The Ramsey Show - App - Money Magnifies What You Already Are

Starting point is 00:00:00 Normal is broke and common sense is weird so we're here to help you transform your life from the Ramsey network in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio. This is The Ramsey Show. Well, as you can tell, we got a brand new studio sponsor, and we did a little bit of a new opener. We've been working on our opener a little bit. The other one kind of sucked, so we worked on a little bit. And we're pumped about this new studio sponsor, Fair Win's Credit Union.

Starting point is 00:00:47 These guys are absolutely incredible. They've been a partner for a while now. And you guys know, if you listen to Dave Ramsey for about 30 seconds, that I pretty much hate the Big Bank. You know, like why you would do business with Bank of America and get mistreated the way they mistreat all their customers is beyond me. Why you would do business with Fifth Third is beyond me. Why you would do business with Chase, I have no idea what's wrong with you if you're doing that. I don't get it because they just, they just treat you like crap and you give them your money to do that.

Starting point is 00:01:22 Instead, we work with small regional banks and we've been an endorser of credit unions nationwide for, off and on for 30 years since I started the show because I'm a huge fan of credit unions. The main reason is this, credit unions work different. They're not a bank. They are non-profit. And the weird thing is the people that are the customers or the members actually are the owners. Now, you don't get to go in there and say, I want that desk. It's not yours, okay?

Starting point is 00:01:50 You're not that kind of an owner, but you're a stockholder, so to speak, in a nonprofit. Now, what that means mathematically is if there is a profit made, and there has to be for them to stay open. They turn it back to customer services, reduced interest rates on loans, increased interest rates on savings accounts, and other free things like cool free things they do for Ramsey people all the time at Fairwinds. So I've been a big fan of Credit Unions for a long time. Fair Wins came along.

Starting point is 00:02:17 We started working with them about a year ago, and they're absolutely incredible. I love credit unions. You need to do business with a financial institution that actually cares about you, and this is why we endorse Fair Wins, and now they've stepped up. up their partnership, and they are our new studio sponsor here for the Ramsey Show. They've been in business for over 75 years. They served hundreds of thousands of members worldwide. They partner with more than 5,000 credit union locations, other credit unions around the country

Starting point is 00:02:46 in a partnership, so you can bank wherever you live. So it's totally click and mortar. 33,000 fee-free ATMs. Deposits are federally insured by the NCUA up to 250,000. got the same level of insurance you would with a stupid bank. And they've created a combined checking. This is the important part in high-yield savings account bundle for Ramsey fans. The high-yield savings account is competitive with national digital banks,

Starting point is 00:03:12 built for people who want to stay out of debt, and a good place to park and get that old emergency fund kicking, right? No credit traps. It's built to align with the baby steps. Interest rate isn't some bait-and-switch thing. It's designed to support Ramsey fans as you get your emergency fund and you save with intention. And now, along with the studio sponsorship,

Starting point is 00:03:33 we're introducing something very cool, the new Ramsey debit card with fair wins. And this is cool, because right on the front of the card, it says, dead as normal, be weird. So as soon as you're checking out,

Starting point is 00:03:48 you're going to get a response from the waiter. You're like, what? You're going to get a response from the girl at Target trying to sell you a credit card. She's going to be saying, what? I can't do it.

Starting point is 00:03:57 I got this. Debt's, you know, debt's normal. I don't want to be normal. I'm weird. Look at my card. Here, can I show you my card? Can I show you my card? You know, I mean, it just changes everything, right?

Starting point is 00:04:07 It's not a payment method. It's a daily reminder that you're working the baby steps and that you're not going to go in debt. And it is a Ramsey debit card at Fair Winds. So you can see why these guys are not typical. They're aligned with us. We're excited for you to have them check to, for you to check them out. And you guys haven't been a. around us for a while because we've added millions of people in the past six months or a year.

Starting point is 00:04:31 You guys don't know how hard we are on endorsements. We don't endorse everything. We endorse stuff we believe in. And I've got a rule. I started the rule. I endorsed a couple things in my early days of talk radio because I was broke and desperate that I wished I wasn't. And I was ashamed of one of my friends came up and said, would you do that?

Starting point is 00:04:51 And I said, no, John. I wouldn't do that. You're my friend. But I did put it on the radio. Well, that's just lying. That's just insincere. That's hypocritical. So I got it so embarrassed.

Starting point is 00:05:01 I said, I'm never doing it again. And our rule for our sales team has always been no endorsements of any kind, for any of our Ramsey personalities, unless we're willing to send our mama there, our best friend there. And would I tell you to go over there? And if not, if we can't feel that good about it, we don't need the money. We got plenty of money. We're stacking money around here.

Starting point is 00:05:22 It's not a problem. Profits are not an issue at Ramsey, all right? So we don't need the money. So we're very, very selective and very careful. Can you imagine how hard we are to work with if you're in the banking sector? I mean, just saying it pisses me off, right? And so can you imagine the poor people at Fairwinds what they have been through? And they're wonderful people.

Starting point is 00:05:44 But they kept going, well, you don't want our money? No, we're going to just let this, we're going to make sure everything's okay first. And you know what? They've been wonderful. They're incredible folks. They do have a great track record. and they got great hearts. We've gotten to know the executive team there.

Starting point is 00:05:59 They do a great job. And so we're really excited. Easy to join Fairwins.org slash Ramsey. That's where you go. Fairwins.org, non-profit.org slash Ramsey. That's F-A-I-R-W-I-N-D-S dot org slash Ramsey. And I'm super pumped that we now have a dead as normal, Be Weird Ramsey debit card out there in the wild.

Starting point is 00:06:23 This is cool, John. It's very cool. It's going to be the new, it's like the alternative to the black card, right? That was like, ooh, now when somebody whips out the be weird card. Yeah, it's like the polar opposite end. Exactly. Yeah, like I didn't pay $75,000 for this. That's right.

Starting point is 00:06:44 I didn't pay $7,500 for this. And how cool would it be if there was a movement across the country when people put their Ramsey debit card, their, Debt is normal, be weird, debit card. I'm getting out of debt, is what this says. But they also knew, oh, these are the most generous folks out there. They're going to tip us well, too. We know these men and women.

Starting point is 00:07:08 They're a different character. You know what? We need to just make that an assignment right now. How cool would that be? Do not get a Ramsey debit card if you cheap out on waiters. We don't want you. No. If you're not going to load up the waiter with your Ramsey debit card,

Starting point is 00:07:22 load them up baby load up who anybody you got a tip heavy if you got this so there is a tax on this thing there's a tax but it's a generosity tax

Starting point is 00:07:31 and that's a good muscle flex this is awesome I like it John you just invented something right here on the air well there we go there we go pretty scary

Starting point is 00:07:38 I get one a year this is good I like that a lot but I love the idea of waiters walking back to the back to run the card and then going

Starting point is 00:07:47 ha ha like showing it to the other staff and being like I got one They know they're about to get tipped really well. That's cool. I like that a lot.

Starting point is 00:07:56 That's very good. All right. So Fair Wins Credit Union Studios. That's us now. That's what we're broadcasting from. We got it up in here. It's on the wall, isn't it? Somewhere.

Starting point is 00:08:09 Is it on the wall? It's right there on the wall. There it is. Right there. Okay. And so that reminds you guys right there that we're here. And we're going to be saying this over and over and over and over. I hope forever.

Starting point is 00:08:19 And I hope you guys start getting that Ramsey debit card at Fair Wins. and you get those high-yield savings accounts for your emergency fund at Fairwinds, and you get the bundle and the free checking and all this stuff at Fairwinds because you're going to have a great response from them. They love Ramsey people. They have been taking care of our folks really well for the last year. That's why we did this much-increased footprint with them, and it includes the high-tipping Ramsey debit card, according to Dr. John Deloney.

Starting point is 00:08:44 I like it. Hey, this is a change culture. It's a good adjustment. It's a good adjustment. I like right there live, call an audible. Fairwinds Credit Union.org slash Ramsey Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality Number one bestselling author is my co-host today.

Starting point is 00:09:04 Maria is in St. Louis. Hi, Maria. How are you? Hi, Dave. Good afternoon. I'm great. Thank you. How are you guys?

Starting point is 00:09:11 Better than I deserve. What's up? That is a great response. I just wanted to say thank you so much for everything that you do. I'm a huge fan of your podcast, YouTube channel, show, everything. I'm very honored to be on today. Thank you. My question is, I have about $100,000 in my 401K.

Starting point is 00:09:32 I'm 30 years old, and I've been wanting to open up a wedding venue out here in Defiance, Missouri, which is beautiful kind of wine country. I'm wondering if I should take for my 401K and put something. type of equity into this wedding venue dream that I have. But of course, I do have some lingering debts and just wanted to get your opinion on do I take for my 401k or kind of where do I even begin with this. So what do you do for living now? I am in supply chain for a defense contractor. So you're making 100K? I have a second job. I work at a bar on the weekends, so I do serve, so I'm probably about $1.15. Okay, all right. But your supply chain's

Starting point is 00:10:22 $100K? 105. 105, yeah, okay. All right, and good for you. Thank you. And how much debt did you say you have? So we just bought a house, me and my boyfriend bought a house last November for $450. We have the mortgage. We both have car payments. What do you, And I owe $24,000, and I paid $31 to the bank. So I'm a little upset about the car. You owe $24,000. What other debt do you have? I owe student loans $15,000.

Starting point is 00:11:03 Okay. All right. And, well, a couple things come to mind immediately. One is if you're going to run a wedding chapel, you should act like you believe in your product. and you should be married. Correct. We, hey, we looked at rings.

Starting point is 00:11:21 We have a ring picked out. Yeah, okay. Just before we get going. Just kind of basic stuff. I've never heard of a, I've never heard the phrase, that's a great Missouri wine. What kind of wine do they have in Missouri? In defiance, yeah. You're not wrong.

Starting point is 00:11:36 It's this, they have a bunch of wineries. It's the big, like everyone's right now. They're just kind of a little resort area there. Maybe it's up and coming. It's beautiful. Okay, it's a pretty area and an excuse to drink some wine, yeah, okay. Or have a wedding, yes. Or have a wedding, or both, yeah, okay.

Starting point is 00:11:52 But there's no existing venue that you're trying to purchase. You would build this? I would build this, so I would have to buy the land. I would, of course, have, you know, everything. It would be starting from scratch. Yeah, okay. All right. Well, number one, I would tell you, regardless of what business idea you propose,

Starting point is 00:12:11 I would have you get out of debt before you try it. Okay. Number two, we coach about 10,000 small businesses through our entree leadership brand. I do an entree leadership podcast. It's one of the top podcasts in the small business space. And we teach them to not grow their business with that. Okay. To grow it slowly.

Starting point is 00:12:32 So I'm not going to have you borrow on your 401K. And of course, you know, we're not going to tell you to cash out a 401k and take a 10% penalty pleasure tax rate of 30% or, Dave, I'm going to borrow money at 40% interest to open a wedding venue. No, you're not. And so we're not doing that either. So that kind of takes up. Those things kind of, I start to be a dream killer, but I'm not a dream killer. What I am is a nightmare killer.

