The Ramsey Show - App - My Husband Cross-Dresses...Should I Stay Married? (Hour 3)

Episode Date: February 4, 2021

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🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studio, this is the Dave Ramsey Show, where America hangs out to have a conversation about your life, your work, your purpose, and your money. Sitting in for Dave, I'm Dr. John Deloney, joined here with my good friend and fellow Ramsey personality, Ken Coleman. We are taking your calls on anything, anything going on in your heart, in your mind, in your home, in your relationships, at work, in the mirror.

Give us a call, 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Let's go to Lisa in Charlotte, North Carolina. Lisa, what's going on? How can we help? Hey, good afternoon. Hope you guys are well. And also with you.

Yeah, I am calling today to just get some insight from you, Dr. Delaney, on your thoughts of the current, I hate to say trend, but I question if it's a trend of prevalence to label teenagers with anxiety, specifically girls. So do you have a particular story? Yeah, there you go. So what's going on in your home? Yeah, we've got a senior girl who had basically disappointment and sadness when they did not go back to school in the fall. And, you know, you acknowledge it. I mean, how can you not?

But has developed into the point where she asked for counseling. So, okay, you go. And the counselors are very eager to label anxiety and my husband and I we you know we question is it is it disappointment is it situational stress is it things that we view more as life moments just life yeahus mental health label kind of thing. And it's interesting, talking with other moms, the prevalence associated, whether it's stereotyping or are we not teaching our kids life moments. Yeah.

So I just wanted some insight on it and how you view that. Yeah. Lisa, you just made in one call, you pushed most every button I have, and I'm a pretty laid-back guy, and you pushed them all, so I'm going to just put it all out there. I am too. You hop in at any point. I'm going to referee. I'll throw a flag if it gets out of hand so

here's the thing a couple of different things and i'm saying this i've worked with thousands of high school and college kids over the last almost two decades 16 17 years i don't even know how long we have a culture that is over-pathologized discomfort. We are quick to label anything, like you said it perfectly, any life situation. So I'll give you an example. I can't tell you how many kids, freshman, sophomore in college, would come into my office heartbroken, weeping, real true deep pain. It's real. It hurts. And they'd say, hey, I'm depressed pain. It's real. It hurts.

And they'd say, hey, I'm depressed. I've got anxiety. And I'd say, what's going on? And they'd say, well, my dad just moved out. My parents are getting divorced. My granddad died. And often I would say, thank you for sharing that. I don't want you to walk around saying you're depressed. You're sad.

And you're supposed to be sad because your parents are getting divorced because you lost a dear grandparent. And so we are obsessed with putting a label on discomfort as though it's something we can anesthetize ourselves to that we have somehow figured out this perfect pain-free life. It doesn't exist. It's not real. So I'm 100% with you on that. I think we over-label kids. I think kids who have been stuck at home and realized, oh, my gosh, I'm not going back to school. I can't see my friends. I'm not going to get real human interaction.

Absolutely. It's devastating. And we need to sit with them and not brush it off. Oh, shake it off in my day. That's not helpful, right? Let those feelings be real and a year into sitting at home when our kids haven't seen anybody those anxiety alarms get louder and louder right because these kids are disconnected they're trying to learn in an environment if you

look at maslow's hierarchy they're they're not safe they're connected. We've got parents who are fighting and yelling in the home, or they are trying to figure out how to navigate their own work situations and financial situation, all that. So the anxiety alarms are real. And then on top of all that, we've got a culture that says that the insurance companies drive these counseling sessions and say, if there's not a diagnostic, we're not helping you pay for this. So counselors, my heart is with them too.

They are forced into a situation. This is psychologists and counselors and marriage and family therapists, social workers, everybody, that they don't get paid unless they give you a label. Have a label. Right? So everybody's hemmed in on this thing. And then there's a fourth complexity, which is sometimes it's helpful to name the dragon. Sometimes there is some peace looking at a kid saying, hey, you're not broken.

