The Ramsey Show - App - My Daughter's Boyfriend Moved In With Her in a House That We Own (Hour 2)

Episode Date: April 29, 2021

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today, as we take your questions about your life and your money. Dr. Deloney does the Dr. John Deloney Show, which is an ever-popular podcast about mental health issues of all kinds, relationship issues, boundary issues, depression, anything like that. Anything you want to fall into in that category, you can jump in today.

He's here to help you here as well as at that show. If you want to be a part of that show, all you have to do is also you can email him at askjohn at ramsaysolutions.com. Askjohn at ramsaysolutions.com. The phone number here, 888-825-5225. Also, in the next week or two, we're going to be doing an Entree Leadership Theme Hour, which means we're going to be taking calls from those of you about business, about leadership, starting a business, running a business, any business questions. Our Entree Leadership team and I, I love working with small business folks

and helping them get things moving at a different level at a faster speed than they ever have before. And if you have an Entree Leadership question and you want to be part of that hour, just email me at DaveOnAir at RamseySolutions.com. DaveOnAir at RamseySolutions.com. Kelly will get in touch with you and make you a part of that upcoming show. Jeff starts off this hour in Youngstown, Ohio. Hi, Jeff. How are you? Kelly will get in touch with you and make you a part of that upcoming show. Jeff starts off this hour in Youngstown, Ohio. Hi, Jeff. How are you?

I'm doing well. How are you? Better than I deserve. How can I help? Yes. Our families all fall upon difficult medical problems. And my mother-in-law passed away two years ago. And we tried moving my father-in-law in with us but he's developed dementia and can't stay with us and we aren't sure like how to set

up a trust for his grandchildren to protect his assets um so medicare and medicaid can help assist pay for his stay at the nursing, or if that's even ethical. It's not only unethical, it's illegal. Illegal, yeah. So it's called welfare fraud. And so when you sign up for government assistance based on being poor and you're not poor because you hid the assets, yeah, that's unethical. And the federal government has the ability to look back five years and undo any trusts or anything you've done to move assets out of his name to quote protect him from medicare so here's the thing if he goes to a restaurant and buys dinner he expects

to pay for it and when he goes to the nursing home, he should expect to pay for it. Okay. That's why I wasn't sure. He worked his whole life, and then just in a matter of years, everything will be gone. Yeah. Two years, everything he'd worked for his entire life is gone, and there's nothing. Yeah, but nobody did anything to him. Nobody stole from him or anything like that.

He's spending his life savings on his care that gets to sell his house to pay for his care for his care well he doesn't need his house anymore he's spending his money on his care to take care of him now here's uh how how much how much in assets do you think he has? After he sold his home and sold his vehicle, sold everything, about $250,000. Okay. And how old is he? 74. And how bad is the dementia?

It goes in waves. It'll go two or three weeks, he'll be really good, and then there'll be weeks where it's really bad. There'll be people chasing him and so on. How long has he been struggling with this? About a year to a half year. Since his wife passed two years ago, it's really progressed rapidly. Yeah. Okay. I'm so sorry you guys are facing this.

It's a hard thing to go through. Okay. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. sorry you guys are facing this it's a hard thing to go through okay yeah but um thank you yeah so you guys go shopping for a nursing home and let's let's just let's look at some numbers for a second i'll actually pull out i've got some statistics here on my desk on this uh on average Okay. So the average nursing home stay is, let me see here. Where did it go? Where did it go?

70% of claims are for in-home care. 12% are for assisted living. 15% for nursing home. Now, two things I want you to check on. One is I want you to start pricing out some in-home care. Has he already sold the house? Yes. Oh, it's already gone.

Okay, so he's going into a nursing home. Okay, cool. He's already in one, but we're trying to see how to, what we can do best for him and protect his assets for his grandchildren. With what you've told me, I am going to project that he's going to have about an average stay. Yes. The average stay nationally is 2.4 years. Okay. It's heartbreaking to turn your loving,000 a year, he's only used up half of his assets.

His is $8,500 a month, so his is going to be... That's ridiculous. That's really expensive. It is. You need to get a different nursing home. Okay. Look at the other ones. Yeah, that's double yeah well that's what i was his assets

so he stays three years everything's gone yeah yeah two hundred forty thousand dollars yeah the average nursing home stay in america is fifty thousand that's the average okay means there's a lot i mean some are cheaper yeah Yeah. And yours is double. And I had a relative who was put on hospice and lived three years. And so, yeah, it's a very real possibility. In three years, he's not doing well, but he's still alive. And, yeah, y'all are out of money. That's way too expensive, man.

