The Ramsey Show - App - Living With My Mother-in-Law is Difficult (Hour 2)

Episode Date: December 25, 2020

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Hey guys, this is James Childs, producer of the Dave Ramsey Show. Dave and the team are out spending time with their families for Christmas, but we'll be live again soon. In the meantime, we've put together some of the best clips from the show for you to enjoy. You are listening to the best of the Dave Ramsey Show. Merry Christmas. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions and the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid off home mortgage

has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us. Our co-host on the show today, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author and host of the Ken Coleman Show, Mr. Ken Coleman himself, joins me. The phone numbers if you want to talk about your life and your money and your career. Ken talks about jobs and getting them and careers and gaining them and living your best possible income side of your life all the time. As a matter of fact, he's been on the air for a couple hours right before he walked in here, so three more hours hanging out with me today.

Open phones again. 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. I'm going to start off with Christopher in Tennessee. Hey, Christopher, how are you? Not hearing

Christopher. 3 2 Okay. Is this a reset Not hearing Christopher. Three, two. Okay. Is this a reset from the other thing? All right. I'll try Ken and see if we can get to him. Ken is in California.

Hi, Ken. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. How you doing? Great, man. How can we help? I have a question um me and my wife were we just started your program about the middle of may and we're looking we have multiple different debts we have auto loan debt student loan debt and of course mortgage that we're not considering. Now, our student loan debt, they have the confidence about a forbearance,

and we're thinking about doing forbearance to help pay down that auto loan debt first. We just wanted to know your opinion on it. It doesn't matter. It's pay me now, pay me later. Everything you don't pay on the student loan in terms of principal or interest, you'll have to pay later. And so all you're doing is just, in a sense, you're borrowing against the student loan to pay off that. Because you're paying less on the student loan that you do have to pay later. So, you know, you're dragging your feet on it so you can speed up the other one.

It doesn't matter. If you want to knock that car loan out, that's not a bad idea. But just, you know, don't ever be under the illusion that the student loan folks are doing you any favors. It's not the business that they're in. I see. Okay. Yeah. So, I mean, all forbearance means, the word means patience. I see. Okay. Yeah. And so, if you delay it delay it now you know use it to your advantage don't just delay it to kick the can down the road ken that's what people do with student loans like

they do with so many other decisions they figure if they can kick the can down the road i'll deal with it later problem is it gets bigger it's like a dead gum splinter in your hand yeah so in this situation it's okay if he puts all of his effort. It becomes this is our snowball, and we're just going to put everything towards this. Sometimes people go buy crap then. That's right. So you have to be completely disciplined here. Yeah. It's like you are your death on your dead snowball.

I mean, you're game on. Yeah. Gazelle intense, focused, hitting it hard, all that kind of stuff. And if you're doing all of that, then, yeah, you can use the extra money to go either direction, but you're still going to end up paying it. So all it does is it slows down the speed of the one thing if you have a bigger payment on the actual student loan. And speak to the details. I've heard this from you before.

You know, forbearance sounds like, oh, what a break, what a relief, but if you don't look at the fine details, you could get yourself in a really sticky situation where maybe it's actually, there's lots of levels to this to where it's not true forbearance if it's going to be a penalty later on. Yeah. Well, back during COVID, you know, people were offered forbearance on their mortgage. And what that meant was don't pay a couple of payments. And people were like, I don't have to pay a payment. That's awesome.

It's like, no, no, it's coming. It's coming in September, and you're going to have to pay them all and catch them all up, or they're going to do this thing called foreclosure that goes right after forbearance. So, yes, yeah, bad plan. So, no, you don't kick the can down the road unless you have to or unless you're just really dialed in and you're going to use this to your advantage. But I would not use the word forbearance in most cases to purposefully get behind. It's how to get caught up is what it really means.

That's what the purpose of it is. When you do a forbearance on a mortgage in a traditional situation, that means you're like four payments behind. And they agree to a payment and a half for eight months. Eight halves is the four holes catches you up in addition to your regular payment. That's a forbearance, a catch-up plan. And I'm not talking about like mayonnaise. I'm talking about catching up, right? So, you know, that's what you're looking for.

