The Ramsey Show - App - My Ex-Husband Wants to Stop Paying Alimony (Hour 2)

Episode Date: July 16, 2020

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🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studio, this is the Dave Ramsey Show, where America hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money. I'm Chris Hogan, and co-hosting with me this hour is Dr. John Deloney. We are ready to take your calls and dig in and give you the best advice that we can give you. So, John, how are you? Outstanding. And yourself? I'm good.

Are you awake and ready to roll? I am, to quote my good friend Chris Hogan. Oh. I'm focused and not finished today. See, that's just straight brown nosing right there is when you try to come in quoting me and stuff. But you know what? It does get you favor.

It does get me favor. I like you. I like you today. Let's not take it any further than that but just today right now in this moment quote Chris Hogan you're going to do alright here we go alright now listen everyone not only are we going to take your calls but we're also doing social media questions

and so what I want you to do you can find the show at Ramsey Show but you can also look up Deloney on all the things at John Deloney Facebook YouTube Instagram send him some questions he gets lonely and pouts when you on all the things. At John Deloney, Facebook, YouTube, Instagram. Send him some questions. He gets lonely and pouts when you don't send in questions that I have to hear about it.

It's just as sad, y'all, at the break, and I can't be trying to boost him, make him feel better. But you can find me at ChrisHogan360. I joke. But find us on social media. We want to take your social media questions as well as your phone calls. If you've got a question and you've been dealing with something with family throughout this COVID virus,

something emotional, anxiety, fear, whatever it is, give us a call. The number to call is 888-825-5225. Or maybe you've got a situation with a family member or something and you're going, man, this relationship thing is really messing with me mentally. John can help you with that. And if you've got a financial question, I'd love to tackle it as well. So, again, the number to call is 888-825-5225. All right, John, we've got some social questions that have come in already,

and I want to hit you with one. This one is, ooh, this is good. This is from Rachel, not Ramsey. I was going to say Rachel Cruz. Not Rachel Cruz. She's always sneaking questions in there. No, this is good. This is from Rachel, not Ramsey. I was going to say Rachel Cruz. Not Rachel Cruz. She's always sneaking questions in there. No, this is from the Ramsey Baby Steps community. And it says, what's the best relationship advice for newlyweds starting their lives together while also hustling and working like crazy to be debt free?

Man, that's an easy one. All right. Put a moment on a calendar every day and put a moment on a calendar every week and look each other in the eye and speak the week in pictures. Say the phrase, what does the picture of today look like for you? Not, hey, what's today? Because she's going to say, I want to have a date tonight. I'm going to be tired tonight.

I need some space tonight. And you're going to say, okay, great. And space to you is going to mean she's still going to make dinner and she's still going to mow the lawn. She's still going to re-roof the house and still wash the cars. But she may be saying space for me means I need some help with the kids. And so just instead of speaking in words, speak in pictures together and put on the calendar, make sure it's something that you get in a habit and a routine of doing. Instead of speaking in words, speak in pictures together. And put it on the calendar. Make sure it's something that you get in a habit and a routine of doing, and then you're going to wake up 10 years later, 20 years later, and you're going to not only be communicating well,

but you're going to be connected. Very good. Speak in pictures. I like that. All right, we're going to get to the phone. We've got Susan on the line. Susan, what's your question for John and I? Hi.

About 35 years ago, I got married. I quit school because we moved to New York for him to go to school. Ten years ago, we wound up getting a divorce. There were anger issues and a bunch of other stuff going on. And part of those anger issues was he was never really able to keep a job for long. So ten years ago when we got the divorce, part of the agreement was he was to pay me spousal support, mostly to help me go back to school and then also half of what would have been his pension.

So right now, the $200 was pretty much set to go indefinitely and he didn't realize that the dollar amount is how much $200 a month $200 a month okay go ahead yeah um so now you know again he you know the the job situation the same for him he just doesn't seem to hold a job very long but he's been constantly complaining to me that he wants to stop paying me spousal support. And I'm trying to figure out at what point, because I don't want to be tied to him forever either. But I'm trying to determine at what point to say, okay, we're done.

