The Ramsey Show - App - Make Clear Decisions, Not Rush Decisions (Hour 2)

Episode Date: July 12, 2019

Take control of your money once and for all. The Dave Ramsey Show offers up straight talk on life and money. Millions listen in as callers from all walks of life learn how to get out of debt and start building for the future. Check out the fifth most downloaded podcast of 2018!   Tools to get you started: Debt Calculator: http://bit.ly/2QIoSPV Insurance Coverage Checkup: http://bit.ly/2BrqEuo Complete Guide to Budgeting: http://bit.ly/2QEyonc Interview Guide: http://bit.ly/2BuGnZE     Check out other podcasts in the Ramsey Network: http://bit.ly/2JgzaQR 

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studio, this is the Dave Ramsey Show, where America hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money. Sitting in for Dave, I'm Chris Hogan, excited to be with you, America. And I'm joined in studio by best-selling author and host of The Ken Coleman Show, Mr. Ken Coleman. Chris, how are you? I am focused and not finished, buddy. I like that. Yes.

I like that a lot. And you certainly are focused and certainly not finished. No, can't be finished. We've got things to do. And this is one of them. How fun is it then when Dave lets us come in the old studio and have fun for an hour? And always good to do this with you. It is fun.

And so, America, listen, we want your questions. Ken is in here, and he's going to help you. If you've got a career question, you're contemplating how to make a change, or maybe you're stuck in a job you don't care about and you want some guidance, I want you to call us. The number to call is 888-825-5225. Again, that's 888-825-5225. Again, that's 888-825-5225. Or you can find us on social at Ramsey Show. So we're ready to take your money questions.

We're ready to take your career questions. We are armed and ready. So if you have it, call us. We want to hear from you. We're going to the phones. We've got Dave in Milwaukee on the line. Dave, how are you? Better than I deserve.

I need some help today. How can I help you, buddy? So I'm wondering, my wife and I are finishing up paying the credit card portion of Baby Step 2, but then we're also in stork mode. A baby due in November will be number four. But my question is this. My student loan debt, our student loan debt, is $500,000. And we've got a mortgage of $117,000 and $117,300.

And it's a 7-in-1 arm. I'm wondering, do I attack that lousy arm first, or do I attack the student loan debt first? Okay. $500,000 in student loans. Is someone, an MD in the house? No, I'm the lawyer. This is mostly my fault. Okay. $500,000 in student loans. Is someone an MD in the house? No, I'm a lawyer. This is mostly my fault. Okay. All right. So law school, uh, what's your, what's your income right now? Uh, my first job pays 51,000. My second job delivering pieces at night is about 20. You said the first job is $51,000?

That's right. Okay. My goodness. Okay. And you've been paying on these loans already? Most of it is, it's a really low repayment program. It's an overly crappy 25-year repayment and the government would repay the rest.

But again, I have no hope that that's ever going to happen. So this is mainly an income problem, but I've been looking for a job since October, and I haven't been able to find one. Got you. What area of law do you specialize in? General practice. Okay.

And did you go to a private school? Yes. Okay. And did you go back and get your doctorate as well? It's a J.D. It is a Juris Doctor. Okay. And did you go back and get your doctorate as well? It's a JD. It is a Juris Doctor. Okay. Wow.

What's the financial reality if you were to upgrade? If Chris and I could snap our fingers right now and give you that law gig that you want, what do you think you'd be making based on what you know of the industry? I have no idea. That's a problem. I've been out of the law practice for a few years. I work for government, and so I'm not really sure what my market rate is. Well, there's the first step of research, Chris.

I'll let you give him the financial advice, but I'm just going to kind of jump in here and say, you need to be using the proximity principle and get around some practicing lawyers and see if, hey, is this something I do want to get back into? And if it is, in fact, because you've done it before, what are the realities of the market and what you could be making? Because you just told Chris a moment ago, this is an income problem. And I don't think income should be a problem much longer. No, I don't think so either.

And I think where you are and what you're looking at, you've got a lot of stuff happening. You've got the baby number four coming. You've got this 7-1 arm, which I don't like. That's a situation. All they do is reset after seven years to then send you back starting over. The issue is, is based on your income right now, I don't think you would qualify for a refinance. So we've got an income situation. And I like that you're out there, Dave, and you're hustling.

