The Ramsey Show - App - Learning to Save Money When You Love to Spend It (Hour 1)

Episode Date: August 22, 2018

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Music Music Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. You jump in, we'll talk about your life and your money. It's a free call at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Nathaniel starts us off in Chicago this hour.

Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show, Nathaniel. Thanks so much, Dave. I'm happy to be here. Good to have you, sir. How can I help? Well, I just had a question. I'm trying to change my mindset to being more of a better saver. As a kid, I was a pretty good saver, and then a little tiny incident happened, and then I kind of changed my mindset over, plus my father is more of a spender. So I just want to work on being a better saver, trying to get that mindset

again. Okay. So if I were standing on a stage in front of 2,000 or 3,000 people or 5,000 people, which I often do, and I say, how many of you are spenders? And they raise their hand. And how many of you are savers? And they raise their hand. Which time would you raise your hand?

Spender? Yes, sir. Okay. Because I'm a natural spender. My wife's a natural saver. She gets great joy out of saving. I only get great joy out of what saving produces, but not out of the actual act. So you and I are more on the same page, same team is what I'm saying in that sense.

So as a fellow spender, what I have learned is I get two things. I get three things from saving. Number one, I have more money. It's how you build wealth. And I do want to build wealth, even though I'm a spender. I'm not a saver, but that makes me an investor. It's fairly easy for me to invest because i can think long term i want to build wealth and then then i have to ask myself okay why am i willing to do that why do i want

to build wealth well so that i can do a couple of three things number one i can increase my generosity which most spenders are pretty generous people not all of them but most spenders have a tendency towards generosity and get joy from helping someone. If you walked up to somebody standing in the grocery line, and it was a mom, and she was struggling with three little kids, and it was evident that she didn't have the money to pay for her groceries, and you could hand a $100 bill and pay for her groceries. Is that the kind of stuff you do? Oh, yes, sir. I'd love to.

That's your natural bent, right? I mean, that would give you joy. It's more than spending 100 bucks on yourself right oh yeah yeah and i figured out i can't be generous like that if i'm broke that's true and the only way to not be broke is safe so i save not for the benefit of saving but for so i can do the things that savings allows me to do does that make any sense right and so i had to say okay the way to build wealth is to invest when i'm wealthy i can give with outrageous generosity i can always give but when i'm wealthy i can be outrageous about it and uh so uh that gives me great joy the second thing it gives me is i can do stuff i want to do there's things you like to spend i figured out i could spend more if i had more right and so as a spender i i get to live

in my strengths i can spend more if i had more and so if i if you get wealthy enough you can walk in a store and look around and go i could buy everything in here i mean can you imagine like a billionaire walking into Costco? You know, they don't think about it, right? They go, they don't think about what something is. They just buy whatever they want to buy. So it increases your ability to spend by building wealth, and that's the living like no one else so that later I can live like no one else. We might change it in this conversation and say spend like no one else

so that later I can spend like no one else. In other words, not spend so stinking much now so that i got more later and i can do more for me mine and generosity later uh and then the last thing that uh the wealth building does for me as a spender is it enables me to give people that i love that are savers peace of mind. My wife gets great peace of mind as a saver from us having a very large emergency fund, from us having some money. And she's not warped. She's not toxic. She's not a greedy person. She's not any of those things. You know, having $30,000 or whatever number you want to put on it in a savings account for an emergency fund gives her peace that I don't even understand because it doesn't do that for me.

But the emergency fund gives the security gland of the saver the ability to relax. And so it's a gift I can give to my spouse, those closest to me, my kids, whoever it is that worries about money. I'm not a worrier about money. I just go make some more. It doesn't worry me. And that's how spenders think usually. We try to out-earn our stupidity sometimes. Spenders think that way.

So what you got to do is just think through, okay, what as a spender, what gives me great joy, and how much more of those things could I do if I built wealth? So if I spend like no one else right now, which means not so much, later I can spend and give like no one else. Good question, Nathaniel. It's a good discussion. Thanks for letting me get on a soapbox. Cody's in Los Angeles.