Well, what did the divorce decree, the agreement is he pays it for how long? Indefinitely. So you have it for life? Yes. Okay. Do you need $200 a month? Do I need it? I'm mid-60s, and I only have about $50,000 right now in savings.

I just bought a house. In fact, I'm supposed to be signing for it next week. But I saved up for the down payment yeah I get that I get that you've got you've got ongoing expenses and um you're in you're in the back half but do you need $200 a month or I would call it the um the divorce tax do you still need to be connected to this guy that you've been legally divorced from for 10 years do you still need that $200 a month to get through your day? I would have to work extra to make that happen. And then, like I said, I don't.

You know, 64, I've only got about $50,000 right now in savings. Sure, and it's not a judgment question. But it's not a judgment question um but it comes it it's it's it's not me poking at you i just want you to you have a calculator math but you also have a soul and relational math and for me um 10 years later 10 years after i went to court to say i can no longer be with this person i've got to be be separate. Man, I'd have to really, really need that $200 to still be connected financially, still be supported by somebody who I went to court and said I can't be with. And, Susan, here's the reality.

Unfortunately, you don't just get to make that decision. You're actually going to have to consult with an attorney because this was a legal decree that was entered X number of years ago. And so you would have to process the emotional side, as John is mentioning, of do you want to even have to deal with this anymore? And regardless of where you land on that, if it is a no, then you're going to have to get some legal guidance to figure out what you need to do, i.e. legal expenses to get that moving. And you need to spend some soul searching, you know, and you want to be intentional with this and you're going to have to get legal guidance. It's not just your call to make in this situation. Thank you for that call.

But you're talking about $2,400 a year. That's right. Right? That's right. And so if that's my friend, I would say, man, figure that out. Figure out a way to get $2,400 and free yourself up from the headache. Right. Yeah, the obligation or the headache. Yeah. That's good. Okay. Thank you so much for the call.

All right. Listen, if you're out there and you've got a question we want to hear from you, the number to call is 888-825-5225. number to call is 888-825-5225. Again, that's 888-825-5225. All right, John, I told you we had social questions. I'm going to hit you with another one here. This one is, you've got the relationship. It says, this is from Tyler.

It says, my wife left me last month. During everything that's going on, how do I rebuild my life after nine and a half years as identifying as her husband? What are some techniques to manage this level of motions in my daily life? Number one, you don't start rebuilding one month out. Ten year relationship, you just lost an arm and a leg. You've got to grieve and you've got to mourn that and you cannot do that alone. So you get with a couple of people that you can trust and be vulnerable with that might even be a professional counselor or a pastor

a couple of buddies and you take a slow hard walk through grief and you will come out with the community on the other side of this ready to rock and roll that is good don't do it alone don't isolate get community in your life. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Folks, I love telling you about well-made, well-thought-out products. Today, I'm talking about Grip6 belts. I don't know about you, but I'm not a fan of traditional belts. They never fit right, and they're uncomfortable. Grip 6 belts are unique. Owner BJ designed a truly modern, minimalist belt made of high-quality materials with no holes, no flap, and no bulk. And the

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That's GRIP6.com. Hello, everyone. You are listening to the Dave Ramsey Show. I'm Chris Hogan, and co-hosting with me this hour is John Deloney, and we are ready to take your calls. So if you're out there and you've been thinking about a relationship question or a question dealing with family or dealing with emotions, we want to hear from you. And if you've got a money question, obviously you can call us in. At the break, I was talking to John here about some stuff he's got going on, and you've got a money question, obviously you can call us in. At the break I was talking to John here about some stuff he's got going on.

And he's got a recent article. And this article is really good. It's going to grab people's attention. It's called, Everything You Know About Anxiety Is Wrong. Okay. That's presumptuous. It's provocative, right?

