The Ramsey Show - App - Make a Plan, Lean into It, and Reach Your Goals (Hour 3)

Episode Date: November 9, 2018

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🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. You jump in, we'll talk about your life and your money. It is a free call at 888-825-5225. You jump in, we'll talk. Victoria is in Cheyenne, Wyoming. Hi, Victoria, how are you? Hi, Dave, I'm fine, how are you?

Better than I deserve. What's up? Okay, my father and mother are up against mesothelioma and diabetes, respectively, currently. I am going to be executive of their trust. My brother and I are the trustees. My brother's five years older than I am. He's down a questionable path, so it's in the trust that it's going to be up to me to pay him 4% of his share based on my opinion of whether or not he's going to hurt himself with the money. If my dad passes first, I want to be able to help my mom manage the investments.

If they both pass, I'm going to be responsible for everything and I want to equip myself well. They live in California. What would you do to prepare yourself for this responsibility? Sounds like you guys have done a good job of walking through and communicating about this. All of this is written up, is that correct? It's all done? Okay, good. And how much money is involved? A little under $2 million.

Okay. And what's it currently invested in? They have it in a lot of different mutual funds, their house, and I believe they have a couple of different retirement accounts, an IRA, I know for sure. Okay. Do they use an investment advisor? No, they do not okay all right um well uh and your brother is in the loop that if he is going to not do himself uh well with the money that you are to cut him out he knows this, they've told him. Okay, and you're sure of that?

I haven't heard it from his mouth, but my dad told me they did, and I do believe him. Okay. Do you have much contact with your brother? Not about anything serious. He kind of stops talking to you if you try to talk about serious things. Okay. Well, I'm going to have this conversation in person with him sometime, and that is my job, see, when you're made the executor of an estate,

you are to execute the person that had the estate's wishes. Not your wishes. Their wishes. That's what the law says. Okay? Now, if you're an heir, when you own money, then that's it. But if you're a trustee of a trust, then you are to manage the trust as the original people put it together to be managed. In other words, your opinion doesn't matter. And what happens in situations like this is where your brother is potentially going to be financially disciplined is he starts to do a transference, we call it in psychology,

meaning he starts to blame you for not giving him money. And it's not your fault. It's your parents' fault. Okay? And by the way, I agree with them. I think they're doing the right thing, okay? So what I want to do is establish a conversation with him that's like, hey, bub, here's the thing.

I'm going to do what mom and dad tells me to do with this because that is their wishes, number one. Number two, it's the law, and I would be liable for lawsuit if I don't do, if I don't follow through on their wishes. And so it's not about me punishing you. It's about me following the directions that they gave me to handle this. So if you ever want to be mad at somebody about any of this stuff, other than yourself, Bubba, you're going to have to be mad at them. I want to have that conversation. Okay?

Okay. Ahead of time. More of these conversations you can have ahead of time, the more you nip it in the bud. Okay? Now, as far as you getting ready, you need to be informed of every detail of every part of the investments

and begin to learn about them. And it's not that big a deal. You're already pretty informed. You just were able to give me the numbers right off the top of your head. You're up to speed. You've been schooled on this already. And now you just start the process of learning what a mutual fund is, how to decide whether it's a good one or not.

Is it doing better than the S&P? What does that mean? If it's not, do I need to move it? Is it outperforming its category? What does that mean? If it isn't, we need to move it. And that may mean that you need an investment professional like a Smart Investor Pro in your corner to help you

with this uh to manage it for the good of your mom later for yourself and maybe for your brother but the way you do that is you just you want to learn enough that you are doing this not because they originally set it up that way because this is not nostalgia this is investment management and so we learn about the mutual funds and we go well i don't care if dad bought that or not it's it now sucks we need to move it right it's a bad idea and so you move it and you learn and you learn and you learn and you learn pretend like someone was hiring you to manage money for them what would you do you you'd school yourself on it you'd start to learn to where you were at least passably competent, and then you've got people speaking into it.