Hi, Cody. Welcome to Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. What's up? Awesome. So, yeah, I'm obsessed with investing. Cool.

I'm 26 years old, and for the past few years I've been doing it. And I just want to know if it's a healthy way to live. I make good money, but I live almost paycheck to paycheck. What do you make? I'd rather not say, but I live almost paycheck to paycheck. What do you make? I'd rather not say, but it's, you know. Well, nobody knows who you are. You're Cody in Los Angeles. There's a couple of Codys there.

Okay, it's nearly six figures. Great. Okay, so you make a couple hundred thousand. Yeah, and, you know, I'm out of debt. A few years ago, I got out of debt. School loans. I sold my car so I can walk to work. You're single?

I have a girlfriend. I've been in a relationship for a while, but not married. No kids. No mortgage. Are you generous with her? Yeah, we still have fun and live a good life. If I asked her what would she say? She would say that we live a good life.

Okay. Yeah. Good. But just for me, you know, I don't buy myself anything. Like I said, I don't have a car. Would I want a car? Yes. But I worry about things in the future, you know, like things I'll have to pay for in the future.

So I save as much as I can now. Okay, there's only three things we can do with money. We can give it, give it, spend it, and save it. That's all you can do. One of those three things. You can give it, save it, or spend it. Saving being investing a subcategory of saving, right? And so you need to be doing some of all three.

And so you need to get, you make a couple hundred grand a year. You're a young man in Los Angeles. You need to get some joy from your money. And in addition to investing joy, you get joy when you invest it. We know that. We've established that. You're obsessed with investing. It's not a bad thing, by the way.

Most of the rest of the culture, particularly around you in los angeles would be obsessed with spending so you are truly in a unicorn you know i mean there's nothing wrong with this it's a great attribute to have but all you're asking me is are you out of balance yeah pretty much because you know i see like the lifestyle of all these these people that live in la and you don they have. No, but I would like to be at a point in my life where in the future, you know, I'm able to just have the money to do that. I'm willing to delay gratitude now.

Exactly. You're delaying pleasure to win. And that's a sign of maturity. But while you're doing that, make sure you're enjoying your money and giving something. Make sure there's a generosity item in your budget and charity in your budget and make sure that there's enjoyment in your budget, too. But I don't think you're too far out of balance by the fact you're asking the question. You know what I've learned after talking to so many people who have been victims of ID theft?

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Hi, Lavina. How are you? Hi, Mr. Ram Hi, LaVena. How are you? Hi, Mr. Ramsey. I'm good. How are you? Good. Better than I deserve. What's up? Okay, so my question is, do you believe it's wise to consolidate student loans? My total student loans is about $51,000, and we're on baby step two. And just to give you a little bit of background, I got this letter in the mail stating that they're able to consolidate my loans and either reduce my monthly payment or do like a total loan forgiveness. And they're stating they're backed by the Department of Education. And I'm just a little leery about it.

Ashley called and talked to the lady, and she stated that she'll be able to bring my payments down to $9 a month, which was crazy because right now we're paying $3.56 a month for my student loan. So I'm just wondering, is that like a bogus company? $9 a month on $51,000 is bogus. bogus yeah i mean that's a lot unless you're going to be in debt 5 000 years i mean just do the simple division right 51 000 divided by nine dollars how many months is that oh my goodness not to mention interest right so it's 5 000 years i mean it's ridiculous i'm exaggerating but not much no that apparently this is a scam letter you've gotten but let's um our company that sent out a scam

that's a scammer that sent out a letter but uh let's address the issue of does consolidation help how many different loans do you have uh it's three different loans. And what are the interest rates on them? The interest rate is a little outrageous. It probably went up to like 18 or 19%. Why? They're not Sallie Mae loans then? Well, they used to be. But they got transferred to Fed Loan Services. Not at 18%.

