The Ramsey Show - App - My Fiancée Isn't on Board With the Baby Steps (Hour 3)

Episode Date: February 18, 2021

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live from the headquarters of ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's The Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Ken Coleman Ramsey, personality, is my co-host today as we talk about your career, your money, and your life. We're here to answer your questions.

That's what we do here. 888-825-5225. Sylvia is in San Diego. Hi, Sylvia. How are you? Hi, Dave. I'm okay. Good. What's up? Well, I'm 67 years old. My husband died about going on three years right now.

And I have a house in San Diego, and the value is like some 53 or 52 right now. I owe, I only owe 235,000 on it, which is not much, but not for me, it's a lot. And, um, but the payments are too high. And I, and I, uh, and, um, I think I have about four and a half years left to go to pay that off because it was a 15-year mortgage. And, gosh, what else do I tell you? And so in the house, what I've been doing for the last three years is I don't work. We had a family business that we had to close because my husband died, and so everything was just demolished, right? So then I started renting out my rooms, like one or two rooms that I was doing okay. And then my son built a little studio, so I've been renting that out.

And so then my son, who's got disabled, is living with me with my daughter-in-law and my grandson and she does not work why and and and and why why does she not work well i don't know but she doesn't feel good or now it's because of covid or whatever the deal is so and wait a minute. Stop me just a second because I think I'm beginning to see how this is unfolding. I'm getting electricity, water, the mortgage, Internet, everything, you know. How are you paying for all this? Did you have a nest egg? Well, I get about $14.87 from Social Security, from my husband's Social Security, because I only get half because I had to make that choice between no income and a security.

So I took that because it was three years ago and I was too young to get a Social Security. So then, and his was more. And then the other income, I got $250,000 from a term life policy, which I know wasn't a lot. We always had high-term policies, but because we got older, it started getting super expensive to pay for term. And so that was an issue. So you've been using some of that I only have $120,000 left. But I'm panicking because I don't know what to do because I'm emotionally attached to the house. I still have all my husband's stuff in the room, in the closet.

You know, it's a big house. It's about 2,500 square feet. What is the, what's the nature of your son's disability? He has, like, cancer-type nature that's ongoing stuff. He has cancer? And so I took him in for a year for free. I'm sorry. Stop, stop, stop.

Stop, stop, Sylvia. Stop. Sylvia, stop. Okay, sorry. That's okay. What did you say? Your son has cancer? Yeah, like a stomach, like a blood cancer type of thing.

Okay. And so he has been declared disabled with cancer? Well, yeah, because he works works and then he gets really sick then the job keeps him and then he goes back to work and then he goes gets off again and so it's back and forth so in between that there's nothing coming in so for a year i paid i didn't charge him anything year and a half and then he started getting better and going back to work so i would charge him a thousand dollars or 1200 a month even now but now it's back into that waiting mode and so i'm only short and yeah and um and they said that oh maybe here's the problem here's the problem

here's the problem your bank account is not as big as your heart. Yeah. Your heart wants to keep the house. Stop, stop, Sylvia, stop. Your heart wants to keep the house because it's got your husband's stuff and memories. Your heart wants to help your son, and your bank account's not as big as your heart. No, I'm scared.

You're going to run out of money. That's why you're scared. Yes, 100%. You know, and I have excellent credit. I try to pay what I can. So here's what we're going to do. Okay. We're going to cry, because this is sad.

And Sylvia? I don't know what you're going to cry because this is sad. And Sylvia, we're going to move. What? Because your husband's memory and your husband's legacy is not a house. It's the man himself. And you're going to pack up some of the things that you want to keep to remember him by, and they're going to be in the next house because that's what he would do. Yeah. You wouldn't be dumb like me.

You're not dumb. You just have a big, beautiful heart. There's a difference. If you don't act on this, we might call you dumb later. I know, and I know. because you now know what to do you need to put a sign in the yard you need to have a big thanksgiving dinner and you need to tell your son and your daughter-in-law they're going to have to work it out and they'll work it out because daughter-in-law get a job i know no matter what i what she'll get a job when when hunger hits her doorstep she'll start working but right now you're carrying more than your bank account gives you the power to

carry and you can see the train coming down the tracks at you and that's why you're terrified so here's what's weird when you step off track, even though it's going to be painful to tell your son he has to move, even though it's going to be painful to box up your memories, when you step off the track, you're going to have a sense of relief that's going to be unbelievable. Because you're a smart woman. You see the train coming. Yeah, and I thought I was holding on to it like right now. I've got to rent her downstairs.

