The Ramsey Show - App - Mortgage Rates Aren't As High As You Think (Hour 1)

Episode Date: August 8, 2023

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the pods, moving and storage studios. It's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they actually love, and create real and amazing relationships. Rachel Cruz, number one bestselling author, co-host of the super popular Smart Money Happy Hour with George Campbell, is my co-host today, number one bestselling author. How many times, I mean, you've got a lot of accolades.

Oh, she's my daughter, too. I don't know about that. Yeah. But you can keep them going. It's great. Just keep, keep. How many number ones? I'm just kidding.

Yeah, there's a lot of number one bestsellers. Open phones at 888-825-5225. We're going to talk about your life and you right in front of you. Jason starts us off in Austin, Texas. Hi, Jason. How are you? Hello, Dave. Rachel.

How are you doing? Better than we deserve. What's up in your world? Well, I feel really behind the eight ball. I was wondering if I could put away for retirement and pay off debt at the same time. I've been doing the baby steps, and I have currently now moved from $300,000 to $120,000 worth of student loan debt. I have a car loan of $33,000 worth of student loan debt. I have a car loan of $33,000. You went from $300,000 in student loans down to $100,000 and a quarter? Yes.

Way to go, man. Yeah, I was working really hard. How long did that take you? It took me about three years. Wow. What do you make? So I'm a physician, so when I was in residency, I was making about $70. My wife also worked, so she was making about $72.

So we were living in kind of, living off of one income. What's your household income now? So currently it's $290. Oh, man, you're awesome. Way to go. You're going to knock this out000. Oh, man, you're awesome. Way to go. You're going to knock this out in no time, aren't you? I have nothing in retirement. Oh, you're okay.

How old are you, Jason? 35. Oh, man, you're going to be debt-free in a year and a half. Yeah, yeah. So wait a minute, let's just be real. You make $300, dollars a year you're 37 years old and you have no debt can we retire rich answer yes okay hello think about it really okay okay yeah i don't so keep doing the baby steps just don't yes yeah yeah keep doing the

plan you're doing great i think you're probably getting a little fatigued, Jason. I mean, after three years of it. Yeah, I mean, after three years, you're just like, oh, my gosh, is this. And you're hitting the big ones now. Or worse than that, some doctor friend of yours started giving you financial advice. Everybody's buying houses right now. Yeah. I know. Every doctor, you know, let me just tell you,

broke doctors are like broke people in the music business it's like most of them they because they they're really good at their craft and they think that makes them good at money and they suck at money most of the time there's some doctors do a really good job but mds that are horrible with money and arrogant about it are like a they're like a stereotype in our world yeah and what's hard Jason is because I think advice from them yeah because well and I think you know because a lot of them can err on the side of having a larger income and so what can happen with a larger income just like you've experienced you talk about this Dave

is like it can just mask your mistakes and your bad habits because you just throw more money at it and it's fine until something starts to happen and you start to realize, wow, the thing I have built is a house of cards and I actually don't have great money habits. So for you, Jason, I think it's just this powerful imagery of, hey, if I actually do this stuff and I clear the debt and I do everything the right way, what you're going to do when you build wealth is actually true wealth like it's going to be on a really strong foundation because of the choices you're making today and so very good again while everyone else looks like they're doing it you you guys are going to be great jason i promise you'll be fine yeah i'm with rachel i'll put some gas in your tank because your tank's empty but your car is awesome i mean you just you need to because you've been doing really good you've been i mean

for god's sakes everybody around you should be taking your advice not the other way around okay you need to stick put the pedal down and finish the race man the tape is in sight sprint for the finish line jason when you're right there yes and after you guys again looking at just the numbers i'm like and once you guys pay off this debt to to your point dave like like that you're gonna be able to build wealth and you guys are gonna be you're gonna do your 15 retirement you guys are gonna be buying a house you're paid like before you know it you're gonna have money to be like okay now what do we do with this extra money your network we're gonna be able to invest even more in other things right i mean like you're gonna be fine yeah if you follow these steps you'll be a millionaire plus when you're 40 easy easy based on where you are right now easy probably two million

but if you just follow the steps just do what we teach you to i mean just don't oh man you're just doing so good i'm so proud of you all right clayton's in kansas city hey clayton what's up hi there how are you today? Better than I deserve. How can we help? Awesome. Hey, so my main question is, should we start paying off my wife's student loans right now, or should we wait until after she graduates? There's a couple factors and a couple plans we have.

