebrity. Did they say

that you're taller in person? I forced them to say that. I said do you guys think I'm taller in person? They said yes absolutely. Absolutely. You're bulked up now. I sent some snark on them. Yeah, well no, teenagers would never have snark. Not those teenagers. They're good kids. But it was funny, I'm walking through the Dadgum Cafe, the Ramsey Cafe downstairs where our team all eats and I hear this cheer go up. You got excited. And I'm like, wow, what is it? Who's here? And I turned, I said, I asked Ken Coleman, I saw him, I said, Ken, who's here? And he said, George. It's a big deal, Dave. I know it's not to you. You're used to seeing me in person, but you catch me in a Costco.

It's a riot out there. People are losing their minds. They give up on the dollar fifty hot dog. George is here. George is here. Now it's fun. It means we're helping kids change our lives. I asked them, I said, who's committing to living their life debt free? All the hands flew up in the air.

So our work has meaning. The next generation is getting it, Dave. Well, and you're the primary feature in the curriculum. I'm in it a little bit. Rachel's in it? Rachel's in there, Deloney's in there. We've got some Ken in there. But you're the primary, right?

I was hosting, so you see a lot of me. Ah, okay. Because I was all over it. Okay. I just cut the different pieces I knew that we put in the...and it used to be all me, God help the poor teenagers. And they're like... They like you.

Well, they sort of did. They don't love you, but they like you. Oh, there we go. Okay. They love you. All right, that's it. No. They love you. All right. That's it. It's a great curriculum though.

A lot of people don't know that our curriculums are now at 48% of high schools in America. Six million high school students have been through our high school curriculum. Wow. Soon you think, man, they should teach this stuff in schools. We're doing it. We've been doing it. And if your school's not, then you ought to have a little FOMO here and get your school going and some of y'all ought to maybe sponsor it.

Well, I talked to a guy in Birmingham this week that on the air here yesterday, that one of the teachers and one of the local home builders sponsored it. That's cool. For his school and his school is Title I school. So it's almost a hundred percent free lunch. So it's an area that's lower social economic. And he goes, I can teach these kids

how they never have to live like their parents have lived. They're gonna become wealthy they're not gonna live in poverty and this math teacher and he was on fire and the homebuilder paid for the local home builder paid for it for all the kids to go through and so they're teaching it at that high school because of him. I love it. Well we don't usually take a segment and give you updates on us but there's a lot of us happening this week and so we want to take a segment and give you updates on us, but there's a lot of us happening this week and so we want to take a second and do that. By the way, we'll be, Dr. John Delaney and I will be in Louisville, Kentucky, Monday

if you haven't gotten your tickets yet. And Atlanta Friday and Durham, North Carolina on Wednesday. And so that's the first three cities of our six city tour next week. So get ready for those as well This is the Ramsey show George Campbell Ramsey personality is my co-host today Colin is in Fort Myers, Florida. Hi Colin. Welcome to the Ramsey show Hey, how are you better than we deserve. What's up?

My car, I was in a shopping mall and I was unstable off my bipolar, I was unstable off my bipolar disorder medication. I broke into my own car. My car was towed to the tow facility. The tow facility auctioned it off because I was in jail. When the police came I got scared and I ran. I was in jail for about 83 days and while I was in jail the tow company sold the car for 21,000. It was worth 41,000. I shouldn't have bought the car to begin with. They shouldn't have sold the car to begin with at Honda Acura and they ended up selling the car at the tow company and auction and then got 20 about 21,000 for it and there's a balance of

20,000 945 and then Honda Acura sold the debt to a creditor and I was just wondering if I should pay The creditor or just but there's a repossession on the record ready, so I'm not sure what to do Wow Okay. Well, I need to help you reframe your story okay. The tow company didn't do anything wrong. Yeah they didn't. They sold a car that had been sitting on their lot for 83 days in order to cover the tow bill and the storage bill. And so Honda, you owed Honda 41,000 Yeah, I bought the car and I guess I guess it's a matter of a safe or not they they they I was unstable when I bought the car. They said I was a a

Truck driver or something like that when I was an uber driver to get the loan I signed off the time. I just was unstable sold me the car for $41,000, couldn't afford a $900 a month payment. I'm trying to just get the, hold on, hold on, I'm just trying to get the numbers straight, honey. So you have $41,000 owed on the car, the tow company sold it for $21,000. How did they give clear title to it if the loan hadn't been paid off? That's interesting. I'm not sure. I don't know how far the law works. I can't imagine that if the car didn't at least pay off the lien. Anyway, I don't know how they got title but that's a different issue. So

bottom line is is that they put twenty something thousand dollars towards the debt and you still owe twenty something thousand dollars on a car that was in a weird way sort of repoed, right? Yeah, they did this they just sent me a letter saying I could sell for eight thousand three hundred dollars There you go. It came to five thousand two hundred. There you go. Do you have any money? I don't have any money till November. I have a settlement check coming in for $5,700 in November. I could probably settle with them in then. Okay. So I should do that? Yeah, you're gonna have to clear the debt. It is a valid debt. And typically a repo debt you can clear for somewhere around a quarter on the dollar.

And so the $20,000 balance you probably can clear it for around five. Eight was their first offer. You could probably get them down to five. But you don't have five today. So you can't really make them a counter offer today. What you could do is just ignore them and let them get a little bit more sweaty before you have to deal with them. That's not a bad thing. Eventually, they're going to get around to suing you for that. Are you working?

I, for the first time in my life, I'm not working now. I'm six months out of work. I went off my psychiatric drugs right before I sold my condo four years ago. I came in at $72,000 and went through four years of hell until I finally realized in the last three weeks I'm fresh out of the hospital two weeks ago. So you're out of the hospital two weeks ago now. Pretty much. Yeah.

Are you stable? Are you on back on the meds? Uh, yeah, I'm back on the meds now. Um, I take lithium and a lot of drugs, um, but I just, it's, and I'm a little shaky right now, a little shaky, but I'm stable. Um, um, so working through things, but, uh, yeah, I, I, I, I said 14 years old, I started a vending company, had that for 10 years and then worked in pizza delivery for about another 10 years or so. So it's been a rough ride.

I believe I saw Jesus Christ in the hospital in Tampa after I was going 45, 55 miles an hour. I fell asleep at the wheel. I prayed to God in Jesus' name to stop my car in the middle of traffic. I prayed to Him to help me. And I was going 45, 55 miles an hour in San Francisco. He stopped my car in the middle of traffic. I had cars in farming, cars in the side of me. He had a scratch on my body, you know, where I had been deployed. And I've been deployed and only 700 some dollars in Tampa Hospital.

So Colin, Colin, the first thing before we worry about healing your numbers, healing your math and your finances is for Colin to get healing, okay? And so whatever work you just did at the hospital and whatever work you've got to do to finish stabilizing your meds to get there, that keeps you, if you can get there and stay there, it keeps you from falling into the traps of buying things, of getting things stored, getting in jail. It keeps you out of all those traps because all those things set all your financial numbers back on. It makes it real tough.

And so almost everything you're having to clean up is the result of you being sideways, right? And so if we can help you, if you can focus on Colin, focus on what your therapist is saying, get those drugs balanced and getting them balanced is a trick, you know that, and getting them right to where you have enough energy to live but you're also not completely freaking manic, which you sound a little bit right now like you are, but I want you to work on healing colon and then as you do that you'll be able to get and hold a job of some kind to create an income, and then you can settle

this repossession deficit for somewhere around 25 cents on the dollar. So $5,000 will clean this particular mess up, but you will have seven other messes if Colin doesn't find healing. And so, man, we'll be praying for you, brother. Sounds like you've really been through it. And I want you to get stable and get straight and narrow, and for your sake, and just find

some peace and find some ground you can walk on this solid. And another tactical piece of this is adding some stop gaps in there, like freezing your credit with all the bureaus so that you can't open debt. Because right now, it could just take one little slip up and you open a new line of credit, got another loan, and like you found out, these dealerships, these lenders, they don't care.

They'll do whatever it takes to get you another loan. And so put some stop gaps in place to help protect yourself. Wow. But that's scary. Mike is in Connecticut. Hey Mike, how are you? How can we help? Sure. So I have some rental properties that, uh, as I get,

I guess as I get closer to retirement, I'm looking for some advice on how you would exit, would exit owning your own properties other than selling and just paying the taxes that pretty well it if you want to exit yeah I mean you can do 1031 exchanges but you would be trading these rental properties for other rental properties. That's not exiting. What do you think about a REIT exchanging into an REIT? You can't. It's not like kind. It has to be actively managed property and you're not actively managing a REIT. A REIT is more of a mutual fund than it is a real estate investment. So you'd have to sell it, then use the proceeds to invest into a REIT.

But you're going to have the taxes on it. So 1031 tax deferred does not work to a REIT. Not in my opinion. I mean, you have to get professional tax advice if you want. But if somebody told you that on TikTok, I would be questioning it. I don't think that'll work because it has to be income producing to income producing. You can't trade your lake house for another lake house in a 1031, unless you rent it 181 days a year and call it a rental property over six months of the year. So you can't trade your personal

residence in a 1031. It doesn't work. It's income producing property for income producing property. And so you've got to, you know, active, it's actively managed stuff. And so that's what you're looking at. What you can do if you want to do is 1031 is move from something that is like if you've got a bunch of houses and you want to move out of the residential drama of tenants, move to a boring tenant like a warehouse deal. Warehouse tenants are boring. And a lot of those are triple net, meaning they pay the taxes, the insurance, and the

maintenance and pay you rent. And you don't do anything except collect a check then. And that's, that you can do a 1031 on for some houses. So you can look at doing some of that. But otherwise you're going to pay some capital gains. And depending on how long you've held them And how far you depreciated down your basis your capital gains could be substantial Well, it's book launch day for build a business you love if you're running a business, you know the truth

The truth is running a business is hard Everybody thinks I'm gonna be self-employed, it will be so easy. No, you find out pretty quick you have a jerk for a boss. I mean I work me like a rented mule. I crack the whip on me like nobody's business, right? Working for yourself is tough. It's hard. It's fun, it's exhilarating, but easy is not one of the adjectives that you use.

