The Ramsey Show - App - "My Dad Wants Me To Give Him My $300,000 Trust"

Episode Date: December 2, 2025

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Normal is broke and normal is broke and common sense is weird so we're here to help you with your life From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is The Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Ken Coleman, number one best-selling author, Ramsey personality, and host of Front Row Seat, one of our more popular Ramsey Network shows. He's my co-host today. Open phones here at AAA-825-225. Jack is in Little Rock, Arkansas. Hi, Jack. How are you?

Doing well. Thank you, Dave and Ken. Thank you for taking a call. Sure. What's up? Yeah, so basically my grandfather had passed away about five years ago, and he had left a trust to his three children, and basically the way it had been set up is that after my father passed away, I would receive a lump sum. um each of those uh each sibling got a lump sum payment from that trust um however for my dad he has been historically been bad with money and it was set up for him that he would receive

payments annually in the trust um and then once he passes away i would receive the lump sum and after this he is basically saying that he wants to have me sign a document that releases the trust to him

and he plans to spend the money and he's threatening me by bribing with $5,000 up front $5,000.

$5,000. thousand dollars how much is in the trust from what i understand whenever my grandfather was still around um i believe his portion is between 250 and 300 000 so you're going to trade he's asking you to trade 300 000 dollars for 5 000 bucks from what it seems he has said that he wants to take that lump sum and he wants to renovate his house because he is 63 years old. He works as a lawyer and he wants to renovate his house. He wants to buy a new car and he claims that I will have the rest of the money. however with his historic run of dealing with finances i don't believe that there will be any

money left hey jack hey jack quick question you've used two words with us you said threatened and bribe what what does that actually look like i haven't heard any evidence of that i would say it's it's definitely more so bribing um him just throwing out out one time he said, the first time he said, I'll get you $10,000, then the second time we had talked about it, he said that he would give me $5,000 up front. Okay, so what kind of, I mean, I'm sorry, it's, it's just, the math is not mathing. I mean, he's so illogical that he actually believes you would trade $5,000 for $250? that's just bizarre to me

I totally agree what planet does he live on that he thinks you would do that I don't know I don't either okay so you're using words like bullied and bribed with your own father irresponsible about your own father your grandfather thought he was irresponsible so you're not going to do this

you had already decided that before you called right yes okay yes so how can we help you However, yes, I really just want to know how to navigate that conversation with my father because I know that you want to know something that's impossible. It's impossible for you to take a man that is this unreasonable and make him reasonable with one conversation. That's not possible, okay? So this unreasonable man is going to have an unreasonable reaction to your reasonable no. there's no way you can frame a no that this guy's going to like it and he's going to go oh thank you son i just love you so much i'm so proud of you that's what you wish would happen there's no conversation

that does that because of what you're dealing with on the other side of this you know it's like petting a crocodile and going nice crocodile nice crocodile and hoping you don't get your arm bit off of course you're going to get your arm bit off it's a crocodile So, you know, that's what we're dealing with. So I wish I could make this make you have a good dad, but you don't. And so what I can do is just give you the real, the realistic expectation, which is you preserve your dignity, your courage, your kindness, your integrity. That's the only thing you have control over. You don't have control over his reaction.

So you gently and kindly say, dad. Grandpa put this in place, and I'm just going to abide by grandpa's wishes. Thanks for asking. I'm sorry it doesn't work for me, and we're just going to leave the thing set up like it is. But thanks for asking. I hope you can find another way to get your house renovated and get you a car since you're a lawyer and all. And I'll be cheering for you because I love you. And he's still going to go bonkers, isn't he?

Yes. Yeah. So 100% be expecting that. Anything less than bonkers, we'll call it gravy on the biscuit. We'll call it a bonus. But I'm counting on bonkers. Yeah, Jack, I don't know if you've ever had surgery before, but I would say that your mindset here has got to be the same as going into surgery that you have to have. It's not fun.

It's going to hurt. It's going to be some recovery time. But it absolutely has to happen. And on the other side of the surgery, you're going to be better off. And there can be healing. That's right. And I think you have to go into this. going, there's just no way.

I think Dave framed it beautifully, but as a response to what Dave said, you've got to understand, this is one of the situations of life that was forced on you. You cannot control your dad or the situation he's put you in, but you got to do what's best for you. So that's the mindset. There's no way this is not going to suck. But on the other side, you're going to be better. Anytime you're setting a boundary with a boundaryless person, less is more.

So this is a very short, concise conversation. Okay. We're not going into a bunch of explanation or discussion of his character or the history of the family tree. We're not going to try to explain this to him. We're not going to go into a bunch of detail. It's a simple thing. Dad, you know, I love you. And I've thought about this.

And I think I'm just going to stick with Grandpa's plan. And that's what we're going to do. So I hope it works out for you. And I'll be cheering for you. And just that, that's what, 10 seconds maybe of audio. And that's all you need. The longer you talk, the more you're going to mess this up. So I use that when over 35 years now of running a business

and the rare occasion that we actually have to let someone leave this place. We don't have long discussions. We've had long discussions up to that point trying to get them better. But the day they leave, it's like the decision has been made. Today is your last day. That's it. We don't go into why, because why's been discussing. in the 90 days previous.

John is in San Jose. Hey, John, how are you doing, Dave? Better than I deserve. What's up? Hi, so I just have a quick question. A little bit of a background. I have a job as an asset. I got a notice making around $120K.

I got a notice last month, and they pretty much, I got laid off. So my last day was yesterday. Essentially, my question is, I live in San Jose, California. My house is worth around $750,000. My dad actually gave it to me 32 years old. And so I have $50,000 in student loans, $25,000 in a personal loan, $25,000 in a car loan, and then around $5,000 in credit card debt. And because of the job loss, I'm kind of concerned right now, the market's kind of bad in, like, the tech sector.

So I'm wondering, like, if I were to default on these loans, like can they take uh can they foresell my home or how does that look like and you know will they be willing to like settle on some of this debt i do have around uh 10,000 dollars in savings and around 50,000 dollars and 401k money that I can pool out if needed are you married uh yes i am married uh that's another thing my wife used to work she made around 60 to 70 thousand dollars a year but she paused that because she's not she just got into law school and she's uh fulfilling her dreams of becoming a lawyer what were you making 120 120 with no house with no house payment and yet you still ran up all this debt um i do have a house

payment it is um 1,300 oh i thought you said the house is free and clear how much is your mortgage No, no, there's a mortgage around $50,000. Oh, okay. So I do have a house payment and housing in the Bay Area is pretty expensive. So, you know, apart from like the debt that I have and utilities, like I'm spending around maybe. Okay, you got to notice a month ago. Why have you not gotten a job? I've been applying.

I've been getting interviews, but I have noticed that it's been fairly slow. So, yeah, actively applying, actively going into interviews. So, yes, working on it. I guess I'm just concerned about, like, if the job market is as severe, like, it is. Like, I think I have enough money to cover myself for, like, maybe about four to six months. But I am worried about that six months. The money you gave me doesn't cover you four to six months. You can't make it four to six months on $10,000.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So there's a bunch of answers to this question. All right. And let me give you all of them. First and foremost, you get reemployed, and this is a non-issue. And that's what you spend all of your calories on.

That's what you work on. And Ken can really help line you up on that. Then I'll move on. If you don't get reemployed, really you just ought to have. your butt kicked if you don't go get some money coming in go get a job and ken's going to help you with all that but if you don't let's just pretend you never work again okay for the next year and a half okay so you will have to pay the first mortgage payment or that 50 000 will foreclose on you you know that yeah in which case if i really needed to i can call my dad and he'll pay the mortgage

I guess that's not really the issue, but he, I guess the background is my dad's kind of like you. He hates that he doesn't get any credit card. Yeah, he's not real proud that you ran up $25,000 on a person line, $25,000 on a car after he gave you a dadgum house. Yeah, yeah, I know. It's pretty stupid. Yeah, and that's what he's going to say, too. Sounds like. Okay.

But, yeah, so you're not going to lose the house from the first. foreclosure that way will the other people put a lien on the house and force the sale of the house in california it's almost impossible to do that okay they eventually would sue you not the student loans but the personal loan the car repose first then they sue you on the deficit or they sue you on the credit cards or whatever else when they sue you they win the lawsuit after they win the lawsuit they execute on a lawsuit and that's when in some states they can take a lien on your residence and a lien on your income called a garnishment. But all of that is six or eight months from now at the earliest.

Your biggest concern is making the mortgage payment, and your biggest concern is just getting another job, and then clean up this dad-gum mess when you get your new job, so you're not vulnerable like this. Yeah, no, I know. Yeah, I made some dumb decisions, so. Okay, so about getting the job. Yeah, my question is, and there's no question the employment market is softening.

There's no question about that. I don't know your area, but what was your tech specialty? Yeah, I'm an analyst. Okay, but do you have any other tech skills? In other words, what did you do on the ladder up to becoming an analyst? So I guess a bit of a background as I used to work like manual warehousing jobs. Okay. And then I recently got through my education, and I got promoted into an analyst position.

So other than manual labor and analyst work, that's pretty much really good. Okay, great. So here's the thing. Dave's exactly right. We want to focus on short-term, then long-term. So while you're looking for long-term, meaning getting back in the tech industry, there's two strategies. If I were you, this is what I would do.

First, I would be absolutely beating the door down for all in any kind of contract-type opportunities. So freelance work. So what we see in this job economy right now, this is true of tech, is where you may see a slowdown and hiring of full-time positions, what they start to do is they look for contract work, workers, freelance. So I would be looking for all those opportunities. Even if it's a short-term, I got a four-month deal here, I jump in and take it, all right? That's why you're looking for the long-term role.