You've got the second job but i agree with ken getting around some other attorneys and looking you and your wife really starting to brainstorm and and start to realize do we have to relocate right uh to a state with reciprocity based on your legal degree uh to be able to look and everything needs to get out on the table as you you're thinking about this, you've got a family to take care of and you can hear it in your voice. You're frustrated. And again, you've gone through a lot of schooling. You're licensed to be able to practice. Now what you have to do is we've got to find that income to come in so you can start to attack and clean up the student loan debt. So be careful. Don't don't rely on credit cards to supplement income. That's a dangerous thing.

And I see people do that all the time. And it only causes themselves more headache and heartache later. So, Dave, again, get connected with some attorneys. Start talking and realize what else you can do. I'm going to give him two words that he needs to be waking up thinking about, going to sleep thinking about. All right, what's that? After he takes care of all of his other duties. Yeah.

Billable hours. Because, listen, Dave's got character. He's out delivering pizzas. I think he's down. And I think if he gets serious about it, listen, I just need to get practice in law. I need to get in a decent law firm so where I can start billing hours. And then $51,000 or $50,000, whatever it is, it becomes a distant memory. And all of a sudden, he has some money, some income to fix these problems that you and Dave have shared with him.

He knows how to do it. He just needs some money, billable hours. No, you're right. And that could look like, Dave, you helping businesses and their governance, corporate governance. That could look like you helping local governments or business owners. Again, it might be a matter of expanding and diversifying your offering to be able to guide people. But again, thinking like an entrepreneur will kind of put you on that page.

So that's what I would do, Dave. That's the direction to take. And again, getting focused and getting serious. All right, next up, I've got Jordan on the line in Yakima, Washington. Jordan, how are you? Good, guys. How are you guys? Doing good. What question do you have

for Ken and I? Well, I kind of have a morality question, a business morality question. I'm in Baby Step 2 paying off a loan, a student loan, basically, for a degree I'm not using. It got me the job,

but I recently was given a chance to go to, you know, move to more of a production role in the ag industry. And I got to travel quite a bit to Europe and move around and kind of move around in the company, get some projects beneath my belt. But it kind of opened my eyes that I want to go to business school. I kind of, you know, I love the company I work for, but I don't think that they're the right fit for me in the long term. And I

recently approached my boss about going back to business school and having them pay for it. But the morality part of this question is kind of in line of I don't plan on staying there for very much longer. And I don't want to be there for very much longer. I don't want to be the kind of guy to grab and go, but at the same time, I think it's the right move. I don't think anybody's going to be able to take me seriously as an operations manager without a formal education with it.

I'm going to push back on that. Tell me the two or three things, and we've got to do this quick, two things, three things that make an operations manager effective on the role. Awareness. I would say awareness. Know the product, know the process, and people skills. Okay. You know what?

I want you to hold tight with us, Jordan. We're going to go to a break, and we're going to come back. We're going to dig into your scenario. This is the news, guys. You need to stop and listen. The Fed decided not to raise interest rates. That means you've got a small window of time before rates rise again. Here's the deal. Most people are paying too much interest on their largest expense, their home.

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That's 888-562-6200 or churchillmortgage.com. Hello, America. You are listening to The Dave Ramsey Show. And before we went to break, we were talking to Jordan in Yakima, and we were digging in and understanding about him. He's got a career question, a conundrum of how long he should stay somewhere. And, Ken, you were getting ready to dive in and to give him some guidance. Yeah, well, Jordan, the question was I approached my leader about them reimbursing me or paying for my business degree.

But the moral question is I don't plan to be there very long. And I ultimately want to be in operations. And so no one's going to take me seriously if I don't have a degree. And I will tell you, you're absolutely wrong. As we went to the break, I asked him, Chris, what are the two, three qualities that make somebody effective in operations? And Jordan, you gave us the answers. And the reality is, is that you don't need a business degree to move into the operations field. You just simply need to have the skill set and the connections to get that opportunity to get into operations. So let's address the first

question. Number one, you do not need to take this man up on his offer. You should not have asked him to pay for your business degree if you're not going to be there because that's just not right. So I'm glad you called and asked. Your gut is correct. That would be very shady, and you shouldn't do it. Number two doesn't matter because you need to begin to talk to people who are in operations, who are in roles that are similar to what you've envisioned, and sitting down with them, Chris, over coffee and over lunch and saying, hey, tell me how you got here.

