The Ramsey Show - App - My Financial Values Don't Align With My Career Field (Hour 2)

Episode Date: June 29, 2021

Debt, Relationships, Career, Savings Sign Up for a FREE trial of Ramsey+ TODAY: https://bit.ly/3rZTUAx Tools to get you started:  Debt Calculator: https://bit.ly/2Q64HME Insurance Coverage Checkup: https://bit.ly/3sXwUn5 Complete Guide to Budgeting: https://bit.ly/3utmVXi Check out more Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3fHhbVE

Welcome Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us. Anthony O'Neill, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author of the book Debt-Free Degree and host of the ever popular YouTube phenomenon called The Table, where they sit at the table, he and his guests, and discuss things going on in the world, including your

money, your life, including how to be successful. And it's vastly popular. So be sure and join him on YouTube and be sure and join him today and ask your question. The phone number, 888-825-5225. Josh is with us. Josh is in San Antonio. Hi, Josh. How are you?

I'm doing well, Dave. How are you today? Better than, Josh. How are you? I'm doing well, Dave. How are you today? Better than I deserve. What's up? So I'm a realtor with a crisis of conscience. Realtor. I also teach financial peace. I'm currently teaching my third class. And the thing I've come across, especially in these crazy times, is what do you do when you got these people that the lender's like, oh, you got to go get a credit card oh you got to go do this debt i've told people look there's other ways to do this and i've lost business you know and that's fine god's taking care of my family but how do you approach this as a real estate guy you've been this forever you know doing both sides you know you're talking

about the go get a credit card to build your credit thing is that what you're talking about the go get a credit card to build your credit thing? Is that what you're talking about? Yes, sir. Okay. Then what you have to have is you need to find – how much volume do you do? How many houses a year do you sell? I do about $2 million a year. It's a long story how my stuff floats. My family is – we've been debt-free for a while, so we're not having to go out there and get every single deal and just do whatever.

I try to do mine as biblically as possible, which is kind of hard to do sometimes. Yeah, sure, sure. Well, and I think that, you know, what we had to do, in an instance, 20-plus years ago, 25 years ago, with Churchill Mortgage was Mike Hardwick and I had to sit down and say, listen, if I'm going to send folks to Churchill Mortgage and tell people that I never say anything more than a 15-year fixed rate where the payment is more than a fourth of your take-home pay and you need to be prepared to do manual underwriting because a lot of the people that do what I teach are not going to have a credit score,

and so you can't tell people to go get a credit card when the lead I sent you just went through Financial Peace University, and I told them to cut up their credit cards. So we can't be – it's inconsistent, and people get pissed off when you're inconsistent because it feels like a lack of integrity. And so these are the discussions Mike and I had 25 years ago, and we've had them a few times since then over the years as he's grown and, you know, he buys another mortgage company in another city and he has to teach them, you know, our way of looking at things. Because if I send leads over there, they get mad, you know. Yeah. And you got the same thing.

It's not just a crisis of confidence. It's conscience. But they're looking at us like we lied or something, you know. And so, you know, what I would tell you to do is begin to develop just on a local level, a relationship with a mortgage broker, a mortgage company that are maybe just an underwriter at one of the companies or a, you know, a loan originator. That's just got, you know, they get it. They go through Financial Peace University. Maybe you pay for it or whatever. And so that you can get aligned on when I send a customer over there,

you know, I don't want to hear that you told them to go get a credit card. Right. Or I can't send you that business. Yeah. You know, and so, you know, because I can't, it's inconsistent and it, you know, it's, you know, standard operating procedure in the mortgage business won't work for me. And it won't work for you, Josh. you're not saying I have trouble telling them to get a mortgage because, you know, that we all, while we believe the best thing is the 100% down plan, we calm down a little bit and allow a 15-year in our guidelines, knowing that with the idea, though, that they're going to get it paid off soon, right?

Correct. Yeah. So that's not your crisis. No, and I've actually had to walk away from this. I think the past two years I've probably walked away from about a million and a half in volume just because it wasn't going to be a good fit. And I didn't want to be the realtor to look back on going, it's your fault I did this deal. I don't care about that.

It's better to let them know. Somehow you have to position yourself in the customer's mind that you're coaching them, not just selling them a house. Okay. customer's mind that you're coaching them, not just selling them a house. Cool. Okay. And I think, and when you got a customer that's crazy and they won't allow that, then they're not a customer. Exactly.

