The Ramsey Show - App - Life Happens—But Your Plan Doesn’t Have to Fall Apart

Episode Date: May 12, 2025

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author and host of the new Ramsey Network's hit Front Row Seat. He's my co-host today. Open phones here at 888-825-5225. Thanks for being with us. Anna is in Huntsville, Alabama.

Hi, Anna, how are you? Hi, I'm good. Thanks for being with us. Anna is in Huntsville, Alabama. Hi, Anna, how are you? Hi, I'm good. Thanks for having me. Sure. What's up in your world? So, my question is, I am seeking advice on how to stay afloat after a divorce and my ex-husband is not paying child support. Why?

Well, so, I was married for 20 years. Why is he not paying child support. Why? Well, so I was married for 20 years. Why is he not paying child support? Okay, well he he uses it to control me. It was an abusive marriage and I've been out for five years and so for that five years, I mean it's been it's been a tool that he has hung on to that he can control me with. How far behind is he on his child support payments? It's hard to even tell. And I've gone that whole route with DHR. They don't actually

go and get him. There's a worn out out or whatever so I guess I don't I don't want to go down that too far because I want to know what what can I do to to stay afloat and support myself I'm tired of being I mean obviously you mathematically have to build a life that doesn't include child support is the answer to your question right exactly Exactly. So what have we got to do? What's your income? So my income is fifty thousand. I was a stay-at-home mom so just started working at the end of the marriage which was like five years ago. So I do own my home, well I have a mortgage on my home and I owe I have credit card debt because I've lived off of credit cards when he didn't pay how much credit card debt have you got so

thirty thousand dollars I have a year ago I closed all of the accounts and negotiated the interest rates down to zero or three or four percent so I have been paying them off and not spending any more you know on credit cards. That's credit, that's progress, good. So progress but the child support has stopped again recently. How much money, let me ask you this, how much money is his child support payment and if you had gotten that consistently would that put you in a good place with your budget? Is it a surplus? In other words, you could just tell me how much more money do you need to make? So what's that replacement number? I would say I need to make $2,000 more dollars a month. How many babies

do you have? Well, I have three, but they aren't babies anymore. Two are grown and the youngest one now is a senior in high school. Okay, she only got child support on one for just a couple of years. Right, right. Because the two grown ones aren't a problem, so we're just raising one kid that's a senior on 50 grand. And why can't you live on 50 grand in Huntsville, Alabama? Well because I think one, because I have the debt that I'm trying to pay off. So I'm paying $704 a month to the credit card payment. My house payment is $1,800 a month, and that includes taxes and insurance. And then I have a I have a car that's $253 a month

and I owe $10,000 on it. So you know I'm wondering do I sell my house, I have about $120,000 in equity, pay everything off and just start over from scratch and try to... It's not a bad plan if you can't turn the corner on this. If you could get your income up and turn the corner and keep the house I would work on doing that. I don't mind working an extra job for a short period of time to clear the car and clear the credit card. And then that gets you in balance without him. And he isn't gonna be around but about 18 more months anyway as far as child support goes. Exactly.

So I'm very motivated to just to be on my own and be free. What do you do for work? So I work in marketing and like I said didn't have a career so started off. What are you doing in marketing? I work, I'm a trade show coordinator. So basically live event, right? Yeah. Handling logistics on live events. But so your hours are irregular. Well, no, they are regular. Monday through Friday, 8 to 5, so definitely could do something on the weekend. And you could probably use that skill on the weekend.

Yes. And make really good money. Yeah, and I think you've been doing this for five years, and I understand the imposter syndrome that a lot of stay-at-home moms have, but you've been back in the world of work for five years, and I think it's time to raise your sights a little bit here. I agree with Dave. In the meantime, we need to be getting a second job to try to bring in an additional 1,500, 2,000 a month. That'd be the target that I would be going after,

because that gives you some breathing room to knock this debt out. But I would also, while you're doing that, be looking at the world of work. And we're going to give you my book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do. It comes with the Get Clear Assessment. Please spend 15 to 20 minutes taking this

and then read the book where I coach you how to take that information, what you're good at, what you enjoy doing, and the results you care about, turn it into more money. But we're gonna give you that tool at the end of the call, but the point I'm trying to encourage you with is, you have far more opportunity to make more than 50,000 than you probably realize,

and awareness of what you can do and where you can do it is, I think, homework item number one to see your future and get your confidence up. Right. You're exactly right. My confidence was completely gone when I got, you know, at the end of the marriage. So it's been five years of just realizing that, you know, that I am capable. How much is the child support a month? He was supposed to be paying $2,500 a month. So there's $30,000 on the table there too. Listen, so I want you to be free of the need for that

because that's gonna add confidence and I want you to be looking like Ken. I'm gonna speak as your older brother. I think you're a whole lot better than you feel like you are. Yes, thank you. And I think that has added to the desperation and the flopping around with money stuff. Yeah, it has.

You probably mathematically could have tightened up and made it without going into credit card debt but you were still healing from the toxic situation. Yes. And while you're in the middle of that you don't you know everything's chaotic and out of control and now you're gonna get very dialed in very in control on your on your income side of the equation and we're also going to put you in the every dollar premium and walk you through getting out getting rid of this debt. If you can't turn the corner on the income and get this debt moving away within 12 months I do want you to look at selling the house but I think you can do it without selling the house.

Do you like the house? I do. Okay. You know, I would prefer. Is it where you wanna live when you're an empty nester? Yes. Okay, then fight for it. Okay, yes. And you're a warrior. To that end, Dave, I wanna ask you, do you think it's worth her becoming

that department of whoever they are in the Alabama state government be their worst nightmare? I'm all up in his. Me too. I'm all up in their stuff. I mean, the guy doesn't pay for his kid. I'm gonna light his life up. But I don't want her emotionally dependent on it.

I just want her to go over there and stick a cattle prod on him. Oh yeah. Metaphorically speaking. Maybe, yeah. This is the Ramsey Show. ["Ramsey Show Theme"] Natalie is in New York. Hey Natalie, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi Mr. Dave, hi Ken. I hope you guys are doing well.

Good, how about you? I am doing okay. I want to be better than I deserve, but not yet. Okay. I have a little bit of a pickle going on. My husband and I got ourselves into some major debt. We purchased a home and we weren't ready. That's one of the top things. And now in the season in life we can't really pick up extra jobs. I myself, I'm trying to see if I can get something after the kids go to bed,

but that timeframe is kind of difficult. But we're in the red almost every month even though we're making 200k on paper, less deductions of child support. But we basically have to choose what we have to default on to catch up and make payments to start a snowball debt. Defaulting is not a method of catching up. I know. I'm kind of a lost, but I don't really know what to do. How much is your house payment? Right now we're doing a catch-up payment for three thousand five hundred.

What is your normal house payment? $2,800. And you make $200,000 a year? Yeah, my husband does $450 a week on child support. So mine is that. How much a week? $150 a week. Well that's only $1,800 a month. That's not killing you. No. Okay, and the house payments not killing you. Well that's only eighteen hundred dollars a month that's not killing you. No. Okay and the house payments not killing you so where's the money going? It's all going to debt. We basically have nothing. How much of the debt do you have? A lot so with this from home repairs in between i've been in in and out of jobs i can show you that do you make 200k or don't you now we do right now you make 200 000 okay so you have home repairs that you did that you couldn't afford how much do are they so we did uh loans so the first one was 30 000 the other one was thirty thousand yellow one fourteen okay so we owe forty four

thousand on home repairs mm-hmm okay how much credit card dad credit card I mean hello about twenty thousand about twenty thousand okay maybe twenty five forty four and twenty five all right and how much do you own your cars? Well, one is 13. The other one 16 Okay and How much are you putting in your 401k every month? I Don't have one. My husband has a pension. He's part of the union

Are you guys really making two hundred thousand? of the Union. Are you guys really making 200,000? On paper we are. I don't know where the paper is that you're adding this up. That's what I can't figure out. You've got enough money to pay these bills if you're making $20,000 a month. Yeah that's the thing. I'm puzzled. I signed up for every dollar. My thing is up and I can't afford, unfortunately, the premium on that. Darling, it's $9. So bull crap. Okay. If you make $200,000 a year, you can't afford not to pay the premium on that.

So, um, anyway, the, um, hmm. Anyway, the... We also have a $99,000 home equity loan out. Oh, there's a detail. Okay. Any other details I left out? Our cost of living is pretty high. No, is there any other debt? Any other debt? Student loans? Wait a minute.

What happened to your phone? Hey, speak into your phone. Sorry, I was just looking at the spreadsheet that I have. I will try to keep your mouth near the phone when you're doing that looking thing. Um, all right. So, all right. So yeah yeah sell your house. Okay. Yeah and then you guys quit buying crap you can't

afford because the home equity loan, the home improvement loans, and a bunch of the credit card debt are all associated with this house. Yeah. Yeah. And the house will bring enough to pay a bunch of that off. It'll pay off the home equity loan for sure. Your cars are bad, but they're not out of control. But it's everything associated with this house. You guys look at something, and then you just go freaking buy it.

Home Depot must love you people. So yeah, this house is eating you alive. I mean, you've got like $160,000, $170,000 in non-mortgage house debt. Yeah. Yeah. Cray-cray. That's where that falls under. So sell the house. Yeah.

Yeah, you've got to clear the house and clear this mess. And then, yes, you guys have to get on a written detailed detailed budget you can do it with the yellow pad or you can do it with our little app it doesn't cost that much that's not the point though I think the point is your husband's not involved and you guys have never said no to yourselves and you're disorganized and you've got to get up above this thing and start telling your money what to do instead of wondering where it went. You got on the call and you don't even know how much debt you have. You're having to turn and look at stuff off phone to figure out where you are.

When you're this screwed, you need to know exactly where you are at all times until it goes away. And so dial it in, dial it in, dial it in. Yeah, you need to sell the house. Sure do. And I don't think you're going to though. Yeah, I'm just listening. And Natalie, I'm not beating up on you. I would just say this.

