The Ramsey Show - App - My Debt Is Stressing Me Out (Hour 3)

Episode Date: January 16, 2024

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. The phone number is 888-825-5225. George Camel, Ramsey Personality YouTube Sensation, is my co-host. It is book launch day for us around here at Ramsey. George has a brand new book out called Breaking Free from Broke. It is available anywhere great books are sold, including RamseySolutions.com. Megan is with us.

Megan is in Indianapolis. Hi, Megan. Welcome to the Ramsey Showolutions.com. Megan is with us. Megan is in Indianapolis. Hi, Megan. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. How are you? Great. How can we help? I'm calling because I have just put myself in a terrible financial situation,

and I'm just really scared and stressed about my finances, and I don't really know where to start or how to go about tackling all of my debt. Okay. How much do you owe? So I have about $15,000 in credit cards. I have $32,000 in student loans. I have almost $9,000 in in personal debt and then I owe six thousand on back taxes, a small medical debt of about a thousand and then a vehicle for fourteen thousand. Okay. What do you make? Fifty. Okay. How old are you? Twenty- 29. Okay. And you're single? Yes. Okay. All right. Yeah,

that's a pretty scary situation. I don't blame you. What are you current on? All of it or right now or what? It's all current, but the monthly payment amount on everything is the majority of my income, it feels like. And so it just feels like I'm just paying the minimum, paying the minimum, and then, you know, nothing's going down and I don't have a ton of extra income to be throwing at it. So I just, what do you do? Um, so my family owns a wedding venue and so i run that full time okay all right how'd you get six thousand behind on your taxes um so i'm because i'm technically self-employed um i should have been setting more money aside you own the wedding venue?

Yes, part owner. Okay, so you guys don't do payroll and take taxes out? We do for the rest of our employees, our part-time employees that we have, but my financial person told me because i'm considered the owner i can't be on payroll bullcrap um that's what i need a new financial person yeah i bet i'm i've been on my own payroll for 25 27 years i mean yeah you definitely be on your own payroll for sure and you should be that's a good way to a good way to make sure you don't get behind on your taxes. All right.

Okay. What's the car worth? So I had my previous car paid off and two days after Christmas, just a couple weeks ago, totaled my car. So it's brand new. Like within this last week so i'm confused wait a minute you totaled your car but they gave you a check for that yeah so they gave me a six thousand dollar check yeah so why would you go in debt to buy a car when you're so broke you can't breathe um well i had a six thousand dollar car why don't you take six thousand dollars and go buy another six thousand dollar car yeah i considered that um and talked

to my parents about it and was worried because i have no savings that you were driving a six thousand dollar car before yeah now suddenly a six thousand dollar car is not okay i was just concerned that it would immediately after i got it have all sorts of issues and i wouldn't have the money to fix the six thousand dollar car you were driving didn't have all sorts of issues until you totaled it right so that's a dumb thing to think it's not not true. Especially as broke as you are, Megan. Oh my gosh. You can't keep digging a hole and then gripe about the hole. Is this car worth $20,000?

So I put the $6,000 towards the $20,000 car, so the mortgage is $14,000 then. Yeah, so the car, you just bought it for $20,000. The loan is $14,000. So if you sold the car for $20,000, you would get a check for is you just bought it for the loan is 14 yeah so if you sold the car for 20 you would get a check for six thousand dollars after paying the loan yeah let's do that let's go ahead and sell it that's going to help because you have 77 000 more payments when you can't afford the ones you've got right and then call me confused thinking you're bankrupt four weeks after you did that right right yeah you understand how inconsistent that is right

yeah okay think about this megan you could clear 20 of your total debt just by selling this car and driving a cheaper car 14 grand out of the 77 right that'll get you on your way right now making 50 let's do another job or two so uh how many hours a week are you working at the family business for 50 grand um it just it varies week by week right now we're kind of in a slow season um through march but then it'll really pick back up starting in the spring um through the end of the year all right so you So you called, I'm scared, and I'm stressed, and I've been there. I know how that feels. It's not fun, okay?

Yeah. Because I feel like I'm stuck. And the math tells me that you are stuck. Yeah. That all you're doing is paying minimum payments, and you feel like a rat in a wheel. Now, how are we going to break this log jam? How are we going to break this clogged drain and get it, you know, get flowing again, right?