Starting point is 00:12:54 I want to set you up to win at your dream, not to get to the end of your dream and be one of the 80% of small businesses that fail. And that number is actually true. And what causes the 80%, the number one cause of small business failure is called cash flow problems. Now, cash flow problems mean I'm short on money, hello, and that usually means I'm in debt and I didn't pay my taxes properly, and the IRS is chasing me down. So the taxes thing you can work on with quarterly estimates and do your accounting properly, it's not the end of the world, and just not, just being sophisticated enough to run your business properly.

Starting point is 00:13:34 The debt thing is you've got to, if nobody wants to get married, the banker doesn't care. Right. If 73 people get married that day, the banker doesn't care. The banker just doesn't care. It's a freaking banker. And they will foreclose on your little wedding chapel and turned it into a dog park. I mean, in a heartbeat, they'll do that. You know that's true.

Starting point is 00:13:57 That's why you're laughing. Oh, yes, yes, exactly. And so what I want to do is if I'm going to run a business, and I do run one, and we have 14 profit centers, meaning 14 mini businesses inside of the Ramsey Solutions total P&L. So I run 14 businesses of sorts. They're all interconnected, but I run all of those as the CEO of this place, and I've grown it from a card table in my living room. So what we want to do, anytime we're trying something new, which is what you're doing, in an area where it's never yet been done, ooh, risk, which is what we're doing. Well, the wineries do offer weddings, but there is no wedding, true wedding venue.

Starting point is 00:14:38 They're more just wineries. What's the biggest, nicest winery? Put that name in your head, don't say it out loud. Okay. Okay. After John's comment for sure, okay. Yeah, not a Missouri fan. Okay, go on.

Starting point is 00:14:50 I love Missouri. We like Missouri. We just never associated it with Napa. And so go over and talk to them about a joint venture and let them build it. Wow. Okay. I didn't even think about that. They'll put up the money.

Starting point is 00:15:07 They suck at wedding. They're good at one. I'm excellent at weddings and wedding venues. You can increase your visit. You can increase your visits to the winery. We'll put it right here on property. And we'll JV it. And you guys own the building.

Starting point is 00:15:21 You own the property. And I run it for a percentage of profits for you. And let's lay out a model. And let's start that puppy where you do it at nights and weekends and maybe some days off from your logistics. Don't quit yet. And let's get $50, $60,000 income. $80,000 of income coming into your pocket before you quit your job. Okay.

Starting point is 00:15:44 We always say pull the boat up close to the dock before you so you can step in rather than make the leap. People that make leaps get wet. So get your income from the wedding venue up. And let's figure out a way to do this where you don't have to carry the burden of all the downside and for that matter these people could start the thing in a really nice high-end tent yeah you could you could yeah and then let's prove let's concept prove right let's get social proof for the concept and they got $25,000 or or $50,000 in the tent before we go build a

Starting point is 00:16:26 $100,000 building or $200,000 building and we prove out that we're both going to make bank on this you're going to get a lot more customers for the winery you're also going to make money on the weddings, because I'm not taking 100% of the profits. You got invested in this, too, so we're doing this together, and do a JV on it, and let's prove it out, and go ahead and put in the agreement that someday you can buy them out, and you could move it off-site. Okay, so almost like a, not a franchise, but basically just taking... No, more like an option to purchase.

Starting point is 00:16:55 Okay. That's a good idea, too. To go with it later, because if it goes gangbusters later, or if they ever went broke, you could own it. You went on the real estate, but you'd own the idea. Right. And so, let's just kind of eat. I'm trying to ease into this and limit my risk rather than just take this leap off a cliff and go, I sure, God, hope that water's deep.

Starting point is 00:17:18 I know. The upfront cost of the wedding venue is what is the lingering question. Yeah. And you can't start. So, yeah, let's start it with a camping trip and go from there. I mean, I think it, I got to tell you, I think the. tying it to the winery could really help the wedding chapel, and it for sure will help the winery. Oh, yeah.

Starting point is 00:17:43 I mean, you could start at the winery and then, you know, move on over to the venue. Go ahead and option the piece of ground next door and buy it out. Buy the ground first for some of your profits. Later, build the chapel. When you get it built, I exercise your option on the business. Move it next door. Okay, so what if worst case scenario, what if these guys are like, no, we do perfectly fine, we're not. Go to the other one.

Starting point is 00:18:05 to the next one. You just missed out. Your competition is now going to have a wedding venue, and you should have done it. You screwed up. And then get on Amazon and order an Elvis costume and pay some high school kid to stand there next to you. I'll go renew my vows and defiance wine country. A spinner sign. That's right. A spinner sign.

Starting point is 00:18:25 That's right. What are you? Vegas. I'm just trying to think of this up-and-coming wine country, Dave. Yeah, Elvis is known for that. What? I'm just saying. I don't, people get.

Starting point is 00:18:34 Elvis Weddings? In Vegas. I'm just telling you. You're just starting another trend, did you? I'm starting another trend. If you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and feel like you can't get ahead, we'll join one of our free every dollar trainings. There are new trainings every week this month,

Starting point is 00:19:01 and they're all hosted by one of the Ramsey personalities. that would be George or Rachel or Jade. And they're going to show you how to stick to a budget. And typically people find thousands of dollars of margin using every dollar. Feel like you got a raise when you do a budget. You really do because you go, what? Yeah. So, and you can ask any question during the live Q&A.

Starting point is 00:19:23 Sign up for free at ramsysolutions.com slash webinar. It's a free every dollar training. Ramsey Solutions.com slash webinar. Dan's in Seattle. Hi, Dan. How are you? I'm doing good, Dave. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Starting point is 00:19:40 So my question for you today is, I'm on baby step two, and I have about $80,000 in debt. Now, most of my debt is through one bank, and they're offering me settlements at about 35 cents on the dollar. But I also owe $32,000 to the Department of Treasury, and they just sent me an intent to initiate wage garnishment. The IRS? No, it's through the Department of Treasury. For what? So I was in the military.

Starting point is 00:20:16 I was in the Navy for about five years, and I got discharged early for failing a drug test. And so because of that, they're asking for my re-enlistment bonus that I had signed a contract for back. okay so you got a reenlistment bonus and how many months later did you fail the drug test uh it was two years later two years later okay and the reenlistment was for how long that was the six year contract okay so you were one-third of the way through so what was your bonus when you were re-enlisted uh it was the money they're asking for back it was around 32,000 So they don't pro-rate it at all. They want the whole thing.

Starting point is 00:21:04 Huh. They want the amount that they had already paid out to me. That wasn't the full amount, but that was what I had received up until the point that I got. Oh, they were paying it out to you over the six-year period. Correct. So it is the pro rata amount. Okay. So overall, had you been there, you would have got $90-something thousand dollars had you been there the whole time?

Starting point is 00:21:26 Roughly, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right. Hmm All right Have you tried to negotiate a payment plan with them

Starting point is 00:21:36 Because I'm sure they expect someone that failed a drug test To have $32,000 laying around Um I have not So my plan was Because I know you normally say Uh, work smallest to large it's Largians

Starting point is 00:21:50 Yeah, but not when Not when you're dealing with the U.S. freaking government With the IRS or the U.S. Department of Treasury They have the ability to come take stuff from you that other people don't. So, yeah, what I would do is get on the phone with them and figure out if they can, if you can work a payment plan with them. And that will use up some of the money you're using to get out of debt on the other side,

Starting point is 00:22:12 but it also keeps them from coming and taking your wages, which they can do in a heartbeat. They don't even have to go to court. They just got to send a notice. It's like the IRS. They're unbelievably powerful. Right. So, yeah, you need to get that thing settled to create a sustainable situation so you can work your way through the rest of it.

Starting point is 00:22:32 Okay. So we need to get a payment plan with them. They'll work a payment plan with you because I don't think they think they're going to get their money. Right. I mean, if they let 100 people go in this exact same situation due to failing a drug test, a hundred of them don't have the money. Okay.

Starting point is 00:22:51 None of you guys are sitting around on $32,000 when this happens to you, right? I mean, your other friends in the military that that happened to, right? yes sir you're not like you're sitting around you know on piles of money you know it just doesn't it doesn't work that way so yeah i um yeah i'd work a payment plan with them and then with what i've got left so i would imagine they'll settle what are you making now what do you make uh 85 000 a year before tax good what do you do what do you do now i am a data center engineer great excellent and so keep learning and keep growing and keep keep that income increasing and let's get it all cleared off as fast as possible what i would do is

Starting point is 00:23:33 call them and say this hey i got let go from the military for a drug test i have no money you really can't get anything but i would love to start a payment plan to get this paid back what's the least you would put me on and put it on the smallest payment possible for now that gives you more room to work on the other stuff and when the other stuff's gone then go back and pay them off completely early so you know i don't want you to offer them a thousand and they would have taken 500 a month for right now right i want them to give you a number and no matter what they say practice this with me dan go i want you to gasp no matter what they say act like you're about passed out

Starting point is 00:24:21 and go you're kidding oh my oh no oh my gosh oh my gosh oh can you do any better and let them negotiate with themselves for a minute okay you understand the technique I do it works especially when you're dealing with a government employee on the other end and day hey Dan Dan you're still there man listen to me this will not go away right all right and I know the temptation will be like somebody of yours is going to have a cool jeep that he's jacked up he's going to give it to you to quote unquote great deal and someone's going to ask you to get in on bitcoin or whatever the thing's coming none of this is going to go away so the faster you figure out how to get this cleared up I would go scorched earth on my living arrangements until I got the government out of my life yep yep yep yep yep okay they are they are unwavering it's not going to go away they're the hardest of all creditors to deal with right because they're their own boss they don't they answer to nobody yeah they don't have to check with a judge it's crazy right it's like student loans they just issue the garnishment it's like

Starting point is 00:25:40 the IRS they just issue the garnishment they don't have to go through due process it's completely unconstitutional but it doesn't matter they do it anyway so you know due process is in the constitution not when it comes to government debt nope they just come take it and then they then they go oh you mean we weren't supposed to do that we'll get it back then It doesn't work. No, it's a pain in the butt. I want to scare you because I want to scare you in knocking this out as fast as you possibly can. But in the meantime, put it on the smallest possible payment, so you've got a sustainable situation.

Starting point is 00:26:10 And then work like a crazy man, live scorched earth, stay off the dead gum drugs and attack this stuff, man, and get it out of your life. Get rid of it so it doesn't come back. And, yeah, for sure. You've got a great career in front of you. Don't screw it up. Bus, bust, bust, bust, bust, bust. Get those certifications, data analysts, man, in an AI world, you are king. You're going to be king of the heap because you're going to be the one telling AI what to do

Starting point is 00:26:36 if you learn how to do your craft. Believe me, I got them in this building and I pay them well. So you, and they're the future. They are the future. The children are our future. Yeah, that's it. But that's, you know, said AI. But yeah, they do it, man.

Starting point is 00:26:51 John's right, though. Don't let, don't let up until they're out of your life because this is not going away. And if you look up five years from now and you've still got this hanging around because you haven't dealt with it, you hope John's voice is ringing in your ear. It's not going away. People keep – and this is a little bit different situation, but man, I don't know what it's going to take for folks to stop getting into business arrangements with the government. It just doesn't end – I mean, it doesn't end well because they answer to nobody. They just – they're just going to come take your check.

