The Ramsey Show - App - My Employer Requires That I Use Credit Cards (Hour 3)

Episode Date: May 11, 2023

Dave Ramsey & Dr. John Delony answer your questions and discuss:   "My employer requires that I use credit cards", "Sell a paid off vehicle to pay off another vehicle?" Living paycheck-to-paycheck vs. having a zero-based budget, from the blog: How to Create a Zero-Based Budget, " I'm having to pause my investing, what do I do?" "Fiancee and I are $180k in debt"  Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET Join a Personality-led FPU class. Click here! Enter The Ramsey Cash Giveaway for a chance at $3,000! https://bit.ly/TRSgvwy Shop our bestsellers during the $10 Sale! https://bit.ly/TRS10Sale Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3cEP4n6 Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6 Interested in advertising on The Ramsey Show? https://ter.li/s64ye3 Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Pods Moving and Storage Studio, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Campbell, joined by my friend Dr. John Deloney this hour, and we are taking your calls at 888-825- 5225. You jump in, we'll talk about life, money, the pursuit of happiness, relationships, boundaries, mental health.

It's all happening right here on The Ramsey Show. That's a very ambitious show you've just outlined. Listen, we gotta aim high. Aim for the stars and you'll land among the moon or something like that. Isn't that the quote? Yeah, that was cool. When your grandma stitched it into a pillow.

That was cool. I saw it at TJ Maxx. All right. I love that you were at TJ Maxx. We should probably spend some time on that. I'm always there. Let's take a call. Martha joins us up first in Greenville, South Carolina.

Martha, welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hi, guys. Hi, George. Hi, John. It's a pleasure to be on the show. I was lucky enough to attend Smart Conference in April, and I loved the entire weekend. Oh, thank you. I'm glad you could join us for that. Hey, while you're on the phone, will you just settle something? Who was better, me or George? I'm just kidding. Don't do that. Don't do that. But hey, listen, because you were just kind, after this call is over, I want you

to hang on the line. I'm going to send you a couple of decks of questions for humans. We're going to take care of you. Thank you so much for saying something nice. This is awesome. Perfect. All right, so what's your question? He's just buttering you up, Martha. All right, let's see if we can help.

He is. He is. Okay, here's my question. I have been following the Ramsey way for about a year. I've paid off $53,000 in debt, which includes some credit. Way to go. Thank you. Which includes some credit card debt. However, I am a director of sales for a company, so I travel often for work, typically about 27 business trips a year. Obviously, air flights, rental cars, entertaining clients, you've kind of got to use a credit card for all of that. Now I expense it,

I get reimbursed within the 30 days. I just don't know how to then also use that within the daily budgeting app, the everyday app. Right now what I do is I pretend the credit card doesn't exist and I pretend the reimbursement doesn't exist. I kind of just treat my everyday app like my personal life and I treat that credit card and any of those travel expenses as if they don't exist. But I don't know if that's the best way to monitor it. I don't know if that's the best thing to do. So does your boss expect you to spend your own money up front? Correct.

How lame is that? That's ridiculous. We do not's ridiculous corporate cards why yeah just the way the company is what an absolute scam like they are they are running their company on your back yeah for our travel that's so stupid so just to to clear up any misconception, what you just said, all those things, entertain clients, stay in hotels, get rental cars, get flights. We all do that with debit cards here at the office. And I love Dave's statement. And by the way, Dave doesn't ask me to spend my own money doing the job that he hired me to do. He fronts the money because

it's his company. It's like him providing tools so I can do my job. But I love the way he says this. And it's such a great line. He said he's always had buddies who also run businesses who say, I can't believe you give all your employees or a big chunk of your leadership team or whoever debit cards access to the company checking account and he says i can't believe you hire people that you trust so little that you don't trust them with that you should they shouldn't be walking in your building right but i am i'm getting on to your boss and your boss isn't on the phone right so this is like a practical thing so sorry i i'm kind of in a mood today, George.