Yeah. Okay. And so the problem is it's so harmful when you're watching someone that you love that, you know, especially when you're talking about dementia and so forth, it's just it's heartbreaking. And then you reduce the conversation to a math formula, and that's just really tough. But the truth is it helps me if I'm in that situation to reduce it to a math formula because i don't have the panic of running out of money right and so i'm really glad you called uh and because the main thing you've discovered is he's probably not going to run out of money but you need to move him okay and you've got to do a psychological 180 here, brother. This money is not, quote, unquote, your grandkids or your children's assets.

This is the money that is going to get him through the last stages of his life. And I'm super grateful that he was in a position to be able to help pay for that. The nursing home is not stealing. They're serving. Correct. And it stinks. Correct. You did sign up for the freaking Rich Carlton. The freaking Rich Carlton, but you're not...

But they're not stealing from you. They're just serving. That's his money. Take care of him. Otherwise, y'all would have been paying for it. That's the mind shift. That's the mindset shift you're talking about that is necessary. And so, folks, you don't quit your job so you can get unemployment, and you don't hide your assets so you can get welfare and nursing home. And you don't spend your parents' money before they're done using it.

Right. Because then you've got to walk it back, and it feels like a loss. Yeah. Right. That's a good idea, too. This is The Ramsey Show. In an uncertain world, being a good steward of your money is more important than ever. While some circumstances can't be controlled, there are items within your budget you can take charge of, such as your

health care costs. For nearly 40 years, Christian Health Care Ministries, or CHM, has provided a budget-friendly means of sharing for medical bills when our members need it. Learn more by visiting chministries.org slash budget. That's chministries.org slash budget. So, taxes. Well, these days there's pretty much two ways to do your taxes. You either do them online by yourself or you pay a pro. And we're thrilled to offer Ramsey Smart Tax as a way to do them online this year. Very inexpensively, very quickly, very easily.

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David is in San Diego. Hi, David. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Thank you, Mr. Ramsey. Appreciate you taking my call. My pleasure. How can I help? Well, here's my situation.

I'm retired. I own a piece of real estate that I live in, and I own a condo that is a rental. Both are paid off. I'm thinking of leaving California for another state, and I'm wondering whether I should rent these properties out or sell them and take a very substantial capital gains hit. The one you live in, is are you married yes are you making up to a half a million dollars profit on it no taxes at all and there's no capital and then there's capital

gains on the rest of it so how much how much of a gain have you got on the residence well after you take the 500 000 out the gain would probably be about $1.5. Okay. And then I've got a condo that's fully depreciated. That's probably $1.2. Okay. The condo you can do a 1031 tax deferred on and buy rental property in the other market and roll that capital gain into that property.

Your personal residence, you can't. Yeah, I'm not sure I want to continue being a landlord, though. Oh, okay. Then why would you be a landlord in California when you're out of state? Just because you hate the taxes. I just don't want to pay the tax. Yeah, I didn't cash it all out. The tax is going to be almost $700,000.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'm out of there, though. I would not long-distance landlord. And I certainly wouldn't long-distance landlord that residence. That's a ridiculous rental property. It's too high. It's not a good rental house. It's too big.

Well, it's in Coronado, and I could probably rent it for five grand a month. Which is a horrible rate of return on that much money. Well, yeah, on $2 million, yeah. Yeah, that's awful. Yeah. But it's almost the principle of the thing. You just don't want to give that much money to the state of California. Well, and the feds.

I mean, you're getting hammered on taxes. If you don't want a landlord, you're going to write the check for all the taxes. If you will landlord on a little bit of it, you can roll the condo into a 1031 where you're moving. I would not keep the properties, no. taxes i hate taxes so bad i can't breathe i hate taxes they take some dadgum much of my money every time i sit down to do this with my guys at this time of the year i just i spend about a day mad it's just ridiculous i hate them i'm with you i get it but that's not going to force me to make a bad decision for my life i'm just going to go well you know they're just screwing me again thank you washington dc you bunch of parasites you're a tick on the butt of america and you know i just have to

just tip my hat to them they got me again and i'm out of here because you know that's what i would do if i were if i woke up in your shoes i'd be selling all of it and out of there if you're out of there. I'm not staying there. I'm not keeping rental property long distance. And I'm not going to keep a property that really shouldn't be a rental property with a horrible rate of return, i.e. your house, just because I'm pissed about taxes. Just write the check, dude, and move on. If it's time to go, it's time to go. And it sounds like it's time to go.