You've got your knowledge, but then you also put people around you, and a good estate planner. You put a good insurance person in your life. You put a good investment person in your life. All that have the heart of a teacher, because the Bible says in the multitude of counsel, there's safety. And so you form your own little personal board of directors. They don't technically have a say, but they're all there.

I've got a real estate person I can call. I've got an insurance person I can call. I've got a tax person I can call. I've got an estate planning person I can call. I've got an investment, mutual fund investment broker, advisor that I can call. And I sit down and I talk it through with them. I learn from them, and then based on the information they give me and the information I already knew about the subject,

I put all of that together and I make a good decision. In the multitude of counsel, there is safety. And so you're gathering up information from experts in the field that have the heart of a teacher. And you're learning from them. So I would begin to put that board of directors together now. And tell them the same exact thing you told me. And let them coach you through that. And I would have a preemptive conversation with your brother sometime in the coming 12 months just to let him know hey i am this is not about me and you

this is about you and this trust and i am required by law to manage this trust a certain way and so you know if you're going to be drugs, we're not going to be funding your drugs. It's, you know, it's part of the terms of the trust. And this is where people get mad at each other in managing estates. Well, my brother won't cut the money, at least to me. My sister won't. You don't have a choice. You have to do what the trust says. You have to execute what the will says when you're the executor.

That's what executor means. You execute what someone else said you had to do. It's not about your opinion. And that's what brother needs to get through his little brain because this is going to come up. It's going to come up. It's not a matter of if. It's just a matter of when. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Did you know, statistically, when it comes to life insurance and protecting your family, that women are more likely to be uninsured or underinsured than men. This doesn't make any sense. Women make up half the workforce, contribute mightily to family incomes,

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That's Zander.com or 800-356-4282. Thank you for joining us, America. Glenn is in Huntington, West Virginia. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show, Glenn. Hi, Dave. How are you doing? Better than I deserve, man. How can I help? Better than I deserve, too. Dave, I'm looking at nursing as a second career. I'm 54 years old. I am single and have no debt. I do qualify for vocational rehabilitation because I have a spinal

problem and I've got a bad hip right now. So I'm having trouble doing any kind of job. We're one month away from starting the first semester of nursing school, and I was notified that vocational rehab is cutting our funds. So I guess it's the state decided that they needed to allocate money somewhere else. I don't know exactly why. This came up just this week, and I'm looking at having to spend $2,500 just to go to class the first day. Do you have $2,500? I've got about $12,000 in the bank, and my properties are paid for and that kind of thing um i don't have a rental income i'm not working um i actually came back here from north carolina to take care of

my dad some years ago and um got stuck in this um cycle of got a bad hip looking for a job can't find a job and finally went back to vocational rehab. And I'm a straight-A student right now. Okay, good for you. And all the pre-nursing classes. And how much will it cost to go through nursing school? Approximately $15,000 to $20,000. Okay. Do you have one of the properties that you own that you could sell that would pay for that?

Yes. I don't think it's going to sell in 30 days. Well, you have $12,000. I mean, you can take the first $2,500 and get started, get the property up for sale, and pay for it, right? Yes, that's true. The property that I could sell is in North Carolina. Well, the other thing, I guess, is... What's it worth?

The one that I would sell right now would be $30,000. Okay. Well, that would definitely take care of everything, and it's paid for. I think for the next two years, yes. Yeah, and that gets you through nursing school. I'm curious, if your hip is messed up, how you're going to nurse? Well, they're looking at doing a hip replacement. Okay.

And so I haven't done very well at taking care of myself. I've got some other things that I've got to get under control, like the high blood pressure and high blood sugar. It's not really high, but it's there. So we're waiting on that. And that's kind of a negative thing. And I've been through student loans before. They've offered to give me the student loan.

