The Ramsey Show - App - Leaders Are Taught, Not Born (Hour 3)

Episode Date: May 8, 2020

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions,casting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I am Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Brady is with us in Des Moines, Iowa. Hi, Brady.

Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Pleasure to speak with you. Certainly. How can I help? So my wife and I are on baby step three. We completed our debt-free journey and all last year came down and did that free screen with you last summer. So we're kind of looking, we're starting that process and looking at houses. We've got the 10%

minimum you suggest saved up and are continuing to build that as we look. As we start looking for houses right now, we're kind of noticing that that number we set for our 15%, no more than your 25%, excuse me, take-home pay, it seems like there's always something major that is a year or two away from needing, you know, a roof for $5,000, $6,000 or appliances, all that sort of thing thing but it seems like when we go if we were to go you know that 28 29 percent of the take-home pay we wouldn't have those issues and you're going to get the more move-in ready house um what would you suggest doing in that term i think you need to keep looking okay you haven't found the house. You've just found rationalization. Sure. And here's the thing. The way you ask yourself the question is not what Dave Ramsey would do,

because who gives a rip, really, at the end of the day? But the question you ask yourself is, what is going to cause us to win long-term financially? And what happens inevitably to me and to you, when we start looking at houses and we start looking at cars, we always see the ones that are nicer. We always do. I was in Florida on a trip for fun,

and Sharon and I were considering buying a beach condo. We've now decided not to. Thank you, Jesus. But we were looking at a vacation home, right? So we start looking at one price, but before we know it, we've got the money. But before we know it, we've crept up almost 50%. Because guess what? those that were 50 more expensive were a lot freaking nicer you know it's just a normal human thing to go oh i could get

that car but i could get that car you know um it's a normal human thing to let you know it's a creep it's a scope creep kind of thing that happens to us and so i would resist that because i think it's a good emotional spiritual relational exercise to resist that and uh um i'll give you another example okay of just a way to think about it you do what you want to do at the end of the day okay but i think if think if you'll stick to your guns, five years from now, ten years from now, you'll be glad you did, even if you put a roof on something. Or even if you bought a dishwasher, you're going to be glad you did because you're going to be moving towards your goals much more rapidly.

But here's another thing. Once I decided and Sharon decided, we no longer borrow money for anything ever. Now, I'm not suggesting that with you. I'm okay with your 15-year fixed, okay? You know the program. You've been working the program. But I'm just saying, once we had this new guideline, in your case, it's 15-year, no more than a fourth-year take-home pay fixed, right? In my case, it was, I can't buy it if I don't have the money, period.

Once we had that guideline, it did two very good things for us. Number one, it ruled out a bunch of stuff. We just can't do that. I just don't have the money. I just can't do that. I don't have the money. The second thing is if it was something I was trying to do and I thought I could almost do it. I had to just kind of get creative and figure out a way to pull it off without borrowing money to pull it off.

I had to negotiate them down. I had to option the thing and then come back later and buy it when I could get the cash together. I've done that on real estate deals that I didn't have the money to close on it right now, but I will have in six months. And so I'd give them some money for an option. I just get creative to where I still get the deal done, but I don't have to violate my guideline, my boundary that I put in place.

It made me become a little bit more creative and it made me learn to say no. And those are the two things I would put on you. If, you know, it's a different guideline. It's not the debt free guideline, but it is the 15-year fixed rate where the payment's no more than a fourth-year take-home pay. We all get scope creep. We all creep up the scope of what we're looking at. If it's a dress or a purse or a suit of clothes or a pair of shoes,

it's almost immeasurable. If it's a house or a car car you feel it and see it because the purchase is so much larger megan is with us in norman oklahoma hi megan welcome to the dave ramsey show hi dave it's a pleasure to speak with you i'm fangirling a little bit well it's awesome how can i help um so i am 23 years old i'm finishing my master's this weekend. Yay! And what? Left-handed puppetry or music education. So, that's the greatest deal. But I'm on baby step number four, so I have done it completely debt-free. Wonderful. What are you going to do for a living?