And I'll tell you what is harder is when you don't have a clear path, you don't know where you're going. Like we're going to Florida, but we don't know which way, so we're just going to drive around and hope we end up there. If you're running your business that way, that's really anxiety producing. I don't mind going uphill as long as I know when I get there that I'm at the destination. I don't want to go up the hill and then find out I'm on the wrong hill. It's a bad idea. So that's what this book's about. It's like the baby steps for your business. It's the proven system we've

used to grow Ramsey and coach thousands of business owners and you can get it at ramsesolutions.com slash store. Build a business you love and we'd love for you to get that book today. Today is the first day it is the pub day it's on the streets today you'll find it in bookstores and Amazon and our website and everybody else will ship it to you starting today or you can walk into the bookstore and if you see it laying there pick it up it'll be there today. Our question of the day is brought to you by why refi why refi refinances defaulted private Student loans that's different than a federal student loan and it means you even you can't even make the required payments

If that describes you why refi can help you they will restructure the loan for you, get you where you're current, and then help you get out of debt. Because they want to get their money back. That's pretty cool. And you know, low fixed rate loan that's customized to you, yrefi.com slash Ramsey, that's the letter y, r e f y dot com slash Ramsey might not be in all states. Today's question comes from Allison in Minnesota. I agree with your advice not to get whole life insurance, but I have a question about it. With term life insurance, if you outlive the term,

you lose all of the money you paid in premiums. With whole life, you would still have some cash value. Is the difference between them worth the risk of getting nothing? Well, here's the thing. Term life is not an investment. So the idea that you got nothing, that's like saying, well my house didn't burn down, so I guess I wasted

all that money on homeowners insurance. It's not the point. It's to replace your income if something were to happen to you, and by the way, that whole life is gonna be ten times the cost, and it's a giant ripoff, because it all goes to the whole life company. So there is a huge difference and term will still come out ahead in every case. Yeah so the thing is this term is one

twentieth it's 20 times less expensive and if you invest the other 95 cents on the dollar that you're not spending on whole life into your retirement you're gonna have millions of dollars and that beats what you would have had had you put the same amount of money in a whole life. So what you're comparing here is inaccurate. You're saying that term I'm going to get nothing and whole life

I put in the same amount and I'll get something. No, you put in 20 times more and if you had taken that difference term and invest the difference somewhere else you spent the same money you spend on the whole life you would end up with a lot more whether you live or whether you die and so that's the way to go but life insurance all insurance is not an investment no insurance no insurance is an investment is better way of saying it George is exactly right if your down, doesn't burn down, and you never got money for your homeowner's

insurance, did you get ripped off? No, you transferred the risk that you could not afford to buy a new home if your house burnt down without insurance. You transfer the risk if someone dies with life insurance that they're depending on your income. And so, if you're 32 years old, you got three little kids and no money, and Papa dies, Mama's got a mess. So you need to go to Zander Insurance and you need to get life insurance to transfer the risk because you can't afford to die. You can't afford to have your house burned down without homeowners insurance. And you can't afford

to die without life insurance to make sure your family is taken care of. So you're transferring the risk. It's not an investment. And so you've got all of this convoluted, Allison, which tells me that you've been talking to and stop it a whole life agent. Stop talking to them. Because the words you're using and the way you're bringing this up is straight out of their little playbook. It's out of their little script on how they sell this crap. What's the old saying? If you don't argue with an idiot, they'll drag you down and beat you with experience. That's most whole life agents. Jade is in Sacramento. Hi Jade, how are you? Good, how are you? Better

than I deserve. What's up? Yeah, so my husband and I actually took your guys's high school course and we are completely debt-free. We do have a mortgage but other than that no credit card debt. And my question is, can we afford a substantial vacation? At what point can we spend money on a vacation? Well we tell folks until you're through baby step three, do you know what that is? Let me see, I have my notes. That's okay.

I'll tell you, it's okay. Dave memorized it. Um, the Baby Step 3 is a fully funded emergency fund and you're out of that. You should not go on vacation until you have those done. If you've got your emergency fund, you're to Baby Step 4, which means you should be putting 15% of your income away for retirement, and you should be putting something for your kids, college, and putting a little extra on your mortgage.

If in that budget you can pay cash for a vacation, a couch, or an upgrade in a car, or whatever other spending you want to do, that's the time you would do it. And it sounds like that might be where you are. Yeah, we have a good amount saved for emergency. Okay. And do you have 15% going into retirement? Yes. Good. Okay, and what are we talking about spending on a vacation? Three to five thousand. Five thousand would be generous, around three thousand. Okay, and what's your household income? Right now it's 82 gross 16 net and you would pay cash for this vacation

Yes, no more debt No debt no more debt ever Yeah, okay, all right, yeah Yeah that's what we that's when we would tell you to do it. Do you have the money today? Yeah it's in our savings. Wonderful. Wait a minute, wait wait wait wait your savings is that your emergency fund? So we have twenty seven thousand in our savings emergency, so it's more than our what our... You need to quit calling your savings, okay? You need to take all of your savings and give it a name. How much of the twenty seven thousand is the emergency fund? How much of it is the vacation fund? How much

of it is the Christmas fund? How much of it is the Christmas fund, how much of it is whatever, okay? And so I'll just make up a number just to give you an example. I've got $27,000 in my savings account, but $20,000 of that is the emergency fund. We never touch that. I've got $4,000 of the $27,000 is my vacation fund and three thousand of my 27 is saving up for a better car or Bake or Christmas next winter or whatever I don't care But you should give your dollars a name because if you just call it savings Then you can emotionally justify taking any of it out and get too far down into your emergency fund what you don't want to do

Yeah, okay, so you and your husband decide how much of down into your emergency fund, which you don't want to do. Yeah, okay. So you and your husband decide how much of this is your emergency fund. And I actually, George and I generally would recommend you put your emergency fund portion in a separate account. I like keeping them all separate. So you don't touch it for anything. And then you could have a miscellaneous savings where we're saving up for different things and we itemize those But I like having it separate so I don't get all excited about the vacation and or the car purchase or whatever

And you know all of a sudden I'm down into that emergency fund and then I have an emergency and oh my now We got a mess again, so but it sounds like you're ready to go Jade. Enjoy your vacation kiddo This is the Ramsey show thanks for being with us America we're so glad you are here Connor is in Toronto Ontario hey Connor what's up hey are you today better than I deserve. How can I help? Yeah, so I'm 25, married. I got a daughter and about $550,000 in debt, including a mortgage. Just kind of feels like I have every dollar out. I've been trying to use it, but even then it just feels really overwhelming trying to see basically no light at the end of the tunnel so right so it's just a little need some guidance basically on how to work it out from here. How much consumer debt do you have? Let's separate the mortgage out because that'll help take away this mountain of debt you're looking at. Sure yeah. I have $145,000 home equity line of credit, $14,000 personal line of credit on my wife's

side that was transferred over from a student loan, $1,000 credit card and a $5,000 credit card. So $165,000 total. What was the home equity line for? Consolidating, other debt. What was the home equity line for? Consolidating other debt. What was that debt? Two cars that we had and then some of it too was basically Robin Peter to pay Paul, right? My wife went on here in Ontario, like you get 18 months of maternity leave, right? So, but when you are in 18 months, the subsidy that you get from the

government is very low, like it could be maybe $500 a month, right? So I was using that to pay for our home expenses too on top of that. So she couldn't afford to go on 18 months worth of leave but did it anyway? 12 or 18 months, yeah, that's what you get. So she had no you don't get it at full you get it at 500 bucks a month and starve to death. So she couldn't you guys could not afford for her to go out for 18 months but she did anyway.

Yeah, she was on maternity leave for that time. And used debt to fund it, essentially. Yeah, at the time I was working a commission job, right, so I wasn't making a steady income. At the time, during that 18 months... At the time, you couldn't afford for her to take that much time off, and she did anyway. Yes. Okay, I want you all to hear that. Because you can't go into

these things and you fall backward into them again. You can do that once but you need to learn what the mistake was and the mistake was you can't look up and go well I don't want to work. Yeah. That's not an option when you're broke. Alright so what do you make now? I, I make about 80 to a hundred thousand. What does she make now? About 65. So you make 165. Hmm.

Yeah. I will get raises. Oh, next for the next. How long has she been back to work? Uh, for about six to eight months now. Okay. How long has she been back to work? For about Six to eight months now. Okay, because you should have easily been making it with both of you working and Making progress. Yeah making I mean good. God. What does it take for you to live?

I mean you should be putting five six eight ten thousand dollars a month on these debts Yeah, I mean our take-home pay probably per month is about eight thousand oh yeah you're in Canada you guys get your butts we whine about taxes in the US and you make us look like a champion are you guys investing too at all yeah she has a an investment account here we call it it's a tax-free savings account, right? Yeah, and you get to invest and you get to take out tax-free but you're capped at about six thousand a year to put in Yeah, you need to stop investing temporarily and work what we call the baby steps. Have you ever heard of that? I have just based on the podcast like Like I've thought about getting Financial Peace University.

I didn't know if it translated over to Canada, but I'm sure the principals would too. The principals do. I'll send you a copy of the Total Money Makeover book. And George, then he would work the baby steps. So baby step one is $1,000 starter emergency fund. Likely you guys have that. And then baby step two, again, you're pausing investing.

