The Ramsey Show - App - Ministry Isn't Something That's Separate From Your Work (Hour 3)

Episode Date: June 10, 2021

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🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, host of the Ken Coleman Show, where he talks about jobs and careers and finding work that you love, finding work that matters.

He's my co-host today. That means you can talk about your career as well as anything else you want to call in about. The phone number is 888-825-5225 christina is with us in phoenix arizona hi christina how are you i'm good thank you how are you better than i deserve what's up thanks for taking my call um i was wondering about selling our home um in this great market right now um So we purchased the home for about $160,000. We owe about $110,000 still. And it's listing for about $450,000. The thing is that we have significant

student loans. We have about $275,000 worth of student loans, $275,000. For what? Who's the doctor or lawyer? My husband is a physician assistant, and I'm a mental health therapist. Good. Okay. So your household income over $200,000? It should be this year. This year I've really hit it hard with my own private practice. Good. Good.

And what was it last year? About 165. Okay. And so you've got a pretty good trajectory on both of your careers, which is the payoff for getting good degrees, but now we've got the debt associated with them, right? The debt, yeah. Yeah. Well, it sounds like we've got the debt associated with them, right? The mess, yeah. Well, it sounds like you've got a choice.

Mathematically, you've got a choice. Live like a college student, spend absolutely no money, and keep your house, and be debt free in three years, or sell your house. My husband wants to keep it for like a rental type of no you don't need a rental you're broke okay you're 275 000 in debt you're not in any position to be investing in real estate well not right now i know we pay. Okay. Okay. So do you want to live there with absolutely no lifestyle, work like absolute maniacs, and clean up this ridiculous mess that you have in three years or less, or do you want to sell the house to get out now? Either one is okay.

There's no bad answer here. It's what you want to do. I would love to sell. I'm eager to get out of debt. He likes the idea, or he's playing around with the idea of selling it, but he's definitely more for the, he wants it for that potential passive type of income later on. Yeah.

Well, that's long-term thinking, which is not bad, but I don't know if he realizes what this is about to cost him. He's not going out to eat for the next three years. He's not going on vacation for the next three years. Yeah, it's hard. Yeah. Kiddos survive without restaurants. They have done it for centuries.

Yeah, they don't even care. Give them a bowl of goldfish and chicken nuggets, and they're thrilled. So this isn't about the kids. I think Dave brings up a good point. Does he understand how hard this is going to be to pay this off in three years? I don't think he does. Well, no. I mean, yeah, he's really good with money, so he's attacking it very hard.

No, he's not. He's $275,000 in debt. He's really good with money, so he's attacking it very hard. No, he's not. He's $275,000 in debt. He's not good with money. I mean, he attacked it really hard during this no interest. I mean, he went down from $170,000 to about $140,000, so he's definitely working hard at that. I just think that if you're the one that wants to pay the house off now, you've got to cast a little bit more vision for him. That's the one I would choose. But I would sit down with Stacy and go,

here's why I want this. If we sell this now, boom, it's done. We both make really good income. We can rent in a really nice place and still be emergency fund, fully funded immediately with the kind of income you guys have. And we can save up and then we can get a nicer house and put a really great down payment

on it. I just think you've got to show them the other side of this as opposed to what I think is a status symbol, which is this, I'd like to have passive income with this small house. I would just cast a different vision here. Have you guys really talked about your side of this thing and where it fast forwards your life so much faster have you done that i have yes i've honed in on that like this week that's why you know i've been trying to call all week no i'm saying has he you've talked about that and

painted a clear vision for how this fast forwards everything i i believe i have, yes. Okay. So here's what I heard. I just told you to pay off $100,000 a year, and you went and bragged about him paying off $30,000 in one year. Well, in a couple months. Oh, a couple months he did that? Yeah. Uh-huh. You said during the no interest, and the no interest has been a year. So that's why I'm sorry.

Oh, yeah. I mean, it's probably since, I guess, about a year or since the beginning of the year or so. The beginning of the year. He's hit it hard. Yeah, he's hit it hard. Okay. Because $100,000 a year is $8,000 a month. So $30,000 would be done in just a little over three months.

If he did that, then he's hitting it hard. I'll go with you. Okay. But I heard a year. I thought I heard a year when you said that. You didn't say a year, but I heard since they stopped having interest on the loans, which has been a year. So anyway, okay.