So we've got a $10,000 emergency account. Her student loans currently are for $4,000, but we will have to take out student loans for the next semester coming up here in October for another $4,000. She goes to a pretty cheap online school. Well, no, stop. The first thing you do is stop borrowing. That's step one. Yes, sir. So you've got the money to pay cash.

Make sure you've still got the money to pay cash at the end of our discussion, okay? Finish school with no more debt. Yeah, yeah. So the issue is that she lost her job a while ago, and we're getting ready to have a baby in October. Wonderful. So that was one of my questions, is should we drain our emergency account to pay for these two semesters?

What do you mean? How is she going to go to school, Clayton, and have a baby? Yep, so she's doing a fully online school. Okay, so how is she going to keep up with the work? I mean, like,

I'll just be real. As someone that's had three kids, is it possible? Sure. Anything's possible. is it the smartest thing to do to go a semester into school while you're in the middle of having your first baby i would if i were her i would pause take a semester off yeah take a half the baby you guys save up some cash make sure she's good you're i mean you guys are going to be like zombies for about like two months uh with a newborn so there's no reason to rush all of this.

If I were her, I would just pause for that next semester. And you guys have your family enjoy that season. What do you make? I make $4,433 a month. What's she studying? She is studying to be an elementary school teacher. At graduate level? Yes. Getting her bachelor's degree. Finishing her bachelor's. Finishing her bachelor's. Okay. So she's finishing up her undergrad. Okay. Yeah. So it is, it's an online school and I guess the way it works is

it's self-paced. Yeah. what is, how old are you two? I'm 24 and she is 23. Okay, Rachel's right. If I were in your shoes, I would take a semester off. You guys, you can work an extra job if you need to, and she takes care of the baby. And let's enjoy this and not try to run past this in a dead sprint. Just take, you know,

and then you got plenty of time to get back, finish the degree. To save up and pay the $4,000. But don't pay off debt and then turn around and go back in debt and then pay off debt and then turn around and go back in debt. That's a dog chasing his tail. That's useless.

Don't do that. This is The Ramsey Show. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Jade Warshaw, one of our other Ramsey Personalities, is doing a budgeting webinar August the 9th for most of you. That's tomorrow. And it's at 1230 Eastern Time. It's completely free. If you want to learn how to do a good budget, particularly if

you have an irregular, unpredictable income, we can help you with that too. All of this is built into the world's best budgeting app called EveryDollar. And you can get on EveryDollar for free. Download the app. But if you really want to learn how to use it for free, Jade will help you with a few of her closest friends tomorrow. Go to dollar dot com slash budgeting and get signed up uh and spoiler alert uh in a couple of days we're gonna be uh well like tomorrow we're gonna start telling you rachel cruz is doing one of these webinars a little bit later in the month right august 15th yeah and these are fun we've we're excited to do these because budgeting is like, it's the glue that holds so much of this together.

And it's such a crucial piece. And it's a piece that a lot of people sometimes can skip over or have these ideas of what it is. But all the emotions around money, so many of those negative emotions can be solved through having a plan and actually being in control. So we're excited to dive in with you guys. And there's gonna be a Q&A portion. So we're gonna get to hang out yeah it's all for free so

jade's is uh tomorrow it's actually a budgeting seminar is actually a free marriage seminar yeah if you're if you're married we'll actually probably end up talking about more issues than just budgeting yeah it's gonna it's gonna bring up some stuff okay yeah hey question of the day uh is brought to you by neighborly, your hub for home services. They're the place to find reliable help for your home from trusted locally owned businesses like Glass Doctor, Mr. Handyman, and Shelf Genie. Visit Neighborly.com to find home experts that are available to serve you. Great company. So today's question comes from Clayton in Texas. I'd like to move to a nicer neighborhood.

However, with the housing prices high and the interest rates high, I'm not sure it's the best time. The only debt I have is my house, $145,000 left on my loan at 2.65% rate. I'm confident I can sell my house for $300,000, if not more. The downfall is I'm giving up a low interest rate for a more expensive house and a higher rate. Thank you for your time. Yeah, I mean, this is a very standard question a lot of people are asking. Like, hey, I want to upgrade. But then as they do the math and they look at the interest rate and over the life of a loan, you know, we say to pay it off faster than 15 years,

but a 15-year loan, I mean, you're gonna be paying a substantial more money towards your interest. And so for a lot of people, that's making them hesitant. But you guys, I mean, my philosophy always with buying a home is buy it when you're ready. It's a great investment. We want everyone to own a home.