Susan's with us in Lexington. Hi, Susan. How are you? I'm well. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? So our daughter got married and things didn't work out.

And so she was three hours away. She got a job only making about $40,000. And things didn't work out. And so she was three hours away. She got a job only making about $40,000. We wanted her and our daughter close so that we could help out while she was at work. So we bought a house for her to live in close to us. We told her that the rent, she would still have to pay rent, but the rent would be manageable for her. Well, then she found a love interest and she, despite our beliefs, she had the love interest move into the house. Um, and we told her, this is not part of the deal. if he's going to live here because she is 28 this is against our beliefs we don't agree with it your rent is no longer subsidized so we are raising your rent to a

thousand dollars a month you're nicer than me you're nicer than me i would have moved her out um well the house was bought in august yes, I could have gotten fair market value. So now talking to the tax accountant and with this man living there that's making significantly more than her, I'm going to say $100,000 a year. How do I approach this with explaining to her, she already knows that it's against our beliefs

and that we don't agree with this but she can definitely afford more than $1,000 a month. It's not about the money. This is not a math problem. This is not about the money.

You're the landlord and this is a values issue. You take her out to breakfast and you say, here's the deal. This is what it's going to be. You've got 30 days and this is what's going to happen. Do I worry about the relationship of our granddaughter when she turns around and says... You set the boundary and your daughter ran up against that boundary.

You can't hold... She crossed it. You can't hold somebody else's response to your boundaries. If she chooses to poison the well of that relationship, that's a choice she's going to make. But you're doing what you feel is best within your values. So here's the thing. Okay. Okay.

You strongly believe, and I do too too that what she's doing is wrong she knows correct that you believe that and and the reason you believe it's wrong is you don't believe it's good for her it's not i don't think she's recovered from her it's exactly you don't think it's good for her it's a good example for the child. Amen and amen. Amen and amen. And so all of those reasons have nothing to do with you being selfish. These are all you loving her. Right? Okay.

Yes. Your concern is for her. It's not like you have not been violated other than the fact that she just thumbed her nose at her upbringing, but you have not been violated. You're just trying to say, I don't believe in this because I don't think it's good for people, and you're one of the people that I don't think it's good for. And here's what happened and you cannot you cannot have your uh your values and what you believe about something harming someone held hostage by the chance to see your grandkid

you're being blackmailed and i don't even know if you're there yet i feel like you're anticipating blackmail is that fair? I believe so. I believe that she could say, well, you know, I can move further away. You can do a lot of things. Here's where it hurts. When you think you've done everything right, you've tried to help. In fact, you have helped. It feels unnatural

when someone turns around and bites that hand. Yep. And it hurts. Because it is unnatural. It hurts. It's wrong. But you still have to do lovingly, kindly, with no mother voice, just a smile and just say, honey, I love you, but you know I don't go along

with this, and so you guys have 30 days to move out. Here's where we are. Because we can't endorse this style of life. Your values are your values are your values, period. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Anna's in New York City. Hi, Anna. How are you? Hi, I'm doing well.

Thank you, Dave. Good. So my question is that I'm a public school teacher in New York City, and we're offered something called a TDA, a tax-deferred annuity. Should I contribute to this teacher retirement fund even though it generates only a six to seven percent simple interest? Yeah, no. Okay. Simple interest is fine. That's standard compounding interest, but you can do better than seven percent and you can do better than a teacher's annuity. If you have the option, it's not mandatory, right? No, no, it's not mandatory.

Yeah, you need to step outside of that and do Roth IRAs. Are you married? Yes. Okay, do a Roth IRA for you, Roth IRA for your husband. Is your husband working and does he have a 401k available? Yes, he does. Okay, let's get our baby step four. We call it 15% of your income going into retirement, between those three things, his 401K and two Roths, because you can get it into good growth stock mutual funds and make at least 50% more on it than you would make there. Oh, absolutely. And it's just got a lot more flexibility. The problem with most teacher retirement packages are that it's government-affiliated, obviously. And what happened was the insurance people got very involved in the early days in the 403B systems.

