The Ramsey Show - App - My Family Is Pressuring Me to Stay in Our Expensive House (Hour 2)

Episode Date: November 10, 2020

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. Chris Hogan, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Raden is in New York. Hi, Raden.

How are you? Good. Thank you so much for taking my call. Sure. How can we help? All righty. So I have $10,000 in student loan debt going into my junior year of college. I found your show four months ago, and I'm halfway through Chris's book righty. So I have $10,000 in student loan debt going into my junior year of college. I found your show four months ago and I'm halfway through Chris's book right now. I'm trying to get

out of debt and change my future since I found you guys. So I started a plumbing business two months ago and I'm making more money than I ever have in my life. So my question is, should I take a year or a semester off of college and focus on crushing out my current debt or should I go into my next year of college paying out of pocket and then slowly chipping away at my existing debt as I go? B. Okay. Easy enough. Let me think through this, okay? How much money are you making you should you're making more money than you've ever made in your life yeah so my first year i brought in my first month two months ago i made three thousand last month i made around five thousand and this month

i'm projected to make even more good for you way to go man i'm proud of you yes thank you so i mean chris do you see i mean, I think you can get through college, and then you'll be able to knock. If you haven't knocked the 10 out by the time you get through college, cash flow college is job one. Yep. Then job two is knock off the 10 as fast as you can. But, dude, what are you studying in school?

Global supply chain management. Ah, very good. Yeah, very good. Yeah, that degree is going to afford you a great income, even better than you're making now, or it should anyway. Most of the

undergrads are coming out in the $80,000 range that I've seen lately doing that. Yeah, I mean, that's pretty strong. Yeah, I like this rate, and I like that plan, Plan B, because it will. You're going to be able to knock out that student loan debt at the rate you're going. But as Dave was saying, job one is to cash flow and make sure you're able to take care of school,

and then everything else is going toward that debt. You're going to have that thing gone here in another matter of months. Way to go. Yeah. You've got to feel like you've got this thing by the tail, man. Good job. Thank you so much, guys. I really appreciate the wisdom. Thank you so much. You got to feel like you got this thing by the tail, man. Good job. Thank you so much, guys. I really appreciate the wisdom.

Thank you so much. You're very welcome. Just avoid the $80,000 truck that you'll start to rationalize in your mind to carry your plumbing equipment. Right? So just don't go that route. Right? Like, keep thinking differently and remain aware, Radon. There's a system out there to try

to get as much money from you as possible and as soon as you let your guard down that's when it creeps up so keep your guard up stay aware of my friend and keep working the plan soraya is with us in new york hi soraya how are you good thanks dave for taking my call thanks to you and chris i am calling because um part of my compensation package that my company gives me they give me restricted stock which I can't touch for three years and now some of that unrestricted stock has become unrestricted and I'm just wondering what I should do or could do with it. Well you can sell it if you want to. What stage of the Baby Steps are you in? How are you doing? I am on Baby Step 2,

and I will be completely debt-free next month with the exception of my house. Great. And how much unrestricted stock value do you have if you sold all your unrestricted stock? A little bit over $4,000. Oh, I'd sell it. Yeah, for sure. Mm-hmm.

Okay. Put it in your emergency fund. Finish up your debt, and then start your Baby step three, right? Yep. Yeah. I mean, it's just sitting there and you can get, you can turn it into money. It was, it was compensation is what it was, right?

Yes. Yeah. And so you worked X number of time. It became unrestricted, which then gives you access to it. You have every right. That has nothing to say about what you feel about your employer by you selling it or any of this stuff. This is money that's sitting there and available for you. So use it to your advantage, young lady.