Starting point is 00:27:24 They're – if you're going to – if you get into the student loan world, you are making a deal. with the government. If you don't pay your taxes, you don't pay your taxes, you're making a deal of the government. And it's just, it's frustrating. It is what it is, but man, they win 100% of the time. And they got Vegas beat on that. And the number, well, at least Vegas, Vegas just wins most of the time, that's right. And the number of folks, the students I worked with over the years that just think it's going to go away. It's not going to go away. It just doesn't. It just gets bigger. It gets bigger. It's right. It will come back. It comes back to life, zombie debt. Just keeps coming back to life.

Starting point is 00:28:11 Thanks for being with us. Ryan is in Detroit, Michigan. Hi, Ryan. How are you guys doing? Better than we deserve. What's up? Okay, so I've been following your babysitting. And they've been working out very well for me.

Starting point is 00:28:26 I'm active duty military, and I'm on baby step six, on my wife and I'm on baby step six. And we're just wondering, with us moving every four to five years, would it be wise to put money into the house to pay down the mortgage or to put the money aside in a savings or investment account? Well, when you move, you're going to sell the house and they're going to give you a check. Yes. So put it into the mortgage. And then someday there won't be a mortgage. And when you sell the house, they're going to give you a check. And when you buy the house, you're going to give them a check.

Starting point is 00:29:02 Someday there'll be no mortgage and you move from no mortgage to no mortgage. All right. Cool deal. Yeah, forced savings plan. Now, a couple of guidelines. Which branch are you in? Coast Craig. Okay.

Starting point is 00:29:16 Thank you for your service, by the way. Yeah. So you're not moving but every five years or so, right? Yeah, we move every four. we can possibly extend to five. Yeah, yeah, because a lot of the Army guys are every two, so Navy as well. So, especially earlier in their career. We work with the military a lot.

Starting point is 00:29:36 Thank you again. But anyway, the thing to be sure of is it's not always, in your case it's more likely, but it's not always a good idea to buy. Yeah. So what you want to be sure of is during your time in the market, is the property going to increase enough in value to bother to own it? So if you're only there two years and you're in a flat real estate market, you would not buy. You would rent.

Starting point is 00:30:08 Yeah. Okay? You're better off. You're going to lose money. And if you're in a flat real estate market, you can't sell it when you get ready to leave. Now, your postings are largely around non-military base situations. You're in more of a civilian setting, right? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:30:25 Yeah, like you're not going into one of these huge forts or, you know, whatever, these huge military communities where lots of people have bought a house and now they got them on the market because they move every two years. You don't have that issue. You're dealing with more direct consumers that are non-military. So that's going to help you make money on the resale because the market doesn't get glutted. It doesn't get full. And so, you know, so for instance, my buddies in the Navy that are,

Starting point is 00:30:54 in San Diego, they do real well on the house, right? But if you move out in the middle of a cornfield in Kansas and there's nobody there but other military people, you're going to lose your butt on the house. Yeah. So just be careful with that kind of stuff. Now, again, your situation, because unique to the Coast Guard,

Starting point is 00:31:11 it's going to be very different because obviously it's residing mainly around the coast. And so, duh. And so, yeah, that puts you in a different thing. And so I think in most cases it's not going to apply to you. You're going to make money.

Starting point is 00:31:27 So buying is going to be a good idea. So the answer to your question just stands, get it paid off as fast as possible. Be sure when you buy next time you pay cash and pay it off. If you don't pay it off as soon as possible. And every time just move your equity from place to place to place. And then when you someday land and retire and you land in the place you're going to stay in, you've got, I paid for house. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:31:46 Part of me, Dave, would be so tempted to rent in the least. in the place where, like, had the bare minimum where we could live. Like, this is good for us for right now. My friends in the military always say, yeah, but there's a psychological component. You get moved every few years. It's important to have tent stakes. And I get that, but there's a balance, right? You don't need the Taj Mahal, but you really don't want to be camping either.

Starting point is 00:32:11 Yeah, yeah, there's a balance there. So it's hard on mama. Yeah. It's not hard on the spouses, kids. They need to have a home. Yeah. And you're doing this for 20 years. So you're not Bedouins.

Starting point is 00:32:20 Yeah. You're just in the military. So they do live in tents. But, yeah, but the thought of putting five different houses on the market over the course of 20 years, drive me crazy. If you're in, if you're a corporate gypsy, you've got the same thing, though. Yeah, that's true. If you're in a corporate setting and they move you every little, ever so often, and you're bouncing city to city going up the ladder in corporate America. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:32:38 You've got to be able to sell the house because the market you're in. You can't be buying in a dead butt market, some kind of market where there's not any activity because it's not going to increase in value. And then you've got 273 days on the market. Nine months you're looking at this stupid thing. And you're all going to end up renting somewhere else. Yeah, yep, because you can't get your house. Because you can't get in. You're going to move twice in those foot.

Starting point is 00:32:59 So it just becomes messy. And I get the psychological, like, if somebody's telling you when to be where, where you're going to live, what you're going to do, when you get what you got to wear, I get the idea of I have to have one thing that's my own is just being careful about that thing, not completely owning you again, right? Exactly. I get it. But, man, that's tough.

Starting point is 00:33:17 But it also, you know, you can't apply. The TikTok version of culture, everybody ought to buy real estate. No, not really. Yeah. Not really. There's certain times you don't. It's not a good idea. Real estate's not good when you're playing a short game.

Starting point is 00:33:33 Short game, real estate's stupid. Yeah. So it gets you caught. It's a problem. Devin is in Oklahoma City. Hi, Devin. How are you? Hey, Dave.

Starting point is 00:33:42 How are you today? Better than I deserve. How can we help? Well, I am a pastor, and I wanted to pick your brain on a possible career move. I make $40,000 a year. And I was thinking about moving into a different career, either in plumbing or home remodel, and I just had some concerns about where we're at financially and wanted to see how you would go about doing that.

Starting point is 00:34:04 I mean, plumbing's basically the same job as a pastor, isn't it? Yeah. I guess in one area of thinking. Oh, my gosh. Wow, that's an interesting move. So you just burn out on pastoring? What? Yeah, my wife and I, we're coming out of college, we're both 28 years old, and we had several jobs right after the other that were all just really hard. And, you know, the old expression sheep bite. So that's just, we had some hard time. It's so spiritually we're needing to take a step back. And I like working with my hands, and one day I want to own my own business. And so those were the areas I was thinking of. Yeah. Well, they do, and that's a shame, but they do. You're right.

Starting point is 00:34:52 Okay, well, the question is, how can you make the conversion without it being some kind of a leap? Conversion is not the right word. How can you make the transition without it being some kind of a leap? Yeah, poor choice. Yeah, but the, so, I mean, like, I don't want you to go make nothing to get to be a plumber. Let's start as an intern or doing stuff on the weekends or whatever to learn to do that. I don't want you to start from ground zero with no jobs as home remodel. Have you done home remodeling?

Starting point is 00:35:23 No, sir. I would be starting from nothing. Okay. All right. Do you know someone in the business? I have some ideas of where I could find some people. I want you to edge in and go learn the business somewhere before you just open a business. Yes, sir.

Starting point is 00:35:43 I was thinking of specifically with plumbing or remodeling starting as just working with someone else first. and then moving that direction. So if you had someone that hired you that you don't know anything about remodeling and you're going to go to work from, do you have any idea what they would pay you? No, sir. In our area in Oklahoma City, I mean, I'm assuming it, you know, making $40,000 a year. You could probably make that, yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Starting point is 00:36:10 I make that shoveling drywall, yeah. Exactly. So I wasn't as concerned about that. My wife and I are, we just finished Baby Step 2 yesterday. So as long as you're making the same money, you're making now and you're making it instantaneously, there's no change to your family other than you shifted what you do every day? Yes, I think so.

Starting point is 00:36:32 Mathematically, if you make $40,000 as a plumber working for a plumber, or you make $40,000 working for a home remodel person, and you make $40,000 now, you just changed jobs mathematically. Okay. Doesn't affect it at all, agreed? I agree. I just wanted to make sure that that was actually. I wasn't just fooling myself and, you know, having rose-colored glasses about... Well, rose-colored glasses would be, I don't know anything about remodeling,

Starting point is 00:36:58 and I just bought a hammer, and I opened a remodeling company. That's fair. That would be rose-colored glasses. That would be a fool. But I talk to those sometimes, but you're not it. And so, no, you know, so I want you to, if you can make the same money and make your change and then begin to learn a craft in an... effort to say five years from now I'm going to make the move into my own space, then I'm fine with

Starting point is 00:37:26 that. And there's nothing to say you can't serve in the church for the rest of your life. Most of us do. And sometimes those ministries are as effective as staff. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio. Dr. John Saloni, Ramsey Personality, number one bestselling author, is my co-host today. Sarah is in Baton Rouge. Hi, Sarah. How are you? Hi, I'm good.

Starting point is 00:38:00 Thank you. Better than I deserve, right? Yeah. Amen. How can we help? So I am a divorced, single mom of two boys. I am their primary caregiver. And one day I would like to remarry, but I am slated to inherit at least like $5 million of

Starting point is 00:38:20 today. value. Hopefully I won't inherit it for another 20 years. But I just wanted to know y'all's thoughts on a pre-nup, if that was something that would be good for my situation or I wanted to know what y'all thought about that. In your situation, I do recommend it. Full disclosure, when I first started the show, I said, never get a pre-nup. If you like stuff more than the person, don't get married. Marriage is hard enough, right? That was kind of my stance. But then, after doing about, I don't know, two decades of financial coaching and crisis counseling where I found a bunch of weirdos involved. I changed my stance on pre-ups. And the reason I changed it was what I discovered in

Starting point is 00:39:02 actual reality out here walking around in the wild is that where there is a dramatic amount of money difference or just a dramatic amount of money. Right. The pre-nup not only helps the actual married couple but more importantly it helps the weirdos in their family I didn't think about that and so like you marry a beautiful wonderful man and cousin Eddie shows up and wants to open a pizza parlor with your money like a day after the honeymoon right that's the crap that happens and then your beautiful wonderful man just goes cousin Eddie I got a pre-nup I can't say nothing and you just look at cousin Eddie and you just look at Cousin Eddie and go, you can have a biscuit, and then we're going to send you on

Starting point is 00:39:51 your way. And, you know, that you can just, you can do it because the weirdos in one ring or two rings or three rings out, sometimes it's the parents, sometimes it's the kids, sometimes it's cousin Eddie. I don't know who it is, but the weirdos were the, and then what happens is they drive a wedge between you and your spouse. Right. Relational.

Starting point is 00:40:10 That's what I didn't want to happen. And the pre-nup is not to protect you from this wonderful man you meet. He's probably okay. That's the goal. Yeah. But, I mean, that really, you probably got pretty good taste, right? And so he's probably not the problem. It might be, but, you know, but the $5 million versus he's got a normal net worth of, you know,

Starting point is 00:40:31 four or $500,000 or nothing or whatever. And he's just a good dude that works hard and saves his money and pays his bills and whatever. And, you know, and you guys love Jesus and you're going to church and life is good, right? Everything's good. So y'all will be fine. but this just keeps everybody clear, but you shouldn't do that on small amounts of money. Like I had one lady call up and say, her boyfriend wanted a pre-nup for his 1967 Mustang. And I'm like, hey, don't marry this guy.

