The Ramsey Show - App - My Accountant Says It's a Bad Idea to Pay Off My Mortgage! (Hour 3)

Episode Date: November 26, 2021

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🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

That's 888-825-5225. Rusty is in Odessa, Texas. Hey, Rusty, what's up? Hey, guys, how are you? Great, man. How can we help you're doing well hey i've been following your plan for about 20 years uh we're on baby step seven wanted to ask you a question about something that uh we're starting to see is places that are no longer taking cash or basically penalizing those of us that are using cash, like entertainment places where you have to

put cash on a play card, and then if you don't use all of it, you don't get it all back. We're just curious your thoughts about that. I'm not familiar with that type of transaction. I mean, obviously, there are situations where I just look, as a matter of principle, I choose not to do business with somebody. By the way, they are putting forth barriers to me. They're requiring things of me as a customer, maybe around COVID or around cash or something that I don't want to do. And therefore, I don't do it. And that means I can't be their customer.

And that's okay. They own the business. They're allowed to say that. As far as I know, the whole legal tender thing won't work. I mean, they're supposed to accept legal tender. That's the whole purpose of a currency. But I don't know of anyone enforcing that at the federal level, which is what it would have to be, I guess.

So I think that's probably more of a philosophical discussion than anything else. But I carry a debit card. So if I'm in a situation like that, unless the people are just being weird or something, I use a debit card to run a tab at a place or something if I need to. But I'm not going to give somebody cash that's non-refundable if I don't use it all. Right. What is that, like a club, like a nightclub thing? Yeah, it's like an entertainment that has movies and bowling alleys

and game rooms and things like that. Oh, okay. Yeah, it's like a Dave and Buster's type thing or something. Or a Chuck E. Cheese or whatever. Yeah, exactly right. Yeah, okay. All right. Yeah, I'm not – no, I mean, will they take a debit card?

They will, but I like to use my cash. Okay. Well, I don't blame you there. I mean, I don't blame you. But so it comes down to, you know, a horrible transaction, which is the plate thing you were describing. I'm not doing that for sure. Or I like to use my cash, and you people are making this difficult, and so you're basically saying, I don't want you as a customer, Rusty. And you say, okay, then I won't be your customer.

I'll go bowling somewhere else, you know. And so I'll look for my excitement elsewhere. Or you can use, if it's something you're not wanting to take a stand on, You know, it's not – I mean, I don't make a principled picketing stand on every single transaction I do. I just look at it and go, you know, this one's not worth it. I'm not fighting this one or this one I'm going to fight, and I'm not going to do this. And so, you know, I – so anyway, you just got to decide that and say, I'm not going there. But you're right. There's more and more places that have gone to cashless.

I was in a breakfast place, a tiny little meet-and-three breakfast place off the side of the beaten path up off of – outside of Aspen, Colorado last year. And they didn't take cash and i was like god i mean it was like a biscuits and gravy kind of thing it wasn't like it wasn't like some kind of frou-frou thing or something you know yeah and uh i went in there and i was like god i'm i just wonder i didn't leave my debit card like back at the hotel or something i would have to go back and get that or you know keep what the reason is keep my wife in their case they were doing it uh because they were well it's aspen i mean they're just they're frou-frou right so the food wasn't frou-frou but they have the little thing come to the table and you know and check you out with this high tech thing at the table the biscuits weren't high tech but the payment methodology was high tech

they're paying for that and so yeah they are and uh like three percent every time you swipe for your stand that for biscuits i'd take a dollar but um but that's you know so anyway i was just i i had a pocket full of cash i always do but yeah thank goodness i had a debit card because sharon would probably still be there washing dishes but i would love to see an instagram post from dave ramsay i'm just sharing and i stopped i can't pay for my meal dave's in the back washing dishes and then they found out who you were they'd probably make you mop the floor too yeah twice twice just for good measure that's fantastic yeah but i mean that that's the kind of thing he's running into is and there was a there was a minute during covet i haven't heard it lately that some places quit taking cash because they

thought the little covets were on the money and um there wasn't any i'm sorry i'm trying not to laugh but you just said little covets well i think they thought the cove you know everybody was worried about what the covets were these little jurors like when they show those uh cleaning commercials the bugs and they magnify it. I mean, they were everywhere for a while, and now they only use certain channels. Apparently. But you've just got to know how they behave these days. They don't like plexiglass, I'll tell you that.

