The Ramsey Show - App - Keep Holding On—The Fun is Coming! (Hour 1)

Episode Date: April 4, 2019

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it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Well, I need to just tell you thank you. And on behalf of Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, and my daughter, the contentment journal that she put out, our team put out, 90 days of journaling through gratitude to humility to contentment, 30 days on each, being led by her on Instagram starting a little bit later this month. It came out this week.

We launched it this week, and it's running like 100 and something on Amazon, like 150, 140 on Amazon, which means it's selling like crazy. So thank you, guys. We appreciate it. And certainly it's selling like crazy here at DaveRamsey.com and RachelCruz.com. But we appreciate it. Thank you. It's a great idea, and it's good writing by her. And it's really theologically sound and philosophically sound stuff.

Gratitude leads to humility, leads to contentment. These are three good things that all of us could add a little bit more of to our cup, me included. Brad is on the line. Brad is in St. Louis. Hi, Brad. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave.

Hey, what's up? How can I help? Yeah, so I'm looking to get some advice on behalf of my mom. Obviously, she doesn't know I'm calling. She'd probably be pretty embarrassed. So I was speaking to her recently about retirement, just in general terms, and she mentioned that she wasn't taking her employer match, which puzzled me, for her 401K. And then we started talking more, and I learned that she's about $10,000 in credit

card debt. And I don't know for sure, but if I had to guess, she's currently making $13,000 to $15,000 an hour. And so it's pretty daunting debt. And I was able to convince her to start taking her 401k match from her employer. But I know that with her current income and paying mortgage on the house, that I don't think she'll be able anytime soon to really attack that. And I'm wondering how I can best help her help herself. How old is she? She's about, I think she's 59, coming on 60. Also, don't tell her I said that either.

Well, unless she calls, I'm not going to be talking to her. Okay, very good. Okay, and that makes you what, 30? No, actually I'm about 25. Okay, all right, cool. Well, basically what there is are several problems going on that stem back to the fact that she's not looking at her money situation holistically, meaning you've got to zoom back from the house payment, zoom back from the income, zoom back from the income zoom back from the credit card debt zoom back from the mismatch and say what's all happening here and uh so then we start to say well is the house payment

too big based on the income then if it is that means one of them has to change yeah and it's probably the income it's probably time for her her to explore some better options with income. She's not making much money. And, you know, it might be that she was widowed or divorced a few years ago, and she's never really gotten her marketplace confidence up. And that might be the best place to encourage her is to get her in touch with ken coleman's stuff uh on you know getting in proximity with proximity principle and you know how to put the how to put a job search together a career plan together and at 59 it's not over i'm 58 i'm

planning on doing a lot before i die still so she's got plenty of time. And I know that sounds old when you're 25, but when you're 58, 59 doesn't sound very old. So let's zoom back. Let's look at the income, and let's get that up. Then does the house payment fit? Your house payment, if it's much more than a fourth of your take-home pay, it's very difficult to prosper. Okay? Now, then we very difficult to prosper. Okay?

Now, then we're going to work her right up the baby steps using a budget. Get her on EveryDollar. You can help her do that. Get that EveryDollar app on her phone. Teach her how to put together a budget. And say, Mom, I've been learning about these baby steps. Let's get $1,000 saved. Let's get these credit cards cut up.

Let's get you on a budget. Get your income up. Let's attack the credit card debt. Get rid get you on a budget get your income up let's attack the credit card debt get rid of it let's build an emergency fund and then let's start really putting money into an investment with the company match over here she probably could make a ton of progress in one year and if she did that uh in by age 60 and then had 10 years to age 70 of working, making more money and aggressively piling money into her house to where it gets paid off and into her 401k, you know, we could set her up for a 70 to a 75-year-old retirement that looks pretty good.

It's still doable. But it's probably going to involve all of those things. Zooming back and saying, okay, we've got to get the income up, or we've got to get rid of the house payment and get into a cheaper place, one of the two. Probably, though, it's an income issue because you kind of led with that, that she's not making much money. And what do we got to do to help her do that?