And that's what the word really means. And so just beware because anytime somebody starts talking about you skipping payments or anything else they gonna get them money that's what you need to remember again open phones at 888-825-5225 jack is with us jack's in oregon what's up jack hey guys i've got a question for you that will seem ridiculous to other listeners, but it's real to me. I'm 37. My wife and I just entered Baby Step 7. Yay! Wow.

Yes. You have a paid-for house. You're 100% debt-free. You're rocking retirement, and you're 37. You're a rock star, man. Yeah, and it is exciting, and our net worth is just north of a million dollars, so we're feeling great. So good. But here's the struggle we face now.

You know, mathematically, with our income and with the savings, this will turn easily into several million by the time it's time to retire. Ten or twenty. I struggle with a sense of purpose now. It almost feels like I'm working for nothing. I don't know what to do. I've got more money than I could possibly use. When you're working on paying off a house, that's a motivator. Everything's gone, right?

So now writing checks for charity, it doesn't always satisfy me. It's just a check. I don't see the end result. Leaving a ton of money to my kids it doesn't feel satisfying i feel like that just puts them in the same problem i'm facing right now uh we don't spend a ton that doesn't satisfy me to spend so i i that's just awesome i struggle when i so you have discovered that money is not the answer to happiness yeah that's awesome. Very cool. Good for you. So now what?

Well, I'm going to tell you, Jack, the reason you feel the way you feel is because you're realizing that we were created to work. Genesis chapter 2 is where we first realized this, that we don't work to live. We live to work. In other words, let me say it a different way. We were created to contribute. And what you're longing for right now is some work to get up every day and to go do something that matters to you. And this is where the answer is to your future. You're 37.

Money's not an object. When people call the Ken Coleman Show and they get a little stuck, there's the age-old question that's not unique to me. And I just simply say, if money did not matter, I guaranteed you success. You could not fail. And you just get to go do something tomorrow that matters to you. That's when it breaks for people. And they begin to say, well, I want to help people.

So I'm going to give you three questions that you and your wife need to answer. And this is going to give you a lot of clues. Okay, here they are. Number one, who are the people you most want to help? Just think of those people. Now, what problem or challenge or desire do they have? And then what are the solutions to that need, that desire?

When you begin to get the answers to those questions and you match it up with what you do very well, this is what you bring to the marketplace, the skill to actually bring the solution. Dave, the answers are in there and there's multiple things they can do. That's what's exciting. And change your charitable giving to where you get your hands yeah down in the giving where you meet the people

and it'll change the it'll change the visceral reaction your gut has your spirit has to charitable generosity this is the dave ramsey show If current times have shown us anything, it's that the least expected events can and will happen, and we have to deal with it. That's why everyone who has a family counting on them needs term life insurance. For over 20 years, the only company I've recommended is Zander Insurance. Not only because they search all of the top term life plans to find you the best rates, We'll be right back. or the internet. They also have plans with super competitive rates that don't require an exam, allowing you to skip a step and get the coverage you need faster. Go to Zander.com or call 800-356-4282.

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phone text checkup to 33 789 take the five minute free coverage checkup text checkup to three three seven eight nine dr john deloney ramsey personality is my co-host today olivia is with us in orlando hi olivia how are you i'm good how are you days better than i deserve how can we help uh so i'm 23 years old and i want to stop paying rent and buy a house but i don't i also don't want to go into debt uh from buying it so I have a roommate that would help me with the mortgage but I don't want to depend on her to keep paying me and a lot of the houses I like I don't have quite enough to put 20% down uh but my parents offered to help me so I was wondering if now would be a good time to buy or I should you know with their help or if I should wait and save a little bit more. How are they going to help you?

What's that mean? So they would help me. So right now I have enough saved up. They're going to give you some money? Yeah, they would give me enough to be able to put 20% down. Not alone? Well, I would probably want to pay them back. I would probably not want you to pay them back

I don't want you to be in debt to your parents it ruins all corners of your relationship when you owe them money right yeah that's kind of I mean they've offered to give it to me but I don't want to are they control freaks are they going to hold it to me, but I don't want to. Are they control freaks? Are they going to hold it over your head that they gave you this? Yeah, that was a yes. That's a super yes.