So, yeah. And by the way, he was paying off his debt, not our debt. So somehow I don't know where we got on that. But I think the two of you need to sit down together and go, all right, one of these two things is going to happen. We're either going to have no lifestyle and we're going to hit this hard for three years and be debt free, $300,000 in three years. Or we're going to sell the house, rent for a little while, have an emergency fund, build up cash for a down payment, and buy another house, and we'll buy rentals later. You're always going to have good incomes because you have two very good career fields if you work hard and continue with your craft and so on, right?

So a $200,000, $250,000 income, it's not hard to save up and pay off your own home and then save up and buy your first rental within the first decade here. It's very doable. But I think you're getting a cart in front of the horse. He is. He's starting to talk about rental properties while we still have a house mortgage and we still have $275,000 in student loan debt. It's out of order. That comes later.

So I would either sell the house or hold on to it with the idea that we're probably going to sell it later and move up in-house and get that house paid off before we start adding rentals. Paying it off and paying off the student loan debt and then going and taking a mortgage to buy your next home is not something I would tell you to do. And so he's, again, putting the cart before the horse with all that. So I'm kicking this rental thing down the road a little bit. I like rental property. I want you to have some rental property. But broke people shouldn't buy rental property. It's not a good thing.

It makes you a broker. That's why I call them real estate brokers. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Ken Coleman is my co-host today. This is The Ramsey Show. What are your teens and preteens doing this summer? If they're business-minded or are wanting some extra cash, the Teen Entrepreneur Toolbox is perfect for them. Best-selling author Anthony O'Neill created this toolbox to walk teens through eight easy, practical steps for starting their own business using our proven plan. Your teens can turn their ideas into a profitable business right from home.

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Chris is with us in Fort Smith, Arkansas. Hi, Chris. How are you? Good. Thank you, Dave. Thank you, Ken, so much. So I have a unique situation. My grandmother just recently passed away, and I am set to receive around $50,000. Due to a lack of me caring about my grades in high school, I had to take out a lot of student loans, and I worked really, really hard to graduate graduated top of my class during college, and now have a really great job in the federal government. I currently owe $71,144 in federal loans and then $46,265 with Sally Mae. I currently pay $900 a month in Sally Mae, but fortunately my employer will pay off all of my federal loans, and they're currently

paying $678 per month. So my question, and if I stay for eight more years, they will pay my federal loans off completely. So my question is, you know, with this inheritance money, I'm planning on paying off my salary and everything completely. But then after that, should I use that payment of $900 a month and just add that on to the amount that's already being paid by my employer and just knock out my federal loans quicker? Or should I use that $900 a month and invest it, even though I know that we shouldn't invest until after we get out of Baby Step 2? Yeah.

And so how much is the loan that will be paid off over eight years again? It's $71,145. Okay. And they're paying 100% of it, but over eight years? Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Okay. What do you make?

$40,000 a month. I'm not in my 30-year. I'm sorry. It's a government job everybody wanted for a minute there. Okay. Yeah. Yes'm sorry. It's a government job everybody wanted for a minute there. Okay. Yes, sir. All right. So is this a good career path for you, or is this golden handcuffs?

It is. My degree is in emergency management, and so it's kind of in public service, and that's what I wanted it to be. So, you know, really it is long-term. So there is a path here for you to make more than $40,000 then? Oh, yes, sir, absolutely. Okay, because you need to make more than $40,000. Yes, sir, I definitely recognize that, you know, I need to have a bigger shovel

and, you know, plan on doing some side jobs as well. With that all said, then what I tell folks to do where you've got someone else that's willing to pay off your loans, and I'm not talking about government forgiveness. This is an actual employer program where they're reducing and paying your debt off, okay? So what I would do is I want you to save your emergency. Once you're debt-free, not counting the $71,000, then I want you to save your emergency. Once you're debt-free, not counting the $71,000, then I want you to save $71,000. Okay.

And that's your next goal, as if you had to pay off the debt. But we're not going to pay it off. We're going to put it in savings. Okay? Okay. Now, once you've done that, then you've got that, and you can make that your emergency fund if you want. I don't care, but I need at least $71,000 in there

before you move on to baby step four and here's my plan if uh you get in a situation where some bizarre thing happens and there's like uh an ethics situation i'll use that okay something like that where you just you cannot stay you have got to leave because they're doing illegal stuff or something like that, right? I mean, you can see no reason to leave right now, but I'm saying something happens that's bizarre and blows up this job. You've got the money and the savings account to write a check and be debt-free, and you're not forced to stay there with these golden handcuffs of this debt reduction benefit.