You strike me as a person who's exhausted because you've just been fighting the waves of life that you've created. And I don't know if you've ever been in a really choppy boat situation where you're just hanging on and trying not to fall over. That gets exhausting. And you're at that place but I'm not sure you're fully exhausted enough and I think Dave's right I would reset with the house but

this will happen to you again if you guys don't get to a point of realizing that you've done this to yourself. You've created this problem yourself so you guys got to fix whatever's going on inside of you that's making you long to make these dumb decisions Better fix that or else those house is gonna be a temporary solve Yeah, and I'll throw out there if it hasn't got it may not have to do with your situation Natalie But we've there are two major purchases that we've lied to you folks in America about Homeownership and a college degree and the lie is that no matter what it costs,

you've got to go get one to be successful. No matter if I can afford it or not, I've got to go get one to be successful. And those are both lies. Okay? There's only one way to go to college and do higher education and that's a smart way. Pay cash for a degree that's actually usable. Don't get a degree in left-handed puppetry from some name university and go $250,000 in debt and end up a barista. That's thing number one because all college degrees are not worth the money.

Some are worth a lot more than you pay, not the degree itself but the knowledge that you get. Home ownership, when you buy a house you can't afford, you get broker and broker. Broke people shouldn't buy houses. Makes you broker and broker. That's why they call them brokers. No, you should not be buying a house when you're broke. You ought to get your butt out of debt. You ought to have some savings, have a good emergency fund, a good strong down payment, have control of your money like an adult, and only then is a home a blessing.

But buying real estate just because, oh real estate, so everybody's gotta buy a house, you gotta buy a house, you gotta buy a house, no they don't. If you're dumb and broke, don't buy a house, it's gonna make your life worse. It's, you know, and so, it's the same apple we're biting on with the education crap.

And it's like we've told people, no matter what it costs, no matter how dumb it is, no matter how out of control it is, go do it because it'll work itself out because these two things are so valuable, a college degree and homeownership, that you can't make it in America without them. Well, by God, you can make it in America without either one of them, and you sure can't make it in America if you do either one of those wrong. That's right. I heard her say, after laying out all of the details to you financially, she said, then our cost of living is so high, and here's what I think she was meaning, and this is tied to the house. She lives in New York City. The cost of living like everybody else

we live around is too high. New York City. That's right. But this idea that I got to send my kids to the same school as everybody else, and I got to have a car like everybody else, that's a cost of living sometimes that we manufacture because we're trying to keep car like everybody else. That's a cost of living sometimes that we manufacture because we're trying to keep up with everybody else. Yeah, that's a good point. There's a difference between cost of lifestyle and cost of living. Very different.

And that's what I'm hearing is the lifestyle that came with the house. Living is food, shelter, clothing, and transportation. Lifestyle is all the goodies around food, shelter, clothing, and transportation. To live like we wanna live. Lifestyle's eating out. Lifestyle's a car that everybody looks at at the stoplight for all the right reasons.

That's a lifestyle. If you're getting out of debt, you buy a car that everybody looks at the stoplight for all the wrong reasons. They think you're in the wrong neighborhood. This is The Ramsey, your host Ken Coleman's here. Damon is in San Jose, California. Hi Damon, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Thank you sir.

What's up? So how do I or should I ever disclose to my wife that we are secretly worth millions of dollars? How long you been married bro? Five years. Are you from another culture or did you grow up in America? Yes. I grew up in the United States for 20 years. Where did you grow up in America? Yes. I've been in the United States for 20 years. Where did you grow up? I was born in Korea but I was raised in

Tenozei. Okay. When did you go? How old are you? So you're raised by obviously Korean parents that immigrated here? That is correct. Because in Anglo-America what you just described as you probably realize is pretty whacked. Right? I understand. And yes. That's why I immediately said is there some kind of a cultural reason for this because it's very unusual. So the thing is we are somewhat of a American couple. I work, my wife is a stay-at-home wife because that's just how we chose to. The thing is I'm the

favor and she's the spender. And for me I have been working very hard, working my job, in my business, just to grow to where we are. And I am not sure whether I should ever disclose our net worth to her because I do not know how she's going to react. Yeah. Well, she's probably going to react poorly because she's married to a guy who's deceived her. Unless she's a doormat. I mean, was she raised in a cultural situation where she's a doormat? No, she's not. Yeah, she's probably gonna light you up then. Don't you think? To be honest, the thing is she and I have very different

perspectives when it comes to finances. I got that. I'm a saver, I'm a minimalist, she's very much a free spirit. I know but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the fact that you've been married to her for five years and sleeping with her for five years but she didn't know you got any money. That's deception. I handle all the finances and the money. Honey, you're not listening. You keep deflecting every time I bring this at you. You have deceived your wife actively. She's not going to be cool with that. You hear that? So I understand that she's going to be somewhat, uh, she is going to be angry. What I'm more troubled about is is how she is going to take off,

take the news of these finances and she's going to spend. No, we got that. We're scared to death. You're scared she's going to go spend all your money. I got that. I have a question. The reason you lied to her in the first place. I got that. Did you have any money when you married her? Did you bring family money into the marriage? No, okay, so I heard you say you've worked really hard over the last five years in your business, so you're self-employed Is that right? I?

Have a full-time job, and I have a business on the side. Okay. What's making you the helmet? Here's my question. How much is your income increased from day one of the marriage to today? How much has it increased? Sevenfold. Sevenfold. So you're making what now? $750,000. And so she's noticed that you've gotten more money, correct? She's not living like a... No, he doesn't exhibit any signs of it.

It all goes into savings. Well, I don't know. What was your answer? My answer to... Does she know that you're making more money? No. No. Not at all.

I handle all the finances. So she has a stipend. She has allowance and I give her all the money for the household budget. Alright, I just wanted to get to the bottom of that and make sure that I absolutely understood that. Alright, Damon, here's the thing. I value a quality marriage and relationship going into my old age because we've now been

married almost 43 years. I value that more than money. You don't. So, I'm having trouble connecting with you on this. I can't imagine a world where I would deceive my wife actively about any major thing for five years. About anything, not even a major thing. I don't deceive her about anything. Except if she asks if these jeans make her look fat, I might lie then. But although she's not fat, so there's okay.

So that's an easy play, but right? That's not lying, it's wisdom. But I'm not lying about $750,000 worth of income and millions of dollars worth of net worth that she doesn't know about. I do quite the contrary because she can't grasp where we live today, but she's the saver. So to your point, Damon, how do you do this? I'm not sure I know how to answer your question. I will tell you this, I'm just the older guy sitting over here going, okay, you

brought some culture into this where the guy's in charge and the lady doesn't have any say or any vote, especially if she's the spender. And so all of that combined with your nerd-like paranoia has led you to this deception. And so I'm giving you a little bit of grace here, but I'm telling you, this is not going to end well. The longer you put this off, the worse this is going to get. And there's two things here that you can't put off anymore.

I think you called and asked, so son, you're always going to get an answer here because we love you and we want you to win. So thing number one that's not going to last and go well is your disrespect of your wife. So she and you need to talk about her spending and you all get on the same page. You probably need to lighten up about 25 notches and she probably needs to tighten up about five notches and the two of you get on grown-up pages on how we are going to live our life or you're not going to be able to go forward because you don't respect her you think she's a child and you're treating her as such and that is the second point is your marriage is not going to end well it's not going to last because this stuff blows up and the longer you wait and the

bigger these numbers are the bigger the explosion is going to be. So deal with the relational breakdown between you and her on you not communicating clearly with her and that it terrifies me that you spend out of control it terrifies me that you think you're in Congress it terrifies me we've got to get on the same page honey we got to get in the same page and you've got to get to the point that you respect her competency as an adult and then and also sooner rather than later you've got to stop this deception because those two things are going to end your marriage.

Yeah, I agree with everything Dave said, Damon. Here's what I would do if I were you. I would say to my wife, I have a massive fear problem and because I have a fear problem, I'm a control freak. And don't make this about her. Don't make this at all about her spending because you've actually given her an allowance and based on what you've told Dave and I, she's been fairly compliant. So this is a pretty good lady. She may spend her allowance in a frivolous way, but my goodness,

bro, she ain't a spender. All four dollars. Yeah. So we know you've got her locked down tighter than a drum. So I would lead with, I'm afraid. I'm a control freak because I'm afraid I'm gonna go go get sit with a therapist And I'm gonna dig at the bottom of this, but I've got to confess this This is on me not on you and what I'd like to do is Apologize one two. I'm gonna go get healthy three in the midst of all of that We are going to do a budget together and I'm gonna bring you into everything and for heaven's sakes

I'd start with giving her a bigger allowance man. No, no, you just need to talk about this. No, I know I said third step is after they budget. As a part of the budget, they both need to spend their money. Nobody that's a spouse gets an allowance. Well that's fair, I didn't, that's right, let me correct that because I'm not saying in that context but she's got spending money, whatever that is, and in that budget you need to loosen the reign some as she begins to build back trust because you are going to violate her trust when you tell her this is my point. So you're gonna have to meet her in the middle however you do that. That's fair. I don't mean an actual allowance but. So Damon, Ken and I are

saying you're the problem, not her. That's what we're saying. And you need to go work on you, buddy. This is a weird thing you've done, and you need to own that. Today's question of the day is brought to you by WhyRefi. When life happens and those private student loans go into default, WhyRefi offers real possibilities, not judgment, not like me. WhyRefi will help you explore a low fixed rate loan based on your unique circumstances. Go to yrefi.com slash Ramsey, that's the letter Y, R-E-F-Y,

dot com slash Ramsey might not be in all states. Today's question comes from Aaron in Delaware. I read recently that 88% of shares in the stock market are owned by three major companies, BlackRock, State Street, and Vanguard. Should this be concerning or affect how we invest? Well I have to plead ignorance on the first part of that question. I don't know where you read that. I've not seen that. I don't know if it's true.

I'll cede my time to the gentleman to my left. The gentleman from Tennessee. That's right. It should not be concerning because it doesn't concern me. Because they're not companies. That's right. They're mutual fund companies. They manage mutual funds. They don't own the shares. I do, and Ken does.