So, I'm going to be starting my doctoral program at the University of Missouri this fall. Again, that is 100% paid for by the university, stipend, complete tuition paid for. And I also will be working as a music teacher during that time, and I have a church job playing organ at a tiny church as well. So my question for you is, looking at moving to this area, again, I'm on Baby Steps 4, so I have my emergency fund. I've got a little bit of cash. I have a Roth IRA that I've been contributing 15% of my income to. And looking at that area, the rent on apartments is really, really high compared to the value of homes.

And I know that the program that I'm going to be in is about three years, and there's a good chance that I'm going to want to leave after then, but I'm getting a little bit tempted with the idea of buying a house in that area just because I could probably purchase a home, and the mortgage payment would be only about 15% of my take-home pay, whereas finding rental prices that would be under 25% of my take-home pay, you're getting into uh some scary scary areas there you've not done enough shopping because the numbers that you're giving me aren't logical

and the reason the reason they're not logical is if house payments are 15 of your take-home pay and rent is 25 of your take-home pay uh there's a lot of landlords out there that are cleaning up because if i can buy a house yeah if i can buy a house no that's just not true because what happens is is the supply uh will i mean the the uh the demand will drive the price down or the demand will drive the price up but a lack of demand so there's not you know the the rental market and the uh house payment always get close to each other by a force of economics. They have to. Now, if you want to buy a house there, I'm okay with that in your situation,

but you need to run a couple of numbers. You need to find out what the average days on the market are when you get ready to sell it and what the average increase in value is. And if it's not going to increase in value 5% to 10% a year for three years, you're going to lose money when you sell it, and you're going to wish you had rented. If it takes you 270 days, nine months to sell your house, you're going to wish you'd never bought it. And so unless it's got a really hot market, it goes up fast and sells easy, you don't want to buy there with a three-year window.

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CHM is a proud sponsor of Dave Ramsey Live Events. chministries.org. Thank you for joining us, America. Phillip is with us in New London, Connecticut. Hey, Phillip, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, thanks, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up? Hey, so my wife and I are currently in Baby Step 2. I'm a Navy veteran currently utilizing my GI Bill to go back to school,

and I'm pursuing a degree in philosophy with the end goal being getting a Ph.D. and eventually becoming a teacher on a collegiate level. I'm currently at a job. I work at a shipyard as a safety instructor, so I am currently kind of teaching right now. And this is really a passion versus profit question. So I hear you teaching every day. I listen to your show every day. And my wife and I are really wondering, you know,

is this a good degree path for me? Is this the end goal, a good idea for making money for my family? Because, you know, we hear all the time that philosophy degrees don't do anything for you. But I really have a passion for teaching. I'm really passionate about the subject matter and just kind of being that person that kind of is able to mold minds of future generations. Yeah, so that's kind of my question. Cool.

Well, it's the only path that that degree has got a natural career to it. We don't have philosophers walking around on the streets getting paid money. And so philosophers have to be Ph.D. and be college professors in order to have a job. And you should make six figures doing that if you get a decent institution you're working for. And with your military service, I think that gives you an advantage thank you for your service by the way so i don't have a problem i don't have a problem with people learning philosophy or teaching philosophy i'm not mad about it um and i think you're being wise to ask the question of how am i going to monetize my education and for the good of my family. Okay?

Matter of fact, that's kind of a philosophical question, if you think about it. So, you know, it's a good question. The only thing I might add to your whole process, just listening to you, I think you might have as much of a bug about leadership as you do philosophy. Okay. Maybe you do some, while you're doing this, I'm not saying you change your direction, but as your electives, maybe we do some management and leadership courses, and you kind of have a philosophy of leadership thing starting to develop.