403Bs, you see them in nonprofits, in hospitals, and with teachers and government, right? And when the insurance people got involved, they put in annuities which, like you found, don't have a good rate of return and or are stacked high in fees. And so it's a substandard product compared to what your husband has, say, over as a 401K at his work. I did not know that. So that means if the insurance is involved and it's only getting a 6% rate. Not necessarily. But, I mean, the insurance company, an annuity is an insurance product.

Right. Okay. It's a savings account with an insurance company, and it's just stacked high in fees. She's in a fixed annuity, which is a horrible product. And then you can also get into a variable annuity, which has a series of growth stock mutual funds in it. So it starts to look pretty similar then if you can select. However, you're just going to run into much higher fees.

And so you can just, I mean, 99 times out of 100, 95 times out of 100, if I'm working with a teacher, they're better off doing it somewhere than at the school system. There's just very few of them are high-quality retirement plans like you'll find in corporate America or like you can get on your own with a Roth IRA with a SmartVestor Pro, that kind of thing. Suzanne's in Syracuse, New York. Hey, Suzanne, how are you? I'm very good, thank you. Thanks for taking my call.

Sure, what's up? I recently, well, I recently, I got remarried about a year and a half ago. And so we sold my house and I live in, we live in his house. I cleared $132,000 on the house and I wanted to know what I should actually do with that money. Okay. Remarried, so you went through a divorce? Oh, yeah, like 30 years ago. Oh, a long time ago.

Okay, good. Oh, it's been like 22 years I was divorced, yeah. Okay, all right. And are you all combining your finances? No, we keep our finances separate. Okay. My husband does not have good credit. Okay, all right. And how old are you two? Okay. My husband does not have good credit. Mm-hmm. Okay.

All right. And how old are you two? I'm 58 and he's 65. Okay. All right. I think it's fine for you to do, you don't have any debt, I take it? Just the house. Okay.

His house. His house, yes. Yeah. So if you're not going to combine your finances, then this money is invested in your name for you in mutual funds. I'm going to challenge that over time. It's a brand-new marriage. I don't have to challenge it today.

You've lived your lives as single individuals for a long time, so emotionally the collision of your emotions to combine your finances just opens up a lot of stuff inside your brain, I'm sure. But I do want to tell you that very few people succeed financially when they don't combine their finances. But you don't have to do it today, but I want you to, over time, soften on this and be willing to reach over and pay off his house, our house, because it needs to become our house, because it needs to stay in the will. You keep it if he dies, not his kids.

Yes, and I already contribute. I pay part of the mortgage every month. Well, that's just like having a roommate, see? And so there's a spiritual advantage, a financial advantage, a relational advantage to long-term beginning to, you know, for this not to be his house, it's our house because you're in the will. And there's a spiritual advantage for you guys to be operating together. What's the hesitancy?

He has very big credit. People would take the money. Creditors would come and take the money. He's got judgments against him? Yes. How many? I don't know. And he has terrible credit, so we would never put our money to him.

People don't take money because of bad credit. They take money because of lawsuits on defaulted debts. Well, then he has defaulted debts. How many? And you need to know. Yeah, how much? I don't know. Yeah.

Yeah, you need to figure that number out because it's... It's like he has cancer, but I don't know how bad it is. Yeah, it's this looming shadow of your relationship. And so what's going to happen or what is happening is y'all are coming up with alternative ways to go out to eat, to use Dave's cancer analogy, but you don't even know what the problem is or how bad it is. Right.

And so what happens is you start taking a little bit of a step here and a little bit of a step to the left and to the left, and all of a sudden you wake up and you're a mile apart from each other. And you didn't mean to. You didn't do it on purpose. You love each other, but you are not on separate same roads, and you don't even know what the cancer is. I'd pull a credit report so there's two things on the practical level i would get a full list of everything and you all start working a plan you don't have to put your money towards it

today but you need to start working a plan and know what the flip's going on in his life he's your husband and uh it goes with the pet's territory uh you're not your roommate and uh it goes with the pet territory uh you're not your roommate and uh you cannot you can't it's not this is not a healthy relationship the way you're going into it's what john's saying now the second part of this is when you say he's got bad credit three times you've said that i also think i heard you saying i think think he's irresponsible. That's right. He's never been very good with money, so he's never saved money. He has no retirement. Do you think he's irresponsible?