We want you to have a primary residence when you're ready. It's a great part of your financial picture. And so, you know, you have to really be able to kind of take the noise and everything going on that you hear at the news and everything and kind of mute all of that and say, OK, where are we financially? And as long as your payment is within that 25% of your take-home pay, you're on a 15-year fixed rate, and if all of that math still works for you and you have a good down payment then you can move forward with it but you have to know mathematically yeah we're going to be paying more in interest but i mean dave that's what i mean a lot of people are

they're they're pausing a home buying because like gosh i have a good right now in my current home and if we move it's it's going to triple basically into a higher interest rate. Well, as long as you're at 25% of your take-home pay on a 15-year fix, there's two things going on when you do that. One is you're going to get out of debt faster than 15 years, okay? Two is we know you can afford it, that you're buying a house that is reasonable, your move-up is reasonable. If it fits those two things, Clayton, you should go ahead and do it now, okay? Because here's the thing, you should go ahead and do it now. Okay. Because here's the thing. You said some incorrect things here. Okay. However, with housing prices being high, no, honey, housing prices just are. They're not high. They're high compared to yesterday. They're low compared to tomorrow. They're not coming back down.

When you say they're high, it's almost as if you think they might come back down. They're not coming down. Okay. In 60 years, 70 years, house prices have gone down one time temporarily in 2008 and they shot back up one time. If you're going to sit around and wait on one time in 60 or 70 years to happen, you're never getting a house. They're not coming down. You're buying a house the way it is now and when you're ready. That's right. As far as the interest rates go, I don't know if they'll come back down.

If they do, refinance. If they don't, pay off the stupid loan because you know what my interest rate is on my loan? Zero because I don't have a loan. So there's a good way to get a zero percent. Pay the stinking thing off. Pay it off. And then you don't worry about the interest rates. You're not keeping this thing around like it's a pet.

You're getting rid of the mortgage. So, you know, number one, house prices are not coming back down. If you're going to buy, this is the best time to buy in the next 20 years, right now, price-wise. If interest rates are, oh, I'm worried about interest rates being high interest rates are not high they're not high historically they are higher than they were 2.65 right they're higher than they were but over the course of history right they're really not high and so if they did come back down then just refinance because they were at what when you were selling houses in the 80s i was selling houses in the 80s there were 17 17 yeah yeah and they came down to 14 and people came out of their houses like they did after covid trying

you couldn't they're stampeding to buy houses and rates were 14 and then they went down to 10 and then they went down to nine and somebody called me up and said i don't want to buy a house at nine i was on the radio then and i'm like why it's nine it may as compared to 17 i thought it was awesome yeah and i said you'll never see six and little did i know how dumb i was of course you saw six on the way down to three but yeah but the the three percent two percent interest rate range was artificially created by the government trying to recover from 2008. The market did not drive us down there. The market has hovered around 6% for decades, a couple of decades now, in and out of the 6% range. So historically, it's only compared to a year ago or two years ago that they're high.

So this is the time to buy a house. It is the time for sure to sell a house yes there's still more buyers than there are houses yep still a seller's market so get with a good real estate agent go to ramsey solutions.com click on uh elp for ramsey trusted endorsed local provider for real estate agent that knows what the flip they're doing it has experience and sells a bunch of houses and if you you're ready to move, you're out of debt, you're buying it, 25% of your take-home pay, Rachel's exactly right.

It's not based on all the noise that you're hearing from your friends or in the marketplace. It's when you're ready. It's like I was with this wine expert the other day who's one of the most renowned wine guys in the world. And he said, I said, what is that good wine and he said do you like it that's the definition of good wine do you like it when you are ready yeah you know and so you know do you like it are you ready are you in good shape are you ready to make the move

bia is with us in seattle hi bia welcome to Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Is it Bia? Bia, yes. I did say it right. How can I help? Yes. Hello, Dave. Hello, Rachel. God bless both of you and thank you for taking my call. Sure. I want to know if I should sell an investment property that I own. Do you like it?