Well, I don't know. The plexiglass has come down a lot of places now. I was in the donut shop the other day, and there was Plexiglass before, and now it's down. Yeah. I went to a couple of amusement parks this summer, and I told my wife, I said, we should have found some company to invest in that has got a mutual fund in Plexiglass. Yes, I should have opened a Plexiglass company. That would have been a boon last year.

That would have been a nice ROI on that. But, yeah, there's situations like that where they wouldn't take cash because they're worried about germs. Yeah. And money is germy. There's no question about that. But, yeah, there's situations like that where they wouldn't take cash because they're worried about germs. Yeah. And money is germy. There's no question about that. Yeah. Don't put that in your mouth. It's true.

And coins as well. Remember that? Oh, yeah. Oh, gross. All right. Chad is with us. Chad's in Atlanta, Georgia. Hi, Chad.

How are you? Hey, I'm great. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. What's up? Well, we're in a position where we owe $163,000 on our mortgage, our house, and I'm in a position to pay it off. How much money do you have? I have $185,000 in cash, debt-free. We expect to make $300,000 plus a year. Cool.

What is it you love about being in debt on your mortgage? Pardon? What is it you love about being in debt on your mortgage? I don't love it, but my accountant, we have a small business, and my accountant has told me that it's a bad idea to pay off your mortgage because we're on a low mortgage rate because we should invest our money. I've got five years left on a 10-year note. So what's your house worth? The farm is worth probably

$500,000. Well, you should probably go get a bigger mortgage on it because rates are down. I'll get a bigger mortgage. If you're going to keep that accountant, you should. Because that's what his theory is. My theory, however, is fire your

accountant and pay off your mortgage today. Today? Both. Because your accountant doesn't share your values, and you have more money than he does. This is The Ramsey Show. Imagine a world where people never have to worry about money ever again. At Ramsey Solutions, our mission is to teach people how to get out of debt, build lasting wealth, and be outrageously generous. And that means we have to take on the toxic money culture that says you need debt to get ahead.

Well, we're okay with that. We've seen millions of lives changed, and we will continue to create digital products and services to help people transform their lives. If you want to join me and the over 1,000 other team members on this crusade, we're currently on the hunt for web developers, UX designers, SEO and content marketing specialists, all kinds of digital help. Together, we'll disrupt the toxic money culture in America today. To get more information on these open opportunities,

text CAREERS to 33789. Text CAREERS to 33789. Or if you want to learn about our other job offerings, we'd love to talk with you. Text CAREERS to 33789. If you're a business owner or leader, listen up. Financial wellness benefits are no longer quote-unquote optional for your employee benefits package. Now, financial wellness is a thing. The research team here at Ramsey Solutions recently put out a report that found that half of all employers say their employees are stressed about money, yet only 18% feel responsible for their employees' financial well-being.

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you can add financial wellness to your benefits package and it'll help your business text wellness to 33789 wellness to 33789 our question of the day comes from blinds.com they have a 100 satisfaction guarantee that means even if you mismeasure, you pick the wrong color, they'll remake your blinds for free. You get free samples, free shipping. And with the new promos they run every month, you'll save even more. Use the promo code RAMSEY to get the best possible deal. Today's question comes from Jennifer in Texas. She writes in, I'm 48 and I've been in an industry for 20 years that I'm not passionate about. I've done well, but I'm burned out and feel trapped.

I would love to go into nursing. Am I crazy to quit my job to go into a career where I'll make less than one-third of the income? If I stick it out for two to three years, we could pay off our house and I could just quit completely, but I'm not ready to retire. Is the financial and emotional ROI from nursing school worth going back to school, or should I stick it out? Well, let's first address the fact that you can work full-time while in nursing school. Is it very, very difficult? Yes, but you can do it. You can certainly work part-time in health care, even, where you can get some experience and, more importantly, connections for nursing when you get out of school. So when you know the reality that you can still work, that you can cash flow your way

through nursing school, here's what you can realize. You might be able to pay off the house in two to three years while you're cash flowing your way through nursing school. And if it's really about love, I would love to go into nursing. So if you really love the idea of caring for people in that nursing profession, you can make really good money, be very, very fulfilled for another 10 years, 10, 12 years based on your age. So is it worth it? You have to answer that. But I would say it's worth it if you can cash flow your way through and not go into debt because you've worked so hard to get to a point where you're going to pay off the house.