Yeah, he's on something. And so here's the thing, Martha. Have you tried to have a conversation with your leadership and go, hey, listen, this money is real and it's coming from my account and it's just too much to manage and I'm uncomfortable with this situation. Either give me a corporate card that I can use that's not tied to my name and my credit, or you give me petty cash or you call ahead and you make all these payments happen before I go on these trips? Because they can book the travel for you, right? Yeah, it's a great question. I did a couple of years ago, and we were told by the executive team, no, we're not doing that. I will say that while our CEO is still the same CEO, our executive team has changed. So're not doing that. I will say that while our CEO is still the same CEO,

our executive team has changed. So I very well could approach that question with our new executive team and see what happens. Yeah. And you said you're using your personal credit card right now, correct? Correct. So what's the difference if you tried to use a personal debit card to do all of this? There really isn't any. What do you mean? Especially since I do have, I mean, you're right. The point is you're right. When I personally travel, I book hotels, I book rental cars, I do all of the things that you mentioned, and I do it with a debit card. Correct. The debit card means the money comes straight out of checking where the credit card goes there, and then I get the reimbursement and I pay it. So I'm not taking my money right out.

Well, how about this? Tell them, hey, I don't own credit cards. You cut yours up, and you say, I don't own credit cards, and I don't have all this money sitting in my checking account to front for travel. That's an option. Listen, there is, let's think of construction companies. There are some construction companies that you show up to site, and they've got all the tools for you. And there are some jobs where they say, you have to your own tools or you can't work here. That's a reality. Okay. I don't like it. That's a truthful place. That's a truthful

statement. So let's pretend you go talk to your supervisors and they say, hey, we ran up the flag pole. It ain't happening. The same rules are going to apply. There's a couple of things that I do, and George, I don't know if you do this personally, but when I book travel, I use a site called privacy.com. And what that is, is I can put my debit card into that site and I don't have any affiliation with them. They have no affiliation with the Ramsey Show, so it's just a free ad for them. But I put my card in and every time i go to a hotel they give me another card and i can create a new card and a new card and a new card so that the hotel never has my debit card the and i can put the limit on how much they can pull from it and it makes it gives me endless

amounts of cards and the service is free it's amazing but okay So if somebody ever hacks into that, I'm toast. But until then, none of these online vendors, none of the restaurants, none of those folks have my actual debit card. And that's a privacy concern that I have. And I share that. But that's how I navigate the world that way. The second thing is, is you might want to create a separate checking account. Think of it like a business account. If you had a side hustle, create a separate checking account, put $10,000 in that account. And that is the money you spend to entertain clients and you get reimbursed. And I want you to hang closely on the words you said earlier. That feels like my money. Whereas the credit card doesn't. The credit card's your money too. Okay. You are just robbing Peter to pay Paul.

It's an illusion and it's going to hurt a lot more. And it's going to make that conversation with your supervisor a little more poignant because that's my money out of my checking account. It feels different, right? Yeah. Yeah. I think they could easily front load the money into an account for you to spend from. But they probably won't.

I mean, they could, but I don't think they will. Yeah, they probably won't. All you do is you turn in receipts and go, here's what I spent. I didn't spend any more. I didn't use this unwisely. There you go, being rational. I would trust Martha because she's my director of sales, and she's a person of character.

And if they don't trust you, that's a whole other issue. Perfect. Thanks, guys. You're so welcome. Best of luck. Thanks for being awesome. Hang on the line. We'll get you those questions for humans. Conversation starters, for sure. Thanks for the call. This is The Ramsey Show. If you've never experienced smart conference before, let me tell you, the energy in the room is absolutely electric. And that's before it even starts. There's something about being in the arena with thousands of people who care

about the same things you do, getting control of your money, improving your mental health, strengthening your relationships and building a successful career and hanging out with George Camel. That's what Smart Conference is. So, Chicago, get ready. The Cubs

have lost a lot. We won't lose. Smart Conference is coming to you. Join all of our Ramsey personalities, Dave Ramsey, Rachel Cruz, George Campbell, Jade Warshaw, Ken Coleman, and myself, me at Smart Conference weekend on September 15th through 16th.

Right now, our early bird general admission ticket price is $79, and we have a limited VIP and platinuminum tickets, so don't wait to get yours. Those always sell out super quick. The VIP ticket. I'm a great reader,

everybody. The VIP ticket includes a meet and greet with Jade, Rachel, George, Ken, and me. And I love getting to meet you all and hear your stories. It's awesome. Seriously, this is an action-packed weekend. It's a ton of fun, nonstop excitement. Go to ramsaysolutions.com slash events today to get your tickets. Ramsey's biggest event of the year. Go to ramsaysolutions.com slash events. Pump for this, John. I hope we don't have a reading competition at this event. No, I wouldn't do that

to you. I did Mavis Beacon teaches typing. You ever do that? I will out-read and out-type you. You did what and what and what and what? Never mind, John. I thought you were cool and hip and with it. There was an old school software where you could learn how to type as a kid. The people out there know.