But the second thing I would be doing is, and this is where people make a mistake, They take activity of, I'm applying, I've had some interviews, and gosh, the market's a little tough. All that's true, but you need to go back to the warehouse, get back in a manual labor game because we have a $1,300 mortgage payment, and then the rest of the four walls, right? And that's your utilities, that's the car, the transportation, groceries, all that kind of stuff. You and your wife have also got to sit down and go, do we need to press pause on law school? Because law school will still be there. But we have two adults here that are in a financial problem.

I wouldn't call it a crisis. But if we both go to work right now, we can cover the mortgage and every bit of this until we get back on our feet. But I'm hearing a mentality here, which is, gosh, Dave, Kim, what do I do? The market's tough. And I'm going to, could they take my house? That is the wrong question. The question is, how can I make the amount of money?

how can my wife and I together make the amount of money we need to make it until I get a more stable job situation? Hey, John. Period. Hey, John. Yeah. Can I love you enough to be mean to you for a minute? Yeah.

You give me permission? You give me permission? Yes, yes. You don't sound like a motivated person. I guess it's just like the mixture of, you know, getting laid off. could be but your dad's willing to jump in pay a house payment your dad gave you a house thing your wife's in law school you just don't sound like you're fired up about this and in the world i come from you get you get fired up about this and yeah you got knocked down but they gave

you a month notice and you still hadn't fixed it and you got you got you got bills to pay people to feed man so i want you get wired up and fired up get up off your butt and go be a man go knock some stuff down dude um don't call your daddy up up for payments. Let's get with it. That's what I would tell my son. Okay. And so I'm going to love you enough to be that mean to you. I know you're knocked down. I know you're a little bit down the dumps. But hey, it's FedEx and UPS. Go load boxes. It's Christmas time. They'll hire you today. And then get up off your butt and go fix this and get you a job making $120. And then clean up this lazy butt financial mess you've made and quit doing this. You have too good a head start.

Way too good a head start. Go fix it, man. you can do it. We've been partnering with a great organization called Preborn for quite a while now, and it's on the front lines and the fight for life. They offer free ultrasounds, ultrasound machines, training, grants, and evangelism tools. They provide hope, not judgment, so moms that are in Christ, can see the life in their wounds and hear the gospel message at the same time when a mom sees her baby on the ultrasound she chooses life 80% of the time now the gift is just $28 a month and so we're having giving day today in the nation this is giving day and when you're thinking about ways to pay it forward $28 a month gives the opportunity for a mom to see her baby and then she'll choose life go to preborn.com slash Ramsey or call call it 855601 2229 and this is an opportunity to really, really make a difference.

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Hi, Josh. How are you? I'm doing well, sir. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? My question today is I'm in the process of starting to track down the debts I've got floating out there.

And looking on credit karma, I have figured out that in the grand scheme of things, I really don't have that much debt. about $5,200, but it's split between three different collection agencies. So today I decided to try to call and negotiate those down to try to get those drop down to where I say, hey, I've got this much money. Can we close this out to where I owe you guys no more money and send me a piece of paper before I send any payment? And what I figured out today is those guys are not very nice. and my question to you is how do I need to word the negotiation process to really better my chances to get it to where I can lower this down and get this debt closed out

yeah so what caused you to be in collections oh a whole lifetime of bad choices um went from I was in the military for four years and in the process of that, I got married, accrued some debt by some bad choices. A lot of that has actually gone away just with time. What's happened that's caused you to decide to step forward and clean this up? I am wanting to wipe the slate clean, start over, and get a fresh start. My parents have followed your plan and have themselves gotten debt-free. How old are you?

I am 29, about to be 30. Thank you for your service to your country, sir. Glad to do it, sir. So, do you know the, so the 5200 is three? Give me an example of one of the three. The largest of which would be $2,700 and worth $2748, so 2007. Is that the current balance or the original balance? I believe that's the current balance.

It's just what it shows on credit karma when I pull. up the app and look at it. All right. So did you call and talked to them, and did you try to give them $2748? I called one of the smaller ones. Okay. There was one that was $2,018. I called them, and I essentially said, I have $1,000 I can pay you today.

You send me a piece of paper, or email, mail, some form of document that says that this account, is closed and I owe you no more money right and what when I when I brought that up after finally getting through to somebody he essentially told me that that's not how that works it is how it works and what happens next is if you don't agree to this I'm going to hang up on you and I'm going to call the next one and give him the thousand dollars because you're too stupid to take it this is how you talk to him and that is exactly how I ordered it too and I said well I have somebody else on my list you don't want to take my money I'll call my next person. Yeah. And then just do that three times a day until you get through to somebody that has

two brain cells. Because what happens with these people that are credit card collectors and old debt collectors in these situations? They're national companies. They're sitting in cubicles 150 people in an office or they're working from home, one of the two. And there's, you know, fluorescent lights overhead. It's like a boiler room type thing. Something you would see in a movie, right? And it's a horrible job. and they have figured out that if they can elicit emotion from you, get you angry or afraid that your thinking centers of the brain don't operate anymore, you move to the frontal lobe into the lizard brain, which is fight or flight.

And if they can get you where you're not thinking, you will not think and pay them. Yeah, it's funny you bring that up because I actually just recently had a situation happen where I was scammed out of a large amount of money and that is exactly the strategy they used. Yeah. And so fear and anger are the two things are trying to activate. And so if you'll just remember that the person you're talking to has an average time on the job of 21 days, you now have more training than they do after you and I have this

discussion. They're only taught to do one thing. Piss the guy off and you'll get money from him. And so anything they do, they make up all kinds of stuff. stuff they'll call your wife names they'll call your dog names they'll talk about your mama i mean it's it's on and on and on it's just it's a game it's a psychological game and just go so i'm going to return to short quick sentences that are very calm it's like hey i understand that this is your job and you're trying to this technique but here's the deal it doesn't change the fact i got a thousand dollars and it

doesn't change the fact i'm getting rid of hang up and call the next guy so do you want to talk about this or not, yes or no. And if you say anything other than yes, I'm going to push end on my phone in this conversation's over. Ready? Here's your opportunity. Say yes. And when they go, just hit a hang up. Okay. And then just move on. And you may have to call five or six times to each one of them to get it figured out. But you're exactly right. Do not give them electronic access to your checking account. They lie. They'll clean you out. Only wire them money or send them a prepaid debit card with the exact amount on it and that's all that's ever going to be on that card and it's done something like that and you must have it in writing because they lie you can tell they're

lying if their mouth is moving before you do it now if you have $5,200 life's going to be a lot easier if you just get it in writing that this is the actual amount and then I will send you the money okay but if you want to try to settle it for 50 cents on the dollar like you're doing because you don't have the money, because you got scammed, then that's how you're going to do it. But you've just got to remember this is an industry that is based on very primitive juvenile techniques. And they have zero ethics at all. And so people call making the mistake of thinking, I'm talking to a normal human being. And this is not a normal conversation.

Like if you owed me money or I owed you money, Josh, and we would talk and we would try to be. somewhat reasonable. We might be angry or we might, but we're still going to try to keep a connection. But that has nothing to do with what you're doing here. You're just jumping into a barrel of piranha and trying to get out with your skin on. That's all you're doing. I love that you lay that out for folks because I'd love for you to weigh in on this. They have to know that they're not going to get most of that money. So they only have those techniques. And if you, our audience, understand what Dave just taught you, Dave, they will settle. They're just thrilled to get a thousand bucks. Truth be known. Is that fair? Yeah, most of the time, yeah. Because they know.

They've done the numbers. It's a game. Now, they get, and if it is a, someone calling you, it could be a debt buyer, and you can buy old, bad debt, people buy blocks of it and then try to collect it, right? You can buy that for about a nickel on the dollar. Wow. So, I mean, you were here a few years ago. I remember we bought, we bought $10 million, $8,000 accounts, $10 million with the debt for $259,000. And then that was our Christmas, part of our Christmas around here, 8,000 accounts. We had 1,000 people. Each person got to call eight people and say, in Jesus name, your debt is forgiven.

And that's Merry Christmas. And we're going to send you an email telling you that. And so for $259,000, we got rid of $10 million with the debt. That was $2.5.5 on the dollar. That's crazy. So, but we got a bargain on it because they knew what we were doing. and they knew we were just forgiving it. You ever feel like you're doing everything right with your money,

but you're still not getting anywhere? Well, you're not alone if you got that treadmill action going. Maybe you've made the changes and had a few wins, but something still feels off. Well, it's not because you failed. It's because money isn't simply math. It's also emotional. And that emotional fight can quietly sabotage or accelerate your progress.

That's exactly what Jade Washaw's new book, what no one tells you about money is all about. It's the first Ramsey book that takes an honest in-depth look at the emotional side of money. Yes, we've got the practical tools to make progress for good, but she's also going to give you the practical tools to make you the hero because you start to understand this is not just a math problem. pre-order right now for 2499 get over $100 in free bonus items enhanced audio book early access to the e-book instant access to an exclusive video of your financial checkup with jade book exclusive three week online book club and a live Q&A with jade all of that is included if you pre-order this book right now comes out the first of january pre-order today at ramsysolutions dot com slash store or if you're watching on youtube or podcast click the link in the description. Daniel is with us in New York. Hi, Daniel. How are you? Hey, I'm doing a right, Dave. How about you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Uh, so I'm 29, and I'm planning on going back to school because we're a radiological technician or a x-ray tech, and I'm trying to figure out whether or not I should keep investing or if I should stop investing to pay for school.