I do like it. Why are you selling it? Because I am in debt right now. My combined debt with car loan, I just got a new unsecured loan. So all of my debt combined is $114,297.65. what the crap did you buy bia it's a mixture of credit cards personal loans car loans and you've been spending like you're in congress for how long i did since i left the military i retired about 10 years ago i have paid off some debt um but i still have that debt left. So it's a combination of one unsecured signature loan and three other separate credit cards is my total debt. Thanks for your service. When are you going to stop overspending? I am in the midst of changing right now,

which is one of the reasons why I called. Yeah, good. Okay. Because if you sell the rental property and pay off all the debt and you keep overspending, you'll be right back here in 10 years. I haven't changed you. Yeah. Okay. Hey, stay on the line because Skylar's going to pick up. We're heading into a break, but I want to put you through Financial Peace University because this is our nine lesson course that will walk you through not just the head knowledge of what to do, but actually the behavior change is what we're kind of keying on, right? If you sell this and just throw the money at it,

you haven't changed. You can get right back in the same issues. You have to change you. And so this has community, has coaching, it has so many elements to come under you and help you through this new journey. So stay on the line. If you will stay on a budget

and live on less than you make, yes, you should sell the rental and get rid of the debt. But only if you're going will stay on a budget and live on less than you make, yes, you should sell the rental and get rid of the debt. But only if you're going to stay on a budget and live on less than you make. Hey, you guys, health insurance costs are only moving one way, and that way isn't down. And if higher costs aren't enough, the wait times to see your doctor are longer, and it's harder than ever to get anything approved through the bureaucracy. So if you feel like the system is working against you, try a biblically-based alternative to health insurance, Christian Healthcare Ministries. CHM is a health cost-sharing ministry that's helped hundreds of thousands of families like yours

take care of over $11 billion in medical bills since 1981. And CHM has also helped them stay true to their values and avoid miles of red tape. And CHM support goes far beyond meeting financial needs. They'll also help meet spiritual needs. Members become part of a family who will pray with them and for them when they experience a medical event. So listen, y'all, there's no better way to take care of health care costs. CHM programs start as low as $98 a month. So learn more today and join at chministries.org slash budget. That's chministries.org slash budgets. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author. My daughter is my co-host today. Be sure and check her and George out. The Smart Money Happy Hour has a once a week

podcast drop. It drops on Thursday, right? Yes, every Thursday. Every Thursday, if you want to figure out what these two are drinking i mean uh what their advice is you can find it out there and cocktails so you get both yeah i just i'm a little i saw on social media i don't see much on social media but i was thumbing through my insta what do you call that the gram no you're right it's the Insta. The gram. The gram. And there's a little kid, 10 years old. Yeah. Drinking the mocktail that you all taught him to make on Smart Money Happy Hour. So I think you're causing juvenile delinquency. No.

That's what I'm thinking. It's probably muddled. There was no alcohol in it. It was probably muddled strawberries with some mints. No, it was the one with a... It was like a float. It had like ice cream or something. Oh, yeah. I mean, yeah, we have fun.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Listen, you need something fun... I think you're causing problems with the youth of America. ...while you talk about pop culture and money. And hey, we get messages all the time that six-year-olds, seven-year-olds love the show and even like 80-year-olds love the show. And you're teaching them to drink. No, we're not.

We're not teaching them to drink we got no we're not it's not a show about drinking people i'm just kidding it's a happy hour drink of the day and it's because it's happy hour sometimes so check it out it's always fun and funny because george and rachel are if anything they're fun if anything they're always fun so be sure to check it out i think somebody wishes we talked about money a little bit more and a little less fun sometimes but we have a lot of it's kind of in the title smart money happy hour there's that yeah okay so i'm just just holding you accountable to that that's all open phones at 888-825-5225 madison is in des moines iowa hi madison how are you hey good thanks for having me guys sure what's up um so my question is i have a camper that i'm renting out and making good money on um but we're living in a dumpy house and we got a lot of debt that we need to tackle so should i sell sell that camper and get like $15,000 back plus get rid of that loan debt

and put that on my current debt? Or should I move my family into the camper and kind of use that as our, use it as a way to decrease our expenses? I'm a little bit unclear how you rent out campers for money. What's going on? Explain that to me. Yeah, there's some great websites that you can go. It's kind of like an Airbnb. Oh, so it's like a camper Uber. Okay. That's right, yeah. So I just drop it off to people and they rent it for a weekend or something.