Well, KenColeman.com. Ken's got all kinds of resources over there for resumes, all kinds of resources over there for resumes, all kinds of resources over there for interviewing. Get her listening to his podcast on finding the job you love, making more money. And sometimes that's part of the equation. So you're a good man to help her out that way. Hey, thanks for calling in. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Sarah is in Oklahoma City. Hi, Sarah. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call. Sure. What's up? I really appreciate it.

I just had a quick question. I have been cleaning for going on about 10 years, and I guess I'm at a point of frustration a little bit of how to grow my business and keep it consistent um i just do residential mainly i've done some commercial but um i struggle with um you know building up a good clientele and when you lose a big client and then it's like it really affects your income and so like how do i avoid that or how can I grow my business better to where I can, you know, where it's a real business and not just me doing it? Gotcha.

If that makes sense. Yeah, it does, because when you don't work, you don't get paid, which means you own your job more than you own a business. Right. And so we've got to grow it. There's a couple of things you can do. Like you said, one, you could move towards commercial and take on bigger jobs, or you could move towards hiring and training people and take on houses that are cleaned by people who work for you. And you could be a player coach. You could also keep doing cleaning during that time.

And, you know, here's the thing I've noticed in business. The more customers I have, the less it hurts when I lose one. Right. And so that's what I'm thinking in your situation is we've got to get you more customers. And, you know, maybe even get to the point that there's almost like a waiting list to get you. Right. How do I get there? Well, that's the marketing side of the equation, meaning marketing is gathering up new customers. And the best place to get those is a referral from your existing customers.

And, you know, just get people in line for you and raise your prices and then add some people to your staff and grow it that way. Hold on. I'll send you a copy of Christy Wright's book, Business Boutique. It will definitely help you with all that. The last thing I want you to feel is buyer's remorse, especially when you offered thousands more on a new home to win a bidding war. If I've taught you anything, it's that blindly throwing money at a problem is a stupid plan

and something you'll regret for years. The key to avoiding this rookie mistake is to call Churchill Mortgage and get certified. This easy program puts you miles ahead of your competition because you are pre-underwritten. Your interest rate is secured, and yes, you can close within 14 days. Don't fall into the trap of offering more money just to compensate for a poor plan. Call Churchill Mortgage today and get certified. Call 888-LOAN-200 or visit churchillmortgage.com. This is a paid advertisement. NMLS ID 1591.

NMLSconsumeraccess.org. Equal housing lender. 761 Old Hickory Boulevard, Brentwood, Tennessee 37027. Lance is with us in Corpus Christi, Texas. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show, Lance. Hi. What's up? I just had a quick question. I'm in a municipal retirement system.

Before I was with the county retirement system. I have about $10,000 in my county retirement system. I can opt to pull that out and pay the debt off. I'm 30, so I still have quite a while before I even think about retiring. I just want to make sure it's a good idea. It's not. I would roll it to an ira and here's why when you pull money out of a retirement system early you get charged a 10 penalty plus your tax rate and so you're going to be paying 35 40 on this money so it's kind of like saying dave i

want to borrow money at 40 interest 30 interest to pay off my debt. You would never do that. Okay. And so get with a SmartVestor Pro and roll it to an IRA in a good mutual fund, in some good growth stock mutual funds, and it'll perform for you, and you're not giving up a third of your money to the government. And so we tell people not to cash out retirement to pay off debt, even though we want you out of debt, but not to do that unless it's to avoid bankruptcy or foreclosure, and that's not your situation. Travis is with us in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. Hi, Travis.

How are you? I'm doing well. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. What's up? So I met with my smart investor pro yesterday, and I'm on pace to make over $200,000 a year this year, which does not allow me to contribute to the Roth IRA. He's actually encouraging me to use mutual funds instead of a backdoor Roth,

and I wanted your thoughts on that. Why would you not do a backdoor Roth? Well, I make over the amount. You can do a backdoor Roth? Well, I make over the amount. You can do a backdoor Roth if you make over the amount. I asked him, should I do a backdoor Roth? And he encouraged me just to go straight mutual funds instead. Why? He said the paperwork involved with the backdoor Roth is cumbersome.

And he said tax advantages long-term may not be what I'm hoping they would be by using the backdoor Roth versus just going straight mutual funds. That's bad advice. Sorry I sent you to him. I do a backdoor Roth every year, and my wife and I do one every January. And the paperwork's not that cumbersome. It's five pieces of paper. It's not that big a deal. And it grows completely tax-free from that point forward in good mutual funds.