Yes, sir. Okay. So you've got an exit strategy. there with these golden handcuffs of this debt reduction benefit. Yes, sir. Okay. So you've got an exit strategy. So, in other words, if you've got $71,000 in debt that they're going to pay off, and you've got the same $71,000 in a savings account that you're not going to touch for any reason, so you can hit eject if you need to, then we're going to call you debt-free. Does that make sense? Yes, sir, it does.

And then let them pay it off, and you're going to have the $71,000 left over if everything works out the way you think it's going to, and then move on and start putting 15% of your income into retirement from there. That's a lot, and that's very unusual, by the way. I bet I haven't heard of a program that does that 10 times ever in 30 years so that's a very it's an unusually good benefit um but but we can't close our eyes and act like the debt is not still there it's what we would call in finance a contingent liability it's as if you co-signed on 71 000 and you were hoping the person who was the primary signer actually paid the freaking bill. But if they don't, you own the hook.

And that's the case here. It's almost as if you're the co-signer now. They're the primary on the bill, but if they don't pay it for whatever reason, you're on the hook. So we're going to have that money as cover that contingent liability. It's not technically a contingent liability, but that's the way we'll treat it for purposes of execution on this process. Our question of the day comes from blinds.com. Find out for yourself why blinds.com is the number one online retailer of custom window coverings, free samples, free shipping, and new promos all the time. They are an incredible company. If you want window blinds, I'm getting ready to order some, by the way, and I have used this company a bunch of times. They are an incredible company. If you want window blinds, I'm getting

ready to order some, by the way, and I have used this company a bunch of times. They are incredible. Use the promo code RAMSEY to get the best possible deal. Today's question comes from SJ in Wisconsin. He writes, I'm a licensed architect and have been in the industry for 10 years. While I make a good living for years now, I've felt the pull to use my expertise as a ministry opportunity. I have completed one pro bono project with a ministry partner, and now we've started another pro bono project. I feel God is calling me to do this full time. I don't know how to help those who have no way to pay while taking care of my own family.

How can I blend my need to earn a living with my calling? Well, I love this question, and I'm not going to question someone saying, well, I feel God is calling me to do this full-time. However, when you feel that pull, S.J., that God's calling you to do this full-time, or maybe more, I don't believe God's going to call you into something and you not be able to take care of your family.

So that's my theological... It's inconsistent with Scripture. It's inconsistent with God. So he's going to provide. So here's what I would tell you. You're not going to make this step. You're not going to step out of being an architect into the great unknown

and then say, hey, God, fill this. I think God will open up a door if you ask. And Scripture's very clear on that. So you can look into, okay, what would it look like for me to do this from a ministry standpoint? door if you ask, and Scripture is very clear on that, so you can look into, okay, what would it look like for me to do this from a ministry standpoint? And I think potentially the answer is in your question. If you have, as an architect, worked with a ministry partner, that's a ministry organization,

to be able to do this type of work for families, then you need to figure out if they're willing to bring you on full-time, and you kind of spearhead some of these projects, whether that be Habitat for Humanity, and that's just an example, or whoever these ministries are. However, Dave, you and I have talked about this, and one thing I would push back if you were on the phone with me, I'd want to know more, because ministry is not separate from your occupation. Genesis chapter 2 makes it very clear that we were created to work.

And when we work, we use the talents that God gave us. He's the creator. And we do work. Good work is a ministry. And you don't separate the two. You need to start looking at your paying customers as spiritually valuable as your non-paying customers. That's right. And could God be calling you to do more of this?

But who says he's calling you away from your architectural career? You and I have a good friend who's a bone and joint doctor who's working on your foot right now as we speak. That's right. And you're going to pay him for that. When you see him, he prays for you every time. He does. He's a wonderful friend and a good man.

But every one of the people he ministers to pays him. Well, I don't know. He may work for free sometimes. I wouldn't say that. I don't know. I don't know that part. But it is his profession that allows him to do that. His profession is his ministry.

And allows him to do more ministry. And he gets paid. Yes. Quite well. And there's nothing inconsistent with that. No. So the problem is you've identified the wrong things as holy. Uh-huh.