They know. That's the most millennial thing you've said in a while besides, man, I wish I could get my jeans tighter. You said that a minute ago. But you said an old school software yeah you know you get a for me old school is pre-software like the old cd-rom the old dad just walk out on the on the front porch and whistle and you have to come home because he can't text you that's that's the old days let's get to the phones before they take us off the air. Daniel's up next in Austin, Texas. Daniel, welcome to the show.

Hey, guys. Thanks for having me. I had a question in regards to I've been listening to you guys, the podcast, Dave Ramsey's book, Money Makeover, and I feel like we're almost there, and we are trying to decide if it's going to be a smart decision or just continue to make payments on the final vehicle that i have um one of my vehicles finally got paid off about six months ago awesome if i end up selling that about

35 000 is what i'll get out of it and I can try to put it towards the vehicle that I own now, which is the family car. All the kids are always on it. The wife drives it everywhere. The current vehicle that I have is only to take me to work and back. So I don't know if that's a smart decision or just continue to pay. What's left on the loan? $42,000. Okay. And it's the only debt you What's left on the loan? $42,000. Okay, and it's the only debt you have is that one car loan? Yes, that's right.

What's the household income? $82,000. Dude, is that a $75,000 car? We got it for $58,000. It's a 2022 Highlander. But you make $80,000 and you have $77,000 worth of cars? Yeah, so we recently, I'm active duty military and we recently just PCS, moved to a new duty station. And the current home that I had at my old place, I was able to sell it and pay off all of my debt minus this vehicle. That's just a lot of car comparatively to the income.

So I would sell it only because it's too much car, not just because you want to pay off the loan. Yeah, I'd sell it, man. I hate to do that. I'd rather see you in a 2006 Camry that your buddies roll their eyes when you pull in. I'd rather see you in that until y'all can get a little more financially secure. The other option is selling the family car. Yeah, what's the family car?

I'm talking about selling the Highlander. That's a no-brainer. Yeah, so that's the Highlander. That's the family car. And the other one is a 2016 GMC Sierra. I looked on the market. It runs between $32,000 to $35,000. A private child, I could probably get it for $36,000.

What about the Highlander? What could that sell for? That I have not looked up. How much money do you guys have in the bank? We have approximately $7,000. Tell me the specs on that Highlander. Fully loaded. I mean, it has everything.

What year is it? 2022. How many miles on it? I think it only has 17. We got it brand new. John will buy it. Well, I've been in the market for a Highlander for a while. And so, yeah, you can get upwards of 40 for that without a problem, 38 to 40.

And if you do it private market, you could probably get as much as 42, 43. So the question is, you have two options I see. You could sell your paid off car, which doesn't free up a payment, but it does almost get rid of this debt. With your $7,000, you'll get there, right? Yes. Or you could sell the Highlander and get a cheaper family car. That's not $42,000.

Okay. Or the super complex is I'd sell them both. I'd sell them both, and I'd probably buy a used Highlander back down about six or seven years, and you're still going to pay a lot of money. You can pay $25,000 for it, but you're going to have cash, and you're going to lose that precious Sierra. And, dude, I have a truck. I get it.

You'll probably shed a tear as it leaves, and you can get yourself a used Camry and drive that sucker around, and it's going to be the worst being a military dude in Texas in a Camry. I get it. But man, you're going to be able to build something for your family. You're going to accelerate that a lot faster. I like the plan of selling both and keeping the cars under 40K total and then having a fully funded emergency fund. It's a great spot to be in. Thanks for the question. All right. Our question of the day is brought to you by Neighborly, your hub for home services. Take your home's efficiency and style to the next level with their convenient solutions from Shelf Genie, Window Genie, and Glass Doctor.

