The Ramsey Show - App - Maximizing Your 401(k) Options to Build Wealth (Hour 3)

Episode Date: March 25, 2019

The show about you

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I am Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us. Brent and Suzanne start off this hour in Australia. Hey, guys, how are you? Good, Dave. How are you? How are you?

Better than I deserve. So calling all the way from Australia to do your debt-free scream. Yes, we all are. That's right. Love it. How much have you guys paid off? $196,000. Phenomenal. And how long did that take?

Four years and 11 months. Very cool. And your range of income during that time? We went from $113,000 up to $194,000. Great. What do you guys do for a living? I'm a social worker. And I'm a cattle nutritionist.

All right. Very good. Good. What kind of debt was the $196,000? We had some car loans and credit cards, air conditioner, medical bills, student loans, and a mortgage. You paid off your house. We did. I'm talking to weird people.

We actually sold our house in the process. Do what now? We actually sold the house in the process. Okay. All right. So where are you living? We live in Toowoomba, Queensland. Right.

But in a rental or what? Oh, yeah. We're in a rental house. So our debt snowball started by us selling our house, and we put that money to start the snowball. Gotcha. What did the house sell for? It sold for $110. Okay, good.

Very cool. So what started you guys on this journey four years and 11 months ago? Well, we actually went through financial peace a couple of years before that, and I had, during the process, I had a little bit of an accident, and we got lost in the process. And about the four years, 11 months ago, we were fairly desperate with our finances, Dave, and we couldn't actually figure out how to get it all done. I'm a little bit of a budget nerd, and I had spreadsheets and spreadsheets, and I was looking on the website, and I decided to call one of the financial coaches that you guys have on there.

I put my name in, and he called me, and a fellow named Greg Pair, your services called us, and he walked us through your baby steps and helped us with accountability. Okay. I've known Greg a long time. and helped us with accountability. Okay. I've known Greg a long time. He's a good guy. Yeah, well, we swear by him. I bet, I bet.

He kept us on track. It was so helpful to have somebody to be accountable to, and he would pray with us, and he just helped us the whole way. Yeah, it's kind of like your own financial personal trainer. It was. Yeah, very cool kind of like your own financial personal trainer. Absolutely. Very cool. Well, congratulations. How does it feel going from being desperate to being debt-free?

Amazing. It is just freedom, actually. How did you guys get connected with us in Australia? Well, we were actually living in the Texas Panhandle at the time. We moved here three years ago. I see. Okay, so in the process you end up in Australia. I got you.

Right. In fact, that was actually moving was part of our why. Okay. So what are you doing in Australia? I mean, why did you go to Australia? I'm curious. Well, so we wanted to go to Australia, or actually, we came to Australia for part of my work, but also to serve on the mission field.

Ah, okay. All right. I thought that's where we were going. That's why I wanted to make sure I wasn't just guessing. Okay, good. Good for you guys. Well, okay. All right. I thought that's where we were going. That's why I wanted to make sure I wasn't just guessing. Okay, good. Good for you guys. Well, congratulations. What a great, great story. What do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is?

Well, for us, it was having that accountability, just knowing when to ask for help, knowing that you need help, and getting someone to keep you on track. That was so helpful for us. That's a big deal. Yeah. Good.

What about you, Brent? Well, I think the budget is a big deal, and I think the envelope system has helped us a lot. Yeah. But then I think accountability is a huge deal for us. Gotcha. I think also, Dave, just faith is a huge deal. It seemed like every time we trusted and had faith that Jesus met us there.

Well, God will show off when you do that. He'll show up and show off, won't he? Yeah. Absolutely. Good for you guys. Funny story about the envelope. So in Australia, the $1 are coins, so we had an abundance of coins, and they would rip through the envelope. So we had to switch to the Ziploc baggie system. I gotcha. Hey, that'll work, too. I like it. That's perfect.

Well, thank you guys so much. We're going to send you a copy of Chris Hogan's retire-inspired book. We want that to be the next chapter in your story, that you go ahead and finish this journey and become millionaires and outrageously generous along the way. Obviously, you're giving your lives on the mission field, and that's an important part of this story as well. So congratulations to you guys.

Very well done. We're proud of you story as well. So congratulations to you guys. Very well done. We're proud of you. Amen. Thank you. Thank you. Brent and Suzanne in Australia, $196,000 paid off in four years and 11 months, making $113,000 up to $194,000. Count it down.

Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! It's a family affair. That's how it's done. Wow. Love that. Very, very cool.

Very cool. Love it. Excellent. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Thomas is on Facebook.com slash Dave Ramsey. Dave, I'm watching your real estate home buying video in Financial Peace University, and you say save 20% down. Is that the same for a military veteran?

Yes, Thomas, I don't recommend the VA loan for anyone. Obviously, it's only available for veterans because the VA loan is a more expensive loan than an FHA loan, which is a more expensive loan than a Fannie Mae loan. So of the three conforming traditional mortgage types, FHA, VA, or Fannie Mae. Fannie Mae is the cheapest. Now, it should be that the veteran's loan as a benefit to a veteran is cheaper than anything out there. It ought to be a benefit, but it's not. It's more expensive. It's a higher interest rate, higher costs, higher everything. The only advantage, and it's not an advantage, it's a trick, with a VA loan is it's the only

loan you can get in with nothing down. And then all you do is get further in debt and buy crap you can't afford. So it's just not a fan of the VA loan system at all. Huge fan of the military. Respect what you guys have done and what you do, and thank you for serving your country. But we, the taxpayers, should pay you back for doing that with something better than a VA loan. They suck. Hope I wasn't unclear.

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And our 4G LTE network provides the fastest internet speeds like more expensive carriers. We operate on the largest GSM network in the U.S. to ensure you receive reliable coverage virtually anytime, anywhere. Plus, you can keep your same phone and number and add multiple lines to save more. We're so confident you'll love PURE TALK USA that we invite you to try our service risk-free. Visit puretalkusa.com or call 844-862-3677. Enter promo code SAVEDAVE and receive 50% off your first month. That's puretalkusa.com. Anchorage, Alaska is calling. Jonathan, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, thanks for taking my call, Dave.

I have a question. So my wife and I are going to be finishing up Baby Step 3. So we're going to be starting babies at the end of the three. So we're going to be starting babies at the end of the month. And we're going to be starting babies at four. And I actually just got a new job where I got a raise and everything. And I was looking at their retirement plan. And they offer a 401k where they give me a 3% just for being employed there. And they match up to 5%, 100%, up to 5%.

But then they also have a 403B and Roth options. I was kind of curious. I know you say 15%. I was trying to figure out what would be the best way to put in all 15%. Gotcha. Okay. And the 401K with the matches, it has a Roth option as well? Well, I'm looking at the paperwork, and it says 401k as one retirement plan, and then they have another one that says 403b with Roth option.

Okay. Usually, if they have a Roth option on one, they would have it on the other. Okay. other so okay so let's walk through this the first thing is when you get to baby step four after you have your baby step three complete of three to six months of expenses for emergencies you take your household income times 0.15 15 so uh what is your income and what is your wife's income um it's 75 and i'm the only my wife just quit her job uh we're having a baby at the end of april and she's not going back yeah no she's not going back okay all right and so we need to put aside eleven thousand two hundred fifty dollars so somewhere around a thousand dollars a month all right and um the first and best option is a Roth 401k with a match.

Okay. The second best option is a regular 401k with a match. Now, the 403b could be in this mix, okay? But my guess is the 403b, usually they have bad insurance-type products, annuities and those kinds of things as your options for investing there. And I'm looking for good growth stock mutual fund options like we talk about all the time. And I'm suspicious that you won't have those available in the 403B. So I'm going to just deal with the 401K.

Now, let's say that your options, the mutual funds that are available in your 401K are medium. They're not really bad, but they're not great. Okay? Then I would put in the 3% and the 5% to get the full match. And then past the match, I might go do my own Roth IRA off to the side. And that's going to get you about there. So the goal is by adding all this together, we want to get you to about $1,000 a month, about $11,250 a year,

close to $12,000 a year, something like that, going into these programs. But yeah, we definitely want to do the Roth 401k with a match as our first choice. Regular 401k is a second choice up to the match. Past the match, I'm probably going to do Roth. Unless your mutual fund options are amazingly good inside the 401k, I'm probably going to do Roth. Unless your mutual fund options are amazingly good inside the 401K, I'm probably going to do a Roth IRA with my own mutual fund selection because I can pick out better mutual funds maybe than your 401K has.