No, thank you. You have the money to pay for it. You just have to decide that you want nursing that badly. Yeah. to pay for it you just have to decide that you want nursing that badly yeah and i think vocational rehab has said that they were going to take care of the the hip replacement but uh you know i'm kind of nervous about everything with our economy nowadays and it's making me a little you know a little bit upset uh yeah i have started looking for a job but but there's not much here. And this late notice, it's kind of difficult. Sure.

Well, I mean, if you can get the hip replacement done and get through nursing school by selling this piece of property, you know, that puts you in your mid-50s with a nursing degree, and there's no reason you stay there then. You can go wherever you want to go, right? Yep, that's true. And that's kind reason you stay there then. You can go wherever you want to go, right? Yep, that's true. And that's kind of an option, you know, especially with long-distance nursing or what they call it, travel nursing. Yeah, but I mean, there's nothing that, is there anything, is your dad still alive? No, no. What's holding you there?

The girlfriend. Okay, all right. That's's fair that's a reasonable anchor yeah well i mean you just kind of got to start laying out your goals like that and saying what do i want more than i want something else and my rule is i don't want anything badly enough to go into debt for it period just period not going into debt now once i start that then if i lay that as my foundation then i got to look around go okay how can i do this they were going to pay for it they're not i got a house over north carolina get that sold we're not moving back there that way doesn't sound like let's get it sold use that money finish up

nursing get the hip replacement done hopefully they're going to pay for that hopefully they don't pull the funding on that too and um And, you know, as you said, get your blood pressure under control so you can get that surgery done. And, you know, let's look up with a game plan where we're doing something you want to do with your life a few months, a few years from now. But you systematically take steps towards that. And that all sounds more important than owning a $30,000 house in North Carolina to me. Cliff is in Springfield. Hi, Cliff, how are you? Hey, how you doing, Dave?

Better than I deserve. What's up? Great. Okay, Dave, so I got a question. So basically, my wife and I paid off all our debt,k um and i make about 60k she makes about 33k good for you um thank you so with that being said right now we're she really wants a house we've been married for about four years now no kids but um she she really wants a house good uh but now my rent that i rent from a kind of like a friend, friend connections type of acquaintance.

And my rent is about 640 bucks. Now that includes heat, hot water, electricity, cable and internet, everything. So right now I'm not really in a rush to leave the spot. So would you recommend just, you know, paying the 20% down and just getting a house if that's going to make her happy? Or would you think it would be smarter just to wait it, like, you know, three, four years and then possibly get a house? Yeah. Cash. Okay.

Well, I mean, you need to decide together which of those routes you're going to go. And, you know, you just say, okay, how much money do we need to buy a house exactly, and how long will it take us to save that amount? And do the actual math. We're going to save this much a month for these many months that gets us to paying cash or paying 20% down or whatever. We tell folks to be debt-free, have your emergency fund in place, and have a good strong down payment before you buy. And I think you're pretty much in that situation. Yep.

And never buy more than a 15-year fixed where the payment is more than a fourth of your income. And if you do that, we don't yell at people. If you do something other than that, we say you're not ready to buy a house yet. That's dumb. But if you've got your emergency fund, your debt-free, plus some kind of a down payment, and on a 15-year fixed, you're able to pull this off where the payment's no more than a fourth of your take-home pay, there's nothing wrong with that.

I don't borrow money at all, but it's the one kind of debt in that situation that for a short period of time I don't yell at you for. I still want you to get that paid off as quick as you can. Renting for the rest of your life because your guy is giving you a good deal is not a plan. Renting for a period of time because you're getting a good deal in order to achieve a goal of time because you're getting a good deal in order to achieve a goal of a certain down payment level or a hundred percent down payment level that's fine too but just this idea that oh we're going to rent because it's cheap and someday we'll buy a house

no no that doesn't work in in 42 months i'm going to buy a house. In 44 months, 36 months, 37 months, whatever it is, that's how we're going to buy our house. And if she doesn't see that and then you all don't do the hard work to move towards that every single month, then she's not going to be okay having patience with this because she's going to think you're just going to sit there and rent the rest of your life, and that's not a plan. And she would be right about that. So we to sit there and rent the rest of your life, and that's not a plan, and she would be right about that. So we don't want you renting the rest of your life. We want you to have a plan, lean into the plan, whatever it is. But somewhere between the 15-year fixed where the high payment's no more than a fourth of your take-home pay,