He pays his bills when he can. Do you think he's irresponsible? I think he was in the past, yes. Okay. If he's responsible now, he's a guy that has a mess left over from the time when he was irresponsible, and it's a good thing he's got you in his life and the two of you can work together to clean up his mess from his former irresponsibility. But if you can't trust him going forward because he's irresponsible, we've got a wholeher barrel of fish hooks here right because it sounds like he's not quite being honest about what he owes or a situation and he's got a lot of shame about it and it sounds like you're not being honest about how much you kind of have to hedge your bets against him because he's not trustworthy and that is a

recipe for this thing to end up in ash that's why i asked you how long you've been divorced and because if it had been five years and the guy before was uh horrible with money and irresponsible it's easy to transfer the former uh the former husband ex-husband's crap onto the new husband and uh whether it be right or not and so so, yeah, I think you guys need to work on you having a belief that he's going to be a good, responsible, wise man going forward. And then based on that, we're going to work through cleaning up his mess together. And even down to the end of the story being that, yeah, your $132,000 eventually rolls up into this and pays off that house,

but the house is in your name. I mean, you're in the will, and the house has your name on it as well if you're going to pay it off. You're going to combine your lives and your finances, and we're going to work together in a way that is responsible and wise. Y'all have got secrets in your home, and you can't build a new marriage on secrets. You can't sustain an old marriage on secrets. Y'all got to sit down and have a truth-telling session with each other relatively soon. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

John and I were talking at the break. John, I want to riff on that a little bit. There's a personal finance. We've sat around here for many years i figured it out a long time ago i was i'm a finance nerd i've got all the degrees and all the letters and licenses of crap after my name that says i'm supposed to know something about money and i couldn't get people to do it because if you just do the math the math works right if you do the stuff that causes the math to move the math moves a hundred percent of the time but the problem is do the math, the math works. Right. If you do the stuff that causes the math to move, the math moves 100% of the time. But the problem is not the math.

The problem is not the formula. The problem is not the process. The problem is you're injecting a human being into that process. And so we've often said personal finance is 80% behavior. It's 20% head knowledge. And with your arrival at Ramsey, we've even started to realize, I kind of had it in the back of my head, but it's been brought to the forefront in my mind even more.

This whole concept, I mean, with Ken Coleman's success in the career space, helping people with their careers, and how that's tied to money, and you helping them with their mental health and relationships, and how that's tied to money, and how money's tied tied to mental health and how money's tied to having a career. And the things are all interactive. There's this spin-up of all of the different things we talk about here at Ramsey. Even leadership from Entrez Leadership rolls into that discussion as well. Personal finance is 80% behavior because then you have to say behaviors are affected by good and bad by relationships. Yeah.

Historical ones, present-day ones, a lack of them, a desire for more or deeper. Yeah, it's all wound up in there. Disingenuous relationships, broken relationships, toxic relationships, wounded relationships, healthy relationships. And it's like we were talking the other day in Entree Leadership, all the studies and all the interviews we've done on family businesses. And what we found is that the family business is as dysfunctional as the family. A hundred percent of the time. If the family is pretty functional and does conflict well and has good boundaries, then they can do business together.

But families that are just crazier than hell trying to run a business together, they just create a dadgum chaotic mess because it's a chaotic mess already and they just plug business into it. And money is kind of the same way. When your life is chaos and there's addiction and boundary problems and your mother goes and buys a house, mother and dad go and buy a house for you to move into, and they are strong people of faith, strong Christians, and they don't believe in sleeping around with people you're not married to.

And you go move your boyfriend in, and you think that that's just okay. And you don't think this has any effect on money, as if money is somehow a separate subject from your freaking life. They've got it, so they owe it to me. Well, the whole thing is this idea that I can keep the money thing over here, and I can control it in a separate pocket, and I can go over here to the right and be dysfunctional in any way and not affect the money. Dave, I'll never forget driving home, and I think it was a radio station, and it was this breaking news these researchers had found.