That's right. Yeah. Okay. So, okay. How old are you? How old are you? I'm 23. How much money you make?

I make $69,000 a year. Good for you. Okay. So, in order to put 20% down, how long will it take you if you do it on your own? I'd probably have to save up maybe like another year. Okay. What's wrong with that? Nothing.

I just want to buy a house now. I mean, the interest rates are good, and I didn't know if it would be a good time to buy. I understand. I want to go to Grand Cayman, but they're not opening it. They closed it for coronavirus and just told me I can't come. Yeah. So, you know, you want a lot of things. You don't have the money.

You don't have the ability to do it. I want a new car, too. It's going to take me about a year. It'll take you about a year? That'd be nice. Yeah, but you can't go get one today because you work here, And if you get a car payment, I'm going to fire you. That's right. So there you go.

So we're in this together, Olivia. We're in it together. Yeah, make a plan for a year. Stick to it. Get that 20%. And you're going to be glad you did. You don't want to owe your parents money. It just complicates your relationship.

Listen, if you can't get a gift from them and it not be screwy god forbid you take a loan from them yeah at least a loan from a bank has rules associated to it when they're from your parents who they don't question your biscuit recipe like mom does so yeah i'm it sounded like the way you paused there was a lot in that um that came out there that you really need to just do this on your own and that's cool and there's no harm in that and you're going to feel really good about yourself a year from now because you set a goal and you uh progressively incrementally attacked it and hit it and you know buying a house at 24 versus buying a house at 23 has never kept someone from being a millionaire right oh you wasted that entire year that just

doesn't come up mathematically it just doesn't work okay so you're fine you got plenty of time you're not asking me if you should wait 15 years to buy a house you're asking me if you should wait 12 months because that way you can do it on your own and i would help me with this dave there is the interest rates have fallen through the floor. Yep. Right? Yep. And so I'm hearing this pressure of people my age that you've got to, got to, got to, got to.

All ages. Always has been. And I remember when I bought my first house in the early 2000s at 6%, and I was complaining because my buddy got a 5 and 3 quarters. And an adult with us said said y'all shut your mouth because my first house was in 78 at 12 or 15 or 18 percent 78 78 was 12 and so is it wrong thinking to think you know what they're at 2.25 they're ridiculous the other side of that fulcrum is when it goes up people will stop moving so much. The prices of houses will – there's going to be a balance there.

And if you end up buying a house in a year and it's back up to three and a quarter or four and a quarter, you're not getting hosed. Yeah. You've still won life, right? It's not – the likelihood of it moving two full percentage points in 12 months – That's catastrophic, right? Almost historical. Right. You know?

And by the way, it wasn't 12% in it was 10 i just remember okay because i passed my real estate license in september of 1978 and a month later it went from nine and three quarters to 10 for the first time ever wow and people thought it double digit mortgage rates that was it jesus is coming back uh the world is coming to an end. It's apocalyptic. Right. And they were wailing and gnashing of teeth in the real estate business. And that's it. It's all over. Inflation is killing us. And we'll never be able to buy a house again.

It proceeded from 78 to 82 to go to 18%. That's right. Under Jimmy Carter. Thank you very much. And I'm trying to sell real estate in those days in college trying to get through school and then i came out of school i'm selling houses at 14 fixed i sold 78 houses that year 22 years old and there were these brand new things that came out if you didn't want to pay 14 they had these new ARMs, Adjustable Rate Mortgages, 1983, 12%. Big difference.

And then so when it broke back down into nine, I'm on the radio by then, and I'm going, you people have no idea. Nine is amazing. It's been all the way back to 78 when it showed up that last, you know, and and now and then now people are doing it. This has always been this conversation. People have always bought houses. We could not get people out of the parking lot of this model. The parking lot was jammed in this model set in 1983 and rates were, because they were down from 18.

And there was all this pent-up demand of people that hadn't bought. And they're like, oh, God, rates are finally coming back down. The parking lot was so full on Sunday, there'd be 60, 80 people coming through the houses at one time. It was like something on a movie. Yeah. You know? And that was at 14% interest. So you're going to be okay.