Let them go. Let them go. And just lead with your heart, man. You know, just lead with your heart, lead with the coaching, lead with the guidance. And I think that will honestly eventually earn you more volume because I love my real estate agent who's part of our program. And as a guy who teaches it, he's always holding me accountable. Hey, Anthony, did you check your budget? Is that less than 25 percent?

You know, and I love that because I know his heart is in the right place. So I would just say just leave with your heart, leave with the guidance, leave with the coaching. And I believe eventually it will bring you more guidance down the road not guidance but more volume yeah i mean god's gonna bless the intent of your heart here what it amounts to so i think the thing you want to be careful of and in my seat i have to be careful of it as well is to be persuasive and winsome, not legalistic. Yes. And be persuasive on the principles and say, this is why. Yeah.

You know, listen, man, you're acting like you're going to get alone here. You're not going to be able to breathe, and I'm worried about you. Yeah. You know, I think it's going to leave you in a bad place, and I think you've got a little bit of house fever. I think you need to go and take a cold shower, and we need to rethink, you know, if I was your older brother, if I was your dad, you dad, I would tell you, son, don't do this. And so I'm going to do that because I care about you.

And if you're hell-bent on driving your car off the cliff, you're going to do it by yourself because I'm not going to participate in that. Dave, what you just said is ten times better than a regular guy who's trying to get his 3%. Oh, yeah, do whatever you want to do. Let me just get the money. Well, but not when somebody's just get the money. Yeah. You know? Well, but not, you know, when somebody's got a house fever. Yeah.

And they're hell-bent on doing something stupid, but, and getting a loan that's 55% of their take-home pay, which they can get approved for on an adjustable-rate mortgage that's going to ding them in a year and a half, right? Because it starts in the hole on the index, and they're going to come out at 55%, then they're going to be looking at 63% the next year. And, you know, they're just hell-bent on self-destruction because they got the fever and they need

that jacuzzi with the skylight. And you can't stop stupid when it's on a, you know, train track heading off the cliff. Can't stop. And so, you know, all you can do is get out of the way and just, you know, wave the cape and go ole. You know? And just good luck with this. You know, because I've tried to stop stupid in my own friends. You have too.

Yes, yes. And they look at you with one eye. Yeah. You know, and the other eye is looking off somewhere else. It's weird. Yeah. It's like they're possessed. And then when they do the stupid and they realize it's stupid,

they didn't want to come back and apologize for the stupidity. I'm like, no, don't apologize now. Yeah. You didn't hurt me. No. It was you. I was trying to save you. I'm not stupid.

Not as much as I used to be. Right. This is the Ramsey Show. Folks, listen up. I know some of y'all are putting off getting life insurance because rates went up, restrictions were added due to COVID, but it doesn't change your responsibility to take care of your family. Lucky for you, insurance companies are lowering their rates again, and there are more options than ever to let you skip the medical exam.

Yes, it's actually easier than it was before all this mess, so now is the time to get it done. If you don't have term life insurance or not enough, you need to take the step, take care of this, and let the team at Zander Insurance help. I've used and recommended Zander for over 20 years because they shop the top term life companies to find you the best rates, and they keep coming up with new ways to make the whole process faster and simpler. Apply online or over the phone, sign with electronic or voice signature. No exams. It just doesn't get any easier.

Go to Zander.com or call 800-356-4282. It really is time co-host today. You can join us here at 888-825-5225. Here at Ramsey Solutions, we're on a mission to transform so many lives that disruption in this toxic culture spreads like wildfire. What's that mean? It means imagine a world where it's weird to have a student loan. Instead, everybody has one. Imagine a world where it's normal to pay cash for your car or even your house, where the credit card is looked at as the

cigarette of the financial world. Now imagine being part of our team that's on a mission to make all of that a reality, and you're working at it every day, work that matters, actually helping people. We've got just under 1,000 folks working on our team, 996 this week to create digital products, services that transform people's lives. Our goal is to disrupt this toxic culture. Whether it's career, whether it's mental health, whether it's money, whatever it is. Success. If you want to join us on this crusade, we're on the hunt for software engineers with expertise in Ruby on Rails, Java, C Sharp, front-end technologies.