Your body's doing exactly what it's supposed to do when you find yourself alone and scared and frustrated and angry. It sounds the alarms, and that's what anxiety is. There is a time and a place for a quote-unquote anxiety diagnosis. But I am real, real slow to do that. Real slow to do that. Every good counselor that I know is real slow to do that and is real open to talking through, especially in your situation where you've got a minor,

that you should be involved in those conversations too. I am terrified of 20 years from now what it's going to look like with all these young people who have these medical charts, much of it digitized with these mental health diagnostics. When they try to go get a job, when they try to get health insurance, when they try to get life insurance, when they try to get military, so fill in the blank, right? So I'm with you. What I will tell you is this, even with an anxiety diagnosis as a mom or a dad, unless I get some very clear guidance from a

therapist that says your kid's got some severe pathology, your kid is really struggling and it needs some intervention that's more than a regular counselor can offer, I'm going to handle it the same way. I'm going to be over-intentional about connecting with my kid. I'm going to be over-intentional about listening, walking alongside. People laugh, and I get email after email about, I thought you were crazy, and this super works. Putting my hands on their hands, hands on their face looking them in

the eye and making sure they know that i love them figuring out ways that i can they can be around people their own age if we've got to do outside events depending on where we live um or we have to do them safely whatever that looks like but going out of our ways to curate connection with these kids because their anxiety alarms are real but i don't think it's a forever label that needs to be attached to them right like a like a tattoo right ken what do you think i think that what you said is absolutely right and i and i think that um just like anything if you go to a doctor many times you'll get a second opinion and i think that parents need to feel okay sometimes trusting their guts you know we know from a lot of research that when somebody trusts their gut, it's actually their head as well.

Just some good old common sense. And as a parent, I've got three teens. There are times where I've had to sit with it for a little bit. And I go, wait a second. If I remove my emotions and I use my common sense, I'm going to give my kid a second opinion. I'm going to love on them. And I'll just mention this because this is how we roll at the Coleman House. I've found that the biggest breakthroughs come when we pray and we pray without ceasing and we just pray and we pray and we pray and we don't stop praying. I think that's the wonder drug. Well, I appreciate

your heart, Lisa. Your kid's not a wimp. your kid's not well wimp your kid's not a weakling she's gonna be fine your kid's not broken forever either get her connected and stay connected imagine the day you submit the last payment on your debt and you finally have extra money to spend and save how you want for some you, that day feels like it will never come, but it doesn't have to be that way. It's a new year, and it's time for a new way of thinking. You have to believe you can get rid of debt and take control of your money, because you can, and it won't take nearly as long as you think. With Ramsey Plus, you'll learn practical ways to get small, quick wins that add up to big results fast.

We'll help you put more money back in your bank account so you can get where you want to be faster, debt-free and spending your money without worry. This year, you can make more progress on your debt and savings than you ever thought possible, and you can start today. Get Ramsey Plus so you can get started living the life you want faster. To start your free trial of Ramsey Plus, go to DaveRamsey.com slash reset. Do you feel like you'll always be stuck paying off debt? Or that you'll never have extra money to save and spend how you want?

It doesn't have to be that way. And I'm talking to you. Yes, you who's just vacuuming and you got your headphones in right now. Or you're driving across the country in a long haul truck, or you're just scrolling through YouTube, I'm talking to you. It doesn't have to be that way. You have to believe that you can get rid of this debt and take control of your money because you can.

And it's not going to take as long as you think. I've got so much in debt. I'm so much in debt. I know. And we've talked to millions of people. With Ramsey Plus, we'll kick you off with 90 days of guided help so you can put more of your money back in your bank account. You'll learn practical ways to get small, consistent wins

that add up to big results and better habits. And that means you'll get where you want to be faster. Debt-free and spending your money, get this, without worry. Another way to say that is with peace. This year, you can make more progress on your debt and saving than you ever have. Get Ramsey Plus and start living the life you want faster to start Ramsey plus get this for free text trial to three, three, seven, eight, nine. That's trial T R I a L two, three, three, seven, eight, nine. All right, let's go to Chris in Dayton, Ohio. Chris, what's up? How are we doing? Hello? Hey Chris. Hey, how are you doing? i'm doing outstanding brother how can we help uh got a quick uh just some advice questions so um i uh 33 uh my wife and three kids and we We bought my parents' farm last January. Okay.

