The Ramsey Show - App - My Husband Gave Me an Ultimatum (Hour 2)

Episode Date: May 21, 2020

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. My co-host today on the Dave Ramsey Show, Ramsey personality Dr. John Deloney, as we take your questions about life and about money. If you've got questions about things you're facing during the pandemic, maybe you've got things going on in your life regarding relationships and relationship IQs of you or people connected to you,

Dr. John's here to help, and we're certainly here to help with your money questions. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Avery starts us off this hour in South Carolina. Hi, Avery. How are you? Hey, guys. Thanks for taking my call. Sure.

What's up? Yeah, so I just have a quick question. So should I continue my MBA program and pay for it by taking out student loans? The reason I ask that is because besides the student loans for this MBA program, I do not have any other debt. So I paid off my car at the beginning of this year. During my undergrad, I had a military and an athletic scholarship, so they took care of my undergrad.

And with my credit cards, I never really used credit cards. So when I started following you, I only had like $100 in credit cards. So I just went ahead and paid it off and cut them credit cards up. Yeah. Good. You're making a lot of progress until it came to your mba and then you decided that was worth going into debt for i don't um so how far into the mba are you so right now i'm in my third class out of 12 so what's that about one fourth in yeah right now

and you paid for it how so far um so i took out the loan, a student loan, to pay for the first semester. So I took out, I think it was like $4,700, but I then paid that loan down to like $3,300 as I got remaining on that student loan for that first semester. So are you working? Yes. So I currently work for a state agency in South Carolina, and this is why the question came to me. It's because I had an interview with the state agency late of 2019,

and I did not get the job. And so when I asked the person, you know, afterwards when you email what are the things that I need help with with the interview process or you know why didn't i get the job um he basically said that the other applicant got the job because he held a master's degree like you held a bachelor's degree and so what do you make first what do you make so right now i average around 39 000 um a year what was that job paying and that job was paying 48 000 a year so with the 39 000 that i average um that also is including my military part-time so i'm in the national guard part-time yeah how old are you for my job i'm 24 oh okay cool all right well an entry-level mba might be about like that an mba

should be worth a lot more than that way way which doesn't surprise me that a state job is not paying as much as a free market job does so you probably almost double the numbers you're dealing with at least uh when if you you know go into the private sector rather than into a state job. And, oh, by the way, when you're in the private sector, they're a lot more concerned whether you can actually do the freaking job rather than whether you have a degree. So very few times do you get passed over, except in large companies with lots of bureaucracy, very few times do you get passed over for something if you've got the skills if you've got the skills now sometimes the mba will

give you the skills uh where are you studying which school at limestone college okay all right and so let's do the budget what does it take to finish the mba right so I did all that, and I came up to $17,000. Okay. So you need $17,000. Over how many months? And the MBA program as a whole, it takes 22 months to complete. Okay. So by the end of 2021.

So you need $1,000 a month. Right. Yes, sir. Okay. Now, what do we do? We look at your current budget. We tighten it down. You've already paid off debts.

You already didn't have debts, so you are already controlling your money. You've got $39,000. It sounds like you're a single 24-year-old. Yes. I'm going to be on beans and rice, rice and beans, and I'm going to find $500 out of that budget or more, and I'm going to take a part-time job for the rest of it and cash flow this puppy.

Okay. And can I tell you something else, Avery? You are – so I've worked at a bunch of colleges and had a number of conversations across the country about the NBA stuff. I can tell by the work you've put in, you're a part-time guard. You have already done the math on your MBA, which I've known guys who earn six figures, and I ask them, how much are you paying for your MBA?

And they're like, I don't know, man. Just getting the MBA. You have the skills, the drive, and the talents. This MBA is going to make way more sense to you if you've got a couple years of working under your belt. And I know you've already started, and I don't know what that does to the credits and how long you can hang on to them and whatnot but i was even at one major university i worked at they just stopped letting people come straight

from their bachelor's through their mba program because it just didn't make any sense because the the things you were learning mba only made sense if you had work industry experience that you could balance against that knowledge that makes makes so much more sense. Right. For sure. It's just wisdom. You, man, I'm telling you right now, you got bad advice on the NBA. I'm surprised. I was shocked.