So sticking it out for two to three years in a job you can't stand, I don't think you need to do that. I would make preparations to part-time nursery school, or if you can go full-time and make some other sacrifices, I think you go for it. I completely agree. Completely agree. And her last question, is the financial and emotional ROI from nursing school worth going back to school? Yes. Without question. You'll love your work, and you'll make good money. Yes.

And you can pay off the house. Yeah. And I don't think you have to stay in the job, I agree, for two to three years. And I love the part-time idea so absolutely so yeah the thing is this you know but make sure that you love nursing not you love the idea of it and i and not you love um the money you could make that's correct so here's how you know that for those of you who are looking at this question in a different field or maybe even nursing. How do you do that? So what she does is she gets around other nurses. This is phone calls, Zooms, coffees, lunches. And by the way, there's tons of different types of nursing, ER, labor delivery, checking people in at surgery. There's a lot of different

nursing positions. And by talking to as many nurses as you can in all those different positions, here's what happens. I get head knowledge. They tell me what it's like day in, day out, what it's like to move into that position, how you advance. You'll learn everything. And then what happens is your brain processes that information, Dave. Your heart eventually goes ding, ding, ding, or er, and that's why it's so important to really know what it is. Then your heart will confirm, and now you're ready to to go don't just assume you're going to love it joe's in louisville kentucky hi joe welcome to the ramsey show hey dave thanks for taking my call sure what's up well my fiance and i um she's not a u.s citizen um but she's lived here for about eight years.

We plan to go back to Europe or move back to Europe for a year to two years while we do the application process for her permanent residency. And I'm curious if you think I should sell my house or not. Yeah. Yeah, I would. It's a great time to sell a house. Okay. And then if I do sell my house, what should I do with that extra money?

I think I would have somewhere between $80,000 and $100,000. You don't have any debt? We have no debt, which our finances are completely separated now. Sure. But we have no debt, which our finances are completely separated now. Sure. But we have no debt, neither one of us other than the mortgage. And her family has a place for us to stay for the time we're there,

so we would be living rent-free. We both work remotely. Okay. So your incomes won't change? Correct. That's cool. What do you all make? I make about $100,000.

I'm self-employed, do engineering, and she is in marketing and makes around $50,000. Excellent. Cool. When are you getting married? Well, that's a big question. We haven't planned all that. Okay. All right.

Yeah, I think I would. As far as where you park it, if you're going to park it for one year, probably just a money market account. You're not going to make any money, but you're not going to lose any money. If you're going to park it for two years or more, you may want to consider putting part of that into some mutual funds, something like an index fund, an S&P 500 fund or something like that. I'd do some of that.

But now I understand that that money goes up and down, and you could lose a few thousand or you could make a few thousand doing that. Sure. You're not going to lose 80,000 doing that, but you might lose eight eight you know uh or something like that so that you gotta if you want to play that a little bit you could that's a medium risk way to take a chance of you know instead of making eight dollars you might make eight thousand dollars but you're not gonna you're not gonna get rich on any of this well it's just sitting there you're just parking it until you're married and come back home and so forth.

So obviously the citizenship thing changes when you're married, right? Yes, and the process is delayed due to COVID. There's a big waiting list. She hasn't seen her family in quite a while, so that's why we're choosing to do that in Europe. We could do that here, but we kind of have to stay put. Can't be in and out of the border while that process is taking place oh really that's interesting as far as we know yeah okay i don't i don't know how it works honestly i'm completely ignorant of that i just know that when you're you marry an american citizen it changes the process uh substantially uh and so you know, I would guess that the sooner the marriage happened, the sooner the citizenship

would happen, in other words. But I think I would want to know about that. I heard that advice, and I'm just sitting there going, what would I do in that situation? And because of the medium risk factor, I'd probably park it in the money market because me going, I know that it's going to sit there. It's not going to gain much at all, but I know it's there. We're going to keep making money, keep adding to that, so then when we come back. That's fine.