Visit Neighborly.com to schedule home service professionals near you. All right. Today's question comes from Samantha in Virginia. My husband and I are planning to start paying off our own student loans. I owe about $30K000 and currently make $40,000 and when my husband gets out of school next summer, he will owe around $150,000 and make $100,000. My mother is guilting me into paying off the Parent PLUS loans totaling about $100,000 that she took out to help pay for my education. She claims that before I went off to college, I agreed to pay off any loans she took out,

but I don't remember this conversation and I feel like she's making it up. On top of this, she has no job and claims she can't afford the loan. How should we go about this? Oof. This is more a relationship question than a financial question.

Yeah. So, legally, you have no obligation. Your mom took out a loan in her name and I, you're the one writing in. So I trust you. Y'all never had this conversation. She was so excited about her baby girl going to college and she signed away all this money. And all of a sudden the bills are coming in. She's got no job, no way to pay it back. And now you married some fancy guy who's going to make six figures and she thinks you're going to be rich and she thinks you can just take all this on. So you have absolutely no legal responsibility on this debt. And if I were you, I would just pay it. Not because mom said that. Listen, I get it.

She changed the deal on you. Whatever. It's my college. I'm going to pay it. I'm going to move on. It's going to take me forever, and I'm going to pay you last. We're going to pay off the debt that I've got sitting in my name. We're going to pay off my husband's debt, and then we will circle back to this sucker. But I would also not give her a penny.

Not a penny. All of this would go directly to the loan servicing company if we get there. I don't know. That's how I'd handle it, man. It may just be me taking the high road and not wanting to fight. I would get all the details on this because it's either napalm the relationship with mom and don't pay. Well, mom has already napalmed it. Yeah, it's over anyway. It's a lot of guilt. But looking at the numbers here, you'll have $180,000 in student loans plus the 100 parent plus, making $140,000. It's going to take a while. Even throwing $60,000, $70,000, $80,000 at this, it's going to take three, four, five years to get rid of this.

But knowing that going into it is going to help you guys stomach this and go, all right, we got a huge pile to clean up, but we're going to have a great income to do that with. And we'll see what happens with the relationship with mom. No guarantees there. Thanks for the question. This is The Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel, joined by Dr. John Deloney today. If you enjoy this show, you might enjoy some of the other shows on The Ramsey Network.

If you didn't know, Dr. John's got his own show that he does next door called The Dr. John Deloney Show. And I've got a brand new YouTube channel that's out there if you just search for george camel on youtube and uh people are enjoying your show john and they're enjoying yours well the comment section on youtube is brutal have you ever been over there nope it's a party man i do not go there when i first started my youtube show um somebody wrote some awful awful thing and they made some like wildly insane clinical response and I had worked in higher ed for so long that I'm used to calling back parents and dealing with some of these and so I was trying to figure out how to log in so I could give them my cell number oh no that's how out of the loop I was don't let John on the internet I asked Abigail

I was like, hey, how do I log into this? I need to give this guy my number. He's really not jiving with my show and he's got some incorrect information. And she looked at me and was like, never. Never. Put yourself. Smart. Anyway, I just kind of avoid the YouTube comments.

And here you are today. Somehow surviving social media. Somehow. Alright. Let's go to the phones. Tessa joins us all the way in Saskatchewan, Canada. Wow. Tessa, are you with us? I am. Thank you for having me.

Glad you could join us across the border. Thank you. What's going on? So my question is, we are following the plan. We've actually paid off almost all our debt. The only thing we have left um our van payment should be done by the end of the year way to go i'm just way to go thank you thank you i guess i'm just feeling a little not discouraged isn't the word but is living paycheck to paycheck the only way to walk the baby steps everyone says living paycheck to paycheck like it's a bad thing but i feel like in order to walk the baby steps. Everyone says living paycheck to paycheck, like it's a bad thing. But I feel like in order to follow the baby steps, that is the only way

to live. And even once we're on to baby step number three, four, five, six, seven, we still will be living paycheck to paycheck. I guess it's just how do you get past that stigma? Because is that not what we are supposed to be doing? That is a budget. Is that not right? I think we have to define living paycheck to paycheck because the point of our plan is to stop living paycheck to paycheck. And so the way I see that is when you cover all of just your bills,

you have no money left at the end of the month. Okay, and we don't. Like after this, we will have money to save. Yeah, so a budget, a zero-based budget where we say your income minus expenses equals zero, that just means every dollar has been allocated. It doesn't mean that you have zero margin. It just means the margin,

you have $400 going towards your saving goals now instead of just floating away because you didn't make a plan for it. Or you have $300 going towards buying clothes and getting a massage like living your life right it's just being intentional yes okay no and that makes sense i just i always feel like people talk living paycheck to paycheck and saying it like it's a bad thing and i just keep relating that to the baby steps i'm thinking but is that not what we're going to be doing forever but i see it it's just allocating our money differently and knowing where it's going.