Sallie Mae loans never turn into 18%. Something going on here. Let's put it back in it. Yeah, okay. So anyway, the only reason you would consolidate is not to have one loan instead of three. One loan of $51,000 pays off in exactly the same amount of time as three loans that equal $51,000

if the interest rate is the same and the payment is the same. You see? So let's say you were going to pay $1,000 a month and the interest rate on all of them was 6%. And after you consolidated, the interest rate on all of them was 6% in the consolidation and you were going to pay $1,000. You would pay them off in exactly the same amount of time. So having one versus three doesn't help. and you were going to pay $1,000. You would pay them off in exactly the same amount of time.

So having one versus three doesn't help. The only reason, then, that you would consolidate is to get a lower interest rate. You don't want a lower payment because we want to pay off the loans. We want a higher payment. We want to pay more. I don't want you paying $351 for 800 years. I want you to pay, you know, $5,000 a minute until they're paid off. You see what I'm saying? Yes.

So we want to increase the amount that you're paying, maybe not in the loan itself but in your plan, because we want to pay this off as soon as we can. So what's your household income? Total is around $67,000 from both me and my husband. How much other debt do you have, not counting your home? So we don't have a home, but we don't have a whole lot of other debt, so it's maybe like $6,000 or $7,000 on top of the student loan, so it's not that much.

No car debt? No car debt at all. Okay, good. Good. All right. Well, what I would do is put you on a written budget. And let's say that out of $67,000, you paid off $25,000 a year, which would be on beans and rice, rice and beans. You'd have no life. Okay?

That's $2,000 a month. You'd be done in two years. Let's say that you did $1,500 a month. You'd be done in two years let's say that you did fifteen hundred dollars a month you'd be done in two and a half years okay that's the way i want you thinking about it rather than how little i can pay a month and because the less you pay you're going to be in debt forever right that's right you want to clear it up i want want no debt. What would it feel like to have no student loan debt? Wow. That's so amazing. Yeah.

So the only reason we consolidate is to lower the overall interest rate. So find out what the real interest rates are on the three loans. If you can get a better interest rate on the three loans by consolidating while you aggressively pay it off in the next two to three years, then get after it. That's fine. If you have a traditional Sally Mae loan, I doubt you're going to get a better interest rate. But if you have an 18% loan, you might get a better interest rate.

I'm not sure what's going on here exactly with what you're describing. But get into it, learn about it, kill it. Get on a written budget. Get over to everydollar.com, get your budget loaded. And it's free. You can start doing your budget. The two of you sit down together and go, hey, we're going to get rid of written budget. Get over to everydollar.com. Get your budget loaded. And it's free. You can start doing your budget. The two of you sit down together and go, hey, we're going to get rid of this budget. We're not going to live like this.

We're not going to live like this. Ricky is in Asheville, North Carolina. Hi, Ricky. How are you? Good. How are you, Dave? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Well, I recently got introduced to your plan, and me and my wife sat down with your budgeting app, and we realized exactly how broke we are. So we're starting a new program, and one of the issues I have is I've got some debt coming up that I know I'm going to have that I'm going to incur. I'm just curious about how to save for it. Okay. I have three girls. I have three girls, and they're all three going to need braces. Mm-hmm. And they're all three going to be going to college. I've got a 13-year-old, an 11-year-old, and a 9-year-old. Okay.

Well, we've got a little time on the college, so we can put that in our baby steps that we talk about. That's baby step five. In other words, we're not going to deal with college today. Right now, we're going to get you out of debt, because if you didn't have any debt payments, you'd have more money to invest. Agreed? Yes, sir. So we're going to get you out of debt so that you can invest so that you've got some money to put in our college fund. But right now, you're just trying to break even and feed yourself and get your debt cleaned up. That's your first step. As far as braces go, what I do is get a good solid

bid from the doc and then, you know, say this is what it's going to cost. And they do two types of programs with those. You can lease them or rent them, so to speak, or you can just pay for them. I paid for ours is what we did. And so we found out it's $3,500, and we just saved it up. We just put it in our budget and said, okay, the kid's going to need braces in, you know, five months. So we're going to save $700 a month, so we got $3,500, okay? Or we're going to wait a year, and it's going to, you know, it's $300 a month, and we're going to have $3,600 saved, and we're going to have an item, line item in our budget

where we save so much a month, pay ourself a payment. That equals the total by the time we need the money. So find out when they're going to need braces and how much they're going to be. And then you plug that back that into your budget and pay for them and pay cash for them at that. And then we're going to get to college when we get to it. That's what we call baby step. Baby step five in our 7 Baby Step program. So that's what we're going to do.