Yeah, but there is a benefit. I mean, the money you could make, I guess, to me, it felt like too risky for me. Yeah, for the bulk of the time I've been on the air, I would have just money market right for that reason just don't worry about it you know and because uh but you know in the last decade or so i parked a lot of money short term in a and a time or two it's been down i pulled out let because i was going to go buy some real estate with it. It was down, and I lost a little bit. Most of the time, though, it was up, and I made a lot during the time it sat there. And so what I started realizing was the risk wasn't that heavy. It's not that big.

It's not huge. I mean, $8,000 isn't going to change his life. That's true. You can make $150,000 between them. Yeah, that's true. So if you want to play with it, that's fine. But if it's emotionally going to keep you up at night, then certainly do the money market. Yeah, that's true. So if you want to play with it, that's fine, but if it's emotionally going to keep you up at night, then certainly do

the money market. Yeah. This is The Ramsey Show. We'll see you next time. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, Isabella is here. Hi, Isabella. How are you? Hi, Dave. I'm doing great. Thank you guys for having me today. We're honored to have you. Where do you live? Likewise. I live in Los Angeles, California. Bit of a haul over to Nashville. Welcome. Good to have you. And how much debt have you paid off, Isabella? I paid off $34,473.82. Awesome. How long did this take you? 12 months. 12 months? And your range of income during that time? It was about 56, and it ended around 60.

Cool. Okay. What kind of debt was the $34,000? The majority of my debt was student loans and a little bit of credit card. It was all student loans. What do you do for a living? I'm in real estate now. I just actually passed my real estate license last month, and so I've been doing real estate

for a few months now in California. What were you doing before that for the 56 to 60? Before that, I was actually in international education and I was doing that for the full year. And I was also doing some part-time jobs as well to supplement my income to be really gazelle intense and focused to pay off the student loans. Good for you. How old are you? I'm 30. am i going to be 31 tomorrow actually tomorrow's my birthday happy birthday

thank you very cool thank you okay so something happened i mean your 20s goes away we're sitting on 30 or so 29 or 30 and we're looking down and there's this nagging student loan that won't go away what happened what was the breakthrough well it was actually started a few years before that, actually. I was teaching in China, actually, so I was there for about four years. Wow. And I thought I wanted to go into government work as a foreign service officer, and so that's why I went to go get my master's. And then I had an internship in Hong Kong

and I decided that I really liked what I was doing at the time but I didn't see myself doing it long term I would rather be focused more on the business side entrepreneurial side and so I left China and I came back to the States

in I believe it was 2015 and I really started to the States in, I believe it was 2015. And I really started to get gazelle tense in 2019. Earlier that year, my mother passed away actually, really unexpectedly. And so that was kind of the catalyst for me to really get my affairs in order and really focus on something that I know she would be extremely proud about. And also for me, you know, I was working in education at the time and I was like, how should I have debt over my head when I'm being in this field, I'm coaching students. And so I really wanted to clean up my backyard essentially.

Yeah. Yeah. That's powerful. There's something about a friend of mine, a pastor friend of mine, and I were speaking at a funeral a while back. And he made a comment I've never forgotten. He said losing someone at a funeral, a birth, either one, are both tuning forks. And you retune your life. Because we all get real introspective when those kinds of things happen. And the loss of your mom does that. And it's just, okay, this life thing is short.

I better get it right. For sure, for sure. And so later that year, actually, I started Financial Peace University at a church. And I brought my sister along with me. And it was funny. She made a comment. She was 21 at the time. And she's like, I'm too young for this. I shouldn't be going to this.

And I was just telling her, actually, this is like the perfect time that you should be learning about this so you can grow and invest earlier. And so I dragged her along with me. And I finished the course at the end of 2019. And then in 2020, in March, that's when I got really focused. And that's when I was beans and rice, rice and beans. I was doing whatever I could to get out of debt and it was really hard

because I went through actually several losses. I actually was going through a breakup at the time too. So there was a lot of times where it was during the pandemic as well where everything just really seemed really difficult. A lot of stress. Right, a lot of stress, like loss and stuff. But I always pushed myself to, this season is not going to last forever.