It's presumptuous. I like presumptuous. What's provocative, right? It's presumptuous. I like presumptuous. What do you dig into in this article? I know people need to go read it, but just give me some ideas of what you got going on in it. That all anxiety is bad. Okay. That anxiety is a disease that you can never be cured from. That the first and most important thing you need to do when you feel anxious is go take a bunch of medicine.

No. Or that you never, ever, ever, ever need medicine, and medicine's only for wimps and idiots. All these Googlizations of all these, of the anxieties, it's all nonsense, man. Did you say Googlization? I just made that word up. You sure did. I found it on the YouTubes. We're going to get messages about that, because you're making up words uh but you're right anxiety is not all negative um and people are dealing with

that in these times they are and and dave and i and you and i've talked about this a lot that um you know if if we've got a recession slash depression slash global pandemic slash our schools start not starting. If you're not feeling anxious, go see a doctor now because your brain is not firing right. You know what I mean? People should be anxious. It's when those alarm systems, those anxiety alarms that say we're not safe, we're lonely, we're disconnected, when those things get out of control and they are firing at all times of the morning, during the night,

you can't sleep, you can't move, you can't eat, you you don't want to be with people you start to feel everybody around you's crazy that's when you really need to sit down and say i need some i need some folks in my life they're going to walk alongside me in this fantastic all right you can go check this out this is the latest john does the latest article on davramsey.com again the title is everything you know about anxiety is wrong definitely want to give that a read because you're right, dude. Life is happening, and people are feeling all kinds of ways. And what you want to do is to make sure that you're in touch with yourself, but at the same time having the right kind of outlet.

So that's a good read. I'm going to check it out. All right, we're getting back to the phones. We've got Brian on the line. Brian, what can John and I do for you? Hi, Chris and John. How are you guys doing today? Doing Chris and John. How are you guys doing today? Doing great, buddy.

How are you? I am very well, thank you. Uh, just cards on the table. Um, I'm new to Dave Ramsey, but I've listened to him as much as I can over the last few weeks, and right now I'm all in, and I'm ready to be an everyday millionaire. All right. Well, I like the sound of this. Yeah, welcome, Brian.

And hey, everything about your life's about to change, just what you didn't know on the front end. So what's up? How can we help? Well, my wife and I, we're currently in Baby Step 6. And with our new budget that we just did, we're going to be paying the house down in about seven years. Good. But I know in Baby Step 2, you shouldn't put any money into retirement.

And I know a quote from Dave is, your number one wealth building tool is your income. That's right. So with that being said, why aren't baby steps four and six switched? Because I did a quick amortization schedule, and if I took that 15% and put it down towards the house, I would pay it off in five years instead of seven. I'm just curious as to why they're not switched. No, no, no.

That is a very good question, Brian. And here's the reality. Typically, people are spending around 35% of their income on consumer debt. Consumer debt being credit cards, car loans, things of that nature. So we have people follow the process of getting yourself out of debt and then building up an emergency fund and then investing that 15% to get compound interest jump started and to get that money growing for you. Because you just got out of 35% of your income getting involved in debt, you freed that up. So investing 15% still gives you more than enough money to be able to put toward paying

toward the house, but at the same time taking care of day-to-day life activities. And so mindset being this, people who get themselves out of debt and they start investing, when they get super serious, they'll start finding ways to attack the house faster, right, and getting themselves, getting their life situated. The other thing is this, people tend to change houses as well throughout the process. Typically, people are in change houses as well throughout the process. Typically, people are in homes three to five years. So if you put off investing, let's say for two years while you were getting out of debt, and then you get serious about it, attacking the house, and then you move,

most of the time when you move, you're almost starting over because you've increased lifestyle and home. So the odds of moving typically would set people back if they weren't investing the 15% in the meantime. So that's kind of the logic behind it is to get compound interest working on your behalf, but at the same time, you work in for yourself by paying extra toward that mortgage month in and month out. It's psychological. So I love this question because I've asked this question in my own house is, is the benefit of being free and clear on my house a few years early, is that worth three or four years of not paying into my retirement? And you and I have talked offline.