We're not borrowing another dime, you're gonna pay off all of your debts from smallest to largest balance with the debt snowball method. So you make minimum payments on all the debts, but on that smallest one, attack it with a vendage. Throw as much extra as you can at it and it gets knocked out real quick

because it's the smallest one. Take that payment you freed up, apply it to the next and to the next until you're completely debt free. And if you do it that way, make it 165 and maybe working even more, maybe you get a side hustle, you guys can clean this up in two years. No eating out, no vacations, no investing, no over-taxation. Don't over withhold.

Make sure your withholding is the only what you have to pay in taxes, no more. You don't want to get tax refunds like we do in the US, it's a bad idea. And you guys gotta live on beans and rice, rice and beans. Because you have made a freaking mess at 25 years old with babies. And that's not unusual, you're not a horrible person. Most people live like you're living, but as you described when you opened the call, when I picked up the phone, it's no freaking fun. Normal sucks.

I don't want to be normal. So you've got to get mad and pay, and if you've got any savings at all that's not retirement savings, start throwing it at these debts tonight. Knock out that thousand dollar credit card, cut it up. Knock out that five thousand dollar credit card, cut it up. Knock out that little fourteen thousand dollar personal card cut it up knock out that five thousand dollar credit card cut it up knock out that little fourteen thousand dollar personal loan and be done with it man that's only that right there's only twenty grand

you should be done with that just a few months and then that gets you down to the home equity line and the house and then I want you to plow through that home equity line as fast as you possibly can or refinance the house and roll the home equity line into it either one but no more borrowing ever you need to have plastic surgery chop up the credit cards a plastic to me you need to decide I'm not living like this anymore so that you can get clear this because you've you've spent more than you make your entire married life and it's reached the end mathematically you don't have that option to do that anymore and it's stressful and it makes you feel shamed and it puts a strain on

your relationship and you guys as a couple as two grown-ups have to live on less than you make Period no exceptions and by the way Connor That's all of us we all of you people listening all of you people watching you have to live on less than you make and I was the master at spending money and borrowing it to come borrowing to cover up my Disorganization my impulsive spending, my entitled mentality. I had all of that in my twenties and it's one of the things that led me to build a business that caused me to go bankrupt. And that's how I learned all this stuff, was the hard way. So I've done it worse than you.

And one of the biggest traps out there is when you play the shell game, you start moving the debts around, well we can consolidate that, there is when you play the shell game, you start moving the debts around. Well, we can consolidate that, we can wrap it into the HELOC, and you feel like you did something because action was taken, but you just moved the debts around and didn't clean any of it up.

In fact, it probably is worse now because they're not separated, so you don't get to do the debt snowball with a giant HELOC sitting there. And so this is the stupid tax that we talk about, and one day you look back and go, man remember when we were young, we made all those decisions.

Well at 27 you guys are gonna be completely debt free if you do it this way. With the rest of your life ahead of you. Or sooner. Yeah. You heard Dave, get to work. Yeah. I mean I want you guys. 18 months?

Beans and rice. No freaking life. And I don't care if your broke friends are making fun of you. If your broke friends are making fun of you. If your broke friends are making fun of your financial plan, that means you're right on track. It's like fat people making fun of your diet. You don't care. I don't care. I'm trying to stay alive. I'm trying to build a future here. And you don't have any credibility to make fun of me. So you don't get a vote in my life. And When you reach that kind of stuff, that's when everything changes.

So you and your wife tonight need to have a Come to Jesus meeting, and the two of us say, all right, we are not doing this anymore. Brand new life. Two children having children, no more. We're two adults now. And we're going to make adult decisions, and we're going to get after this. And adults devise a plan and follow it. Children do what feels good. And I got to tell you, I don't care if you're 55 or you're 25, if you just do what feels good. I work so hard, I deserve it. You don't deserve nothing. Shut up you

whiner. You deserve it when you saved up the nothing shut up you whiner you deserve it when you saved up the money and paid for it because you worked your butt off that's when you deserve it until then you didn't deserve it I work hard like we all don't work hard you want some cheese with that wine shut up they've just served up a charcuterie board I'm serious man that just and we're kind of there you don't deserve it you just you deserve get off your butt straighten things up that's what you deserve that's it I'm not yelling at you Connor I'm yelling at everybody this is the Ramsey show live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions it's the Ramsey show where we

help people build wealth do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey your host George Campbell Ramsey personality number one best selling author co-host a smart money happy hour with our own Rachel Cruz he's my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Jeff's in Kansas City. Hi Jeff, how are you? Great, Dave, how are you? Better than I deserve, sir. How can I help? Well, I'm 64 years old. I have no retirement. I work at a commission job. I've built an

insurance agency, passive income to some degree. And my question is this, that I'm living paycheck to paycheck right now with no retirement. What do I need to do when my stocks, which I have no control over, will start holding value? That value should come in there telling us when we go public somewhere at fifteen to thirty dollars a share with what i have after paying the forty percent tax i believe that is what it is looking about six hundred on the low end

the one point five on the high end that i will get like actual stock and when i was in what what i did michael i'd be a better bob will get when I cash those stocks in. And when is this? What would I do? Like a day, that's a problem. We were being told it could happen in a year, could happen in three years. So the insurance agency that you're a part of is going to go public? The IMO that we are part of. I own my own agency under the IMO. The IMO is going to go public.

In one to three years they're telling us. Okay and you don't have any control over any of that? No. Okay and why are you, after all these years of building a book of business, why are you still living paycheck to paycheck that makes no sense I had to let go of 50% of my passive income due to health reasons and I have an opportunity to build that back up which I can or do I go out why did you have to surrender your book of business for health reasons because you couldn't service it that's stressed and basically was out of the field for a while long story short you have a spread with the

agent underneath you and enlarge its leg was planking me and once you get planked then you have no override. That passive income basically goes away. When that happened, 50% of my passive income, I was making about $120,000. I'm making probably $70,000 to $80,000 now. Okay. And you're not, that's the passive side. Are you actively working again? Are you able to work? Yeah. Yeah, I stay in the field to some degree, just to keep my licenses in. Why aren't you working like a maniac if you're broke?

Well, I'm lazy. I mean, that's the question that my time keeps presenting is, do I put my time and energy, because I need them to go back out. I take it some time off which Chin up, but based on getting myself where I needed to wait be emotionally mentally My question is do I put it back into the agency and rebuild that I can There's an upside to that or do I just go out and get a? 20 to 30 dollar remote phone gig that would make the most money I assume you make the most money in your craft you should make a lot more than

$20 an hour if you start making sales calls again absolutely well go like sales calls dude yep I'm doing that on a limited basis. The bigger piece to that is what I let go of Dave is the building piece. So there's two pieces to our business model. I understand. Produce? Correct. Which I can do with my eyes shut. Well you need, yeah, but you need the money, you need the short-term money until the thing goes public. Correct. Okay, so go work your butt off till it goes public. When it goes public you can quit. Well, possibly. If you get a 600 to 1.2, I think you can invest that at 67 years old and you'll be able to quit. Well, what

is a good number? Do you know what that number is with life expectancy? If you can live off of 8 percent and you invested at twelve percent that's a good number okay so if you got a million dollars you be living off eighty k if you invested in good mutual funds and it makes an average of twelve which the market is averaged eleven point eight since it began the last two years, 23 and 26, or 24 and 23, it averaged over 25%.

Now that's not normal though. But in those two years, if you'd taken off 8, your portfolio would have grown substantially. Okay, so if you take off 8, as long as it's making more than 8, the thing will run perpetually. And that's invested in good growth stock mutual funds. But I think you're sitting around whining about all this stuff in the rear view mirror and you don't feel like you want to go get it again and you don't really have a choice. You got to go get it. You got an IRS bill, you got all this stuff stacking up around you and it all reflects back on this time that you took off

and it costs you half your book of business cost your overrides and Yeah, now you got to go back and rebuild your short-term income all I want you to do is go make a hundred hundred and fifty a year For the next three years while you're waiting on To put a little money in the bank put a little money while you're waiting on the other thing to go your ship to come in. Yeah. For God's sake. I wouldn't wait for this payout to get control your money

and get rid of this debt. You can't live on 60k and pay off 70,000 of the IRS while you're waiting and you don't know when it's coming. So you've got to go make some money and $20 an hour, that's just a that's a false offer. You're not going to go do that. Because that'd be dumb to go do that when you can go make $60 or $80 or $100 an hour out there selling.

So you're not going to go work at Target. Shut up. Don't even make that offer. You know, go do the thing that you don't want to do. Oh well, it goes with the choices you've made. And so that's what you've got to do, oh well, it goes with the choices you've made. And so that's what you got to do, man. So, you know, I've been in those same exact situations, so I'm not fussing at you, I'm coaching you. I'm your coach at halftime and we're

behind. And you need to go out there in the third quarter and catch us back up. And I'm saying go hit somebody, dude. Roll up your sleeves and get it. Suck it up, buttercup. Here we go. We've seen some incredible inspirational stories of people in their 60s who cleaned up a mess and still were able to retire with dignity not why he's gonna have a lot of money when the story ends silver lining here but but you got a you got to get to that IPO you got to get to that public offering and that's when you get there you're gonna get six to six hundred to one point two you said out of your share of the stock at that point and Nothing bad is gonna happen by you increasing the book of business and increasing your income in the meantime

Nothing bad happens except You're not gonna get to sit on your butt That's the only bad thing that happens and who appreciate the honesty of him just coming out and saying I'm lazy I'm really I don't want to do it, but you know you put yourself in position where you don't have that option. So when you owe the KGB money I mean the IRS money you've got to go do stuff to get the wolf away from the door because that wolf's got teeth man you don't want those people in your life. They'll just go right into your bank account they're not scared they have the power to do whatever they want. Yeah it's

pretty rowdy. And yeah, they're scary people. They scare me. In honor of Tax Day. I'm not afraid of many things, but on April the 15th, I'm afraid of the IRS. And here's what's interesting. I heard this on, I was on Fox Business this morning. The IRS has issued all these guns and they've had more accidental discharges, the gun going off accidentally, than they have people actually ever firing the guns at a bad guy. Oh boy.