So look at the track records on your long-term track records on the mutual funds inside your 401K. It might be that you just end up putting it all in the 401k and just go, you know, I need 15% of my income going in to my 401k. And that's going to get you all those matches, and it's Roth, and you've got good mutual funds. And we always suggest, and my personal investments are one-fourth in each of these, growth, growth and income, aggressive growth, growth and international spread across those

evenly and that's what i'm always looking for good mutual funds long-term track records are five years ten years and longer nothing that's like one year two year three year track record i don't care about that steven is in pasadena california hi steven how are you hey dave i'm doing good good so. So I have a question, if you can explain because my brother, I've been talking to him about your program, and he says, yeah, that's all fine and stuff, but I don't

see the positive in having a zero credit because then how am I going to buy a house? How am I going to be able to do all these things without having a credit score? And I completely am 100% all in on your program and everything, but I want to talk him into it because I know they're having some struggles with things, but at the same time, I don't know how to explain that.

Let's start with the idea that he is arguing with financial advice and he's broke. That's pretty stupid. So let's just start there. I mean, this guy, he really, you know, if you hire a personal trainer and they tell you what to do, you ought to do it. So let's start with the idea that credit score hadn't been a blessing to this guy. He's broke.

He's having financial problems. So his plan really sucks. We need to start with that idea. Now, then we can back up and say, okay, what is the technical aspects of this? Buy a house and all these other things you said? He said, well, all these other things are your problem. You pay cash for everything but a house, and I'd rather you pay cash for a house, but zero chance ever that you need to have any credit card debt, any

student loan debt, or any car debt, or any debt other than a house if you want to be a millionaire. All these millionaires we've studied, all these not broke people like your brother, but all these people who have money that we have studied for 30 years have avoided debt as their primary way to become wealthy because that allowed them then, without any payments, to invest. So you save up and pay cash for your trips, your Christmas, your college. You save up and pay cash for your cars, your boats, your toys. You save up and pay cash.

Like Grandma said, if you ain't got the money, don't buy it. And the money means you need to have all the money to buy the item and it doesn't chase you home now how to deal with the house without a credit score then you can actually get a mortgage you would have to do what's called manual underwriting and not a lot of mortgage companies know how to do that churchill mortgage is one that does know how to do it and there are a few others but a lot of them are just so stupid the only thing they know how to the only loans they know how to make are fico loans and they look at the fico number and they make the loan it's stated income loans and they're the type of loans that are disastrous but that's the way the

industry is set up so but you can get a manually underwritten loan and that means that they can't just look at the number because there's not a that they can't just look at the number because there's not a number they actually have to look at the person and verify that you have a job and verify that you have a down payment and verify that you can make the payments based on your income ratio to your payments and they actually do underwriting and like we used to do when we first started in when i first started the real estate business 35 years. We actually, mortgage companies did real underwriting back then. They didn't just look at one number and make the loan, and that number being the FICO score. So the answer is, yes, you can get a house.

No, you can't get a lot of other stuff, but you shouldn't anyway unless you pay for it. And if you're going to stay in debt, you are not following the shortest track to becoming a millionaire. So that's the answer to his equation. The other thing you've got to remember is this. I find myself in the early days of this show, like you are, Stephen, arguing with people. It's not worth it. Just go live your life.

You can't talk stupid out of some people, even if they're in your family. They're just going to be stupid. So you go live your life. You're not going to argue him into anything. He's broke and has strong opinions about money. How interestingly stupid is that? So he's arrogant. And he's going to have problems until he decides he's gonna listen to someone who

knows more than he knows which includes you by the way you know more than he knows so i'm sorry but that's just i've had these conversations with people like this for years and i just quit having them it's a waste of good energy so i'm not i can't talk you into being smart. You've got to decide you're going to get smart. And then I can help you get there. But I can't just club you over the head. And he's not, he just wanted to argue. He did not really want to learn. And so I don't think you can argue him into it.

You're probably going to be really frustrated trying. So I probably wouldn't try. I probably wouldn't have any more arguments with him. But you do whatever you want. That gives you the tools to do it either way. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. Do you know who is a prime target for identity theft? Your children. Kids have no debts or credit history.

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Call them at 800-356-4282 or visit Zander.com. It's just the smarter, more affordable way to protect your entire family. And it's the only plan I provide to my team. Zander.com or 800-356-4282. Justin is with us in Princeton, New Jersey. Hi, Justin. How are you? Focused and not finished, Dave. I hear you, man. How are you? Focused and not finished, Dave. I hear you, man.