Here's what I've done. Here's my body of work. I don't have a business degree, but I want to move into this, and you might have to make a couple of entry steps, but you can get in that role. You do not need a college degree to be successful in operations we're seeing this all across the country right now right because of our current economic situation where there are more jobs open in america right now than there are people who are unemployed we're even seeing fortune 100 companies lower the requirements for entry including including college degrees. So I would tell him he needs to exhaust those other avenues and use the proximity principle.

That's how you get opportunity. No, I think you're right. I think we tend to, Coleman, we tend to have this mindset that education is the required. And I think it's more about understanding, having experience, but also connections. That's right. That puts us on pace to be able to do the things we need to do. Okay, I'm going back. I've got Patrick in New York on the line and has a question for us.

Patrick, how can we help you? Hey, guys. I'm calling in because I have $18,000 in student loan debt right now. I'm going into my final year in college. I'm studying computer engineering. I have a, I'm interning at a startup right now. I've been with the company for about seven months and I have about 8,200 invested across different ETFs and different industries. I read Dave Ramsey's book and it helped me pay off most of my credit card debt.

I had about $6,000 in credit card debt. I paid it off, and now I'm just off of the student loan debt. And I raised about $500 in my emergency fund, and it's growing at 2% annually. So right now, besides the startup, I have, uh, two other jobs. I take care of my mom who doesn't work. So I'm working as a home attendant to take care of her. And I'm also working, uh, on the weekends, uh, as a food runner, uh, at a, at a restaurant in Soho. And so, um, you know, I'm working these different jobs, trying to save up as much as I can. And, um, you know can. And one of my biggest questions right now is,

should I pay off my remaining student loan debt, the $18,000, with the funds that I have in my investment account? Or should I wait until I graduate, maybe find a better job, and then pay that debt off once I get a better-paying job. Okay. So, Patrick, what is your income annually right now? So, it's looking about $50,000 to $63,000 a year, but I am paying a lot of rent. I'm paying about $1,475 a month, so that's about $17,000 a year. So, it comes down to about $30,000 to $45,000 before taxes.

Right. So, you know, because I work at a restaurant on the weekends, that income is kind of seasonal. For example, like some weekends I won't really make a lot of money. I'll probably make like $100,000 every weekend. On a good weekend, I'll probably make like $300,000. Right. And, you know, I'm getting paid $25 an hour at the startup.

And then $18, sorry, yeah, $18 working for, well, working to take care of my mom. Are you cash flowing school? Are you cash flowing your school right now? Or do you have more student loans you're taking out? No, so I completely stopped taking out loans.

Going forward, I'm only going to pay school in cash. So I just have that $18,000 to pay off. Okay, okay. Well, number one, I want to commend your work ethic. You are definitely someone that's out there hustling, and you're focused on what it is you're trying to accomplish. I like the idea with you working and having your income coming in of you looking. This money that you've invested, that you have tucked away, you know, that money, you allow that to continue to grow. But I want you to be mindful of, as you complete school school to start to attack your debt snowball smallest to

biggest like you said you've already attacked some debt i want you to be mindful of that and look at this 18 000 as the next step and then once you do that then you start to build your bigger emergency fund so that's the path that's following the baby steps and i think those steps will lead you to the direction you want to go yeah this is a hard-working young man oh he is hard-working he's hustling. He is. And I like the fact that he's also taking care of his mom. That's right.

You know, so his mind and his priorities are in the right place, which I really like. Okay, Ken, I got a question for you here via social media. This one's from James from the Ramsey Baby Steps community. And he says, I'm retiring in a few years at the age 41. And I'm looking at starting another career. I'm currently enrolled in college. I'm looking at either a career in accounting or finance. Any suggestions on how to make a good decision?

Yeah, the first thing, James, that you need to do is get around people that are in accounting or finance positions. So I would start with identifying several accounting positions. Maybe there's only one. Maybe there's two or three. So do you want to be a CPA? Are you interested in that? We're using the language here that you use in your question. You're interested.