And if you've got some good solid leadership stuff to go with some good critical thinking skills, that opens up a whole lot of doors for you if you chose not to be a professor later. Okay. Because leadership, you know, we do have leaders walking around on the street making money. Yeah, you're correct. leadership you know we do have leaders walking around on the street making money you know and yeah learning learning the skill set and the attributes of world-class leaders um and people who want to become world-class leaders it is a teachable process i teach leadership we teach entree leadership leaders are not born i've been to hospital. They say it's a boy or a girl. They never say it's a leader Mm-hmm, and so you can teach them and I I you know, I'm just listening to you and listening to your background

your work ethic You're not a You're not approaching this your vernacular. You're not approaching this from some highbrow academic thing you you have a practical side to your life and always have and so that's kind of what's bugging you about this a little bit am i wrong no you're not and i that's right yeah you know you're working in the shipyard you've been in the military you know now you're pursuing a degree in a professorship as a Ph.D. track you're on. I like all of it. I just would add to it rather than that.

Because the downside of your singular track is it's got one possibility other than just leaving the career field, other than leaving your academic studies behind and going in a completely different direction, which people do all the time, by the way. A lot of people not working in their degree, but that's not our goal here. So you wouldn't go to all this trouble not to work in it. But you've got one way to get a job on your current path, and that's a professor. Correct. So real quick, I'm about, I'm set to graduate next year in May.

In undergrad. Correct, in undergrad. So would you recommend whenever I'm choosing a graduate program that I kind of keep my options open for leadership? Yeah, I mean, jump over into their MBA program and pick up some electives while you're doing your Ph.D. track on philosophy. That's all I'm saying. Learn strategic thought and some leadership

skills and some of the research that's been done and the attributes of leaders and weave that in with what you're doing. I don't think it's an unnatural fit. I think they're complementary. Okay. Good leaders are a bit of a philosopher. You can't help but be that. It's critical thinking

skills. Okay. And that's what you're learning. So excellent job, man. That's fun. Good discussion. Thanks for calling in. Aaron is with us in Palm Springs, California. Hey, Aaron, how are you?

Hey, Dave. Thanks for taking my call, man. Sure. What's up? Hey, so my parents had put me in a life insurance policy when I was 19. I'm 13 now. I've been paying into it. I haven't really looked into it at all. I just know that you've been sharing. I've seen some of your videos that say that's a bad deal.

So I don't know. What should I kind of do with that? And I think I have about like $3,000 in there. Okay. How old are you? How old are you? Oh, I'm 32. And are you single?

I'm married. Okay. And are you single? I'm married. Okay. And do you have another life insurance policy? I don't think we do. Okay. Do you have children? We have one on the way. Awesomeness.

And what do you make? My job right now? Yes, sir. How much do you make? What's your income? About $30,000. Okay. I'm a paraeducator at a school, but I just finished my master's to teach PE.

So hopefully I'll get a job next school year. And my wife's a nurse. And what would that entail you making if you got a job next school year? About $60,000. Perfect. Okay. A good rule of thumb is to have 10 to 12 times your income on you in term life insurance that's 15 to 20-year level term.

Okay? Let me walk you through that. Let's say it was 10 times. That'd be $600,000 on you. It's very inexpensive if you're healthy and you're not overweight and you don't smoke, okay, especially at your age. It doesn't cost nothing. So go to Zander, Z-A-N-D-E-R, ZanderInsurance.com, and get a quote on $600,000.

Now, if you die two weeks after you get this policy with $600,000, your wife gets $600,000. If she were to invest that in good mutual funds and if she were to make 10% on that, 10% of $600,000 is $60,000. Yeah. We've just taken care of your wife and child and never touched the principal. That's what you want to do to take care of your kid. And once that's in place, cancel this garbage whole life. Okay. And it was sweet of your parents to do it.

They were trying to do a good thing. They just did it in a bad way. And it's just trash. And now your wife is the same thing. Take 10 to 12 times her income on her. And if she passes away, you would have the money to raise your child. And then you revisit your life insurance every so often as your income goes up and you add a little more. And then someday, 20 years from today, if you're listening to Dave Ramsey, you didn't take out more than a 15-year mortgage, your house will be paid for.