You can't. You can't. It's killing you. It's all in your voice. It's all in your voice. This deal's over. Your voice sounds frazzled. Well, only because I'm struggling.

I know. You're struggling. Why struggle? You have a half a million dollars in equity and $120,000 in the struggling. I know. You're struggling. Why struggle? You have a half a million dollars in equity and $120,000 in the bank. Sell it. Move to a cheaper area to live and take your memories with you. It's just a house, darling. It's just a house.

It ain't worth it. That's what I would do. If you were my older sister, I would have told you exactly the same thing I just told you right now. But we'll cry with you. This is The Ramsey Show. People all over the country are discovering a faith-based and budget-friendly way of meeting health care costs through Christian Health Care Ministries.

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that's house to 33 789 gavin is in tampa florida hi gavin welcome to the dave ramsey show thanks dave happy monday You too. What's up? Nothing much. Well, I got a pretty broad question for you. So essentially, for the first time in my life, I'm at a point in my career where I can save money and actually invest, you know, like beyond living paycheck to paycheck. Good. So, and like I said, there's a broad question, but what now? Where do I even start? Okay.

Are you out of debt except your home? I have a car payment that's actually pretty low. It's only $200 a month, and I have like $3,000 in credit card debt. Okay. So I've just got a little bit of a disease. Yeah. Okay. It sounds like it's tolerable for you, um it's not tolerable we got to clean that up that's the first place you invest is you clean up your debts because the number one key to building

wealth is getting control of your number one wealth building tool which is your income so we're going to attack with a vengeance on the two debts with any money you can squeeze out of your budget list your debts smallest to largest attack the little one pay minimums on the two debts with any money you can squeeze out of your budget. List your debts smallest to largest. Attack the little one. Pay minimums on the other one. And when the little one's gone, then you get the next one done. When those two are gone, now you don't have any payments anymore. Guess what?

Now you've even got more money. Now we're going to take all the money we can squeeze out of the budget at that point and build a rainy day fund. Because the big bad wolf is out there huffing and puffing. His name is Pandemic, or his name is 2008, or his name is a job loss, or his name is a car wreck. I don't know what his name is, but he's out there huffing and puffing. And he'll blow your little house down if you don't build a brick house. So we want you to have an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses.

Now, you don't have any debt, and you've got three to six months of expenses. That even feels better than where you are now. Right, Gavin? Yeah, that would be about perfect. Yeah, and then we're ready to start investing. And then you would use your 401k at your office, especially if they've got a match Roth version into good mutual funds. Or if you're ready to start investing at that point and you don't have a 401k, click Smart

Investor at DaveRamsey.com. That'll hook you up with the people we recommend. We're not in the investment business, but these are folks that do it the way we teach. You'll choose among a list of them that drops down which one you think is best, and then you'll sit down with them and you can start investing. And we recommend investing in four types of mutual funds in your retirement plans, growth, growth and income, aggressive growth, and international. All of that is outlined in what we call the Baby Steps,

and the book that we did that has the Baby Steps detailed on steroids is called The Total Money Makeover. I'm going to give you one because it sounds like you're ready for one, and Kelly will help you get one of those as my gift to you. Kevin is next. Kevin's in Sacramento. Hi, Kevin. How are you?

Hey, how's it going, guys? Better than I deserve. What's up? So we've got a quick question. My wife and I are on the fence about staying in California. We're thinking about moving to Austin, Texas area. Reason is because the housing market where I'm at right now is just pretty crazy

over here. The houses over in that area would be about half of what we would buy over here. Where are you? Not unless you're in Silicon Valley. Well, I'm in Roseville, so it's a little bit away, but it's yeah, it's normal. I think your houses are a lot cheaper in Austin, Texas, but they're not half.

But okay, anyway, your point is still. Well, for what I was looking for, basically. I'm looking at it as if there would be more of a fresh start because we paid off all of our debt we have um three to six months saved up and we're in the process of looking into buying a home so okay why would you stay in california and why would you move i'll stay in california to get the family but wouldn't move because uh i feel like it'd be easier to get a head start and kind of move forward with my wife and I. Where are you moving? What are you moving forward to professionally?