And it's an operating small fruit and vegetable farm, about 20 acres here. I've been transitioning. We rented the farm from them for a few years, and we finally bought it. I've been transitioning from working a regular job as a diesel mechanic to being self-employed for probably about three years now. And last year, I went full-time on the farm. And this fall, I've been doing, like, I'm trying to figure out. So my dad sold me the property for $350,000. It's probably worth about $450,000 to $500,000 probably.

So he gave you a pretty good deal on it? Right. So I have some equity in the property. Okay. But I feel like I'm working my butt off just to try and stay afloat here. So I'm trying to find out if I should try a land contract also.

When you say stay afloat, you're running the farm and the money the farm is making isn't covering your bills? It does during the summertime, but I have to do something in the fall, which is fine. I don't have a problem doing that. And this is like my passion.

And the only reason that I bought it is because I got a really good deal on it and my dad was going to sell the farm, which I grew up on. So I didn't want it to be gone, you know. So let me ask you this. I wouldn't ever have this chance again. Let me ask you this. During the summer when it's paying the bills, does it also throw off enough profit to pay the bills for the whole year on the farm,

or are you having to do this remodeling to help pay the bills during the off-season? No, the farm pays for its own operating costs and pays us during the summer months. That's fantastic. Now, let me ask you this. When I do the remodeling, none of my remodeling money goes to the farm. Great. It only goes to paying our bills. Great.

And does that include you paying down the mortgage on it? Yes. So you called us for a reason. I'm not quite sure what. What are you having doubts about? You sound like you're really thinking through this. Hit me. What do you want us to speak to um so i'm just trying to uh find out like what would

you do in my situation like um i'm working really hard should i just and so here's the thing so we've kind of done the baby stuff on and off. We never really stuck with it. So I guess my question is, do I just stay with this farm and really stick to the budget and all the baby steps and make this happen, or do I try and get out of this and get a job? I can get a good-paying job and get a small house and save money really fast. So, Chris, did you buy this thing because it tugged at your heartstrings, because you had fond memories of this place, and now you're doing it full-time? You're looking at, hey, I've got 30 more years of this, and I just don't like it. It's not what I want to be doing.

Have you had a moment of clarity and honesty with yourself? No, he loves it. He said it was his passion. You love this. This is what I want to do. How much debt? Let's do a real quick analysis. How much debt do you have besides the farm? Don't give me the farm number. I have $20,000 credit card and unsecured loan debt. That's it. $20,000. And you said you're off and on, so you understand and you have at times

had momentum and you've been working the baby steps. You know what to do on the debt snowball, correct? Right. And you've got the farmers throwing off money to be able to pay you and pay its mortgage and all the expenses. I don't see it being a millstone. I don't see this being a problem. I think during the off season you're getting with it. You've already been working real hard as a farmer. I don't know anybody who a millstone. I don't see this being a problem. I think during the offseason, you're getting with it. You've already been working real hard as a farmer.

I don't know anybody who works harder than a farmer. So I'd be getting after it right now, maybe a second remodeling job, maybe a better paying job in the offseason, crush the $20,000, and then go all in on the farm. Unless I'm missing something, I think you'll regret selling the farm. Okay. And I also don't know, again, coming from a farming community, I don't know many farmers, and I'd be way wrong,

I don't know many farmers personally that do not also have something that they're doing in the off-season. Right. Yeah, I have no problem doing that. Is that land worth a lot, whether it's a farm or not? As farm ground, it's worth a decent amount in our area, yeah, about $10,000 an acre. Okay.

Because what I'm thinking through is what happens if that particular, because farming has been hit pretty hard by some of the economic policies, you know, of recent times. We're kind of a little bit different because we're more of a specialty farm. We grow vegetables, and we pretty much sell to the local economy. Which is perfect. That's awesome. We're not growing row crops at all. See, that's great.

And see, you know more about it than I do, and that's what I was trying to get at. Is this a risky or a very stable type farming product that you are putting out? And the answer is it's stable. So I think you bust it really hard in the off-season and pay that $20,000 off, and then, you know, you can still keep side-hustling it

for a while, you know, and get that emergency fund where it needs to be, put that extra on the farm. I'd try to find ways to make more money on that farm and pay that $350 off. I think that's your goal. I think you get gazelle intense, man. I don't think you sell the farm.