It means having a plan for your paycheck, which to me is the opposite. And so, yeah, we're talking about the same thing in different ways, but no, we don't advocate for living paycheck to paycheck at all. No, in fact, all of us up here, like Dave, me, George, we have lived paycheck to paycheck before. And we know how scary that is. I've had to call a friend and ask to borrow a credit card to go to the ER because I was sick. And I was married at the time. Right? I've walked around my house when my wife was asleep and she didn't know how bad it was.

Like, we get it. Or I'm going to lose my house. Hey man, can I come live in your house? I've been there, right? So this whole thing is giving people a path out of it. What you're experiencing right now, as you're on the back end of this, you're almost done with the running for your life part. And then you get to build a little bit of a safety net, which is your emergency fund, right? Yeah. What you're finding, what your eyes are starting to open is just how sick the culture is. It's insanity, right?

Right, exactly. And you're starting to see it because you're experiencing, you're slowly getting there and you're realizing, oh my gosh, everybody's living insane. Right. You are correct. You're correct. Okay. Okay.

And that's, I guess, where I was coming from. You see these people that just will go sporadically drop $3,000 on a quick trip somewhere for the weekend, and you think, how could they do that? But that's why they're probably in the mess that they're in. It's not real. It's not real. It's not real. Yeah. They're not doing okay, regardless of what their Instagram says.

That's right. Thank you guys so, so much. I appreciate it. You're welcome. That's a great call, Tessa. Thank you. Keep spreading the word across the border. We appreciate you.

All right, let's go to Norfolk, Virginia, where Chris is. Chris, welcome to the show. Hey, how's it going? Great. How are you? Doing pretty good. Doing pretty good. What's going on? So right now I'm kind of at a fork in my career right now. I got a job offer doing something that I'm not really passionate about. We're in the process of going through the baby steps on baby step two. And I'm working multiple jobs right now. But I'm not sure if I should just,

if I do take this better paying job, I'll have to quit all the other ones. But it's something that I don't see it being long-term, like by any means. What is the job? So I'd be working, basically it's an office job. I'll be a scheduler. I'll be basically dealing with airplanes and whatnot.

So, yeah. Now, they think you're qualified for this. Did you apply for this job? Or did they seek you out? Yeah, I did. Okay. So, why did you apply for it? Because I actually lost my job, and I applied for two jobs at the same time,

and it took a really long time for me to get word back from the better paying job that is offering me the job right now. What's it pay? Does that make any sense? It's not set in stone, but between $47,000 and $61,000. And what are you making now? Roughly $33,000. There's other things that I'm doing. And these are just side jobs you're doing? A bunch of random gigs?

Yeah, basically, yeah. How much debt do you have? $26,000. I would take the job. I'm taking it. No, no. Because you're not passionate about all these side hustles either, are you? Actually, the job that I'm in, that's eventually what I want to go to school for.

What is it? I want to train dogs. Okay, cool. Can you do that on the side? I can, but not... You're doing it right now on the side. Oh, that's such a great... George Byrne. George Byrne.

George Byrne. I'm just literally asking. I think the money that I'm making right now, I could be making a lot more if I had my certification. You know what I mean? Sure. I can't just go to somebody's house and train somebody's dog. So why don't we take this new job, get certification once we're out of debt.

So let's focus on take the new job get the income up let's get out of debt really fast so that we can get the certification so we can get back to dog training really fast that's the shortest path i see okay and like you're about to double your income you're gonna double your income yeah and let's let's justify your concern a little bit if you were had a job you just stumbled into or had a friend who knew a guy or your dad knew somebody and got you a job at an architecture firm, and they were actually letting you be in the room when they were doing R&D and when they were doing bidding and when they were talking with clients, and you wanted to go be an architect, I might tell you, hey, man, you want to sit in on this one. Because you've got a golden ticket that most people will never get.