somewhere between that and 100% down, anywhere in that range is an okay conservative range. And then turn around and get the house paid off as fast as you possibly can. So, hey, man, thanks for calling in. We appreciate you joining us. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. I'm Mike Pearson. Why in the world would you trust some random guy in a cube when getting your mortgage? Do you really think he cares about your long-term money goals? Well, he doesn't. Those companies care about getting you into whatever home loan program they're pushing that week.

When it comes to ordering a cheeseburger, the meal deal works fine. But let's get real, people. We're talking about the largest investment you'll probably ever make, so don't be naive and trust an order taker who pressures you into a prepackaged loan. My friends at Churchill Mortgage have been helping my listeners for over 25 years. Call Churchill Mortgage and get custom solutions from an expert within 10 minutes. It's simple. They'll shoot straight with you and quickly show you the real way to save money.

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Hey, guys, how are you? Doing well, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. Welcome. Where do you live? Edgewood, Kentucky. It's northern Kentucky, just south of Cincinnati. Oh, Cincinnati. Very cool. Just across the river then. Yes, sir. Well, welcome to Nashville. Good to have you guys. And all the way down here to do your debt-free scream.

Yes, sir. Very fun. And how much have you paid off? We paid off $130,000 in the last five years. Good for you. And your range of income during that time? It was $80,000 to $110,000. Very cool. And what type of debt was the debt was the 130? That is our mortgage. You paid off your house? Yes. Looking at weird people. Yes. Love it. In five years you did this? Yes, sir. Very fun. Man, I love it. Well, tell me the story. What happened five years ago?

Oh, actually our story kind of started before that. We've been married nine years. So before we got married, we agreed that we would pay off any debt. He had a student loan and I had a car payment. So we paid that off right before we got married. And Jamie immediately lost his job right after we got married. So we went through a couple of years of unemployment and underemployment and it was awful. And finally we both got back on our feet. We both had a steady income. And we decided, let's just pay off the house now. Okay. So that was about five years ago.

Okay. All right. And then you just decided to tear into it. Yes. Yes. Okay. At what point in your story did you intersect us? It was before we got married, actually.

I've been listening to the radio show a lot. We went to a live event in Louisville right before we got married. So 10 years ago. Yeah. Yes. It's been a while. Wow. Okay. Very cool. Very cool. show a lot we went we went to a live event in louisville um right before we got married so 10 years ago yeah yes it's been a while wow okay very cool very cool so you had this in the back of your mind and then once everything got stabilized you were able to really lean in and say okay let's knock out the house for goodness sakes we've been through hell let's get the house knocked out yes yes yeah lots of overtime second job yeah you leaned. You leaned in, huh? Yes, sir. Okay. Very cool. When Jamie lost his job, I was five, six months pregnant.

So it was really scary. Here I thought, oh, I could take a little time off instead of, oh, I get to work overtime. So we didn't ever want to go through that again. Yeah. You get pushed in the corner like that, you don't ever want to be there again. No. Yeah, that's very real. Well, how old are you two?

I'll be 40 in April. I'll be 40 next year also. Okay. So before you're 40, your house is paid off. Yes. Yes. This is so cool. And what's the house worth?

$200 maybe. Okay. Excellent. Very good. Oh, there's a picture of it popping up on YouTube. Nice. Nice place. Thank you.

Very cool. Well, congratulations, you guys. How's it feel to not have a payment in the world? We're still getting used to it. It's only been a couple months, so it's exciting. We're buying things. In cash and not feeling bad about it. I'll bet.