And so that's a wonderful place to be in. And you're retiring at 41. Hey, hey, we're not in a panic here. So I like this. So let's identify multiple roles slash positions, titles, in these areas of accounting and finance. Now, once we've identified those, what you want to do is twofold. First thing is let's look and see what's out there. Let's look and see what's out there in your area

that you might be interested in applying for. And that gives you a good idea of the type of experience they're looking for, qualifications, and beyond. Now, then you use the proximity principle. There's a reason why I wrote a book on it, Chris, because it actually works. And the proximity principle says in order to do what I want to do, I've got to be around people that are doing it and in places where it is happening. So step two of this homework assignment for James is now that I know the roles I'm interested in,

who do I know or who do I know that knows somebody that is successful in these roles? And Chris, this will cost you time and lunch or coffee. And you sit with these people, you show up with an attitude of

humility and hunger. Hey, I want to be where you are. I'm 41. I'm retired. They're immediately going to go, wow. And you say, look, I'm here to learn from you. I want to know how you got where you are. I've found out that these are the requirements that I need to kind of know, do to be hired. And so I'm looking at multiple ways to get these certifications or qualifications.

What are your thoughts on those things and those paths? And then what does it take to win in this role? I like that question. Now, here's what's going to happen. That's going to be a wealth of information. But then the final question, hey, don't ask them for a job. Don't ask them for anything other than who else do you think I need to know? What are some places that I need to go to learn more?

And people will feel tremendously valued when you do that because you're asking them their opinion. When they feel valuable, you have provided value to them. And that's the exercise. And what's going to happen is James is going to get clarity and confirmation. Yeah. No, that's fantastic. That is absolutely, it will help pave the way and it's going to help you learn more. Uh, as you talk to these people that have been doing it, uh, that's excellent advice.

Listen, Ken's got his book proximity principle. If you've not picked up a copy, you need to because young people and old, all of us out there want to work in a career that we truly love. And it's your opportunity. You can get more information on Ken's book at Ken Coleman.com. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Hello, America.

You are listening to The Dave Ramsey Show. I'm Chris Hogan filling in for Dave. And look, I'm joined in studio with Ken Coleman. And so we are taking your calls on career and money. We're having a blast. Ken, how are you? Well, I'm telling you, we're having a big time here this summer at Ramsey Solutions. You know, a lot going on. Moving to the new mothership location. Celebrated that as a team last night. Can't wait for all those people out there listening to come visit us there. Kids are busy. We did our beach vacation. I mean, you know, I guess I could complain, but nobody wants to hear that. I'd have to think hard about something.

Yeah. No, we've got a lot going on. And the premiere at the new building was absolutely amazing. I can't wait for you all to see it. I will make sure I put out some photos to let you get a glimpse of it, but you're going to be hearing more about it and seeing more about it as time comes. So we're excited and we got a lot going on, but I want to let you know, we have a smart conference in Sacramento. That's going to be coming up in November 16th. And we are very, very excited. If you want more traction with your marriage, your parenting, your money, your career, leadership, or personal development, I want you to check out the lineup. We've got teen and millennial expert, Anthony O'Neill. We've got the inspiring John O'Leary.

Marriage and relationship expert, Dr. Les Parrott. Dr. Meg Meeker, the country's leading authority on parenting, teens, and children's health. Ken Coleman will be there speaking on career development. And I'll be there, and of course, Dave will be there. And it's just an incredible event. Again, we're going to be in Sacramento, California, November 16th at the Golden One Center. You need to check it out. Tickets for this all-day event start at $59.

I can't believe they're that cheap. But tickets start at $59. And before we sell out, I want you to reserve your spot now by going to DaveRamsey.com or by calling 888-22-PEACE. Ken, I don't know about you, but I absolutely enjoy the Smart Conference. It's an incredible day. The energy in the room is absolutely electric. And the reason it is is because people are there for breakthrough. And there's something about expectancy that creates electricity. The crowd is there.

They want to learn. And as a result, it's just an unbelievable environment from the stage. You know this. And then, of course, we're doing this event with true friends, not just the Rams personalities, but we're doing this with friends of the organization, friends of Dave's. And so we actually have a wonderful time behind the stage, you know, at lunch when we do Q&A, we have a dinner afterwards. And so it really is what we like to call meaningful work. It's meaningful in so many ways. It really is.

And I tell you, it's amazing to see as the speakers are not on stage, but we're sitting out watching each other, taking notes and encouraging each other. It's an incredible time. So again, you've got an opportunity to come see it. Smart Conference, November 16th. We will be in Sacramento, California, beautiful area, and you can get tickets for $59. So get on those, check it out, and come hang. All right, I've got Lindsay in Sacramento. Speaking of Sacramento, Lindsay, how are you? Very well, gentlemen.