That's right. You're going to be okay. That's right. You're going to be okay. So follow the plan. Do it right. The difference in two and three. Do it right. The difference in three and six. Zippy.

That is not going to change your life. What is going to change your life is making good, solid decisions, being wise, putting a 15-year fixed in place where the payment's no more than a fourth of your take-home pay, putting down a good down payment and avoiding the PMI, which is what she was talking about doing, avoiding the private mortgage insurance with a good 20% down on a Fannie Mae loan. And you've got to plan then to pay off the house. The point is, where are you going to be 10 years after this, not 40 years after this? You're not taking out a mortgage for 80 years.

You're taking it out for 10 on a 15-year schedule because you're going to pay it off because you're listening to us. So it's really because the interest rate almost becomes irrelevant. Doesn't matter. Pay it off. That's right. Because it's not over that long a period of time to where you add up and you go, it's like $600,000 in extra interest I paid.

Yeah, because you kept the mortgage 42 years, you idiot. You know, don't stay and keep paying the money. Get it paid off, which is what Olivia will do. That's exactly right. Yeah. Good for her. Her mortgage is a temporary thing. It's a passing through thing.

And that's the only reason I don't yell at people about getting a mortgage like I do a car payment or something else is that. But you're right. There's this perception. And going back to a little history lesson there is good for folks to remember that, you know, if a quarter of a percent ruins your real estate deal, you shouldn't have been in it in the first place. You should not buy that house. That's right. You already couldn't afford it. It's the old joke, you know, if you have to ask how much you can afford it, you know, that kind of crap. But it really is a little bit of that. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Thank you. you're listening to the best of the dave ramsey show we'll be back soon with more live content chris hogan ramsey personality is my co-host today here on the dave ramsey show at the beginning of this year buying your first home may have been one of your top goals.

2020 did not exactly shape out the way we all expected, did it? Turned into a dumpster fire. If your plans got sidetracked but home ownership is still the right move, you may want to talk to a real high-quality real estate agent. A lot of areas real estate is doing very well. As a matter of fact, it's playing out straight up booming. And you need somebody in your corner to help guide you so you don't get emotional and pay too much or get ripped off in some kind of overbidding situation or something like that. Go to DaveRamsey.com slash agent. Find a trusted agent, an agent that we recommend, endorsed local provider for your real estate, DaveRamsey.com slash agent.

Ethan is in Detroit. Hi, Ethan. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi. How are you doing? Great, man. How can we help? I work for an automotive maker, manufacturer.

I'm an engineer there. And one of the company perks or benefits, I guess, that they offer is an employee lease option. Right. So I can get a vehicle. It's a one-year lease. Yep. Limited miles. Yep.

With insurance included. Yep. And repairs and maintenance. Are you working there? Repairs and maintenance are included unlimited miles with insurance included. Yep. And repairs and maintenance. Are you working there? Repairs and maintenance are included. Tires are included. Everything's included. Yep.

And prior to working there, I was paying around $200 in insurance, just as an idea of that. Mm-hmm. And I'm debating, so my current payment is around $550,000, and I actually brought my wife in on the program recently. I'm debating if it's even worth it to carry that. The $550,000 is the lease on your employee deal? Yeah. Okay.

You're driving a nice car. Yeah, it is. It's a truck. Yeah, you didn't take the cheaper chicken. You got the big dog. Well, sorry. Who is this, Ford or GM? No, it's FCA Chrysler.

Oh, okay. All right. Well, I've looked at several of these. Nissan is here in our neighborhood. I've looked at the Ford one. I've looked at the GM one. I don't know the Chrysler one off the top of my head, but most of these have nothing to do with a traditional car lease.

It's an employee benefit program. You basically got a car completely furnished, miles, everything, insurance, everything's built in at $550. You can't touch that truck for that. That truck goes down $550 a month in value if you owned it. Okay. And you've got insurance and maintenance and gas and everything else. They include gas, don't they, on some of them?