No guilt at all. A trip to Nashville, no guilt at all. None. I love it. Very fun. all a trip to nashville no guilt at all i love it very fun so um there's a a 30 year old couple out there getting married and they got a little bit of debt and they think it's okay and they're listening to you right now they're you 10 years ago do it now do it now i mean we're we're three kids in at this point it just gets harder the more kids you add. Do it. Pay off the debt now.

It's just you two, and you can control your income, and you have a lot more control but less people in the house, I feel like. That's true. After there's more people in the house, it's the illusion of control. Yeah, I love it. Yeah, you're not kidding. So what do you tell them the key to getting out of debt and staying out of debt is? What was it you all did that caused you to be successful?

It was setting a plan. Having on the side of the refrigerator a calendar with a date and said, we're going to pay this house off at this month and this year. And having that there to see it and then. Were you earlier or later than that date? Almost right on. I think a month. Maybe two months early.

Wow. Wow. So it was very methodical then. Yeah. And I think big payments help. I. So it was very methodical then. Yeah. And I think big payments help. I mean, Jamie gets paid every other week. So if there was a month where there was an extra paycheck, that immediately went to the mortgage.

If I worked overtime, I had a detail, that went right to the mortgage. So big payments really gave you more momentum. Chunks. Yeah. It was motivating to see that big chunk come off that debt. Yeah. Watch that mortgage balance drop. Watch it drop, drop, drop, drop, drop. Very cool. So having a goal and a deadline, very specific, very methodical, that's thing one.

What else? And big chunks is thing two. What else would you tell them to do to get out of debt? Save the plan. I think it's important because I think people might say, well, we can't do this. You know, we tithe. Part of our income goes to tithing. We put into our kids' college accounts.

We put into our retirement accounts. But as long as you stay with the plan, you can do all those things and pay off debt. So we didn't try to cheat in one area or the other to get the house paid off. So you were working the baby steps as a purist. Absolutely. Absolutely. As best we could. It was hard to stop going out

for dinner, for lunch. It was one of those things where I was just used to that lifestyle. Having to change that, it was a culture flip for me. More so than autumn. But seeing the light, seeing that it was possible, and seeing that

freedom that it was going to offer, and we're just now starting to realize it. So you've got to remember. Your kids are little. Yeah, you've got plenty of time to do all kinds of stuff. You've got no house payment now. Yes. I mean, live like no one else now.

You can live and give like no one else. Yeah. Very, very cool. And you brought the kiddos, and their names and ages are what? Our oldest is Josiah. He's six. And then Damian, he's four. And our daughter, Winter, she is two.

Okay, cool. And you brought friends or family with you to cheer you on? Yeah. Yes. My dad's here, and my dad, he knew about the baby steps before they were the baby steps. My dad had the envelope system. Okay. Two years old is fun.

Winter's having a fit. Okay. All right. It's all good. Yeah. So the kids' ages and names are what? This is Josiah. He's six.

And this is Damien. He's four. And then our baby's two. Her name's Winter. All right. And she's not having a good day. So it's all good. She's having a good day.

She just doesn't know it. That's it. Yeah. All right. We got a copy of Chris H it's all good. She's having a good day. She just doesn't know it. That's it. All right. We got a copy of Chris Hogan's retire inspired book for you. That's the next chapter in your story to be millionaires and outrageously generous along the way. Way to go, guys. I know your dad's proud of you. We're proud of you.

Congratulations. Very well done. It's Jamie and Autumn, Josiah, Damian, and Winter from the Cincinnati area. $130,000 paid off in five years, making $80,000 to $110,000. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Ready, guys? Three, two, one.

We're debt-free! I love it! Way to go, you guys. Absolutely awesome. Man, that's how it's done right there. Fabulous. Good job, you two. Very well done.