Thank you both for taking my call. Oh, thank you. How can we help you? Should I prioritize pension rates in my government job search? I work in California government. Agencies vary from 2% to 2.7% contribution rates per year. The agency I currently work at only has a 2% per year contribution. Let me ask you this. I would say, based on, do you love the job you're doing?

The job I'm currently doing now does not have advancement. But there is advancement, though, in the agency where I work, just in a different department. But, again, I'll only be getting that 2%. Well, I would say this, and I'm asking about that because, obviously, how much you enjoy what you do will determine your level of success. And so what I would say is, Lindsay, you can look at the math on that if all things are considered equal. And well, absolutely, I'm going to go with the one that's at 2.7 versus the 2%. But all that to say, even if it was at 2.7 or 3 and you didn't enjoy it, well, that means you're not going to do it long. It's going to be sucking the life out of you. So it's more a matter of focusing on your passion, right, Mr. Coleman? That's right.

And then moving forward. Yeah, because in this situation, this question is basically steeped in money. Okay, so this is a money play. I mean, I don't really enjoy the work, but there is an agency where I could move up. So it sounds to me as though there is a ladder that she sees, which I think is good. But to your point, anybody working in state or federal government, and I get a lot of these calls at the Ken Coleman Show, I'm always saying, have you, just let me mess with you for a little bit. And they laugh, and I say, have you looked at similar work? Forget job title for a moment. Right.

But let's talk about function and role. Right. Have you looked at what that looks like in the private sector? I mean, just for the heck of it. Yeah. Because I'll tell you something. You know this because of your work with people with retirement. There's something about the federal or state government pension plan and benefits and all that that really make people feel super safe.

And then they feel very smart. And I would just encourage anybody, not just Lindsey, who does state and federal government work. I'm not anti-government. Okay? I'm not anti-government, okay? I'm not. However, I would look to the private sector for transferable skills where you can take your skills and experience and look for similar roles. Or if there's not a similar role, who cares? How can you take your skills and your experience and what you love to do, and let's see if we can find that in the private sector.

I would tell you that's almost always a better situation in the sense of a ladder. See, I'm all about people moving up the ladder. Well, it's hard to move up the ladder in state agencies. It really is. No, you're absolutely right because there it tends to be more like a college environment, a college professor, where it's about the tenure and the length of time. So I agree, Ken. I think having market awareness is a good thing, understanding your value,

and being able to learn to do the math. And, again, it doesn't hurt to be able to compare so you can look. And, again, we want to compare apples to apples and be aware of what we're doing and why it matters so much. So great question. All right, I've got Aaron on the line from Traverse City, Michigan. Aaron, how are you? Hey, good.

How are you guys doing? Oh, we're doing fantastic. How can we help you today? Awesome. Well, Ken, you were talking about moving up the ladder. I just started a new job about two or three weeks ago, so that's exciting. Yeah, congratulations. Thank you, yeah.

My wife is due with our second child on August 7th, and the new job is an hour and a half from our current home. So we've got a lot of things going on. Long commute, obviously, to work right now, and we're just trying to figure out our house is listed. We're planning on moving closer. We've had a little bit of difficulty getting activity on it. And I'm debating about whether or not it makes sense to try and find a

rental, maybe short term that's closer to work. So we'd have both our mortgage payment and the rental. But based on the numbers I've run, we can definitely afford it. And then maybe move after that. I don't know if that makes sense or what you guys think. Yeah, I understand what you're saying, but I will tell you, I would sacrifice in the short term. Even though you can afford it doesn't mean it's the right decision. I will tell you your brain is right. Moving closer to this job is the right play.

And, look, this is the real estate market. I'd talk to your real estate agent and say, what can we do to move this house? What can we do to get some foot traffic, some open houses? Maybe we need to lower the price. Maybe you need to fix the yard up. So the money that you would spend in this idea of a rental while you're waiting for the house to be sold, I would think about putting that money into making that house, Chris Hogan, more sellable

and then move much closer because I'm going to tell you right now, that 90-minute commute will eat your soul for breakfast. I mean, it'll kill you. It's rough. Especially with baby number two coming along. So he's doing the right thing. I think so. I would not rent.