Well it's an IRS agent with a gun, come on! That was a bad idea. Not a highly trained individual. It's not SEAL Team 6. This is the Ramsey Show. This is it. The last day to file your taxes before you get penalties and interest. If you're due a refund, it's time to ask Uncle Sam to pay up.

If you owe taxes, it's your last chance to avoid getting stuck with a new IRS pen pal. If you're worried you'll owe more than you could pay today, well don't panic, the IRS offers payment plans, but you gotta file. Not filing is criminal. Not paying is not. And if you don't file because you can't pay today, that doesn't help a thing. So file on time even if you can't pay. There's no hidden fees if you go with RamseySolutions.com

slash Smart Tax. Our trusted tax software, it's extremely accurate, it's very inexpensive, and it's quick. So you can get your taxes filed by the deadline at midnight tonight. There are no hidden fees, no sneaky upcharges, you'll get everything you need to file your taxes with upfront transparent pricing. RamseySolutions.com slash Smart Tax. We're gonna make it easy for you boys and You'll get everything you need to file your taxes with upfront, transparent pricing. RamseySolutions.com slash Smart Tax. We're going to make it easy for you, boys and girls. Randy's in Greensboro, North Carolina.

Hi, Randy. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hello. How are you doing today? Better than I deserve. What's up? This is more of a, a curiosity, uh, type question. I understand that real estate, uh, the value of real estate goes up and the value of anything whips goes down.

But the question is, why is that? Why does real estate go up? Why does cars, why does mobile homes and all that stuff? Why does that go down? That's more or less the, uh, it's more of a curiosity, more of a, you know, the underlying, what's the underlying reason for that? Well, there's no magic reason for it. In general, it's supply and demand. There's a shortage of real estate all the time. You've heard the saying, they're not making any more land. And traditionally

in most of the last say 100 years or so in America, there's been more buyers of houses than there were houses. And so anytime there's a shortage on anything that is a commodity, it causes the value, causes the cost to go up. Even something as stupid as you remember a few years ago, beanie babies. There are people who are going after, you remember Cabbage Patch Kids at Christmas or something like that, where there's a shortage on a toy or Xboxes. There's a temporary shortage, a created shortage because they just don't make enough to make them uber popular. And so there's more people to make them uber popular and so there's

more people to buy them than there are items in any commodity whatever it is that there's a shortage of the price goes up that's the main reason and cars they make more of them every year and so they spit off cars like you know thousands and thousands and thousands a day right and so you And you want the latest and greatest because now there's better technology and so... Yeah, that's the second reason is it's exactly right, George. The technology on cars has changed way faster than the technology in homes. Now homes are much more technically savvy than they were in the 1960s for sure, but the actual studs that go on the wall are still tuba force, and the actual roofing, it's still asphalt shingles on most people's

houses, you know, and the actual siding is still the same brick, you know, and so there's not been a lot of change in the basic structure of a house, and cars have changed dramatically. So cars are more akin to computers than they are houses. They make eight bazillion of them new every year and they're not they're making computers faster than we make people. And so when you unbox a computer it goes down in value because the next one is going to be a lot faster, a lot more technically savvy, and there's no shortage of them. No, I mean everybody and his brothers got six of them, you know, I mean it's like is there a shortage of phones? Oh my god

you can get a phone, you know, the smartphone anywhere, anytime, same thing. And so they've gone up in cost but mainly because their technology has gone way up but a used one doesn't go up in cost, only the new one, same as with a car. So cars and computers are more akin than cars and houses in this philosophical discussion we're having on appreciation of assets. And so that's what you're looking at. The other thing is houses can actually, if you rent them out,

create an income. Cars, hypothetically, I guess you could rent them out, but income. Cars, hypothetically I guess you could rent them out but they don't last long enough to be rental property so to speak. And so you rent them out by Uber driving but that's a temporary thing and you're you know you run the wheels off the thing. So I think that's probably the best answer is the technology shift in the short it's mainly a commodity. Anytime you're dealing with a commodity, you're dealing with the price is not controlled by the value that the thing creates. The price is controlled by the shortage or the scarcity

or the overabundance, the glut in the market. And that's why things like gold, gold doesn't create money. The only thing that drives gold prices is a shortage, you know, coming up with more or less gold, people chasing the gold. And so when there's fear or greed, gold goes up. Which it's happening right now. I see the billboards now for gold. Yeah, when everything's real calm and everybody thinks we're prosperous, gold goes way down. Now the gold people don't talk about that, but it drops like way down. And so, but if everybody's afraid or everybody's greedy they're going, oh, look at the price of gold, oh, oh, oh, and they start hyping it up and call Dave Ramsey crazy because he says don't put money in gold. But I don't

have any, I can't judge the value of gold because there is no inherent value in gold. Gold doesn't have value it's just a gold rock. Silver doesn't have value diamonds don't have value gemstones don't have value it's it's just a rock the only thing that gives it value is there's more people chasing it than there is supply. People willing to pay for it. Yeah and so the other thing that comes into my mind it's an interesting question. Thanks for letting me letting us riff on that a little bit Randy. The other thing that comes to mind is I remember going through appraisal class when I was getting my real estate license at 18

years old. One of the things they teach you to pass a real estate test it's one of the questions back then was what's the definition of market value? In other words, what drives price, right? And the definition of market value of a house, a piece of real estate in general, is what a willing buyer will pay to a willing seller where neither is under duress. where neither is under duress. And so if you're not, you know, if you're getting foreclosed on, you're under duress. So that's not a market value. When you buy a foreclosure, you don't establish market value.

Okay. So that's a desperate situation. Because one of them is under duress. And if there's a shortage of housing and there's 83 offers coming in on the weekend, that's really not established. Like, you know, remember the post COVID stuff when people lost their dad gum mines on houses, right? And, but that didn't establish real market value

because there was duress on the part of the buyer because we're like, oh, I've got to up it. I've got to up it up. It's like an auction. It's like eBay. You just keep on holding it up. You keep holding your paddle up. Yeah. Like in an auction and you kept getting,. Someone keeps hitting it up. You keep holding your paddle up, like in an auction,

and you kept running the price up all weekend, and you're paying considerably more than asking price. You're getting a bidding war for a house. That's not market value, because one of the parties is under duress. And so the definition of market value in real estate, and it really should be probably for anything, is what would a willing buyer give a willing seller where there is no, where neither party

is under duress. And you know, I think about like, I bought the Raptor R, okay, which is the one with the 700 horsepower monster engine in it. That's a beast. It's a beastie. And it's a serious upgrade on the Raptor package and they didn't make many of them Scarcity and so the dealer price was X But the dealers were selling them for X plus twenty five thousand dollars

because of the demand for because now either like just a handful of them being made and People and more than a handful of people wanting them. So again a handful of them being made and people and more than a handful of people wanting them so again a shortage of the good drove the price up and that's what that's the car is not worth more because there's a shortage just the shortage drove the price up that's all it is and so you can do that with other cars there's been other I mean the Corvette when they come out with some of the specialty editions and different things, there's not many of them. And so the car guys, gals run down there to get one. And as long as there's

an abundance of the thing though, the price goes down. And ultimately the price goes down on all of them that have wheels and motors and so that's what we're looking at. That's a cool question Randy. Interesting. Really made you think there Dave. Yeah. Stretched your brain a little bit. Yeah. Make me scratch the back of my skull. This is the Ramsey Show. We have a debt-free stage in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions. You're welcome to come sit in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions. Watch us do this show Monday through Friday from one to four central time.

There's free homemade cookies and coffee, and there's usually 50 to a couple hundred people sitting out here. At this moment, there's several hundred out here because on that debt-free stage is a very special debt-free scream, one of our own from Ramsey Solutions Rick Prawl is here with his wife Helen or Helene Helene Helene thank you I knew that but I wanted to make sure I got it right so

hey welcome guys congratulations I'm so proud of y'all hey Dave hey George hey now we can't ask you what your income is because all your co-workers are standing around hashtag awkward yeah yeah but but we will ask you what your income is because all your co-workers are standing around tag awkward Yeah, yeah, but but we will ask you everything else how much debt have you paid off? $326,000 in nine years in nine years and I assume that means you people are weird and you paid off your house. We are weird. That's right. That's the house Congratulations, well done. I'm so proud of you Now do you want to go further in this or you want me to leave it alone?

Because you told me some stuff the other day in the hall if I remember I did Actually our story started 29 years ago when a co-worker introduced me to the money game on WTN So I started listening 29 years ago this month Wow and Helene and I actually came to one of the Brentwood Hotel seminars where you were there with your overhead projector. Wow. So it actually changed the trajectory of our life, which was very cool financially,

but a lot of folks will say, well then why'd it take you 29 years to get here? Because we are the poster children for Davish. We knocked out the first two baby steps, and then I thought I might have a better plan and we tried to do three, four and five all at the same time. And it was a train wreck. Um, and it didn't work until you came to work here. 11 years ago. And once you come to work here, 11 years ago, then what happened? We got, we got snow, we got serious. I was teaching FPU,

trying to fill out the baby step three emergency funds so I was actually cleaning headlights on cars. I actually did George's car. Oh, that's right. For about two years. You did a great job on that thing. During the summer. That's right. And that old Chevy Cobalt. That's right.