And any of you that have a 401k does. Okay, State Street and Vanguard and BlackRock are three of the largest mutual fund families. Each mutual fund has 90 to 200 stocks in it and millions of customers. So I own shares of Vanguard because I buy Vanguard mutual funds sometimes. I own shares of State Street because I buy fund families that are State Street run and operated. So these are not BlackRock and Vanguard and State Street do not

have the ability to tell any of these companies what to do because they own shares in them because they don't really own the shares their customers own the shares. A mutual fund is where you put money and I put money in somebody else puts money in 40,000 other people put money in their 401ks. It's mutually funded then that money is used to buy good for instance growth stocks if it's mutually funded, then that money is used to buy good, for instance, growth stocks, if it's a growth stock mutual fund. Vanguard manages funds like that. State Street manages funds like that, but they're not the owner of the stocks. So wherever you read this was

some kind of conspiracy theory bull crap, okay companies own 85 percent of America and it's the trilateral commission oh crap stay off of that stuff get off the internet if that's all the only garbage you can read ok so i don't know if the 88 percent number is correct I doubt it's that high but but it's very high. Black Street, State Street, and Vanguard, that's if you put fidelity in there, you're getting pretty close to most of the, see most shares on the stock market are not

owned by individual investors. They are owned by mutual funds that individual investors invest in. And so when I put, when I buy shares of Vanguard fund, I am buying into 80 to 200 companies that they bought into. But they're not controlling these companies. I am. I'm the owner as an owner of the mutual fund. So it's not like if an individual person owned each of these companies and they all owned the stock. Yeah, that would be concerning that three people controlled 60 or 70 percent of the

stock market. That would be very concerning, but it's not true, which is helpful. The fact that that's not a fact. So even if these mutual fund companies do control north of 50 percent, which they may very well, if you put in, if you put in fidelity, you probably would get there. I mean, the only one that's ever been troublesome is BlackRock, and they got all up in the woke stuff and started pushing some of the companies to do some of the woke stuff, which has now backfired on them.

And so they were trying to say, we own so many shares of this, you should do so and so. Few of the companies caved to that. And then some of the other companies have some of the other mutual funds have come around gone the other way now so there's a bit of a an offset in that junk but it really didn't have much to do with money it had more to do with cultural philosophy than it did actually affecting your share price or the value of your retirement accounts so So, answer is, should this be concerning

or affect how we invest? Answer is no, for all of those reasons. Make sense? It makes sense to me. Thank you for bailing me out. It's nice. Nice to have you to my left. No troubles.

That's what I'm here for. Been doing it a while. Greg's in Salt Lake. Hey, Greg, what's up? Hi, thanks for having me on, Dave. I'm a long time listener for like 25 years. So we're really grateful to have you have me on. I'm 39 years old and I'm going through

a significant career change. I'm on baby step six, kind of, you know, fourth through six. And I want to know how I should think about the baby steps as well as like my savings with my income drastically decreasing as I try self-employment out for the next little bit. Oof. Why are we drastically decreasing as a part of this process? Yeah, yeah, good question. So I've been working for the last ten years, I've been working in tech in the Bay Area and wanted ready to kind of switch things up

and spend more time with my family. I have four kids and so look I'm going to the self-employment route where I've been going from making over $350,000 a year down to maybe $50,000 the first year, hopefully more, but trying to grow it up from there. So you haven't made this leap yet? I made the leap last week, actually. Walked away from the $350,000 job, gone. Yep. Okay. What are you doing? The same type of technology work just for yourself or something totally different?

What are you doing a little different? I'm a CPA and so I And I've kind of been growing this on the side for the last three years So it's not going to zero but I'm a CPA something in some taxes and bookkeeping for companies and what were you doing previously? CPA, so I've been in some taxes and bookkeeping for companies. And what were you doing previously? Um, two careers. I previously I was doing, I was kind of a supply chain planner for a big tech company. Um, before that I was an auditor as a CPA for five years. Do you have six to 12 months of your income set aside in the

CPA company bank account? Yes. Oh, did you move? Did you move from the Bay to Salt Lake? Yes, exactly. Okay, well now you just answered the biggest question I have for somebody in that situation is do you have six to 12 months of your income set aside? That goes a long way, but that's a big leap. Okay, so you owe money on your

house in Salt Lake right? Yes. Did you sell the house in the bay? I did not own in the bay okay so I just bought one in Salt Lake. Oh okay how much do you own it? I owe eight hundred and fifty thousand dollars on my house. And how much do you have in your retirement accounts? So in my 401k, I have four hundred thousand. And then on top of that more liquid, I have about three hundred thousand dollars in stock, you know, between Vanguard and some tech stocks. And then two hundred thousand, that's in cash, which I know is a lot, but I've kind of been preparing for this jump.

Yeah, I would get this job up and moving and then I'd start paying off your house out of that non retirement accounts But I wouldn't do it till you get this job up and moving I think you're okay to get it up. Yeah, but you got it obviously you're not planning on making fifty thousand You're playing on making a hundred and fifty, right? Yeah, hopefully more than that. Yeah Salt Lake you're gonna be just fine doing that versus bait cost of living in Bay Area Right? Yeah. Hopefully more than that. Yeah. Salt Lake, you're going to be just fine doing that versus Bay cost of living in Bay area. So you're going to be just fine.

Should I put on investing to retirement? Should I put on hold? No, it's 15% of your income. We're talking about $7,000. So keep doing that on my income. Yeah, but you know, I wouldn't put any extra on your house right now. I would just sit on this nest egg and then as soon as you get comfortable with the income steadiness, I'm taking the majority of that 200 not counting your emergency fund. I'm taking all of that stock and I'm throwing it on this house. But you knew that you've been listening for years. and I'm throwing it on this house. But you knew that, you've been listening for years.

Yeah, yeah. I guess the main question was, yeah, how do I keep on investing or do I put that on? That's only $7,000 you keep on doing. 15% of your household income. 7,500 bucks, 15% of 50,000, you know that CPA. Yeah, yeah, fair enough. It's not that much money.

Now, by the time you get up to 150, you're stabilizing, you're going to start chunking on this house anyway. And the whole thing, all your concerns are going away by then. Yep. So what do you think the timeline is to go from 50 to 150? I'm hoping two to three years. That's not fast enough. That's not fast enough. Get aggressive. You're high capacity dude. Act like it.

You're not small potatoes man. You're not used to playing at this level. Get back on this bike and kick it into gear. Drop it into over driving. Let's go, let's go baby. Let's go. Get her done. You got the ability to kick this in.

Don't play Mr. Conservative CPA. Get her. Get after her. You've been running supply chain. You know what these curves look like. You can go get this thing. Go build this business, man. Good for you. Good for you. I'm proud of you. You made a good choice, by the way. You chose life over working all the freaking time.

Good for you. all the freaking time. Good for you. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show. We help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host Ken Coleman, number one best-selling author and host of the brand new hit on The Ramsey Networks. It's called front row seat. He's my co-host today We appreciate you jumping in and joining us today the phone number is triple eight eight two five five two two five Well can tis the season graduation comes along students are walking into the real world

Sometimes out of college sometimes out of high school with no direction on what to do. I'm so proud of you and our team on what we've done with the GetClear assessment. We've been using it as a GetClear career assessment, find the work you're wired to do. For several years it's a huge seller at Ramsey and a lot of you have taken it and it's helped you as an adult get moving and now the student edition is here. Yeah it is it's find the work you are to do student edition and here's the here's the story if you're a grandparent or a parent a family friend and you've got a graduate whether it's high school or college in your life imagine asking them this if you could

use what you do best to do work you love to produce a result that you cared about and make a really good living would that make you excited the answer from every If you could use what you do best to do work you love to produce a result that you cared about and make a really good living, would that make you excited? And the answer from every young person, quite frankly, every person in the world would be absolutely. And that's what this assessment and book do. It's a self-awareness test on those three key areas.

What you're really good at doing, the work you enjoy doing, and the results that that work creates that lights you up. And then we drive you to figure out where that work can be done in the giant world of work. And this is the awareness, Dave, and confidence that we're not teaching in schools. So it's truly the gift that keeps on giving for that person who's launching, whether that be into higher ed or trades or coming out of either the trade schools or college. So

great, great valuable gift there. Only $34.99. The assessment helps them identify their strengths. The book will help them understand the results and figure out what's next. Find the work you're wired to do. Get clear assessment student edition out today. Today's launch day. So you can get a copy at ramsaysolutions.com slash store. You can get 10 copies there too. You can get 25 copies there for all those graduation announcements that are coming in your mailbox. Just send them one right back. This is what you need. A lot of people give them total money makeover

books too. That's right, absolutely. It's that kind of stuff. We want to help youngsters get started on a solid footing, stepping out into the real world. The adult world is a scary, dead-gum deal. Matt is with us in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Hey, Matt, how are you? I'm doing well, thank you, sir. Good. How can we help?

So, my wife and I are in our early 40s, are about to turn 43 and 41 respectively. She just had our fourth child last year and during the pregnancy she started having severe mobility issues. After she gave birth the mobility issues did not improve and her MRI results show significant damage to her back and hips and she's in severe pain most days. She is having to use canes in order to walk. At this point she's barely able to do the stairs to go up to our master bedroom. What are the docs saying for the, what are they saying the fix is?

So there's some significantly invasive surgeries for the back. The doctors do not want to have to do that. So they're gonna try injections first to see if that helps at all. But for the hips she is definitely gonna end up having to do surgeries at some point. So at this point, it looks like she's gonna have one and a half to two years of recovery time after just the hip surgeries. We're hoping to get those done later this year. Is there a bedroom on the first floor? There is not. That's our problem. So you're moving. Currently we have a three-bedroom house, all three bedrooms are upstairs. We have two offices on the main floor, one

of which we've converted into a bedroom for our 17 year old. We've looked at moving, we've looked at trying to do remodels, we looked at potentially adding a residential elevator. All of these are either going to increase our debt. What's your house worth? So we bought it for $320. We currently owe about $245 left on it. What's your house worth? We could sell it roughly for $500. Okay, buy another house for $500 and your debt does not increase. Right and then my problem is I feel like we're going to just be throwing our equity out the window. Honey whoa whoa whoa whoa wait wait wait wait wait. Nobody spent any money. You moved your equity to the next house. You sell your house and you buy another house for 500. The only thing

you're gonna be out is you're selling expenses. But you're not throwing any equity away. That's my other concern is we did go and look to get pre-approved and even selling our house for 500,000 taking the money we make off of it, paying off the one student loan of 45,000 that we have left and taking the difference putting it towards the next house, they're only approved for 200,000 in order to maintain the current payment that we have of about 2,000 a month. So even selling our house for 500,000... No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no didn't tell me in the first round we were paying off student loans, but hypothetically, okay,? So if the interest is not changing much and you pick your equity up on a five hundred thousand dollar house and you buy another five hundred thousand dollar house, the only thing you're out is you're selling expenses. You have the same mortgage basically. So you're either trying to move up in house. I think you're moving up in house.