My God, what will they come up with next okay i didn't know i'm just learning something okay so what is it how much do you make on that i'm just curious i'm gonna tell you to sell it anyway but how much do you make on it i've been making about a grand a week which has been nice extra cash for us what's it worth the camper is worth 43 000 how much you owe i owe 25 000 25 000 every week you're making a thousand dollars every week that it's rented i would say oh well no kidding how many weeks is it rented uh most weeks i probably at least three weeks uh a month and is that is that year round though madison or is that just because of the summer just because of the summer okay i have been looking into uh so you're not making fifty two thousand dollars a year a thousand dollars a week you're

making twenty thousand dollars a year yes okay all right that's helpful because i was about to just have a coronary over here about to go go into camper business. But anyway, the, no, yeah, sell it. Listen, you're not in a position to be in the camper investment A or B and B business. You're broke. Yeah. Yeah, that's what you already knew. I just said it more broadly.

How much debt do you guys have, Madison, total? Combined with me and my husband, we have about $140,000. On what? We have a business that we started, and that's been doing really well, but the startup cost for that was we have about $15,000 left on that. We have a vehicle. I have student loans. How much do you owe on the vehicle?

The vehicle, about $40,000. What do you owe on the student loans? $45,000. Okay. How how much you guys make a year uh about 144,000 and then the and then you owe 20 on the camper 25 on the camera that gets us to 140 okay hey yeah yeah yeah and your household income is what? $144,000. And you're in a dumpy house? Yeah, we are renting because we moved back from Florida. We're not sure what to do with the business. But we really need to have a place that we have the business at home because it's so inconvenient right now.

The house is not in the best shape, not in the best neighborhood. And how long? You don't have two years' tax returns on the business though do you i don't have uh my tax returns the cpa that i hired no i mean you haven't had the business two years have you i have it's in the third year right now okay did you make enough in the two years on your tax returns when you do get them done to take them to the mortgage company and get a mortgage for a house. Yes. Okay.

So if you sold the camper and you tore into the debt and knocked out the debt and then saved up a down payment. And sold a car. And you sold a car, you could be debt-free in less than a year and start talking about buying a house. Yes.

How does that sound? The day in the house that we're at now. Yeah, that sounds pretty good. Okay. Yeah, Madison, if I were you guys, I would just sell whatever you can. Sell the camper, sell the car, all that stuff you can rebuy later. Sell both cats. But it's like, just get rid of stuff.

And I mean, obviously, the student loan and the business loan, those are still going to be around. But knock those two out. And yeah, and I think you guys are going to be in a totally different position. I think it's a good just mental exercise for you guys. Just to get you been carrying around all this stuff that's equated to carrying around debt and just getting rid of some of it. I think it's going to bring you a lot of peace, Madison. It's kind of a minimalism move for you guys.

Yeah. And the thing is, you're just entrepreneurial and you see something shiny and you jump on it yeah that's how the camper thing happened and then oh and then i could go over and do this and i can do that and i could do this and then all of a sudden your life got real cluttered yeah that's exactly right well the camper we bought because we moved into it and we were living in it for a while and then we have three kids that didn't work so we decided the adventure was over but now we're in the house and that's not working either and we were living in it for a while, and then we have three kids. That didn't work. So we decided the adventure was over. But now we're in the house, and that's not working either.

Well, let's have a one-year to 18-month plan to be 100% debt-free with an emergency fund and a down payment because you're making really good money and get real focused with a budget to do all this and then sell everything in sight, sell so much stuff the kids think they're next, and really get in gear here and let's get this stuff done rachel's exactly right that's what i would do because i can see what the thing is that that with the the cluttered approach the chaotic approach that you've used to money so far has uh kind of made you feel like you're never going to get there and we can see the numbers where you're really going to get there very fast yeah if you take these dramatic moves.

Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's going to bring you guys a level of peace and control that you just haven't had, Madison. But of $140,000, $80,000 is a camper and a car. Right. That's what I'm saying. So I'm like, it's amazing just like removing some of that, you know, and then you put your life on top of Madison with three kids and you guys are working, you're starting a business. I mean, you guys have a lot of moving pieces in your life anyways. And so just simplifying and getting stuff out, I think is going to feel really cleansing

to you guys in more ways than just the financial. I think it's really going to be helpful. And then working a plan and being intense on that plan, seeing progress and goals. You guys are really goal oriented. So you're going to start to feel that traction. And yeah, I think you guys are going to kill it. I mean, I think you're going to do great. Yeah, that's very good. You really got the potential if you just but you're going to have to make some pretty dramatic shifts here in the short term to get your long term goals. But I mean, visualize three years from now, you're living in a nice home with a 15 year fixed where the

payments no more than a fourth of your take-home pay, your business is continuing to grow, and you've got no debt other than that. I can breathe that in, and that feels like a better life. And that's not... That's worth no camper, no car. Yes, and that's not out of reach, Madison. That dream for three years, like, that's reality. That's completely doable. Yep, absolutely.