And that's when I would always listen to your podcast. I took a lot of inspiration from other Dead Scream people as well. And listening to your podcast when I would drive to and from work, that would always keep me focused. Whenever I just didn't want to work so hard or times where I just felt like it was kind of insurmountable, listening to you and other people really was something that kept me focused on the path, for sure. So I want to ask you, how did this, I mean, I love that story, unbelievable grit, so proud of you. How did that journey, that singular focus on getting out of debt,

how did it play into you becoming a real estate professional and kind of scratching that entrepreneurial itch? Because I'm assuming this was all part of the transition, getting debt-free and moving into real estate. Yes. So my last position, it was a means to an end. So it was a means for me to get out of debt. Once I got out of debt, earlier this year, actually, I was like, I want to get my real estate license. And so it took me six and a half months from when I started to when I passed to actually get it

done so when I paid off my debt I was able to I went online and I filled out the questionnaire for Dave Ramsey to be here to get the debt free screen and then after that I took my real estate exam and I passed so it was just kind of everything just kind of happened

like a domino effect. So I love this. Dave, this is day job to dream job. There's nothing wrong with a day job, right? That gets us out of debt, that prepares us while we're getting qualified for the dream job. Great job. Good for you. And now, have you sold your first house yet? I've sold actually four already. Touchdown.

How does that feel? It feels amazing and I actually had like a mid-year review with one of my mentors at my company. And he was saying that, you know, that he's kind of impressed about how quick and I'm learning the ropes. And I told him this is the first time actually I've ever had a job that I felt like matched my personality so well. That's great. And it feels great. It's like you make your own schedule.

You go in when you want to. You leave when you want to. And your results are reflected on how much effort and how hard you push yourself. Who'd you bring with you? I brought my sister and my father. All right. They heard me all year long. Biggest cheerleaders in your life, huh?

Nonstop talking about it, yes. Your dad, he's over there shaking his head. He's proud of you. Very well done. Super, super, yeah. Very cool. Good stuff. Good stuff.

What do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is? I tell people definitely it's consistency, discipline, and also just a belief in yourself. Because there's going to be times when it gets really really hard and you're not going to really have anybody on your side really pushing you because everybody has their own agenda their own things to do and so really a firm belief and vision in yourself and your future is what's going to get you through those hard times yeah way to go isabella you're a rock star you. You're a hero. Very, very proud of you. A lot of transition there. Yes. A lot of

change. A lot of stuff going on. A lot of stress. All during a stressful time. Pulled it all off. You're an amazing young woman. Very, very well done. Very well done. Good stuff. Alright, we've got a copy of the Legacy Journey for you. That is definitely the next chapter in your story to continue to change your

entire legacy now. Very well done. And a copy of the Total Money Makeover book. You can pass that along to someone when you're talking about Financial Peace University like you drug your 21-year-old sister there a few years ago. So very cool stuff. Good stuff. All right. It's Isabella from Los Angeles.

$34,000 paid off in 12 months, making $56,000 to $60,000. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. I'm debt-free! Yeah! Woo-hoo! Yeah!

This is how it's done right here. So I have a prediction for you. All right. She's going to make over $100 in the real estate business her first year. Oh, yes. For sure. She's going to double her income. Yeah, she's going to crush it.

And zoom through the baby steps because of it. Just boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, ticking them off. Just crushing it. Yeah, she's got two out of the way. She's relaxed. She's not afraid of hard work. She's got a poise of the way she's relaxed she's not afraid of hard work she's got a a poise yes and a way she carries herself she's going to do very very well on the real estate business yeah it's going to work out very well and but there's something interesting

there's a tie there always has been between what you do and what we what i do the career and the money yeah right that that the the money being right frees you up to do the career. The career being right, making a lot of money, frees you up to go win with your money. That's right. They bounce back and forth between you. It's a ping pong, and it works together. That's it. She did it so well.