Non-profit is not the only holy thing. Non-profit is an accounting entry. Non-profit is an IRS designation. It's not in the Bible. Non-profit is not more holy than a doc working on you and getting paid and praying for you, for God to heal your leg, and his expertise to heal your leg. And be careful not to feel the heart pull to do more ministry as a call or director from God to leave your income in your full-time profession.

He might be, but don't assume that that's the case. That's what I want to be careful of. You could do more ministry. You're being gentler than I would be. Of course. Of course. Everyone is. I don't think that's God.

Yeah, I would question it. Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Tyson and Natalie are with us in Ogden, Utah. And it says on my screen, you guys are debt-free. Congratulations. Thanks, Dave. Thank you. We called to tell you thank you so much for all the good things you're doing and for helping us get here.

Well, I'm so proud of you guys. Well done. How much have you paid off? $155,000. Wow. How long did that take? About 13 years. Cool.

And your range of income during that time? We started at about $42,000. We're at about $75,000, and we've gone up and down a little bit in between okay what do you guys do for a living i've uh i manufacture nutritional products okay and i'm home with the kids and uh teach an accounting course part-time online cool so what kind of debt was the $155,000? It was a house. Oh, talking to weird people.

How old are you guys? I just celebrated my 43rd birthday. My wife celebrated her 42nd. Wow, and you're 100% debt-free. Yep. Wow. What's the house worth? Well, now it's about, well, in the market we're at over here, about $350.

Oh, that's so nice. Woo! So tell us your story. What happened? Well, I'm allergic to debt, and we just started paying down the house and we took your class in 2010 just for fun because that's what I like to do for fun. I love accounting, family finance, that's what I studied. So we took your class and we just kept paying and we just paid every month and paid extra when we could. And it was just really simple, nothing flashy, and here we are. Wow.

Good for you guys. Well, you plowed right through in 13 years. Yes. Man, that's perseverance. Yes. Were you systematically paying extra on it all the time or just hit or miss? We set a goal to get certain amounts we could. And when we refinanced to a shorter-term loan,

we kept paying the same amount that we already were doing. So that helped us a lot. Yeah, so we started on a 30-year loan. When we started in 06, the interest rates were really high. So they were like 6.75. So we really did pay it like a 15 for a year and a half until it went up in enough value that we were able to get rid of PMI, and it was exactly what a 15-year was, and then we paid it off early from there. Wow. Look at you

guys. Very systematic, very much process. I love it. That is a beautiful story. That's a real testament to your personal discipline. Yeah, I wanted to ask you, how did you mentally handle the dips when you had the income changes and then you had different things that had happened? I mean, this is 13 years. This is a long time, and you just stayed with it. What would you say to folks who are in that mindset of, hey, I want to pay the house off. Is it possible? Well, when we had the increase in income, we went up to as high as $89,000, and we didn't increase our living. We just threw it in the roth around the house.

And then when we had the dip in income, we went through unemployment and we went to zero. We just hung on and we were prepared and we just weathered the storm. And so to other people that are out there, I would just say, you know, we're real average and anybody can do this. So you just, when it gets hard, you just, you dig deep and you celebrate the little successes. I love that. They weathered the storm, Dave. They didn't quit. Yeah.

That's it. Yeah, storms come, right? Yeah. So all you have to do is be ready for them. Don't be shocked. They're coming. Yep. That's a way to go, you guys.

Very, very proud of you guys. So you took the class for fun in 2010, and here you are in 2021 with a paid-for house. Yep. Wow. So you were already on your way by then. Look at you. This is so fun. How does it feel to not have a payment in the world?

It's great. A little strange, but we like it. Yeah. It's almost surreal. So how many kids do you have what are their names and ages we have four and there is jack on our oldest and she is 15 then wesley is our next oldest and he's 12 then we have tommy who's 11 and chloe who's nine all right are they around or is it going to be a family affair to do your debt-free scream or what? We've got three out of the four with us. That's pretty good.

That's not bad. Good, good. Well, we've got a copy of the legacy journey for you. That's for sure your next chapter in this story and an extra copy of the total money makeover for you to be able to give away to someone and start their journey so proud of you guys you're absolute heroes well done well done so much we appreciate you so much we appreciate you tyson and natalie ogden utah 155 000 paid off in 13 years making 42 to 75 count it down let's hear a debt-free scream three two one oh man that's so fun very very well done you guys you know oftentimes when we see these things we talk about the legacy and changing your family tree.