No, I don't. And take on two payments. Signing that lease, Ken, all it's going to do is increase the obligation, which right now, guess what? You gear up in your head, and even as you're driving, you're going to tell yourself, this is not forever. Yeah. Right? Let me tell you this. I want to add something.

I like the rental after we sell the house. Yes. Sell the house, and then let's exhale. We got baby number two showed up. I got a new job. We're moving to a new locale. How about renting for a year, and just let's find the best place, best schools, best neighborhood. Stacey and I, Chris, you know this.

Stacey and I, when we moved back here to Nashville from 11 years in Atlanta to work with Range Solutions, even though I knew we were going to be here long term, we rented for two years. And that was a really good decision because we found the right place. It is. And it allows you to be able to breathe and to do your research and to find out where do we want to live. We don't want to make rush decisions. We want to make clear decisions. That's important to your legacy and to what you're trying to do for yourself and your family.

This is The Dave Ramsey Show. hello america you are listening to the dave ramsey show i'm chris hogan filling in for dave but i'm joined in studio by ken coleman and so ken and i together are taking over the show and taking your calls so guess what if you've got a question on money or career, call us. The number to call is 888-825-5225. Again, that's 888-825-5225. Or you can find us on social at Ramsey Show. There's too many eights in there. There's a lot of eights in there. You've got to do that for 20 years.

And I felt you smirking at me, Coleman. And you knocked me off my game. But we're excited to hear from you, America. And next up, I've got Kenny on the line from Ann Arbor, Michigan. Kenny, how can we help you? Hi, thank you for taking my call today. Yes, what question do you have for Ken? Yeah, I'll try to make it short and sweet.

I started a new job in April, and when I started that new job, they asked verbally for a year requirement, which was not a problem at the time. Well, now I have a month-old baby that is safe at home now, and we are currently on baby step two. With that being said, our take-home pay is $54,000 a year, and I had a couple of things kind of blindside me recently. We have about $250,000 in student loan debt. It was $1,000 a month, but now they just increased it to about $2,000 a month to $3,000. So things have been really tight. I recently just got a new job offer from a company that I used to work for.

My take-home pay would be over $100,000 a year. And they said I could get started in the next couple months. My problem is I could take that job and knock out this debt a lot sooner, but then I wouldn't be keeping my verbal commitment with the company I have now. So I'm just trying to reconcile what I should do. Wow. Kenny, okay, thank you very much for breaking that down. Ken, what do you think?

I want to know the context of the verbal commitment. Can you tell me as specifically as possible what they asked for, how they asked for it? What's the situation? Sure. During my interview, when we sat down, I said, I'm a pilot, so I was sitting with the chief pilot, and he said one of the things that we expect from our pilots is a year commitment. When I took my check ride for the aircraft that I'm currently flying, a year from then is when we expect you to be here for that time. And he emphasized it a couple times, just saying that we want our pilots to be here for a year.

Okay, and you said, I'm in. Yeah. Okay. And then what happened was baby, and you said, I'm in. Yeah. Okay. And then what happened was baby arrived and life just got a little crazy, so I'm trying to... Well, I get it. Listen, let me tell you something.

Let me tell you something. Life does change. Yes. Life does throw curveballs, and I am one who says, you go in and you talk to them, you tell them exactly what you just told us. Hey, I made the commitment, and at the time, I made the commitment based on my financial

realities. Here's how life has changed. That student loan thing was not something you could see coming. And so therefore, at least, unless I'm wrong, Chris, correct me if I'm wrong. Okay, so I would say at the time when you asked me to commit, I made the commitment. My life has changed drastically. This is my new reality and i did not go out searching this uh this company came in and gave me an opportunity i've got this opportunity and i feel badly about the commitment but the reality is i want

you to understand how things have changed and they are dictating this conversation and i am not flaking on you i am telling you i need to take this new job to be able to take care of my family and pay off the loans and the things that i have a responsibility to i feel awful about this would love to keep my word but i need to change my commitment based on the change of circumstances i don't think because one thing you didn't sign a contract and uh i'm not trying to play letter of the law here, but I don't think this is a morality character issue, Chris. I really do not. And I think if they're healthy and they're good people, they're going to go, totally

understand, unless they say, well, we're willing to pay you that to do this role, which I don't think is going to happen. Right. So then I think they're going to release you. And I think if you handle this the right way, clear communication, explain it, show your humility, and that this is bugging you, but you need their, because essentially what you're asking for is their blessing. You don't need it, but that's what you would like. Am I right?