You're still in mutual funds. The only difference is how the mutual fund is treated for taxes. An IRA is not an actual investment. It's how an investment is treated for taxes. But, no, I would do a Roth IRA, and I'll help you get another Smart smart vestor pro uh so i'll put you on hold and kelly will pick up and we'll find out who that guy is and maybe we'll have a teachable moment for him oh brother open phones this hour 888-825-5225 rachel is in lansing michigan. Hi, Rachel. How are you? Hi.

I'm sorry. I'm nervous. It's okay. Good to talk to you. No troubles. How can I help? So I graduated in 2016, and my plan was to go to law school a year later, and life happened. I'm sorry.

Say the first part again. I planned to go to law school. I graduated in 2016. Oh, graduated. I planned to go a year later okay which is b17 and now we're at 19 and life kind of happened so um now i'm rethinking it again and i want to know if i should pay off my student loans and my debt i'm working on credit card debt right now um and i was wondering if i should pay off my student loans first or i guess just go when i would be making more and then worry about my student loans after but i would continue to pay off my student loans first or, I guess, just go when I would be making more

and then worry about my student loans after. But I would continue to pay. How much student loan debt do you have? It's about $55. I graduated undergrad with about $30. I took a few grad school classes, and I kind of overdid it. I was pregnant the first time I tried and didn't complete the classes. Then after I had my daughter, I tried to take classes again, but it was just too much.

So I made a few stupid decisions in that area. Okay, so you have $55,000 in student loan debt. How much credit card debt do you have? About $7,000. Okay. And what does your husband do? I'm a single mom. You're a single mom.

Okay. And what do you do? I work for the state of michigan making one and i'm looking um about 40 and i'm looking now to get another job as a paralegal um trying to get i guess my stuff together to try to get another job as a paralegal now because i make at least about 50 so that'd be at least a $10,000 increase. Mm-hmm. Okay. All right.

And your child is in daycare. Well, her dad watches her during the day because he works overnight. And then when I get off work at 5, he goes to sleep and I kind of take over. So since I have her the majority of the time, I kind of – You live with her dad? No, he just is at my house when he's on the day because all of her stuff is at my house. Oh, I see. Okay. Yeah, it's just kind of he has his own apartment.

But I have her, you know, when I get off work and on weekends. So how would you logistically with with this situation, go to law school? I would plan on going, like I live in Lansing, so I would plan to go to MSU or Wayne State, which is in Detroit, so nearby. My mom isn't tired, and since law school classes, mainly during the day, she would be in daycare or school during the day. And then I would just do it during. And how would you eat and pay rent while you're doing this?

Well, I'm planning. That's why I'm kind of inquiring. I'm planning to get a scholarship. Well, I'm hoping to get a scholarship. That's why I want to study in advance for the LSAT. Yeah, but if you were going to school during the day, how would you eat and pay rent while you're going to law school? If I get a scholarship, there's a...

Scholarships don't pay for rent and food. They pay for tuition. Well, I would seek other grants or stays in the process because I wouldn't be going this year. You kind of do everything for the year, the next year. So I would have enough time to logistically hopefully stay for a year and then work 2L. So I wouldn't want to work my first year because a lot don't let you.

Or if I do, I would work part-time. And then 2L I would find out. Why do you want to go to law school? I've always wanted to go since I was a kid. I mean, this was supposed to happen because I actually want to work in the criminal justice field and work with the corrections and

prisons and stuff like that. Okay. I mean, I do have a passion for helping people. I mean, I know you shouldn't say that should be the only reason, but I do have a passion for helping people in the law and I know the injustices in the criminal justice system, that's what I would like to do. Okay, cool.

All right. Well, I think what we've got to do is we have to figure out a way that you do this with wisdom, because if you just take off and go to law school and you borrow your way through this, you're going to come out with $300,000 in debt. No, I don't. And I'm not signing you up for that, okay? So if you don't have a freaking plan, that's what's going to happen. You're going to default back to that based on emotion if you don't have the

financial and the math worked out ahead of time. And right now, you don't. It's a very vague thing in your mind as to how you're going to pull this off. And you've got to get this dialed in before you go forward on it. So, yeah, I'm fine if you don't pay off the $55,000. I would want you to get the $7,000 paid off. And I think making the move into the paralegal is an excellent move on your part because you might also actually get on with a law firm that might pay for your law school.