And we've developed all these teaching tools for you to teach your kids how to handle money. And that completes the changing of the family tree that way. So right now we've got them on sale. We've just dropped our prices up to 80% on our best-selling kids products. changing of the family tree that way. So right now we've got them on sale. We've just dropped our prices up to 80% on our best-selling kids' products so you can have fun and you can have an educational summer all at the same time. The Adventure Pack is a family favorite that includes the new Storytime collection. All of the juniors' adventures are in one big thick book now.

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Hi, Terrell. How are you? Hello, Dave. I'm well. How about yourself? Great. How can we help? Yes. So my question is, I have a paid off car. It's one year old and I got it appraised for just about $26,000. Now that car was my only and last debt. My question is, should I sell the car? Because that's essentially all of my net worth. But should I sell the car?

And the reason for my question is it has a maintenance package for five more years. What's your income? Well, full disclosure, I'm a student and a veteran, so I've got a little bit of disability income as well as working full-time. So just about, I'd say, $50,000. Okay. Well, if you like the car, you can keep it. It's less than half your annual income, and it's paid for.

Okay. Yeah, that's fine. You're right. It is your entire net worth, and you don't want more than 50% of your income tied up in things with wheels and motors. And you're right close to that, but you're not. But here's the trick going forward if you really want to become wealthy you keep the smallest possible percentage of your income tied up in things that are going down in value and so you wouldn't make this mistake again it's not such a big mistake you've got to undo it and sell it, but it's a lot of car for you. It's over the top, really.

But I'd probably keep it if I'm in your shoes. And thanks for your service to our country, sir. We'll be right back. Our scripture of the day, Isaiah 26.3, You will keep in perfect peace those whose minds are steadfast because they trust in you. Lou Holtz said, it is not the load that breaks you down. It's the way you carry it. Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Jason is with us in Fort Worth.

Hi, Jason. How are you? How's it going, guys? Better than we deserve. What's up? I have a question for you. So I kind of want to make sure I'm on the right track. I'm looking to buy a business or buy a portion of a business,

and I just kind of want to make sure I'm in the right stage of my life and I got things in order where I can do that. Okay. So how much is it going to be? So I've got an agreement with the guy for 33% of the company and it'd be about $40,000. Why would you buy 32%? Or 33%. So I am kind of in the portion where I came in as a business developer. So he wants to be part of the company, and it's a side gig I have. So I'm not going to be there full time, but I can be there for, I can have 33% of the company and still do my primary job. No, thank you. I'll pass.

Yeah, absolutely. Hard pass. You want to know why? Yes, I would. You have absolutely no power. You have a minority position, and he can decide to make decisions tomorrow that bankrupt it, and your 33% equals zero. You have absolutely no say whatsoever in this.

You're a minority stockholder in a small business. That's broke, by the way, because they need a cash influx. Now, would it be better if I went and if I could work out 50%? 51. 51%? Yeah, then you can control it. I'd prefer 100, though. I mean, if 40 buys 33, 120,000 buys the whole stinking thing.

Have you gained money? Well, the part of the thing is that I've doubled the income of the business to about, I do think he's undervaluing the company as well. If he'll sell it for 120,000, do you have the money? No, I do not. Okay. So do you have the 40? Yes, I do. Okay. How much do you have the $40,000?

Yes, I do. Okay. How much do you have to put towards this business? I've got about $80,000. Okay. And what is the net profits of the business? So as of right now, it is a subcontractor for construction, so it kind of fluctuates. But right now, it's about $200,000. Profit? Yes. Profit. So it kind of fluctuates, but right now it's about $200,000.

Profit? Yes. Profit, after everyone is paid and all expenses are paid? Yes. I'm so confused why he would sell this for $120,000. So he doesn't want to sell. He just wants to sell at 33%, and part of it is because I have the contacts. I work for a general contractor, so I have the contacts to grow the business exponentially, and that's where my 33% would come in.

Yeah. Okay. So what this is is a bad comp plan he wants to compensate you for all the value you've brought to the business and the way he's doing that is he's putting you in as a minority shareholder and it's a good way for you to end up with losing money rather than making money you shouldn't have to pay for this so what he should do is agree to pay you a percentage of the profits as your comp. Okay. Pay you like a partner.

Pay you like a partner without any stock transfer at all. Okay. But you don't have ownership. You just are paid off the bottom line like a partner. That's how our operating board is paid here at Ramsey. We've got 17 operating board members. All of them are paid off the same line I'm paid off of. But they don't own stock.