Good call. Good question. So the beginning of the year, house prices, I don't know what they're going to do in this upcoming year. It's going to be absolutely crazy. If your plans got sidetracked last year and you're thinking about home ownership or maybe you're thinking about selling and you got sidetracked by the old pandemic wolf he's out there huffing and puffing you might want to start as you're remaking your decision whether to kick back in at the first of the year or not you might want to start with a good solid real estate agent and not everyone that has a real estate license

knows what they're doing as a matter of fact a matter of fact, most of them don't. Most of them don't. About 80% of them are donut eaters. They sit in the office and eat donuts. And they don't, you know, seriously, it is truly a Pareto principle. 80% of them make 20% of the sales. 20% of them make 80% of the sales. And of the 20% that make 80% of the sales, 20% of those make 80% the sales and of the 20 that make 80 of the sales 20 of those make 80

of those sales wow i mean it really is you know the the cream does come to the top pretty quick here we have researched and worked with only high quality high octane high protein real estate agents for many years and we've allowed them to become endorsed local providers, people that we endorse for your next home purchase or your next home sale. And these are the best of the best. High octane, high volume. They know what they're doing. They're actually selling houses. They didn't just get their license and wish they did.

They actually do it. So text the word house to 33789. House to 33789. And Chris, I think that because, not because of the pandemic, but because of the shutdowns associated with the pandemic and the draconian rules in some of these states, we are seeing people leave California and New York by the droves. We really are. And it's going to create, it's creating a high demand market in some other areas. So real estate's heating up in some other areas. And eventually, you're going to have a cool down in some of these areas where they're

leaving. We haven't seen it yet. Right. We have not seen California house prices drop yet. We've not seen New York house prices drop yet, but we will. If you keep stopping the supply-demand curve, you keep screwing around with it, there's going to be a lot more supply than there is demand. Either way, whether you're navigating a potentially slowing market or a market that's heating up, you need a pro. Yeah, it's too much at risk and too much at stake. I was talking to a friend out of New York, and he said the rents are starting to even come down.

Yep. And the upscale living apartments and condos and all that are becoming more and more empty. People are leaving. So the first thing that comes is the rents, and then the values will come down after that. Yep. So this is something you've worked too hard. You don't want to leave it to chance. You want to deal with someone that knows that market inside and out and can properly guide you, whether you're

selling or relocating. And so you're going to be in phenomenal hands talking with one of our real estate ELPs. And, you know, I had a guy call on the air yesterday when John Deloney and I were on together and said that his wife's uncle was selling the house they were living in in phoenix because he thinks since biden got elected that the economy is going to crash right after the first of the year and in phoenix arizona and i'm like listen dude you have post election stress disorder yeah you you have a mental illness here you need to take a nap yeah that's not well and besides that you maybe in some areas, but is the entire economy going to crash in January? No.

Come on. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. As we continue to face challenging times, I hear that a lot of you have been calling Zander Insurance to see if term life insurance plans are still available. The good news is the insurance companies are starting to loosen up the restrictions that they had put in place at the start of the pandemic, making coverage available to even more people. So, if you haven't dealt with this yet, I'm not sure what you're waiting for.

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Zander's team will get you the affordable coverage to give your family the peace of mind they deserve. our question today comes from blinds.com find out for yourself why blinds.com is the number one online retailer of custom window coverings you get free samples free shipping and with the new promos they run every month you'll save even more more. Use the promo code RAMSY to get the best deal. So today's question comes from Angela in Wisconsin. She says, my job was recently eliminated. I was vested in the company pension plan. I received a mailing from the pension group with info about my benefits.

My options are $700 a month starting at age 65 or a $25,000 lump sum payout now. I have been told I wouldn't be able to grow $25,000 into what I would need to make $700 monthly at retirement, so I should leave the pension alone. Wondering your thoughts on this? Well, Angela, here's the deal. First and foremost, I don't have your age on here, so I don't know. But it seems like someone's making a reach and assuming, and you know what happens when you assume, that you couldn't grow this $25,000 in a lump to become much more than what it is. So I'm a fan of the lump sum payment. I think it'll give you an opportunity to grow because you're going to have better investing options than just what's inside that pension.

Yeah, you take it and you roll it over in a direct transfer rollover into an IRA, place it in good growth stock mutual funds that have a 10-year track record or more. We suggest, and I personally do this, Chris personally does this, spreading it across four types, growth, growth and income, aggressive growth, and international. If you need someone to help you do that, sit down with one of the SmartVestor pros by clicking SmartVestor at DaveRamsey.com. Now, whoever is telling you this, Chris is exactly right. Their math is wrong. Here's how I know their math is wrong, even though I don't know their age. Pensions are highly regulated. They are not allowed to invest aggressively at all. And so a pension rate of return is always set at around 6% or 7%. Your $25,000 will grow to enough at 6% or 7% to create $700 if it stays in the pension. We know that.