That might be a way, you know, they might do that. If you're a good paralegal there and they want to help you advance, they might do that. And so that's something to look for. Look for a law firm that has a benefit, a tuition benefit, and that kind of thing. So, you know, that's what's happening here. And I would get the tuition. I don't think you have to pay off the $55 before you go, but you do have to be rid of the $7,000, and you do have to have a plan to eat and pay the tuition.

And you don't have that plan right now. And you cannot wander into this and say, oh, in a vague sense, it's a good thing to be a lawyer. It's not. It's not a good thing to be a lawyer if you're going to be $300,000 in debt when you do it, especially if you're going to go into the corrections area and you've got this heart for helping people. Those are not areas of the law that pay well.

And so you cannot afford to be in debt doing what you're talking about doing. So you've got to get those things detailed out in a detailed plan, no impulse allowed. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Are high health care costs getting you down? Are you confused trying to navigate your options? Do you wish you could find an affordable, biblical solution to your health care costs? Based on New Testament principles, Christian Health Care Ministries, or CHM, helps Christian families, churches, and ministries join together as the body of Christ to share their major healthcare

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of Dave Ramsey Live Events. chministries dot org. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions, Scott and Leah are with us. Hey, guys, how are you? Good. Pretty good. Welcome. Where do you guys live?

We're from Houston. Oh, cool. Just outside of Houston. Welcome to Nashville. And all the way here to do a debt-free screen. Yes, sir. How much have you paid off? We paid off $296,000.

Whoa! How long did that take? It took 21, 22 months. Goodness, you got after it. And your range of income during that time? We started off low 90s, and we finished about 170, 175. Okay. What kind of debt was the 296?

It was a little bit of everything. It was a couple of rental properties. We had a lot of student loans. We had a lot of medical debt. We had some credit cards. We had a couple of cars. Pretty much normal stuff. Gotcha. Okay. So you sold some student loans. We had a lot of medical debt. We had some credit cards. We had a couple of cars. Pretty much normal stuff. Gotcha.

Okay. So you sold some rental properties. We did. We sold two rental properties. What did they sell for? They sold for about $140. Total between the two? I'm sorry.

No, I'm sorry. We paid them off. We paid off about $140. They sold about, goodness, now I'm forgetting, about $300 between the two of them, I guess. Okay. All right. And so that helped move this along very quickly. Yeah.

We shared some of that with a partner. My father is a partner in the business. Oh, okay. But yes, we paid off about $140. We profited close to $60. That'd take out a little bit for taxes, probably less than that. So we paid off just under $200. And then you cash flowed about another $90 or so.

We cash flowed about $96, yeah. Okay. Wow. Good then you cash flowed about another 90 or so. We cash flowed about 96, yeah. Okay. That's what it wound up being. Wow, good for you. So you had the rental properties, and how long have you two been married? We've been married 16 years. Okay. All right. Yeah.

So what happened two years ago that lit the fuse on this? Because you guys went off. We did. You know, we thought we were smart with money all these years, but two years ago, I wound up finding myself in in surgery i was in the hospital i had surgery it was about seven years of of uh i don't know what a mysterious illness yeah really really difficult illness uh misdiagnosed many many times with with ridiculous rare diseases that nobody would want and uh finally lee had had it i was hurting

so bad one day she just said we got to go to to go to the hospital. I said, we've done this before. We've been there. But anyway, God provided. Found the right stuff. Got the right doctor. Had surgery. And I had clarity probably for the first time in seven or eight years. And I just realized I was not. Well, honestly, the way it happened was I had 30,000 debts to pay.