20 years from today, your new baby will be 20 years old and out of the house. Thank you, Jesus. And 20 years from today, if you're listening to me, you would have been investing through that 20 years, and you'd have $600,000, $700,000, $800,000 in your 401K with a paid-for house and no kids at home. If you dropped your life insurance, she'd probably be okay if you died because she'd have $700,000 and no kids to raise in a paid-for house. I think you can make it on that.

That's called becoming self-insured by doing financial planning. So your need for life insurance is not for your whole life. It's just for a term. If you do good stuff on the other side. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Please hear me loud and clear. The government is not going to bail you out of your student loans, at least not completely and not without a catch. What they're talking about only impacts federal, not private loans,

and you need to take responsibility for what you owe and pay your debt down quicker. Right now, Splash Financial is offering their lowest rates ever. With lower rates and extra payments, you could just find yourself debt-free in the next five years. Visit SplashFinancial.com slash Ramsey to see if you qualify. Yvonne is on the line in Walla Walla, Washington. I've always wanted to say that. Hey, Yvonne, how are you? I'm doing great.

I'm doing amazing. How are you? Better than I deserve. I see on my screen you're debt-free. Congrats. I am. I'm calling to do my debt-free screen. Super excited.

Love it. How much have you paid off? I've paid off over $44,000. Good for you. And how long did this take? It took me about 27 months. Good for you. And your range of income during that time? It was a little bit of a roller coaster, so as high as 42, but I'm averaging right now about $36,000. What do you do? Right now, I'm currently a bilingual secretary at a public school. Good for you. Cool. All right. And what kind of debt was the $44,000?

Dave, it was everything I'm talking about. I had a Toyota pickup. I had medical bills from when my son was born. I mean, when he was born, and he's six already. I had credit cards. I had everything. Wow. And so you're a single mom? Single mom, yes. Okay. And so you were kind of just living life normal? Kind of, yeah. Which pretty much sucks. Yeah. Yeah, right? I know. What happened 27 months ago? So we can a little backtrack a little bit.

So about five years ago, I was a little bit blindsided by a divorce. So I made a decision to move back to my hometown of Walla Walla with my 18-month-old son. And as I was getting my life together, I accumulated debt. I had debt from my marriage. It was just everything. And not to mention, I also started raising my niece. Oh my goodness. So yes, so I have my teenage niece. And then Dave, I started listening to your podcast. I purchased the Total Money Makeover book and I just started going balls to the wall. I was just crazy about it. And then I also started doing the EveryDollar app.

So I just started cutting things. And then 27 months ago, I decided to sell my truck. Yeah, I know, right? So I sold my truck. That just knocked off $11,000. And that's really where it kind of started. I started just budgeting, and I started taking day jobs. I'm talking about I was doing child care.

I was teaching workout classes before work, after work. I was doing anything. I was saying yes to everything and selling anything I could. Wow. You're a dadgum warrior, kiddo. Well done. Well done. What are you driving now?

Right now I'm driving a 2000 Subaru Legacy with over 160,000 miles, but I own it. It is mine. That's definitely a legacy car. Yeah, right. No pun intended. Yeah, I love it. Way to go. Way. Yeah, right. No pun intended. Yeah, I love it. Way to go. Way to go, man.

Yes, I know. You broke free of all this stuff from the past, including, you know, just trying to get settled in and restarting your life, and that all ran up bills. There were bills coming from every segment of your history, and all that history is gone now, all the negative parts of it. Yes, it's completely gone. I don't have to worry about it. And, I mean, just thinking about, like, you know, I'm setting up my son, my niece. She's 17 years old. She's doing the Running Start program. She's getting her college credits.