I think you get gazelle intense and realize that this is my dream, and I can make this dream more stable if I actually go all in on Dave Ramsey's baby steps. Make sense? Yeah. So, hey, Chris, are you – Answering my question pretty much. Chris, you're married? Yeah.

When's the last time you and your wife went on a date? A couple weeks ago. All right. So here's what I'm going to do. We love farmers, and I love giving away other people's things. So if you will commit to going all in, all in on following the baby steps starting from start to finish, you're in a rare place where your family had a farm that was able to pass through to you. You got a great deal on it. You love the work.

It's hard every day, hot and cold and dusty and dirty work, but you love it. I'm going to give you Ramsey Plus for a year. Hey, hey. And you're going to sit down and watch that with your wife. You're all going to go through it together. And I'm going to give you a ticket to date night, Money and Marriage livestream, February 12th. That's next Friday, 7 p.m., me and Rachel Cruz. We're going to be, it's an all-in date night.

You and your wife are just going to sit on the couch, turn on the TV, and it's going to be romance. We're going to make you all have to have some hard conversations, teach you guys how to dream together about money. And then I want you just to let the shackles go. We can hear it in your voice, man. Be certain you're going to be in this together. And then grow this awesome farm and then pay it off so you can hand it off to your kids. One day they're going to come here and do their debt-free scream and bring us some fresh

fruit. That's what they're going to do. That would be awesome. Huh? You like where my head's at. I love that. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. Over the years, I've heard countless horror stories from listeners about being harassed by debt collectors, receiving calls at work on their cell phones, and some even getting yelled at and threatened.

That is not okay. There are laws against this, and there are people, attorneys, that can help make this stop if they are in fact breaking the law. Go to CollectionBully.com to learn more. Fill out a quick questionnaire that will identify if you are a victim of this type of illegal harassment. That's CollectionBully.com. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. I'm John Deloney with my good friend Ken Coleman. Give us a shout at 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225.

Let's go to Lindsay in Woodbridge, Virginia. Lindsay, how are we doing? I'm good. Thank you for taking my call today. You bet. Thanks for giving us a shout. What's going on? So I have a question about baby step two and whether or not I need to put money aside for

a possible divorce. So I've been married for eight years. I have several young children. I am the working mom and then my husband is a stay-at-home dad. Great dad, really good dad. And we are really great roommates. We're best friends. We do everything together. But from the day we got married, I knew there was something wrong. I initially thought there was something wrong with me because we had no intimacy, no, you know, cuddling, just that there was something wrong. I initially thought there was something wrong with me because we had no intimacy, no, you know, cuddling, just that there was something wrong. I found out during my last pregnant just a couple years ago that he crossed dresses and he had been in a relationship with at least one other man prior to getting married to me.

Nothing after getting married to me that I know of. I can't be attracted to someone who is actively cross-dressing and he is not interested in anything without it. Okay. And so while we are really good roommates, I am very, very lonely, very lonely. And some days I just don't think I can do it. But other than that, we are really, you know, we're good friends. Our kids are happy. I don't think our kids have any clue that we have any relationship problems.

And so with us being in the middle of baby step two, we've paid off about $200,000. We have just under $200,000 to go. Are you a doctor? Yes, I am. Okay, there you go. I was going to say, man, that's a lot of student loans, right? That's a great guess.

Yes, but we're almost done. I don't know. Should I stop it and put money aside for a possible divorce, or if I am content enough, should I just keep going and keep working on the baby steps and just ignore that aspect? We have tried counseling. He's not interested in any changes. He's not interested in following up in counseling. So where does that put you? When you say possible divorce, he's not interested in any counseling. You've already expressed your

emotion and where you're at. So where are you at when you say possible divorce? While I'm content most of the time, I am so lonely sometimes. I don't know how long I can stay married to someone. Lindsay, what kind of doctor are you? I'm primary care. Okay. So I'm going to speak to you like a fellow geek for a second. Is that okay?

Uh-huh. Mm-hmm. You know the JAMA, the Journal of American Medical Association, you know the diseases of despair data, don't you? Yes. We are amidst a loneliness epidemic that is killing us through all sorts of chaotic inflammatory responses, right? Whether it is addiction or whether it is people taking their own lives or whether it is what the articles are calling long-tail suicide through organ disease failure, right?