Starting point is 00:41:04 He likes cars more than he likes you. A stupid car? Really? No, that's just, that's planning your divorce right there. That's different. All right, Sarah, I want to ask Dave a question. on your behalf, okay? Great.

Starting point is 00:41:18 Dave, if you're Sarah and you somebody set you up and you roll your eyes and you'll go and you have a great time, you go out again and you go out again, when would you sit down and say, hey, I got $5 million in an account.

Starting point is 00:41:36 Would that be something you wait until you're engaged to talk about? Would that be something because my... I would not get engaged. Before they knew... No, no. It has been way before that. But I mean, the same time you would talk about anything in your account like you know let's start talking about money well you don't do that on the first date that'd be weird you know but i mean once you start talking about using language in your sentences about spending a building a future together building a

Starting point is 00:42:02 future together then you start going well that includes let's talk about your crazy mother yeah let's talk about your uh let's talk about you know what do you feel about dead i can't stand dead i did that Dave Ramsey thing. You know, some people do that on the first date. That's strange, but the, but yeah, that, I think it's strange. But, yeah, I think as you're, as you're getting serious in the relationship, you start talking about the important things. I want to know exactly where you stand on religion, on money, on in-laws, on kids. They're going to know about your kids immediately. And you don't have the $5 million right now anyway. It's off in the future somewhere. Yes, sir.

Starting point is 00:42:42 And hypothetically, something could go sideways and you didn't even get it. Absolutely. Yeah. You know, I definitely try to be a good steward of the money that I'm blessed with. And I know that this is not money that I've earned. So I don't expect it. Yeah. And so I just, you know, and I would just say it has nothing to do with you.

Starting point is 00:43:02 I've just gotten good counsel that says all the people in our lives are, it gives us a boundary with them if we have this done. Yeah. I think when you start talking about this. important things in life the money would be on the list yeah not because money's important but because what it represents yeah and i don't know what do you think you're the phd in counseling when should you bring it up no i think you're right i i i think i would this is me personally i think i would always be haunted by did that accelerate our relationship did that get you more excited to marry me which for myself is is my own red flag it would be a

Starting point is 00:43:42 me red flag, not a them red flag, but I don't know, there's something like, I'm a romantic at heart, and there's something cool about my wife getting married and her being like, oh, by the way, when I told you we were well off, like, we're, here's the number. That sounds awesome, that's not reality. No, that's some kind of book

Starting point is 00:44:00 you read. Fiction book, yeah. Exactly. So yeah, I think you have to put on the table, and I think you have to get through the initial discomfort of maybe him thinking, oh, I wanted to be the macho breadwinner and suddenly I'm marrying somebody who's a multi-millionaire or vice versa, you putting the discomfort on the table. I'm nervous to say this out loud because I'm afraid you're going to like me more just because I've got this inherited well. Or it's just going to cause weirdness. Yeah, it's just going to cause weirdness. Yeah. Money does that. But it all relationships

Starting point is 00:44:31 have to get through weirdness and awkwardness and just an uncomfortable conversation. So it's just another one in a long list of uncomfortable conversations. Anybody getting together is going to have to have. Yeah. And constant. Yeah, it's always going on. Yeah, that's right, yeah. So, Sarah, you know, it's interesting. I tell people when we're just talking about money in general that wealth magnifies everything, the good and the bad. So, like, if someone has a temper and they become wealthy, they become a bully, crazy.

Starting point is 00:45:02 If someone is compassionate and generous and they become wealthy, they become what we call a philanthropist. And they're constantly known for the generosity. that becomes their personal brand you know and so if crazy is in your family and all of us have crazy in our family if you don't think you have crazy in your family it's you yeah so i mean everybody's got crazy so crazy in your family is magnified and so that's what i'm looking at with this five million it's going to magnify everything it's going to magnify the awkwardness that john is talking about in the dating relationship and you know what you just said something important i would actually relationally lead with here's who i am

Starting point is 00:45:41 I am. I'm a person who tips like crazy. I'm a person who gives to my church or to charitable organizations. That's who I am. I would lead with the identity part early on in a relationship as we get to know each other. I'm a person who doesn't borrow money. That way. That's right. I'm a person who doesn't borrow money. I believe in saving money. I believe in living on a plan. That's right. And then. I plan my budget. I plan my time. Here's how much money I got. Yeah. And then later on. And oh, by the way, my mom and dad are rich. They left me a bunch of money when they die. So there you go. That's way down the list, though. Yeah. That's a good point. The question of the day is sponsored by

Starting point is 00:46:21 why refi private student loans in default can feel like you're stuck. But why refi works with borrowers, whether other lenders won't creating fixed rate plans tailored to your ability to pay. Go to yrefi.com slash Ramsey right now. The letter is Y-R-E-F-Y.com slash Ramsey, not in all states. Today's question comes from Abigail in Indiana. Abigail writes, my husband passed away very recently. I'm sorry.

Starting point is 00:46:51 I have a problem with family and friends who have started asking for personal items that belong to him. Some of the requests are for sentimental reasons, but there are also requests for things that are of monetary value. I'm still grieving and not ready to make these decisions. decisions right now. What is the morally right thing to do? I'm still grieving and I'm not ready to make these decisions right now. That's right. No. Or I'm not doing anything. Am I giving away anything for nine months and I'll get back to you. Yeah, I'll tell you what, I'm keeping a little

Starting point is 00:47:27 list and I'll put you down the list, but right now I'm just crying. You have no moral obligation. None. Whatsoever. Zero. to start handing out stuff um especially um it just feels like vultures circling does feel gross like yeah and i want grandma's china yeah oh brother it's like a bad hallmark movie um and by the way if if if somebody says oh i was really hoping to get that though then they've crossed their name off the list the friend that says hey we used to go hunting together and he had this awesome rifle. Can I buy it? I would love to buy it from you. Um, or when you're ready. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you say, hey, in nine months, I'm not ready. It's like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah,

Starting point is 00:48:17 absolutely. I'm going to make sure all of his other friends know. That's, that's somebody put a star by on their name. Um, but if someone's like, oh, really, I thought. I deserve this. Yeah. You deserve to hit the road. Jack. Never. Yeah. Man, gross, gross. That's hard. People. This is gross. And she says passed away very recently. Yeah, this isn't like a year. It sounds like a month ago or it's like a couple weeks ago it's like three days later here they come want a casserole dish back and i want grandma's bible yeah honey come on wow hmm yeah that's um so the the other side of this is funny Sharon's dad is 96 getting ready to be 97 in perfect health in perfect mind he's a wonderful man and he is so funny he's like everybody gets you a sticky note and put something

Starting point is 00:49:04 That's how my grandparents were. And so you go through the whole house or freaking sticky notes on everything. That's how my grandparents were. It was like, oh, somebody got to that one before us. You had to do it underneath it. You had to do it underneath it. Oh, it's on the back of the picture.

Starting point is 00:49:15 So you had to look. On the back of the, it's so funny. It's like, yeah. But hey, I actually like that. It's first come first serve. You want to come visit me? Well, and he's doing it. He's initiating it while he's alive.

Starting point is 00:49:29 That's right. That's like his will. That's what my grandmother is. A part of his will. Yeah. It's just, it's funny. yeah like y'all want something here's some sticky notes no it keeps the fighting down later i'm trying to just imagine the conversation

Starting point is 00:49:44 of me calling even one of my closest friends spout wife the chances of me asking for something is zero i just can't imagine i'm trying to figure out how would you have that call how but how would you the only conversation is what i can give how can i what can i do how can i by the way he had that shirt i really wanted like i can i have a Can I have a sofa? A fish and tackle. Jeez, Louise. Oh, Lee.

Starting point is 00:50:07 What are you people? It's unbelievable. Tiffany is in Cleveland, Ohio. Hi, Tiffany, what's up? Hi, Dave. Hi, Dr. John. Thank you so much for taking my call. This is exciting.

Starting point is 00:50:19 Exciting to have you. How can we help? Great. Yeah, so my husband and I, along with my mom, we are planning to move to Florida to be closer to both of our families. We unfortunately lost my dad back in December, and so this move was put as close to my brother and his family, and then my husband's family just moved down to the same area back last fall.

Starting point is 00:50:37 Wow. My question is my, yeah, my husband and I, we are both 43. We are in baby step two. We've been tackling our debt very hard this year. We've already paid off about $25,000. We have $65,000 consumer debt left. So my question is, when we get ready to make this move, because we do have two houses that we have to get cleaned out and sold,

Starting point is 00:50:59 when we are ready to start. Stop, stop, stop, stop. We don't have anything. Do you own a house? No, we have a mortgage on our home. I mean, you have a house, you and your husband have a house, and then your mother-in-law has a house. My mom has a house.

Starting point is 00:51:15 Okay. So there's not, we don't have two houses. She has a house and you have a house. Yes, correct. Okay, all right. But you're going to help her with the clean out and all that goes to. But this is not, we're not turning this into a commune. No, no, no, no.

Starting point is 00:51:30 They were married to 55 years. They have 55 years with the stuff. Oh, God. And hoarder. Yes, I got you. On an acre of property and four buildings. So we have some work to do there. Okay.

Starting point is 00:51:41 But that's just helping her move. Okay. And then you've got to sell your house. So what is your house worth? So our house, we, right now, we're anywhere between 100 to 120. We're expecting to make us a profit on the sale of our home. Oh, so it pays off the 65 and you got some money to move with.

Starting point is 00:51:58 Correct. Good. Which was my question is, do you suggest, that when we are ready to, you know, get a little closer to this, which the goal is to start working on this in January, that we pause our baby steps and stack up cash, knowing that there is going to be expenses to move from Ohio to go. They're going to give you a check when you sell your house. Right.

Starting point is 00:52:19 You don't need a stack up cash. You're getting $100,000. Okay. Right? I wasn't sure. Right? Yes, we're going to get the money. I just didn't know if to be proactive to have a little bit of saved up, you know,

Starting point is 00:52:31 before we do that. So I wasn't sure. Well, here's the issue. Let's pretend that you'd pay, that you save up $10,000, okay? Yes. And so you don't pay $10,000 worth of debt. When you sell your house, that's $10,000 more of debt you have to pay. Correct.

Starting point is 00:52:50 So you didn't really gain anything. No, so it's like six of one half of the other. And that's what I wasn't sure on. Like I was, I think just looking, crunching the numbers too much and just driving myself nuts. So what I would do is, is. is just make the move 100% debt-free and have an emergency fund. If you have enough left after that to put a down payment on a house in Florida, if not, you may have to rent for a couple of years and save up your down payment in Florida,

Starting point is 00:53:15 but you're debt-free with an emergency fund. Well, here's the other part of the question. With the sale of my mom's home, her and my dad did everything correctly, she is debt-free. She has already discussed in gifting us on the sale of her home, gifting us money for the down payment for the house in Florida. Is she going to be living with you? Yes.

Starting point is 00:53:40 Oh, complicated. Oh, yeah, a little complicated. Yeah, no, a lot. Do you have siblings? Yeah, that's why they're moving. We do. Yes, and I have an older brother. This is something we have discussed.