Well, there's two things. We increase our income dramatically. And so if you keep doing exactly what you've been doing, you're going to keep getting exactly what you've been getting. So you're going, if you want out of this, you're going to have to do some radical things. And you can get out of it then okay but you're gonna have to work like a lot more than you're working and find a really strong paying side hustle that you go crazy for a short period of time and you need to sell this car and go buy a $6,000 car. Okay. And then you can clear up the taxes, and then you can clear up the stupid credit cards.

How long has it been since you used a credit card? Well, probably three months. Is that true? Yeah, I've been really trying not to use credit cards. Okay. I want you to get out scissors tonight and light a candle and have a plasectomy party. Okay. Chop them all up.

Okay. I want to get rid of any temptation to ever use them again. Okay. Because that would be just like going and buying this car on payments. You're going backwards to the forward. Right. We can't use them anymore. They have to go away.

And then we're going to put you into Financial Peace University because I've been scared and I know what it's like. But let me just tell you, if you just keep coasting the way you've been coasting and taking these paths of least resistance, like this ridiculous car story, and it's ridiculous, Megan, if you keep doing that, you're going to bankrupt yourself. You've got to turn this in another direction. And that's really go crazy, increase your income, chop up the credit cards and get this car sold and get you a $6,000 car. And unless your parents are going to pay for things, they don't get a vote anymore because their vote was stupid. And you really got to get

this geared up. Hang on, we're going to get you signed up for Financial Peace University and help you with this. Hey, you guys, health insurance costs are only moving one way, and that way isn't down. And if higher costs aren't enough, the wait times to see your doctor are longer, and it's harder than ever to get anything approved through the bureaucracy. So if you feel like the system is working against you, try a biblically-based alternative to health insurance, Christian Healthcare Ministries. CHM is a health cost-sharing ministry that's helped hundreds of thousands of families like yours take care of over $11 billion in medical bills since 1981.

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Thank you for joining us. Open phones at 888-825-5225. A couple of lessons from today's show so far. They were both object lessons for things we have taught many times here before, but we'll just reiterate them. First, never buy something like a house with someone you're not married to, like your fiancé. Earlier caller, fiancé broke up with him, now doesn't want to sell the house that they own together. He's going to end up in a lawsuit to force the sale of the house, the disillusionment of a general partnership, which is what they have, that has no partnership documents.

Because they lived together for five years, got engaged, and then bought a house prior to marriage. Dumb. Really dumb. And she's squatting, saying, I'm not going anywhere. If you're shacking up, don't buy a house with your roommate. That's dumb. You're going to screw up the relationship. You're going to end up in legal you're going to get end up in legal and financial

trouble it's dumb was i unclear george i think you added an extra syllable to that dumb it was that intense stretch it out there with a little southern twang now then the uh second thing we've learned is and i hear this one all the time and both of these things baffle me. That's why I'm hitting them. Because they're just illogical. If you get your car totaled, it is not a reason to upgrade in car. Period. You are driving a $6,000 car. Your car gets totaled. You get a check for $6,000, and suddenly $6,000 cars aren't good enough for you.

That's dumb. Well, they don't make $6,000 cars except for the one that you were driving. I was driving. They don't make them that are reliable except for the one I was driving that was working perfectly fine, thank you very much. Okay? driving that was working perfectly fine. Thank you very much. Okay. Don't use the, I upgraded in car because I got my car totaled. No, you upgraded in car because you wanted a better car. If you were going to do that, you could have just sold the car before it got totaled and then upgraded in car. It would have been the same dumb move, a move you can't afford to do.

That's a dumb move. Don't do dumb moves with money. It causes you to be broke and hurt your feelings. Well, there's a third lesson, too, from another caller, Dave, which is don't get a degree and go into debt $80,000 to go make $40,000. The math ain't math in there. And too many people are doing that. They're getting degrees they hope to use. They're in school for nine years.

And you can't blame it. Compiling debt. And listen, let me just tell you. Some of you guys act like, and I hear this all the time too. It goes right with this. Okay. And this one drives Mike Rowe nuts. This is Mike Rowe's favorite thing. Okay.

I'm going to blame the fact that i didn't do math on passion or passion or as if if i if i say the word passion three times like beetlejuice right if i say passion enough then math doesn't then it it it beats down the math changes the math the math bows down to the word passion no it't. The math rises up and bonks your little passion on the head. That's what happens. And so you can't say it's my passion and make your math work. You have to still be an adult and pay bills. Well, you lose passion pretty quick when you can't breathe because your job doesn't pay the bills, doesn't pay the debt payments so what that what sometimes it's gotten to be late lately when i

hear someone say i want to work in my passion it's code for i'm about to do something really dumb i'm about to go deeply in debt to get a degree that is freaking useless or that doesn't pay enough because it's my passion and that's going to make it okay because it's my passion. Don't spend $250,000 getting a master's degree in sociology so you can be a caseworker for the state making $38,000. That's dumb. Don't do that. Well, it's my passion.