You know, she's going to go to school. She's going to go to college debt-free and all of this wouldn't have happened had we not just got on a plan, got on a budget. How did you end up finding our podcast? So I started, okay, so basically, long story short, I was just overwhelmed. I was getting calls nonstop and I was getting just letters and I was just trying to figure out what can I do to, you know, get my life together. And so I started researching online, and Dave, of course, comes on here, and I read just, it's just so simple, so straightforward. There's just steps.

You just follow them. And there wasn't anything like transfer all of your stuff to one loan or, you know, you were just scared enough to try something new. Yes. And so just that simple thing of just putting it all down on paper. And once you put it down on paper, you realize how much money you're spending on just things that are so ridiculous that you don't even need at all. Wow. How old are you? I am 28. Wow. Look at you. Yes. On fire. I'm proud of you. Well done. Did you have people cheering you on or people saying you were crazy? At the beginning of it, people thought I was crazy. They thought I was super cheap, always saying no. But at the end, you know, I had my sister.

I would call her. I'm like, hey, I just paid off this or I just paid off this. And they just started listening to me. And it's funny because now I feel like I have more cheerleaders. People will text me. The other day I literally got a text the same day I got a, you know, that I knew I was going to be on the Dave Ramsey show. And my friend's like, hey, do you still have that book, The Total Money Makeover?

And I do. But you have to wait because I let someone else borrow it. Yeah. You know, it's funny when teams start winning, everybody, everybody jumps on the bandwagon, don't they? Yes. Yeah. That's when you're, when you're winning you're popular i know

right well yeah yeah so those pictures up there those are pictures of you know of when i taught my fitness classes and i mean i feel like once you're that that vibe that you give off is just you know people just surround yourself with those people, and it just gives off this amazing feeling, and, you know, people want to be around that. Amen. Amen. Well, it's because, you know, you have a destiny, and you're going after it.

I'm proud of you. Very, very well done. Thank you. Good job. Good job. You're winning. Thanks. And this is just the beginning.

The next chapter in your story is for you to become a millionaire and be outrageously generous along the way, because you may run into i mean when you're a millionaire you might run into a single mom that needs a car yes you might you might know somebody like that huh i know and it's just it's just one of those things where you just pay it forward i mean i feel like i should just go buy as many total money makeover books and anytime someone mentions i you know i'm having trouble paying this or I want to do this, I just want to give them that book.

That way they can realize, you know, it's just so easy, so simple, and anyone can do it. Wow. I'm going to send you 10 to give away, okay? Of course. I already have 10 people I can give it to. Good, good. Well, you're the kind of person we like helping. You're incredible.

Thank you. Very proud of you. Very, very well done. You're why I come down here like helping. You're incredible. Thank you. Very proud of you. Very, very well done. You're why I come down here every day. So good job. Good job. All right. We also got a copy of Chris Hogan's book for you, Retire Inspired, signed by him.

That is the next chapter for you to be a millionaire and outrageously generous. And we'll get you started here with 10 total money makeover books to give to your friends and relatives. So now that you're the walking freaking example of it can be done. Hello! Well done. I love it, I love it, I love it. All right, well, let's have you count down. $44,000 paid off in 27 months, making $42,000 to $36,000 a year.

It's Yvonne in Walla Walla, Washington. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. All right, and I have my niece and my son both here with me. So, three, two, one. We're debt-free! There we go, baby. There we go.

You know, I get, man, I get on Twitter and I get so aggravated. Dave Ramsey's stuff's for rich people. Dave Ramsey's stuff's not for rich people. It's for Yvonne. The stuff we teach is the cookies are on a shelf where everybody can reach it. She's a single mom raising her niece and her son making $36,000 a year. Now, if you want to call that rich people, I'll call you stupid. That's not rich people.

And she did it. And there you are whining in your $88,000 income, driving your Tahoe you can't afford. I can't get out of debt. Dave Ramsey stuff doesn't work for regular people. No, you're just a freaking whiner. That's your problem. And Yvonne just showed you up, man. She just dusted you off.

Yeah, she just exposed how dumb some of you are. You listen to this show, but you don't hear it. You don't go home and do it. Well, that lady just changed her whole dadgum family tree. She just changed her life. I didn't do it. I just showed her how to do it. She's a hero, man.