Uh, how much is school? So they charge 800, credit and it's for an associate's degree. So it's going to be $48,000. That's not including fees, textbooks, and travel because I have to travel once a semester as well. And I'll be doing clinicals depending on the site. So do you know the all-a number? So what's the all-in number? I do not know the all-in number. Rough guess is $60,000. That sounds right. What do you make now? Right now I make $58,000. So how long is it going to take you to save $60,000? I'm actually pretty close to that because I was supposed to be getting married next year. Unfortunately, things are going to work out, so I have $54,000 in the bank right now.

Oh, okay. Is this a full-time school? Yes, it'd be full-time. It'd be full-time online. How are you paying for food while you're in school? So I'm feeling home with my family because I was figuring stuff out for a while, and my X at the time we're going to move out. So I'm still with mom and dad at the time.

How old are you? 29. Okay, you've said that, I'm sorry. Why X-ray tech, how'd you pick this? So I work as a security guard in a medical facility, and one of our departments is imaging, and this seems like it's, I've always been interested in capturing, like, images and stuff

and working with photography. I never really got around to it, I was always interested, but never really applied myself because I was too lazy. And then I decided to make a major change and trying to start pushing my life forward and make big changes, and I think this is the right one. Yeah. How long does it take to get through the school? The school is online. How long does it take to get through the school?

What do you mean to get to the... Same question. How long as long is it going to take you to graduate? Oh, two years. I'm sorry. I thought you said to get to the school. It'll take me two years to graduate. So you can't do any kind of work while doing this program for two years?

No, I'll be working full-time. I'll be working full-time as my security guard. I work from 16 to 2 p.m. And then I finished my shift at, I finished at 2. And then I'll be work. I'll be going to class from 5 p.m. to 10 p.m. Fantastic. I don't see why you need to stop investing.

Do you have any debt? I have no debt. What does your current investing program look like? What are you doing? So I was investing 6% into my company 401K. They match it back and put 2%. And then at the end of the year, they put 5.5. So at the end of the year, they match 7.5%.

And then I was investing into a wrong. If you keep investing, you don't have any overhead to live and you're earning money. You would have the money to get through school with the $54,000 if you keep investing. So it's not really an either-or, is it? No, it's not. Okay. So let's start school today And let's keep investing and keep working

Ready set go Yeah I'm already enrolled I should be starting January 5th I'm just waiting on a Yeah Okay So the only question we had then is do you stop investing

No I don't think you have to Because you got 54,000 in a full-time job So you'll have the money The investing won't keep you from completing school Mathematically no okay then keep investing yeah absolutely that's easy that's easy okay took a minute to get through your whole story but yeah that's good i like it very good proud of you man go get it he's got a plan he's executing the plan boom how cool is that it is cool i loved his

answer quick little lesson for people here's a guy that's trying to figure out what he's doing he called himself lazy a lot of self-awareness there and he's security guard in a facility that has a craft that he's intrigued by. He clearly does his homework. And he goes, I've always been interested in capturing images. He never probably thought of being an x-ray tech. But now this is what I would call a new trade. And this is a very, very essential, if you remember that stupid word that was thrown around during COVID. This is a good trade to pick up. He's got some opportunities, Dave, to branch off of that. So this is a great move here. It's a good first step in his medical career. That is correct. Yeah, it's not the end. No, no. Puts him

on a good ladder. Yeah, but also he's, your book, The Proximity Principle, he's in proximity. That's right. Very smart. With something that he ends up doing. Exactly. Although it had nothing to do with what he was actually hired to do. That's right.

It's a good chance, by the way, that when he finished the program, he comes back into that same building. He just changes out the work clothes. And I love that, you know. You know, I wonder if they would pay for it. It's very possible. It depends on the demand. Do they need people?

And this is key. Great question, Dave. Because here's the thing. If you were in a field. or planning to go into a field, do an extra set of homework assignments to go, what's the need across the nation, not just in my locale? Does this industry, are they having a hard time recruiting people and getting people in? In that case, Dave, you would see a lot of companies go, we like you, we'll invest in you.

The deal is you've got to come work for us. It's a great deal. He's already working for them. He's already in the building. So it's an employee benefit to pay for continuing ed to work for us in a different department. But like you said, change clothes. And the correlation, by the way, Dave, is always, is there a higher demand from employers? They need people.

They usually do, especially in the medical field. Jeff's in Springfield. Hey, Jeff, how are you? Fine. I hope you're doing well. Better than we deserve. What's up, brother? Well, I'm a 68-year-old, semi-retired guy that my wife passed away four years ago.

I'm sorry. expectively. The light goes on. I call it Jeff 2.0. Mm-hmm. And I'm retired. I've got a great pension. I get about $80,000 a year in my pension.

Mm-hmm. And I have about $80,000 in investments, including 401Ks, and my house is paid for. And I make a little money on the side. I just looked up at my clock and I'm running short on time. What's your question? I recently found reconnected. Reconnected with a professional help with a old girlfriend and the problem we're talking about getting married The problem is she's a health professional got $100,000 in student loan debt and some other bills

And if my house is paid for I'm pretty much debt free if we go any further than a relationship Should I get a pre-up and things like that? No, no, no, y'all just work on getting that debt paid off You got 80 coming in she's got money coming in y'all reach over and get that debt paid off you know you don't want to listen if you're 68 and you live to 88 that's the next 20 years you know student loan hanging over your head nah if you're going to get married clean it up you know it's not 800 000 it's just a handful of money you can do this you can do this no we don't need a pre-nup for something that's small if you got to you know if it's you've got

eight million dollars or something you may want to pre-nup but you don't so um now i i think you guys talk about it a lot about what you're going to do maybe even get some pre-marriage counseling which sounds a little weird when you're 68 but do it anyway and yeah and get on the same page be aligned about what the plan is and what the expectations are but i'd be combining everything if you're going to combine your life combine your life this is the ramsie show Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Wins Credit Union Studios. Ken Coleman-Ramsey, personality, number one bestselling author, is my co-host today. Barbara's with us in Wyoming.

Hey, Barbara, how are you? I'm good, thank you. Good. How can I help? So I'm retired. I'm 66 years old. I have a federal pension and Social Security a little bit more than $60,000. dollars. I'm on baby step two. The last two debts I have are federal taxes and state of New York

taxes. I've been working with a national tax preparation organization to, to settle these debts. They, I've already paid for, um, for paying the negotiating on your behalf for the federal debt is part of the whole package. But when it comes to state taxes, there's an extra charge. So my total debt to the state of New York is about $30,000. And that's with all the penalties and interest and everything. Um, they want, they, they want to charge me $6,500 to represent them, to represent me to the state of New York.

And they don't want to give me any, any information as to, success ratios. I've been trying to get some information to help with this decision and they've been stonewalling me. So I don't really know what to do at this point. You're very wise. Well, thank you.

You smell a rat, don't you? I do. They've done everything they were supposed to do. Federal's not settled, is it? No, no. No, not settled. So they haven't done everything they're supposed to do? Well, they've actually figured all the taxes.

They've done all the taxes. Oh, that was hard. Any tax prep idiot can do that. Well, it was complicated. I've done... Okay, so they figured out all the taxes. That's great. But they have not negotiated your federal tax liability down at all.

No. Not yet. Not yet. That's next up. Yeah. So after you do that, successfully, I'll think about the other. Well, except that I just, so I left New York a couple years ago.

So there's no more debt stacking up to New York. And so I just gave them all the paperwork to do the federal taxes. So we're not to the point of negotiating with on federal taxes. Okay. Well, I'm just going to wait until the federal taxes. Listen, I would not do it. They're not going to successfully do this. The vast majority of the tax settlement companies collect $5,000 to $15,000 and don't do anything.

They don't have the ability to do anything. On the federal level, there's only one way that your federal income taxes are reduced, and it's called an OIC, an offer in compromise, and they have to prove that you are completely broke and impoverished in order to get that through. I've seen a handful of those go through in 30 years, and I've seen thousands of 10 years. so that's on the federal level i've never tried it with new york but um they're very very difficult to do at the federal level and these companies are on cable tv uh former irs agents work for us and give us ten thousand dollars and we'll settle your debt don't bother us unless you've got at least fifty thousand dollars in debt and you know and it's a bunch of crap okay

because it just can't do it most of the time i am very suspicious that this is exactly the same thing. Oh, okay. Well, they've been pretty confident that they can do it. But you don't. Because they're stonewalling you. You know why they're stonewalling you and won't give you any answers? It's because they don't have any.

If they told you the actual percentage success that they had, you would laugh at them. Well, they said they saved people a billion dollars. Yeah. But they don't tell me how many people. I don't know what people win. And all that. You keep making your own case. We don't even have to answer this call if you just listen to that last sentence, you said.

You keep making a fabulous case as to why you shouldn't do this. Let me share something with you. These agencies have no more pull with the IRS or the New York State government than you do. I'm just telling you, good luck. Try calling the IRS today. I don't know what New York's rules are. I do know what the federal rules are on settling debt, okay? But if you want to find out, just go on ramsysolutions.com for free and click on our tax prep folks in New York and contact them and ask them if they can negotiate a $30,000 income tax bill that is delinquent, including penalties in New York, and ask them if they can do it or if they know someone that can and what they would charge.

And put that piece of data beside the piece of data that you've got, and you'll probably have a bit of a chuckle. My guess is, Dave, and I'm not suggesting she'd do this. But Barbara, I would relax on the New York thing. The chances of them... Oh, no, they'll hunt her down. They may. It's New York. They'll hunt her down.

I don't know. You have way more confidence. Well, I mean, she's in Wyoming. She's hard to find, but she'll hunt her down. But, yeah, eventually. I want her to deal with it. Oh, of course. I'm not panicked about it.