See, passion doesn't cover that. I don't give a crap. If you want to do ministry, go make a bunch of money and do ministry at your church as a volunteer that can scratch your little passion itch oh my gosh all of this just points back to one thing that we've lost in today's world dave and that's common sense just think about the future for just a second about how it's all going to play out and how it could play out and it could help you avoid a lot of these mistakes i mean think out there 10 years how this move is going to come out okay so listen it is it is not a grown-up move to go into a situation that you can't that is not mathematically palatable

spending 250 000 to get a job making 38 and you can make more than $38,000 as a cashier at Target. And call it your passion. It's not okay. It's not okay. It's not being a grown-up. That's a three-year-old on the cereal aisle having a meltdown because mommy wouldn't buy Fruity Pebbles. Because it's my passion that's what that is don't do that crap it's a fruity pebbles meltdown we don't need fruity

pebbles melt meltdowns with adults it really looks foolish so you you really guys seriously so when your car gets totaled take the check and buy a car the same price or cheaper than the car you were driving before. Never buy a house with someone you think you're in love with or that you think is in love with you until or after you walk down the aisle and you say, I do. That's called marriage. Then you have a methodology for dealing with the house. If she kicks you out, you don't have a methodology when you have an unsigned, unwritten set of partnership documents on your general partnership. And you have no freaking idea how you're going to get out of

this mess other than try to talk common sense into the woman that just booted you out of the house it doesn't work guys it doesn't work so you you've got to think these things through and you don't get to violate these rules in the name of love or passion or you know i i'm afraid of a car that breaks down. That's the, you know, so I bought a Bentley. Anything under 20 grand, they just go up in flames, Dave. I've heard that. You got to spend a lot more to get a reliable car. You shouldn't talk about cars going up in flames.

You should never do that, George. A guy that drives a Tesla should not make car go up in flames jokes. Oh, you're right. I apologize. What this comes down to, Dave, is that critical thinking, it turns out, is critical. I know I shouldn't have to say that. Are they teaching that in school anymore? We have to do the critical part and the thinking part.

Yeah, that's the thing. That's a lot to do. that's the thing so yeah and and you know and oh by the way if you're if you're shacked up with your sweetie don't pay somebody's debts that you're not married to because sweetie may take off with a local bartender and then you are stuck with no money and no sweetie that's how this deal works how most country songs are written i'm telling you i think that probably has a possibility there no money no sweetie i'm just saying and he's still paying the mortgage while the ex is living in the house this is real life sadly it's real life and it's it sucks and it hurts because your heart's broken and your brain is fried at the same time because you feel dumb ashamed and heartbroken all the same time it's a horrible place to be in i've done dumber things than this and so i you know i don't want you guys to lose i want you to

win that's why we're here we won't but so we have to speak this absolute what looks like everyone should know stuff out so that the people that don't apparently don't know it stop doing it it's it's it's like a trend well you could stop talking about it people stop doing it but for 30 years now you've been getting the same calls and you're going don't do it i'm telling you it's a trap and then people do it anyways oh if we don't laugh we cry you gotta you gotta think people you gotta think it'll kill you it'll kill you man ah it's just awful man. It's just awful. Wow. I'm so sorry, guys. Oh, my goodness gracious. This is the Ramsey Show. George Campbell, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, Luke and Kate are with us.

Hey, guys, how are you? Good, how are you? Better than we deserve. Welcome to Nashville. Where do you guys live? We're from Asheville, North Carolina. Oh, love Asheville. What a great town.

Very cool. Well, welcome all the way over. And how much debt have you paid off? $176,000. All right. How long did that take? 24 months. Whoa! And your range of income during that time we started at 165 and then when my husband luke finished school we ended at about 275 cool cool what do you guys do for a living i'm a technical product manager and i'm a physician's

assistant with an allergy and immunology practice. Oh, a PA school, huh? Okay, good for you. Great career choices. Amazing. Very well done. Wonderful income. What kind of debt was the 176? PA school?