Otherwise, they wouldn't give you these numbers. That's true. Okay. that it wouldn't give you these numbers. That's true. Okay, and if it will grow to enough to create $700 at 6% or 7%, the regulated amount that you're going to find in almost every pension, then we are very sure that if it does better than 6% or 7%, you're going to have more than $700. And so I think whoever told you this is making some different assumptions or possibly just doesn't know what the crap they're talking about.

Edna is with us in Virginia Beach. Hi, Edna. How are you? Good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? I'm a new listener, brand new to the baby step.

I'm kind of jumping ahead here thinking about step two. And just from listening, I know that consolidation company programs are a no-go. I unfortunately went through one of those. I'm done with it. However, when it comes to the debt that I already have, should I go back and add those consolidations that i've settled with the other banks no they're settled they're done okay so the consolidation company played all the way through and every loan that was in that program is now settled is that what you're telling me that's correct yes okay yeah yeah you just leave that alone that's over that's in your past it was settled it's just they're done they're settled you don't know you don't have a debt anymore

i have my current no i mean you don't have any debt with those people anymore so you just have a traditional baby step two left then which is just your debt snowball yeah yeah and edna just stay focused so how much do you have left, young lady? For my current debt? Yes, ma'am. $16,500 and most of it is my car. Okay. Good, good. Yeah, so that's where you stay focused on right now. And just remember, when you're trying to get out of debt, don't add any, right?

Like, don't go looking at another car. Don't do anything that's going to move you backwards. And I say that tongue in cheek, but I'm being very serious because you can so easily catch yourself getting into a deserved mentality, especially as we get ready to come into these holidays. If you've been making some sacrifices and cutting back, you'll start to feel like that, hey, woe is me. And no, no, no, no. You just want to stay clear and stay focused on what you're chasing down you know you brought that up a couple times today and it bears repeating mathematically speaking the hardest and the most important step to getting out of debt is to simply stop borrowing

because if you stop borrowing and you pay your payments, eventually, even if you don't pay extra, eventually you'll be debt-free. That's right. Now, you're not gazelle intense. You're not making super progress. It's not super fun. But, I mean, if you just pay your house payment, eventually it pays off. If you pay your car payment, eventually it pays off. Even your stupid credit card, if you just pay the payment,

it has some principle in there, eventually, 42 years from now, it will pay off. So if you just pay your payments and stop borrowing, you just tilted the table in your direction. You sure did. And then from there, you start piling some more wood on the fire, and you start attacking that debt, using the debt snowball and picking up extra jobs and selling so much stuff the kids think they're next. Then you can really get the thing moving. You start to get that jobs and selling so much stuff the kids think they're next. Then you can really get the thing moving.

You start to get that look in your eye. But, you know, the problem is, you're right, the holidays come around, Christmas is here, and it snuck up on somebody. Yep. Oh, God, it's in December this year. Yeah. Who knew? And, you know, and you drive by the car lot and there's that little reflection off of that shine catches your eye wait you're talking about my head or the car no the car okay i wasn't looking at your head all right it's just the the shine off that car catches your eye that gleam it is kind of like your head though

and uh now that you mention it i don't know anybody like that. But it does. And that day, you know, something something shiny. And, you know, what it is, is I get this way. I'm this way with the chocolate donut. I deserve it. I've worked really hard today. Our Melissa's over there in the dadgum Ramsey kitchen cooking those homemade chocolate chip cookies. They're of the devil.

Yes. And she's not, but they are. And you smell that smell when I come out of the studio. And I deserve one of those cookies. Yeah. You know? And we do this with everything. But you know what that is?

That's a little kid inside of every one of us. And it's still there. Because children do what feels good. Yeah. Adults devise a plan and follow it yeah and you're you're exactly right you can just fall back into an entitled mentality well you know i didn't think about christmas it snuck up on me i didn't you know i didn't think that car was going to jump out there well and think about it this year if you're not able to see family because you haven't seen them as much, you're

thinking, I'm going to make this the best Christmas ever. And then what happens? You overextend yourself. A little emotion goes in there. You got the emotion. Or you got some guilt or shame because you haven't been able to see them. I want people to just reset, take a clear breath. And this is a year to make Christmas be a little bit different.