And a hundred percent chance I'm not going to pay $6,500 to whoever this mystery company that has saved billions of lives and fed starving children in Africa and all the other bull crap. Yeah, just bull crap. All right, all right. Up next is B and Phoenix. Hey, B, what's up?

Hi, Dave Ramsey. How are you? Better than I deserve. How can we help? Yes, so I just recently bought a house in Phoenix, which I'm really proud of. Good. However, my family's not very happy for me,

but that's a different scenario. So my dad is in debt. He's thinking about declaring a second bankruptcy. My family is asking me to possibly have him move in with me because he's pretty much borderline homeless. And you don't want to. Why didn't he move in with your son? Oh, he doesn't have a...

I'm the only girl. No, I'm sorry. Who was suggesting that he move in with you? Oh, my aunts. Oh, well, tell them to move, let them move in with them. They're making it my responsibility. No, it's not your responsibility. It's their responsibility.

It was their idea. You thought of it. You do it. I'll sign other people up for your charity work. Yeah, the thing is they only have a house of their own. I stayed I pretty much they have a rental and it's got a floor in the living room that's where dad sleeps it's their brother yeah they should take care of their brother instead of telling to get somebody else to do it you don't want to do this that's why you called I'm giving your permission to not do this

okay matter of fact I'm telling you not to do this why are people mad you bought a house oh my one my aunts she gilts with me said she wanted to combine fine masses with me and this is the one that wants you to let dad move in yes this woman has a lot of opinions about other people's stuff yeah she's a good person to love from a distance further distance than you've been loving her from I don't know why you give all these ants all this power yeah I just go you know it's like an ant hill oh my god running around everywhere getting bit by ants

it's awful ouch ouch you need a little more distance between you and crazy ants and tell the ants to let your dad go over there because you can't do it right now it doesn't work for you right now

it doesn't work for you right now Ramsey Show Question of the Day is sponsored by Why Refi. You can't change the past, but you can change your next move. Why Refi helps people with defaulted private student loans. You can refinance them to a payment that fits your budget. Visit yrefi.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter

y-re-f-y-com. Slice Ramsey, not in all states. Today's question comes from Gabriela in California. We didn't hear about the Ramsey show until after we purchased our first home. We went with a 30-year fixed-rate mortgage and a payment that's over 25% of our monthly pay. Should we pause investing and put that extra money on our mortgage so we can refinance to a 15-year fixed mortgage and lower our payment to the recommended amount? No. No, I wouldn't go through all that. What I would do is just make sure you're managing

your budget really, really carefully and begin to reduce your mortgage in your baby step six. So if you're out of debt, you have your emergency fund in place. You're working four, five, and six together. Four is 15% of your income going into retirement. Five is kids' college and six is reduce your mortgage until it's paid off. So when you get it reduced down a ways, if you want to restructure, if it becomes worth it. If you can get a lower interest rate, it might be worth it to refinance and take out maybe a 10 year or a 15. But that's years from now after you get it reduced.

In the meantime, know that your mortgage is too high. and so resist this justification my budget's tight so i take out a car payment don't go back in debt don't don't you know don't say don't blame your house because you made the decision if you cannot exist without taking out debt for other purchases because your house payment's too big then you sell the house and move down but i don't think that's the case here i think you can work through this i wouldn't have signed you up for it as you know but i think you can work through this and get there. I think it's possible. Yeah, there's no mention in this of other

debt, but if there is, obviously you're going to work our baby steps, and you're going to reduce expenses in other areas of your life, and look, if you've got to get a better job or work an extra job for a while, you have to make the margin that you've already eaten up. Exactly.

You've got to make sure you cover it. You can't let this bite you at the end of the day. Jeremy's in Cincinnati. Hey, Jeremy, how are you? I'm doing well, Well, I guess that's a whole truth. I wouldn't be calling you. So anyway, may God continue to bless you.

I really appreciate what you're doing for people. Thank you. It's very challenging to find a solid source of help. I have been struggling and dancing with bankruptcy for essentially seven years. Wow. Everything started. I'm not in it. I started the process post-divorce, but at the advice.

of the attorney. He's like, well, wait till this happens. Now wait till this happens. And essentially got in a position where I borrowed money from family and I wasn't going to run them through the ringer to go through a chapter 13 bankruptcy. Try to make this as quick as I can as your call screener requested. I'm essentially $120,000 in debt, $20,000 out of the car loan at a very high interest rate because of my credit score. There's roughly $4,000. in back taxes from 2021, a $13,000 parent-plus loan that I owe money on, and the rest is unsecured debt that I've accumulated either from back in the divorce

over the years of having three kids. How much of this is family, how much do you or your family? I don't owe my family anymore. I thought you said, okay. So what's the unsecured debt for $90,000? What is it, credit cards? Mostly credit cards and some loans. Yeah.

Okay, what do you make? I'm trying to get through. My current salary now is $141,000. That's good. My, I am currently being garnished for $100,000 from one credit card company and my spouse's support. My child support had expired just last year. And then the garnishments came in,

and my spouse's support is roughly $1,200, aside from other bills that I have. Before anything, I'm bringing home roughly at $5,000 a month. And I started back down the track on bankruptcy again, but again, I'm not a year out from having my family being pulled into that. And I don't want to do that to them. Referential treatment, yeah. I am. Okay, so the, let me ask you, you said $100,000. thousand dollars worth of garnishment what are you talking about um no no not a hundred thousand

dollars worth of garnishment i'm seeing a thousand dollars a month oh a thousand dollars a money garnished okay so you make 140 and there's taken out a thousand for that and they're taken out how much for child support 1200 that's spouse's support 1280 okay so that's $2,200 uh that that's less than 30 000 out of the 140 so that leaves you 90 not counting taxes How big is your tax refund? Oh, I don't get, I don't usually get any. Good, okay. And then so how much do you have coming out for 401K?

That is maxing out at 6%. Yeah, okay. All right, so here's what I'm going to do, Traylor. You're making a lot of money. It's just going back out the door. What do you think you're spending it on? All these payments. You got, oh, this car payment's outrageous.

It's $15. hundred, isn't it? My car payment is $438 a month, but it's a very long loan at a 13% interest rate. Okay. One of the other things that's in the mix here is I do have, I am one third owner of my mother's home from when she passed, and there's currently no settlement with my brothers and I on liquidating. at least my share. But you're not paying anything on that.

No, I'm not paying anything on that. You just, you might get some money out of it someday. Okay. All right. So here's what I'm doing. I'm still not finding 140,000. So I temporarily would stop your 401K.

I'm going to put you on a beans and rice budget. You don't eat out anymore. You don't go on vacation anymore. And you're going to make every dollar behave. But because 140 minus 2,200, minus 500 for a car payment, you still got a lot of money that is unexplained here. And I want you to go find it. I'm going to give you the every dollar premium budget,

which is going to guide you through this whole process. But more than anything, Jeremy, you've got to make every single dollar behave before the month begins and then execute on that with deathly efficiency. And, you know, you've kind of been, it feels like you've kind of been wallowing around in this for so long that you've kind of lost your footing and lost, You can't get a handhold.

You can't get a foothold. And so I want you to just back up three steps, take a deep breath, and dive into cold water and go, okay, fresh start. Clean eyes, clear eyes, fresh start. Now, look at the math only. Where the flip is $140,000 going, because you sure hadn't explained it to me in this. And I want you to go find that for your sake. You don't have to explain to me, but you need to go find it. Cut up the stupid credit cards.

Never touch one of those dad-gum things again. They're destroying your life. And then let's list your debts smallest to largest and begin to attack them in that order after you start paying minimum payments. But you can stop the 401K. You can put the Parent Plus loan on temporary hardship, and then you can turn around and start attacking these other debts

that you are paying monthly on, get them cleared up, and then come back to the Parent Plus loan and clean it up later. All of these things are getable. They're very doable. And whatever that one that's got the garnishment on, Get that thing. Get it done. Get it knocked out. And, man, I would just pump. I'd pop it that way as hard as I could hit it.

But the math here says you've got great hope. Your voice does not say that. Yeah, I would recommend that you even get a second job. Target $30,000 to $50,000. What would it take? How could you make an additional $30 to $50? Now, you got good income, but I think you need some intensity right now. We've heard enough debt-free screams that when we hear these people say we worked every second that we could. And we made so much money. I think right now you need a jump start of intensity. And I would have looked at to sell this car.

This $20,000 car's got a $400 plus payment to it. You need to go all in scorched earth, more income and beans and rice. That thing needs to be paid off for the next 12 months or you need to sell it. You need to get fired up here. so you clean up those credit cards you clean up that car loan you start cleaning up a bunch of and all you've got left is unsecured you can start plowing through this stuff like a snow plow baby you can start knocking them down just like dominoes it'll happen we've seen people do it all the time hang on we'll sign you up as our gift to the expanded version the new and improved every dollar

Megan is with us in St. Louis. Hey, Megan, how are you? Hey, Dave. I'm a fair to midwind today. How are you doing? About the same, other than I'm better than I deserve. How can I help? Well, I need help understanding or framing else.

How do I tell my mom I am starting to resent her after some financial choices that she's made? Okay. How old is your mom? She's 60. And how old are you? 32. Okay. So why does it affect you?

So she has been a successful medical professional in a physical therapy practice world. She had three clinics and was a single mom and supported me and my sister for the majority of our life. And as an adult, we've had mutual respect for our business decisions. And five years ago, she sold her clinics or her interest in them and her home to move in with her long-term fiancée. And she took those proceedings and made his dream happen of opening up a diner. And they did that at a somewhat opportune time where other diners were liquidating their equipment.