You will have an inside seat to this, and it's going to really enhance your schooling. You want to train dogs. So if you step away from that, anybody is going to take you to go get certification because you're just going to – there's not like this deep, dark application process. You're going to pay them.

You're going to go train dogs, and then you're going to hit the market, and nobody's going to pay them. You're going to go train dogs. And then you're going to hit the market. And nobody's going to care. They're not going to look at your resume and be like, explain the gap when you went to be an office manager for a few years, doubling your income. No one's going to ask you that question. You're just going to be a great dog trainer, man. So I would take the job, no questions asked, get your debt paid off, and then start planning your life after that. You know what to do, man. And we're going to send you Ken Coleman's book from paycheck to purpose to help you take another step towards

this dog training career that you badly want. And I think it's going to show you the path to get there. So hang on the line. We'll get you that resource. Appreciate the call. Our scripture of the day comes from James 4.14. Why you do not even know what will happen tomorrow. What is your life? You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes. Very emo. I love it. In a turn of events, Jack Black once said,

I'm fairly certain that YOLO is just carpe diem for stupid people. Dude, Jack Black's incredible. Absolute genius. Hey, go back to that scripture of the day. Why, you do not even know what will happen tomorrow. What is your life? You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes. I promise that's from My Chemical Romance.

I think they use that. I am fairly certain that's a lyric. Soance. I think they use that. I am fairly certain that's a lyric. So emo. We love to see it from James. Wow, maybe it's a real big fish.

Yeah, James, just sitting in the poetry in the corner writing. That's all awesome. Good stuff. James sitting in the corner writing poetry about his dad. Cool, man.

Well, let's brighten things up with our next caller. It's Jessica from Raleigh, North Carolina. Jessica, welcome to the show. Hi, thank you. What's going on? So, yeah, so my husband and I are currently in baby steps four, five, and six. We just kind of made it there in the past couple of months. Congratulations. Can we cheer for you for a second? Way to go. Sure. That's awesome awesome how much you pay off thanks i was about 24 congrats way to go that's

awesome thanks so my question is i just also started a new job in march and we have a 90-day waiting period before i can contribute to my 401k and so i'm just kind of wondering in that waiting period, if it makes sense to just kind of work on five and six until I can start four. My husband's able to contribute to his. So right now he's, I think, contributing about four or 5%. But I'm just kind of trying to figure out what to do with the surplus in our budget. Could you contribute to an IRA? I could. I just, I was waiting to figure out like more about what's a match and if there's a Roth 401k before I contribute, like before I put things in a different investment opportunity.

Well, I think right now your best opportunity is the one in front of you, which would be probably a Roth IRA if you guys are underneath the income limits. I think we are actually above that. Okay. So you could do a backdoor Roth as well. Okay. So that's an option for you where you fund the traditional with after tax money and then convert it over. And so that would be a good option for you. Again, 90 days is not going to make or break your retirement. And so if you wanted to throw it into the college fund for those few months and front load that, that's fine, or throw a little extra on the home. There's no like, we're not legalistic around here going, well, you did it the wrong way, Jessica. You guys are doing great. And so if I were you and you

wanted to follow the baby steps, I would allocate that money towards whatever investment I could. And right now that would be an IRA. Okay. That's great. Thank you so much. Yeah. Congratulations. And once you get that Roth 401k, you can do all 15% there. If there's good mutual fund options and low fees, that's an easy way to knock out your 15%. What's a low fee? Well, there's different expense ratios. Comparatively to a Roth IRA, there can be different fees

depending on what fund you're investing in. It's generally like a 0.06%. Okay. You know, they're not huge or 0.2%. But depending on what 401k you have and the IRA you have, you know, it might be a wash in the end. Okay. All right. Let's move on to Brian in Tampa.

Brian, welcome to the show. Hey, gentlemen. Thank you so much for taking my call. I know you're up against it, so I'll try to be brief. What's going on? Yeah, so my fiance and I, we got engaged back in October, and we found Ramsey a few weeks ago, so we've been diving in through the content and trying to watch all the YouTube content. We currently have $180,000 of debt, the majority of that being student loans. But we also have two cars.