Mm-hmm. And so I'm just speaking geek to you for a second as a way to soften the blow here, but you can't live a life of loneliness. Yeah.

Just because he's a great father, just because y'all are great roommates, doesn't mean that you've got to stay married and you've got to stay lonely, right? Part of a marriage is two people working together

to co-create a future. And I don't care what the other, like the fact that he has been with other people, the fact that he has been with other people, the fact that he has a way of showing his authenticity to himself, to his core group of people, and you have said, I don't want to be a part of that moving forward,

and he has said, well, tough luck, then I don't want to be the one to tell you this, Lindsay, but you called the show. He has said, my authenticity in this moment is more important than being married to you. Yeah, that's a really nice way of saying that. I'm going to jump in and say he's made it very clear he doesn't want to be married to you he doesn't want to fix it this is a whole different deal or he wants to be married

on his terms right i can't i just don't that's not being married so there is a relationship contract it's not a legal document. Me, I think married is we're married. Together, that's right. No, it's not just in the same house. This guy may be a fantastic roommate, but you're going to crash. You're going to crash hard. You have crashed, haven't you? Might have.

I was admitted for depression a couple of years ago, but I've gotten to the point where I recognize it wasn't my failing in the marriage. I gave it everything I had. Sure. Yeah. So what's left?

What are you waiting on? It's hard to do it looking at my kids. Yeah, it is. Yeah, that's true. Let's talk about the financial piece, John, here, because you've got $200,000 left. So, yeah, we want you to pause because you're in the midst of a really big storm and so you need to pause paying off the the debt snowball until we until we figure out the when the how yeah what's that gonna look like i mean it's just too uncertain so we want to

pause right that's the financial piece the financial piece is um yes you got to pause the baby steps and because you have a as in to use your words because y'all are still best friends because you've got a good relationship you can sit down and have this it's going to be a very hard very challenging but a factual conversation here's where we are at and i'm not willing to continue to be lonely inside my own home anymore. And you've made it clear that you're not interested in co-creating a future together with me. And so as Ken said, as I said, your husband's painted the picture for you, right? And now, not by your hand, but in your lap, now you're forced to make some hard decisions. And here's where we are. And I don't know that you're going to find two people more high on

marriage than Ken and I. Um, I'm not in the business of telling people in their marriage, but I am in the business of telling the truth. And the reality is Lindsay, you've told me your marriage is over and that it is at this point it's drowning you. Yeah. And I'm not going to sit by and watch a friend be drowned. So, yeah, as far as the money goes, hard conversation. You've got to pause the baby steps. You're all going to have to make some hard decisions about how you're going to move forward together, how you're going to work out the parenting. All that stuff is going to have to happen together.

This is not going to be an easy road moving forward. I hope everybody can act like an adult and y'all can work together in this transition. And I always, always, always am going to circle back to my hope for reconciliation, for people to come together. But you've been doing that for a long time. And so it's time to call what it is, what it is, and make the hard decisions together. And then continue to honor each other around your kids. Don't ever, ever, ever be in the bad-mouthing game, either of you. Honor each other in front of your kids, and this is going to be a hard, hard season to walk. And I want to thank you for honoring us with your trust here. I know this is a hard call to make, and we'll be thinking about you moving forward.

Yeah, and I would just say this, that you've done some great things in paying off $200,000 worth of debt. You're going through some extremely, extremely painful stuff personally. Pressing pause, don't feel guilty for that for a second. Work through all this that John said, and then there's going to be a season where you'll be able to pick back up and you'll get there. And hopefully it's whole in a healthy relationship where you're not alone. So don't second guess it. Let's, and Ken, I think it's important to not let people off the hook here. It's easy to hear a call like this and go, I don't know anybody who dresses women's clothes

or who feels this way or is attracted to people. I get this call all the time, Ken, about video games and about alcohol and about spending money and about having to have another car in a house this size where you get somebody who's married and the person they're married to says, I'm doing my life this way without you. That's right. That's exactly right. Without you. Yeah, that's right.

Really, the details and the sensational, whatever you think is sensational, whether you don't think it's sensational or not. The fact of the matter is, is when one of the spouses says, I'm not interested in counseling, which means I'm not interested in reconciliation. I'm not interested in you. And they've been unfaithful. Then, you know. It's not by your hand, but in your lap. And you've got some hard decisions to make.