They were able to purchase that and it's been very successful over the last five years. However, as the diner got stronger, their relationship got weaker, and they broke off the engagement, and she moved out earlier this year. He then bought out her interest in the diner, but not directly, not in one month's home. He is paying in monthly installment, and her investment there was about half of her profits from the sale of the business and the home. And at this point, it's going to take another 15 years. to recoup that. So it's coming down to the point. Well, we've been in a family dynamic where we go on vacations together.

We plan holidays together, and she's made promises to me and my sister about being included on a home purchase and planning a wedding, and I seem to be engaged, and she promised that she'd like to be committed to that. And now I'm having those feelings that she had the finances to make her fiancé's dreams come true but now um where is that money for our dreams um when when uh you know she's saying that the money just isn't there yeah so you're not going to like me that's okay i'm if i need a kick in the pants go for it and i'm going to tell you right now i already second whatever his motion is about to be you're you're 32 years old okay you're you sound like an 18 year old

whining that your mommy didn't give you something your mom's a single mom grew something from nothing screwed up with a bad choice in men again and lost her money and you're whining about your wedding you're 32 go pay for your wedding and love your mother sure absolutely yeah just i mean i i i she she's a warrior princess she raised you girls from nothing she had nothing and she built this thing out of out of the dirt with her hands and then she lost it you should be heartbroken for her mad at the twerp with the diner not worried about yourself i have been i have been and i i um but you've been mad at him because he got your money the way you're acting um yeah we've we've been on vacations where i've you know covered the bill

i treated for her 60th birthday trip earlier this year and yeah um well you If you don't want to do that, that's fine. Or if you can't do that because you're saving for your own wedding, that's okay because she made these choices. You don't have to cover her travel bill. But on the other hand, I don't think she, you know, she's not obligated to pay for a 32-year-old woman's wedding as a single mom who lost her money to a bad relationship. Yeah, I think that's where I have to identify where those feelings came from. Yeah, I think if I were you, I would parse out the two things. Number one is, what are you required to do for her?

Nothing. She'll make it. She's okay. And, you know, let her go. Let her release her on what she was thinking she was going to be able to do for you, but now has messed up and is not able to. And so, yeah, any expectation that she gives you money should turn and not be there anymore and turn into gratitude for what she's already done for you.

Yeah, and on the question that way you worded it, how do I tell my mom I resent her that implies that you haven't said anything yet? And I think it's okay to communicate two emotions that I heard, that you're mad and that you're sad. And I think as an adult, you honor your mother, but you can have an honest conversation. I think it's probably important for you to get that off your chest. But in a way that is respectful and honoring and then move. on but you got to acknowledge that you're mad and you're sad uh but mainly though sad for her yeah

not mad because i didn't get something well it's okay for her to say i'm mad that she made this promise and she can't keep it we've got to move on you know what i mean like it's like it's like it's what 30 seconds that's what i'm saying but go ahead and deal with it because she's misplacing the way the question is framed i'm misplacing my emotions toward all towards my mom and and i just think that that's unhealthy this is a lady who did well for you so if you want her on vacation you set the terms in your mind you and you sis and you go this is what we're going to do for mom and we're not going to resent her

we're not going to be gripey about it and you just move on or we don't do it you don't do it at all don't have her on vacation I don't you know I'm not able to do this right now because I'm saving for my own wedding and that's a perfectly reasonable answer she did make her own bed in that sense

yeah but but but no I yeah mainly I'm going to be sad for her and deciding how much I'm willing to do to help her, my concern for myself needs to be close to zero in this. You're too old for that. That's exactly right.

That's my point. Yeah, I agree with you. Move on. That's, wow, just move on with it. And it's, and here's the thing. I think Dr. John were here, he would say, you're probably playing these tapes over and over like 42 times in your head every day. Yeah.

It'll be really good to get the tapes out of your head and just let them go somewhere else. Just let them go off into the sunset. it and just then just smile and go mom messed up and you know she did good for a while and then she messed up and that's just mom yeah you know that's right well to your point you can't be full of gratitude and full of anger at the same time so let's just be an adult and let's focus on what we're grateful for this woman did a lot for you yeah yeah against the odds by the way single mom three clinics I mean she's not a doofus she just doesn't pick men well fair yeah that's good yeah but yeah all right

Cynthia is in Toronto. Hi, Cynthia. How are you? Hi, I'm doing good. I'm honored to talk to you both today. You too. How can we help? Okay, so this is probably a silly question based on a few callers back, but I'm a new

listener and I thought I would still ask. So what does Gazelle intensity look like in Baby Step 2 when it comes to stinking funds? For example, I want to put $150 a month each to my car fund for repairs, a pet fund for like an older dog and vacation and gift funds, not to actually. take a vacation, but say, you know, if we go on a camping trip or something like that with a big family, it would equal to $600 a month or $7,200 a year, and it would be about $1,800 per category. So I just want to know what you guys think about that.

Okay. I only do the bare necessities when I'm in Baby Step 2 on, you know, we're going to sell intense Baby Step 2 working the debt snowball. So the sinking funds would reflect that. We're not going on vacation, period. We do not spend $7,000 a year on vacations, not while we're in Baby Step 2. No. Yes, we've got to keep our car repaired. So, yes, you need to have a monthly account, monthly line item in your budget that can build up. And yes, that can be called a sinking fund for car repairs because you do have to do car repairs while you're in there.

And if you have a dog that you're fairly sure is going to have some issues, then, yeah, that's an ongoing budgeting item that's going to happen and you're going to deal with it, no matter how intense you are. you're going to deal with the dog situation so you need something there but that's not $15,000 for a pet in the middle of this this is you know it's a few hundred dollars here there for some vet bills and so anything like that if you know your tires need to be replaced that's part of your car repair right but car replacement no we don't even worry about car replacement right now we're getting out of debt we'll worry about that after we get out of baby step three and so only the things that are necessary to operate the house bare minimum that fall into sinking, those are the only sinking funds we fund at that point.

Really good question, by the way. Brian's in Wisconsin. Hey, Brian, how are you? Better than I deserve. How are you to today? Just the same. How can I help? We're a caller, long-time listener.

My wife and I are, on Baby Step 6. We make about 425,000 a year. With the bulk of that coming from my employment, I work as a software engineer with consulting work on the side. We have a high savings rate, just over 200,000 a year. Wow. But my work my life bounce, it sucks, not existing. And it's taken a toll on my mental and physical health. I'm doing this because my wife and I, we plan to have kids soon, no kids right now. And I'm also worried that my skills might be obsolete in the next three to five years due to the advancements in artificial intelligence. My question is, is it possible to sort of be

too focused on savings and sort of delayed gratification? And should I shift my focus to maintaining my health and a decent work-life balance, even with the uncertainty of the future job market? Well, you already know that you should do that. Okay. You know that. And the way you phrase the question tells me that you know that. You just wanted someone to agree with you. And yes, I think you're very wise to observe to that. So here's what's happening. You are, we always talk about in every marriage, there's typically a nerd and a free spirit. I'm the nerd at my house, the detail person. My wife is the free spirit. My daughter, Rachel, is the free spirit. Her husband, Winston, is the

nerd. You're definitely the nerd at your house. And it shows up not only in your career field, but in your approach to this entire phone call even. Okay. So you're very detailed, very focused person. You like systems. You work systems. It made you a good living, by the way, which is wonderful, okay? And, but you've gotten completely over the edge into that world, and you've lost all

the other beautiful parts of life focusing only on the ones and zeros. And so, um, you're exactly right. You've, you're very self-aware. You're very wise to say, I need to back up. I need some art and some science in my life, not just science. And art is the romance of my wife, the beauty of some children that need to be on the way this week. Come on, dude, get some kids.

And, you know, it's the best thing overhappened to you. And no, by the way, you're not going to be unemployed because of AI. You're going to be the guy that tells AI what to do. Now, if you're writing lines of code, yeah, you may be not. writing lines of code anymore in four or five years. I don't doubt that. I got a feeling AI is going to be writing most of our code, and I'm fine with that. But somebody's got to tell the stupid thing how to do it, because it's artificial intelligence, by the way, like artificial sweetener. And so we're using, you know, I'm not in your world except that we have a lot of digital products

and a lot of digital people here. And a lot of our software engineers are convinced that they need to get above AI and boss it around as their new job description in the future, rather than than do what it's trying to do right now. And that's just my take on it as an entrepreneur, but I don't think you're going to be unemployed because I think you're already considering how you're going to pivot to take advantage of the new technology instead of it taking you out.

Yeah, Brian, two quick questions here to focus on this balance issue. How much of the 425 is your income? About 370. Okay, of the 370, you mentioned your job, and then I heard consulting, so break down the income, your income of the 370. How much is consulting outside of your 9 to 5? You know, it's split right down the middle. My 9 to 5 is half of it, and consulting is the other half.