If you're a UX designer, SEO, and content marketing specialist, we'd love to talk to you. And we've got about 300 positions total, not all of them technology, that are available. And we're going to hire this year. So find out about all of it by texting work to 33 789 text work to 33 789 and you can find out about the opportunities to join us here at ramsey we would love to have you d'artagnan is with us and he is in kansas hey d'artagnan what's up hi ramsey it's great to talk to you. You too. How can we help? So I'm currently in my penultimate semester of college. In this fall, I anticipate I'll have to pay between $1,500 and $3,000 out of pocket.

I have a $9,000 car note that I want to get rid of, and I recently got rid of investments that I had because after listening to you, I realized I shouldn't have investments when I'm in debt. So how should I distribute this $8,000 of investments that I had because after listening to you, I realized I shouldn't have investments when I'm in debt. So how should I distribute this $8,000 of investments that I've recently just acquired into my bank account between living, paying off my car, and then the anticipated money I'll have to spend for tuition this fall for my last semester? So you have one semester? Currently in my second class this summer, and then in the fall I'll be in my last. Okay.

And that's a total of $3,000, if I heard you correctly? For tuition, yes, that I have remaining that I'll have to pay out of pocket. All right. How are you eating? What are you doing for rent, food, and so forth? For rent in the fall, I'll be paying about $350 total split between my girlfriend and I. So I'll be paying $350 myself. And then I spend about $150 on food each month because I eat beans and rice pretty much every day.

How are you paying for all that? I have a job. So I live in Kansas City, but I go to school in Manhattan. So when I'm in school, I'll be living in Manhattan. But I commute to Kansas City because I work 30-hour shifts because I'm a caretaker. So I just work 30-hour shifts and then go back to Manhattan. What do you make at your job? At that job, I have another job, but I work PR in there.

At the job that I'm speaking to you about, I make $11 an hour. Okay. Okay, so I guess the first goal is pay cash for finishing school. And that includes the tuition, and that includes your living expenses. Now, you've got two sources to do that. That's why I'm asking all these questions. You have the income that you have coming in, and you have the $8,000, right? Yes, and through the end of the summer, I anticipate I'll make another $3,500 between the hours I'm working at both jobs this summer.

Good. So we're looking at about... So what's your budget for the fall, then? You need $3,000 for tuition, and how much to finish the fall up? Another $5,000? budget for the fall then you need three thousand for tuition and how much for to finish the fall up another five thousand um probably somewhere around there probably a little less because i don't spend that much on food or living expenses outside of rent yeah okay so that's the eight thousand bucks and you got thirty five hundred more so you got a little bit of pad but you don't have an extra fifteen thousand laying around how much is your car note

about nine thousand dollars what's the note a month oh it's about 225 okay that's in there too yeah yeah so i think the car is going to get paid off after you graduate and you're going to use the money from the summer and the money from the sale of the investments to make sure you graduate yeah okay yeah i mean you got it's going to take you almost all of that but i mean you may end up with from the sale of the investments to make sure you graduate. Okay. Yeah. I mean, it's going to take you almost all of that. But, I mean, you may end up with $3,000 or $4,000 laying around by the time you graduate. It sounds like you're going to. I hope you do.

Maybe $5,000 laying around. But when you graduate and get the full-time regular job and you settle into an adult process rather than a college process, then I would reach over and start your baby steps and actually pay off the car. Right now I'm just trying to get you out of school with debt, without debt. Do you see something different? No, no, no. I don't, Dave. That's why I was asking.

I knew he had $9,000. I just wanted to make sure his monthly bills wasn't straining him with this $3,000 and another $5,000 coming. So that's why I was just trying to make sure. But I don't see nothing different at all. The only thing I would add is, you know, I'm a little concerned, you know, what if something happens between you and your young lady and y'all got to go separately and then your housing goes up. But I'm agreeing with you, Dave. Yeah.

It sounds like you got $8,000 plus $3,500 and you need somewhere around $8,000. So you've got somewhere around a $4,000 pad, give or take, the way things are laid out today, just to get through. It's not a bunch of money, but at least you've got a little bit of wiggle room without debt. That's the main thing. I want to get you out of school with no more debt. Exactly.

And then we can go back and clean up the car later when you actually start with the adult job and so forth. That's what we call it, I guess. Post-college job. Post-college job. There we go. That's a good question. Our question of the day comes from Blinds.com.