This one doesn't. Okay. It's got everything. Does maintenance include it? Yep. All maintenance. So car everything. Does maintenance include it? Yep. All maintenance. So car breaks, you just take it in. Yeah, so this is an employee benefit.

This is not like a typical lease. Not your evil car lease program. Right. That the other side of your company sells. But this is a great deal for you, Ethan. What are you driving? Like a Ram? Yeah, it's a Ram

Laramie. Yeah, I thought you were. Because that gum, usually it's not $550. It's usually like $300 when I'm running into these things. But you got, you know, you're driving a freaking $70,000 truck. That's the thing. So good for you! You cannot touch that truck for that

kind of money. It's $6,000 a year and everything's turnkey. If I worked there, I would do that deal. This is not a finance plan. This is not a lease. This is a simple employee benefit, and it is a killer employee benefit. Do it. I guess where I'm kind of debating is, so my wife is on it, too.

She has a Wrangler. Yeah. And I'm wondering if it's worth to have two vehicles on that or try to get something cheaper off let me try this again you cannot operate a vehicle for three times what you're paying okay think about it add insurance maintenance depreciation loss in value right yeah put those three numbers in the calculator dude the truck you're driving it take 1500 1400 a month to replace it okay because the stupid thing's going down in value more than you're paying a month not counting the maintenance

and the insurance yeah and the same is true for her now the other question is you know can you afford are you are you biting off too big a bite of the apple here is your household income support these payments but the bottom line is if you if they support these payments and you were to go buy this vehicle you're going to have 3x in the vehicle what you're paying okay so it's a great deal do as many of them as you need to do as long as you can handle the cash flow out of your income which is unbelievable so what a situation like this dave if you were to leave the company you're just turning in the vehicle yeah you lost it you lost your employee benefit you lost it okay yeah and you and you do need to flip it every year because

they're they're flipping these things out that you know it's a small percentage of their total production going to the employees. Right. But the Nissan plant is very similar right down here on the road from us. The Ford plant is very similar. I've seen those. And BMWs, the other ones got one. They've got one that's pretty similar, too. The guys over in South Carolina that listen to us over there at the Beamer plant, they've

got the same option of driving a stinking beamer for a third a fourth of what it would cost you anyone else right to buy it outside of that employee listen everybody out there that's listening real quick we're talking about an employee benefit program not not a lease yeah i don't want don't don't blow up my inbox with this uh it's an employee benefit plan which is why people are able to do that so it's part of their recruiting it's part of the benefits that they're giving to their team members so just wanted to clarify that yeah in his case on that laramie it's worth the employee benefit the value to him is around a thousand dollars a month because it'd be 1500 to replace what he's doing

for 500 oh yeah his truck payment yeah without a shadow of a doubt so that's another twelve thousand dollars a year in income or effectively his benny package is adding another twelve thousand dollars a year to his value again assuming you can support that level of truck with your income we did not ask his household income i got sidetracked on that but as chris said it's very very very smart to say uh out loud we are not saying it's okay to lease a car this is not leasing a car this is renting from your employee employer as a benefit that's all it is they call it a one-year lease but you can turn it in anytime you want right they don't even hold you to that on these things it's's a very, very good program. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Steven's in Tucson. Hey, Steven, what's up?

Hi, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. How can we help? My wife and I are currently on baby step number six, and we're trying to pay off the mortgage within about five years. We have about two years left on that, and we're doing that by paying an extra $2,000 a month. However, a week and a half ago, we welcomed our first child. Yay!

So we're going to begin saving for a college fund. Good! So my question is, can I tackle both baby steps 5 and 6 at the same time by reducing that extra mortgage payment to around $1,600 and put $400 in the college savings? As a matter of fact, you're supposed to do four, five, and six all simultaneously. You're doing four, right? I'm sorry? You're doing baby step four, right? Yeah, we're completed with baby step.

I mean, we're still doing baby step four, yeah. It's simultaneous. You're putting every month, you're putting 15% of your income, right? Correct. Yeah, because don't tell Mr. Retirement over here to my right that you're not doing your retirement, okay? Chris will take that personal. Yeah, no, you're doing it, buddy. You're doing it. And you could even back

that down to $300 a month as far as saving for college and keep tracking and attacking the house. And then think about it. In five years, the mortgage is paid off. You can decide to step it up, or you may have decided to add to your family either way. Stephen, no. Four, five, and six, they're done all at the same time.