Okay. How many hours is the consulting taking up in a week? About 20 hours a week on top of my 9 to 5, 40 hours a week. All right. So I just wanted to tactically start to break that down because Dave's right. I agree with everything he said. now we need to look at, okay, we've been in this scarcity mindset, you know, all this savings, so we need to dial back the 60 hours. So if you're looking at, you know, I hate to tell

anybody to take a step back in income, but the reality is you need to take a step back in hours. So we're looking at 60 hours a week, and that's what's causing the big part of your pain why you call today. So you've got to adjust that. That's where we go in and we tactically make some changes. But you've been doing, I can just tell by the way you're handling this. You've been doing technology a long time. This is not your first ride. Yeah, very true. Over 10 years experience. Exactly. And so you've navigated changes, disruptions before. This one's a little bit more of a tsunami than a minor disruption, but you're going to navigate this and you're going to be fine. There are people that are going to be taken out by it. If you think you're

going to, you know, be a dev one coder five years from now, you're not. Not people, those of you listening, okay? I don't think that's happening. There's not going to be much of that happening. But there's a lot of stuff we're not going to be doing. But that's okay. There's other things we can do with this technology. But you've got to have a brain that works the way your brain works to be able to make AI do what it's supposed to do. And so a brain that works, I can't make it do what you can make it do, in other words. Because my brain is not set up that way, and I don't have the knowledge base that you have. So I think you're going to be in a really good position. And that raises another question, Brian. Is the consulting work, the

exact same type of work in the 9 to 5, or is it slightly different? Same work, different fields. One is law, the other one is health care. I just wonder, as a part of this transition, as you begin to kind of scale back to you can start a family, get the stress out of your life, I wonder if the consulting is not eventually a business where you work for yourself and you kind of make yourself even more insulated from the threat of AI. Just something to think about.

I'm not putting you on the spot to answer that. but there's something to this there's a potential i'll say that there's a potential pivot if i were sitting with you in your living room walking through the next five years i'd want to look what is the future of the consulting business and how could you you know add to or full pivot so are you literally writing code right now i am working right now yes i mean no i mean that's not not the second i mean is this today your job description is you write lines of code no we're telling AI's what to do, which is kind of what made me call in, like, who knows what this thing is going to do in five years.

Yeah, but I mean, today you are, that's, okay, so you're, you're a senior engineer. Okay, I got you. All right, because you're killing it, income-wise. I'm so proud of you. Very well done. So you're very smart. You're a planner. You're a thinker.

You flowcharts stuff in your brain. You can't keep from doing it, including your own life. And so, yeah, so that's what we're doing. We're saying, we're agreeing with you. Yes, I would take a step back, not six steps back. And by the way, when you're at home with your family then, be at home. Turn off all screens, including television. Yes, sir.

Just relationship. So don't substitute Netflix binge watching for work and call that family life balance. It's not. And sometimes we can do that too. We just move from one of the other. Well, I was at home and she was sitting beside me. No, that doesn't count. Yeah, but you got caught up on Downton Abbey.

I don't think that's a plan, okay? So anyway, yeah, I think you're a great guy, and I think you're going to be a great dad and a great husband, and you already knew you were going to do this before you called. And then the question is, you know, you've got a really good nest egg already built. You've got the ability to earn a great income. And here's the thing I know about folks. Regardless of the field, once you have made X number of dollars,

your brain tells you it's possible and you will naturally gravitate back toward X number of dollars plus that's right once you've broken the threshold once you balanced on the bicycle the first time and your eyes light up and go I can actually do this then you have a tendency to be able to do it again

rather than a tendency to end up making 25,000 a year at Walmart that's right it's not what you're doing So you're going to gravitate towards a half million dollars a year the rest of your life or more. You're just going to have to change how you do it and how you add value to the organizations in the brave new world that we live in. But you're going to do it. I can tell you're that guy. And I employ a whole bunch of tech folks. So kind of know what I'm talking about.

I can tell when somebody's got that thing, that swagger that allows them to do it. And I think you do. I think you're going to be great at it. So yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Good question. Very good discussion. Thanks for calling in. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Wins Credit Union Studio. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author, is my co-host today.

Nazareth is with us in Houston. Hey, Nazareth, how are you? Hey, Dave, hey, Ken. honor to speak with you guys you too sure how can we help well um i wish i was calling to talk about my own more of my own financial situation um you know because i'm doing the baby steps getting out of debt right now um which is a lot of what i've heard you call the stupid tax because i'm 28 and i've made a lot of mistakes a lot of mistakes over over the years but I guess one of them has led me to moving back in with my parents, with my daughter, who's now four years old.

And anyways, I've been here. And when I first moved back in, like, I was still, like, being pretty irresponsible, like, just kind of floating through life. And I've really gotten my act together these past few months. And crazy things have happened to where my mom left my dad. about two months ago, and I took over all the bills and all that, but now I'm looking at my father basically owning about $10,000 on property taxes, and if it's not paid within a month, the house is going to go to auction. So I'm just juggling a lot right now, and it occurred to me, okay, well, maybe I can call the Ramsey show, and I got a hold of you guys.

Wow. So your parents' finances are a mess, and you have taken over them with two whole months of experience controlling yours? Yes, sir. Okay. What do you make a year? Right now, before taxes, I'm bringing in about $3,600 a month, sometimes a little bit more, sometimes a little less, but right around. Okay. And what does your mom make? uh well my mom uh she doesn't live here anymore she actually moved to another state oh i'm sorry your dad lives there yes sir oh and what does he make uh it varies but i'd say on uh on a good month he's making about three to four thousand and why have they not paid their taxes

it was just a lot of infidelity throughout their marriage you know on all levels including financial just never being on the same page about things so they don't have any money i guess you wouldn't have called me you would have just paid the taxes yeah okay yeah well um my father he he has about two thousand in his savings account give or take and um Um, yeah, but my mom definitely, uh, no savings like that. And you're in touch with her? You have the ability to get in touch with her? Yes.

Yes, I do. Okay. All right. And what's the house worth? I'm looking at this number here. Let's see. Uh, if I see this correctly, oh, wow. It says a judged value, $200.

115,000. Okay. What's that? What are you reading there? This is the notice of sale. Oh, that doesn't have anything to do with reality. What do you think the house is actually worth, dude? Um, I'm not sure.

Probably at, probably like around 150. Okay. All right. And what is an owed on it? Nothing. The house is paid off. Oh, okay. All right.

Wow. That's really sad. So I would tell you to go to ramsaysolutions.com and click on real estate, trusted real estate agent, get one of our trusted people, and tell them what's going on and see if they have any knowledge of property tax in Texas that I don't have. There's a possibility you could apply for some kind of a thing. Take your dad's $2,000 and maybe, you know, $2,000 a month for the next four months or whatever and clear the thing, right? There's a possibility they have some kind of a program for that.

Or there's a possibility they, you know, they give you these notices and then it's a while before they actually do it. It's not really 30 days. I don't, I want you to get more knowledge than just the threat in the mailbox. And I don't know. I don't have the knowledge. to give you just yes sir why did i spent like about two hours on the phone with uh these tax office people and because they were on payment plans um in the past it's pretty much said that house will go to auction january 6th if it's not paid in full and like i said i wish i was calling

Yeah, and you don't have the money and they don't have the money, so what's our option? There's two options. Neither one are good. Your dad can file a Chapter 13 bankruptcy, and that will stop the auction. Okay. And before I lost the house at auction, I would do that. But I really think that it might be a good idea for your dad just to sell the house. your dad and mom sell the house now get an investor call one of our Ramsey trusted real estate agents

and let's sell the house and pay the tax before the before the auction okay because they're going to lose this house and you guys don't have any money to stop them and so you know you can go into chapter 13 bankruptcy but all we're doing there is kicking the can down the road because your parents are going to screw that up I'm curious how many years of the property taxes what's a year's worth of property taxes on this house. Do you know? Well, it varies, but I think it goes all the way back to 2020 for about five years. Right. So here's the, this is kind of an outside the box idea here, but does your dad between all the stuff they have, do they have $6,000 or the stuff that you can sell quickly plus his two that gets you, or wait, wait, we got to get eight more. Sorry, my math was bad

for a second, 8,000. Does he have $8,000 worth of stuff? Yeah, I think so. And I have a... That's the quickest turnaround on this thing. I mean, to be honest with you, if he really has $8,000 worth of the stuff, and if I was... What's his car worth? I would do that. No, not really through his cars, but he's got a lot of... Because he's a welder, he's built fences, so he has a lot of material steel here. and um yeah get it sold yeah just got yes sir yeah just get it sold and get the money and go pay the tax that's it and but your dad's going to get off his dad gum butt or he's going to lose his

house and it's not fair that you have to do this for him this is supposed to be a grown man I mean this guy's what 60 years old yes sir 62 yeah so maybe he ought to act like it hello So, yeah, I don't really want you fixing this for him, but if he's got the assets, if he's got a bunch of junk around there, he can take salvage or whatever and sell it and scratch up 10 grand to go with his two, or eight grand to go with his two grand, give this thing paid. That's the answer. Other than that, yeah, you can file bankruptcy, but it's not going to work because it's going to crash. He's not, unless he gets, if he catches it up, that's his only shout at making this work. And your mom needs to sell her car and put some money in it, too. This time of year, I get a little confused about the terms.

It's Cyber Monday week. How do you have a Monday week? I'm so confused. How to Black Friday sales last for 10 days? This is still happening. Fridays are now 10 days and Mondays are now weeks. okay well but we're going to join the parade so the deals are in full swing at ramsie we got hardcover books audio books assessments all with prices as low as six dollars 99 cents don't

wait these deals end this coming sunday 127 go to ramsysolutions dot com slash store or if you're watching on youtube or podcast click the link in the description i need to make a confession dave our audience knows this when you're not here and i read these things i get a little upset i wonder if you've approved these things because these are really good deals i'm not sure i'm making much on these books and assessments did you approve of these deals i had nothing to do with these bills actually but but i always do don't i'm like man davis killing me on these books of mine are so cheap yeah prices as low as 699 that's hardcover books no less must be an overstock on something that's all i'm saying there it is folks i confessed it i confronted it we don't know how these deals got

there are good deals that's for sure brian's in dallas hey brian what's up hey dave how's it better than i deserve how can i help hey dave i'm closing on a property here soon in the next couple weeks and uh wanted to get your wisdom on a few things so first of all uh thanks for taking my call and uh just some contact for what i who i am i'm 27 uh making about a hundred $1,000 a year, and the properties that we're closing on, we have the means to put down for the down payment, which is great. But as I was crunching the numbers and looking at our savings, we were thinking about possibly taking out a 401k loan or withdrawal to help with a down payment.