Find out for yourself why they are such a wonderful company that I've endorsed for over a decade. They're the number one online retailer of custom window coverings with free samples, free shipping, and they always have new promos. Be sure you use the promo code RAMSEY to get the best deal at blinds.com. Let me get the question, Dave. All right. Oh, you're going to get it from me? Yeah.

Okay. Today's question comes from Nicole in Pennsylvania. She says, I'm a 32-year-old woman. I am currently in baby step number two. I have about $20,000 in debt and will pay that off when I receive the proceeds from the sale of my home. I've also put money aside for my

fully funded emergency fund, completing baby step three. My question is this, Dave. After I start putting 15% aside for retirement, should I focus on building wealth as a single mom without children? I'm 32 years old.

I'm currently babysitting my two. Sorry, you read that wrong. You can't be a single mom without children. You wouldn't be his mom. Should I focus on building a wealth as a single woman without children? Oh, a single woman, not a single mom. Okay. You can't be a mom without kids.

Okay. I was so confused. All right. All right. All right. So, yeah. Why not? I mean, the goal here, the goal of the baby steps is to cause you to build wealth. Yeah.

I don't see anything off here. Getting out of debt is so that you have control of your most powerful wealth building tool, which is your income. Yep. And all the data that we have says that if you get out of debt, you are going to become wealthy faster than if you screw around with debt it's pretty simple yeah it's 30 years of doing this so the goal is to build wealth so single woman single mom single guy married couple whatever grandma grandpa little little 19-year-old getting started. The goal is build wealth. Yeah, and you're already doing that by putting aside 15%. That's how you start.

You said after I start putting aside 15%. No, putting aside 15% is the beginning process of building wealth long-term. Yeah, and then the next question is with money you have above that 15 do you want to just invest even more or do you want to start saving towards a house yeah that's the only two options there in the baby steps but both of those move you towards wealth exactly owning a home is going to move you towards wealth and as long as you do it properly and it doesn't become a curse right yeah uh but the uh but there's no requirement that anyone buy a home at any certain stage somewhere along the line you want to buy one yes but right now you're a single lady making money and you want to just pile it up and build

you up a big old honking emergent a big old honking mutual fund and look over there i got a half million dollars makes me feel good do good. Do it. Have at it, girl. Get it. Get it. Woo. Woo. Woo. Woo. Woo. Woo.

Woo. Woo. Woo. Woo. Woo. Woo. Woo. Woo.

Woo. Woo. Woo. Woo. Woo. Woo. Woo. Woo.

Woo. Woo. Woo. Woo. Woo. Woo. Anthony O'Neill, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. I'm Dave Ramsey. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Now, you've heard me talking about timeshares for many years. We're going to be doing another timeshare show talking about America's largest legalized fraud very soon. If you have been a customer of a timeshare or you're currently a timeshare owner, former owner or current owner, we are conducting a new survey where we want your thoughts and opinions and your experience with the timeshare industry. Text the word timeshare to 33789 and you can participate in this research study. Text timeshare to 33789.

Also, if you want to be a part of the radio show as we're discussing this, we want to hear your stories about how you've been screwed over by the timeshare business, and we want to hear from you. If you want to share your story about the timeshare business and we want to hear from you if you want to share your story about the timeshare business about your experience with getting trapped in one of these tiger cages and they say pet the tiger pet the tiger we'll give you a free night we'll give you a free tickets to the show tickets to the water park whatever the crap and you get in there and maybe you've been stuck in one of these things for years and can't get out of it and you get in there, and maybe you've been stuck in one of these things for years and can't get out of it, and you've experienced this, we want to hear from you. We want to hear your story.