Made her look real brand new. And then we just, we got serious. And in addition to just a regular mortgage payment, anything that we got extra profit sharing, any extra money that came in, got funneled directly to extra principal payments. Wow. So Rick is one of our product writers. He's been doing content here and helping with ad copy

and other things and writing the product scripts and so forth for 11 years, right? That's right. Working with all you guys on all the books that come out. So it's a, it's fun. I don't know what I would have done without you, Rick, on Breaking Free from Broke. You are a savant at what you do.

We're grateful. Some of his fingerprints are on this one that came out today, Building a Build a Business You Love. That's right. You got involved in that. Definitely. And helped us with that as well.

So you're an incredible, incredible team member. Thank you. So we've enjoyed, it feels like you've been here longer than 11 years. I so we've enjoyed, it feels like you've been here longer than 11 years, I don't know. Sometimes it feels like it, and sometimes it doesn't. It's an eternity, Dave. I don't mean that way, I mean it just feels like

you've been with us forever. You're a part of this place. You're part of this place, you're part of who we are. So we love y'all, I'm so proud of you. How's it feel to have your house paid off? Amazing. It's incredible. The first month, so we paid it off exactly nine years to the day.

I was shooting for that seven year plan that we talked about, but then the market dip in 20 and 21 happened and then we had to replace two vehicles in January of 23. And so then we had to rebuild the emergency fund so it was it was a challenge but I found that's right so February was a big deal celebrated 11 years here paid off the house and became net worth millionaires all the same time baby steps millionaires right so that's what you were telling me at the elevator but I'm gonna bring that up unless you did yeah that's right so we're excited man so so proud of you. Baby Steps Millionaires and Content and Product Principle Product Writer is his technical title.

That's right. It's helping us with all kinds of content now for over a decade and yeah it's hard to write about this stuff and not go do it. Exactly. Yep. We just finished another FPU class three weeks ago. I think I've taught 14, 15 now that we've been here. Wow. And uh. That's good accountability over the years to keep you on the plan. I've discovered, yeah. And Helene has discovered that that helps us

stick to the budget when I'm actually teaching the class. The months that we're not teaching the class I tend to get a little sideways. A little lackadaisical. That's right. Not Helene, but you. Yeah, no, Helene's the one that tries to get me back on there.

Right. I love it. I gotta ask Rick, I know your personal life and your heart for generosity and missions, was that a why in this? Were there other whys as to why you guys did this? I think for us it was just the idea of, as we've talked about here, just not owing anybody anything, and that the money that I'm earning now is all ours. So we took that first month's paycheck,

paid off the balance of a cruise that we're doing in July. So we're trying to use that, but yes, the international mission trip is a big part of that. I love it. You're in your live like no one else era now. Exactly. And he taught FPU in Greece on our international mission. Wow. Oh wow. We had several team members here join us a couple years ago And he taught FPU in Greece on our international mission.

Wow. We had several team members here join us a couple years ago on a trip to Athens and we actually got to teach financial principles to Ukrainian refugees and Syrian refugees. Wow. Very cool. You're a good man. Well, thanks. We're honored to have you on the team and I'm so proud that this stuff has worked to

change your whole complete family tree. Baby Steps Millionaire's house and everything paid for. And you brought the grandkids. Helene watches three of the grandkids every day and the two girls have been practicing with us so they are ready to go. Oh wow. Well let's get them up here. I want to hear some grandkids.

This is a family tree that's been changed in so many ways. Oh they are so cute. They are adorable. You've got gotta be watching on YouTube or Spotify video right now. It is too precious. How cute are you? So what are the names and ages? This is Malin, she's four, and this is Elliston, she's three. And we've got Lincoln who's one over here. So okay so Lincoln's gonna stay off to the side. That'll work. Good stuff. Just an innocent bystander. And both of our children are debt, well they have mortgage but other than that they're debt free.

So they're working. You have changed your family trade. That was, I don't know if you remember 11 years ago when I started Dave, I started in January, in February and both of my kids got married later that year, six months later. And so we started off with two kids getting married and going through FPU that first year or so. Sounds expensive. Yeah, no since I had not had a job before that.

My daughter's budget was $5,000 so she did great. That's incredible. Love it. That's right. Well congratulations y'all, we love you, we're so proud of you and the Ramsey team is out here gathered around because they love you, we're so proud of you. And the Ramsey team is out here gathered around because they love you as well and proud of you too.

So you set a good, a pretty high bar for the rest of the bunch. Oh yeah, we love seeing our team members at Baby Step 7, we celebrate the big around here. I love seeing our team members be millionaires. That's pretty stinking cool right there, man. That's right. That's awesome, so cool stuff.

All right, Rick and Elaine from Lebanon, Tennessee. Ramsey team member for 11 years, housed into everything, paid off $326,000 in the last nine years, and that makes them Baby Steps Millionaires, among other things. Great job, you guys. Count it down, girls, are you ready? Ready?

Three. One, two, three. We're debt free! Yay! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo!

Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo!

Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo!

Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! grandkids and bring cute grandkids that's good I like that and yeah that's great man how fun it's like seeing good people win well I gotta tell you as the owner of this place to have people on our team being able to become wealthy because while they work here doing the stuff that we teach it makes me it makes me weepy man I love it I mean believing in the, still teaching FPU 14, 15 times over now. This guy, he's hardcore. That's rare.

That's rare, rare. We're breathing over here. Yeah, when he writes something, we don't have to worry about what was written. We know exactly what was written. And because it's right online with all the things you teach, I teach. And the personalities are just the mouthpieces

of it out here. And it's guys like that that make this place work. Team behind the scenes. Yeah, very, very cool stuff. Good job you guys, you're heroes man. We're so proud of you. Proud to have you here, proud to have you on the stage and proud to look at those cute kids. They're really cute.

I know, I mean, Rick's a good looking guy but goodness gracious, the kids did really well. There's no explanation in him looking at them. None whatsoever. None. I love it. That's a lot of fun, fun guys. This is the Ramsey Show. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show.

I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. George Campbell, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author is my cohost today. Troy is in Tampa, Florida. Hey Troy, welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hey, good afternoon, Dave. Hey George. Quick question about retirement. I'm 56 years old, currently working baby step two. Only have about 70-80 thousand in our retirement fund and wondering if we should at least contribute up to the

employee match before we get to the end of baby steps which is baby step two which will be in about two and a half years. What do you owe on your consumer debt that's going to take two and a half years? About 70,000. On what? Personal loans stemming from we had some repairs from Hurricane Ian that insurance didn't cover.

We just had those put in place. I have a student loan that we're wrapping up and a car payment. What's your car worth? About $18,000. And what do you owe on it? $18,000. Again, how much in total debt? About $70,000. And so you have again how much in total debt? About 70,000. Okay. We've already paid off about 12,000. Good and what's your household income? 110. Okay.

All right. And you said you're how old one more time? 56. Okay. You don't need to panic you just need to do this and it shouldn't take you two and a half years. If it's gonna take you two and a half years, you need to sell the car. I would pick up extra income somewhere and I would look at what I can sell and get this cleared off and I'm gonna live on nothing. Beans and rice, rice and beans, no eating out, no vacations, no nothing. You've got to get busy because you've got to clear this so that you can lean in hard on the 15% because if you start at 58 and you go to 68 with 15% of your income you're going to be okay. Okay.

And in the meantime get your house paid off too during that same decade. So you go into your early 70s still investing and with a paid-for house, your math is going to be fine. You're not going to be eating dog food. I mean you're going to be, you're not going to be a multimillionaire, but you can make it with this. And the fastest way mathematically to make it is to not screw around with this debt, is to pour everything on it, not change the baby steps. It gets you there faster and the power of focus and the little bit of fear or desperation that makes you say I want to change the steps, I would use that as my motivation to even sacrifice deeper and work more.

Okay. Yeah, let's just clear this stuff and if you're gonna keep the car you're going to work like a maniac because you need to be done in about 18 months here Do you guys have anything in savings? Just emergency fund and how much We have a thousand dollars for that and then I escrow my own Homeowner homeowners insurance and taxes. Yeah, you gotta pay that. So that's all, yeah, it's labeled, it's set aside. So I think we're budgeting right, we're doing the right things, you know, it's just that

little fear factor, you know, do I want to, I don't want to leave any money on the table, but yet again, I want to get rid of this debt. Yeah, it's a fair question. And I don't hear in the way you're asking the question any dysfunction. I think it's just an intellectual exercise and say, okay, I'm game on. What's the best way to play the game at this way? And that's a fair question, but I still think the best way to play is just straight through. what do you think? Well, part of what got us here Troy is doing too many things at once and not really focusing on anything. And my worry is you keep doing that

for the next five to 10 years instead of just getting aggressive like Dave mentioned. And I crunched the numbers for you here with our investment calculator. If you waited until 58 and you started dumping that 15% of that $110,000 income, you'd have a million bucks, but you're gonna have to work into your early 70s. That's with no match and no raises.