You don't think she's not a hero, that little boy? You don't think she's not a hero, that niece she's raising? She's a hero, man. I don't want to hear you whine. Not after that call. Don't be whining on Twitter. I will thump you in front of 800,000 people. I'll give you a little Twitter thump these days, but I'm here to tell you,

you can control your budget and you can control what you feed your family. My longtime friends at eMeals are here to help. They have simplified meal plans and created new recipe collections such as easy pantry meals and freezer meals utilizing basic ingredients. It has never been easier to shop smarter and stay on a budget. Try it free for two full weeks at E-Meals.com. our scripture of the day robert 14 29 whoever is slow to anger has great understanding, but he who has a hasty temper exalts folly. Charles Dickens says, have a heart that never hardens, a temper that never tires, and a touch that never hurts. Wow, good stuff. Ashley is with us in Sacramento, California.

Hi, Ashley, how are you? Good, Dave, it's an honor to speak with you. You too, What's up? So 13 months ago, I found you during some pregnancy and formula, best thing that ever happened to me in the middle of the night. And my husband and I have since paid off $46,000 in debt. Wait a minute. You need to speak directly into your phone.

I can't understand you. Oh, I'm sorry. My husband and I have paid off $46,000 in debt in the last 13 months. We have $46,000 less in debt to pay off. We were paying about $3,000 a month in debt, but we now have our second child in daycare, which is costing $1,500 a month, so we only have room in our budget to pay $1,500 a month towards debt. My husband has a 4% 401k match at his job, and he is reluctant to stop putting money into that 401k match, which is about $200 a month. I'd like him to stop so we can continue to pay off our debt in 24 more months, but he thinks that he needs to continue.

So I was hoping that you could help me have a conversation with him to stop paying that in. Yeah. So I have a pretty decent-sized belly. It's not as big as it was this time last year. And I hired a personal trainer, and he tells me he's got complete, like, a six-pack of abs, an eight-pack of abs, right? I've got a keg, right?

And he tells me what to do. Now, he obviously has done something that's right with his physique that I haven't done. So I can either do this my way or I can do it the guy's way who's got the set of abs. Very true. You following me? Yeah, definitely, sir. Yeah.

And so your husband is the guy with a keg who's looking at a guy with a set of abs financially, and he's going, I've got this figured out. And we're looking at his belly going, no, you don't. Yeah, really true. I think I was, my husband thought I was kind of crazy to jump on the sand wagon, but he said there's nothing worse than a bad pregnant wife, so he jumped on and I got in. That's the wrong reason to jump on.

The right reason to jump on is to look over and say, hey, this Dave Ramsey thing that my wife is looking at, this process of handling money, five million people have used it to get out of debt i'm in debt i need to do something different than i've been doing my best thinking has not gotten us out i've got to do something different this is your husband okay he should be thinking this way and it's not to keep his pregnant wife from yelling at him it's because he actually looked at this logically used critical thought and said i want something I've never had, so I've got to do something I've never done.

I'm going to try a new system. This guy seems to have a proven plan. I'm going to buy in. Then your husband's on board. Otherwise, you're just beating him with a wet noodle, right? Yeah, I mean, I feel like he's kind of on board. No, he's not. No, he's not.

I'm doing this to keep my pregnant wife from yelling at me. He's not on board. Well, I mean, he's been on board in cutting our lifestyle at paying $3,000. He's going along with you. He is not on board. That's true. So how would you recommend I get him on board? You're right.