I mean, everybody's billing me everything. And so I just, we knew who you were. I knew you had a thing called a debt snowball. We were good with money. We were good with debt, you know, and smart debt. So we, we never really followed your plan. And I just knew I needed to snowball this debt, all this medical debt, everything else. And once we got rolling, I just said, we could keep doing this. Let's not stop. And, and, uh, you know, and that's kind of what started it two years ago. Just once it got rolling, then you went, let's just sell the rental. That's right. Yeah. You know, I listened to what you said about stuff. I, to be honest, one of the things that really convicted me was your, your story about being in real estate, you know, again, doing all the right stuff, all the things that the people say, borrowing the

money, the way you're supposed to leverage the debt. I was in the exact same situation, not quite the high numbers that you were in, real close yeah and you know i came out of this thankfully but there were some times where i know she was worried that you know uh her husband was gone her strong athletic used to be a college football player husband was now you know could barely survive and uh and if i had left her with all that you know if something had happened to me and i'd left her i I would have felt terrible. So, yeah. And we didn't have a plan for what happens if. Yeah.

And then the six children doesn't make that worry any smaller. Throw that in there. We've got six children. So, whoa, yeah, that helps. Yeah. So, yeah, we just didn't, I hadn't, I was not doing, I was not handling God's money God's ways. Okay. So, I got really convicted by that.

Okay, cool. So, the illness kind of woke you up in a sense, or actually the end of the illness. It was the end of the illness. Yeah. And you kind of, okay, now I got to deal with this. That's right. I've been putting this off. I've been sweeping this under the rug.

Exactly. We've been just being normal for all these years. Okay. And so then you, so you knew we were out there, but how did you re-engage with us? Literally, it is because we had so many bills to pay coming out of that surgery. Yeah, but I mean, you started listening to podcasts? I did. Literally, the first thing I did was... And we took the kids...

We actually also took Smart Money, Smart Kids right about the same time at our church. But I mean, it was literally like, what does it mean to do this debt snowball? Because, look, man, I got spreadsheets like nobody's business about debt. I was working development deals. I was doing all this stuff. But I never had ordered it that way. I never ordered it smallest to largest. I just never really paid attention to debt because we had smart debt.

We had mortgages. We had student loans. And then all of a sudden we had this seven years worth of medical exploration that was just overwhelming us. But that's how we got it. I started listening to the podcast. I started telling her about it. We listened to your book on tape. We bought your book.

We've done a few different things. And that's how we got engaged. So what do you all tell people the key to getting out of debt is then? Lots of hard work. Lots of hard work. And being, I think, for each other, being the cheerleader, because sometimes just wanting to give up and not do it anymore just because it was getting so hard.

But realizing that the children, there was nothing for them as far as like there was no extra money for let's go do something fun. Life just wasn't fun. And people would tell us, well, if you're going to do this debt-free thing, that doesn't sound very fun. was like there was no extra money for let's go do something fun life just wasn't fun and people would tell us well if you're going to do this debt-free thing that doesn't sound very fun and i was always thinking to myself but their fun is coming we just got to keep holding on and they just they didn't have they wanted to do extracurricular activities or we're thinking oh no college is coming quick and we don't want them dealing with what we dealt with with that college debt.

So it was time. I would say the book of Proverbs says, who could find a virtuous wife? The heart of her husband, safely trust her. He'll have no lack of gain. That's what I did with this little lady here. I tell you, man, she went to five or six different grocery stores. She turned our back porch into a beauty salon or a barbershop,

depending on who needed haircuts. She sold a lot of stuff. She's been, you know, she's participated in some garage sale things that just really helped us out. And she, and again, for seven years, she was pretty much a single parent. I went to work. I came home. I crashed. I was hurting all the time. And when we decided to do this, I said, I'm going to, I'm going to work. I'm going to go to work. And I'm on my own business. And so I said it's directly tied to how much time I spend in that office, how much time I'm on the job site. And so she took it on again, and she fed the kids at night, and I got to work. And we just got after it. But we were definitely focused this time.

Yeah. 22 months later, boom. How's it feel now? Just like that. Amazing. Just like that, 22 months. Yeah, it feels really good. It feels really good.

For the first time, we have a plan of what we're going to do with these six children and how we're going to get them into college. I love it. And not put them in where we were. We're not going to put them in the same place we were in. You changed your family tree? I sure hope so. You did it.

I'm proud of you. Very well done. We got a copy of Chris Hogan's book for you, Everyday Millionaires, because you are on the way to being one without a doubt. You got a copy of chris hogan's book for you everyday millionaires because you are on the way to being one without a doubt you got a great income you know now know how to control your money and uh you're probably going to have to be millionaires just to send them to school what was good too about the smart money smart kids is they learned along the journey as well and so when they would come to us asking us for things and we had to say, no, guys, like we're still really trying to do this right now. They started a lemonade stand and went so far as to design like a poster.