I think you looked at six and seven hundred thousand dollar houses didn't you I am NOT no well did she I don't know who I am I mean the numbers that you gave me don't work the numbers that you gave me aren't logical math okay all. You understand that if your current mortgage balance is what? Only we owe 240,000. Okay, so give or take you have two hundred and fifty thousand dollars in equity not counting expenses So if you take two hundred and fifty thousand dollars in equity and you buy another Five hundred thousand dollar house. You're gonna have another two hundred and forty thousand dollar loan And the interest rate is very similar. So the payment would be very similar $500,000 house, you're going to have another $240,000 loan. And the interest rate is very similar, so the payment would be very similar.

You follow me? Okay. Okay, that's, so unless you're trying to move up in house, not counting the fact you're paying off your student loans out of this, so your payment's going to go up some because you're getting, you're taking on extra. Instead of borrowing $250,000, you're going to borrow close to $300,000. Okay, so you're going to move up $60,000 in debt with your selling expenses and other things.

But that's perfectly fine. That all works. Or you can move the 17-year-old's butt out of the little study and move him upstairs and switch bedrooms with him. That's what I was looking to do. Yeah, that's pretty simple. And barely move us downstairs and then move him upstairs. Very simple.

Very simple. Okay. Downstairs and then move upstairs very simple very simple Okay So is there other aggravating? Situations to this is she obese We're both heavier yes, okay, so that's affecting all of this Mobility as well because messed up hips and back when you're obese is like a nightmare It's painful is super painful because you're carrying around like an extra person right that's no fun and I'm sorry physical therapy yeah I'm trying to help

herself exactly yeah and so part of this is a weight loss regime right process as well to help her to get her life back bless her heart I'm so sorry man yeah I think your short-term fix is dump the 17 year old upstairs I don't care if he likes it or not his mom's ill he needs to take care of the business and so what we do and if it's inconvenient for him well whoopty everything's inconvenient when you're 17 deal with it if you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and you want to know where your money's going, you have to tell your money what to do. It's called a budget.

It's the dreaded B word. You have to manage money like an adult, like it was your job to manage money. Tell your money what to do. We'll show you how. We have a free budgeting training going on right now with the Every Dollar Team. You learn step step by step how to make and stick to a budget using EveryDollar. It's completely free. Did I mention it's free? Your biggest budgeting questions are answered on live Q&A and we walk you through the whole process. Sign up for free at EveryDollar.com slash webinar.

Joe is in Seattle. Hi, Joe. How are you? Good. Thank you for taking my call. Sure, what's up? I need to know how to financially support myself after separating from my husband. Oh, I'm sorry. How long have you been married?

We've been together 34 years. Good Lord, What happened? Well, that's a long story. He's been basically living a life as a single person all this time. And I am just, I mean, I'm 64 and he's 68, but I'm, I'm not, things are not going to get any different. And so I'm just ready to move on. We do have a net worth of a million point two, thanks to, you know, doing your financial peace university. My goodness. But yeah. So if you split that, you have 600,000, right? Well, yeah, I guess. Why would you not split it?

Well, I guess I don't know how we, well, the IRAs are mainly in his name. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. You get a divorce, you get half. Okay. That's the law, hon. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I guess, I guess so I don't know it just seems more complex than that. No, not really. I mean I'll have a pension coming from a job I had in my younger years. Okay, well that can be factored into the equation.

Are there other assets? So we have 442 in cash. Okay, yeah. We own a home that's probably worth 360. Okay, is it paid for? And then we have, it's paid, yeah. Who wants that, anybody? Is it paid for? And then we have, it's paid. Yeah. Who wants that? Anybody?

Um, I would probably want it because I have grandkids and it's set up for our grandkids. I guess the reason I'm having trouble figuring out how to do this is because I don't want him homeless and we live in Washington state and everything is crazy. He's got $600,000. He's not going to be homeless. If he does, it's his fault. Well, I mean, okay, so I guess he wouldn't be homeless. He'd have more than $600,000 because you have a million two in mutual funds or million two total? No, total. So we have, yeah. So if you took the house, that's 360 of that, of your half. So you would only get like 250 then and he'd get the rest of it. If you take the house as your part, you follow me?

You take the total and divide it by two, then you start just dividing this up. So a friend of mine says that a divorce turns a marriage into a business transaction. This is like you just start going one for you, one for me, one for you, two for me. Yeah, I guess I'm trying to, I mean I don't hate him and I don't want him, I just don't want to be with him anymore and we've actually been living separately on our property for five years already. Although that's insanity. I know it is. That's why I'm like I gotta do it. It's driving me mentally crazy. Exactly you got a painter get off the ladder. This is no fun.

So and that's a mutual thing between us. Yeah so what? Mutual insanity. He's in a motor home and I'm in the house, so. He's already homeless. Yeah, I was getting ready to say, what is your big concern? Is it taking care of yourself financially? Or him. She's worried about him. She doesn't think he can tie his shoes.

It's what it sounds like, yeah. What's the real thing for you? Is there some guilt here? What's going on? I guess I feel, I don't, I want him to be able to... You want him to go away, but you don't want the consequences of the divorce. Bingo.

You want him out, but you don't want to feel bad about yourself. Can't have both. You guys are not married. You're legally married, but you're not married. Right. I both. You guys are not married. You're legally married but you're not married. Right. I agree. We're not. Okay. Then act like it. Let's split this up. Sit down. Divvy this thing up. Everybody gets approximately $600,000 worth of something and if you got

1.2 if that's the number, you got some cash to split up, you're gonna take the house and that's gonna take up a big chunk of yours and then he's gonna get some cash and he's gonna have to find a lot to put the motor home on. Yeah but I'm but I guess my initial call was to you to find out you know yeah I'll have some cut cash but I need to figure out how I'm going to... How much is your pension? It'll be 710 I don't have it yet no it's not much and I don't have much Social Security because I was a stay-at-home mom and I homeschooled our kids okay you got to go to work yeah you're gonna you

have to do something to create some income because you're not gonna have enough of a nest egg if you keep this house right to live off of a nest egg if you keep this house. Right. To live off of a nest egg. Yeah and that's why I initially called. So let's say you get $300,000 you can take about 8% off of that and be safe and so it's not much. It's $25,000 a year and then your little bit of social security and your little bit of pension and all that together is not enough in Seattle with the $360,000 house you got to pay property taxes and insurance and you got to eat so how are you making it now? Well I mean we share everything I do all of our finances still. I know does he

have an income? Yeah he makes about 110 a year. Oh, okay. So he's supporting you right now. Okay. Yeah, so He's he and he's 68 but he plans on working till he's 70 so I I mean and Yeah, I think you're probably gonna develop some kind of a career if you keep this house mathematically Yeah, I'm saying. Yeah, no, and I have no qualms with that. I'm actually more down to Olympia, not Seattle, so it's not as crazy expensive down there as it is in Seattle.

Amen. But my main question was to figure out how I'm going to financially support myself. I know I'm going to have half of the estate, so to speak. Yeah, but if you keep this house, if you keep this house, then you're going to get about $250,000, give or take. And you know, if we rounded up to 300, you're going to have about, you know, 25 or $30,000 a year income off of that at all. So a couple thousand dollars a month plus 700 from the pension plus five or six 600 from social security. Um, I mean, you're gonna be looking at $4,000 a month. I'm not positive you can make it on that,

but if you can run a budget out and make it on that kind of an income, you're going to be fine. Otherwise you're going to have to supplement this asset base or reconsider keeping the house. Well, I mean, if I'm not keeping the house, I'm going to have to pay rent somewhere. So I, so I not the equivalent of $360,000 worth. So, no, that's not true. But you're just wanting all of, you're wanting rid of him, but you're not wanting the consequences

of it. And that's what you're having to work through. I'm sorry. Wow. Wow. Wow. Yeah, I think you're probably going to gin up some income from some kind of a career. And I have to. Literally gonna have to to your point. You laid out what she will bring in so does she need an additional $1,500 a month, $2,000 a month, $2,500 a month and unfortunately at this age she's going to be limited.

There's no question about it, but she can get a pretty good hourly wage She might be able to You are yeah, I'm 64 shut up. Yeah, but you've been doing this for a long time She's not been working in the workplace for a long time So she is limited in her role, but she better get after it pretty quick Yeah, or reconcile with the dude in the trailer who's bankrolling her? That's pretty interesting story. 34 years. You know, what's up with him that he goes and yeah, I'm not staying out there.

That's my point. He's willingly for five years living in the trailer and cousin Eddie out there in the backyard letting her handle the finances. It's like he's got his own tree house. RV. It's got me on got his own tree house. RV. It's got me a RV, Clark. Oh my God. Some mean poker games out there in that trailer.

Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personalities, my co-host. You can visit us here at Ramsey Solutions in the lobby. We do this show on the glass from 1 to 4 central time, Monday through Friday.

It's completely free, so is the homemade chocolate chip cookies and the coffee and it's all good by the way. So there's usually 50 to 200 folks sitting out here and I'm hanging out with us. We appreciate you. Also in the middle of it is the debt free stage where Trent and Becca are standing Hey guys, how are you? Hi Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. Welcome. Where do y'all live? Orlando, Florida. Ah cool. Welcome to Nashville and how much debt have you two paid off? Five hundred and thirty five thousand dollars. Whoa. She says breathlessly I like it and how long did this take? 18 months. 18 months and what yeah

It's a story. Yeah, yes, and in your range of income during the 18 months 245 to 345 okay very cool and the $235,000 worth of debt what kind of debt was it? and the $235,000 worth of debt, what kind of debt was it? 535,000. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, you're right. I'm still trying to catch up. Okay, yeah, the $535,000 worth of debt, what was it? Cars, personal loan, alimony, lump sum,

lots and lots of bad decisions, and our mortgage. Paid off the house. Yes, sir. How much of this was house? Well, we had two houses when we met. We're a blended family So we had we sold his house when we got married and then we paid off. What's now our house? Gotcha Okay, and the X as well the lump sum alimony goes away. This is a good this is a good move Yeah, I like this. This is clean break. Very good. Yes, sir. Very good. Okay. So what did that house bring?

It's worth about 390 the one that you sold. Oh, oh it was 205. I just did it assumption loans I just signed it over to my realtor. Okay. All right, so oh it but that was part of the 235 Yeah, okay. So that one stroke got you down to 330 330 and then from there you got to do that in 18 months making 245 and then you get after it Yes, sir. Anything else big sold? No, she was gifted a luxury car from her grandparents that we sold and bought a 20 year old minivan and dumped that on the house Yeah, you go. That's a good plan. All right, were they were they freaking out when you did that? Um, it hurt some feelings. Yeah I'm sorry. Wow. Well, that's that wild new husband you got. I'm telling you.