How can I help? I'm trying to figure out what to do with my 15% to invest. Right now, I work for a company that invests 25% of our pay into a trust that we can't contribute to. Okay. My wife has a pension system, so she can't contribute more than she has, and we both max out our Roth IRAs. Good. That doesn't hit our 15%.

So my next step would, I would assume, be doing just investing in mutual funds. I assume neither one of you have a 401K or a 403B in addition to the stuff your company does. That is correct okay yeah you're you've run out of you've run out of rope so yeah you right you know you you fill up both roth iras and what's your household income uh approximately 120 000 a year okay and so you need to be putting about 17 away give or take and you've put away 11 so you're about six about 500 bucks a month going into some mutual funds probably what i would do in that case is just do uh something like an s&p 500 no load because you can do the four types we talk about but they sell the stocks inside of them ever so

often and you might have taxes ongoing the s&p no load will have a low turnover ratio so you won't have any taxes ongoing much in other words it grows it'll grow without tax there's enough money in there that will match what i currently owe my home should i pull the money out and pay my house off at that point or do i keep the money in the account in in what account in the smp account that you're talking about oh once it builds up to that yes hmm that's a good question because there'd be no penalty on it and your only taxes would be at capital gains rate on the growth so um i think that would depend on the balance of the other accounts. So here's the way I look at that.

This is retirement. We're labeling this S&P retirement. It's not a sidebar. For purposes of doing Baby Step 4, you and I are calling this a retirement account, right? Right. Although it's not technically. Okay. So for purposes of Baby Step 4, it is. Now, the way I tell people to pay, how much would I pay off your house

out of your retirement accounts? I would not drain your retirement accounts. So let's say that, I'll just use an example. Let's say you had $300,000 in your Roth IRAs, and there was $200,000 in this account, and your house debt was $150,000. Yeah, I probably would. But if this is about all you got, because the other accounts haven't grown much i wouldn't i wouldn't take you down

to almost nothing for retirement in order to pay off your house i never do okay my work the one that they put into it they put in 25 of my annual pay should i still be doing 15 you think into retirement yeah because you don't have any control over that. Okay. They're not taking 25% out of your check, are they? No. No, that's just a bonus. It's like a pension-type thing.

Okay. Thank you very much. Yeah, you're going to be very wealthy. You're well on your way. You're going to have a lot of money from all these different sources that we're talking about. Very, very well done. Good job, man. Kicking it. Kicking it.

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Use Ramsey as a promo code at blinds.com. Brittany is in Utah. I'm planning a trip overseas. My debit card is a daily limit of $2,000. I'm worried I may exceed this. What do you suggest I do for funds while I'm there? You can do a couple things. You could open another debit card.

You could talk with your bank about increasing your limit. I have lots of times when we're traveling,'re over a two thousand dollar limit so my debit card my personal debit card as a part of our negotiation with our bank is to raise the limit on it um and you could do that and of course the other thing you can do is uh just have some cash just have some cash carry Just have some cash. Carry some cash. Or old-fashioned traveler's checks, if you've ever done that. That kind of a thing.

So I generally do all three. Some guy tweeted today, he goes, I'm kind of nervous about having one debit card because if it gets cut off, you know, it's the same thing with credit cards. It can be cut off. There are algorithms on credit cards and debit cards now at the banks to avoid identity theft and to avoid fraud, which the bank is responsible

for in either case. You don't lose money on a debit card. You don't lose money on a credit card if there's identity theft and fraud action on it. So their algorithms are built to where any unusual activity on the card at all shuts it down immediately. And if you've noticed, as the identity theft problem has increased,

the sensitivity of those algorithms have increased. Twenty years ago, you couldn't get a credit card shut down. Now you can get one shut down just by going across the state, and they go, oh, you bought something in Memphis, but you live in Nashville? Boom, shut her down. You know what I mean? It's just like any little thing shuts the stupid thing down. So, yeah, I travel with at least two debit cards, one on my business, one on my personal account, in my standard wallet.

But I also have other accounts that have debit cards on them. And Sharon has her, too, so that we're not stuck out there with fraud. And I always do the fraud. You know, you have to let them know you're traveling. You have to get your bank's permission now. We are going to Mexico. Those are not fraudulent charges. We are going to be in wherever, Europe or wherever it is we're going, right?