It was all student loans. I had about 130 for myself, and then she had about 45. Wow. Okay. So you're coming out of school. You say, okay, the income's getting ready to jack. We already make 165, but we're getting ready to jack this and but we got a mess what made you decide to do all this stuff 24 months ago and get real serious about it well it was kind of the the shocking revelation

that hey i gotta find a job to pay all this back i mean i, I think we, I decided to go to PA school and I didn't really know what the numbers were going to look like at the end. And so when we got to the end, it was like, holy cow. And you know, the, the amount put a lot of weight on our shoulders. It was hard to, you know, kind of do the things that we wanted to do without feeling guilty. Yeah. So we wanted to get out of that situation okay very cool is there anything in particular happened 24 months ago that said game on we uh we're about to have our first daughter all right bringing a kid into the world you uh want to kind of go in with a fresh slate and give them the best opportunity they can have yeah they they uh that's like a tuning fork it causes

everything to get into and you go oh wait a minuteoh, wait a minute, adult time, game on. Yeah. Very cool. And how'd you find us? I actually used to work with someone who claimed her and her husband's success was because of Dave Ramsey. And I was like, who's this Dave Ramsey person? So I went home and bought your book, read it in 24 hours, and then went to my husband

and said, you have to read this book it's it's makes so much sense and um we should think about kind of getting on the debt-free journey wow and and so you read both of you read total money makeover so when she comes with your book with and you just finished school look and she's handing you a book i mean what do you say i mean like enough books well i so we didn't get the book when I finished school. We were kind of listeners, but, you know, maybe Dave Light for several years. Entertainment value. Yeah.

Yeah. We really enjoyed the show, but we decided to take it serious when we got out of school. Okay. When the baby's on the way and she reads the book, hands it to you, you're like, yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. Yep. Wow. Very cool. Good for y'all. How old's the baby's on the way and she reads the book, hands it to you. You're like, yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. Yep. All right. Very cool.

Good for y'all. How old's the baby now? She's a little under two, and we're expecting our second in the next month. Yay! Two little girls. Yes, thank you. Fun, fun, fun. Good for y'all.

What a cool journey. Yeah, very good. Most people it takes, we found, the average is 20 years to pay off their student loans. And you guys just buckled down. You have this great income, and you said, we're going to knock it out in two. Was that guys just buckled down. You have this great income. You said, we're going to knock it out in two. Was that a specific goal or did you have a longer time horizon and you beat it?

I think we knew our income was extraordinary for the location that we lived in and just kind of our professions. And we wanted to take advantage of the opportunities that we were given and get it done as quickly as possible so we can invest for the future. Yeah. We were actually able to do it a quickly as possible so we can invest for the future. Yeah.

We were actually able to do it a little bit quicker than we expected. Kate was laid off from a tech company at one point and she was provided a generous severance package. And rather than using that to do other things, we just put all that towards her debt. And she had a job within a week or two after the wow now severance package turns into a signing bonus for the next job yeah that was very helpful yeah that it's all free money then game on yeah it took a lot of vacations and upgrading the car you went oh we got to pay off these student loans yep good for y'all how's it feel so good amazing huge weight lifted off our shoulders was it worth it totally all right what do you tell people the secret to getting out of debt is?

Perseverance and determination. And it's not just about the journey, or it's not just about the destination. It's about the journey, how you get there. And your character changes as a part of it and lasts a little bit longer than just paying off the debt. So it's really rewarding. There's a piece of this where you overcame $176,000 in debt in two years. And so now it's like, what can't we overcome in life, not even finances. And there's something about the debt-free journey that's inspiring. And it

usually begets more transformation. And you guys are a perfect example of that. Yeah, we definitely feel that way. We try to tell all of our friends and family to listen to the show and also Smart Money Happy Hour for my friends who aren't as big of fans of just like listening to straight financial content. Yes, thank you. There we go.

Something for everyone. George, just for a note, you're not straight financial content. We're a gateway drug. Just note that. We're a gateway drug to the Ramsey Show. That's right. That's so fun.

Well, thank you guys for being here and telling your story telling people have said there were drugs involved and i always wondered sometimes a mocktail oh way to go you guys we're so proud of you excellent i mean what an incredible situation how old are you two 33 and my wife turned 30 today so happy birthday all right thank you that's very cool dave's gonna sing to you on air not a bit not a chance they'll do talk radio for a reason but yeah this is great i mean what an incredible this incredible income and no payments you're gonna be able to do anything you want to do from this point man absolutely awesome very very well done what's the next thing you guys are going to do what What's the fun thing, the expensive thing? Well, it's stork mode until we have the baby, and then

I think we're just going to continue to invest money appropriately, and that way we're ready for whatever comes next. You'll be ready. Yeah, definitely. Well done. We've got the Live and Give box for you. That includes the Baby Steps Millionaires book.