It's the left-right combination. And I just want to tell you, your mom is so proud. I know your dad and your sister are proud, but so is your mama. Amen. Incredible fortitude. Proud of them. Amen. Amen. this is the ramsey show

you Thank you. Our scripture of the day, Proverbs 17, 17. A friend loves at all times, and a brother is born for a time of adversity. Mother Teresa said, some people come into your life as blessings. Other people come into your life as blessings. Other people come into your life as lessons. Isn't that the truth? I have never heard that one. That is fabulous. I'm thinking about my kids right now.

She is so sweet. I'm thinking about people that are not as nice as your kids. That's true, too. Peak real estate season is just around the corner this year. Things are different. Home prices are higher. Competition between buyers is intense. Man, you could make a six-figure mistake screwing around out there in real estate right now.

Don't jump headfirst into something you don't understand. If you don't know where to start, you're not financially ready for a mortgage. If you don't have questions, if you have questions about how to buy or sell, get with a pro. Start by connecting with one of our endorsed local providers. These are high-octane, high-protein agents that actually know what the flip they're doing. They sell a lot of houses. It's not amateur hour out there right now, boys and girls. If you're selling a house when everybody's giving you multiple bids above asking price,

50% of the homes in America sold above asking price in May. Wow. First time in history. You don't want a rookie agent managing multiple offers above this. This is someone who knows how to juggle the flaming swords. You need to have somebody who knows how to do it. Go to RamseySolutions.com slash agent. If you're going to list a house right now, this is a great time to sell a house.

Horrible time to do it with a rookie. Horrible time. I know that your Aunt Sally just got her license. I don't give a crap. Your Aunt Sally doesn't know what she's doing. She's sweet. You can have her bake cookies, but don't ever sell your house. That's ridiculous.

If she didn't sell 300 houses last year, 50 houses last year, let's not talk about it. Never sold a house in her life, she's going to list yours. Dumb idea. RamseySolutions.com slash agent. Get with one of our endorsed local providers. They'll help you do it right. Victoria is with us in Boston.

Hi, Victoria. How are you? Hi, Gabe. I'm doing great. I'm so excited to talk to you. You too. What's up in your world? Well, I got married seven months ago, and me and my husband are wondering if there is

a rule of thumb or a percentage of our take-home or gross income that we should be saving towards a baby fund. What's a baby fund like um i know that you tell people when they i learn that they're expecting to store away you know as much money as they can we have a plan where we don't want to get pregnant for seven years which is a whole story but um in those seven years we're going to pay off our house so i can stay home with the kids wow okay you do not need a baby you do not need a baby fund you need an emergency when i tell people to stop doing their baby steps it's because they don't have any money saved and i don't want them working paying off debt and have no money

while they're pregnant that's what it is gosh well we already have our emergency fund yeah i bet i can tell you guys are you guys are a wee bit into planning but yeah a little bit yeah my husband turned me on to you long ago before we got married and was a requirement that i took financial peace before we got married wow hardcore okay yeah well i'm honored i appreciate that so yeah i i think if you have your emergency fund and you're doing your investing and you're building up wealth to pay off the house or pay cash for a house or whatever your plan is there, I think you're going to have plenty of money to buy some diapers if you need to. I thought so.

I just didn't know if there was a rule with them. Well, thank you so much. Thank you. I appreciate the call. Very cool. Eric is in Cincinnati. Hi, Eric. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Thank you for taking my call, sir. How are you? Sure. Better than I deserve. What's up? Hey, so just a quick question for you. I'm 26. I just finished Baby Step 3. I have no debt. I make $20,000 a year, not very much. I have two years in college and i rent uh next baby step is doing uh retirement says 50 15 for retirement is that something i should be doing right now or should i be focusing on other things you said you have two years of college yeah um i dropped out after two years my parents fortunately have given me some money, student loans, covered the rest. Okay, so you're 20.

You make $20,000 a year? And I'm 26, correct. 26, and you make $20,000 a year. Okay, so what are your career plans? I'm a golf professional right now. That was when I was majoring in college, so that's, you know, if you ask why I stopped going to college. But, yeah, you know, I'm a teaching professional. I've grown up playing golf all my life.