That's nothing, no match, no raise, you just keep that exact income. So you did make a million dollars. And so you will have a million, but you'll have to work till you're- I was wrong, I said you weren't gonna make it. He'll have to work till 73, which is not ideal, but for a late start to still have a million bucks,

that's a pretty good life- Oh, you said 73, I said 68. That's where I said, yeah. He's gonna have to work a little longer to hit that. That's not like a magic number that allows you to retire or not, but just a good ballpark to go, okay. Well, the thing is with match and with raises,

he might get there by 68, I might be wrong. Yeah. I didn't think of that. And get the house paid off and start dumping even more on there. It's definitely possible, but. But the goal is to have a good sized nest egg, no debt, including

the house, and that's when you can afford to quit looking over your shoulder. You know, and the fastest way to get there is to work the baby steps. But baby step two, man, it's just unbelievable intensity, unbelievable sacrifice. And truthfully, that getting completely strange and weird is a lot easier at 26 than it is at 56. I mean, it's just, I'm 64. If I had to do that right this second, it would be very, very unpleasant. If Dave was out here delivering pizzas. It'd be very unpleasant. I don't want him showing up at my door, that's all I'm saying. Hey, hey, hey! Yes you do. That would be great. I would actually love that. We should do that

like an undercover. Because you're a good tipper. That's true. I would tip. If I saw Dave at my door, you better believe I'd be tipping well. I'd give him a copy of Total Money Makeover as well. If I show up as your Uber driver with some strange sunglasses. Can we do that as a, can we do that Dave? As a gag? Like an undercover boss situation. Do it as a gag. Undercover baby step tour. I want to get one of those visor hats that has hair sticking out of it. You know those hats. That'd be a great undercover boss. Oh man. That's my, that's my disguise. That'd actually be a great disguise. My alter ego. Bubba. If I see Dave with hair I go, that ain't Dave. Bubba Ramsey is gonna show up here. That ain't Dave, that might be his brother. Oh my goodness. He's my brother. Alright, anyway, Sasha's in Manchester, New Hampshire. Save us from

ourselves, Sasha. How can we help? How are you doing today, Dave? Better than I deserve. How are you? That's what I was waiting for. I'm a big fan of the show and I need your help. Okay. I watch you every day. I've a big fan of the show and I need your help. Okay. I Watch you every day. I've been doing it for like two or three months. Thank you. So here's the deal Oh, yeah, you're very welcome. I actually am trying to go by your seven baby steps and I have a little bit of a unique situation I'm a 43 year old woman out of Manchester, New Hampshire, who lost her husband on January 1st, 2024, in Mojito. I'm sorry.

Thank you. And I'm trying to figure out the seven baby steps, and my problem is my husband took out three different credit cards, one for credit, one for capital once for a four tiba which is a discount furniture did they have your name on them yeah they all do both our names are on them he was trying to increase my credit so I could get question right quick. Yeah, I have $2,914.09 in debt between all three credit cards and two of them I know are in collections and written off. Do I still have to pay them? Yes, they have to be paid.

Or if they're written off, you can settle with them for over the made lower amount if you do that two things get it in writing before you give them any money and do not give them electronic access to your checking account so you cut them up you send them a money order you send them a wire you get my prepaid debit card something like that and you get it in writing. And so let's say one of them is $1,500 and it's been written off, then you got to do that. So you know, you settle it. You got to get that done. So you settle it for pennies on the dollar if it's 1,500 bucks you need to you know offer them 500 bucks settlement in full. Yeah wow yeah okay all right yeah so anyway get it in, no electronic access to your checking account

under any circumstances. Thank you for calling, darling. I hope that helps you. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host George Campbell, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author, co-host of the Smart Money Happy Hour. He's my co-host today at 888-825-5225. Julie's in Providence, Rhode Island. Hi Julie, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Hi Dave, how are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Well, I would like your help please. I am 50 years old. I, my husband of 25 years left in September and I need to figure out how I need to prepare for retiring with almost starting with almost nothing. But we have, yeah, yep. That's what I need. Wow. I'm sorry. What a broken heart. So the two of you have no assets? I rent and are no, in fact I don't. I have my car. I'm talking about him. He has no money.

Nope. So you're 50 years old and you're broke. Yeah, well I have two small, yeah, yeah, I have two small 401ks, that's it. Okay. And my baby, my step one, and I have my second one. Yeah, but um, so another, what I'm making sure I understand is, is that you're not, um, improperly looking at the divorce in terms of, he's not walking away with any money at all. Um, no, we each have one vehicle. He has a 401k that's probably about equal to, uh, the two of mine. Um, and no, we don't have any any assets no bank accounts no savings how much is in the 401k again mine

combined I have $22,000 what's your car worth probably 3,000 I own a 2011 Ford Tundra. Okay. What do you make? I mean, sorry. I may, actually I'm an ER nurse. I made like $200,000 last year. Why are you guys broke? Congress, Dave, to be perfectly honest. Spending like you're in Congress. Mm-hmm, yep. Okay, all right.

How much debt do you have? I'm sorry? How much debt do you have total? The debt that we have is actually IRS debt. I don't have credit card debt because I wanna live the Ramsey life. It's IRS debt because of not claiming properly and we have a payment arrangement set up with them but it's

like $347 a month. How much do you owe the IRS? $19,409. Okay. And then I know that he has date tax but I don't know how much of that I'm going to be held responsible for. We actually go to court next week. Okay. All right. All right. Your biggest challenge listening to this is not the math. Your biggest challenge is the broken heart and the reset that

you didn't see coming. And ready for it. And all the negative past. So in other words, if we were to take this exact same math and say, I'm an ER nurse, I make 200k, I got 19k in debt, I got a $3,000 car and I got a little bit in a 401k, and I'm 22 years old and I'm not married and I've never made any financial mistakes, that person would be able to go build wealth very, very quickly. But they don't have the tapes running in their head. Like I screwed up all these years and this jerk ran off and ruined our 25 year dream and broke my heart. They don't have that stuff to overcome.

All they've got is 200 K and let's go get some. to overcome. All they've got is 200k and let's go get some. So my point is this is very doable to the extent that you can put the past in the rear view mirror and learn from it but not dwell on it in terms of the mistakes you all have made for the last 30 years with money, the overspending and whatever else causes you to be 50 years old and broke making 200k. You have to put that in the rear view mirror and say all right new version of Julie here we go and the natural grieving and healing from a broken heart that allows you to, you'll always have that part of your heart broken but you will be able to, you know, as you grieve and heal, rise above it and it goes in the rear

view mirror as well. This doesn't feel like that today but that, to the extent you do those two things with your heart, then the math is fairly easy. You make 200k. You don't have any debt except a tiny little bit. Get yourself on a written budget. ER nurse, you can work all the time. You can make 300k. You could work away your grief for a short period of time. For two years you just work 70-80 hours and bring in 300k.

You could stack up 200 grand in two or three years you see what I'm talking about no I do mathematically work like an animal for three years and just just be pissed off and work all the time you know kind of stay too busy to spend yeah too busy to spend and too busy to grieve I don't want you I'm not I don't want you to do that. I do want you to grieve properly and I do want you to put this horrible thing in the rearview mirror and but process it properly. But I'm just saying if you just went bananas and you lived on 50 or 60 K and

you made 200 more than that you stacked 200 for three years, that's 600 K and you're only 54 years old when we're talking about this so you're you're okay because you have a fabulous career and a fabulous income and you really don't have a big old pile of debt you didn't call me up with 300 000 in debt no you know you don't have a credit card problem. You do have a consumption problem, but you've recognized that and you've got to decide to unplug whatever the methodology is you're using to buy to buy all that crap, whether it's Amazon or something else, you need to unplug it and just get

really, really focused and go, hey, this is my encore. This is that when I take the second bow, the curtain goes up up I'm gonna take one more bow and we're gonna play the final three greatest hits songs here and I got about 25 years to do that from 55 to 75 and I'm gonna have 5 million bucks that's possible oh I mathematically it is it's got everything to do with Julie

I just gave you the outline though. Yep. I mean mathematically you because you've got such earning potential and you're you're not starting in a hole you're starting at zero but you're not starting really in a hole. You follow me? Yeah, yeah I just need to get that IRS. Yeah I mean it's 19 grand. I mean you do that in three months. It's gone. That's gone. And he's gonna, supposed to be pick up some of it anyway. But you get a fresh start.

And the good news is you ain't got anybody to tell you what to do. You just gotta go tell Julie what to do. You got one person to control here. And that's kind of good news in this case. So you hang on, we're going to get you with a coach, with a Ramsey coach, because I want you to have the next chapter be awesomeness. And I think it can be, but you, you, hey, sit down with a good therapist

or a good counselor and work through this stuff, kiddo, because it's real. 25 years is a lot to grieve. I'm Dave Ramsey your host George Kamel is here today is that Ramsey Network app question if you don't know what that is you need to tune in on the Ramsey Network app most of you are right this second and you can download a ton of everything happening on Ramsey including

the opportunity to send an email like this one George. Yeah we got a great question here from Dylan. He said, I've heard Dave's advice to contribute 15% to retirement accounts in Baby Step 4. In seasons, I've been tempted to back it down and others to ramp it up and save more like 20%. Can you explain why you landed on 15% and does it ever make sense to back it down or raise it up?

That's a good question. And there is no magic to this from my understanding. This is sort of a standard financial planning principle and the idea is that if you do it too much, you're not going to have enough money to throw at Baby Step 5 for college, Baby Step 6 for the house. And if you don't do enough, you're not going to retire with a big enough nest egg. Yeah, and there's no magic to 15. I mean, you call it 16, you call it 17, you call it 14, you can call it 20. I mean you can call it that, but I ran the numbers in the early days of Financial Peace University on someone barely making it at the poverty level.

In those days I used $20,000 a year income and I ran the numbers up to about $250,000 in income and I just kind of did break points every $40,000, $50,000 along. I did some break points and said okay if this happened and if you and I just said if you never got a raise, which is unrealistic, okay would you have enough because and then you look at those, what is the disposable income left over after you put that percentage into retirement? Because disposable income is the income left over to enjoy, to be generous, and to pay down the house. Because I wanted to try to get the house paid off in seven to ten years. And that's what's ended up happening, by the way. If you put more in, the house doesn't end up getting paid off, on average.