Mathematically, what Matthew gave us is doable. But you guys got to line up and get after it. You got to bust it. And if you do that, then this will work for you. Good stuff. Good stuff. Hey, thank you for calling in. Man, I love people.

I just learn something every day on this show. Dave's like, make money renting out a camper? Well, I'm thinking. Should I? $42,000 camper and you're getting $1,000 a week. In 42 months, you paid for the thing. It is an amazing world we live in. 42 weeks you pay for the thing.

But it doesn't stay rented. You rent out everything. It took me a minute to get to the bottom of the business pro forma. But yeah, okay, anyway. This is The Ramsey Show. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey Personality is my co-host today. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thanks for listening to The Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thanks for listening to The Ramsey Show. We appreciate you.

If you'd like to know more about what's going on and how you fit into this, Jake, go to RamseySolutions.com and click the Get Started button. We'll help you figure out the best next step in your journey, and I'll help you along the way in the whole process. So thanks for hanging out with us. Josh is in Shreveport, Louisiana. Hey, Josh, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, guys, thanks for taking my call.

Sure, what's up? So my question is, my wife and I are working through the baby steps right now, and around the first of the year, we should be starting baby steps four, five, and six. Excellent. I'm a high-income earner, and so my question is can we take, I know we're supposed to do 15% towards retirement. What if we only did 10% and took the other 5% and helped get our mortgage out of the way as well? What do you make?

What's your high income? $500,000.. How much, what do you make? What's your high income? $500,000. Good for you. What do you do? I'm a physician. Way to go, man. Way to go. Well, obviously, Josh, you're a grown person.

You're allowed to do whatever you want to do. You're just asking if we would do that, I think. Yes, sir. Okay, so you certainly can do that. And will you end up broke if you do that no no you have a paid for house and a little less in retirement and then you'll probably correct and start doing more investments when you don't have a house payment i assume right yes that's correct uh we're um right now we have 600 000 in retirement already yeah um and not bad you know

we'll yes sir we're we're working at. How much is the house? How much do you have left on the house? About $500,000. Okay. All right. Well, here's the thing. It's a pretty simple thing. It's just if you do 10% instead of 15%, the house is going to be paid off a little faster, and you're going to have a little less in retirement. If you do it our way the house is going to be paid off a little faster and you're going to have a little less in retirement if you do it our way you have a little more in retirement and it's going to take a little bit longer to pay off the house but um you know neither one of these are going to break the bank i i would tell you that i've i'm you know you're going to be okay there's neither one of these are in the stupid column like you're in please don't do that you're going to be okay there's neither one of these are in the stupid column like you're please don't do that you're going to destroy your life none of that is in this discussion okay

so this is just nuanced stuff so you do you you need to do whatever you feel is best for you i'm very comfortable that you're going to get both things done anyway and and um it's not and honestly i think you'd be surprised if you actually put a spreadsheet on this that it's not going to make that much difference. At the end of the story, say a 15-year timeline, time horizon, how much difference is your net worth going to be one way or the other? It's not going to be much. You're not really gaining hardly anything. So I'm going to stick with our plan because I've seen it work so many times. I'm really not going to stray from it.

But I'll just say again, A, because I don't want to put out there that, oh, well, if you're a high-income earner, this stuff doesn't apply to you. Yes, it does. Yeah, sure. Yes, it does. And, you know, and if you had a $100,000 mortgage and you made $100,000 a year instead of making a half million with a half million dollar mortgage, I would tell you exactly the same thing. So it's still just ratios and so uh you know you're going to be in debt x number of years longer my way maybe two years more something like that than you would your way so it's a two-year differentiation that we're discussing we're not even arguing about but but no, it doesn't change it.

Your income doesn't change the principles. So the other thing is this. Yeah, yeah, that's what I would do. I would stay right with the baby steps. Yeah. But it's not, again, you're going to get to the end. You're going to be fine. As long as you stay on either one of those tracks

and you don't go off into the la-la land and start buying Bitcoin or some stupid butt stuff or something, then you're going to be just fine. You're going to be fine. Good call. Thank you for joining us. All right, Christian is in Pittsburgh. Hey, Christian, what's up?