What's the dream? With at least my role, I feel like I'm kind of topped out with what I'm doing. I'm in IT topped out with what I'm doing. I'm in IT as a network engineer, and if I was wanting to make more, then I can look into different kind of fields. But from what I can do progressing, I feel like I've kind of hit my ceiling,

at least within the field I'm in. All right, so have you done homework? You've done homework on the housing. Have you done homework on the type of companies, the type of positions, the industries that you would like to go into, and do they exist in Austin? Yeah. Kind of what I'm gathering is Austin, Texas is like Silicon Valley 2.0. No, it's not. No, it's not. You've got to do some homework.

I mean, this is like uh it's it's like you're hearing uh tabloid news you need to really do some research before you make a move like this now the good news is good on you you guys uh have gotten debt free uh you're into baby step four you've got the future in front of you but but but don't go backwards financially because you just decide well this place over here seems like it's got a lot of great opportunities. We need to have a plan. Where am I going? Why do I want to go there?

How do I get there? And that's where you need to be on this. I wouldn't just move for the sake of moving. But, I mean, there will be some financial benefits to moving, obviously, to Texas versus California. Austin has a tremendous tech scene. It's not Silicon Valley. Nashville's got a tremendous tech scene, but it's not Silicon Valley. Lots of cities have good, strong presence of people in the hardware world

and people in the software world, and there's several corridors around that are stronger than others, and Austin, Nashville would be among them. Seattle would be among them, for sure. But to call it 2.0 as if somehow it's Nirvana or something, and the houses are priced half of what they are where you are, and the streets are paved with gold, too. No, none of that's true. So it's just freaking Austin, Texas.

So you need to go do a little more deep dive on your research. Like Ken said, you've done a really, really good job with your money, Kevin. I'm very proud of you. And it sounds like you're kind of done with California. And so would the last one out please turn off the lights? Oh, my gosh. Is everybody leaving that state? It feels unbelievable.

It feels like it. I mean, I'm talking to Dallas realt it's i'm talking to dallas realtors i'm talking to nashville realtors i'm talking to wherever and it's like 30 of their sales are former californians it's crazy people are coming to cities like nashville and austin and they're buying houses unseen they're buying them off the internet like they they go in of course they could see what the house looks like boom we're in and here's what's happening with. It's got to do with they can go outside and they don't get arrested. Well, and actually perform their business. Yeah.

We're seeing small businessmen and women are suffering deeply on the West Coast because they cannot go to work. They don't have anybody to serve. This guy's willing to move from a good job and move away from his family. Yeah. That's, you know, and that's really what's going on here. So, yeah. if the last one out just turns off the lights let us know okay so yeah um i i think you need to get on a plane and go to austin do some interviews and i think you need to look at some actual houses with a real estate

agent click elp at davramsey.com one of our endorsed local providers can start to inform you in austin uh how great a city it is. It is a great city. I wasn't running it down, but it's not nirvana, and it's not heaven. And so there's a great tech scene there, obviously, but it is not the only tech corridor in America where you could possibly make a great living. There's a lot of them. And so you need to start learning the market, learn the real estate market, learn the job market, and then based on all that knowledge,

you'll make a much better decision rather than just out of your frustration with the state of California. This is the Ramsey Show. Number one best-selling author radio host and ramsey personality ken coleman is my co-host today open phones at 888-825-5225 alan is in ogden utah hey alan how are you i'm pretty good i'm having trouble hearing you try again so my fiance is having trouble getting on board with you the idea of following the baby steps and living the day of life i've been listening to you guys for probably about two years now

and i'm for the idea but it's really hard to get going on it if you don't have a partner who's on board with you. Help me help her understand what you're trying to sell. Okay, what is her problem with this idea? She heard one podcast you guys did where this guy had a thing that you sold him to sell it and buy something else because it was, it was sinking him. And I personally, I saw the logic in what you said, but what she didn't understand is why you told him to ramp it up to $9,000 rather than keep it down at the like $3,000 or $5,000 that he was going to spend.

That's not her problem. And that's what I tried to tell her. No, that's not. What she heard on a podcast is not the problem. She was looking for an excuse to not do this stuff when she's listening to the podcast. So she found some little nuanced nothing detail that doesn't even matter to have a reason to throw out the idea of dealing with this. Evidence that Dave is cuckoo, so we can't do this. There's plenty of evidence that Dave is cuckoo.

It's fairly abundant. Not hard to find that if you're looking for it. We provide it daily. Yes, we do. It's here. It's 15,000 hours of it in the last few years. But it's all on YouTube, by the way. Yeah.