You've explained to me that that might feel good in years three four and five but in years 25 26 27 that missed four five six seven years of compound interest looks awfully gnarly it's a game changer it's a game changer as far as how the interest starts to have interest right it's the compound growth factor and so getting people getting yourself out of debt here's the thing the recipe is not broke. Follow it. All right? Now, people will try to tweak it and add some stuff to it and all that, and then I slap

the hand and tell them, get that out of there. I'm going to put that thing in a recipe. It works. And that's what I tell people with the baby steps. But being intentional with baby step six and you attack it and throwing everything, but the kitchen sink at that house is a big deal. And I'm not saying you can't go take a vacation and you can't go do some stuff fun. You get me at the mindset.

And so it's a matter of looking at it and going, you know what? This 15-year fixed-rate mortgage, I'm going to delete this bad boy out of my life in seven to eight years. It can be done. What we have to do is be smart about it and just remain intentional about attacking that thing. Yeah. All right. Uh-oh. Let's see.

We got time. We can do another one. We're going to take Hayden. Hayden, what's your question for John and I? Hey, guys. How you doing? Doing well. How are you, sir?

Good. So I'm kind of the money guy in the family. So a little background. My dad passed away when I was 14. That was 13 years ago. Wow. Me and my mom were six kids from the ages of 15 down to three. Goodness gracious.

Fast forward 12 years. She's a saint. I was going to say, your mom's a rock star. Yeah. Yeah. The house that they built together burned down. Oh, man. How recently did that happen?

That was a year ago, Memorial Day. So she just barely moved in back in two weeks ago. It got done. It's all done. So she turns to me as the money guy and wants help because, honestly, she can't afford the house beforehand. So it's kind of a blessing in disguise. But as the insurance has been paying for all the things that she lost in the house, I've been taking all that money from her and putting it into an online savings account, just building

it up. So I've got about $180,000 in an online account for her. So if it was me, I know exactly what I would do. But doing it for her kind of makes me nervous. But my plan was to leave $30,000 in there for her emergency fund and throw $150,000 down on the house, kind of refinance it, and let her be able to pay it off in seven to ten years. Hayden, how much does she owe left on this home? She owes about $340,000. What is it worth?

It's worth, I would guess, about $500,000. Okay. And I'm going to ask you this question, and you're going to know your mom better than I. After the fire, you know, even before the fire, it could have been a different answer, but after the fire now and the rebuild, is she anywhere ready to let this thing go? She's not. I tried to convince her because I thing go? She's not. And that was the, I tried to convince her because I'm like, it's not the same house anymore, but it's my property.

It's on, it's on over an acre and she just doesn't want to lose the property. We tried to get them to build a smaller house, like, you know, kind of like car insurance where they pay out and you buy something new, but they don't do that. They had to build a similar house. Otherwise you don't get the full payout. Okay. I'll tell you what, my friend. We're going to go to a break.

I want you to hang on here, Hayden, because this is one of those scenarios where there's a lot of emotions, you've got a lot of numbers, but we also need to make some big decisions long-term for the sake of your mom. Hang tight. We'll come back and talk more. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. Hello, everyone. I'm Chris Hogan.

This is The Dave Ramsey Show. And co-hosting with me this hour is John Deloney. And before we went to break, we were talking to Hayden. And Hayden was letting us know that he has been guiding his mom. They had dealt with a house fire. He's been guiding her. He is the financial person in the family. And he has been setting aside money for his mom each month.

And now at the point of needing to make some decisions on direction of where to go. And Hayden, as you're looking at this, you've got this money set aside, but why is it you think your mom can't afford this home? So she's a schoolteacher. So they bought it on, that was an attorney. So obviously they purchased it with his income in mind. And so, you know, I mean, she does get retirement money from his public employee retirement. Right.