Hey, thanks for the call, man. We appreciate you joining us. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Caitlin's in Vermont. Hi, Caitlin. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi. Oh, my gosh.

I'm a little nervous and really excited to talk to you. Well, I'm honored to speak with you. How can I help? Well, I have a question about a Parent PLUS loan. This was a loan my parents took out for me when I started college, and this was a few years ago. Kind of halfway through my college career, my parents said, okay, you should start making half the minimum payments. And I kind of continued to do that. And then when I graduated, I made the minimum payments. And now my husband and I are working through the baby steps.

We're just about done with baby step two. This is like our last big debt. And we're moving in about nine months. We're moving halfway across the country. And I'm kind of getting nervous that paying this off is only going to put us like right at the end of baby step three, right before we move. And I just kind of want nervous that paying this off is only going to put us like right at the end of baby step three right before we move. And I just kind of want your advice. Okay.

What are your alternatives? Well, my big question is should we continue to pay this? I mean, we've already put – Did you promise to pay it? That's the thing. When I started college, there was never this discussion of, oh, we're taking this out for you. You should pay it. It was kind of just a, oh, we expect you to pay this half.

And then, okay, here's the login information. I think, number one, it's not your loan. It's their loan. But if you made an agreement to pay it with them, then you should pay it. If you didn't make an agreement to pay it, then they don't should pay it. If you didn't make an agreement to pay it, then they shouldn't be asking you to pay it. So I think you've got to have this discussion with your parents and come to a

conclusion on the moral aspect of this. Did you make a promise or not? And let's have some clear discussions about that. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Can you believe this real estate market? Home shopping has become so competitive. There's a ton of new buyers in the market, and bidding wars are the new normal.

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Call 888-LOAN-200 or visit churchillmortgage.com. This is a paid advertisement. NMLS ID 1591. NMLSconsumeraccess.org. Equal housing lender. 761 Old Hickory Boulevard, Brentwood, Tennessee 37027. Justin and Megan are with us in Charleston, West Virginia. Hi, Justin and Megan. How are you? Hey, Dave. Good. How are you? Better than I deserve. I see on my screen you're debt-free. Congrats.

Yes, thank you. Wow. How much have you paid off? We paid off just over $22,000 in just about a year. Way to go. And your range of income during that time? We were right about $110,000 at the time. Cool. What do you all do for a living?

I'm an accountant for a small regional bank here in West Virginia. And I do public relations for the largest water utility in West Virginia, and I also own a small business with my twin sister called Rock Paper Sisters. Oh, very cool. Good for you guys. And what kind of debt was the $22,000? It was, the majority of it was a student loan and also our car payment. Ah, very cool.

Good for you guys. So how old are you? I am 32. I'm 34. So how old are you? I am 32. I'm 34. And how long have you been married? We just celebrated our 10th anniversary. So after 10 years or 9 years, something happened 12 months ago. What happened? Well, we actually, a Financial Peace University class was offered through our church,

and at the time we were in another small group and we weren't able to take the class. But we had several friends who were taking the class and they were talking about this Dave Ramsey and, you know, all the great things that they were doing. And we were like, you know, we really need to look into this. And so the next time the class was offered, we jumped on it. And when I say we jumped on it, we got very gazelle intense about it um I'm one of those that I just jump in head first and so I'm listening to your podcast every day I've read every single one of the books um and we just we really got after it so um that's that's really what sparked us was Financial Peace University and just you know following, following the steps. Wow. Very cool.