Now, I know I've watched some of your videos and you've explained not to do that and things like that so just calling to get your input and get wisdom on creative ways we can put for the down payment you already have a down payment leave your 401k alone yeah yeah keep your hands off of it okay if you can't afford the house then tell them and see if you can get out of the house deal but um don't mess with stinking 401k like you said that's uh for obvious reasons uh your wealth is going to come from paying your house off and from building your 401k not from destroying it. And borrowing on your 401K is never a good idea, ever.

There's no circumstance. And withdrawing on a 401K, of course, you're going to get taxes and penalties and everything else. And so, and you're not even able to withdraw a 401k while you still work there. So, no, I would not ever use my retirement money to buy a house, ever. No, wouldn't do it. And I wouldn't do it to increase your down payment when you already have your down payment. Ryan is in Indianapolis. Hey, Ryan.

you. Good. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. What's up? Yeah, so my dad passed away a few months ago, and he set my mom up pretty well. He's a lifetime farmer, built a pretty good net worth, very conservative. And by the time, he has a trust set up, and by the time that all the ground and equipment, there's still room for about $1.5 million of cash that we could put towards the trust. And my mom is considering disclaiming that cash to go ahead and give it to myself and my two brothers. And I'm a little concerned about taking on that much cash. My brothers went through a divorce in his lifetime, and we want to do what we can to protect what my dad's built his whole life. And I want to pay off my house, and that's what my mom would like to see, you know,

me do with the cash that she'd give me. And my suggestion was to put it in the trust, leave it there, and I take a loan from the trust instead, and kind of pay back the loan or pay back the trust instead of the bank to keep it from becoming a marital asset right off the bat. So the million and a half would be yours? Well, it would be split between myself and my two brothers. So you would get a half a million dollars? Yes.

So you don't trust your wife with a half a million dollars? It's not that I don't trust her, but we've seen what money can do to, to families half million dollars is not that much money it's it's not but uh it can be spent very quickly wait a wait wait wait wait wait you paid off your house how you're going to spend it well well i'm saying that you know if if my um if i pay off my house i've got more income now coming in in from my um so be on a budget with your wife that's what's the way what's the What's wrong with your marriage, Ryan? It's very hard to control financially.

If we're not on a very strict budget and an allowance, essentially, it disappears. But wouldn't pay it off your house make it even more stable? No, more money to disappear at this point. Yeah, because he can't get along with his wife. Right. How long have you been married? six years I would not accept the money

until you get your marriage healed your marriage is a mess oh that's that's what you know no I don't want to create some kind of a faux backflip double limited partnership trust crap so you won't deal with your wife

No, I don't want to do that. You need to deal with your wife, and then get your marriage and your life straightened out, and then we'll talk about properly handling wealth. But there's no, there is no legal mechanism that makes people that aren't behaving behave. You're dreaming, Ryan. You can't have your cake and eat it too. You're going to have to deal with your home. Your home is a wreck.

when you deal with your home then it's a safe place to bring a lousy half million dollars into but your home isn't safe for a half million dollars right now so don't put a half million dollars in it in any shape or form until you get your marriage worked on

and quit trying to dream up some side angle crap to not have to deal with what's right in front of your dadgum nose you've got to deal with this and if you don't your marriage is going to end and there's no all this crap is going to get drug into a divorce court no matter how what you do and you know you're all your little schemes and crap aren't going to work so you can't control this you've got to heal it there's a difference now you're going to do what you're going to do

but i would not accept the half million until you finished marriage counseling that was successful in creating a healed grown-up relationship with my wife you don't trust your wife that's a bad place to live dude yeah yeah it's six years and and and to not have any kind of financial stability and trust you could feel it all over him so wow wow wow yeah i i like that advice yeah you and your mom and your brother are trying to connive something up here against your wife this is a bad medicine bad juju dude really bad well you know he mentioned his brother's divorce so he's feeling like snake bit too yeah because of his marriage. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, no kidding. Self-fulfilled prophecy, if you're not careful.

Yeah, but no, Mama needs to just, you know, the one needs to trust is your mother, maybe, but not you. No, you don't need that money or near your house right now because you've got other issues that are much more important, much higher priority than a lousy half million dollars are paying off your house. if you're working the baby steps the best and fastest way to work the ramsay plan is by using every dollar it's more than just our budgeting app it's the plan built right in you track your progress you get a personalized recommendation and coaching for your situation it'll help you free up more money work the plan even faster getting out of

of debt, building wealth. It's like having one of us walking with you every day, showing you the next right step and holding you accountable. We'll tell you the truth, because we love you. Start every dollar for free by downloading it in the app store or Google Play. On the Zoom call, coming up now is going to be Becky and Brian. Hey, guys, how are you? Good day.

Wonderful to have you guys. Where do you live? Madison, Wisconsin. Okay. Well, Merry Christmas. I'll see the Christmas tree in the background. You guys got it rocking. Good work.

Yeah. How can we help you guys today? Thanks for taking our call. Yeah. I'll let my wife take the question here. Hi, Dave. So I own a small business, a medical aesthetics practice here in our hometown. I'm a nurse practitioner.

And I've built my business debt-free. I have no debt here at the business. And I make pretty heavily purchases every month that I just pay off with my debit card, you know, $10,000, sometimes upwards at $20,000 for products. And so my question is in regards to getting a business credit card and the downfall of what that would be. I think we kind of live in the Ramsey mindset. We're debt-free. I only purchase things if I have the funds to purchase them. So that is, was my question, what the harm would be in getting a business credit card for points. Well, if you only purchase things if you have the money, then a debit card will work,

right? Correct. Okay. And so your only motivation is points? Well, I mean, yes. Well, I was thinking of if I have to purchase it anyway, should I be trying to get something in return because I have to to then have additional funds? Yeah. And so is your business working? Are you making money? Are you I am. Good. Good for you. Congratulations. Well, that's where you make your money in running your business well and in being who you are and providing the service that you provide. That's where all your profit comes from. That's where your prosperity will come from is in being you. I can tell you're probably really good at this. You can see it kind of in the camera right now. And so you are the secret sauce, not some side hustle gathering up points.

and so I've concentrated at Ramsey on helping people with their money or helping people with their leadership or the different things that we do here not in trying to gather up something on the side I just go do what we do with excellence and that's where all of our prosperity has come and because the points are a scam 78 percent of them are never redeemed that's crazy eight out of ten and and by the way if you spend $100,000 on this and you get one percent, that's $1,000. So there's no formula on planet Earth that says spending $100,000 to get $1,000 is a formula for wealth building.

That's a really, really, really silly trade. Your time and your brain calories are worth a lot more than you'll be spending chasing a couple of points here, there that are $500 or $1,000 here or there that you make back. You can make that in 20 seconds doing what you do, if you concentrate on that instead of the other things. But instead, they got you concentrating on their business model, which is to get you possibly into debt.

Because one month, things are a little tight, then you don't pay it off, and then there you are. That never happens with a debit card, though. So we don't have any credit cards at Ramsey, and we teach entree leaders small. We coach about 10,000 small businesses all over America to use debit cards and just don't bother with the points. Because I'm, that, that moment,

commentary flex where you change your brain from doing what it does so well to going over here and trying to beat up Citibank for a 1%. The tradeoff is not worth it. Your brain is worth more working on things that matter. Ken? Yeah. One of my vices, you two, confessing this, is late-night ice cream. It's a real problem. And I'm at the stage in life where late-night ice cream comes with a consequence. So you know what I do to avoid? late night ice cream you guys want to take a guess don't eat it i don't have ice cream in my house there's no ice cream in the house now i know i know what kind of a father are you the kids can go get it there's an ice cream shop in my neighborhood but you know it's a simple

little idea but you get the point and dave's right there is it's not just the one month it gets a little tight and we got a little security blanket it's also a temptation and if it's it's in the freezer, there's a good chance I'm going to walk by and grab it and get a bowl of it. And so you've just got to be very careful with. This is psychology. There is psychology and money, and Dave has figured it out. What I don't think people realize sometimes is how much psychology are in the baby steps, because he sat and he listened to people for years and years and years and develop something that is not just about momentum, but it's also about the psychology of money. And I think that we can't forget that the points seem to be a really.

real benefit, but what it's going to do is potentially trap you, just like those late-night calories for me. So that's my take. You guys are awesome. You're an incredible couple. You guys said that so much more nicely than we thought you were going to. Well, thank you for coming on. Hey, that was pretty risky.

You guys took a big risk jumping on here. So thank you for doing that. And, you know, the joke we always use is we've never met a millionaire, said I made all my money with my points. And so that's what it all comes down to. So, hey, thanks for joining us. That's Becky and Brian. Good job, you guys.