Pretty much No, you're clearing up the debt man. How's it feel to be a hundred percent free? Oh my god amazing It's hard to explain financial peace until you experience it. Yeah. Wow Wow I mean when you get rid of an alimony payment, that's even another type of free. On top of mortgage payment, free debt. I mean, all these other things are free, but I mean, that's a sweet one to get rid of. Talk about the monkey off your back. Yeah, no pun. Careful, careful. I think that pun was intended.

All right. I'm in. I like it. Good for y'all. So what made you as you're part of your new blended family to go crazy like this and go down to the minivan, sell the house, throw everything, clean up, clean up, clean up, because that's what you're doing. You're cleaning up a mess from both lives. Well, so I had found you years ago when I was living with my two kids and my parents going through a difficult divorce

and it changed everything for me. I got debt free on my own living with my parents, saved an emergency fund, saved to buy a house, moved out into my very first house with my two kids as a single mom. Shortly after I met this good looking fellow and on one of our first times talking together he told me about his negative equity mobile and it was kind of a

turnoff. We discovered that we were both on the same page we were just in different parts of the journey at that point. So he talked the talk. He wasn't bragging about it he was whining about it. That's a good sign. I traded in a truck a car in a boat for a car with a lot of negative equity in it. But it went from $1,900 a month to $600 a month. So it was a huge win. Heading in the right direction anyway. Yeah, okay.

Yeah, so I've listened to your show so much and I've heard people in similar situations and I've heard you've given a lot of wisdom into those situations. And I knew that we could do it together a lot faster than either one of us could do it alone, plus the emotional support of it. So I stopped my saving, started piling up some cash

when we got engaged, and the day after the wedding, made a big payment on all of his debt, and we just tackled it together from there. Wow, very cool, very cool. So you're dating and she starts talking to you about this this negative equity thing is not cool. I kind of like you but that ain't cool. What were you thinking? I was just being bluntly honest with her. This is my situation. This is where I come from and

this is where I'm going. Okay. I just have a really small shovel and I'm making headway. I'm getting out. So when you're dating as adults with kids, there's not really the time to waste time like you do when you're younger. And we got right to the point with a lot of our questions and didn't really lie or cover anything up. It was like, how do you feel about this? How do you feel about that?

Okay, we're a mutual connection here. And finances was a big part of that from early on. I bet, I bet, with what you had been through, for sure. And you weren't going back. Yeah, I don't blame you. That's good, very good you guys, I like that story. I'm curious to know how you accounted for an additional $100,000 in income during this time,

because this is really relevant to a lot of people who are feeling like, okay, can we do this? You all got out of this thing quick well how'd you get the 100k increase I got a bonus I got a promotion my bonus went up significantly as well yeah my company went through a reorganization and they required that we get our grant equity paid out in a small portion of it as they were getting, going through that. So right after we got married

and we made this first payment on his debt, boom, we got another windfall payout that we weren't expecting or asking for. So money just kept falling in our laps for no real reason. Wow, there's a reason it's called blessings. Yeah, God's math. It's funny how it works out. It doesn't make sense. Wow, good for y'all.

Good for y'all. I read a thing this morning, coincidences when God's trying to stay invisible. Or stay anonymous, yeah. Good for y'all, well done. Very well done, I'm proud of you. How's it feel to be completely free? Amazing is incredible. We were talking to the uber driver on the way here and he'd like he couldn't believe it

But he he was very curious like where you don't understand it until you feel it or hear it From someone else. So, yeah, hopefully we sparked some seeds of change there, too I'll guarantee you did with him and all the people watching today, too Great story. I'm so proud of y'all. What do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is? The budget it's a big one and and being very intentional and on the same page with it that we I mean We laugh because we before the in the paychecks were even fully in our account while they were still pending, we had already moved money towards the debt, made payments on it.

Like, let's not even stop and think about it. We're being very intentional, the money is going here, we already made a plan, we just have to execute it before we get the chance to, oh, well we could do this other thing with it. No, just go ahead and do the plan. Very cool, very cool. What do y'all do for a living?

I'm a nurse and a director of patient services at a digital healthcare company. Business intelligence, a data nerd. Yeah, love it, love it. Just recruited him to our company too. Love it, well congratulations you two, we're very, very proud of you. Well done. All right. It's Trent and Becca Orlando, Florida, 200 or 500.

I did it again. $535,000 paid off house and everything in 18 months. Quite a story. 245 to 345 income. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream three too one is how it's done i love it

very cool you know get many uh... I love it. Very cool. You know, I don't get many alimony lump sum payoffs, but that is a freedom, I'm telling you. That's the number of times I've sat down coaching someone and they've got ongoing alimony and ongoing child support and it's stuck in that budget. It's very difficult. This is a, so a lump sum was a great negotiation, a good payout and selling off the other house the two of them combining everything with a

Laser focus. Yeah, you can see it. You can hear that that was a lot of pain and suffering In a good way in other words like when you're working out in the gym is painful And there's some suffering but on the other side of it a real victory And I think you can see it on them, and you could hear it in that scream. So congratulations to a very intentional couple. They got a new lease on life. That's exciting to watch. Got a little test for you. As of this moment, it appears that the Trump administration has

come to agreement with China on tariffs and as of this moment the stock market is shooting through the roof. Huge rebound in the last two days. Now y'all all remember that we were all gonna die about a month ago, that the world was coming to an end, that Trump's tariffs negotiations and all that were going to ruin America and that the stock market, you were gonna lose all your retirement and the stock market was crashing. We were all gonna die. Don't you remember the news? It was just a month ago. Here's the test for you. While you're surfing around today and in the next 24-48 hours, see if you find one positive news story about it going up. Because it's about back where it was at the first year now, or about even from the first year.

See if you find one story about all the losses have been completely recovered from January 1. You won't find one. Because these people are, they really don't report the news, they're just in fear porn business. They just want you addicted to fear porn. And so if the tornado isn't going to kill you, you're going to lose all your retirement or there's going to be a hurricane or an earthquake or all of the immigrants are going to kill you, or somebody's going to kill you, something's going to kill you, you're going to die. That's all they do over and over and over and over again.

Find me one story where they report with glee on their face as much as they did with glee on their face when it was going down that the market has fully recovered as of today. You won't find it. I've been doing this for 30 plus years. After the terrorists hit the towers in New York City, the stock market was closed the first day because Wall Street is right there, literally, physically there. Wall Street, it's a street called Wall Street, literally. It's right below the towers. So they're cleaning up to be able to get back to work and they didn't want the markets to reopen in a panic. and the stock market dove when it did

reopen on the basis of America is under attack and the world's coming to an end and we're all going to lose all our retirement and the terrorist attacks are going to cause us to lose all wealth built not a single report when 54 days later it fully recovered. Not one news outlet reported that America's economy is so vibrant, so strong that 54 days after the worst attack in history other than possibly Pearl Harbor on our soil that the stock market dove and fully recovered in 54 days, not one. So you just need, what this gives you is perspective of how things really work in the news business, okay? And a lot of these guys are friends of mine. We do a lot of stuff with Fox.

We do stuff on, Ken was on CNN. I mean, different people, or George was, or somebody was the other day. We work with all of them from time to time. But I gotta tell you, it's the business they're in. If it bleeds it leads and you know I'm telling you all the time quit buying and selling your stock just get in your mutual funds to stay in and ride this is how people build wealth but instead we

get all freaked out with the fear porn of watching TV watching TV news or hitting websites even worse because they're definitely clickbait headlines about, they try to trigger your emotion. But you're not gonna find a report. If you do, it's one in a bazillion. Because I always look just for fun of it because I don't generally scan the current events pages. They drive me nuts anyway

because I know the people writing a lot of them. And the the but the you know yeah I'll go look but I'll be surprised if I find a single one anywhere but I mean front page headlines were that you're losing everything yeah that's right and I think we while we're on this issue we have to make sure that we understand there's a difference between the economy and what we're seeing on Wall Street that's a speculative. People are scared pulling their money out one day, then the next day, and that is very different than the health of the American economy. Exactly. What's happening on Wall Street is not the same. Make sure you understand the difference.

Well, I mean, in the stock market in general, you can just remember it's this. In a given week, it's a four-year-old having a temper tantrum. Yeah. Because everything's too good or too bad. One of the things. It's always a drama queen in a given week. In a given decade, if you look over a decade, the stock market's a wise old woman. That's right.

She's very smart, because she does gauge what's going on. But in a given week, it's just a four year old having a temper tantrum in the cereal aisle, because the fruit loops aren't right there. That's right. That's all it is. It's just, whee whee whee whee whee whee whee. Bunch of drama queens loops aren't right there. That's right. That's all it is. It's just way, way, way, way, way, way, bunch of drama queens, man. All right. That's right. Lisa's in Tampa. Hey,

Lisa, what's up? Hey guys. Um, so I have a, a mix of a financial and personal question. Okay. I am recently engaged. Um, my fiance and I have been together a total of three years. We're going to have a blended family, four kids all together, one from my previous marriage, three from his previous relationship. We're older, we had full separate lives,

and now we're attempting to kind of combine them and blend them. And everything's pretty good except the financial differences that we have and how he manages his finances, how I manage mine. We also have a large income gap and so my question ultimately is, is it best for us to go a kind of more non-traditional route and kind of keep separate lives because we kind of

need to because it's so complicated or do I try to, for lack of a better word, force him to develop better financial habits? How old are you two? We're in our 40s. We both have cold, osteoporosis. You're going to burn a lot of calories either way, aren't you? You said we're what? You're going to burn a lot of calories either way. I'm hoping not. I'm hoping that you know it can all be. You're gonna burn a lot of calories either way because either you guys are going to do

the strain, the hard choices of getting on the same page or you're gonna underperform. Because all the data that we have shows that couples that work together are those that win with money. 80% of the millionaires that we have shows that couples that work together are those that win with money. 80% of the millionaires that we interviewed were married and 80% of them claimed one of the reasons they were able to build wealth was they were working together with a spouse not in spite of a spouse. Mm-hmm. It's very clear data. Very clear. So when you say working together right because the nuance that I'm struggling with is he's an entrepreneur, small business owner, you know, he's in that phase of developing his business so the business hasn't taken

off yet and so... How long has he been developing the business? About 10 years. He's not in the phase of developing the business. He doesn't have a business. He has a hobby. It doesn't take 10 years to develop a the business. He doesn't have a business. He has a hobby. It doesn't take 10 years to develop a small business. It takes 10 months. I mean, the business is there. It just hasn't taken off to the level that he would like.