But, yeah, so, you know, there's a lot of reasons to. thousand hours of it in the last few years but um it's all on youtube by the way yeah but yeah so you know there's a lot of reasons to but you know and it's not a matter of me as you know it's not it's not a personal thing in the sense of oh she doesn't like me that's not the issue the the question is that you guys have got the two of you've got to sit down and say, what are our goals with money as a couple, and what is the best method to get us to those goals? I love her to death, but I keep living in debt, and I can't keep living paycheck to paycheck wondering if we're going to have a house. That wasn't what I said.

You're not living in debt anyway because you're not married. It's her problem if you leave her with it. If you get married, now it's your problem. So as a precursor to getting married, the two of you need to set a date after you've gotten some good pre-marriage counseling, which it sounds like you desperately need. And after you've sat down and said where okay how old are you guys we are 30 and 31 okay when you say when we're 50 five years old where do we want to be with our money and what is the best method to get there and you both then answer that question and you say hey i'd like to

be out of debt and be very wealthy and be able to be very generous and be able to travel and be able to buy something and not have to worry about it and this is what you would say right and then she can say whatever she wants to say and you say okay what is the best way to get to this dream? And let's make sure our dreams are combined before we combine our lives. Yep. Alan, I'm going to weigh in here. I want to go a little deeper. Do you both have debt individually? Yes.

She has about $12,000 worth of medical debt, and I have about $1,000 worth of consumer debt and i have about a thousand dollars worth of consumer debt okay well you're a on a budget of about twenty thousand dollars a year okay but listen here's the thing if if when you sit down with a marriage counselor in pre-marriage counseling and you say what do you want to be when we're 55 and she says oh i don't know i just don't want anybody telling me what to do dude you're not marrying a woman you're marrying a princess and you need to run yeah that's what i'm getting at alan i want to know why she's resisting you need to know what her resistance is to dave's thing and you can have it in the same conversation and then i'd want to know the why before you put before you go down the aisle because there is a there's something that she's

resisting um in what you're telling her and you're telling her how we teach yeah and and it gets you where i would assume she would agree with the vision uh that that you would want and so this is so serious alan that i mean to me i i'd press pause on the engagement i'd press pause on everything until you guys got on the same page about this. I wouldn't do that. I would just get with a marriage counselor, a pre-marriage counselor immediately, and you guys begin to talk this through. But what happens if that doesn't work? That may lead you to pressing pause.

That's what I'm saying. But I don't want to just break them up. No, I don't mean that. I think you need to go and sit sit down and try to work that through and, you know, let's figure out what we're doing. uh it is like pounding their fist demanding that no limitations be put on them in any way yeah and that they're allowed to do whatever they want to do and they they don't have they're not accountable for the future they're not accountable to themselves much less their future spouse about how we're going to end up then what you've got there is some unthrowing a temper fit. You've got a four-year-old throwing a temper fit on the cereal aisle because they can't get Cheerios. And this is not marriage material.

No. And so, you know, the old joke is if a guy marries a girl who loves spending money, you better enjoy making money. But that's not true. It doesn't work that way. It doesn't. You can't make enough to – you can't out-earn somebody who's a super spender. Yeah, you're playing the marriage.

Before there were super spreaders, there were super spenders. Yeah, right. But yeah, and I don't think this is what's going on with her. I think there's something else. I really don't think she's a bad egg. I don't either. That's why I want to know what's the resistance and why. I want to know the why.

And it could be, too, Alan. It could be, too, that you have used me as a weapon on her. Uh-oh. And turned me into a cuss word. Oh, boy. And you've jammed up. You've stopped up this conversation and constipated it. And so you're going to have, you may have to just back away from the Dave thing, because

Dave's not relevant in this discussion. The two of you being on the same page about a method of some kind to get to where you want to be and being on the same page on where you want to be yeah now that's vital huge i'm just gonna say it dave i mean you can correct me if you think it's too strong i'm just coming from the position of watching couples and and if you aren't on the same page about money you're playing the marriage lottery oh you're playing russian rou. Oh, you're playing Russian roulette. And the odds are so against you making it. Number one cause of divorce.