Her car is $23,300 as a 6% interest remaining balance, and my car is $12,500 remaining balance. Our combined income before taxes is about $135,000. My question is, is if we should keep the cars? And then my second question is, at what point during the baby steps should we start saving up for a wedding? Okay. So when is the wedding? We haven't set a date yet. I think we still just kind of want to work through our debt first. Whoa. So you want to wait until all the debt is paid off to get married? Possibly, yeah. That feels like it's going to take a while.

You're going to be engaged for five years? So where we're living right now, our rent is relatively low. It's about $1,000 a month. So I think our shovels are big enough to to work oh you guys are already living together yes okay that that explains some of it how much do you make uh together we make about 135 before taxes okay can i how honest can i be with you medium or full full you promise promise because i already know y'all were just plugging along doing life and then you ran into these videos and already the size and scope of your the next few years has already

been altered just because you ran into our crazy gang on youtube right yeah definitely but at the same time we're also energized that's awesome so i'm to make it a little bit worse. Okay. The last 20 years of my life, the last 23 now, my life has been spent sitting with people when things have happened that they did not see coming or they absolutely did not expect. Not a majority, but a huge chunk of those are the blind side when a fiance just bails, when a husband calls and says, I'm moving out, when a wife says, I found somebody else. And for you, where you're sitting, you are ironclad in your love. It's never going to happen to us. And what I want to tell you is my whole career has been based on, yeah, but sometimes it does. And I tell you that not to freak you out or to make you question that your fiance, but to tell you, if you spend the next three years, you paying off her debt or her paying off your debt,

and then all of a sudden something happens. And let's say you all go in and pay off her student loans. They're the smallest ones, smallest to largest in and pay off her student loans. They're the smallest ones, smallest to largest. You pay off her student loans and then she leaves or you leave. You have just put all that money in and you have nothing to show for it. There's no recourse. There's no nothing. That's why we're pretty adamant. When you get married to somebody, there is a legal process for separating that marriage. There is not that same process when you're dating. So what I would tell you is, man, and this is just because I love you. I would tell you, I would not pay off my partner's debt until we are bound both spiritually and legally. That's why I would tell you I'd go down to the justice of the peace and get married.

That's what I would do. Or we'd have a small wedding with some friends and we would throw rice at each other and then call it good and plan a big, fun, dramatic celebration. Once we've paid off his 180 grand. That's what I would do. If I was, if you asked me like, Hey, what would you actually do in your real life? That's what I would do in my real life. Or I would commit, Hey, we're going to go in parallel. We're both going to watch FPU. We're going to do the baby steps, but I'm paying off my debt and you're paying off your debt because it's not our debt yet until we're legally bound up.

Okay, and let's say that we do go down to the courthouse and kind of do that legally. At that point, what would you think about the cars? I don't think the cars are the big issue. They're so small, man. You can pay them off and just keep them. Okay. But the cars aren't what's holding you guys back.

It's those massive student loans. And like John was saying, don't combine incomes, don't combine debt. There's a lot of we conversation, and I know you guys are living together already, but legally and financially, you need to keep everything separate until you're married. And the moment you get married, you put everything in a pot. There's not, hey, you pay the light bill and I'll pay this bill. No, we pay these bills because our money is combined and it's together. And that forces you guys to have conversations about who we are going to be as a married couple and the vision we have for the life we are building together for ourselves, our future, our legacy, our communities, our country, all that stuff, right?

We're going to do that stuff together. But for now, we're doing separate debt snowballs. We're using your income to pay your debt, choosing her income to pay her debt, smallest to largest. And then we'll see what happens come wedding day. And if you want to cash flow a real small little thing, that's fine. But I would not go spending 50 grand on a wedding in the next few years. Yeah. I'd get that student loans knocked out. I'd work a second job, a third job. Get that crap out of your life, man. Your whole life is being held up right now by those student loans. And you've got so much joy and excitement on the

other end, man. I'll give you some silver lining. As a newlywed gift, we're going to give to you FPU, Financial Peace University. Go through it with your fiance as kind of a premarital counseling on the money side. And I hope that gives you guys some shared vision and excitement for the future. That puts this hour of The Ramsey Show in the books. My thanks to all the folks in the booth keeping the show afloat. You, America. Until next time, spend wisely, save intentionally, and give generously.