What does he make? What costs his income? About 50. Yeah. Okay. And you make 200, right? I make 300. Okay. What do you do? I'm an accountant. Okay. All right. What's your job? And you make 200, right? I make 300, yeah. 300. Okay, what do you do? I'm an accountant.

Okay, alright. What's his business? Didn't you already knew what I said earlier there? Unless you do public accounting? Yeah. Okay, you know businesses don't take 10 years to take off then. Yeah. If you know your stuff.

Okay. Yeah. It's just not true. So why is he underperforming? Does he not work much? No, he works a lot. And that's the thing. Like he's a hard worker, dedicated. I think it's just, you know, just partnerships gone wrong. And what kind of business is he in? It's like a production company, like putting on productions and, you know yeah it's like that so I mean the nuance that the main nuance that is he good at what he

does but not good at running a business potentially potentially I think that's that happen accidental entrepreneurs happen a lot yeah and we find that with Entrez leadership a lot there's that's not a sin it's just in recognition so he needs to either learn how to run a business, not just learn how to do how to production. Or he needs a different career. Because he's got a woman he needs to keep. And underperforming is not, no,

you don't need to try to go to non-traditional, we're gonna hold our nose and close our eyes and put our hands over our ears and go, la la la la la, and act like this isn't happening. This is happening. Y'all deal with what's happening. Deal with what's in front of you. You can build a beautiful, wonderful life

on the basis of what you've told me, but not by being in denial. Either one of you, for that matter. The awkwardness of you making six times what he makes needs to be talked about with a pre-marriage counselor. You need to talk about his career and does he need to work on the business or does he need to go to work for somebody? I bet you could make a hundred working for somebody else in the production world in freaking Orlando. Is that where she was? No, Tampa. Okay. Yeah, still. Still could. So let's pick up the book, E-Myth by Gerber, about working on your business, not just in your business. For him, I think he's got great potential, but no, I'm not going to act like this isn't happening.

from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. Ken Coleman number one best-selling author host of front row seat a brand new hit on the Ramsey networks he's my co-host today. Open phones at triple 8 8 2 5 5 2 2. Wade is in Panama City, Florida. Hi, Wade, how are you? Hey guys, how's it going? Better than I deserve. What's up? Well, so thanks for taking my call. My wife and I are on Baby Steps 4, 5 and 6 and we're

planning on selling our current home and buying a new one this fall. The issue is that my mother-in-law just got her real estate license and my wife wants her to be our realtor. I'm not comfortable with that because she's brand new with no experience selling homes and I feel like this is too big of a transaction to mix family with business but my wife is afraid it will cause a rift with her mom if we don't use her. I'd like your advice on how to navigate this wisely and lovingly both financially and relationally. Wow, you're screwed.

So true. This is a Hail Mary right here. I have no idea, man. That's an absolute lose-lose scenario. Oh, man. Did your wife already kind of hint or go so far as to promise that you guys would use the mother-in-law? No, we haven't talked to her about it yet. We're sure come to terms together. Yes, I'm sure we're trying to come to terms Together before we even start talk about what a great very healthy marriage. Thank you. That's good Thank that's the only shot you've got at this working and your wife's on the same page with you She doesn't want to.

No, no, she wants to use the mother. Yep. She wants to. Oh, okay. All right. Yeah. But she wants to use it cause she doesn't want conflict, not cause she thinks she's the best realtor. Yes, I think so. That would be my guess. That would be, that'd be logical. I mean, I mean, I don't think your wife thinks her mother is the best real estate agent out there. She just got her license. Your wife's not unintelligent. I mean, I don't think your wife thinks your her mother is the best real estate agent out there She just got her license. Your wife's not unintelligent. I mean, so it must be because she wants to avoid conflict

Mm-hmm, and and she knows her mother is a travel agent for guilt trips potentially Okay, is she have a good broker above her like is she with a good real estate agency So she just got on with a local real estate agency and she's a property manager, just doing rental houses for a couple houses, I think. But she was a part of a team and she no longer is. The team leader left the company, but she hasn't tried to be on a different team so far. Is it a legit, local, are they successful or have you never heard of them?

I'd never heard of them before, but I believe they are legit, yeah. Okay. Well, I mean, Ken sniffing around the edge is something that might work if you tried to talk to her about involving a co-listing with a stud in the office that knows her stuff. That might at least get you proper thing, but her listing it by herself is, it's an either or. Neither one of these choices are good.

She's either going to be angry because, um, yeah, I don't know, man. I, um, I don't think there's a magic wand here. Um, I, I, I number one, I would do what you're doing is it don't do anything until you and your wife are in solid agreement. And when Sharon and I have had this, something this sensitive and dude, this is very sensitive. We have a tendency to write it out when we go, okay, we're not doing this and here's the steps we're going to take or we are doing this and here's the steps we're going to take.

Okay. To where, because what happens is it's so emotional, especially for your wife because it's your mom, that if you don't write it down, I forget what I said, and Sharon does too. And then you get three steps down into what you thought you were doing, and you go, ah, that isn't, oh yeah it is, is what we said, oh no it's not, yeah it is. And we get into that who shot thing.

And so we'll write it down and just say, okay, here's our plan of action. I can, I can hold my nose and agree to the painful parts of this. If we're going to go this route. Um, so an example of that might be, okay, we can go with your mom, but only if she involves someone inside the office that's also on the listing that is a high producer. Okay. Okay.

And only if we try this for 90 days and if after 90 days we're not getting good results, we agree to change agents. Okay. That would be a way, that would be a compromise you could do, okay? Right. If you went the other way, if you went the other

way, you'd have to just say, okay, if we're not going to use her, then who's going to talk to her how are we going to do this and what are we going to try you know who else can we involve is is your wife's dad are they still married no okay no they're divorced okay is there a just drawing I'm just I'm just pulling things out of the air here. Do, does your mother-in-law and you guys happen to go to the same church? No, she doesn't go to church with us.

Okay, okay. Cause I would like to involve a pastor, if I was gonna tell her now. If I was gonna tell her now. And let someone, let someone, you know, throw cold water on all the emotions. In other words, a mediator, if you will. Um, that's what I was looking for there. Um, because this is not going

to go well, if you tell her now, I mean, I can, I just cannot imagine a scenario where she goes, Oh, I completely understand. I doubt it. I doubt it. That's right. I I'll step in and and say I like where Dave's going here. And the reason I was asking all those questions, Dave's right, is if she's with a reputable firm, they stand to win if she sells the house. And if she has some mentorship on this deal.

And I think if she won't do that, that gives me an out. I'll tell her no. I agree. I think that creates a thing for your wife. Cause your wife's gotta be the one on this, by the way. Your wife's also got to agree to this that if we do 90 days and mom doesn't sell it She's got to be the one that fires her mom and mom's got to know up front We're gonna try 90 days all of work. You know, I would sit down after after we get the initial Umph out of the way

I would sit down the three of you and and you can sit there and you can talk as much or as little at that point Normally your wife needs to carry this because it's her mom But the but I would just say listen I want everybody to be in agreement here because I don't want us to lose a relationship over a house House deal it's not even a house. It's our house. It's not your house. Yeah over over six percent commission I don't want us to lose a relationship. A 3% commission, because you're going to be splitting it with somebody, for God's sake. I don't want us to lose a relationship over that. So we're going to be in agreement that the other mentor

is going to be helpful and we're going to get the house sold in 90 days. And if not, you're going to be in agreement, mom, that you're not going to be upset with us because we're going to try someone else at that point Well this we don't really want to do this The only reason we would do this is to try to help you get started in the business and because you're here But you're not entitled to this And I'm gonna set the table where the exit ramp is clear and and mom if you can't agree that we're gonna change Agents in 90 days and mom if you can't agree that the other gonna change agents in 90 days, and mom, if you can't agree that the other person's gonna be involved to help you in this, then we're not gonna be able to go forward because we would not list our home with a new agent in

any circumstances otherwise. We wouldn't even be considering this if it wasn't you. Exactly. And I would say all of that out loud. And if you get a negative reaction where she bows up and acts entitled anywhere in that, I'm going to pull the plug on her and let her be mad because you're not dealing with a reasonable human then. You're dealing with somebody that's entitled. And yeah, yeah, and there's drama in the real estate business all the time. It's just part

of that deal. Wow, dude That's a tightrope right there thin ice brother Thin ice and you call me with it. This is the Ramsey show Cade is with us in Fort Wayne, Indiana. Hi Cade. How are you? Hey guys. Thanks for taking my call. Sure, what's up? So my question is about full life, which I know you love Dave. My dad set up a policy for me about 15 years ago, so I guess my question is does that make my situation unique or should I surrender it? Are you healthy? Can you get life

insurance? Yeah, I do have term life for my wife and my kid right now. Then why do you need it? Why do I need the whole life? Yeah. Uh, right now my only excuse is because my dad set it up. Bad idea. I need it. Yeah. It's not even an excuse. It's just a reason. I do have his blessing to surrender it. Good, surrender it. Okay, done deal then. The little bit of cash value that's in there, probably not much, dies with you. It's an expensive policy if you keep it per

thousand because it's a tiny little policy what 15,000 or something what is it the death benefit right now is 70,000 with a surrender of 6,500 okay yeah so you got 6,500 in your pocket and your term life insurance is way cheaper than it have you noticed yeah yeah very much so buy life insurance for life insurance

purposes do your investing and investments and you will always end up Have you noticed? Yeah, yeah, very much. So buy life insurance for life insurance purposes, do your investing in investments, and you will always end up with more money. Don't do investing inside of life insurance ever for any reason, it's a horrible way to do that. And guys, let's just recap, Ken, why that is, because I don't feel like I've talked about it in a while, y'all may have when I wasn't here.