All right, fun. So we've integrated a few of these Zoom calls here or there because so many of you watch on YouTube and on video and Spotify and some of our other platforms are now carrying video as well. So we want to make sure we're kind of including all that in there. So something new. I've done talk radio for 35 years and now I get to do Zoom calls. Well, I will tell you selfishly, I don't know if you feel this way,

but I really enjoy, I've been able to do two or three of these now, and I enjoy it because we can see emotion, we can see things that sometimes we can't always hear. we've learned how to hear things, but if you have to be careful, though, I think I'm nicer on the Zoom calls. Oh, really? Yeah. I think I need to, I think I need to not, I don't need to fall for that. But it's about looking at their pretty cute little faces and I don't want to destroy it. Well, that, boy, that is an interesting take right there. Will you be tough, Dave, looking right at somebody? I gave him the right answer, but I wasn't, I wasn't snarky. No, you were very,

mean. You were very Christmassy. Sometimes, I was very Christmassy, yeah. Santa Dave is on the video. calls. By the way, quick question. I'm going to get you some ice cream, Ken Coleman at the break. By the way, that was the truth. That is a crazy thing right there. It's a truth. Well, everybody's got their advice. Whatever your food vice is, don't have it around house. You know, you know, one of our senior leaders here eats a thing of graders every night. You know how I'm talking about. I do. He has this whole ice, he has one freezer full of graders and he eats one little thing every night. If I could pull it off, I would. I love me. It affects your pickup ball of ice cream.

It affects the waistline, which then, it affects the waistline, which then, affects the pickleball game. No question. I got a question for you've been watching and analyzing coaching people for a long time. He's no longer on the call. But I thought Brian, I thought he was on our side of things. Oh, no kidding. It was pretty obvious. Oh, she was totally set up. Yeah. She knew she was set up too. But he just set right back and just let us handle it. Yeah. He'd already told her what we were going to say. And she knew what we were going to say to him. That was not a good. He's a smart guy though. Yeah. That's a pro move. That was a flex.

Yeah, just step back and step back and let someone else handle it. I was like, look at this guy. He's back there, no sweat. I'm going to let my wife ask this question. Yeah, yeah. Yes, she has the question. I think Brian got the answer he wanted. Good for him.

But to speak to that, Dave, on the real temptation for small businesses, how realistic what you said could have. These days we're hearing as much as 60% of small businesses have credit card debt related to the business. starting and or operating the business. That is mathematical suicide. You know, we know that, and I don't know if the stats true, but it's been around so long everybody believes that 80% of small businesses fail in the first five years.

It's an SBA stats, right, okay? And that's probably true, but it also includes businesses that never really started hardly. But of those we do know, and I do think this is true, the number one problem is cash flow. cash flow means they don't have any money it means because they have debt payments and they don't pay their taxes

and those are the things destroy cash flow and that runs you out of business so we do know that's true so stay away from that crap and run your business that's the idea our scripture of the day our scripture of the day

first peter 410 each of you should use whatever gift you have received to serve others. As faithful stewards of God's grace in its various forms, H. Jackson Brown said, Talent without discipline is like an octopus on roller skates. Plenty of movement, but you never know if it's going to be forward, backward or sideways. That's some real depth right there.

Every hiring manager should read that quote. That's the truth. You know, H. Jackson Brown did a book 30 years ago called Life's Little Instruction Book. Yes, classic. That's what this comes from, I'm sure. And it was notes to his son, one-liners like this, to his son. And it became a huge bestseller. And I met him back in those days.

I was just starting. The first book had just come out. I didn't know that. I'm very jealous of that. He's from Nashville. Is that right? Yeah, he's from here. A octopus on roller skates.

That's pretty cool. It's good movement, yeah. Morgan is with us in Tampa, Florida. Hey, Morgan, how are you? I'm doing better than I deserve, Dave. How are you? Just the same. How can we help?

I was hoping to get some insight on whether my husband and I can upgrade our hunk of junk of a car, even though we're temporarily down to one income. So I can fill in some details for you. Do you have the cash to do it? Yes. So we're in babysat four, five, and sit. we've got about $60,000 in cash. That includes $20,000 for the emergency fund and $10,000 for a business that I'm hoping to get off the ground after I sit for and hopefully pass the bar in Florida.

Good. Good for you. So we're looking to spend somewhere between 10 and 20, hopefully a little closer to 20, but I just feel a little weird about kind of rating the war chest while we're kind of a little bit of a crisis right now. I mean, can you cover your bills with one income? Yes, so we can. So you're not in a crisis. You're just not in a time of prosperity. Yeah, I guess that's more accurate.

It just feels a little weird to kind of read the war chest. Well, it's not really a war chest. The war chest is labeled emergency fund. It's 20. The war chest is labeled 10 for starting a business, and you're not touching either one of those. Okay. So I think you're using the wrong term. Yeah, and that means you got 30.

And that means you got 30 more, and you know what? Go for it. You've got access savings. Get a $10,000 car. And then when things get a little bit more stable, you can always sell that. What's the hunk of junk worth if you sold it? I don't think it's really worth much. I think the blue book on it is like $2,500.

Okay. So $2,500. A $2,500, and you put $12 with it, and you get a $15,000 car. Okay. It sounds more straightforward. I guess it just feels like a very emotional decision. Well, it is. Well, because you draw security from the savings, and that's why you call it a war chest.

Mm-hmm. You get security from looking at those numbers, more than you do from looking at that hunk of junk upgraded. That's probably true. It's cost us like $2,500 this year, and now we need another $2,500 repair. Nah. I don't spend $2,500 on $2,500 car. Don't do that. Okay.

I guess that makes it an easy decision. Yeah, just sell it as is, and let's move up. You don't have to move. You don't have to move up all of it. We're not going to buy in a $65,000 car hoping you pass the bar. That's not what we're talking about. Okay, we're doing, I mean, this is very, very reasonable what you've described, and you're paying cash.

And you're probably not going to drive the car that you buy, but about a year. Okay. Because it sounds like you're going to start your own practice once you pass, right? What I hope. Yeah, I'm practiced in, I'm licensed in Pennsylvania, but we recently moved. So, fitting for the Pennsylvania or putting for the Florida bar, hopefully we'll pass. So it's not reciprocal?

No, not in Florida. Florida is very protective of their attorney, unfortunately. Very interesting. Okay. All right. And so you have an existing practice back in Pennsylvania? So I left my job with the federal government. I work in a really niche area of law and veterans benefits.

So right now I just kind of want to focus on the bar and then hopefully that's up and what type of practice are you opening? I want to keep it the same. So veterans benefits. mostly disability veterans law is what I'm hoping to do. I did that for about three years. Okay. Back in EPA.

That's interesting. Okay, cool. Good for you. What's the time? The good news is you're probably going to ramp it up pretty quick. That's why I was asking all the questions. That's exactly what I was about to ask. That's why I was asking.

Realistically, how long, if you pass the bar before you're up and running and making money. I mean, so the outlook on that can be anywhere. Cases can take anywhere between like seven months to a year, and that's kind of what the $10 is for. That can kind of cover my base operating account. expenses for a year. So we'll have an office or anything like that. So we'll cover, like, the legal research and all those kind of ancillary costs.

But, again, you guys are already covered all your basics with your other income. Yeah. I think it's really just wanted that stamp of approval. I feel a little bit of peace about it. Yeah, I appreciate it. I love that. Yeah, but I guess our other point, the reason we're asking all that questions is that the practice getting up and running is yet further insurance in addition to the savings numbers that this

is a wise decision. Okay. That's why we're asking all the questions. So you got a one-two punch, you get wise and wise. You know, because if you told me, oh,

it might be five years and this might fail and I've never done it before and I don't know what I'm doing, and we may never get my income back. And ask yourself this, what are the chances this $2,500 hoopty blows up in the next 30 days? I'd say pretty high.

At which point you've got to get a car. Yeah. So let's, yeah, let's do it. Remington is in Memphis. Hey, Remington? Remington.

Hey, Dave, Harry. Great. How can we help? Oh, it's kind of plan future stuff. We're looking at building a house next to my parents and sister and then also my brother, so having a little family compound area. I'm trying to figure out if you recommend doing like a only doing cash flow for the money or 15-year mortgage.

we don't have the, you know, the funds to cash flow right now. But then we also have an offer from my dad to help cash flow up front and then, you know, to avoid red tape from the bank and then switch over to a mortgage and that one I would stay away from. I would just get a construction loan and build it and put it on a 15-year fixed to the degree that you can't cash flow it yourself. And, of course, you've got to make sure this is on a separate plot. If you build a home on someone else's land, you're screwed.

Yeah, it's our land. No, it's not our land. Well, my wife and I. Oh, you have a, they've parceled it out. It has a property line and everything inside that property line is only owned by you, not your dad. Correct. He recently split it into three, me and two of my siblings. So we own it all now.

Um, when we're looking at house and if something happened to you and your wife were widowed and she wanted to sell it, she can do that. Right. Okay. She might not want to live there. Okay. You might not want to live there 10 years from now. Everybody got that emotionally figured out?

Yeah. I mean, we, we're nearby right now. So we're able to set those boundaries and stuff now. Okay. Okay. You got a separate parcel, but that doesn't mean that somebody's not, well, Dad said we could never sell it. He gave it to us, but said with the stipulation, we could never sell it. And now, then you're screwed. We don't want to get, I don't want to get, I do not want to get trapped. Some blessings are a trap. And those are called curses. So, no, don't be just make sure that there's lots of movement here, lots of, lots of places and things that can be done. If our lives change and shift, then nobody's going to be permanently pissed off for the next 42 years over. one little piece of dirt and that's what happens so be real careful with that part and you pay your own way without your dad and then you'll be in good shape so good question i just have to believe though push back on this one that family compounds come with the expectations that we're all

there for yeah that's the problem that's what i would that's the problem eish it's very very difficult to have you know reasonable lives and then who wants to to buy house? You're in the real estate world. Who wants to buy one house, a one-off, in a family compound? Yeah. Okay. It's a problem. It's a problem. People don't think these things through. That puts us our of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace. Christ Jesus. Thank you.