Hi. So I was calling. I'm currently working a career that I'm pretty much burnt out in, and I don't know how much longer I can do it. So I was wondering if I should try and stick it out to save up the money to go back to school or if it would be worth it to take a loan out in this case. What do you do? I'm a nurse, a critical care nurse.

Okay. How long have you been doing it? Two and a half years. And what do you want to do? Aviation. Oh, okay. Be a commercial pilot. Hmm.

What got you into nursing? So when I was 14, I joined the fire department. That turned into working on the ambulance, and then that kind of, um, turned into nursing and doing critical care and, um, aviation actually has always been something I've wanted to do, but nursing was just an easier path at the time. How much does it cost to,

to go through that schooling to get your pilot's license? It depends on the program that I do. Um, anywhere from 50 to $100,000. What do you make? My fiance and I combined household is $120,000 a year. You're not combined. You're not married. What do you make? Well, I make $60,000. We both make $60,000. That's's weird you're working critical care 40 hours and you're only making 60 grand in pittsburgh yeah pittsburgh has a lot of nursing schools so they have very low they it's a you know um supply and demand there's a huge supply of nurses not a ton of demand

because they can get new grads that come in yeah we actually just did a salary episode for the smart money happy hour george and i did and we just taped it yesterday and yeah we the nursing yeah it was right around that's the national average actually it's right around there uh which is which was lower than what i was not in critical care that's not that's that's low for critical care okay um no i'm not gonna tell you to go into debt for anything ever i haven't in 35 years and we're not going to start today with you okay now past that uh then what do we do to live a proper life and live your dream right um so you need 50 grand and you need to adjust where you're working because it's not nursing that's driving you nuts it's the location and the people and the particular stress of critical care that's driving you nuts

you didn't suddenly lose your heart for healing you've had a heart for healing for a decade or more yeah you're not burnt out on healing are there other positions christian that you're aware of in the nursing field that you're like, okay, I could do that for three more years or for two more years while I save? Yeah, there are. The problem is that I don't meet the experience requirements for that yet. So being a flight nurse working on the helicopter was also a dream of mine,

but they require five years experience. I'm only at three, so I need to do it for two more years. Who's they? The local hospital? That particular hospital? That's not an industry standard. Three to five years is the industry standard for flight nursing of experience, critical care experience.

Well, you've got three, so that's good. Yeah, and you came out of the fire department, of experience critical care experience you got three so that's good yeah i just wonder yeah and you came out of the fire department so you should know somebody yeah the problem is all the services near me um due to their unions require five years um so it would have to move and currently my fiance is under a contract with her job that we can't move because she took a sign on bonus it's kind of where i'm stuck so i'm going to make some kind of an adjustment because the adjustment that you're talking about making is stupid don't do it you're going to go into debt to become a pilot it's going to take you forever to start making

a living doing that because you're you're you're begin you're going to start at the beginning again i mean entry level and entry level pilots don't make spit in today's world okay i mean you're gonna take a pay cut and go in debt for the opportunity no thank you now do you want to go be a pilot sure that's fine i got no issue with that if that's what the game you want to play but um i i really think you have a heart for healing and i don't know that you'll be a nurse 10 years from now but i think you easily got three or four more years left in you you may just need to adjust where you are and how you're doing it and do you pick up a travel nursing gig and double your income uh temporarily and be gone a little

bit from the fiance and try to make some money and, you know, refresh your spirit and refresh your wallet to get ready to go work on this. But, but dude, you're going to spend 50, 60, 80 grand to go be a pilot. And then you're going to make less than you make now. Well, that doesn't make any sense at all. Okay. And so we've got to have a better plan than that, that has some common sense around it. Yes. Do what you love, but don't do what you love in a way that's stupid. That's always a bad plan. People justify a lot of stupidity because it's my passion. That's dumb.

Don't do that. And you're not going to. You're not going to because you're thinking about it. We appreciate you calling. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, it's Rachel Cruz. If you like what you heard in this episode and want to know more about getting started on the Ramsey baby steps,

go to ramsaysolutions.com and click the get started button. We'll help you figure out the best next step for you based on your specific situation. That's ramsaysolutions.com and click get started.