Very cool. So what was the thing when you got into the class that made you go? Were you just already on fire, or did you say, wow, this kind of makes sense. I can do it. I mean, tell me how the transition worked in your brain. Because for nine years you've been doing it one way, and suddenly you make a sharp turn. Right. So why the suddenly? It had a lot to do with the fact

that you know i'm an accountant and so a lot of this stuff sort of made sense and i could make spreadsheets and hundreds of spreadsheets and show them to megan and um it didn't really do a whole lot of good if she wasn't really interested in the spreadsheets um so it's like when we took the class we took the class sort of the long-term goals and that sort of thing really spoke to megan um and and she's not kidding when she said she got um a little obsessed with all things dave And we took the class, sort of the long-term goals and that sort of thing really spoke to Megan. And she's not kidding when she said she got a little obsessed with all things Dave Ramsey. And so that really sort of pushed us in the right direction. Gotcha. Okay.

So you were showing her how, but the class gave her a why. It's exactly right. Exactly right. We had several spreadsheets of budgets, and here's our spending, and here's all this. But, I mean, I could stick a spreadsheet in front of her, and it just really wasn't doing it. Yeah, you've got to have a reason. You've got to have a reason to do all that. Yeah.

And when we started to use your tools, especially EveryDollar, I mean, like Justin said, monthly we were talking about our budget, and he was making spreadsheets, and it was just like, oh, okay, that's great. But it wasn't until we both had the app on our phone. It was so easy. We're both looking at our budget. Now we're having our monthly budget meeting, but we're also in real time every day kind of looking at our budget together. And it became almost sort of fun.

We're watching our budget. We're watching our debt just kind of trickle down. And so it was really an easy process to get into. Cool, very cool. So what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is? I think the key to getting out of debt is, first and foremost, to budget. I mean, that was our biggest hurdle to get over was sitting down together, doing our budget, sticking with the budget. And also, it requires gazelle intensity. It does require sticking to it, making your plan,

and following that plan. And so I think that that's absolutely the key. It's number one, making your budget, and number two, sticking with your plan. Cool. And Justin, that's what you've been trying to do anyway, right? Right, exactly. But to be honest, when we did financial peace, the long-term goals really spoke to both of us. The thought of being able to pay for our son's college and the idea of paying off our house early, those things are really exciting when you look at it,

and it's easier to make those short-term changes that become habits in your life, and they kind of flow over to your long-term goals. Well done, you guys. Do you have people cheering you on or saying you were crazy? Everyone was so supportive. I mean, we had a ton of people around us that were super supportive and motivating. I mean, paying off debt does not come without sacrifice, and so we did a lot of things in the last year that, you know, some people would probably find a little bit crazy.

You know, we didn't take a vacation. Oh, my gosh. We skipped a trip to Napa with our friends who were celebrating their 40th birthday. You know, all these things we kind of said, no, you know, we've got a plan. We've got a plan. We've got a plan. And so, but still, everyone was very motivating, very supportive. And so we're finding now that with our intensity, we're now motivating others.

And so we've actually recently been asked by our pastor to lead a Financial Peace University class at our church. And so we're excited to be doing that in the fall. So we're really, we're proud of ourselves, really, that we're able to,'re able to kind of motivate others as we're going through this process. Well, there's no question after talking to you, you're going to be able to do it without any trouble at all. People are going to be fired up just hanging out with you all. Way to go. I'm proud of you. I'm very proud of you.

Very well done. Thank you so much. And obviously your pastor is. That's good stuff. He's looking at you going, this couple's on fire, man. So good stuff. Very, very cool. Well, thank you guys so much.

Congratulations. We're very proud for you. Thank you. We've got a copy of Chris Hogan's retire-inspired book for you. That is the next chapter in your life. You're going to become millionaires now and outrageously generous as you go along, giving and giving back in lots of ways as you go, and you're going to have the money to do it.

And, I mean, you're young. You make $100,000. You got no debt. How does it feel? It feels awesome. It's amazing. It really is amazing. Well done.

All right, Justin, Megan, Charleston, West Virginia, $22,000 paid off in 12 months after 10 years of marriage. $110,000 a year income. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! I love it! I love it.