And that'd be for risk reasons? No, it's because they make a whole lot of money that way. And I want you to make a whole lot of money. But I don't want you to put in any money. And I don't want you to feel like you own something when you don't, because when you own 33% of something, you own nothing. This is a side hustle for you. How much are you making personally off of this side hustle?

I'm making $40,000 off the side hustle, and me and my wife together make about $155,000. Ask him to pay you one-fourth of the profit for doing the work you do. Got you. Because you're bringing all the growth. And that would be $50,000 a year. That would give you a $10,000 a year raise. And then as you bring in more and more and more, he keeps paying you a fourth of the profit.

You're going to make a lot of money as you make more profit. Yep. But what he's confusing and you're confusing is a comp plan with a partnership and you do not need to you don't want to pay to own a 33 interest now if he wants to give you a third of the company to say thank you for growing the business sure i'll take it but i'm not paying for it because you have zero voting rights he anything you say he can say i don't want to do it i'm gonna do this instead and he could just change his mind or his wife could come in and decide that she wants

everybody to be fired and he fires everybody i I mean, all kinds of crazy stuff happens with people when they do not own the control of a company that they have paid to have a percentage of. And so it's just a problem. I would not pay for it. But maybe he could just give it to you if you've grown the business that much. Yeah, it sounds like that this guy wants him to keep making it rain, and he realizes that Jason is the rainmaker. Well, here's the challenge with that. If you're the rainmaker, at some point, he's got to give you more of that, or else you could go do this on your own. You've got all the context.

This is subcontracting. This is all about relationships. Subcontracting and construction, that's all that is. But listen, it can be a comp plan without it being an ownership plan. That's right. Because you actually see the money. We got, listen, you've watched me do this around here. You've been around here 15 years.

You know, you've watched me. There's rainmakers in this place. Yeah. And you know what? They make a lot of money. Right. Because they make us a lot of money. And it's fair to share with them.

But you know how much Ramsey stock they own? Zero. So I didn't get confused between ownership and comp. Your compensation does not have to be stock. And to your point, Dave, they don't want ownership if they're making rain. If they're making it, they're making it. They know this is not about ownership. And so I don't know if this guy's trying to pull a deal here or if he just doesn't understand how to.

I think he just, people get confused. He thinks he's doing a nice thing. Yeah. And it's not. It's a $40,000 ripoff. I think that's right. Yeah. Yeah.

So ask him to just give you the $33,000. Or just say, you know what? I don't need $33,000. $25,000 would be great. Just give me a fourth. Yeah. And then let him pay you off the bottom line and then pay your salary too. Then you'll be getting some serious money going.

Yes. That'd be, there you go. Ding, ding. And that's the win-win. Help him see that it is a win-win. He may not even know how to articulate win-win, which is what we suspect here. So really go back to what Dave laid out here. This is going to be a fabulous deal.

But if he decides to spend $250,000 on a computer system or a software program or purchase a truck. That's correct. You got zero say in that. Uh-huh. Zero. Yep. If you're a minority owner and you paid $40,000 to sit there and get additional comp. Yeah.

You're kind of like buying compensation is what you're trying to do. And it's just not a plan. It's not the way to play it out. So we spend a lot of time on compensation programs here. And those of you running businesses, check out Entree Leadership. We're really, really good at it. We have figured out people do what you pay them to do. And so we try to figure out all kinds of interesting ways to pay people to remind them that what

they're doing is what they get paid for. And it's motivating as crud when you get it right. And it's demotivating as crud when you don't. So, yeah, and, you know, we made the decision a long time ago that this is not a publicly traded company. This is an organization operated. God owns it, and the Ramseys run it, and we're sharing. Yeah. And we're very, very generous in our comp yeah uh especially with rainmakers yeah you know why because we want them to make more rain yeah why is this a hard formula

for corporate america they try to screw everybody you don't need to get screwed why do people do this you don't need to do it so yeah it's good very good it's a good question yeah interesting discussion thanks for giving a soapbox for us to jump up on. Ken Coleman, good show today. Thank you, sir. James Childs, our producer. Kelly Daniel, our associate producer and phone screener. Great job, as always.

I am Dave Ramsey, your host. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there is ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Have a friend or family member that needs a daily dose of Ramsey advice in their life? Let them know about the Ramsey Call of the Day podcast. It's a quick hit of advice about life and money in under 10 minutes. Check out the Ramsey Call of the Day podcast

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