So you've been forced to deal with it. And so you don't quit living. You keep moving. I hate that for her. I really do. And the kids. Stay in there, Lindsey. Stay in there. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Our scripture of the day is 1 John 3.20.

For whenever our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and he knows everything. Rosa Parks says, stand for something or you will fall for anything. Today's mighty oak is yesterday's nut that held its ground. That's a great quote. All right, let's go to Kurt in Columbus, Ohio. Kurt, how are we doing? I'm doing well. How are you doing today?

Outstanding, brother. How can we help? So I'm fairly new to the whole Dave Ramsey program, trying to figure out the best way to attack my debt. I am currently engaged. Me and my fiance are going to get married in June. And so I have roughly about $8,000 in a car loan that I'm working on paying off. Hopefully, without getting crazy with that, I should be able to pay that off in like a year and a half. She's going to have about $40,000 in student loans. I know I have about $18,000 in investments that I've been thinking about selling off to pay off

the car. I know she has about $10,000 in her savings account. My question was, should I hold on to selling what I have in the stock market to wait to pay off her student loans because we have six months of interest free with those? Or should I go ahead and sell to pay off the car loan faster and then we'll be paying on the student loans for, I'm figuring, for about eight months to a year after we get married? Do you have single stocks in the stock market, or are you talking about cashing out a retirement plan? No, that's separate from what I have in my retirement. That would just be non-retirement investments. Like what?

It's just S&P. The stock's SPY. It's just a mutual fund tracker. So how much is it worth if you cashed in today? What are we talking about, that stock? It's just over, if I sold everything, it'd be just over $18,000. Yeah, but you're going to take a hit. Are you going to take a no-no hit on that?

Okay, so he's going to get that. So how much is the car worth? The car, I owe about eight on it, but the car, if I would sell it, I could sell it for about 15. Hey, I like that better. Yes. I like that better. But you could sell the single stock.

Yeah, I'm selling every single stock I got, and I'm going to pay off stuff. If you can get money for your car and get into a cheaper car, but yeah, sell your single stocks today and get out and pay your debt off smallest to largest. Don't overcomplicate this system. You're somebody that loves the adventure and the risk and coming up with a scheme, aren't you? It's not a bad thing. Hey brother, I'm the same way, dude. I can't tell you when me and my wife were going through this, I had, hey, brother, I'm the same way, dude. I can't tell you. When me and my wife were going through this, I had, hey, listen, honey, I figured out a new way to sideways this deal and to go around the loop-de-loops and do somersault.

Here's the thing, man. Put your debts in order, smallest to largest. Get a $1,000 emergency fund, which is going to freak you out. Cash out your single stocks and pay this stuff off. Yeah, so let's run through these numbers. Okay, so you said that you can sell the single stocks and get $18,000, correct? Yeah. All right, so the cars, you got $8,000 debt, so that's going to leave you $10,000 left over.

You're going to put the $1,000 into emergency funds, so that gives you $9,000, right? Right. Okay, and the cars paid off. I'd save the $9,000, and when we actually walked down the aisle, I'd put the $9,000 on there for her. That's going to knock it down to $31,000 for her student loans, and then you guys attack that remaining $31,000 with a vengeance. You guys are going to pay that off quick.

You had a payoff date of about eight, nine months, I thought you said, correct, for the $40,000? Yes. She has about $10,000 in her own savings, and I've talked to her, and she's getting on board. Done. Oh,000. Yes. She has about $10,000 in her own savings. I've talked to her and she's getting on board. Done. Oh, hello. So now we take her $10,000 because you've got the $1,000 that John had you put away.

So now I've got that at about $21,000 if I did my math right. And then you've got two incomes. Y'all are going to crush this. You're not going to do anything dumb like go buy an eight-bedroom house your first two weeks of being married. You're going to go be smart. Eight-bedroom house. You're going to use both incomes. You're going to knock this out in ASAP.

Yeah. And then you're going to be able to breathe. And then you're going to be able to enjoy your marriage debt-free with no strings, no chains, no nothing. That's how you do it. All right. Yeah, man. Now it's $21,000. After you make all those moves, you're only going to have $21,000 to attack together.