So, yeah, you need to. There's actually most of the online banking now has an ability for you to notify them so that the algorithm doesn't kick you out. So it's like weird. But it's all as a result of all this theft that is out there. And these banks are tired of paying these bills when these thieves steal from them. And you noticed you didn't have to pay it in either case. Brian is with us in Charlotte, North Carolina. Hey, Brian, how are you?

Hey, Dave, doing great. How are you today? Better than I deserve. What's up? Hey, thanks for taking my call. My question is around a rental property that I have. I had a house before my wife and I got married, kept it as a rental when we bought our primary.

We currently owe $100,000 on it. It's worth about $165,000. It's rented out now, has a positive cash flow over the mortgage and taxes of about $400 a month. My question to you, you know, our goal is to really get out of debt. Should I keep that rental around and apply the profits to our primary mortgage or just sell it out right now, take the proceeds, apply it to our primary mortgage, and use that to help pay off our primary house. What do you owe on your primary?

$246,000. What's your household income? Right at $200,000 a year. Okay. Well, you've got a great income. So here's the thing. If you've always desired to have rental property and you always wanted rentals, I love rentals, I love rentals, I want to have this house as a rental.

That isn't how you ended up with this house as a rental. You ended up with it as a rental by default, not by plan. But if it has converted in your mind and you always wanted to own rentals, you probably could get both of these paid off reasonably soon, given your household income i'm guessing you have no other debt uh we do have some other debts we're uh on track to pay off student loans this year we have about 30 000 remaining um we're hitting them heavy with pretty much everything we got so we're expected to have that paid off fairly soon

the only variable in the discussion that says maybe you keep it if you love it is your high income. Because you should be able to plow through all of this real quickly. That's the only reason. If your income was $50,000 less, I'd have you sell it in a heartbeat. I'm probably selling it because it's mythology that it's actually cash flowing $400 after vacancy and repairs. You're not really cash flowing 400. You're probably breaking even. So, yeah, I'm probably getting rid of it.

But you make enough if you really, really love it and you really want to own that piece of property as a rental long term. Just lean into it. Get them all paid off. Get everything paid off as quick as you can. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. The last thing I want you to feel is buyer's remorse, especially when you offered thousands more on a new home to win a bidding war. If I've taught you anything, it's that blindly throwing money at a problem is a stupid plan and something you'll regret for years. The key to avoiding this rookie mistake is to call

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A bank is a place where they lend you an umbrella in fair weather and ask for it back when it begins to rain. That's true. And you know why banks have drive-thru tellers, right? So cars can see their real owners. Okay. Bada-bum-tsh. Anyway, there you go.

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Hi, Melissa. How are you? I'm doing great, Dave. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. What's up in your world? Awesome. Me too. Well, I want to say thank you for what you have done. My family, we will be eternally grateful to God for what you have done and how you changed our family tree forever. Thank you. And my question is, we have worked through all of the baby steps, and we are on baby step seven. And the only thing, my husband, he used to have life insurance

through a previous employer, but he changed employers. And so we were wanting to go out and get life insurance that is not through an employer. So if he does change jobs, then we just want something that would stick with us. Right. But we weren't sure how much to do. And we know that you advocate 10 to 12 times. But we're worth $2.2 million, and we have zero debt and are in our early 30s he makes 250 000 a year and then you add in bonus of 100 000 and then rental property income that puts our household income at 400 000 wow so we weren't sure if we needed to go out and get $4 million worth of life insurance.

Okay. Well, to start with, he's not earning $400,000. Your household income is $400,000. That's true. So you wouldn't lose all of that if we lost him, God forbid. So the thing is this. It sounds like you possibly are self-insured. The way you ask yourself the question is fairly simple,

is if something happened to him with no life insurance, would the income off of the investments out of the $2.2 million be enough to take care of you and your family in a reasonable way? Would the investments create... Okay, so if something happened to him, does that mean that 401Ks and pensions, like I would immediately have access to that? No.

Or is that something I have to wait? You would have trouble getting a hold of anything that's in the retirement account without paying some taxes on it. Now, if it's in his name, it would become an inherited IRA, and there would be no penalties, but you'd have taxation on it as it came out. And so is the majority of this in 401Ks? $700,000 is in 401Ks in pension from his previous employer. And what is your personal residence worth?