Of course. Money fights and money problems. So if you can't get on the same page about money ahead of marriage, don't get married. Yeah, and it's going to hurt. I don't think that's too strong. Okay. But, I mean, the number one people die of a bear attack

is walking down the street. Don't walk down that street. You know what I mean? It's really common sense, you know? That's a good point. So, you know, bears are on that street. will kill your butt you know i mean it's just like so this is not hard yeah and so um yeah stay you know stay off of that and um you know i saw a statistic the other day that uh like 37 percent of the current divorces also mention a uh a spouse looking up an old boyfriend or girlfriend on facebook oh boy so the second leading cause

of divorce is facebook right yeah so i'm good with getting rid of that too yeah you should yeah what could have been what are you doing what are you doing what are you doing going back i mean come on now yeah you just want to be satisfied that's all then you just go look at that that's another problem he lost all his hair look at that right so yeah exactly but uh anyway yeah so the all kidding aside alan it's it's imperative if you were my son or daughter i would tell you it's imperative to be on the same page on religion money in-laws and kids yes with the help of a pre-marriage counselor before you get married there's all kinds of data and research that shows those four things are your leading indicators to a fabulous fabulous marriage one other little nugget dave because i can't help it.

Alan, if you do premarital counseling and she won't give in, don't you give in. Don't you do money the way you don't want to do it just to try to make her happy. That ain't going to work either. Don't capitulate. Yeah, we've got to come to agreement, not a concession. That's what I wanted to point out. This is The Ramsey Show. Our scripture of the day, Job 8-7, And though your beginning was small, your latter days will be very great.

John D. Rockefeller said, don't be afraid to give up the good to go after the great. That's true. Steve is with us. Steve is in Montana. Hi, Steve. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. You're awesome.

It's a pleasure to speak with you. Thanks for taking my call. Thank you. How can Ken and I help? Well, my wife and I, we're both retired. We have a pretty good income, and we own two properties. One of the homes we own here in Montana is paid off, and the other one we have a mortgage on, and we owe about $250,000 on it. Right now, the interest rates are pretty low. We were thinking about refinancing the one we owe on.

Either that or selling the one that's paid off to pay off the one we actually live in. You know, we're just trying to make the best financial choices. And I didn't know if, you know, it's smart during these times with the low interest rates to keep a lower mortgage and a payment and maybe keep the other property or sell the other property, pay off this house and still have some cash left over. Yeah. When Chris Hogan did the book Everyday Millionaires, we interviewed and surveyed in detail over 10,000 millionaires.

And basically we were trying to learn how they got there and which ones got there the fastest and what they did. And so you can develop a series of data points to get you there um we had way less than three percent of them say they became wealthy because they borrowed money at low interest rates right they said we became debt free and so we had ridiculous cash flow in our lives because we weren't giving the bank our money, and we used that ridiculous cash flow to become wealthy. And so the net goal needs to be clearing the debt. Now, then there's two possibilities.

One, you sell the rental and you clear the debt, or two, you set about the business of clearing the debt out of your income and keeping the rental, and you look at what the difference in time is for those things. If it takes you 10 years longer to get out of debt on your home because you kept the rental, I'd probably sell the rental. If it takes you three years longer to pay off your home because you keep the rental, I'd probably keep the rental. You see what I'm doing?

Right. But the point is, I don't want to drag this rental along for a long period of time when I could have just cleared this and then get on the shortest distance between where you are and serious wealth. What's the shortest distance between two points of straight line? And so, you know, you look at your income versus the mortgage you have and say, all right, I can do this in three or four years. If I sell the rental, I can do it in three or four months. In that case, I'll probably keep the rental if you like it.

And it sounds like with the words you're using that you like it. And that's what I would do. Sarah is in Salt Lake City. Hi, sarah welcome to the dave ramsey show hey good afternoon thank you sure how can ken and i help hi so i just kind of wanted some advice i just found you um in regards to having a career i'm 19 i do have some debt but I want to cash flow, of course, my education. I wanted to be an accountant in high school, so I took some classes, but I don't want to be an accountant. I'm looking at being someone who does taxes or like a financial advisor, but I'm having a hard time finding somewhere that has like good graduation or good hire rates to get an education from.

I'm not sure where to look, like if a community college would be good. Well, I think what you need to do is explore both of those paths and see if there's anything else in that financial space that appeals to you. So if you talk about the financial advisor, we call those smart investor pros here at Ramsey Solutions. One of the things I'd love for you to do is go to DaveRamsey.com. After this call, let's find out who all is in the Salt Lake City area. And I'd call them up, tell them you're a 19-year-old student, and you may want to do what they do one day.