Great job. Yeah, you're doing a really good job. You're paying attention. You're listening to what we're teaching, and you're doing it. As a result, you're going to have the success. I'm very, very proud of you. And by the way, folks, once you get past baby step three, you're out of debt. You have your emergency fund in place.

One, two, and three you do in sequence. Four, five, and six you do simultaneously. But you also let your foot off the gas, and you're not quite as gazelle intense. It's not just beans and rice, rice and beans. you can actually get a steak while you're in there you can go in the restaurant you can go in the restaurant yeah yeah not to wash the dishes but to eat oh there we go there it is this is the dave ramsey show Thank you. you're listening to the best of the dave ramsey show we'll be back soon with more live content cassie is with us in massachusetts hi cass welcome to the dave ramsey show what's up hi dave how? Good. How can we help?

We got a little predicament here between me and my husband. So about nine months ago or so, we moved in with my mother-in-law to save money she offered for us to stay in her basement for much less than we were spending on rent and we had already downsized. The biggest issue is that we've found that she's extremely difficult to live with. And my husband's not super great at communication when it comes to finances. So I feel really, really stuck because he won't really give me, you know, this is how much we want to save to get out. There's just really a big lack of communication there when it comes to... What do you make income? What does he make income? So I'm a stay-at-home mom. I have two little ones under two and he makes about 60k gross why don't you just move out

that's a good question i i asked him that all the time you're asking in a way that he's why isn't he hearing that question well i have we're in baby step two um and we have about um 10k and student loan um and metal between the student loan and medical debt those things are stopping up his ears yeah yeah apparently there is the money side why isn't he Why isn't he answering that question? I don't know. Are you asking the question when you're in a fight or when you're frustrated or you're all having breakfast together and you just say, hey, man, what's the plan? Why isn't he answering this question? I've asked him many, many times, and recently it's blown up into like a fight about it, and now he just doesn't want to talk about it at all.

And we have, you know, had some conversations about it, but it doesn't really go anywhere. I think where he's at is he kind of wants to be out of debt, wants to have a certain amount down for a house before we move, which makes sense. But I think living here is really, really stressful as well. So it's like a big toss up. Is it more stressful for you because you're staying at home? And you're the one having to deal with it? Yeah, I think so. And so, Dave, you've answered this question for 150 years on this show i i can't i can't help that was a little bit of a boomer joke there i i can't help but think that your husband's not

understanding not hearing you um and you're not aligned in with when it comes to values right he doesn't understand the pain that you're sitting in. And, like, doesn't understand the emotional cost. You've got to move. You've got to get out of the house. Yeah, I feel that in my core. I really, really feel it in my core. We did take financial peace this past November after we moved in here,

and we were like, yes, we're doing the right thing. moved to save money we're living financial peace never told you to move into your toxic mother-in-law's basement not one time right no but we we thought um that you know moving it gave us the amount of space that we needed for two kids because I was pregnant with our second and we did not have space at the current place that we were at and we were like oh this is great we'll save money for a house but now it's to the point where i don't think it's worth it anymore and he's like but we're still in baby step two that's great but you're at a sunk cost you made you you tried something you went for it it was it seemed like a cool idea it sounded great on the back of a napkin. And now your marriage is suffering for it,

and your trust in each other is suffering for it. Your two kids are absorbing your attention. They're absorbing y'all's dysfunction, and you've got to move. Okay. And you have to speak to him. The only person in this you can control is you, and you have to speak to him in a way that he can hear it and waiting till there's a fight or you say we've we've i keep bringing it

up bringing it up the the other side of that word the the negative word there is nagging and nagging somebody never gets somebody it never gets what you want and so you've got to find a place whether it's getting off site whether it's leaving the kids with mother-in-law and going somewhere and sitting down and saying, it's not an if, it's when we move. And I'm about to put a date on a calendar to get my kids out of this thing. And I want you to be a part of this with us. And we've got to come up with a date together. And we've got to work on this together. That's the foundation of FPU is together decision making.