You know, let's be smart and let's be more focused on the budget more than ever, and give yourself a leg up to start 2021 on the good foot, not the dead foot. Hey, you know what? Let's give them some money. We have the Ramsey Christmas giveaway. We're giving away $500 a week. That's true. That's not bad.

You can go to DaveRamsey.com slash giveaway. No purchase necessary. You can register every day, and we're going to give away $500 a week. And we're going to win. We're going to give away a grand prize of $5,000 as well. DaveRamsey.com slash giveaway. And while you're there, if you want to see that shine, you can see Chris's head on his book. And it's the Everyday Millionaire's number one bestselling book.

It's right there for $10. And there's a shine right there.. It's right there for $10. Yep. And there's a shine right there. I see it right there on the cover. That coming off those gleaming white teeth. And Photoshop's wonderful. Easy. And all our books are on sale for $10 at DaveRamsey.com.

So you can go over there and check all of that stuff out. And the Total Money Makeover just got word the other day we sold our 8th millionth copy. Wow. And so pretty crazy. You can get it for $10. Any of Chris's number one selling books or any of Rachel's, any of Deloney's new Quick Read is $10. Redefining Anxiety came out this week. And, of course, Rachel's two bestsellers, Coleman's bestseller, Anthony's bestsellers, they're all bestsellers, they're all $10.

And while you're there, be sure you register for the $500 giveaway. And you can register once a day. DaveRamsey.com slash giveaway. Thank you. Chris Hogan Ramsey personality is my co-host here on the show today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Matt is with us in Phoenix. Hey, Matt, how are you? Great. How are you doing today, Dave? Better than I deserve. What's up?

So I have been following the baby steps for a few years now, me and my wife, probably about five. And I'm actually a big advocate. I love what you preach. And I probably got a half dozen over the years, about a half dozen clients that I've kind of deferred your guys' way. So I never really thought I'd find myself in this situation. Uh, basically my wife and I thought we were, um, going to pay off our house. Um, and that's kind of where we're at. We don't have any debt. All our cars are free and clear and we don't carry credit card debt. And, uh, we had this opportunity come up this year, uh, very niche real estate opportunity where basically we got into these buy and hold rental properties.

And we were using our primary house. We did, I'm sure you're familiar with the product, the all-in-one mortgage. It's basically a line of credit that's taxed as a first mortgage with a checking component built into it. And so anyways, we bought four investment properties this year on a whim because they cash flowed really well. We did 15% down loans, no MI or PMI. And basically the mortgage payments are between $800 to $1,000 a piece, and they cash flow about $4,000 a month. Well, their gross is $4,000, so they cash flow about $3,000. And we bought four of these, and obviously it's been great for us. It's really kind of accelerated our debt payoff.

Instead of looking to have our primary house paid off in 2022, we're probably going to get paid off sometime next year in 2021. The thing that we're running into is, as we did this, because we've always kind of followed the, you know, not leveraging approach, I think my wife and I have both kind of gotten nervous that we've pulled out, yeah, about $600,000 in mortgage debt between the four houses, even though they're cash flowing really well. And the opportunity, basically none of these houses have any vacancy. And we're getting pressured to get even more because we literally have a waiting list of tenants that want to move in because of the kind of niche opportunity it is. So my question

to you is, if we can still get our primary house paid off next year and continue to grow into these other, you know, buy and hold properties. Do you think this is a bad, like, do you think we're, is this a formula for misfortune that we keep, you know, snagging some of these with the cash flow being as good as they are? I'm a little confused. Or do you think we can pause and start paying us off? I'm a little confused. I thought you started this call with how you had listened to us and followed us for years. Yeah, I had.

Yeah, I had. Okay. Then you know the answer to the question. If you've listened to me and followed me for years, you've never heard me tell people to do what you're doing. That's true. Okay. That's true. And I certainly wouldn't tell you to do more of what you're doing.

Right. Yeah, you followed the plan until you stopped following the plan. Exactly, exactly. And so that's just kind of like it's basically come into another source of income for us. Hey, listen. I don't know. Listen, listen. Go ahead.