Starting point is 00:53:53 This was this process of moving was something that my dad had very much wanted to do. That was the goal. unfortunately his health just didn't hold out for them to realize it all in writing just to make sure everybody's clear yes we're getting it so if you take a portion of is it just you and your brother yes it's just my brother and I okay so if you take a let's pretend that there's a half million dollars of inheritance when your mom passes away okay your brother's going to get 250 you're going to get 250 but she's going to give you of that 250 150 up front before she does. Correct. Then that uncomplicates it greatly. If she only has 150 and it all goes in your

Starting point is 00:54:35 house and your brother gets screwed unless you resell your house when she dies, this is not a good plan. No, and we've looked at it with the financial advisor she has. There is enough right now without factoring in any interest that grows on any of her IRAs and all that. Your brother would be easily getting half without touching your house or you live in. Correct. That makes it a lot cleaner. Then all she's doing is advancing you part of your inheritance, and she's going to live with you in return for the advance. Yeah. Okay. That's cool. That's cool.

Starting point is 00:55:10 Yeah, but that gives you a real incentive to get everything cleaned up and shiny, and let's get it all sold off. Yeah, let's load up the truck and head to Beverly Hills, that is, swimming pools, movie stars. Black, gold, takes his tea. Got to be old to know what that is. You've got to be really old right there. In the lobby of Ramsey's Solutions on the debt-free stage, Eladio and Carla are with us. Hey, guys.

Starting point is 00:55:43 How are you? Hi, John. Welcome. Good to have you guys. Where do you live? We're in Los Angeles, California. Ah, fun. Well, welcome to Nashville.

Starting point is 00:55:52 Good to have you. And here to do a debt-free scream all the way across the nation. So how much debt did you two pay off? With your advice and with God's grace, we paid off $312,000. Wow! How long did this take? Five years. Five years? Very cool.

Starting point is 00:56:10 Wow, it's amazing, guys. And your way to, y'all are impressive. Your range of income during that five years? It was 100 to 130,000. Cool. And what do you guys do for a living? I work for UPS and also in a restaurant. and I'm a physical therapist assistant very cool what kind of debt was this

Starting point is 00:56:32 312,000 it's the mortgage the mortgage you have a house in Los Angeles that's paid for yes y'all really are weirdos I love it amazing guys great weirdos awesome what's the house worth about 600,000 yeah amazing congratulations thank you thank you you guys you know that in California, it's illegal to own your house. Yes, we've heard. Oh my gosh, this is great, y'all. I'm so proud of you. What in the world.

Starting point is 00:57:05 This is so cool. And how old are you two? We're 39. 39 years old. You're not even 40? You're not even 40? Not yet. In Los Angeles, California.

Starting point is 00:57:16 How much in your nest egg, in your savings, your retirement savings? We haven't checked. We haven't checked. We forgot about. About. We have to check. About.

Starting point is 00:57:25 We're not millionaires yet. Not 400K then? No. Okay, because there's 400K with a 600K house. It would be babysat a millionaire. All right. But you're on your way at 40 years old. You're almost there and you're saving like crazy.

Starting point is 00:57:39 He's working two jobs. You're doing everything. Very neat. And you paid off your home in five years. It's worth 600K. Tell me how y'all got started on all this Ramsey stuff. So how we got started seven years ago. It was, you know,

Starting point is 00:57:55 a coworker that introduced us to the baby steps. His name's David, and he got me started on the financial piece online, the self-study. And so I try to get my husband on board. He resisted, you know, he wanted to do his own thing. But what finally did it was the biblical principles that you teach. So, yeah, you know, his word, God's word never returned empty, and the word just started to transform and edify our lives. and I was just starting my Christian walk at that time.

Starting point is 00:58:25 So, yeah, it was really the word. What church do you all attend in Los Angeles? It's in Pomona, and it's called Rios de Awaviva. Spanish service. Oh, Spanish church, okay, all right. And so obviously you're a Hispanic community. What country were you from? From Mexico.

Starting point is 00:58:42 Mexico. Awesome. Very cool. What part? Guerrero. Oh, yeah, fun. Okay, cool, cool. Good deal.

Starting point is 00:58:47 So what was it like your wife comes in and says, hey, I went to church, you can't buy anything, no clothes, cars, we're getting out of debt. It's kind of hard to do that. But she made it. Yeah. What do you do for UPS? I work in the airport. Okay.

Starting point is 00:59:10 So just moving the cans to the airplane. And then what do you do in the restaurant? Like help to the servers. Okay. All right. Okay. So here's what's important. Um, and you're a, you're a physician, you're a physical therapist assistant. Yeah, a tech assistant. So y'all, neither of y'all are working executive jobs. No. You're not working upper management jobs. Y'all are out there grinding it out. Yeah. And we started from nothing like poverty. Like we were living off of his income as a cook before, before he like moved up. And now, yeah. So you're throwing boxes and helping servers. And you're. And you're.

Starting point is 00:59:52 I was in school. Dealing with egos, right? No, yeah. I mean, you're helping clients. Y'all are grinding it out. Yeah, he's had two jobs forever. But you know as well as anybody. The story is you cannot get ahead.

Starting point is 01:00:09 You can't do it. It's impossible. You can't do it. Nobody can do it unless you are one of these special unicorn jobs. And you guys just did it. Anyway, hold my, hold my beer. Here we go. I mean, this is incredible.

Starting point is 01:00:24 Glory to God. Amen. Way to go, God. Yeah, God. I'm speechless right now. It's so cool. What you all have accomplished is so amazing. Yeah, you're heroes.

Starting point is 01:00:34 Thank you. You know, you have. You've changed your whole family tree. And your proof that the great American dream is alive and well. Yes, it is. Very proud of you. Anything is possible with Christ. Amen.

Starting point is 01:00:46 Well, and two jobs for five years also. Grinding and grinding and grinding. The diligent prosper, proverbs says. So there we go. Excellence in the ordinary overtime. That's diligence. Yeah. Way to go, y'all.

Starting point is 01:00:59 Way to go. Impressive. All right. So when one of your friends comes up and he's making fun of you when you're moving some boxes around at the airport about you bringing your sandwich so you can get out of debt, right? And he goes, ah, you can't do that. You say, yeah, you can. All you got to do is, what do you tell them the main thing you got to do to get out of debt?

Starting point is 01:01:18 Well, just don't spend anything. If you don't need it, you don't have to spend money. Would you please run for Congress? Please, please. Please, we need you desperately hell out of it. We need you, man. You don't need it, just don't buy it. Ta-da.

Starting point is 01:01:38 In the House of the Wies are stores of choice food and oil, but a foolish man devours all he has. Wise people save money. You got it, man. You're a wise man. You're a wise man. What's the one thing that... You married a wise woman.

Starting point is 01:01:50 You wish you could. could have bought maybe his a truck before he still doesn't have it but yeah he's been wanting a truck now you can save up and get one pretty quick huh yeah we had to cut a lot of things do what we had to cut a lot of things yeah now now now you what's the first big thing now that you don't have a house payment what's the thing you're going to go buy right now we're just going to do a couple house projects pay cash for that and travel a little bit more okay good good breathe a little yeah Because you've been getting it. Yeah, you've been shoveling hard.

Starting point is 01:02:24 Yeah. So, way to go, you two. I'm very proud of you. You're heroes. You're amazing. Those two beautiful children there have had their whole lives changed, and your grandchildren and your great-grandchildren's lives have been changed because of you paying a price to win.

Starting point is 01:02:37 You're amazing. Very cool. All right, bring them up and introduce them. I want to meet them. What are their names and ages? Amy, she's 10. And this is Kate. She's seven.

Starting point is 01:02:47 Oh, they're beautiful. All right. Very cool. Very cool. I think they're daddy's girls I'm about to say something When you watch If you go back and watch this YouTube

Starting point is 01:02:57 Watching a dad Smile that big as he watches his daughters Is one of my favorite things In the whole wide world Seeing a dad so proud of his two beautiful daughters Amazing man you guys are just Yeah we're very proud of them For being with us during our struggles

Starting point is 01:03:12 This is so cool Living this experience with us Yeah they'll remember They'll remember even being here And doing that weird debt-free scream thing know that we're, he'll be a guy in Tennessee. Yeah. But that marked the time.

Starting point is 01:03:24 This is the time. Your whole thing has changed now. It's all changed and you did it. Very, very well done. Ready for the sandwich generation. Amen. Sure. Amen.

Starting point is 01:03:32 Well, there's that. But we can put some meat on the sandwich. I'm just saying. All right. Very good. All right. Aladio, Carla, Amy, and Kate from Los Angeles. $600,000 house is paid for.

Starting point is 01:03:45 $312,000 in debt paid off in five years. working at UPS and as a cook in a restaurant. And she is a physical therapist assistant or PT? PTA. PTA. Okay, perfect. Yeah, cool. Count it down.

Starting point is 01:04:01 Let's hear a debt-free scream. Ready? Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Yeah! Wow! Boom! yes it never gets old i've been doing this 30 years and i never ceased to get choked up

Starting point is 01:04:28 especially when somebody that works that's stinking hard to make this happen that on gotten that's incredible absolutely incredible you know when you're tackling you know when you're tackling dead or you're building wealth people can often forget about one more important step and that's while you're playing defense you can play off i mean you're playing offense you need to also play defense and that's insurance having the right coverage as opposed to too little or too much and not getting junk coverage and all that stuff skimping on insurance or buying stupid insurance these things will kill you they'll mess up your math big time so how do you know will you take

Starting point is 01:05:15 the free coverage checkup at ramsysolutions dot com it's a free online resource that creates a personalized insurance action plan unique to you and your situation makes an overly confusing topic easy to understand gives you clear next steps go to ramsysolutions dot com slash checkup to take the coverage checkup or click the link in the description if you're listening on youtube or podcast amy is in philadelphia hi amy how are you i'm good how are you better than i deserve what's Great. I have a question. I have a rental property, and I've had a tenant who's been in there for three years, and she just lost her job, and she wasn't able to pay August rent, and I'm trying to follow up with September rent. And I want to be, you know, aware of her situation, but I also just wanted to see maybe how you would handle, you know, not getting paid her portion of the rent and what I can do to work with her. Her portion of the rent? Yeah, so there's three tenants, and there's three tenants, and I just charge a monthly fee. However, they pay for it. They pay for it.

Starting point is 01:06:35 So they just split it up in three ways is how they've been paying for it. So the other two are paying their rent, but the other one, you know, she lost her job. so do you have a lease with the three of them in total or a lease with each individual um three of them in total okay so the only way you evict is all of them correct and the other people are sitting there thinking their current uh i think because they think they paid their part and they think you're okay yeah i talked to her and see if she wanted to bring the out like I should bring the other tenants into it. Oh, definitely.

Starting point is 01:07:19 They're on the lease. They're going to get evicted with her. Right. Yeah, so they needed to have already been in the loop, like as immediately as soon as you were. So, okay, guys, here's the thing. The three of you have together told me you're going to pay me X number of dollars. You chose to split it up three ways. Okay?

Starting point is 01:07:41 So you are behind on your rent group. okay because of her losing her job now do you guys want to come do you guys want to come together and cover her until she gets a job or how are we going to work this out right you need to sit down with the three of them are you near the property physically i'm not um i'm about two hours away okay then get on get a phone call with all three of them on the phone and say here's what's going on i probably should have brought you into the loop a little bit sooner because you probably feel like you're current and you're not. Mm-hmm.