You'll be there in a minute if you're not already there. Total money makeover book that started the whole thing for you guys and a Financial Peace University membership. You can use those or you can give them away. You can do whatever you want. They're our gift to you to say thanks for coming all the way over from Asheville, North Carolina to do your debt-free scream. You two are inspiring.

Very well done, heroes. Excellent job. You took control of your life. You could have done a lot of stupid things with this. Instead, you really dialed in, hammered it home, and changed your family tree for these two kiddos. Very, very well done. Good stuff.

Good stuff. All right, it's Luke and Kate, Asheville, North Carolina. $176,000 paid off in 24 months, making $165,000 to $275,000. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free. Yeah.

Whoop, whoop, whoop, whoop, whoop, whoop, whoop, whoop. Man, oh man, oh man man that's excellent very good stuff those are two great career fields too the opposite of what we were talking about earlier i'm gonna be broke and live my passion both of them have i mean pa is a great track in the medical world. That's a great track to get on. And the physician's assistant process and product manager in the technical space. I mean, it's just you can see definitely ROI proofs in the pudding here. They make 275 and no payments in the world at 30 and 34. It's just mind boggling how much more you can give, how much more you can invest after 24 months of sacrifice you know i haven't added it up but if you invested a hundred thousand dollars a year how fast would you be a

millionaire probably six and a half roughly yeah i'm guessing i mean 10 years would be a million dollars if you had no compounding interest to benefit so i stuck it in a mattress yeah you put it put it in a fruit jar you'd'd have that. But that's how fast. I mean, these guys are going to be millionaires when they're 37 or less, something like that. And that's if they live on $175,000 a year. That'll do. You know, I mean, really.

With no payments. You see the power of this. That puts you in an incredible, incredible situation. So beautifully done, guys. That was fabulously done. Very good. That's inspiring. This is what happens.

So, you know, it's funny. You can live your life that way, and you've got to admit that's not normal. That's weird. They're weird people in such a great way. Or you can go be normal. But who the flip wants to be normal? Oh, my God. That's horrible. Nobody wants go be normal. But who the flip wants to be normal? Oh, my God. That's horrible.

Nobody wants to be normal. You shouldn't ever be normal. One out of three people making six figures paycheck to paycheck. Normal sucks. We get those calls. Make 200 grand. We're broke. Normal's awful.

This is the Ramsey show. Our scripture of the day, Philippians 4, 6, don't worry about anything. Instead, pray about everything. Francis Chan says, our greatest fear should not be of failure, but of succeeding at things in life that don't really matter. Oh, love it. Well done. Book launch day for George Campbell. Brand new book is out today, Breaking Free from Broke.

Be sure and check it out at all places great books are sold. It is going to be our next bestseller from Ramsey, and we're really, really excited about this book. It's really strong content, lots of good research on all the gotchas that are out there in the money space. And George does a great job of unmasking the villains. Ooh, there we go. David is with us.

David's in Washington, D.C. Hi, David. How are you? Hi. Thanks for having me today. How are you guys doing? Better than we deserve, sir. How can we help?

Awesome. Yeah. So our question is basically, when should we start investing? We're doing an emergency fund for one year, and we so far have $22,000 saved. Our goal is to get it to $30,000, and that's for the mortgage and stuff like that, if we ever lose a job. So yeah, so my question is, the investing part, should we start investing while we're saving up, or should we focus on the emergency fund first? So when you look at the baby steps, they're laid out. There's seven steps and steps one, two, and three are done one at a time, focus intensity. And you guys right now are in baby step three, saving up the emergency fund. Now you mentioned 12 months. We recommend

three to six months of expenses. Is there a reason you're aiming for 12? It's just our mortgage is like $2,500. So we want to make sure that we're safe for 12 months and especially we're having a baby. And so we want to make sure that he's taken care of as well if something happens to my job or whatnot or my wife's job. You have any debt other than the house? i have a school uh it's two hundred thousand dollar school however i am uh wait a minute your your phone cut out you are what i'm in the government uh so it uh i have four years left so it gets forgiven after four years. So I'm waiting for that. So I'm paying $1,000 per month right now for that.

Okay. What is your degree in? It's a PhD in psychology. I'm sorry. I'm not aware of a federal government program that forgives $200,000 in student loan debt in four years. No, it's 10 years. It's a 10-year program, but I've been in the government for six years. Okay. You're talking about the public student loan forgiveness? Yes. Yes.