So, I mean, that's how she's making the payment. But I'm like, she's never going to pay this thing up. But now with the insurance money, I'm like, mom, if you really want to keep the house, you've got, like, we've got to have a plan to pay it off. So now with this extra money, we can get her on a seven to 10 year plan to pay it off. She's 52, 53. And then she can retire when she's 62, 63, 65, somewhere in there. Right.

What I'm struggling with is what if she changes her mind, ends up wanting to sell the house. Right. I mean, I guess I wouldn't matter because we get the equity out, but you know, if it was me, I'd pay off the house and I just don't want to make a bad decision. You know, maybe we should invest that money until a few years go by.

But, I mean, it's only been 12, 13 years, and she's not wanting to give up the house and the property. She likes the community. Right. Hey, Hayden, how old are you? She likes having all the room. How old are you? 27. You got the wisdom of an old soul, my friend.

You are feeling – no, I'm going to be honest with you. You're feeling like that parental kind of responsibility for your mom because you want to protect her and you want to, you know. So I would say don't try to presume what she might do in the future. Let's get a plan in place and paint the picture for her so she sees a version of the future and she can buy into it. That's exactly right. So, yeah, Hayden, I don't have any problem with you.

I think your recommendation to put out a seven- to ten-year plan where she pays this off. You had a tragedy where a home that she's – that home, and I hate to say it like this, that home's a part of her soul. That's where her husband was. It still is a box of sticks, but like she said, that dirt has got her blood in it. And trying to talk your mom out of that house, I think, is just going to drive a wedge between you two.

I don't have any problem with her paying it off. I don't either. What I want to recommend you do is I want to recommend you, as best you can, go back to being son. Get with a smart, best, or pro. Get with somebody who can be her financial person. And go back to being her son, her cheerleader. Let her love on you.

Once you start getting into the advice column, then there's going to be a weird dip in the market or the housing market's going to go down or something. And then all eyes are going to be on you, and you're going to feel guilty. She's going to feel upset with her son over a money decision. So I'm all about helping my mom. I know you're, as Chris said, you are so far ahead in your years in wisdom and kindness. But sometimes getting a professional in the middle there, when you were a young kid,

which for us old guys you are, go back to being her son and get a professional involved too but i don't got any problem with you paying putting that money down pay off the house soon get her out of debt and she's 60 years old got a paid off house no you're absolutely right and that gives her a foundation and a clear game plan now listen i know things have been rough this year and people maybe even with the emergency fund it might be low but I want you to hear me loud and clear. No matter what's going on financially, do not cash out your 401k. Now, I know the government passed a stimulus bill earlier this year that lowered the 401k early withdrawal penalties, but I'm going to tell you, do not take the bait and start cashing this out.

Your 401k is not there for emergencies. It's not there for you to pay off debt. It's not even there to help you send kids to school. It's there for one reason and one reason only, and that's for your future. We're talking about your retirement. So the only time, I want to be clear with this, the only time you should consider a withdrawal to your 401k is two reasons, to avoid a bankruptcy or to avoid a foreclosure. Those are the only two times. And so you've got to be aware and be very smart. So tighten down your budget. Be aware of exactly where you are in your baby steps.

But remain crystal clear. You've got to take care of the four walls. You've got to take care of yourself and your family. Take on a part-time job if you have to. Sell some stuff. But definitely don't reach into your future to try to clean up your present. That money is there.