And if you put less in, you don't end up with what you should have ended up with, because you miss out on the compound interest and the market growth. Because here's the deal, if you start this stuff and you invest you know this George for I'll see you invest for 25 years or more somewhere around 95 to 97 percent of the money in your 401k is growth not your contributions not your, but the growth comes due to the contributions So when you say I'm gonna put in 13% to 15 you don't just reduce the results by 2% you reduce them exponentially and the same would be true if you went from 15 to 20 though, but when you go to 15 to 20 you reduce the

Results on getting the home paid off exponentially so you slow down this burst of mathematics that occurs when the house gets paid off. Because see what happens when you clear baby step seven with the house paid off, now we're not putting 15% away. Now we can put away just about whatever we want. You put 15% plus your old house payment at a minimum. Probably ratchets it up to 20, 25, 30, maybe even more. You max out.

You end up maxing out all the other stuff. And so then what happens is all of a sudden your wealth building goes into overdrive. And so where you were aiming at maybe a million or two million, now you're aiming at five to 10 million. And depending on where you are and what the time scope is on the compound interest. But that's mathematically what happened when I ran these case studies out and said, okay, if you're $20,000 a year and you never get a raise, you save 15%, that came out, if I remember, something like $200-something thousand dollars you'd have.

Make it $20,000. For poverty level. Yeah. Wow. From 25 to 65, right? And so from 25 to 65, if you made $50,000, what would you have? Well, you know, you'd have a house. What would the price range of the house be? We estimated that and say most of that's mortgaged, so we got to get that mortgage paid off. We use that amount. So okay, can we do that with the leftover money? Well, it's very hard to do if you kick it up to 20 and

so when you screw around with the formula Dylan what ends up happening is you don't get the house paid off fast enough or You don't have enough going in over here in the 401k You're starving it or you're starving the house payoff one of the two and this just seemed to be a real good middle line But what you said, it's not it's not even a financial planning principle I made it up it's not and then I just tested it I stress tested my idea against a spectrum of incomes by running the case studies out running the math out and that's how I did it so it's not right I mean I'm not a genius or anything but so you can do whatever you want to do the The trick is now that the,

we've got the social proof that 10 million people have done this and literally millions and millions of millionaires. And so why screw with it? Just do it. It's not broken. Just, you know, why, why mess with it? Um, you can, if you want, if you want to make up your own program, you're welcome to do whatever you want to do You're like you're like grown-ups out there and stuff but You know, it's like

If you've got someone that 10 million people have lost weight using this particular calorie count diet Type of thing not not just a theory. It's not just looking at calorie burn, it's not looking at that, it's an actual, there's social proof of 10 million people doing this and a million of them have lost substantial weight and now you decided that you're overweight, while you're overweight, that you're going to figure out how to fix this. Why? I guess just you feel like you're intellectually above it. You go,

well my plan is going to be better. It's usually justification. It's a good question. I'm not picking on you Dylan, but it is interesting to me that we human beings, particularly we Americans, me too, I don't automatically submit myself to a system. But if I'm going to, it needs to be something that has significant social proof that the data is in on it. It's not someone's best guess or theory. Now when I originally came up with 15, it was my best guess or theory based on running

spreadsheets out, running out case studies. That's where I came up with it. But that's an interesting thing to unpack for everybody out there. So here's the deal, the baby steps are not in the Bible. I made them up. And then I changed them and adjusted them in the early days to get them to work, to give you a clear path to implement biblical principles. The biblical principles, you can't argue with those. You're just arguing with God and that's dumb. Okay?

Bad idea. Bad idea. But borrow or slave to the lender, okay, let's get out of debt. Period. Yeah. A foolish man devours all he has. You spend everything they make, you're a fool. Live on less than you make. You know, in the house of the wise there are stores of choice, food and oil. Save money. It's wise. But then, you know, what we did was try to give you a path, a clear path to run on, and that's how the baby steps evolved. And you know, one of the places I heard this was actually John Wesley, the famous evangelist from one

of the great revivals in the early days of America, in the frontier days of America, the Methodist revival. And he said make all you can, give all you can, save all you can. And he also said save 10%, give 10%, live on 80% and you'll always have money. And that's not a bad formula. Not a bad formula. Itands the test of time. It's it, you know, that if you actually, I ran that out too.

I thought, well, maybe that's the thing to do. And I ran that out, but I kept running into stuff like, you know, the things that Wesley didn't have, which would be an employer match on a 401k. And 79% of the companies right now in America that have a 401k, 8 out of 10, have some kind of employer match and have a Roth option. And so you know that's not something that comes into that formula at all. And we've democratized investing back in those days there was less options. There was no investing but he was right

if you save some and give some and live on some, you're gonna be okay. And that's not, you know, so you're talking about the tithe, 10% of your income, right? Giving 10 and saving 10. So all of that has kind of gone into the background on the baby steps 30 years ago when we put this stuff together. But now, not because it's biblical but because 10 million people have done it successfully you know I know some of you immature children that live in your mother's basement say we're snake oil salesmen but we're not we you know we might have been in the early days you could have accused us of that because but the problem is now the snake oil

worked dang it our bot limit and so the scam is out it worked but the problem is now the snake oil worked. Dang it, our bot limit? Yeah and so the scam is out, it worked. And the show is free by the way so we're not great salesmen at that point. Yeah that's true but you know you can do this folks that's the bottom line so no Dylan I wouldn't change it that's why. It's a good discussion. Good discussion. George Campbell Ramsey personality is my co-host. Brian's in Chattanooga. Hey Brian, how are you? Hey Dave and George.

How's it going guys? Better than we deserve, sir. Of course. I see on my screen, you're one of those baby steps, millionaires I was just talking about. I am. And part of that Dave too, is we actually were classmates at the University of Tennessee in finance. No way! When we both had hair. Oh wow! Now there it is you learned all you needed to

know it Glocker huh? Yeah, I was a Glocker in the spam can. I love it man that's fun very cool Very cool. Very cool. All right, what's your net worth, brother? Just a little over 10 million. 10 million, good for you. And break that down for me a little bit by category. Sure, I've got, of course,

I've paid for that $2.1 million home, about three and a half in a Roth IRA, about three and a half million in a brokerage account. And like you, I am a car guy, so I've got about $400,000 worth of cars sitting in the driveway. Whoa! Okay. But you got ten million dollars. So it's four percent of your net worth. Yeah. Can you tell some of your favorite cars out of curiosity? Yeah. So I've got a Porsche 911 Turbo S oh yeah my wife just got a new Range Rover Range Rover supercharged it came in in December that's good because I heard they're gonna quit making him for a little while that's what I heard as well

yeah wow that's a beast. Both of those are great cars. And you got a couple of others sitting there too. Yeah. Yeah. Very cool. So you're 64. Yes. All right. I knew that.

Okay, good. And how much of this did you and your wife inherit? Actually about $20,000 when my dad passed away back in 2005. so not a lot. Safe to say mathematically you do not have $10 million because of an inheritance. No. I was already a millionaire when he passed away. Yeah, wow. What's been your career? I worked in medical sales for years.

I retired two years ago and just doing some consulting on the side now and enjoying. I've got two kids that are finishing up in May in college, one finished two years ago, and both paid for full paid for college, no college debt for them. So I'm looking forward to having some grand babies sometime soon. Well, it's about time. I know. Good stuff.

Okay, so you made a good income, because medical sales, you're making what, two or 300K? Yeah, I think the max probably, Dave, I made was around 500 one year, and started in the you know fifty thousand dollar range many years ago. Yeah when 50 was a lot of money. Yeah yeah seemed like it anyway. Yeah okay so you made really good money and you just what do you what do

you say the secret to having ten million dollars at retirement at 64 years old is? You know I learned a long time ago you know just like you did from grandparents you you only buy what you can afford and you pay cash for it and you limit debt. But for me, I saved, we saved, I shouldn't say I because it was both of us, but we saved about 40% of our income and it, you know, it allowed my wife to be a stay-at-home mom for the last 30 years but we saved and lived well but did not go overboard on things. You avoided lifestyle creep.

Yeah, and it's made it nice now because we can do anything pretty much that we want. Amen. How long ago did you pay off your house? Gosh, probably 15 years ago. Yeah. So that kicked it into overdrive too, because when you paid off the house, it was probably worth less than a million. Yeah, I would say right around there. Oh yeah, yeah, had to be. Yeah. Okay, and so that's doubled and then, or over doubled, and then you've got that increased cash flow during that time. It's easy to save because you're making serious money. You can save 40% and still have a great life. Sure. Yeah, it's been good.

We've been blessed throughout the whole time. And you know, of course learned a lot of things along the way and your, your program and your work helped us along. And, and I think more than for me, Dave, it's helped my family understand more about how I do things. And it's really, I think, set a path for them as they move forward with their careers and families and I think that's what I'm most appreciative of with you.

Yeah, well thank you brother. Well it's good to talk to you. That's very cool. What a great trip down. Well I was excited to talk to George too. Man, standing ovation in the... Oh, that's right, from the students earlier talk to George, too. Man, standing ovation in the... Oh, that's right, from the students earlier.

Yeah. Thank you. I was excited about talking to Dave, but it was more excited to talk to George. I just wanted you to air out some dirt on Dave from your classmate days, but I figure you're gonna keep those secrets. Well, it was funny.

I mean, we did a couple of works with a couple of small projects in the rooms there that we used to have to do, but we ran probably in different sections and stuff and I think Dave had a serious girlfriend then and I didn't so we were running different routes. It worked out for both of you, I gotta say. Yeah, we both have done well.

Still my girlfriend 43 years later, so there you go. I knew that. I met her in Glocker in marketing class. So Brian, very cool. Good to talk to you, my friend. I'm proud of you. Way to go. $10 million net worth, ladies and gentlemen.

I need a where are they now from your entire class. Find out what happened to everybody. Are they all millionaires after taking that class? Was it that good of a class? I don't, I can't blame it on the class. Dave has no recollection he was busy hanging out with his girlfriend I think. Yeah that's it. He was just there so he didn't get fined. That's it. Uh, Dalen is with us in Phoenix, Arizona. Hey Dalen what's up? Did I do that wrong?