Starting point is 01:08:19 Okay. So now, then from that position, once we've gotten clarity on where we all stand, that either we all three pay all the rent or we all three can't stay. Long-term, that's our solution. Now, then from that point, everybody's on the same page. Everybody can talk, and then you can decide how much mercy and grace you want to dole out. okay you've already doled out a month of one-third right okay and you're getting ready to dole out another month of one-third like right today correct right so this is this how long

Starting point is 01:09:00 are you going to go along with this before she goes and gets a job doing door dash and pays her dad gum rent yeah um i i guess i don't know that you need to know you're going to get taken advantage of if you don't know. I don't care how much generosity or mercy you want to extend. It doesn't bother me a bit because I do the same thing. We had a tenant that had cancer and we didn't charge them rent for four months. But we said at the outset when the chemo starts, we're going to give you four months and let's see how this goes. You've been a good tenant for three years. We're just going to forgive the rent. We're not going to charge you. You've got enough to deal with. I don't know any money on the house. You can live here free for four months. And after four months,

Starting point is 01:09:44 we're going to revisit in the third month before we decide how long, but we're not going to do this for eight years while you go through chemo. Right. I guess, like, it would say for me would probably be three months because I do have the security deposit, which would cover, like, her third, like if she didn't pay for three months. Yeah. Okay. So, you know, it might sound like, here's what I want to do.

Starting point is 01:10:09 The first thing I want to do, shock them. Stick them with a cattle prod, all right? and get everybody on the same page where they're going, oh, no, oh, crap, right? And we go, okay, wait a minute, we are all getting ready to have to move because June doesn't have a job, right? Or whatever her name is, right? And so we got to figure this out together. We have a problem, not June, all right? And not Amy.

Starting point is 01:10:30 Amy doesn't have a problem. Amy's getting ready to get her house back. So now, now based on that, guys, here's what I'm willing to do. You guys get together and figure out a way to cover September and October. between June working part-time jobs while she's looking for a full-time job and you two chipping in and I'll forgive her portion for August. Okay. Or something like that.

Starting point is 01:10:59 You can offer a gift, but only in context of a limited arrangement. Does that make sense to you? Yeah, it does. It does. I mean, I've already gone without in August. So, I don't know. Yeah, and you're probably going to go without it in September unless you get on the phone today. Right.

Starting point is 01:11:20 But you guys can catch me up a little bit later in September, but the three of you, between a part-time job and the two of you catching on to what's going on here, need to come up with September's rent. And you two go ahead and send me your two-thirds. We've got to come up with June's third. And then y'all figure out between now and October how to do it, and y'all get current and stay current. And in return, I'll forgive one-third of this just to try to help. y'all make the corner. But she needs to go get a job. Listen, there's not a program where she stays free anywhere. Homeless shelter. Right. But that's it. And Amy, her roommates, her friends are going to be

Starting point is 01:11:59 an infinitely more influential voice in her life than yours. You have an on-off switch. You have an either-or switch. They can sit down with her and say, hey, we love you. We're going to help you with your resume. We're going to call our friends. We'll see if we can get you a job here. But if you're looking for it to be graceful for life change, they're going to be closer to that. You just have a big hammer. And you can be kind and gentle but firm.

Starting point is 01:12:26 Exactly. I love that. Okay. And you're not being firm right now. You've been very vague and unclear. Gotcha. Because right now they think they're okay, and that's not fair to them.

Starting point is 01:12:37 The two that paid their rent, they think everything's cool. Right. And the way you've got this lease. structured it ain't cool they're in jeopardy too right so um it's all it's not again we're not trying to be mean but first thing I want to is throw cold water and everybody gets awake and now we've turned the lights on in the room and now that the lights are on in the room everybody can talk and we go okay now how can we all work together to solve this in a gentle

Starting point is 01:13:00 and kind compassionate way but a very effective business-like way at the same time and so we're going to solve the problem we're going to solve for the problem and and and then you're going to put some of it on them. You're going to help a little. I don't know if you give up August or not. That was a suggestion of mine. It's not a mandatory thing. You're not a horrible person if you don't. You're not a horrible person if you give up her third for August and September. I don't care. But I do care for a lack of clarity. You're going to get yourself in a bind and you're not being fair to them. And I do care the lack of clarity also on no limitations. There has to be an end of this because there's no place if you got cancer or you don't have a job. There's no place that

Starting point is 01:13:40 you live for free ultimately. I mean, we can be kind for, but this is not forever. It's not a, this is not an infinite spectrum. There has to be at some point, there's an end to it. And that's where people remember the story 25 years later when they don't put limits on stuff. That puts us our of The Ramsey Show in the books. Welcome back at the Ramsey Show in the books.

Starting point is 01:14:10 Wins Credit Union Studio. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, number one, bestselling author, is my co-host. Samantha is in California. Hi, Samantha. How are you? Hi there. Thanks for taking my call. I'm good.

Starting point is 01:14:24 Sure. What's up? How can we help? So I've listened to you and followed your plan for years. We're currently on baby step six. I'm employed, and I also co-own a business with my husband. Unfortunately, we're probably getting divorced due to infidelity on his side. And I will receive a substantial settlement after the division of our assets.

Starting point is 01:14:45 With the divorce money, I'll be paying off the rest of the mortgage that I'll be debt-free. My question is, with the remaining money, should I keep my lifestyle the same so that it doesn't change much for my three young kids in me, or should I save it and invest it for the future and just live off of my income? Okay, so one of the things that's being divested is your half of the business. that you run together correct yes but you're still going to be working there no so he would need to buy me out of the business okay so what will you be doing for a living then so I am a nurse so I have a good income from that oh so you're all you currently are nursing and working in the business yes oh okay I

Starting point is 01:15:34 misunderstood all right I'm back with you now and so the um Okay, so what do you make as a nurse? So I make about 90,000 a year growth. Good. That's excellent. It's a great career, by the way. You get picking shoes what you want to do when you want to do it and make a lot of money. And you can live on that, I assume, with a paid-for house.

Starting point is 01:16:00 Yes, yeah, I've run through the finances and we would be fine. Okay. And how old are your babies? They are five, six, and seven. Okay. and if you can live on $90,000 in a paid-for house, that is not the lifestyle that the five-year-old is accustomed to? So they go to a private Christian school.

Starting point is 01:16:23 They're in all kinds of sports. We travel a lot. So it's just it would be cutting back on some things. It would just be like a little bit tighter for what they're used to. Who's paying for the Christian? you're all splitting the Christian school as to the divorce? That's a good question. He doesn't love the idea that they're there,

Starting point is 01:16:49 so it would probably fall on me. He would rather than be at a public school. Well, you haven't negotiated the settlement, yeah. I don't care what he wants. He decided he wanted somebody else, and that takes a lot of the care of what he wants out of the whole thing, so I don't give a crap what he wants. The, once he decides not to behave, my care for him's gone away.

Starting point is 01:17:08 So the, all right, so what do you guys make now? What's your current household income? It's hard with the business. I've, like, run the numbers for the actual business valuation, and it's about $1.7 million. The valuation, but I mean, what's your income? Correct. I'm going to a couple hundred a year, and then you're making $90 a year. Yeah, probably about that.

Starting point is 01:17:36 Right. But he's going to be paying child support, correct? Of course. Yes. And substantial in California with a $250,000 income. And what is the lump sum you're getting? How much money? What I've calculated out to be would be, like, after paying off the house and keeping the equity in the house, because I'm assuming I'm going to hopefully be able to stay in the house, I would get around $650,000. Okay. So if we pretend like that doesn't exist and we can. count child support, and you live on 90,000.

Starting point is 01:18:10 We deal with the Christian school and the divorce decree. He pays half and you pay half. I think you can trim some of the travel sports back and a little bit of the ultra-luxury travel back and get your life in a sustainable situation on $100,000 a year. That's what I would do. I would not touch the $6.50. I'd pay off the house, and then you ought to be able to live on $90, even in California. And believe me, the one of the one.

Starting point is 01:18:36 ones that are going to be more impacted by the lifestyle cut than anyone is you and they're going to take their cues from you they're five they don't they really don't like oh you mean we don't get to fly private you know that doesn't come up with a five year old right yeah um here's two things i want you to be one thing to be careful of and one thing to be super cognizant of okay the first thing is this you have calculated on the back of a napkin probably anxiously typing away at Excel sheets or however you're dealing with the stress of all of this, whatever number you've come up with will probably not be the final number. Right.

Starting point is 01:19:20 And the problem with that is if you have imagined that you're going to get a check for $1.2 million, pay off the $600,000 remaining on the house and put $650 grand, if you get a check for a million you're going to feel like he stole 200 grand from you your kids will feel it you'll feel it the whole thing will go south and so i want you to open be very open handed with the imaginary money you're playing with right now because you're going to they're going to get three different um evaluations of this business that might range all over the place in a in a divorce uh court or a mediator might tell you to take the average. Who knows how this rolls out. And so it's holding it very open handed. You're entering into a very messy, heartbreaking situation. Okay. And I get on your side trying to control

Starting point is 01:20:16 every variable because some guy just blew your life up. I get that impulse. And you want to take care of your kids. Mama bear's coming out. I get all that. But just hold the math part very loosely. Not because I want you to be weak in the negotiation. Not at all. Be firm and strong. But I want you to take everything in the negotiation. That's not the point. As a matter of fact, I'd be okay if you got 1.5 when you come out of this thing. So it suits me fine. He chose.

Starting point is 01:20:41 It's just an expensive decision what he made. And so the – because a divorce turns a marriage into a business transaction, an adversarial business transaction. Yeah, not a win-win business transaction, but adversarial. Yeah. And so child support, lump sums for businesses, alimony, all of those things. are on the table until they're not on the table and you agree to whatever you agree to in the settlement. But we start with, I'm holding a winning hand and you screwed up. That's where we

Starting point is 01:21:11 start. And so, and then we, you know, then we decide which cards we want to play, which chips we want to move to the center, those kinds of things, to John's point. But don't get all dialed in on a certain number and then only to find out that you missed one of your calculations. Or he has hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt you don't know about. And it's going to, who knows what plays out when people start opening up all their bank accounts a text messages etc here's the other thing i want you to be very careful of um people like to say things like i don't want my kids lives to change and you need to exhale that every part of their life is different now yep and so too late fully owning their sports is going to be different

Starting point is 01:21:55 their Saturday mornings are going to be different because now you're going to be working full time And so your ability to just hop in a car and go on a trip or to do this sport or that sport or everything's different now. And so trying to hang on to their life as it is and duct tape all this other stuff to it creates an angst in that house that those kids will just permeate their bodies. So exhaling and saying the life we had is over. What life do we want to build with my current salary, with the settlement, with our house or selling the house, whatever? We're solving for peace. Build something new and solve for peace. don't solve for trying to keep everything exactly the same as it was.

Starting point is 01:22:30 Because they know it's not the same. It's not the same. Because it's not the same. Buying or selling a home is a big deal. You definitely want an expert, someone who really does it, not just got their license. Your Aunt Sally's never sold a house, but she got a license. I don't want her in my corner. I want an expert in my corner.