I thought you were going to tell me you were five years older the way you carry yourself. God almighty, dude. Yeah, you really are carrying yourself very well. You're very poised. You got your act together, dude. So just don't fall in the same hole that all of America's fallen into here, and that's the student loan debacle um and and so a couple of points mba is a good degree it's not a left-handed puppetry degree it's got a use in the marketplace you will pick up skills that you can use very few places require an mba to be successful business. You just have to be successful in business.

And then the MBA is not a problem. I've got folks on our team that have MBAs. I've got folks on our team that didn't graduate from four years that those MBAs report to. So it is all about performance in the marketplace when you're in the free market. Now, if you're in a huge bureaucracy, like a state government or a big company,

sometimes they're more political, and it's all about checking boxes on uh advanced degrees and so forth uh i don't have an mba john's got two phds i've got a phd in dumb that's all i got so uh but you know the uh so you know you just you it's all about getting the performance done in the business world, and you're talking about business. This is a master's in business. So what's it take to do that? So this is a great degree. It is not a panacea. It is not what's holding you back.

It is worth the money, but it's not worth borrowing for. None of them are. So save up, work your way through, cash flow it, take six jobs, be the weird guy who doesn't get any sleep for the next 22 months. So save up, work your way through, cash flow it, take six jobs, be the weird guy who doesn't get any sleep for the next 22 months. You'll be 26 years old with a paid-for MBA. And a few more years of work experience. The things that happen to you during that time are going to make you very valuable. Yeah.

Very good stuff. What a stud, man. I like Avery. Yeah, a good guy. Good guy. Well done. This is the dave ramsey folks i love telling you about well-made well-thought-out products today i'm talking about grip six belts i don't know about you but I'm not a fan of traditional belts. They never fit right, and they're uncomfortable. Grip 6 belts are unique. Owner BJ designed a truly modern,

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Hey, Amanda. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. How can Dr. John and I help? Hi. Thank you. Can you hear me okay? We can. You bet.

Okay, great. Well, just at a high level, my husband posed sort of an ultimatum to me back in December, which was, you know, you stay here in Atlanta and figure out how to make your own way or move with me to Chattanooga, which is about 100 miles away. we've been married over nine years we have a seven-year-old daughter I'm a contractor and I don't know if I'm going to continue on past June I but now I'm interviewing for other roles like at CDC and Georgia Pacific and my husband who's educated just kind of wants to leave his job and pivot in his career and figure out what he wants to do. But he feels like just getting out of the city and moving to Tennessee is better because his parents have passed on. They've left him five paid off properties. One is like a main house that he's saying we could live in. There's four rental properties. And he just wants to kind of be debt free and move away. And I'm scared to death because my life and my career and my opportunities for job opportunities

are here in Atlanta. So I lost a lot of sleep over this over the past few months, but thank you for taking my call. So how's your marriage? Sucks. You know, it's hard when your husband is kind of, you know, I feel like the most important thing to him is to be debt-free, and I only have one debt, which is a $42,000 student loan that, you know, I want to pay off. No, no, no, I'm not talking about that. Okay. There's something not whole here yeah people don't just come in and go i'm gonna leave if you want to come with me that'll be great that doesn't happen in a good marriage or when they do they've

reached yeah that's the end of the road for them that's the end of the line is it that kind of ultimatum or is it more of an ingest, hey, let's just do this? I'm trying to get a gauge from you. Is your marriage in real trouble? It might be. No, you know, you know, you know, not might be. Is your marriage in real trouble? Yeah, I would say it is.

We've tried to get counseling, but my husband just wants to leave, and he's like, spend for yourself unless you move out here with me. Yeah, this doesn't have anything to do with real estate. It's cool that you've got five paid-off properties. And it doesn't even have anything to do with him being willing to leave. It's got to do with him wanting to leave you. Yeah. There's a disconnect between the two of you that's way bigger than real estate. Do you want to stay married?