We want to give you the opportunity to tell your story on the air for 22 million people. But we need to hear from you right now. If you want to be on the air and tell your story, we need you to email DaveOnAir air at ramsey solutions.com dave on air one word no spaces at ramsey solutions.com put timeshare in the subject line put a little bit about your story and how we can get in touch with you and kelly will get in touch with you we're not going to tell you what to say we're just going to line up the time for you to call to be able to call you get you on the air and make you part of that hour where we're discussing the timeshare business we want to hear your story america needs to hear your

story dave on air at ramsey solutions.com put timeshare in the subject line we'll get back to you sarah is with us in austin texas hi sarah welcome to the ramsey show hey how are you guys great how can we help well my husband and i found you less than a month ago and i want to thank you guys for lighting a fire under um when i was 18 i was ready to get out of the house and i applied for colleges i toured many but my mother told me that if i didn't go to this certain one, I wouldn't go. So that put me in debt about $46,000. My husband and I, he's in a doctorate program for physical therapy. It's about $150,000, and that would be our debt. I want to break the legacy of my family. I'm the first woman in my family to graduate college, and I want to continue growing that legacy with no debt and just being wealthy and when it comes down to it I'm just angry at my mother and I feel a moral

obligation to pay my student loans but I selfishly don't feel like it's all on me and I just need advice and you probably telling me that I'm being a selfish brat I wouldn't say that. That's how I feel, kind of. Yeah, I understand. What's your household income? Right now, it would be... We make about $44,000 a month. Not $44,000, $4,400 a month. And my husband will be making more. He graduates in December, but he's in school full-time right now.

Okay, and he's going to be getting a degree in what? Physical therapy. Okay, so he'll be making $70,000 or $80,000. Right. Okay, and so you're going to go from a $50,000 income to a $120,000 income. And you've got $180,000 between you and student loan debt. Does your mom have a lot of money? No.

Okay. No. So what part of you being mad at her makes her have money? Because if she didn't have money, she can't pay this, even if she wanted to. Right. So here's what we agreed on and maybe this is why i'm mostly upset with her is because she said that she would be paying off the loans for i guess the rest of her life and because i was 18 i didn't even think about it and i was like okay sure yeah so i got married and so i just didn't even think about my student loans being a part of my debt and so I was talking to her because we're having to move for

his clinicals and she's basically saying so whenever uh you know you guys get higher paying jobs you can you know start paying off your debt and she's right it just makes me angry because I didn't even want so she forgot the part where she promised to pay it. Exactly. Yeah, and that does make you angry. And in her ignorance, given that she did not go to college, you said, she drove you to go to a college that you really couldn't afford. Yeah, I mean, it was a private Christian school, so it was ridiculously expensive. And if I heard this thing correctly, your husband is still in school, right?

Yeah, he has about three months left. Right. So honestly, I'm not even worried about paying back my mom just yet. That's not even a consideration. It's not her mom. She has a student loan. I mean, yeah. So here's my thing. I'm focusing on getting my husband out of school without racking up any more debt.

Right. That's what I'm going to focus focus on but when they graduate should she go to her mom to have her mom pay for this uh if her mom said yes i'm going to talk to my dad and my parents like hey listen this is what we are we agreed upon you know um don't change now because you know i've been able to uh up my income i'm having a serious respectful but firm conversation because this is not what we it's not what we agreed to do uh but yes i'm i'm having a conversation but outside of that if she says no dave she's i mean you're gonna have to pay for it yeah i will be prepared to pay for it. How old are you?

I just turned 25. Okay. I kind of think I'm hearing between the sentences that this behavior of inconsistency with your mom is a pattern more than just a singular event. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. So it's kind of like that part of growing up where you look over and you realize, my mom's really not right on some of these things. No.

You know, that part of where you grow up and you realize, my parents really are not. And then you go, okay, I'm going to let them be parents anyway. I'm still going to forgive them and I'm going to move on. I don't think your mom has $40,000, so I don't think the discussion matters much, except it just hurts your feelings. Yeah, I'm afraid you're right. Yeah, I'm not saying you're a brat. I think you have a valid reason.

She made you a promise that she didn't keep. Right. you're a brat i think you have a valid reason she made you a promise that she didn't keep right and led you astray uh because but it wasn't out of malice she didn't you know let's my daughter deeply in debt and run her life she didn't that was not her goal her goal was she did the best she could do recommending that school uh because she had never been to school and she thought that was the best way to do it. Right. So she was an enthusiastic ignoramus. Yeah. Yeah, but, I mean, she was not malice.

She certainly didn't set out to hurt you, agreed? Right, for sure. Yeah, she just didn't know what she was doing because you're first-generation college. And that's where we run into the most student loan debt anthony i've talked about this a lot it's both uh it's socio-economic but it uh it's regional it's racial it's a lot of things we see it in all the demographics when we study the student loan stuff but it's any time uh regardless of what area of the country your biggest mistakes in what the field of study is and where you go to school and how much student loan debt you go into are the parents trying to go,

I didn't get an education. You've got to get one. I have no idea how to do it. But education is everything, and everybody goes and overspends for the wrong thing. And this first-generation college does it the worst. That's the ones that get screwed over the most. And so that's where you are. You kind of fit in that thing.