But basically, if you bought a five hundred thousand dollar policy three hundred thousand dollar policy whole life life insurance is twenty times more expensive meaning it would be a hundred dollars a month if you paid five dollars a month you get the same amount of term insurance the extra ninety five dollars that you are paying for cash value insurance whole life universal life variable life goes into a savings program that's called cash value buildup that's his sixty five

hundred dollar surrender that he was getting there and it goes to cash value buildup. And so you've got a savings account built into your life insurance purchase. That concept in and of itself is not bad until you learn the rules of the savings account. First rule is that the first three years that you own a whole life policy, 100% of your investment per purchase goes to commissions. So your $95 an hour example, we would call it $1,200 a year roughly, your cash value buildup, your savings buildup is zero for three years. After three years, only after three years, do you see it start to build up. Then once it does start to build up,

the second problem is it's a lousy rate of return. Typical whole life life insurance policy, all the studies tell us pays 1.2% average rate of return. The typical universal life policy pays 3.7%. The typical variable life, because it's invested in mutual funds that should be paying 12 or 14, actually pays about 7 percent. The rest of it goes to fees. So,

you have a bank account with a life insurance company that the first three years you put money in it, the balance is zero. After that it makes 1.2 percent. So far it sucks pretty bad. Then, you pay on it for 20 years. In this guy's case for many many years, he paid on a $70,000 policy on a child, which is the worst rip-off of all. And finally the cash value in his case, we'll use this as an example, is $6,500. And he has a $70,000 death benefit. Now you have paid at 1.2% and zeros for the first three years

all this money into this savings account called cash value and when you die the cash value that they pay out to you from that savings account is zero. They pay the face amount. So you bought a life insurance policy for $70,000. It should have paid $70,000 and you had a savings account policy for $70,000. It should have paid $70,000 and you had a savings account putting $95 a month in it. It should have been up to $6,500. Finally, they should have paid you the death benefit of $70,000, the insurance you bought, plus give you your savings account, right? No, you just get the death benefit. So if he dies,

he gets $70,000. Oh, he doesn't. His wife does. $70,000 death benefit. The $6,500 that they paid 95% extra per month for 15 years finally gets to $6,500 and if he dies, when he dies, they keep it. So you have a savings account. I'm going to open up a bank today and Dave's Bank and see if any of you people would ever buy this. Every deposit you make for the first three years zero balance. I keep it all. And then I'm gonna pay you 1.2 percent and then when you die I keep your money. Who the crap would save money on that? Nobody. But the whole life insurance people have been selling this

bogus crap for decades and that's why the buildings in the skylines are banks and life insurance companies. That's how they built those towers with your money. Santa Claus ain't over there baby. It was you getting screwed and so it is the payday lender of the middle class. The dirty little secret of the financial world. Consequently I've been doing this show for 30 years. Guess who hates me? Whole Life Life Insurance Salesman. All of them. They think I'm the devil. They have pictures of me with dart boards,

on their dart boards, in their offices where they do sales. Which I call a wonderful blessing because that means I'm taking up for the consumer my job is to let you guys know how things work I don't sell life insurance I don't care what you buy I endorse Zander life insurance because they sell term insurance at the best possible price and I have for 30 years but that's it guys that's the whole stinking deal so stay away from that crap it guys, that's the whole stinking deal. So stay away

from that crap. It's horrible product. Let me tell you the other thing. No one in the last 30 years since I started this show, no one in the financial world believes in this stuff or sells it except whole life people. Financial planners who are legitimate investment brokers will put you into a legitimate investment, help you buy a mutual fund and not say, oh you need to have a life insurance policy that builds up cash value so I can make,

oh by the way the commissions on whole life are 10x of what they are for selling term. Well my company sells term but they don't believe in it. No that's right they don't pay them to sell it, that's why. The commissions are for selling term well my company sells term, but they don't believe in it. No, that's right They don't they don't pay them to sell it. That's why the commission's are horrible for term insurance You got to sell a lot of it Compared to what you make on a whole life policy So I just hadn't unpacked that in a while felt like it probably needed to piss those people off today

I hadn't done well. That's actually a really good simple training of the whole product because the question is What is the sales technique? What's the diff? They're not selling it that way. So how are they selling? They're selling it is permanent insurance instead of temporary. Okay, they love that word. The other thing they say Oh, you wouldn't want to rent your whole life You want to buy and if you buy you get equity? So you get equity build up in this cash value. But when you buy they fail to mention it's 20 times more expensive and you really are renting because we're going to keep your money when you die.

They don't mention that part of it but that's it's a you know you don't want to be a renter. Term life insurance is temporary. If you quit paying it you won't have any insurance. Well so is your freaking car insurance. If you quit paying your car insurance won't have any insurance. Well so is your freaking car insurance. If you quit paying your car insurance, they quit giving you car insurance. That's how it works. If you quit paying your life insurance, they quit giving you life insurance. As long as you're driving a car, there's a probability of an accident. As long as you're walking around sucking air, there's a probability you're going to die.

So it takes a mathematical formula to cover those things with insurance. So as long as there's a probability of a risk of a thing happening, the insurance is going to have a bill associated with it and it doesn't go away. Well I've already got mine paid up. Okay if you're still breathing there's still a risk that they're going to have to pay this out. So where do you think they got their money? Oh paid up means prepaid. You paid it all in advance so you got screwed faster. That's all that was. You can prepay your term insurance too if you want. Just go ahead and give them all the money for the next 10 years right now.

And then you can say well I prepaid it. I mean, it's paid up and it paid up. It's paid up. It's not paid up. Come on people, run the math. This is not rocket surgery. This is the Ramsey Show. Buying or selling your home is a big deal. And between clickbait headlines and confusing data, it's tough to know what's actually

going on out there in the housing market. Well, we're here to make the latest trends easy to understand. Median home prices went up slightly last month. Four hundred and thirty thousand is about the median home price. More homes are on the market, nearly a right now the highest since 2019 but in many areas is still not enough to meet buyer demand and the average 15-year fixed rate loan is now 5.9% last month still under 6. If you're financially ready a small rate increase shouldn't hold you back from buying the home you love. You're out of debt, you have your emergency fund, you

have a good down payment, you want to learn more about housing market trends, get the free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence. You can do it at our website for free. Ramsesolutions.com slash market or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on podcast or YouTube. Jennifer is in Washington DC. Hi Jennifer, welcome to the show. Hi Dave and Ken, thanks for taking my call. My son is 22 and is graduating college this month, debt-free with no student loans, thanks to many years of savings and sacrifice by my husband and myself. Recently he was sick and went to urgent care instead of his on-campus doctor. We told him we have a high deductible medical plan

and urgent care is costly. Well, it ended up being $700 for the sick visit. So we were nice to pay $500 for the bill even though it came to his name. And I asked him to pay the remaining $200 as a step towards financial responsibility. And he refuses to pay the remaining $200 as a step towards financial responsibility. Um, and he refuses to pay it. Why?

Um, so why wanted to get your advice. Why does he refuse to pay it? Uh, he states that it's, you know, it has to do with this health and he's under our medical plan. So he feels that his mom and dad should pay it. Okay. our medical plan so he feels that his mom and dad should pay it. Okay, so is he finished with school? He's graduating this month in May, yes. And he will have an internship this summer.

We're going to let him live at home rent-free but I feel no I'm not not this entitled little twerp he doesn't get to live there rent-free if he doesn't pay a bill because it's your responsibility when it's not no way yeah there's consequences to being a but way that we've paid for his college tuition for four years. I heard that. I said there's consequences for being a but. That's why I'm calling you to get...

That's what I would tell you. I want to hear what you're going to say. I'll just say you're not going move in in here until you pay that bill I'll let you live here rent-free But I'm letting you live here rent-free to get a good start Not for being an entitled brat and when you bow up and act like I owe you something after all this other stuff I've done for you. I don't know you nothing Not financially all I will use a hard time New you're not gonna do that, but that's how I would do it. You're too sweet.

What do you... You want me to have a little magic wand to spring fairy dust on his head and make him grow character. You're gonna have to bump him on the head, girl. Yeah, I'm just curious. And I'm not, this isn't a setup question. I really want to know, what did you think that Dave and I were going to say? What were you looking for? I mean, in all honesty, what were you looking for? Because you had a gut reaction. And then you said, well, I'm going to call and get their advice. What are you looking for? I'm looking for because I want my son to hear this straight from Dave Ramsey's and your mouth that his parents are not, you know,

doing this to be mean and... Are you gonna play this for him? Yes, I am. Oh, okay, well that changes everything for me. I'll just tell you, dude, you need a reality check. You ought to be apologizing to your parents and groveling all over yourself and gratitude for all they've done for you. You get free college and a free place to live and you're acting like a punk over 200 bucks? Pay the 200 bucks and if I were your mom, I wouldn't even have called. I just told you, you're on your own on this.

You figure it out. It's in your name, big shot. I don't like it at all. I don't like his attitude. I think it's absolutely ridiculous. If my son said it to me, I'd laugh and be legitimately entertained by that response. And he would know that this wasn't fake laughter,

this is legitimate, like, did you just say that to me? You are so confused, kid. That's, you know, confused individual. That's hysterical to me. So anyway, yeah, there you go. I don't know if he's gonna listen to us. I don't think he is, but you're gonna have to deal with it, Mom.

So they paid the bill, they furnished medical care. They picked up 500 of the 700. After he went to a place they told him not to go, which would have been free. Exhibit A. And then he bows up and acts entitled and says, you're supposed to furnish this to me. It's my right.

Yeah. Healthcare is a human right. Well, I would have said, you make a great point that we cover your healthcare, but we told you where to go. You know what, I think he's been in a college with communist professors. It might be, it might be. Well I think he's just gotten away and he's just forgotten the chain of command and all that comes with the chain of command.

It's just, it's absurd. I wouldn't have paid the 500. I'd have said, you got me a $700 bill, you're coming to me with a bill that's in your name, number one, Sparky. Number two, you went to a place that I told you not to. You've got a $700 problem is what you've got. And it's not mom and I's problem.

Yeah, yeah. If you're big enough to get yourself in this mess, you're big enough to get yourself out. You carried yourself to that place. Yeah. You carry yourself down to work and get you a job. I promise you. And by the way, don't show up at my house this summer waiting for free rent. If you're going to stare me down, then let's stare each other down. Yeah. Yeah. Don't come to a gunfight carrying a knife. Yeah, it's like that scene in Indiana Jones where that guy goes, ah, and he's yelling

and screaming and waving the knife, and Indy pulls out a gun and just drops him in the street. What are we doing here? Oh my gosh, that's so cute. She called. That's so cute. Mom, you asked for it, so. Now we're the get off my lawn guys, but.