It is worth about $350,000. So let's say that you had $2 million, not counting your house, give or take you do, that could generate some income. Now, what do you and the kids need income-wise to live on if something happened to him today and you did not have his income? So we established, because we went through the legacy journey as well, and we established our baseline budget would be $150,000. Will these investments throw off $150,000?

Yes, sir. I'm sorry? Yes, they would. Okay. Then you probably don't need life insurance, do you? Yes. Yes, that's correct. The reason for life insurance is to replace his income because the family is dependent upon his income to eat and to live their life.

And I think that, you know, let's just use some rough numbers. If we said between the investments and the real estate, it threw off 10%. It may not, but if it threw off 10%, that would be $200,000 a year. And so if it throws off 8%, that's $160,000 a year on the whole package, not counting your house, okay? Because your house isn't throwing off an income. And so if you can live on $ you're there if you want to buy an extra half million dollars on him as young as he is you can you can pick it up it just becomes an extra policy laying around it's just a thing i actually have life insurance on me and there's absolutely ludicrous there's no need for it at all none whatsoever but i got a couple million on me, and the only reason is Sharon wants it.

S-W-I. Sharon wants it. That's the only reason it's there. There's no reason for it. We can afford it. She would rather me buy that term policy than buy her another diamond. And so she's got a couple million extra in cash just going to land on her desk like she needs it. She's going to be, she'd have gobs of money.

You know, she'd be just fine. But, you know, she just wants it, and you can afford it. So if you want to put a half million like that and just call it Melissa Wants It, you know, MWI, that's okay. You know, but when you get up to three million, you probably cancel that, right? Yes, sir. Because you guys are killing it. You know? But when you get up to $3 million, you probably cancel that, right? Yes, sir. Because you guys are killing it. You're doing so good. What's he do for a living?

Well, he graduated from A&M with a petroleum engineering degree, and so he entered into the oil and gas business, and he's now worked his way up to operations manager. Yeah, he's killing it. Wow. That's wonderful. So way up to operations manager. Yeah, he's killing it. Wow. That's wonderful. So proud of y'all. Well, we couldn't definitely have done it without you because before we met you, we had $386,000 in debt from multiple mortgages, student loans, and car payments.

And so we worked those baby steps like you wouldn't believe, and we budgeted as like, I mean, every dollar. Actually, my husband says every cent has a job, and that's why we're just eternally grateful to God for you and what your team has done. And you guys are 30 what, 30 years old? Yeah, my husband's 33, and I'm 36. And it's $2.2 million and 100 debt free yes sir and he makes a couple hundred a year he makes 250 and then and then you got all the investment income yeah correct

the bonus is 100 grand and then 40 000 with rental properties and hopes of getting more rental properties but we're saving up for that yeah so by So by the time you're 60, you guys are going to be in the $20 million range. Right. And according to Excel, because I'm the cautious, I guess, the analytical person in the house, so according to those numbers, yes, we should be good. And our kids will be good if they treat the money correctly. They'll get the money if they don't treat it according to God's plan. Yeah. They won't get it if they don't.

I love it. You guys are incredible. I'm so proud of you. Very well done. Yeah. But you know, you don't follow that Dave Ramsey for investment advice. That Dave Ramsey, he's good on getting you out of debt, but he didn't know anything about investments. You ever heard that one on Twitter?

I get that every freaking day some moron out there that lives in his mother's basement that's been studying finance oh god yeah you don't follow that dave ramsey for investment advice you might end up with 2.2 million dollar net worth at 33 years old you wouldn't want to do that that that wouldn't that wouldn't work at all see the only reason we teach you to get out of debt people people, is so you can do that right there. There's only one reason to get out of debt. It's so that you can get control of your money and not give it all to somebody else and actually have a life and go build wealth. Of course we show you how to build wealth.

Better than anybody else with a higher probability of you ending up there than anybody else. But Dave Ramsey doesn't know anything about investments. Don't follow his investment advice, says the idiot writing a Bitcoin blog. Oh, my God. That puts this hour of the Dave Ramsey Show in the books. We will be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

Hey, it's Kelly, associate producer and phone screener for The Dave Ramsey Show. If you would like to do your debt-free scream live on the show, make sure you visit DaveRamsey.com slash show and register. We would love for you to come to Nashville and tell Dave your story.