I think the best route for where do you end up with the best life for you at 30? I don't think she can pay it. I don't think you holding her to it is going to cause anything to change in her. And so probably just a good relationship with your mom and call it and just go, this sucks and I'm going to pay it. I'm going to get rid of it. I don't think I'm going to bother her with it because I don't think she can pay it and I don't think she's set out to harm you at all. She just didn't know what the flip she was doing.

And she's a little ditzy and a little bit doesn't follow through and that's aggravating and I get that. But I just let her be mom and move on. This is the Ramsey show. 180 000 in student loan the last student loans the last lady had with her husband, she had 40 and he had 140, or she had 30 and he had 150, whatever it was, and it's just a pile of money. If you haven't checked out the, I mean, the student loan crisis, it's of epic proportions. The stupidity has gone into the stratosphere with this thing. We did a podcast series on it called Borrowed Future that millions of people have downloaded and listened to. And Anthony is a tip of the spear on that thing, put it all together with our team. And if you haven't listened to it, Uncovering the Student Loan Crisis, it's obviously free,

and you need to listen to the borrowed future podcast um little teaser there might be something in the works a little further on borrowed future coming soon to some screens near you we'll uh we'll let you know more later but uh i've gotten to do some of the previews on it, and I am so impressed with our team. Yes, I am too. They made me look real good, Dave. They did. They made you look really, I mean, you're smart, but they made you even look smarter than you are.

Absolutely. I was amazed by that. The bit with, well, anyway, you can get a lot of the information on the current podcast, and then we're going to get you some more soon in a new format. And what I was telling her a minute ago, I think it's worth you and I unpacking for a minute, because we've talked about it on air and off both. When you started digging into the student loan crisis and our team started really doing the research into it and started breaking it down, you know, we see people that pay too much yes pick the wrong

school they pick the wrong school they pick a degree that has no profit that has no uh career possibilities equal to what they paid meaning there's no roi no return on investment on this level of education. And so, you know, if you can become a high school math teacher for, you know, $12,000 a year at your local state school tuition, which is what the state schools average right now, or you can spend $50,000 a year for exactly the same job. And if you were going to go into debt, we'd say it's $200,000 versus $40,000. Yes. We're not going to tell you to go into debt. But when you just compare those two things right there, for the exact same career field, it's asinine what people have been led to do, chosen to do. Yeah, Dave. And another thing that I've learned is people are, and I do chosen to do yeah dave and another thing that

we've i've learned is people are and i'm gonna say this respectfully they're lazy they don't want to step back and do the research and see what are the programs and the opportunities out there you're talking about 40 000 let's go even a little bit deeper dave if you go to like one of the schools let's say unc wilmington unc pembroembroke, you can actually, if you get accepted into the school, you will only pay $500 up in their programs a semester.

So that's $1,000 a year, $4,000 for a bachelor's degree to become a school teacher. But people do not want to step back and do the research on what they want to do if they're in North Carolina.

They want to go to Chapel Hill. They want to go to Duke. They want to go to these big names, which is nothing wrong with it. But they think if I go to Duke, I'll be a better school teacher than going to UNC Pembroke. No, no, no, no, no. You know, you get in the same education, go to the same school, get paid the same money, but you pay 10 times more than actually stepping back and doing that research and picking the right school that's going to elevate you give you the education which is important but what is your long-term gain yeah so here's the warning for you guys out there um if you whether you're the student

that's watching us maybe on youtube and you're thinking of going into college in the future, you're 17, 18, 16, 19, whatever, in that age group, or whether you're the parent. The thing that Anthony and I have seen where the largest mistakes happen, I mentioned to her earlier, it was her mom didn't know anything about higher education. Facts. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because she hadn't gone to college. And there's no shame in that.

But it's like buying a car and you've never owned one. Yeah. And you go, well, you know, you need to get a Bentley. You know, you ought to get a Mercedes because I heard they're really good. But I've never owned a car. I've never even driven a car. That's a good example. And so, but, you know, but I heard they're a car. I've never even driven a car. That's a good example. And so, but I heard they're really good.