Starting point is 01:22:55 The Ramsey Trusted program is the only one. way, to find a high-octane, high-protein top agent in your area that you can trust to help you make your home a blessing, not a burden. To find a local Ramsey Trusted Real Estate Pro for free, go to Ramsey Solutions.com slash agent or just click the description in the show notes. Shannon's in Iowa. Hi, Shannon. How are you? Hi, Dave and John. Thank you so much for taking my call today. It's truly an honor to talk to both of you. You too. What's up? Hey, I am actually hoping that you guys could provide a little bit of reassurance and maybe just be that good sounding board for my husband and I.

Starting point is 01:23:31 Okay. Just to give you some contacts, we are currently in Baby Step 6 thanks to your plans and practices, so thank you for everything you do. But I wanted to kind of get your guys' opinion. So my husband has currently been on a night shift for about 10 years now, and he currently brings home about 70% of our $220,000 income each year. The issue that we're running into is he is finally getting his breaking points. He's busted his back for the last 10 years.

Starting point is 01:24:05 He's just getting burnt out. We have four small kids at home. And he's just, you know, they're getting involved. What does he make if he goes to day shift? I'm sorry? What does he make? He makes 150 now. What's he make if he goes to day shift?

Starting point is 01:24:18 So it would be dramatically cut. So we're looking at almost 50% in a decrease. So it would be about $80,000. Okay. And you make $70? Yep, yep, around there. Okay, so you would live on $150 instead of $2.20, and you're in Baby Step 6. Correct.

Starting point is 01:24:36 How much is your house payment? It is $2,100. Well, I don't know why you couldn't do that in Iowa. Exactly. So just to give some contacts, I ran some numbers, and that is, you know, in the every dollar. That's still putting away $1,400 for extra payment because we're aggressively trying to get out of baby step six.

Starting point is 01:25:00 Yeah, what do you owe in your home? We owe $292, and it's valued at about $7.50. It's going to be a while. Going to be a while. Yeah, all right. Yep. That's okay. How old are you guys?

Starting point is 01:25:12 So my husband is 38. I'm 35. And then that is, we are very blessed with our employer that we do get end-of-year profit-sharing. So last year alone, it was about $25,000, which we... That was not in the $220 you gave me? That is not. No.

Starting point is 01:25:29 Oh, so that's not your real income. Your real income's $250. Yeah. All right. So, Shannon, here's the thing. Here's the thing. I would go to day shifts as soon as I could if I were you. Okay.

Starting point is 01:25:42 Under one big condition. Yeah. Both of us, look at the every-dollar budget. and agree, we're going to live on that. Yep. So you can't, you can't like, oh, surprise. No, we're not surprised. We're like grown-ups.

Starting point is 01:26:00 We're looking at the numbers. We are willing to live on this number instead of that number. Yep. And that's our Sunday tradition. We look at our every dollar budget every Sunday, and we are so in sync. And I think the... What does he do for a living? he is in the manufacturing world so he's in a factory a hot factory um okay so he's on the line he's

Starting point is 01:26:27 working on the line yeah okay yep very aggressive but he is he is uh a provider that's that's what he knows to do so he's i think he's just nervous and i show him the numbers but he doesn't believe me so i'm like you know what i'm going to call david john hey shannon this one's not about numbers no this is about worth and purpose Yep And putting away the spreadsheets And looking across the table And holding both of his hands

Starting point is 01:26:54 And looking at him in the eye And saying, honey, I'm so proud of you We did it We did it We're here You gave up Literally he's going to die younger Now it's trying to breathe

Starting point is 01:27:03 You're a good man He needs that more than he needs a spreadsheet From you right now Wonderful, wonderful man He needs that He needs that And by the way He put in his 10 years

Starting point is 01:27:13 He's going to go back to day shift for about seven or eight months and someone's going to take him for management and he's going double his salary right back he's putting his time right he's grounded out if he wants it he may not want that no he's sad he's like i just want to be home with my babies i want to be able to be you can do that and be a management make double you can do both yep you can do both so during the same day hours that you'll be on the line day hours so there's no shame in that so here's yeah john's right this is not about numbers and here's the transition when you're in baby steps one through three you're intense and you work nights and overtime and you live on beans and rice until you get out of

Starting point is 01:27:50 debt when you're in four or five and six where you're saving for retirement kids college and you're paying off your house you move from intense to intentional and that's all i'm doing i'm agreeing with you to move to intentional intentional says you can live on 70 grand less slows down the speed at which we pay off the house whoopty doopty you're going to get there yep and and that's what i'm And that's what I'm telling him. I'm like, we can do it. I think it's just a security blanket. Listen, I want him to grow up enough to look at the numbers and like a grown-up and go,

Starting point is 01:28:21 oh, the math does work. Not my mommy told me it was okay if I come home. Yep. But it's different than his mommy. It's his wife saying, then I want you to come home. Yeah. Yeah. That's a totally different conversation.

Starting point is 01:28:34 And I think it's just getting past that provider. And Dave is a provider. He is a provider. Where he's sitting at for 38 and his 401K. It's not that. It's not that. That's a touchdown. It's not about money.

Starting point is 01:28:44 It's not about money. You did it. You did it. We did it. We did it. We did it. We got there. We scored.

Starting point is 01:28:49 And look at the numbers, buddy. Listen, you can know, yeah. You did it. We together did it. You sacrificed to do it. Look at the numbers. Be a grown-up. Go, oh, the numbers say I'm okay.

Starting point is 01:29:00 That's what the numbers say. My wife says it's okay. But the numbers also. As a grown man, I can look at the numbers and say, the numbers say it's okay. It's not rocket surgery. No. And also, after a decade, if you're a night shift guy, that becomes who you are.

Starting point is 01:29:14 It becomes your identity, becomes your gang. And so he's going to have to shift his identity. I'm now a guy who works his butt off during the day, and then I go home and I'm a present dad. And I get to, you know, tickle fight on the floor. Hello. Exactly. Hello.

Starting point is 01:29:29 Thank you. Thank you, Lord. It's a good thing. Yeah, man. You all worked real hard for this moment. Definitely needs to do it as soon as possible. But you've got to believe it with the numbers and with the people that love you speaking into your life

Starting point is 01:29:41 and speaking blessings over you. And that's what John's talking about. So that's the way you do it. Joe's with us. Joe's in Detroit. Hi, Joe. What's up? Hi, Dave.

Starting point is 01:29:51 Hi, guys. I really appreciate your phone call. Sure. How can we help? I have a question about my mortgage. Mm-hmm. So I own about $55,000 on my mortgage right now. Mm-hmm.

Starting point is 01:30:03 And I have about $70,000 in a high-yield. fund right now. Cool. Pay it off. Today. Pay it off right now. You have a paid for a house, homie? That's fun.

Starting point is 01:30:21 See, that's what I'm... Okay, so my financial advisor, so I'm making about 5.4% on my fund right now. And my mortgage interest rate is only like three and a quarter. Hey, you need a new financial advisor. You need to know, you're fanatic in anything.

Starting point is 01:30:40 This is 5%. Hey, dude, look at this. $55,000 times 2% is $1,000. Woo-hoo! Whoopty, doppedy! You can't buy a biscuit with this guy's advice. Well, yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:30:59 So for the last, like, four or five months, I've been putting an extra $1,000 on my mortgage. Today, hey, hey, pay it. What are you doing? Listen, if your house was paid for it, would you go get a mortgage at 3% to invest it at 5? I hope not. I know. Pay it off today and fire your guy, man.

Starting point is 01:31:19 Get you a guy who's got a brain. Pay it off. If you hate it, if you wake up two months from now and you're like, you know what? I hate not owing anybody on my house. I hate my mortgage. I miss my mortgage. You can go down to a local bank and take out a loan. They'll hook you.

Starting point is 01:31:37 you up they'll hook you up 30 years of doing this i've never had anybody call me go dave ramsie i hate you because when i paid off my mortgage i just i was miserable i wanted one so bad i wanted a mortgage so bad your advice is so horrible i wouldn't got another one i've never had that one time i've had people pissed at me for almost everything but not that one In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, Jennifer's with us. Hi, Jennifer, how are you? Good.

Starting point is 01:32:16 How are you? Better than I deserve. Welcome. How much debt have you paid? $205,000. Awesome. Where are you from? From Milford, Connecticut.

Starting point is 01:32:25 Okay. Okay, cool. And how long to take you? All right. Yeah, how long take you pay off $200,000? When I got focused, it was five years and six months. Five years. Very cool. That's amazing. And what was your range of income during that five years? Started out around 78 and ended around 165.

Starting point is 01:32:42 Cool. What do you do for a living? I work in the aerospace industry. Doing what? So I'm in the business management side. Oh, okay. You know, basically. So you manage rocket scientists? Yeah.

Starting point is 01:32:53 Okay. That's good. It's fun. Is that straight? That feels like it would be tough. Somebody's like brain surgeon. Yeah, it is. I have to hold people accountable.

Starting point is 01:33:01 Yeah. Who know way too much. Exactly. Yeah. Well, and if you know how to build a rocket, I assume you just assume you know how to do everything else on the planet also, right? Sure. So what kind of debt was the 205?

Starting point is 01:33:13 A little under 15,000 for student loans and the rest was my mortgage. Yeah. You're a weirdo. A paid off house. Boom! What's this house worth, girl? Right now, it's worth about 400. 15. Very cool. And how much in your nest egg in your retirement? Just shy of 300,000. All right.

Starting point is 01:33:31 Heading towards millionaire. Almost baby steps millionaire. So how old are you? I'm 45. All right. Way to go, kiddo. Congrats. Excellent. You rocked it. Very, very cool. All right. Tell me this story because you're all put together. You hang out with rocket scientists, but you decide we're going to go game on. Five years. We're knocking out mortgage and everything. How did you get connected to Ramsey? Tell me how this all worked out. So I got connected the first time in about 2005. That's when I gave my life to the Lord and heard about it through my church. And I gave my life to the Lord and immediately went into like a Job season. Oh. Yeah. Like every time you think it can't get worse, it got worse. Oh my gosh. And, you know, there wasn't any irresponsibility or sin or anything like that. It was just

Starting point is 01:34:18 life happening. Tragedy after tragedy. Yeah. It was really intense. And my pastors gifted me a scholarship to go through FPU, but I literally had nothing to work with. So it was like information, and I'm a total nerd. So it was always there, but I literally had nothing to work with. And then basically in 2015, I was starting to kind of dig back out of the hole by the grace of God. And I got this job offer to move from Kansas City to Connecticut, and I'm Like, heck, yeah, I'm going to make the move. This is a great opportunity. So when I got to Connecticut and I had a real income, which was fabulous, I started remembering, hey, FPU, I've got to get back with that.

Starting point is 01:35:10 So I went through a course again. And then I started building an estate because when I went through this season, I lost everything. Literally. Negative net worth. I should have been on the upward trajectory of life. I'm a single woman by design. I don't have children. I don't have her plan on getting married.

Starting point is 01:35:31 And so when you're by yourself and you lose everything, it's very, it can be very burdensome. That's an understatement. How about terror? That's a scary place to be. Yeah. Yeah, it was. There's no safety net.

Starting point is 01:35:46 There's no support mechanism. No, I mean, I was staring homelessness in the face. It was very real. So when I started rebuilding, my instinct was to save everything. Yeah, yeah. And that's a good instinct. I bought a house. The Lord literally tucked it away from me.