I love it, I love it, I love it, I love it, I love it. Wow. You know, listening to them, it reminded me that you can get through anything if you have a reason. You have to be able to see light at the end of the tunnel. That's not an oncoming train. You've got to be able to see the other side. And if you can see the other side, you can walk across the hot coals. If you can see the other side, you can walk through poop to your knees.

If you can see the other side, you can get there. But seeing the other side, knees if you can see the other side you can get there but seeing the other side you know how you see the other side you got to get some height you got it you can't be down in the poop you got to get your head up over it so you can look out past it and when and what that is is the the nobility of your thoughts let me tell you what i mean when all you're thinking about is, well, I wish I could just go to the grocery store. I just want to be able to pay the light bill. You're down in the poop.

But when you elevate your thoughts to a different level of nobility and you say, I want to send my kid to college. I want to retire with dignity. I want to be a millionaire so i can be outrageously generous i won't be able to travel and do anything i want to do when you start looking out into the future you do that by getting a different height to your thoughts and then you can look past the stuff if you can look past the junk you can walk through the junk just talking to a friend of mine that had a very

painful surgery and he's like me he's pretty much a sissy any kind of pain is a bad idea you know and he was whining and carrying on and the doctor told him look you're going to have 16 days of hell it's going to be bad on the 17th, and 19th day, you're going to start feeling relief. And progressively from then on. You got to hold your breath for 16 days. But after that, it's going to be okay. It's going to start getting progressively better. The pain's going to drop.

And he said, sure enough, I made it to the 15th day, but all I was doing was looking past it so that I could walk through it. You see the difference? That's why you have to know why you're doing something, not just how you're doing something. Because it gives you the ability to get height above it to look past it. You've got to have your why. Why are you doing this? This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Thanks for joining us.

What if you didn't have any payments? What if there was no MasterCard? You hadn't discovered bondage or American distress. You weren't caught in a car fleece. You gave Sally Mae her eviction notice and kicked the old woman out into the street think about your budget right now think about your income what if you had no car payment no credit card payments no student loan payment no medical bills outstanding what if you had no debt?

What if you had no mortgage payment? All you had to buy was lights, water, and food Some insurance And you could do some investing How much would you give if you weren't broke? and you could do some investing. How much would you give if you weren't broke? If you weren't working for everybody else, if you weren't working for Lexus Motor Credit,

Toyota Motor Credit, Chrysler Motor Credit, Ford Motor Credit, how many motor credits do I have to give you before you get this? If you weren't working for Countrywide, if you weren't working for Visa and MasterCard and, God help you, Bank of America, if you weren't working for Sally Mae, what if you worked for you? What if you had no payments? Would you work at the job you work at if you didn't have to to pay payments?

Would you take a different job? Would you tell them to take that job and, yeah, you would, wouldn't you? Next time the boss comes in being a jerk, you could just start walking out. Where are you going? I don't have any payments. You see, Proverbs 22, 7 in the Bible says the borrower is slave to the lender.

Now, Dave Ramsey, you're one of those crazy Christian people, aren't you? Yep. Unabashedly so, darling. But it's not really crazy. It's just kind of common sense. The borrower is slave to the lender. You tell me. Are you a slave or not?

Slaves don't have choices. Other people tell them what to do. Their life is owned by someone else. I owe, I owe, so off to work I go, says the bumper sticker. Ha ha, not funny. Spend your whole life giving money to people who have 50-story buildings in the skyline. Guess who paid for those?

You. The borrower is slave to the lender. Have you ever thought that it might not be possible to be generous when you're a slave? When someone else controls you, how hard is it to be generous? What if you had no payments? Could you build wealth? The average car payment in America is $504 right now over 84 months. If you invest $504 in a decent growth stock mutual fund that has the rates of returns

that my personal mutual funds have had in my personal 401k for the past 40 years, if you were to do that from age 30 to age 70, you'd have about $5.6 million in your Roth IRA, just the car payment. That's what your car payment's costing you. $5.6 million. Hope you like the car. And they go down in value, like a rock. That's where Chevy gets that, like a rock. What would it be like to have no payments?