They had gone back to the, I think it was the Holly Madison it the Holly Madison, whatever that website was for adult cheaters. Oh, yeah, yeah. Right? And so they had scanned it all out for all the fake stuff, and then they had gotten the ones that had credit cards. These were real accounts. And then they had gone looking for businesses where these folks were attached to them. And the shocking revelation of this sociological finding was that there were more ethical complaints in these businesses

where these leaders were cheaters on their spouses. The question was, or the revelation was, we have separated this in the business world. We don't care about anything but results. Just show up and give us results and we will shield what's going on outside of this building and they were saying we don't

know if we can do that anymore because there's a correlation if you're not a good person over here chances are you're not gonna be a good person in here they all work those of us with common sense go duh i remember sitting in my car going yeah you guys and you paid a lot of money for the study i could see that yeah but but it was was, man, that stuff, where you are, relationships, and how you treat people and money. Dave and John, how can I build wealth when my husband and I aren't on the same page, and he's being irresponsible with money, and I'm being responsible? You can't. It's as if you can keep the question intimates that you can keep these things separate.

Right. And there's a holistic part of this that your values and how functional you are in your life, your ability to do conflict, your ability to set boundaries, your ability to head into healthy relationships, not needs-based relationships, not I'm so lonely I could cry, so I'm going to go ahead and marry an abuser and then think the money's going to work out. It's all tied together. It's so hard, Dave, to look in the mirror and be on a stock of ourselves. And if we can't do that, which is hard, it's hard to invite people in and say, I need some honest reflection here. And that's what makes a great group of friends.

That's what makes a great pastor or therapist. That's what makes somebody good who will sit there and hold a mirror up to you and say, this is what I'm seeing. And you can say, I'm not okay, man. I don't know how to handle money. I'm not good in relationships. This whole thing is just a spiral. But you can't lock one in a closet and try to go solve the other problems but i can't i and i can't get out of my head the lady who bought the house for her daughter who brought the in the guy shacks up and then she just wants

to raise the rent yeah because as though it's a math problem not well she wanted to punish him yeah and like that's going to fix it she wanted to punish him and not have any relational consequence to it, right? As though I did all these right things, I have my strong values, and so I put the period at the end of that sentence, but I'm afraid this is going to happen. Yeah, it's going to happen. You put up a boundary, right? You took a stand, and stands cost you something.

And this is somewhat unrelated, but it's totally related. Dave, we live in a culture where the way we show our yeah is we just thumbs down the crap out of something, right? We click the thumbs up button to show. That is not taking a stand. Taking a stand is saying, here are my values. You violated them, and I'm willing to risk your temper tantrum over what you're going to do because what this is the right thing or in this case i've been uh this last caller i more than risk the temper tantrum it's almost anticipated i'm expecting it that's right

i'm going to anticipate because my values are my values or i've been so lonely for 20 years i just need someone to touch someone to look me in the eye at night someone to tell me that i'm valuable and so i'm going to get myself in a mess of a financial situation i'm going to sell my home expose myself to the fact that i may not even be in this guy's will his kids gonna take this house i'm gonna be 70 nothing he's he's irresponsible run up a bunch of bad debt but i don't even know how much i don't even know but i love him and i want this to this part of this to work you love the picture the idea that's not real that's right that's right so it goes back to what is that's a great analogy what is this actual true picture and dave it's hard for us to do it on ourselves that's why you gotta have people in your life to do it with you it's hard man so what we're what i what i wanted to cover

really in this segment as we riff through this is that you cannot separate the mathematics of personal finance and move them to the side and them operate properly when nothing else in your life is operating properly you know like 100 of addicts eventually are broke 100 because the addiction overtakes every element of their life including their money 100 they either start the recovery process or they go completely broke. They end up broke. You cannot stay addicted over a period of time and become wealthy. It's just impossible. You cannot make enough money. And there's no accident that how many times are we going to do a debt-free scream and they say,

By the way, we all lost weight. By the way, our marriage is so much better. I'm a better parent now. By the way, my career is so much better. I'm a better parent now. By the way, my career got better. Because I got honest and I got intentional. And I cleaned up the rough spots of those areas while I was working on this money stuff, and it all caused the money thing to win, too.

Right. The likelihood of you fixing your money stuff and not working out the details and the rough areas of the rest of your life is almost zero. That's what we're saying. Which makes it worth going in with both feet, man. Yeah, you've got to go all the way in when you're going in.

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