You're right. He needs to look at the logic of this and say to himself am i willing to try something that i've never done before that is that is outside of my comfort zone in order to get something i've never gotten before because my best thinking has gotten us into this mess you know my best eating pattern has gotten me a belly so i need a different eating pattern right yeah no that makes sense and so you know i have to submit myself to someone who knows something more than me and does something differently than me to get different results than i've gotten to this point a new set of knowledge a new way of looking a new way of

thinking a new way of behaving in order to get different results than i've ever gotten before and that's when someone gets on board and so just talk that through with him and just go honey you know our best thinking has gotten us to this point i want you to actually read this freaking book with me right now if he hasn't done and then and then you tell me how you are smarter than this system, and if you can convince me of that, I'll shut up about it. But so far, you know, the thing that you and I have done together has gotten us in this mess, not out of a mess. We're not sitting here with $10 million.

We're sitting here in a mess. I mean, if you call me up and you have a $10 million net worth because you've got some system figured out and you're, you know, debt-free and winning and your marriage is wonderful and the money issues and all that and you say my stuff's working dave i'm not going to do yours i'm going to say hey you probably ought to you know you get it's working for you i'm not going to argue with you but when you call me up broke and say i want to keep doing my system that's just not logical yeah and i was hoping i guess i just kind of hoped that with paying off 46 000 debt in the last year

that he would really see the long look of the plan and get on board. Yeah, kind of think he might have. Yeah, I mean, that's like looking at somebody who lost 40 pounds, and you go, that's apparently working for you, you know? Yeah, so he's like half on board. He brought it down from he was contributing 15% down to four, but I'm like, we could get out of debt in, you know, six months sooner if you stop doing that 4%. Yeah, but, you know, you're the horse in front of the plow plowing the field

manually here, and he's standing on the sidelines going, you know, that's a pretty good job you're doing down there. Yeah, that's true. You know, you're carrying all the emotional weight here. And so he's not a bad guy he's just not on board and so sit down and talk to him and just say honey this matters a lot to me that you look at this and you intellectually and emotionally and spiritually engage this process and if we're not going to do it you need to do it not do it from a point of knowledge instead of standing on the sidelines monday

monday morning quarterbacking this idea after the game was already over on sunday you know and i i just don't want to do it by myself i want your help and i don't want to drag you along it's not that's not how marriage works i don't want to drag you along and so that that's the process and you know i i think he'll get it i think you just got to mess with him a little bit which is what i've been doing in this conversation and so that's the thing so good question you know it's a really good point to think about if you hire a personal trainer and you're not going to do what they said to do when you're working out and with your eating patterns why did you hire a personal trainer?

Just like, is that like a fashion statement? I mean, you know, and if you're going to, you have to submit yourself to a new way of thinking and behaving to get a different set of results in any area of your life. If you're going to go to a marriage counselor and you do nothing the marriage counselor says, you know what a good marriage counselor does? They tell you not to come back and waste your money anymore because you're pig-headed and you're selfish and you're arrogant and you're not listening. And they run you out of their office. That's what they do.

Now, a bad marriage counselor will just keep playing patty cake and singing kumbaya and taking your money and letting you stay in your slop. But a good one will bust your chops and say, you know, you're just being a twerp to your wife. You know, you're being a test pilot for a broom factory to your husband. You know, you've got to stop this. A good one will bust up in you, and you're either going to submit yourself to a different way of being married to have a better marriage, or you're going to keep having what you've been having. All of these things are the way we intellectually, emotionally, and spiritually attack these processes. And so actually, it's not different, and our husband's not a bad guy.

He didn't do anything wrong. It's just how we all have to look at this stuff. And unless you take something seriously enough to engage in a new paradigm, a new way of looking at things, a new way of behaving, you're not going to get any different results. And that's what we do around here. We shake up your paradigm, this idea that you need a FICO score, that you have to have a credit card to live. We shock and shake up your paradigm.

And we're really, really good at it. card to live, we shock and shake up your paradigm. And we're really, really good at it. That's why we've gotten more people out of debt than anybody else. That puts this hour of the Dave Ramsey Show in the books. We will be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. In the middle of these uncertain times, Ramsey Solutions wants to give you some hope. For the very first time ever, we're giving you Financial Peace University free for 14 days.

Go to DaveRamsey.com slash hope so you can watch from home.