Would you work where you work if you didn't have to make money to pay other people that you owe? The number of people who change careers or change jobs once they're free and make the most money they've ever made in their lives because they're able to change jobs and make the most money they've ever made in their lives because they're able to change jobs and make the most money they've ever made in their lives after they get out of debt, it's almost a common occurrence among the debt-free screamers that while they're getting out of debt or post-debt freedom, they make different career choices because they no longer feel trapped.

You know why you feel trapped when you got a bunch of payments? Because you're trapped. That's why you feel trapped. The borrower is slave to the lender. The only difference was this was voluntary slavery. You signed up for it. I signed up for it. We were told that this is how you live.

The little man can't get ahead. It takes money to make money. You're never going to have anything nice, so you might as well have some decent payments. Get low payments because that's the only way a little man like. People in our neighborhood, people like us, people of our ethnic background, the only way we get ahead is payments. Ever heard those sayings?

Heard them my whole life. I've heard them from every ethnic background, by the way. I've heard them from Hispanics. I've heard them from African Americans. I've heard them from hillbillies and heard them from Cajuns. Rednecks. Yankees, Dutchmen.

I've heard it from every German background, although most Germans are pretty conservative financially. I've even heard it from Canadians. Go figure. You're not different Stupid knows no bounds Stupid will show up in any race In any region And it'll settle in and make itself normal The borrower is slave to the lender

If you didn't have any payments, you could build wealth, couldn't you? How fast would you be a millionaire if you didn't have any payments? Put your house payment in a calculator as an investment instead of a payment. How fast would that turn into a million dollars? I'll help you with that. Eight years.

Eight years after you pay off your house, that one account will approximate a million dollars with average house payment in America today. This is ridiculous, people. Everybody else is getting rich, and you're helping them. You're working and working and working and working and working

like a rat in a wheel, And you put yourself in the wheel. I did too. I've done so many stupid things with money I can't even count them. I have a PhD in DUMB. What qualifies you to do this show, Dave? What degrees do you have? I've got something, honey, that you don't have. It's called experience.

Been there, done that, got all the t-shirts. I got every Boy Scout badge of stupidity that there is. I know exactly what stupid looks like. I've done it up close and personal and called it smart. You ever done stupid and called it smart? But when stupid gets stress tested, it gets exposed to stupid, doesn't it? I mean, when the tide goes out, you can tell who's skinny dipping, can't you? Your great little plan to invest in real estate worked real good until 2008, didn't it, stupid? Your great little plan to do XYZ worked until it didn't work, didn't it, stupid? Your great little plan to go $250,000 in debt to get a degree in left-handed puppetry worked until it didn't work, didn't it, stupid? Hey, we've all done stupid, darling.

The borrower is slave to the lender, voluntarily signing up to give our lives away. Well, this show's about breaking free. This show's about no more chains. This show is about you taking back control of your destiny. This show is about believing and showing you exactly how step by step, process by process, you can get your most powerful wealth building tool back. It's called your income. And if you don't go get it back, it's going to be your fault because I'm going to show you how. If you don't go get your income back, it's going to be your fault because I'm going to inspire you

and show you other people that did it. If you don't go get control of your life again by getting out of debt and using your income to build wealth, it's your fault starting today. I don't know how long you've been listening to this show, but it's time to listen to what is being said on this show. You spent too much of your life giving it away to other people. It's time. Aren't you sick and tired of away to other people. It's time. Aren't you sick and tired of being sick and tired? Well, it's time to do something about it. I've had it. When you say that, that's when you change.

The borrower is slave to the lender. How much would you give if you weren't in debt? How much could you invest if you weren't in debt? How fast would you build wealth if you weren't in debt? How much could you invest if you weren't in debt? How fast would you build wealth if you weren't in debt? This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, it's Kelly, Dave's phone screener. We finished 2017 with a bang

as the fourth most downloaded podcast of the year. Thanks to all of you for listening and helping us spread the word.