It's intentional and it's there for you to grow. Now, if you've already taken money out, I know some of you might be just looking at the radio right now going, Hogan, already? All right, if you've done that, I want you to say, never again will you do that. You're not going to go back to that. We don't want that to be your bailout. We want you to have a game plan. So it's not too late for you to change your future. Go to DaveRamsey.com slash SmartVestor. Again, that's DaveRamsey.com slash SmartVestor, and we'll be

able to help you find a financial advisor in your area where you can start to get guidance and gain clarity. We got too much at stake, my friends, for our future. To leave stuff to chance or to hope and to wish, what we have to do is to know. So thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you for that opportunity, Hayden, to be able to help everyone else out there know, what do I do? If I'm concerned about my mom or concerned about my grandparents, point them in the direction of a smart investor so they can sit down and have a conversation. It doesn't put you awkwardly in the middle. What it does is puts you at the position of being a guide and pointing people in the right direction. So, all right, let's get to line three.

Let's see here. We've got Anita on the line. Anita, how are you? I'm doing well, thank you. How can we help you today? I'm stuck on baby step four and don't know what to do about baby step five okay

what I mean by that is I I put some money I put 10% in TSP and then I opened up the Roth IRA with my bank and then I learned out later that wasn't a good thing to do

and I didn't know how to do something different with the money at the bank who told you it wasn't a good thing to do, and I didn't know how to do something different with the money at the bank. Who told you it wasn't a good idea to open the Roth? No, not to open the Roth, but I thought I read what they said not to do with the bank. Oh, oh, okay. Yeah, and here's the thing, Anita, with that. I would encourage you to get with a smart investor pro just because you're dealing with

someone that's an investment professional. Having been in the banking industry, typically banks have what I call proprietary things, which means it's their product. And so it's kind of built and designed and connected to them. You want to deal with independent people that are firmly kind of rooted and can give you more options than maybe just what your bank would do. So here's what you do. You get connected to a SmartVestor Pro. Go to DaveRamsey.com and get connected. Look on there for the SmartVestor Pro.

Put in your zip code. Take all the paperwork you have from the bank with you and sit down and talk to the SmartVestor Pro, or you can email it to them. You can scan it in. They can review it, and they'll be able to give you some guidance on that. Don't feel like you're stuck, though. And, Anita, that's why I'm glad you called in.

A lot of people have taken steps and they think, oh, my gosh, I can't undo this. This is where I'm at. No, no, no. A SmartVestor Pro will be able to guide you to show you what you need to change if you want to change it or how you can redirect it. The good thing is is that you've invested the money. It's after tax because it says Roth. That's why I get tinglys when I say Roth.

It just makes my heart happy. But you've got an opportunity for that money to continue to grow. Thank you. Thank you very, very much for your call. So for a layman like me, who's not very smart, when you say a bank's got a product, the image I have in my head is I go to a Ford dealership and I say,

I need, like I just drive by the lot and I pull in, I say, I need the best car I could possibly get for 10 grand. Right. And they're going to turn around

and look at their lot and say, Of Ford's. Of Ford's and say, we got some cars over in those two aisles that fit that model right what you're saying is an svp is going to say i'm going to look at every car in nashville i'm going to find you the one that fits best for you not just what i'm trying to get rid of on my lot that's exactly right that's a great analogy so they've just got packages that in the end

benefit them which is i can sit in a bad thing, but that's not going to give me the full picture of what's out there. And it helps her to know that, hey, I'm not just dealing with this bank that's offering me what they have. I'm dealing with someone that's connected on the investing side that lets me know all the things that are out there. I love it. I tell people the stock market's a lot like a supermarket, John. There are things in the stock market that are good for you. There are some things that are risky, just like in a grocery store or a supermarket. So you need to know what it is you're dealing with and how it's going to help you in your future.

There it is, people. All you've got to do is trust the process to get the right people in your corner. Stay tuned. We're coming back. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. so so Welcome back, everyone. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. I'm Chris Hogan, and co-hosting with me this hour is John Deloney. This question is going to come from Blinds.com.

Find out for yourself why Blinds.com is the number one online retailer of custom window covering. You get free samples. you get free shipping, and with the new promos they run every month, you'll save even more. Use the promo code RAMSEY to get the best deal. Rules and restrictions apply. Okay, John, talk to us about the question of the day from Blinds.com. All right, today's question comes from Georgia in Pennsylvania.