That's us. Hey, I'm a boomer and you're a wannabe boomer. I'd prefer that if someone does this. You were actually born, you were born in the wrong generation, Coleman. I know. You're a gr I'm a boomer and you're a wannabe boomer. I'd prefer that if someone actually born it, you were born in the wrong generation Coleman. I know. You're a grouchy old boomer. I'll tell you what I'd love is that when a parent does this is actually put the kid on the line. I'll

talk directly to him, I'll have to ask him about 37 questions before I ever make a statement. I'd have him in a pretzel. It's the most nonsensical thing I've ever heard of, is a kid saying that kind of thing. But they do it all the time, it's part of being young. So isn't it our, let me throw it to you, isn't it our job in that moment he's got to learn and then the parents got to help him learn by being the bad guys here?

Oh yeah. I don't think she wants to be the bad guy. Well, it's my spiritual gift. Among many others. I think one of the things that we get asked more than anything else is how do I build wealth and not spoil my kids? We were talking about this, Dr. John Delaney and I were on tour last week and we were in several cities and we did Q&A in Kansas City and Phoenix and in Fort Worth and great Q&A, great

audiences everywhere, we had sellouts everywhere, thank you guys for showing up. And one of the things people want to know about is how to raise great kids in this environment and one of the things that I've taught for years with our kids and now our grandkids is you start with gratitude and everything when you're parenting is a muscle that must be built. So gratitude starts with learning to say please and thank you. Manners is gratitude. Gratitude is as soon as you're able to safely do it, to carry your dishes to the dishwasher

and then look up at heaven and say thank you Lord that there is a dishwasher and I'm not yet. Okay, that's gratitude. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Gratitude leads to and helps you as it grows, as it matures inside of a child, a grateful child becomes a humble child. And humble is not humiliated and it's not lacking in confidence. Humble is I'm other centered instead of self-centered. That's all it is. Humble is I don't think the axis of the world runs through the top of my head. And then humility coupled with

gratitude you have a chance of creating someone to be content in this world where there is no one content and no one has peace. But you can sit in gratitude and in humility and have tremendous peace and just just have fun and laugh about all this stuff. And if you've done all of that, then they don't 22 years old, they don't bring you a bill. That doesn't even come up then. But you did that when they were four and eight. And every day, just like every day you brush your teeth, please and thank you. Yes, you will respect your mother and you will clean the dishes into the dishwasher. No, I don't care if you like it. It's your way of saying thank you.

Because we let you live, literally. We can make another one that looks just like you. Because we let you live, literally. We can make another one that looks just like you. Our scripture of the day, Proverbs 16, 16. How much better to get wisdom than gold, to get insight rather than silver? Ronald Reagan says, as I have often said, governments don't produce economic growth. People do. Amen. God love the Gipper. Yep. Nobody, nobody at the government created anything except a line to stand in and then get substandard service.

Sorry for your government employees. Alright, Dylan is with us in San Antonio. Hi, Dylan. How are you? How's it going, sir? How are y'all doing? Better than we deserve man, how can we help? So I got myself in a little bit of a pickle and I tried to fix a bad decision with a bad

decision. So, with that being said, I have a car that I owe about $34,000 on that is worth about 23 private sale. So my question here is, does it make more sense to roll that 10 to 11 negative equity into a car worth about 10 to decrease that debt as a whole or should I save up that negative equity clear the car and buy a five or $6,000 cash card down the road. This is my last debt for baby step two. Good for you. How much have you paid off so far?

$8,000 the car prior. How long have you paid? How long did it take you to pay off $8,000? Uh, two years at this point. Good Lord. What do you make? Uh, two years at this point. Good Lord, what do you make? Sixty-five thousand. Are you single? I didn't really have a spark under...

Yes sir. Oh, you didn't have a spark. Okay, so when did you get a spark? When did you get serious? Well, I had a daughter three months ago and trying to show her later on in life that that is not the correct way to go about this. And so I get better to start now than later. So how much does your wife make?

So I'm not currently married. I guess it's a story for another day, but I'm scared to purchase a ring being that I don't have the money for a ring at the moment. So I'm trying to go into the marriage debt free. Luckily, she doesn't have any debt, but we do have this car. What does she make? You have a baby. She's a stay at home mom.

So you're living together? Yes, sir. Okay. So I don't think you need a ring, dude. So you're living together? Yes sir. Okay, so I don't think you need a ring dude. Like you're already acting like you're married. You just need to run over at the Justice Peace and get married. Tada! Yes sir.

I mean when you got a baby you don't get a ring. You got a baby. You get a ring later. Okay? It's not like we have big white wedding or something here I mean come on y'all are already already everything's already going down right so just go get married I mean it's not it's not like it's changing it's not like you're you know 21 years old just

graduated from college not living together and you go talk to her dad or something that's not that we're way past that this ships already sailed man right yes sir absolutely okay cool well just go get married and and then she's a full-time stay-at-home mom and now you're $65,000 a year household income single household income and how old's the baby?

Three months. That's awesome man that's the best thing I'm on the planet as babies I just tell you so and the fact that you want to be a good dad, I just love you, man. I think that's good. So, be a good dad, marry your mom by the weekend. Okay? Yes, sir. Like right now. Absolutely. And then let's go get life. Let's go grab life. Okay, what are we going to do? Both of us go. I mean, anything she can do to make an extra income while she's got the little baby at home, little side jobs or stuff, work at home stuff while the baby's napping and all that stuff. Freelancing. What did she used to do before she had a baby?

Hospice care, at home hospice care. Okay, cool. A little difficult to do that with a baby. Okay, but Anything, does she have any kind of nursing background? Yes, she has a CNA. Great! Very, very marketable. Telehealth right now. Telehealth, by the end of the day, she can be doing telehealth during nap time.

Okay, and add some income to your newly married situation. That's all happening by next week, okay? And then you're going to go get like three extra jobs and we're going to pay this off really fast. Because now what happened was you guys were just playing like a couple of kiddos, shacking up now we got a kiddo so now we're gonna be adults. Ha ha! Here we go! Game on! Absolutely. I like this. Yes sir. You're a good man. You're gonna be alright. How old are you? 24? Yes sir. 25 sir. Almost like I've done this before. Okay. Yeah I'm proud of you man. Good. Good. If you go do all of that and you lean in

you'll have the just stinking card paid down you go do all of that and you lean in you'll have the just stinking card paid down and then get rid of it and it becomes a side issue real quick because right now it's like front and center right between your eyes you can't see nothing but the car but I can see way past this car ten years from now when you're almost a millionaire I can see it right now awesome thank you sir yeah but you're gonna get rid of the car and you're gonna get married and you're gonna get three jobs and she's gonna get a side job working from home, tele-med right now. Right now. Get it, get it, get it, get it, get it, get it, get this mess cleaned up. And no $8,000 over 18 years, you can't do nothing that way, you gotta do it right now. And I want $10,000 by September. And get this thing gone. Get on a tight budget. I'm gonna give you Financial Peace University

and the Every Dollar Premium as my wedding gift to you. Okay? And you guys are gonna get together, get on a tight budget and get with it. Do it, do it, do it, do it. This is great, this is great. Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I think this is a three to four month deal max and you've got to start targeting it that way yeah they

get you a $5,000 car and then get you a $10,000 car and then get you a $20,000 car to pay cash for and you pay as you go along move back up in car later but for right now get rid of this crappy decisions and you know all your crappy decisions in your rear-view mirror you're 25 you got the rest of your life to be smart yeah that's great if you if you know if you if you got all the dumb stuff done by 25 you got a great life ahead of to be smart. That's great. If you got all the dumb stuff done by 25, you got a great life ahead of you, man. So you're in great shape.

This is going to be good. This is going to be cool. Yeah. And I agree. The ring is not necessary at this point. We're already playing house. Put the ring off later. It gives you something to shoot for.

I mean, you buy her a headlight when you're a millionaire. I don't care. Get her something that her friends go, how does she carry that on her arm? She must work out? I mean get get a big old rock, you know, I don't care That's great cuz I got I mean we got married with a point. Oh 0.3 2.9 point 2 9 You can't even see it. It's so small

It's in the safe now cuz Sharon wears a headlight on her hand So cuz she's put up with me for 42 years. she gets anything she wants by God, so shut up. That's right. And so, but now that, but I mean that little redneck kid that she married, he didn't have anything. Yeah. And he was stupid. And thank God she's not still married to him.

Thank God he grew up. And so there's hope for everybody, man. There's hope. If I can do it, anybody can do it. I promise you, coming from what I did and doing what I did, man man I was dumb on a rock. So a PhD in DUMB. So yeah you can do this you can do this you can be sitting here when you're 64 haven't been married 40 years just like I'm sitting here right now doing that

and so that and and you'd be sitting with grandbabies and you'll have a wonderful life ahead of you man but start doing stuff right now now's the day now's the day and you got the stuff inside ofbabies and you'll have a wonderful life ahead of you, man. But start doing stuff right now. Now's the day, now's the day. And you got the stuff inside of you because you're the kind of, a man that calls and asks that question for that kind of a reason gives me excitement because that's character in there.

Yeah, I thought his answer immediately was, well, three months ago I had a child. And that's the wake up call that a lot of people need. And so now- Married or not. That's right right it does wake you up and and I'll tell you he can between the two of them make and knock this out really fast oh the math I'll knock it it'll go crazy really fast cuz I'll add $30,000 their income in about 20 seconds and and young man you're gonna feel so good when you don't have a $34,000 loan and when you're in charge of your money instead of your

money being in charge of you oh it's a whole new,000 loan. And when you're in charge of your money, instead of your money being in charge of you, oh, it's a whole new world. And we're gonna give you all that for free. That's our wedding gift to you. So hang on, man, we'll pick up and get you taken care of. I'm proud of you. Get her done.

Get her done. That's good stuff. Yeah. Fun times. So yeah, you can, guys out there, I mean, there's so much data out there on people who suddenly start doing something different and it changes their life.

You can just suddenly say, I'm gonna concentrate on my career. I'm gonna suddenly say, I've gotta lose a few pounds. I'm gonna suddenly say, I'm gonna start treating my spouse as nice as I treat my friends for the first time in a while, instead of being a twerp all the time, you know, you can suddenly say, you can just make these behavior and habit and character decisions and just decide you are.

That's pretty cool, y'all. You got a lot of power over your destiny. Destiny doesn't just happen to you. You got to happen to it. That puts us out of the Ramsey Show and the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.