Starting point is 01:36:08 It's a beautiful original Victorian. It's like a life-sized doll house. And I knew I had about a five-year window before I needed to do some major repairs and upkeep. And I was saving away, had a nice, big fat nest egg for that and was continuing to just pay minimums. And then I was entering into my, just before my 40th birthday, and the Lord just really convicted me. And he's like, you've got money in your account to get rid of those student loans today. And I'm like, okay. So for me, that was a huge leap of faith, because when you have nothing, and then all of a sudden you have

Starting point is 01:36:47 something, giving it away, feels like the rug's going to get pulled out again. Um, but I trusted him and I did it. Um, and then I started, you know, saving again. It just astounded me how quickly it came back. Uh, then I, uh, was, you know, working on the different repairs, um, for the house, saving up that fund and got to last summer. And construction prices were just through the roof. They were ridiculous wanting 60, 70,000 dollars to rebuild a porch or 100,000 dollars for 18 windows. It was ridiculous. felt like I wasn't making progress. So I asked the Lord, I'm like, what do I do? Like, I've got all this money saved. And he said, pay off the house in one year. And my jaw dropped on the floor because at that time my mortgage balance was about $145,000. I pulled $72,000 out of my nest egg, slapped it on the balance. And then every penny that was going to my floating fund, I'm sorry, my sinking fund, I put it on, I put it on the mortgage, and it was gone in nine months. How's it feel?

Starting point is 01:37:55 Surreal, amazing. Like, I live on $600 a month. It's stupid. It's ridiculous. And I just rebuilt my porch, which was a huge project. Paid cash for that. Oh, yeah, paid cash for that. I'm getting ready to do, you know, the siting in the windows.

Starting point is 01:38:12 I got a contractor that's so reasonable. And when you're standing there with cash, and you don't have to do anything, they're reasonableness changes. Yes, yeah. Yeah, they can tell. Yeah. Wow.

Starting point is 01:38:24 What an adventure, dude. You have developed through this journey a backbone of steel. I mean, we can just feel the strength emanating off you, not only from your faith, but just the journey has toughened you. And so there's nothing comes at you. You're ready. I'm ready. Yeah, there is pretty cool.

Starting point is 01:38:48 Yeah, there's nothing. There's nothing that can really do. We get these calls about once every two weeks with someone who's on the edge of homelessness and hopelessness. Talk to them for a second. I was there. I'll never forget the day sitting on the steps in my house going, what's the safest parking lot that I could sleep in? my my first home was taken when all of the the big three mortgage companies were erroneously foreclosing they erroneously foreclosed on my house and I just had major surgery and I had 10 days it just big orange sticker on my house you don't own this anymore and I didn't even know that they were taking my house I was current wow um but it was done and And the only thing that I knew was I was about a two-year-old Christian.

Starting point is 01:39:48 I knew that my, you know, what I learned is that, you know, the Lord is my provider. He can bring me through. And my precious pastors told me, you will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living. This is not the end of the story. And I hung on to that. I genuinely did every day. That's a word, right? there and and it came true too yeah it really did so we know that was the word yeah so i um just

Starting point is 01:40:19 one little miracle at a time things came together i was not homeless i always had somewhere safe to sleep um and it was a couple year during on the savings account depend on me pay off the student loans yeah don't depend on the savings account yep pay off the house yep depend on me yes depend on me Depend on me. You've had a steady message. Yeah. That's a decade, isn't it? Yeah.

Starting point is 01:40:43 Or more. It's 15 years. Well, yeah, yeah, 15 years. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. What a walk. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:40:48 And during it, I mean, the journey just from, you know, five, six years ago, I had major surgery on my back, you know, 27 staples up my low back. Oh, I shouldn't have said backbone of steel, should I? No, literally. You do. Who knew? Don't play, yeah. Be careful with that.

Starting point is 01:41:05 Okay. Yeah. Wow. Proud of you. Way to go. Yeah, you are Wonder Woman for sure. I'm so proud of you. Thanks. All right.

Starting point is 01:41:12 Jennifer from Milford, Connecticut, like no other. 205,000 paid off house and everything in five years, making 78 to 165 from homeless to there. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, and one. I am debt-free. Yeah. So, me.

Starting point is 01:41:32 Yeah. Wow. Oh, man. I'm getting soft in my old age, David. These keep getting... I've been soft in my old age. I cried in Applebee's commercial. Our scripture of the day, Colossians 4.6,

Starting point is 01:41:48 let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone. Thomas Sowell said, we all enter the world knowing nothing, but by the time we're teenagers, we know it all. Sometimes it takes decades later before we know enough to realize how long.

Starting point is 01:42:06 little we know. Chris is in Memphis. Hey, Chris, how are you? Hey, I'm doing good, Dave. Thanks, taking my call. Absolutely. How can we help? My wife and I are in baby steps six, and I'm transitioning from intensity to intentionality.

Starting point is 01:42:25 Good. And now I want to sign up for a country club membership at the club where I grew up playing golf with my dad and my brother every weekend because I want to give that same experience to my son who's. And the only thing hold me back is I think, would Dave say go do it or would he say it was stupid? And then I thought, well, I can just call him and ask him. Okay. When is Dave Ramsey ever called anybody's, never mind. So, Chris, how much is the do, are the initiation and how much of the dues? The initiation is 5K. The dues are $5.50 months plus $85 for food and Bev. I'm currently

Starting point is 01:43:06 I mean, $5,000? For the initiation, yeah. That's all? Yeah. Oh, I thought that was a whole bunch of money. I was going to say, get a Zepko and check. No, there are country clubs. There's plenty of country clubs and golf clubs that are half a million.

Starting point is 01:43:23 250,000. Plenty of them. Nobody's angry. We got the lowest cost living around. So that's good. Okay, so $5,000 and $500 a month. And what's your household income? About $120,000.

Starting point is 01:43:36 okay and you're obviously putting 15% away for retirement and you're working on a budget with your wife and you're in agreement right and what is her opinion of this purchase um i i told her hey um i want to sign up at this country club what do you think and instead of asking me any questions she just said yeah if you want to go ahead and do it i think um over the last 11 years of our marriage i think i've just built up a level of trust with her in handling our finances that she didn't even ask if she didn't even ask how much it was like I did no but I went ahead and told her anyway but she green lit it before I told her she needs to be careful it could have been a half a million okay um but you wouldn't have brought it to her because you're trustworthy okay anyway uh well I've got wife agreement I have money it's within the budget it's something you desire to do. I think people at your stage buy $5,000 couches or $15,000 cars or go on $5,000 cruises or $10,000 cruises, don't they? And that fits in our plan. That's part of being intentional in baby

Starting point is 01:44:52 steps four through six while you're hitting your other goals. You just have, you save the money to do that. And you, you know, you're pulling $5.50 a month out, including your F&B. But, um, uh, I, uh, It checks all the boxes. I would do it. Okay, cool. No, it's not stupid. What you're doing is you're thinking through, does this affect my life? Does it prevent me from hitting other goals that are more important than this goal?

Starting point is 01:45:26 The answer is no. Because it's a small amount of money in ratio to your income and your situation. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah, it's just when I say it out loud to people, and I'm thinking about doing it. All I can hear myself saying is I want to buy a boat, you know. So it just sounds silly when I say it out loud because, you know, I just went through all the other baby steps, and we were super intense.

Starting point is 01:45:49 And now... Well, you weren't intense, so you live like no one else, so later you can live and give like no one else. Yeah. That's why you did that. And so that's moving from intense to intentional. You had the right verbiage when you started the call. light. It just, it feels weird because you sacrifice to get here. And then the first time you actually draw back and enjoy a little of it, or the first time you draw back and have a sizable

Starting point is 01:46:15 generosity move, like if you gave away $5,000, you'll have that same emotion. Like it kind of feels weird. Like, am I going to be okay if I do this? That kind of emotion. And that's the, because it's a muscle you've not been used to using, you've been using the frugality muscle only. not the generosity or enjoyment muscle and it's a it's a new it's new and it takes a little time to get there i think you do it though kate's in california hey kate what's up hi thank you for taking my call sure how can we help um so my question is regarding well basically it boils down to at what point do my husband and i call it quits on a business venture how long you've been doing it about five or six years wow is that your full-time gig um no so let me give you a little

Starting point is 01:47:12 backstory um my husband is a creator he's the writer and a comic book artist and he's been working on some intellectual properties that he wants to either uh self-publish or sell to like a large a company and sort of break his way into the entertainment industry basically. When he first started doing this, I told him

Starting point is 01:47:40 that I would not feel comfortable paying for this or funding it with our household income. I said, you know, I'll support you in doing this and trying this, but you're going to have to go do a side gig or something to fund it. He's been paying

Starting point is 01:47:55 artists to create these artworks for him basically um so it's been about five years of him doing gig work like working you know so he's invested a ton in it and has made no money correct so this is not a business this is a hobby um businesses have a profit businesses have profit right and that's kind of my attitude about it that's not an attitude that's a fact it's a fact Yeah, right. His hobby is imagining a thing and then hiring an artist to make that thing come alive. But he's made no money with it.

Starting point is 01:48:38 Correct. And he's just crossed a threshold where somebody can sneeze and a computer can just do it now for you. Right. I mean, there's a lot of things about it that are becoming frustrating to me. Like what? But, well, it's just we have four kids. I'm the primary breadwinner in our household. Okay, it's not becoming frustrating.

Starting point is 01:49:05 He is becoming frustrating. He's been frustrating a long time, and you're entering into resentment. Yes. And you need to put that conversation on the table, clear as kind. The best way you can love him right now is to put all that on the table. Yeah. Because he's choosing a hobby in part-time gigs over five years.

Starting point is 01:49:27 to over his wife and kids and their stability it's not even like he's an actor and he keeps getting gigs and he's getting more and he's pushing it and he's going that's not even happening here this has been 100% outlay no income none right and it's yeah and he's you know but i i have to say i do i'm a creative person myself and so it has nothing to do with being a creative it has do with being a responsible adult. Creatives can be responsible adults. Dave and I are both creatives. But when you make humans, you're, you also are creative when you're a parent. And that's where the bulk of your energy goes. You get, you get to take care of your family. I get to be creative only after my wife and kids have been served. Yeah. Or I get to be creative in a way that

Starting point is 01:50:18 makes a profit so that my wife and kids are served. Like writing a best-selling book. That would be a creative thing. But the book sold a million copies. Hello. So there's that. And that's the thing you got to, you know. Or I do creative stuff. I play music. So we can't just, you're trying to be sweet to his dreamer self. But here's the thing. If you, we love people who dream. We don't love people who live in them. You need to do something with the dream. Leave the cave, kill something and drag it home. So my daughters were teenagers. If they came in and said, Daddy, he's the nicest guy.

Starting point is 01:50:58 He's a dreamer. I'm thinking, oh, God, they're going to live in my basement. Okay? So you don't want to live people that live in their dreams. We want people who execute out of the dream and turn it into a vision, a goal, a strategy, an implementation that makes money. We have to feed our family. So, yeah, you guys got some marriage work to do.

Starting point is 01:51:21 Yes, he needs to close the hobby down because it's frustrating his wife to the point she's calling us. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace Christ Jesus.

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