No, Ken, you are right. And I'll tell you this also, Kenny, the way you handled this with them and how you talk about it and you being upfront and direct, I think they will respect that. They may not like it, but they'll respect it. That's right. The other side of it is I want you to dig in and find out how real this $100,000 opportunity is before you go in and really start digging in on this. You've got to find out, are they serious about this? Are they interested in you or are they pursuing you? And I think that open and honest communication can be a game changer that's

exactly right because here's the deal you don't need to feel badly about making the right decision for you and your family let's just weigh this down wait a second yeah i'm gonna i mean let's just be let's just be really practical i'm'm going to stay making $50,000 a year because I made a commitment that I was going to stay here for a year. I'm not going to take double my salary, which is going to help me pay off my student loans and take care of my family. I'm not going to do it. You're going down with a ship you don't need to go down with. That's right. I appreciate it.

This is a man who has a very, very high level of integrity. Oh, absolutely. And so we just want to free you to say, hey, handle this like a gentleman. That's right. Do things the right way here. And if they're honorable, they will let you out of that commitment. That's what I'm saying. No, I think you're right.

And again, having the clear communication, it just starts to change the game and the spirit around it. Next up, I've got Monica in New York. Monica, how are you? Hi, guys. I'm doing good. Thank you so much for taking my call. Well, thank you. It's a pleasure to speak with you. How can we help you today? Okay, so I have two questions real quick. I'm in baby step number three. I'm sorry. I'm working out of breath. Okay. So I want to start saving for a down payment for a three-family house. I want a three-family house because I'm self-employed, I'm a housekeeper, and I want to invest in this house so that house, when it pays itself,

when I rent the two apartments, because I will be living in the first four, and then the two apartments I won't rent. That's the idea. And then I want to be able to create money so I can retire with dignity. However, the few people that I have told this information, they say it's too crazy. I don't know. It's too crazy and it's a financial disaster. What do you guys think?

Is this too crazy? And if it's too crazy, do you guys think I should start with something smaller? Okay, so you've already battled, Monica, and gotten yourself out of debt? Yes. Okay, how much debt did you pay off? I paid about $15,000. Okay. Yeah, $15,000 in the last, I would say, eight months. Eight, nine months. Okay, I'm proud of you. And so with this multifamily home that you're looking at, how much do you think that's going to cost? Well, the market is around $500,000.

Okay, and what is your household income? $50,000. Okay, All right. And so you're looking at this, you're looking to buy this piece of property for it to function as a rental property, but also your primary residence. So in looking at this mathematically, right, a $500,000 property, that is not going to work on that income. Okay? income okay so but having it as a goal for something that you're looking to do really simply then means you're going to have to really be focused on where what you're saving how you're bringing in extra money how you're putting it off i don't think there's anything wrong with having a goal but we've got to acknowledge ken in my opinion what we're willing to sacrifice to reach that goal that's exactly right and here's the thing too you know when you get an idea what the goal is and

then you get a couple of different approaches to okay okay, this is one way to get to this goal, this is another way, at some point you have to look at all the ways you might get there and go, now, which one is going to be the best one? And then here's the deal. If things change, because they do, how much time am I willing to wait? We put a question to everybody on the planet we go you willing to do what it takes the instinct answer is absolutely i'm willing to do what it takes i think the question that fits here to this scenario and to all of us is are you willing to wait as long as it takes because if the answer to that is yes it changes the approach to the goal it changes our ability to be patient while we persevere.

See, perseverance gets all the glory, Chris, in the movies and the motivational talks, but it's patience that's the game changer. And I think that will adjust everybody's approach and even your strategy if you're willing to be patient. No, that's a good word. Okay, listen, I want to thank James Childs and our associate producer, Kelly Daniel. And I want to thank you, America, for all your calls. I want to thank Ken Coleman for taking the time to join us. Seriously, you can learn more about Ken and the Ken Coleman Show by going to kencoleman.com.

I want to thank all of you for your calls. It's been a pleasure to be with you. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. This is James Childs, producer of the Dave Ramsey Show. Once again, you made the Dave Ramsey Show one of the top five most downloaded podcasts last year. To get your daily dose of motivation and inspiration, subscribe today.