I have a source of income, too. Several hundred million dollars I've paid for real estate that never had a mortgage on it once. And I did not use leverage to build it. I used cash to build it. Matt, you're going to get in trouble because you have not factored risk into this scenario. And leverage is a two-edged sword. It cuts both ways. You have just continued to say things all through this conversation that indicates you have no measure of risk whatsoever in this. Okay, Dave, you own more real estate than anybody else I know. I want you to hear these phrases. Niche real estate. Niche.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Hold on. Bought four properties on a whim and was being pressured to buy more. What are we doing here? It sounds like late night real estate, get rich quick scheme, 103. It's a bad plan and it's got headache and heartache written all over it down the road here in just a few years my friend and the other thing is after talking to you for

four minutes or listening to you talk for four minutes nothing where you say is going to change it nope suzy's in fort wayne indiana hi suzy how are you suzy i'm good how are you great how can we help good um i had a question so my husband and i are looking at possibly selling our home and the reason that we want to sell it is because it's a really big payment it takes up 42 of our income and even once we're debt free it's just that percentage keeps me up at night and i know you guys pound into everybody's heads, you know, 15-year mortgage, 25% of your income. And I just, we're getting pressured by our family to stay in this house. Are they paying the payments? No, they're not.

Then they don't get a vote. Tell them to hush. Yeah. Get Muslim. I just wanted to know if that was wise because I'm looking at rentals that are about $800 a month versus our $1,800 a month mortgage payment. And it just, it seems like a good idea to me, but I just wanted to know if that was like a Dave approved idea because I'm really trying to do things the right way. Is your income going to go up enough soon enough that you're not going to be strangled by the

house? No, honestly, I don't see that happening. And that's what scares me. And your relatives are well-meaning, but they have no idea about your personal life, and it's none of their dadgum business. Yeah. Yeah, that's what we were thinking. Is your husband on board with this, Susie? He is. This keeps us up at night.

Yeah, you two are the only ones who have a vote. Yeah. I don't even have a vote because I'm not paying the payment. Now, what would i do if i woke up in your shoes listen the whole thing is it's keeping you up at night that's the reason it's keeping you up at night is it's taking a big chunk of your life yep to just just to own this house and you've determined it's not worth it now should you maybe buy another house instead of rent maybe and that's why we don't qualify.

We're just not in a position to be able to buy because that was our initial plan, and that is not going to work out. Why don't you qualify? Because my husband lost his job last year when I was pregnant. I was nine months pregnant, and he came home and told me he lost his job. And that's actually how we came to Financial Peace because we were like, we can't do this anymore. We're not living like this anymore.

So at his other job, did he make enough that this wasn't 42%? He did. He took about an $800 to $1,000 pay cut. Why? Because he wasn't able to find something. What did he do before? He was a machine operator so he he's done different like cnc type machining jobs you don't think he can get an income get his income

back up to that then um he could he actually right now he stays home monday through thursday with our kids and so it's saving us a lot on child care um who's working up having to pay child care okay we both are he works friday going to end up having to pay child care. Okay. We both are. He works Friday through Sunday, and I work Monday through Friday. But we're both working. And so back when he had this primary machining job, you were at home?

Actually, he worked in the evening. Oh, okay. Yeah, he watched the kids during the day, and he would go to work at night. So we didn't see each other much, but we were making really good money at that time. Yeah, he watched the kids during the day, and he would go to work at night. So we didn't see each other much, but we were making really good money at that time. Yeah, okay. If he can get his income back up, that changes the answer. I asked you that earlier. If he can't get his income back up, then you may want to make the move.

Yeah. That's what this comes down to. He's looking at taking a second job. He's open to that. I don't want to taking a second job. He's open to that. I don't want to work a second job in order to keep a house. That means you're going to be doing it for the rest of your life. I don't want to do that. That's not what I'm talking about.

I'm saying he took a step down in income because he needed work. Yeah. But now if he can take that step back up in income, and he's qualified and should be making that other income then at his old job then the idea yeah yeah yeah yeah that's a good point i haven't i haven't quite if you want to do that and you want to keep the house that changes the equation and so but um relatives are well-meaning but they don't get a vote unless they're paying the payments, and if they're paying the payments, there's other problems. That's so true, Dave.