That's what I love doing. But, you know, right at some point I've got to make those life decisions. Are you a teaching pro? Is that what you mean when you're a professional? Correct. Okay. Correct. Why are you only making $20,000?

I'm on salary for $2,000 a month. After taxes, it's about $1,750. You kind of have to get your way through in that. And you don't get paid per lesson or anything? That's like, they call that tips, more or less. But yeah, I get probably about $60 a lesson. So it's nice. It's a little something.

But you're not doing many lessons? No, I probably do about60 a lesson. So, you know, it's nice. It's a little something, but, you know, to say that's... But you're not doing many lessons. No, I probably do about five a week, five or six. You probably about once a day, maybe twice. I don't understand how you're only making $20,000. I've got friends that are teaching pros that are making really good money teaching with lessons. Yeah, right.

Most of my hours are in the shop. You know, I'd say I'm doing it, being a teaching professional. It's not my primary job there, but yeah, I do about eight to 10 hours in the shop and then times in the mornings I teach. All right, what's the next rung on the ladder? Because it's been a while

since I've talked to somebody who's doing this. You're in the shop, basically minding the pro shop, and then you're doing a little bit of extra teaching for not much. $60 a lesson. So what's the next step up? What's that look like financially? It'd be a head pro or you're doing teaching all the time

and what you're thinking. But, you know, I'm more calling to ask as a say, you know, hey, should we be doing a new career path? Should we go back to school? No, no, no. If you want to be a golf pro, no, you don't need to go back to school. I mean, you're already in. It's a pay-your-dues business, much more so than a lot of industries.

You've got to kind of slog, and you know how political it is, too. You've kind of got to look for an opening somewhere else because it's probably a long shot that the guy who's the head pro now is going to just up and leave. So you're going to have to be head on a swivel very aggressive networking connecting like crazy because it is very hard to get a head pro job right yeah you're starving to death and unless you put in place a plan to move up this ladder yes you do need to do something different yeah and you don't sound very intense about it you sound kind of flipping about it when you're talking about it i'm i'm i'm pretty happy with

how my life is going um you know i'm always seeking new opportunities uh but you know i'm working right now but building a resume in a sense i mean if you want to say no then fine but you know okay yeah you need to start saving 15 your income, but you need to work on your income. Yeah, that's what it comes down to. You're not making much money, and you need to have some kind of a goal for your life that when you're 36, you're not making the same that you're making when you're 26. Yeah, you know what? Dave normally calls me nice guy. I'm not going to be so nice here. I know this industry. My brother started in it now as a division three head golf coach you are nothing more than an assistant manager of a pro

shop and you got a little bit of teaching if you call yourself a teaching pro then you need to get really jacked up about teaching lessons because if you teach lessons uh in a in a well you know nice community like Cincinnati, Ohio, a lot of golf there. Ohio's a big golf craze state. If you really, really wanted to make more money, this is about you getting serious about lessons where you can get really good pay. I'm with Dave.

I don't think you're fired up. I think you're enjoying your life and you're comfortable. But here's the reality. Don't say you're a teaching pro when you're not you're minding the golf store and and and checking people in for their tea times so you got to decide what is it that you really want to do but this idea of i'm going to go back to school for a better career well you don't even know what you want to do yet and so there's some decision making for you right now and this is a pretty pivotal point in your life at 26 it's time even if you go back to school after you get the degree you still have to get up leave the cave making for you right now and this is a pretty pivotal point in your life at 26 it's time even

if you go back to school after you get the degree you still have to get up leave the cave and kill something and drag it home that's right and that that's what's struggling in this conversation so you like your life the way it is i you know save 15 of your income but dude if you make 20 000 the rest of your life you know you're you're you're gonna struggle period know, you're going to struggle, period. I mean, you're going to be at the poverty level. That's what it amounts to. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. Thanks to Ken Coleman, my co-host today, James Childs, my producer, and Madison, our associate

producer and phone screener. I am Dave Ramsey. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Have a friend or family member that needs a daily dose of Ramsey advice in their life? Let them know about the Ramsey Call of the Day podcast. It's a quick hit of advice about life and money in under 10 minutes.

Check out the Ramsey Call of the Day podcast wherever you listen to podcasts.