He's on there. Dalen are you with us? Dalen? Yeah can you hear me? There we go. There we go. What's up man? Hey, yeah, I'm doing fine. How are you? Good. What's up? Hey, I'm just wondering, I bought a truck last year in October. I didn't know as much about cars and I went down to buy a different truck and it got sweeped out from under me and I ended up with a truck that's worth 20,000 and I paid about 40,000.

Um, and I'm, I still owe, I still have 36. Does that make sense? No. Why would you do that? Doesn't make sense at all. I did you have a, did you have another car that you're, I'm sorry, wait at all. Did you have another car that you... I'm sorry, wait a minute. Did you have another car you were upside down in? So no, I did not. So how this happened, I don't know why the salesman did this, but it is what it is. What happened is I went down for a car I studied and I knew that was going to be a good car for a good price,

around $20,000 to run my business out of. I went down to pick it up and it got swooped out from under me and I needed to start work immediately because I had jobs lined up. That's why I was picking up a car, it was because I knew I had work. Then I looked at the rest of the cars and it was already pretty late and if I didn't come back with a car I would be screwed. So I

ended up getting a car, an eco diesel and I thought it was you know a pretty good deal for a diesel and low mileage and all that stuff and I didn't know. I just didn't know. I was young I didn't know much anything about cars. Wasn't this like five months ago? It was last October... You're saying when you were young like it was 20 years ago. This is like yesterday. The last thing is that I know a lot more about... It's not yesterday. It was...

It wasn't last October. It was the one before last. Got it. Okay. I've had the car for about a year now. I didn't know much about cars altogether. I just knew about this one car I was coming down to look at. How old are you honey? I'm 22 now. Okay and so you're telling me you literally paid $40,000 for a car that at the time was worth 20? Yeah well and the engine actually blew immediately too and I ended up because I got the I got the warranty I ended up

Getting it replaced Without any deductible or anything like that. Did you actually pay? 40,000 for the car or that was everything wrapped up together Including the ripoff finance and including the ripoff extended warranty. It's just that's the including everything. Yeah I think you got it. I think you're I think you're misstating what happened. I don't think you paid forty thousand for the car. I think that's the total of payments and I don't think your payoff is as you sixteen thousand upside down. I think the balance on your subprime loan, high interest rate loan, shows TOP total of payments of 16,000 upside down, but that's not your payoff.

And so you need to get a financial person to look at this with you and unpack it and find out what your actual payoff is before you move forward on this and then you can get the thing sold and get out of it. Ouch! And then you can get the thing sold and get out of it. Ouch. Romans 13, 7 is our scripture of the day. Pay to all what is owed to them. Taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed and honor to whom honor is owed. Donald Trump said money was never a big motivation for me except as a way to keep score. The real excitement is playing

the game. It probably comes from art of the deal right there. Sounds like it. First book out. I bet you that's what that comes from. But that's probably still true today. He enjoys a good fight. I'm here to pick a fight. He does like more conflict. I'm going to pick a fight. All right, let's see here. Claire's in Lexington. Hey Claire, what's up? Well, my husband and I are in our seventies. We, we aren't really wealthy. Like you're one of your colleagues recently, but we had a nice nest egg. Um, I guess we were baby step millionaires. So, um, we have a family member who's actually my age and last week she was stamped out

of $45,000. No one really understands exactly what happened except she called a number and an email or text that she got and ended up going to several different banks with drawing money and ultimately put it in a drop coin or I mean a Bitcoin drop box. Is that a thing? I don't know. Anyway she lost lost forty five thousand dollars. There's nothing anyone can do. She did it Yeah, and she's smart and no one saw any kind of slippage coming obviously something went wrong in her brain to Allow her to do that

And we I want to know what we can do to protect in case our brains suddenly go wacko to keep us from doing Something like that right now. We're both sharp we can do to protect in case our brains suddenly go wacko to keep us from doing something like that. Right now we're both sharp. I don't think that's early onset dementia. I don't think that's the issue. I don't think her brain slipped. My experience, and I've worked with several hundred people over the last 40 years that have been scammed and i i read a book in this that was written in the sixties or seventies uh... by a guy who was in jail

called con man or saint and uh... it was his book about himself and if he thought he was a saint but he was in jail so he was a con man okay but uh... it was kind of almost humorous, but it outlined the entire thing he had done to end up running a, you know, a made-off Ponzi scheme and going to jail, and that's what he had done, and stealing from people just like the person stole from your relative. But he made one statement in there that it

was absolute truth, and I found it to be true in everyone I've worked with. You cannot get scammed. It's very, he said it's very hard to scam someone unless you can activate in that person greed or fear. Yeah. Easy money. I can take this forty thousand, I can put it in a Bitcoin and I can make four hundred thousand. That's greed. Or fear. I had a relative that they became convinced that these people had all the internet codes on their children and were going to steal from them if they didn't pay them off. And it was completely bogus, didn't happen, they didn't have the codes, but they activated fear and caused them to just, this is a normally fairly intelligent person, but when they became very very afraid, what happens is it shuts down the thinking centers of your brain. You go into lizard brain and you

just go into survival mode and greed does the same thing. It shuts down the thinking centers. And so, you know, if you ever have a moment where you say, okay, I'm gonna go play the lottery with a million dollars because I know I can turn it into two million dollars because somebody found a system. Well that's greed. You know that's not gonna work. You and I know sitting here with a calm mind that is not clouded by a wash of hormones across our brain shutting our brain, our thinking ability down. You know we know sitting here right now that's absurd and we know what she believed. I think she probably,, although you wouldn't normally think of this person as a greedy person, in that moment she thought she was going to get

double or triple her money in a very short period of time, didn't she? I think it was something to do with an Amazon account that had been hacked or something. And you know, like I said, she can hardly talk about it and we're getting it third hand anyway. So we're not exactly sure what happened. I don't think it was great. The other thing, the other, the other. So if you can act, keep yourself from being activated on either one of those two things. And one of the best ways to do that is just set a pact with common-sense people. Now in your case I think she's not married, she's probably widowed. So the other thing the con people will do is to isolate you.

If you contact your children or you contact anyone about this, we will immediately do this. There's a scam going around that you get an email from the local sheriff's department that if you don't bring $5,000 up there in the next 45 minutes, that they are going to come arrest you. They've got an outstanding warrant for your arrest. And so, of course what happens is that, you know, a friend of mine got one of those and he called me and he goes, what am I gonna do? And I said, just call the Sheriff's Department. He goes, what do you mean? I said, call the Sheriff's Department. He called him and said, I just got this email and they said, ignore it, it's bogus, it's a scam. Yeah. But he didn't call the number on the email. He looked up the

sheriff's department. He went straight to the sheriff's department. So if Amazon, if you get a thing that says your Amazon's been hacked, don't go through that link, just go over here and contact Amazon. But don't be isolated. Yeah, don't be isolated. Yeah, okay. So get a second opinion, be skeptical, trust your gut. And there are some great services, Claire, that can help with this. They're really affordable.

Number one is Xander ID Theft Protection. Dave has this on all the team members here at Ramsey. It's a few bucks a month, and it will give you the peace of mind that if something did happen, they will help recover all the money, recover your life. It won't on a Bitcoin scam. No, if you willingly gave money, that's different. It peace of mind that if something did happen, they will help recover all the money, recover your life. It won't on a Bitcoin scam.

No, if you willingly gave money, that's different. It won't do that. But it's one way to help people. If someone used your identity, now that's different, and Sandra would cover that for sure. And then the other one is called Delete Me, Claire, and Delete Me will go in and they will remove your info

from all these data broker sites, which is probably what caused this phishing message that she got because they had her information from the data broker sell it for a profit. And so that's another service that we've partnered with. You can jump on to join deleteme.com slash Ramsey and check them out. They're a great service to help prevent those phishing scams

that are out there. Don't try to get something for nothing. Don't cave to fear. Don't try to get something for nothing. Don't cave to fear. Don't cave to fear, greed and fear. And don't isolate. Always have someone before you make a big move that you've promised that you're going to talk to so and so. So in her case she says, I'm going to call my son before I make any financial moves or whoever. Yeah, if she'd have called her son, he would have started laughing and said no mom that's a scam.

Yeah, so would this also protect against, must she, deed appropriation? What do you call that? A Zander ID theft would take care of a fraudulent deed transfer. Fraudulent deed transfers hardly ever happen. Yeah. They almost never happen. Your identity gets stolen pretty regularly and they do open credit cards in people's identity every day. That's not unusual at all. But the fraudulent deed transfer, it's more hype than reality. The actual number of deeds that get fraudulent transfer is almost

zero. There's very, very few of them really occur. So I wouldn't worry about that one. But again, if you get something that disturbs you and you feel your heart rate going up and a little bit of sweat coming in the palms of your hand, that's fear. Yeah. Like the, you know, the sheriff's department, my buddy called me, he was upset. Sheriff's department's coming to arrest me. They say I got $5,000 and an outstanding warrant. What do I do? And I'm like, you can call the Sheriff's Department, dude. And worst case, you drive over there. You got, you got, the guy had $4 million. He's not worried about $5,000. If he had an outstanding warrant,

he'd pay the $5,000 on the site, you know, when he walked in the front door. But, but these people can convince them and then they want to meet you in the Walmart parking lot. So never mind, don't meet at the Sheriff's office. And settle the warrant. Now listen, that's the other thing. If you have to meet in the front door, but these people can convince them and then they want to meet you in the Walmart parking lot and settle the warrant. If you have to meet in the Walmart parking lot, that's a problem. If you're buying your dog in the Walmart parking lot, it's probably the wrong dog. I'm just saying. Nothing against Walmart, but shady stuff happens in the parking lot. That puts us out of the Ramsay show in the books.

We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.