This is The Dave Ramsey Show. Thank you. Chris Hogan Ramsey personality is my co-host today here on the air. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Alicia is with us in Indianapolis. Hi, Alicia. How are you? I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve.

What's up? Okay. So I know consolidated loans are just piling stupid on top of stupid. I totally get that. I understand that. But I need you to hear me out because my teeth hurt. Because what? What hurts?

My teeth hurt. Your tooth hurts my tooth hurt your tooth i have some yes i have some dental problems that my insurance will not cover and there is this company who is talking about consolidating the remaining of our 25 000 credit card debt and they would throw in an extra 10 000 and it would instead of being 600 that we're paying minimum payments for credit card, it would be $140-something. My question is, if I go ahead and do this, which I can then use the $10,000 to fix my teeth, and then instead of paying the $140 they're offering, I continue paying the $600 and somebody actually continues paying what I'm paying, which is closer to $800,

would that make sense? I know consulting is a little bit stupid, but it wouldn't extend my debt any further because I'm paying it faster is closer to $800. Would that make sense? I know people all day long are stupid, but I wouldn't extend my debt any further because I'm paying it faster than they expect me to. Depending on the interest rate, it did extend your debt by $10,000 further. You need $10,000 worth of dental work? I'll pull that tooth. It's like $75,000 will do it for ten dollars to fix every tooth in my i'm sorry it takes how long how much it's 7500 to fix every tooth in my mouth

and there's one particular one that hurts and the dentist won't touch it because my insurance won't cover it oh man i'm sorry one hurts but 7500 to fix all of them. Oh, yeah. I have some sort of a calcium thing. My teeth don't get the calcium they're supposed to get. I'm sorry. Let me stop a second. I'm just trying to understand. All right.

I'm really not trying to be smart. You have one tooth that's hurting. Why do you not remove that tooth? Well, the dentist doesn't want to remove that tooth until he can put some sort of a device in for a bridge and he won't put the device in for a bridge until he's done some deep cleaning or please cap these other two teeth and he won't cap those other two teeth until he does some sort of this cleaning thing where they have to put you out or something and it's like worse than a regular cleaning you need to go to a new dentist yes today you need to go to a new dentist. Yes. Today. You need to go to a new dentist.

You need to get some other opinions on this. I'm not a dental expert, okay? But here's the problem. You have a roof leak, and you just called me to buy a whole roof and finance it instead of just fixing the leak. And I don't know how to do that in your situation. Again, I'm not a dental expert. If I were in your shoes, I would get at least two other dentists to look at this situation and tell them I'm on a limited budget, I need a temporary fix

until I can save up the money for the permanent fix. Okay. I believe in dental work. Okay. And if, and if it is truly a $7,500 thing to be done, uh, we'll save up the money and we'll get there. And I believe in avoiding pain. I am, I mean, I'm a complete wuss when it comes to pain. And so I'm with you on this. I'm going to pay almost anything to not hurt because I'm a complete wuss. So I'm with you on all of this. However, this just sounds weird. Yeah, it does.

And it sounds like, too, Alicia, that the debt consolidation company, because you shared this information with them and they found showed you a way that emotionally they can, can quote unquote try to look like they're helping you. Here's the reality. Debt consolidation, it is a con. I mean, the way that they're able to lower your payment is they extend the length of time that you're in debt. That's the only way there's that mathematical wizardry. There's no. Yeah, but she's saying if she pays the same $600, it would be out. And if the interest rate is the same, other than the $10,000, you'd be out at exactly the same time.

If you kept the same payment, the same interest rate. Right. But that doesn't work because you're adding $10,000 to the balance. Okay. I'm not going to tell you to borrow the money. Okay. I'm going to tell you, when any time I'm making a decision and the only options in the decision suck, it means I need more options. You have one option with your dentist that sucks.

You have a tooth that hurts, and not doing something sucks as an idea. And you have this ridiculous idea to borrow $10,000 more. By the way, you only need $7,500. What are you doing with the other $2,500? Going to Cabo? So, you know, there's just, I think you're hurting, and I get that. But I'm going to go get two other dentists independently to look at this. And most people in dental practices do a great job. I endorse dentists in many cities around America on the local radio stations that we're on, and I do so proudly.