That's great. Or you can do this, Kurt. You can hang on to that stock, and in six months, it's going to drop in half, and then you're going to be calling us back going, hey, how do I figure this one out too, right? Hey, you know what to do. You're a smart guy. Put all your creative energy in wooing and falling deeper in love with your wife.

Follow the plan that millions have followed step by step by step. And I want to point something out. I misunderstood for a second, but it's like I heard that retirement, never, ever, ever cash out retirement. No. Never, ever, ever, ever cash out 401k or retirement funds to pay off debt. Okay, that's where you take the tax hit and you end up not doing it. So just want to be clear because we have a lot of new listeners come in there. You don't touch that.

But the stocks, yes, that's a good move. Great move, actually. Playing single stocks. Yeah, that's risky as it is. Most people lose their shirt on that deal. Yeah. So there you go. All right, let's take one more quick call to Luke in Meridian, Idaho.

Luke, are you anywhere near Pocatello? About three hours away. That's what I'm talking about. Hey, hold up. Listen, we had a good friend here from Pocatello that called. His name is Nick Fowers. He sent us some Pocatello high school gear. We need to give quick context and then get to the call.

We had Nick on, what, a week ago when we were on together? And we love the name Pocatello so much, we got excited about it because we both have ADHD. And I said, is there a Pocatello High School? He said, yes. I said, I'd love some memorabilia. I was totally goofing off. Nick sent you a t-shirt and sent me this hoodie.

So there you go. He hooked us up. So shout out to Nick for the free hoodie. That's right. So Luke, that's not why you called. I just got excited because you're near Pocatello, my third or fourth favorite city in the country now. But you can save Meridian here.

How can we help? Yeah, so I'm just looking for some advice on some opportunities that opened up. So basically, I had an internship over in the uk that opened up recently um that i got into um about something that i'm like pretty passionate about um but i also have applications currently into uh west point and the naval academy whoa um and so basically i would leave in april and then um if i got into the academies i would come back in June. So I was just wondering if I should take that or just like stay home and enjoy my time before I make

a pretty big commitment to West Point or the Naval Academy. Well you applied for this internship because you wanted to do it and you thought it might be good for you. Yes or no? Yeah. It's in the UK. That's pretty cool too. Great experience. yes or no

yeah i think you do it you haven't given me one good reason why you shouldn't do it other than you're going to be going away and i understand that so it's like if you're worried about friends and family and if that's your heart tugging at you i think you listen to that too what's really making you doubt the decision to take this internship and go to the UK? The financial part of it, I guess, is part of it. I have the money to do it. It's just going to come to my savings because I have about $15,000 saved right now. Does it put you on the path? Does this internship, is it going to help you in the future?

Yes, kind of. Okay. I mean, here's the deal if if if you've got the money for it and it is a good experience for you and it actually something that will add value to your long-term goals i'd do it but if it's just a pure fun thing and you then you've got to weigh it you've got to weigh it what would you rather have at the end of this time? The experience and less money? Or more money and no experience? I think that's what it boils down to, unless I'm missing something.

So what are you leaning towards right now? I'm leaning more towards just doing it for at least two months and then going to West Point or the Naval Academy. I just come home a little bit earlier than I normally would. Do it. John, what do you think? bit earlier than I normally would. Do it. John, what do you think? For sure, man. Yeah.

Great experience. You're going to miss out on like, all right, bros, let's all go. Or an awesome opportunity. Right? Okay. I think one of the greatest, greatest experiences that any human being can have is to see the world. Yep. To go to other cultures.

See it, smell it, taste it. Blew my mind the first time I got out of America, and I got to see large parts of the world, and I was like, ooh, I'm really small. You're not in Kansas anymore, Toto. That's exactly right. I'd like to thank James Childs and Kelly Daniel for putting on another great show. Thank you so much for being with us, America. Ken, appreciate you.

Always fun. This has been the Dave Ramsey Show. Have a friend or family member that needs a daily dose of Ramsey advice in their life? Let them know about the Ramsey Call of the Day podcast. It's a quick hit of advice about life and money in under 10 minutes. Check out the Ramsey Call of the Day podcast wherever you listen to podcasts.