They made them out to the neighborhood. They would go knocking and say, come to our lemonade stand on Saturday. And they saved, well, about four hundred dollars just so that they could split between each other. Four hundred dollars on a lemonade stand. There we go. Yeah. That's good. I'll put them to work is what I'm going to do.

I hear you. Crack that whip. Send them to the salt mines. Hey, that's wonderful. All right, bring them over. Let's introduce them with their names and ages. Okay. Come on over here.

Give me your names and ages. Okay, we've got Hunter. He's 12. This is Taylor. She's 12. This is Taylor. She's 10. This is Kennedy. He's 8. Peyton is 6.

And this is Noah and Lucas, and they're 4. Oh, twins. That's right, twins. Just cap it off at the bottom. There we go. My wife is the youngest, and she's a twin. So there you go. Very good.

All right. Way to go, you guys. We're proud of you. Excellent job. $296,000 paid off, including the sale of two rentals in 22 months, making $90,000 to $170,000. It's Scott and Leah Hunter, Taylor Kennedy, Peyton and Noah. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream.

Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Wow. I love it. That is one of the things I see on social media occasionally that just really upsets me. You can't do Dave Ramsey stuff with a large family. And it's pretty much what Leah said. You don't have a choice but to do the stuff we teach if you have a large family.

It's the only option. It's also the best option for everyone. Just God's and Grandma's ways of handling money. I didn't make it up. I just sold you on it. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Thank you. Our question today comes from Blinds.com. They have a 100% satisfaction guarantee. That means even if you mismeasure, you pick the wrong color, they will remake your window blinds for free. You get free samples, free shipping, and with the new promos they run every month, you'll save even more.

Use the promo code RAMSY to get the best deal. Leah is in Colorado for our question. She says, this May, I will be graduating college with an exercise science degree, pre-physical therapy. I'll graduate with no student loan debt, but I'm kind of scared for the real adulting world. I plan on going to grad school, hopefully, hopefully but not immediately what's your advice for new college grads well avoid debt stay on a budget build your emergency fund and save to pay cash for whatever you're going to do in the future for instance grad school or buying a car so that you avoid debt and stay on a budget and keep your emergency fund in place. And you'll do fine as long as you have to create an income.

Obviously, that's called working. You'll do that. And then if you want to move on into the PT world and get your grad in that, start working towards saving that up. What you've accomplished going to school with zero student loan debt is pretty amazing. Well done. Not a lot of people do that. And that says that you've got a lot on the ball.

It says you've got a bright future. So whatever you were doing there, probably do a lot more of that, right? That's going to be the thing. So you're very wise and have moved well beyond your years already. Chase is with us in Washington. Hi, Chase. How are you? Pretty good.

Yourself, Dave? Better than I deserve. What's up? Well, I'm calling to ask your advice if my wife and I should keep paying on her student loans or not. For the past month, my wife has been in the hospital, unable to work, and is needing a lung transplant. And I had heard you say just a couple days ago that student loan debt is forgiven if you become disabled. So I was just kind of wondering your advice on this.

How much student loan debt does she have? I was just kind of wondering your advice on this. How much student loan debt does she have? We have about $22,000. She has? How much does she have? That's hers. Oh, okay. Okay, so you said we, and I'm making sure that there's $22,000 in her name.

Yes. And this is federally insured student loans? I believe so, yes. Okay. If they're private loans, they're not forgiven. It's federally insured Sallie Mae loans. And in the event she's declared permanently disabled and is eligible for SSI, Social Security Disability, then you would have to go through a process.

And it's a little bit rigorous, but I would go through the process. And right now, with her facing an extreme illness like this, I would not spend money on her student loan. I would pile up cash right now. You're in the middle of an emergency, and if she is declared permanently disabled and you get that approved with the SSI, then you apply with the Sallie Mae. If it is a federally insured student loan, it is forgivable. Cameron is on the line in Canton, Ohio. Hi, Cameron. How are you?