She visits DaveRamsey.com to ask, Hi, I'm primarily a stay-at-home mom to our three children. I'm planning for the worst in case my husband of 12 years and I may divorce in the next couple of years. Our prenup specifically states I will only receive alimony for one year totaling $60,000 in an event that I would otherwise be on welfare. I occasionally earn discretionary money via part-time side hustle work. I've saved about $73,000 in cash, 10K in NASDAQ, 500 bucks in EFT, and $1,300 in crypto. I have no debt. What can I do with my savings listed above to put myself in a better position in the

next couple of years wow it's a lot it is a lot going on yes so i'll first start i'll first answer this question this way this is going to be hard to to to hear over the the inner over the radio if you're not looking at me and chris but we are neither of us are stay-at-home moms and so we're going to do the best we can to answer this question understanding that this isn't a lived experience for both of us. And so I'm going to say, number one, I think this question points to the economic insecurity that a number of women feel that are stay-at-home moms and have that churning anxiety underneath their heart with their little kids, and they've got pren prenups and they've clearly got concerns about their marriage.

So the first thing I'm going to ask if, if, um, she was sitting here is why are you already planning for the demise of your marriage in a few years? Um, I want to see somebody in this situation, double down,

triple down, quadruple down one year out, two year out, three year out, save your marriage, save that commitment you got three little kids in that house you owe it to them you owe it to yourself you owe it to your husband to do whatever you can possibly do to protect and save this marriage number two um i don't like this idea of two pots of money i don't like i earn this is my money and i've got a secret stash

of seventy five thousand dollars over here to try to protect myself because it sounds like i'm already got one foot out the door just in case and that's that's a surefire way to the just in case is going to happen right if you're already in the middle of a relationship planning your exit strategy you're going to have to use it so this is a conversation i'd love to have them to have together on what's tomorrow going to look like my guess is um there's something in her ecosystem here that lets her know hey things aren't good on the home front yeah no i agree with you and i think on the financial side of this you're debt debt-free. You've got, Georgia, you've got $73,000 saved. The money you have in the NASDAQ, the 500 you have in the EFT, and the 1,300 in crypto, I'm going to put that in

gross stock mutual funds. I'm going to dissolve that, put that in something longer-term strategy. Don't even get me started on crypto. Okay, I go to my website, ChrisHogan360.com. I do rants on that stuff. But you want to be on a firm financial footing. And so you want to remain debt-free. You want this money saved. If in the event, because let's be honest, it takes two to tango in a marriage. And two wounded people don't make a marriage, that makes a hospital. And so what you need is to be clear. And if you do move forward, what you want to do is to find a safe place to rent. I would not run out and try to hurry up and buy and begin to solidify yourself inside of the job market of your working and your side hustle and begin to think forward.

But I would do that in the connection with the church. I would definitely get connected with a therapist, a counselor, and be able to talk this out. But as John said, you definitely want to plug in and try to work it out as best you can. Put all the cards on the table, and then let's figure out what the direction is from there. Boy, that's tough, man. That's a lot, man. I don't know anybody who's been married for 12 years that hasn't had those moments right when you think is this it right um is is if i look two or three years down the road and things continue on their current track i see i see where

the trainers are gonna crash together i see i see a train wreck coming and man um i i've been married to the same one for a long time and we've had all our ups and downs and sideways and moves and at some point you're right it takes two people to say you know what let's don't do let's let's double down on each other yeah we've invested in each other let's make this thing work but i also man i've just heard from woman after woman after woman over the years about the insecurity they feel when i'm not i've got very little financial stability here my husband holds all the cards. Yeah. And man, that power dynamic and that power shift is really heavy. Yeah, no, it's absolutely true. And being able to talk about that stuff and it's important as well. You know, John, I was thinking earlier,