Well, folks, you do not need a second mortgage to make your home over. You can get brand new custom blinds without paying custom prices from Blinds.com. With Blinds.com, you get free samples, free shipping, new promos every month. Use the promo code RAMSEY at Blinds.com. They give us our question of the day. Jonathan in Washington, do you recommend critical illness insurance for a baby or just a term life plan? Babies should have health insurance, which covers critical illness illness as a part of your family health insurance plan as far as life insurance on a child life insurance is not a good place to invest money it is only there to cover the loss you invest your money in good investments so cash value life insurance is basically the

payday lender of the middle class it rips you off so what i put what i say for your kids college fund in a life insurance plan never in a million years not if you actually want them to go to college they won't have any money so now would now, would you buy life insurance, pure term life on a child? Only enough to cover what we call final expenses, God forbid. Burial, funeral, that kind of a thing. And usually a $15,000 rider, a $10,000 rider, a $20,000 rider on your term policy, you can get that for $50 or $100 a year, something like that, if you want to add that. But once you have your emergency fund of $15,000 or $20,000,

I would self-insure through that horrible possibility, and I would not buy it. Now, I did have a term rider on my kids when I was young, and the kids were young and I was broke. As I got a little bit of money and had my emergency fund, I dropped the term rider. And, of course, I did investing for the kids in real investments, not in life insurance products. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Thank you. Our scripture of the day, Proverbs 19.1. Better is a poor person who walks in his integrity than one who is crooked in speech and is a fool. C.S. Lewis said, education without values, as useful as it is, seems rather to make a man a more clever devil. Ooh.

Yeah. Money without values does that, too. Values give you the skeletal structure in your character to carry knowledge or money or power or even some fame because it's all kind of dangerous if it's if it's placed on somebody that's valued that has no values then you get you get train wrecks you get dumpster fires i mean you get all kinds of problems it's just um you have to have values and you go dumpster fires. I mean, you get all kinds of problems. It's just you have to have values, and you go, this is who I am. And, you know, the thing about that is some people have trouble making decisions.

You ever have trouble making decisions? I used to have trouble making decisions a lot. And then I firmly said out loud and wrote down several things that are non-negotiables in my life, meaning my values. And we've done that here at the company as well. We 15 actually 14 now core values on the wall and those are who we are they're not just things we put on a brochure they're not things it is who we are i was talking about one of them this morning in staff meeting as a matter of fact and it tells us who we are and so what that means is a lot of our decisions are already made.

Now, we don't always like having to follow through because it involves conflict, it involves pain, it involves, you know, having to face people and face our fears and all that kind of stuff. But when you have your value system in place, then it automatically gives you your answer. In a lot of cases, not all the time, but a lot of cases, it just goes, you know, because it's a non-negotiable. I don't do that.

An example, a simple one in my personal life is, this will come to a shock to all of you. None of you have ever heard me say this before. I don't borrow money. So a lot of my decisions are made because if i don't have the money i can't buy it it's a pretty simple formula isn't it i can't afford that i can't and it doesn't matter how rich you get there's something you can't afford i mean i was with a friend of mine the other day. He has a new Gulfstream.

Unbelievable. $52 million aircraft. I can't afford one of those. I can't afford it. It's very nice, though. I'll tell you, it's a Mercedes in the air, man. It's a Bentley in the air. It's unbelievable.

But I can't afford that thing. I can't afford it. And he's only the money for it. And so even if I wanted it, I don't really want it. It was just very nice. But, I mean, it's pretty incredible. But I just can money for it. And so even if I wanted it, I don't really want it. It was just very nice. But, I mean, it's pretty incredible. But I just can't afford it. So the decision's already made because I already decided the other part of the decision, which is I don't borrow money.

Now, I could probably afford the payments on it, actually, if I was stupid enough to borrow money on a $52 million aircraft. But that would be like, that's like $52 million worth of stupid right there. All right, John's with us. John's in Raleigh, North Carolina. Hey, John, how are you? Hey, Dave. Thanks for taking my call.

Sure, man. What's up? So I just started listening to your show here a couple weeks ago, and I think I heard something about you buying rental property only if you can pay cash for it. Exactly. So I'm a single dad, and I've been blessed. My mom blessed me with a home here, and it's paid for. And so I was thinking about selling a home, and with the check that I get from the home,

I can actually purchase two townhomes and rent them out cash. Where would you live? Well, I was thinking I could live in one of the units and have like a roommate and have income for that. The only debt I have is I have a car payment. It's about $26,000. So you have custody of your child? 50-50. Okay.