And you talk to Dave and Ken on the air, and let's see if one will do a phone call with you. And you do almost a high school book report or term paper on what they do, right, so that you understand what their day looks like. What do they love most? What do they like the least? How'd they get qualified? How much money they make?

How long it took them to get there? I think when you start to do that with a tax advisor, and we have tax advisors as well, if you go to DaveRamsay.com, that becomes a really good barometer for you to kind of measure what your head and heart are saying. And when you do that and you find out what's involved, how to get there, how long it's going to take, how you can make money, your head processes that, and then your heart will either go ding, ding, ding, or eh, and it begins to help you see, oh. And so getting clarity there is what I want you to do first.

Then you make your education decision based on the direction. That's where I'd want you to start. I think that's very helpful at 19. Yeah. How much time am I going to have to spend to get qualified? And how much money am I going to have to spend to get qualified? And that qualified could be a four-year degree. It could be a certification program.

It could be whatever it is. I don't care. I mean, if you want to be in the real estate business and sell real estate, what you have to do is you have to take some, in most cases, most states, you have to take some pre-licensing educations. You have to take a couple of classes. You sit for your test. You pass the test, and you're in the real estate business.

So you can look at it and go, it takes four months. It takes three months to get qualified and be able to be a real estate agent. And now, then you've got to learn how to do the business. But, I mean, that gets you in. That's your table stakes. That's it. That gets you into the game. That gets you to the table.

And so, if you want to be a CPA, the shortest path these days for most people is the master's in accounting, which you've already determined you didn't want to do. So you're not going to be on the CPA track probably. If you want to be working in the financial advising business, selling mutual funds like our Smart Investor Pros do, there's not a technical education requirement. Obviously, you've got to have a lot of knowledge about finance, and you could work towards the designation of CFP.

Very difficult to get if you don't have some academic underpinning in finance, though. So you may want to do some four-year work towards that. But, again, one of those smart investor pros could tell you that if you interviewed them for 10 minutes on the phone. They could say, look, if you do it this way, here's how hard it's going to be. If you do plan B, here's how hard it's going to be and how long it's going to take and what it costs to get those certifications. And you may find, Sarah, that they would be willing to hire you in an administrative support

position and they begin to pay you. Maybe they even pay for some of that education because they feel like you're a potential rock star for them down the road. But you're at least in proximity and you're around those people. So hang on the line. Kelly, let's give her a copy of my number one bestselling book, The Proximity Principle, The Proven Plan That Will Lead to the Career You Love. And really, we're going to unpack the people and the places that you get in and around

so that you begin to clarify and verify. What I just told you, Sarah, is that process. We clarify. We get the knowledge on what the path might look like, could look like, should look like. And our heart will kind of verify, yeah, this is, in fact, what I want to pursue. And then you begin to build the plan by saying, what do I need to learn? What do I need to do? That's education and experience.

How long is that going to take? Excuse me, how much will that cost me, time and money? And now I've got an expectation. I know how long it's going to take? Excuse me, how much will that cost me, time and money? And now I've got an expectation. I know how long it's going to take to get there. That knowledge will give you tremendous confidence and courage to step out and stay on the path. Yeah, it's very smart to not climb a ladder and then discover it's leaning on the wrong wall. And that's what people do with education too many times is they go, well, I thought if I just got a degree. Well, it's leaning on the wrong wall. You got a degree in left-handed puppetry. I mean, that's what people do with education too many times is they go, well, I thought if I just got a degree. Well, that's leaning on the wrong wall.

You got a degree in left-handed puppetry. I mean, that's ridiculous. You have medieval poetry knowledge here. I mean, you got a master's in medieval poetry. Give me a break. You know, so where did you think you were going to make a living doing that? And so the beauty is Sarah's on the opposite end of that spectrum being very smart very wise on the front end and getting very uh into the weeds and figuring out exactly

what is required what's it going to cost and how long is it going to take and then that's your education path yep and that can be a four-year degree there's nothing wrong with that absolutely nothing wrong with that but uh in in case, it probably is not going to be. Again, depending on which area she's going into, though. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. Thanks to James Childs, our producer, Kelly Daniel, our associate producer and phone screener. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host.

We'll be back before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Have a friend or family member that needs a daily dose of Ramsey advice in their life? Let them know about the Ramsey Call of the Day podcast. It's a quick hit of advice about life and money in under 10 minutes. Check out the Ramsey Call of the Day podcast wherever you listen to podcasts.