And for whatever reason, he's not hearing it yeah so if your marriage or his uh emotional capacity does not allow him to hear you when you don't have children in the room they're asleep you're used to the white noise of toddlers but most people can't concentrate with that crap so they're asleep. And you take his two hands and your two hands and you look in his eyes and you say, Listen to me carefully. I can't stay here anymore. I'm leaving.

So I think we ought to leave. This is not okay anymore. And if he can't hear you when you do that, and you haven't cut through all the clutter of everything, because we've talked about this before, guys don't get subtlety. You have to be very direct, look directly into his eyes. He has to hear you with no emotion, no side crap, and you go, I'm done. I'm done. I love your mom, but I can't stay here anymore.

And I know we had a goal in trying to do this, but it's not working. This is driving me crazy. On a scale of 1 to 10, this is a 12. The fire alarms are going off. The fire alarms are going off. Yes. The fire alarms are going off. And if you can't hear me, we're going to have to sit down with the pastor and begin marriage counseling because I am leaving this place. And he has to hear that.

And if he can't hear that then, then you've got a pretty dull dude and you've got some other issues. You've got other issues in your marriage. there's other stuff going on and so you guys will need to sit down and to begin some marriage counseling to save your marriage because you got other stuff that this is just this is just the symptom then if this is the real problem then it just you transfer and you go it's nothing to do with baby step two you can do baby step two anywhere just no matter how fast it works that's all and i want to honor the guy who's saying okay we've got this plan we're going to get out of debt here's the map here's the date here's the analytics here's the whatever frontal lobe nonsense um but guys when you do that man you burn up people's souls well i mean you you can run like that as long as she's running with you.

That's what I mean. But this is a situation where she's not running with you anymore, and it's because the mother-in-law hijacked your plan. And it was a cute idea. It was cool. It was a good idea as long as she was cute, but she ain't cute. I mean, you know, it just doesn't work anymore. And not many people can do that, by the way.

Oh, that's hard. Not many people can do that, particularly in Anglo households. Hispanics are much better at it. Yeah. They're much more family. They love each other. I don't know. I don't know how they deal with it, but they do a better job.

That culture does a lot better job with it. But it's much more standard, so to speak. But Anglos, man, we don't go back home well. We just don't. We don't let go well. Well, and then there's mom. Yeah. Good Lord.

We've been picking on mom all day today. But anyway. My mom's awesome. Yeah. Well, so there you go. That's how that works. And so are your friends and whatever else. There you go.

Just keep it up. Just keep it up. Yeah, you're just that guy. But yeah, I think it's a, the thing is this. You can pay a price, and you could even put up with her. As long as you can see the end of it. You've got to have a finish line. You've got to have a finish line, and it's got to be before my emotional tank is completely dry.

That's right. You know, the little thing on the dashboard is reading I've got 46 miles left before I'm out of gas. And it's blinking at you. And the thing says 30 miles. Okay, I think we're going to make it. But if it says 300 miles, screw it. We're going to be out of gas. Or almost worse, when you don't know how far you're going.

Yeah, that's worse. Remember the football coach that would say, you'd say, how long are we going to run? He'd say, until I get tired of watching you. I'd rather know we're going to run 100. Until you throw up a lot. That's right. Yeah, that guy. Put a deadline. If we're going to run 100. Until you throw up a lot. That's right. Yeah, that guy. Put a deadline.

If you're going to do something crazy like live in mom's basement. You can put up with a lot of pain if you know when it's going to be over. Put a deadline on there. That's right. It's going to take about 30 seconds. Hold your breath. Bite through a pillow. Okay, got that.

So, yeah, it's just, you can do this. But you've got to have a deadline, and you guys have got to be willing to work together. You know, your tune might change if you knew it was going to be two months. But when it feels like it might be two years, or who knows. Yeah. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, it's Kelly, associate producer and phone screener for The Dave Ramsey Show. This episode is over, but if you heard about an event, product, or service

and didn't have a chance to write it down, don't worry. We list everything you've heard about during this episode in the podcast show notes or head to DaveRamsey.com. Thanks for listening.