Hi, Dave. I'm doing good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? So I had a quick question for you. I'm currently 20 years old. I'm going to school in Kent, Ohio for air traffic control. I have about $30,000 saved up and I want to know if it's a realistic goal to be a millionaire by 30. In 10 years? In 10 years in 10 years okay so what will you be making um i will graduate here well right now i make fifteen thousand dollars like working over the summer and at school part-time um and then when i graduate in a year and a half i'll be making start probably around seventy thousand okay um well i mean i think you probably can. You know, it just depends on what you're willing to not spend.

You know, if you're investing $1,000 a month for 20 years, you would be a millionaire, as an example. So if you were to invest, you know, probably about $2,000 would get you there. So if you're making $70,000 and you're investing that aggressively and you've avoided debt, you know, you probably can make it, something along those lines, you know. But the thing is this, I don't know that, I mean, you ought to always set goals. I like setting goals. I like the fact you're thinking about this. But we need to think about why you're doing this and what it is you want to do with the

money, what's the reasoning and, and you know that kind of stuff and then you start to go well you know a million dollars is not enough or uh if i make it by 32 instead of 30 it's not the end of the world and you can start actually backing into it and uh so you know just pull up on one of the online future value calculators and say what have i got to put in, and what kind of different scenarios can I run out in order to be there in 10 years? But I think it's mathematically possible with what you're laying out, no doubt about it. Sarah is on the line. Sarah's in Toledo, Ohio. Hi, Sarah.

Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hello. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. What's up? I have a question about refinancing my home. My back story is I got a divorce three years ago, so I'm a single mom with four kids. They're with me all the time.

I started paying off debt about two years ago, just on my own. I only found you about a month ago, so I've been listening to your show. Okay. I paid off about $20,000 in the last 24 months. So in my divorce, I have to refinance a house into my name. So I was wondering, I inquired about refinancing already, and if I did a 15-year mortgage, my house payment would go up from $854,000 to $1,200,000. So I just wondered if that was the smart thing to do while I still have two more debts to pay off.

One is $9,000 on a van and then a $2,800 student loan. What's your income? About $60,000 and then I get about $15,000 a year in child support. Mm-hmm. What it does, it slows you down, obviously, by $400 a month, $4,800 a year, $5,000 a year. Okay? Yeah. And if you're making $75,000 a year with a $1,200 house payment, that's going to be still within 25% of your take-home pay. That's going to be with it still within 25 of your take-home pay that's going to still work um the um then the question is can we get the debts paid and you said you had it was a fifteen

thousand dollars left is all right yes okay you're going to do that in two years with or without doing this. See, here's what's running through my mind that I'm trying to figure out is if you can do this, it's the smart thing to do. Here's why. Okay. All the data tells us, and one of the surveys I read, pieces of research I read 20 years ago has held to be true, that people who win with money, who build wealth, when asking a question like this, do not think about Friday or next month. They think about, is this the best idea over the next 20 years? People who are broke think about Friday. Yeah.

And if you make the right decision based on friday uh you would take out a 30-year mortgage because it would be less payment and it gives you more wiggle room in your budget and there's less pain right but if you think about 20 years from today oh you still got 10 years left on that mortgage or we would have been living in a paid-for house for five years if we do this, but it's painful today. So my answer is I would do it if I can figure out a way to make the math work, even though it slightly delays, probably by six months, you being debt-free other than the house.

Okay. Now, you're forced to refinance it immediately? Well, it's coming up to the time. I had three years, and so I have to do it in the next few months, yes. Yeah, okay. So you don't have a choice of delaying it another year? No. Okay.

Unfortunately. What kind of relationship do you have with him? It's decent. I mean, I guess I could ask about pushing it back. I might push it a year if he would let you. Okay. Get that in writing with your attorneys and use that year to pile on this debt real hard and then refinance it. And when you do, put it on a 15 because that gives you the wiggle room to punch the debt in the mouth, right?

Yes. If you could do that, that'd be okay. But if you are going to refinance it, I'm going to hold my nose and grit through and do the 15-year because that's your best long-term play.

This is The Dave Ramsey Show. This is James Childs, producer of The Dave Ramsey Show. Did you know you can now listen to The Dave Ramsey Show on Pandora and Spotify? For all the ways to watch and listen, check out our show page at DaveRamsey.com slash show.