I also have had a few experiences with them where they're trying to sell me a Bentley, and I needed a Volkswagen. I actually did have this happen when I was broke. I had a toothache the year we filed bankruptcy, and I went to the dentist because I was hurting because I'm a wuss. I didn't have any money. I mean, I didn't know what I was going to do, And I went to the dentist because I was hurting because I'm a wuss. I didn't have any money. I mean, I didn't know what I was going to do, but I went in there. And the guy said, I need to do, this is 1988. I need to do $3,500 worth of work to your teeth or you're going to lose all of your teeth within five years.

I said, well, I'm going to lose all of my teeth within five years because I don't have $3,500. I can't borrow it. I'm just coming out of bankruptcy. And so I left. You know how much of that work I've had done? How much? None. Seriously?

30 years later, every tooth is still in my head. So the guy was a complete jacked up con. Wow. Now, I'm not saying hers is, and I'm not saying other dentists are. is still in my head. So the guy was a complete jacked-up con. Wow. Now, I'm not saying hers is, and I'm not saying other dentists are. Right. That did happen to me. And so I'm always, listen, anytime you're dealing with a professional situation like this, an attorney, a tax person, an investment person, a medical professional, you always get second opinions until you find

options that come out of a treatment plan that fits your life and your finances. And that's what you do because they're counting on sometimes your emotions and your pain. Absolutely. Just signing in. Just give it to me. I'll sign it. Whatever it is. Just give it to me.

Just make it stop. I'll just sign it. Right. is. Just give it to me. Just make it stop. I'll just sign it. Right. That's such good wisdom. Get a second or third opinion. Just slow down and make that call, Alicia. That's what I would do. I really would, too.

And get an opportunity to talk to someone and let them know what's going on. And all of the things he's suggesting may have to occur, but they might be able to occur at a different increments. That's right. Not all at once. Without the debt. That's right. And without the pain.

Yeah. That's what I'm challenging. It's not logical to me. So anyway, it might be wrong. I'm not a dental expert, and I really don't even know what I'm talking about. But I just have lived life a long time and um i usually smell fish when something's fishy yeah you still got all the same teeth every one of them that's impressive i've even got my wisdom teeth which makes no sense at all that they never even came out seriously it's crazy uh

yeah well so you know it just was wrong. I mean, you know, it just was wrong. And again, but I like that. Get a second or third opinion. And again, take notes while you're in there. Be aware. But that's so true. We get pain going on.

We can easily get emotional. I can. And imagine if you're in with a family member that you care about. It can be hard to recount some of the things that are told to you. So I had a kidney stone one time. I would have given somebody a house to get rid of. Now, I did have those when I was 10 and 11. Man, I'm telling you, your mind is in a fog.

No, I didn't forget those. I didn't miss when she said, my teeth hurt. Yeah. My tooth hurts. I'm tired. And she said it in a way that, like, it's been hurting a while, and I'm tired of it. And I understand that. I appreciate that. I appreciate that.

I'm sorry. Yeah, that's how I would do it if I were in your shoes. And if you find three people that tell you exactly the same thing, then you've got a different challenge. But usually I find I make better decisions the more options that I have. It's a decision-making tool. Gather lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of options, and the ones that suck will slide right over to the side, and the other ones will stand up right there, and you'll go, oh, one of those two is a really good idea.

That's right. But I often find if I have only bad options, I just don't have enough options. That's true. Go back and gather more. I like that. And that helps me with almost anything, especially things I don't know anything about. I'm having to learn something new about it, you know, and that's what I'm having to do if I'm in her shoes there. So, wow.

Hey, thank you for calling in. Chris Hogan, good hour. Thank you, sir. James Childs and Kelly Daniel in the booth. Great show. Great hour. That puts this hour of the Dave Ramsey Show in the books. This is James Childs, producer of The Dave Ramsey Show.

You can listen to Dave, Rachel Cruz, Chris Hogan, or the rest of the Ramsey Network anywhere with the Ramsey Network app on your smartphone. Catch all of our full shows, browse by topic, or send clips to your friends. Head to the App Store and download the Ramsey Network app today.