I heard those Mercedes are really good cars. Yeah, well, I ain't got any money, but I'm going to go sign up for a Chevrolet because my mom, I mean, I'm going to go sign up for a Bentley or a Mercedes instead of a Chevrolet because my mom or dad has never been there. So mom and dad, if you didn't go to school, there is zero shame in that. As a matter of fact, it might just be awesome that you didn't go to school there is zero shame in that as a matter of fact it might just be awesome that you didn't go to school i'm you're not in debt life is good

right but if your kid is getting ready to go to school get some people in your corner that have that have a have a four-year degree that i have made some of the mistakes maybe uh that aren't thinking like society is thinking like our broken culture is thinking because otherwise you could really screw up your kid yeah by allowing by two things one is allowing them to pay too much and two is allowing them to study left-wing feminism or something, and then all of a sudden you've got no ability to get a job because there's no such thing as a job for that. And you can study it if you want to study it,

but whatever the thing is, left-handed puppetry, BB stacking, I don't know, whatever thing it is we want to make fun of that is a useless freaking degree, and then you pay $200,000 in debt to get a useless freaking degree. This most often happens in first-generation college where their parents did not go to school. When you and I first started looking at this, we had the hypothesis that it was more racial because you were seeing a lot of people in the black community yes they were having this exact problem exactly and you kept going this is my people yeah and this is a problem and i kept going is it is it really a racial thing and because and then we dove into the numbers and we went yeah but black people whose

parents went to school went to college aren't making that mistake. It turns out it's not a racial thing at all. It's mostly the data tells us, as we've studied this and researched it, that regardless of your skin color, it is your propensity to do something really, really damaging to yourself because your parents didn't know how to guide you through it. Absolutely. And give you bad advice. Here's the thing. What I'm learning about the second generation, Dave, is the first generation parent goes to school and then the parent says, all right, I want you to go to my school because if you

go to my school, you'll get better network. You get a better network to go get your dream job. So then you go to your parent's school and rack up all this debt just so i can meet dave ramsey and hopefully dave ramsey can connect me to another place to get a job which i think that is completely false as well now networking is important yeah but you if you don't need to go you don't need to spend uh 50 000 bucks to get a network no that's that's asinine that's ridiculous so the thing the thing is this so i'm generation. My mom and dad did not go to college. Okay.

So I mean, I'm first generation. My kids are second generation. Right. They went to my school. Yeah. But I did not send them there for the network. Right. I didn't even send them there because I was romantically involved with the school like

I love the University of Tennessee. And you didn't make them go there. Yeah, I did. Absolutely. I didn't know that. Absolutely. That's good to know. I told them they had to go to. Yeah, I did. Yeah, I did. Absolutely. I didn't know that. Absolutely. That's good to know. I told them they had to go to an in-state school.

Yeah. And that's like the choice. I mean, it was MTSU, Middle Tennessee State University, East Tennessee State University, or the University of Tennessee. And neither of you. Pretty well. University of Tennessee, Knoxville University of Tennessee, Chattanooga. Right.

Memphis State, right? I mean, these are your schools you're going to go to in state tuition, because I'm not going to pay out-of-state tuition, and I do not find any piece of data that says where you went to school is correlated with your success. Okay. I can't find that anywhere. That's true. Education is important.

And where you got it, turns out there's not a single piece of research that says you're more successful if you went to Harvard. Right. You can't find it. You can't. It's mythology. And Seth Godin calls it, in Borrowed Future, he doesn't call them prestigious schools. He calls them famous schools. Yeah, that's it.

They become famous. Any school can become famous. They're not necessarily better. They're become famous. Any school can become famous. But they're not necessarily better. They're just famous. Right. Oh, my kid went to such and such and such. And you paid how much to be able to make that one stupid sentence? Yeah, man.

Oh, my God. It's unbelievable. We got to talk, Dave, offline, though. You made your kids go to a school. I made them go to an in-state school, and I was paying for it, so I get the right to decide where you're going. That's right. I give you that. I have this weird thing. I think I'm in charge. Hey, it's Kelly, associate producer

and phone screener for The Ramsey Show. If you would like to do your debt-free screen live on the show, make sure you visit theramseyshow.com and register. We would love for you to come to Nashville and tell Dave your story.