All right. Little girl, little boy? Boy. Eight-year-old boy. Okay. Cool. Very cool. All right.

And what's this house worth? Probably sell it for about $325. Whoa. Nice gift. And she gave it to you, no strings attached. Right. Okay. And what is your income?

So recently I switched jobs, and now it's about $120. Okay. Do you have any money saved? I do. and now it's about $120,000. Okay. Do you have any money saved? I do. I have about $8,000. Okay. Well, one of my first goals is going to be to get your car paid for.

My second goal is going to build your emergency fund of three to six months of expenses. And so if you sold this house, I would deduct those two amounts out of the equation and then see if I can still do your goal. Okay. Yeah, it's a lot of house for a guy that has an eight-year-old 50% of the time and single otherwise. Yeah. It's a big old property. I mean, it's a nice property in Raleigh, North Carolina. But, yeah, you probably could buy a couple of 150s or so, you know, 120 townhouses.

And that would probably do you just fine for this stage in your life. You want to be careful when you buy those that you are buying in an area that's going to go up in value as much as the 325 would have gone up. Right. So you want to be careful that you're not buying in some weird area or something, okay? Because sometimes townhouses are popped in on just vacant lots in strange areas, and I don't want you taking that kind of risk. I'd rather you sit in this predictable neighborhood that you're apparently in than I would take some kind of risk.

But if you wanted to pay off everything and have your emergency fund and then buy two properties for cash, one to live in and one to rent out, that would be fine. I don't have a problem with that at all. I would not want you to keep a car payment if you're doing that. I never want you to go back in debt again because we know that the shortest path to wealth is to become debt-free. I mean, if you have no payments in the world,

you make $120,000 a year, and you're a single guy, I mean, you've got the ability to really do some serious investing, some serious generosity. You know, you take care of your kids' college, your retirement. There's so many wonderful things you can do because you're so freed up. Your most powerful wealth-building tool is your income. And at that point, John, you would have complete control of it. But I think you're thinking generally in the right direction that's just a couple of my tweaks on

your idea ilia our ilia ilia is with us in atlanta ilia how are you hey good day how are you thanks for taking my call sure man what's up so i'm an eight month old daughter and we uh me and my wife are putting some money away for college. Cool. $100 a month, and we picked the mutual fund because of the flexibility. You know, if you get the scholarship, we could maybe pay for the wedding, down payment on a house for her, a car. If she gets a scholarship. Or is it just a regular mutual fund? You know, there's the ESA plan that I'm foregoing, which is the tax. Yeah, you're making a mistake because you've got bad information.

If you have an ESA or a 529 and she gets a scholarship, you can remove the money without any penalties from the equal amount. So if she gets a scholarship for $13,000, you pull $13,000 out without any penalties. Okay. Wow. Good to know. Yes. And do I have up until the age of 30 to do that? For her to use the money for school, yes. Okay.

So don't overfund it. But, you know, if you put, you know, $15,000, $20,000, $30,000 in there in the next few years um you know her call that'll grow to like 100 120 130 whatever in there that'll be more you won't you'll you'll need more than that but at least that much will have grown tax free and if she does get scholarships then you've got the ability to move some other direct move in some other directions and get some things done so hey man thanks for being a listener. Thousands of women are realizing their dreams by using their God-given gifts to start their very own businesses, and you can, too.

You don't have to have the answers, and it's okay to be scared, even if you're running your own business. For years, Christy Wright has been coaching women on how to make money doing what they love, and that's how she created the Business Boutique Academy. You need to check it out at businessboutique.com. That about puts this particular hour of the Dave Ramsey Show in the books. Thanks to James Childs and Kelly Daniel in the booth. I am Dave Ramsey, your host.

We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Thanks to all of you for listening and helping us spread the word.