I was talking to a friend of mine who's going through a tough time, but you know, in this period of time where people aren't working or they're spending a lot of time at home yeah um if you don't have a solid foundation uh if you don't have that friendship and that connection this coronavirus will end you can cause more stress and strain because you have to be home that's right right you don't have a place to escape what's your advice for people that are feeling that tension going look i need need to not see you as much. You know what I mean? I mean, what are you telling people? So there's an extraordinary therapist named Terry Real, and he was the first guy that opened my eyes to this notion that drug addiction, sex addiction, alcohol addiction, work addiction,

fantasy sports addiction, it's all the same chemicals. It's all the same distractions. It's all the same hiding. It's all the same chemicals it's all the same distractions all the same hiding it's all the same running guys who spend every extra second on the golf course guys who spend every extra second in the woods women who spend every second on pinterest whatever the thing is right it's all hiding and what covet has done for a lot of us is it says your butt will be at home and you will stare at each other. Right. And so there's been nowhere to hide. And so I'm seeing couples have to make two decisions, one or the other. We're going to have to start at ground zero and relearn how to be friends, relearn how to find that spark that brought us together in the first place.

Because we've we're now realizing it happens a lot chris to um empty nesters who folks who drop their last kid off at college and on the way home they look at each other like who are you right yeah and so that happened here at covet yeah and um guys being at work too long couldn't do that anymore and mom's trying to hide over here and we're just gonna just stick a screen in front of the kids for four hours every day and just numb them away from us that's not working anymore and so couples are going to have to decide is this what we want to do are we in are we out that's right that's it are we in are we out right and we're watching divorces it's breaking my heart their divorce is spiking all over the world

um and the other side of that is is i've got some friends whose relationships are getting deeper and tighter and more connected because they've had to plan for the first time in a decade. They've had to sit down and say, how can I best honor you today? Because that's the only way we're going to get through today. And then all of a sudden they look up and four months later and they are tighter knit. They're a chain now, man. They're not just two parallel pieces of string. See, that's good to hear because we do have the choice.

It's a decision. It is the choice. It's a decision. It is a decision. It's a decision. And you get a chance to wake up and you get a chance to make it that, hey, you know what? I want to be clear and push forward. Or you know what? We're not. Coach told me you're either getting better or you're getting worse.

Nothing stays the same. And you think about that. Nothing stays the same. And a lot of people will tell you, man, I just wish we could just get right back to the, no, no, no, strive for better. It's available. It's available. Yeah. We just have to make those decisions.

And it's hard when the person across the table from you says, I'm not striving. That's real hard. Yeah, it is. You know what? And then you've got three little kids running around here. And then you've got a piece of paper that you all signed that says, I already have a dollar amount on what you're walking out the door with right so we've already planned your exit if it ever comes to that that's a lot to carry around in your heart and soul man it really is so john your advice for people out there um they need

to go talk to someone don't they need to get connected to a therapist man every therapist i know has put their practice online um i had a great conversation with my old dissertation chair, Dr. Hendricks, who is a big influence in my life. And he told me he had to switch to online. This is a 50-, 60-year-old man who had to switch his counseling online. And he said, it's been incredible. He said things are never going to be the same when it comes to therapy and counseling. It's been remarkable. No, you're absolutely right.

Things have changed. And what we have to do is learn to adapt and change along with them. Well, listen, I want to thank James Childs, our producer. I want to thank Zach Bennett, associate producer, and I want to thank all of you all for tuning in. Thank you for calling in, and John, thank you very much, buddy. This was fun. Have a great, great afternoon, good man.

Absolutely, you all. Stay tuned. We're coming back. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. This is James Childs, producer of The Dave Ramsey Show. You can listen to Dave, Rachel Cruz, Chris Hogan, or the rest of the Ramsey Network anywhere with the Ramsey Network app on your smartphone. Catch all of our full shows, browse by topic or send clips to your friends. Head to the app store and download the Ramsey Network app.