Yeah. Okay. And you've been paying into it $1,000 a month for six years? Yeah. Well, no. There were times that I paid less just because. What do you make? What's your household income? Well, we make, combined, it's $182,000. Okay.

Well, David, you're new to all this Ramsey stuff, so there's a couple things going on here. The first thing we teach people to do is get $1,000. The second thing we teach them to do is get out of debt the third thing is have an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses and then and only then do you start investing long term i'm really worried about your public student loan forgiveness you speak with such surety about it but you're apparently not aware that of all the people that have applied in history for the public student loan forgiveness, only one and a half percent have been granted. Ninety-eight and a half percent of the people that do not get it.

Yeah, I'm definitely aware of it. I do have like a tracker from the system and everything. One of the major things I've done is make sure I paid on time and everything, which is one of the areas that have impacted students. And so, yeah, I've been doing all the steps that go with it, which is basically just maintain the government job for 10 years. Yeah. I wish that that would work, but the data says it doesn't work.

And so I can't – I'm the opposite end of the spectrum from you on this. You're very assured it's going to work, and I'm very assured it's not going to. So I'm really afraid for you. But you're going to play it out. There's not any stopping you, I can tell that. So if I were put in charge of, if I woke up in your shoes, I would immediately start paying down the student loan debt because I don't think the government's going to pay it off for you david um the the track record of 98 failure is not due to them not

paying on time it's due to the whole thing's a scam it's the worst government program in the history of man and that really says something considering government programs suck in general uh and and the the bad thing is is they've conned you into working there for nothing for the last six years, too, with this bogus promise. So I wish that it was true. I wish your student loan debt would just poof, go away. But your tracking system is not going to matter when you get up there and they don't do it because they simply don't follow through on it.

They're horrendous uh it is a other types of student loan forgiveness are very real we see them happen all the time uh not the biden program obviously that was unconstitutional and got thrown out but i'm talking about uh there's other types of student loan forgiveness when someone passes away or becomes permanently disabled. Those actually work and do happen. So I'm not a conspiracy theorist or something. But the PSLF specifically. The data is just there. It's abysmal.

So what would I do? I would be working on that. If you're not going to do that, then you need to build that emergency fund. Yeah, a year probably because you're going to wish you had it more than a year when this thing falls apart and a $2,500 house payment. Good Lord. And so, yeah, go ahead and build a year in your case. And then start investing.

And we suggest investing 15% of your income into retirement. I wouldn't put it in retirement. In your case, I would put it in good mutual funds because you're going to need it to pay off these student loans. You're saying outside of retirement. If I'm right. If I'm wrong, then you've got a great big investment and um you know and you got it through but um i wish i was i wish i was wrong uh but 98.6 percent of the people got turned down and it wasn't because they didn't pay the payment on time there are people that were very nerdy and very careful and very dialed in and they just took their wagon to the wrong star

is what it amounts to open phones at 888-825-. I'll tell you, this nation's economy, it would be completely different if we didn't have student loans. It is the biggest, it is one of the biggest drags, anchors, slowing the economy down. It's people dragging all this debt around all over the place. And it's sitting out there unpaid. And it's just dragging and dragging and dragging and we've loaned 18 year olds two hundred thousand dollars on a bogus promise we the taxpayers did it we allow we allowed our congressman congresswomen senate and congress to do the stupid butt stuff and and they continue to make these loans.

Oh, yeah. I walk through in my new book, Breaking Free from Broke, in the student loans chapter, I walk through the history of how student loans actually started and what it's become and how Sallie Mae started as a government program. It's mind-boggling. And it was good intentions. We got to compete with Russia. And then it became, wait, colleges can increase tuition.

And they did. 400% increase since the 80s, Dave, on college tuition. So the numbers you've been seeing over 30 years, now we hear $200,000 in student loans and you don't bat an eyelash. It's just like, well, that's a Tuesday to hear those kinds of numbers. And it takes forever to get out. Those of you that are new to Ramsey that are floating around out there absorbing this podcast or YouTube or radio show or whatever it is, however it is you're getting this, go check out Borrowed Future. It's the documentary that we did that was award-winning.

It was one of the top documentaries a couple years ago when it came out, and it's still accurate. And the numbers are just bizarre. The student loan debacle is just horrible. Just horrible. That puts us out of the Ramsey Show and the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. you