Do you want to stay married to him? Do you love this guy? I love him, and I would have been willing to consider things if he had more of a strategy other than I'm quitting my job and moving there and just, you know. Yeah, I don't, with all due respect, Amanda, I don't think you're hearing what Dave and I are saying. You're talking about strategies and plans

and what's it going to be like to be a landlord versus I'm applying for a new job. That's not what we're talking about. Like your marriage is on fire. And somebody who has been married to you for the better part of a decade has said, I've found another train now, and it's not a her that you know of, but it's an opportunity. I'm out. You're welcome to get

on the train if you want, but I'm out. That is not a real estate issue. That is a, are we going to make this, are we going to continue to make a go with this? And that's why I'm asking you, are you interested in your marriage? Do you still love this guy? He doesn't propose an ultimatum like this unless the marriage has degraded far enough that his vision of his life in Chattanooga is better than being married to you. Otherwise, you don't throw an ultimatum up like that. Because here's the thing. Let's say that you were dumb enough to go okay if that's the case the

only way we can stay married is i'll go then guess what when you get up there you're still married to the exact same guy that was willing to walk away from you the worst part about moving is that you go with you and that was that would just be weird so the problem in in this whole discussion is not whether it's correct to stay in atlanta with your career aspirations and those to be respected and heard by him. And it's not whether it's whether his goals are being debt free and taking the family inheritance that he's gotten and starting a new life in Tennessee versus Atlanta is correct. Neither one of those are wrong. The ultimatum is what's wrong. And quite honestly, you're indifference to the ultimatum.

Yeah, like you didn't hear it. You didn't hear what it meant. No, believe me, I've cried myself to sleep many nights. So I'm just at a point where I'm like, well, maybe it makes sense to go with them and continue to. It might. It might. It might. I've made the same concession. I lived in Houston, which is similar to Atlanta.

I loved it. And then we had an opportunity. My wife asked if I was interested in moving to a city similar to Chattanooga in Texas. And we had a discussion about it. We did it as a team, and then we moved together as a team. And so what I'm saying to you is you've got to decide if you want to stay in this marriage, number one. Number two, you've got to sit down with your husband. And I'm telling you right now, it's 10x what you think it is. The journey back to each

other is going to be long. And you've got to re-communicate, reconnect, and get with a professional to help you walk alongside each other back together. And the reason is that no one does an ultimatum like this unless it's really bad already. The ultimatum is not an indication of he wants to go to Chattanooga. It's an indication of he doesn't care whether you go or not. That's what's scary here. And if you hear in your voice, if you hear in your voice if you hear in your heart i'd rather stay in atlanta i kind of want him to go then that's that's a conversation you gotta have with yourself and with your counselor with your husband and if you say i'm willing to drop all of this and go there then that tells me you still have some fire in your belly about your

marriage and you need to sit down and look him in the eye and say let's make this right and let's make this whole yeah because he doesn't no i don't i don't want to go to chattanooga with this in this condition that it's in absolutely not you got to fix this marriage before you'd make the commitment to go you can't just go to go along go to go along is not going to work because what's broken will still be broken when you do that because you know i gotta tell you man if if this happened in my house you know either way either one of us would go you gotta be good felicia that's right really you really think you're that important don't you you know i mean that would not go well no and and but it's an indication that it already isn't going well. But the beauty is, time and time and time and time again, couples face these crossroads,

and they both let their air out of their lungs, and they look at each other and say, let's do this. Let's reconnect. I'm fine if you live in Atlanta or Chattanooga as long as you heal your marriage first. There you go. And your marriage is probably worth it. Oh, it's worth healing. But this is the fire alarm that's not going off. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. Business leaders, now more than ever, we need people with the right skills to support our communities,

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or essential service job for free or if you're in another industry and have hiring needs, visit linkedin.com slash ramsey linkedin.com slash ramseys and conditions apply. Dr. John Deloney joining us as my co-host today on The Dave Ramsey Show. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Okay, I don't think I got where I wanted to go completely on that last call. I somehow didn't get the line there. And I know I didn't connect. The light bulb never went on over her head.

I know I didn't connect. The light bulb never went on over her head. I know that. So let's kind of walk that through from a relationship IQ perspective. Okay. He comes in and says, I'm going to Chattanooga. You want to come? Fine. You don't want to come? Fine. Just let me know.

But I'm leaving. So let's back up even before that. His parents die. Right. Okay. So let's back up even before that. His parents die. Right. Okay. So that's... The family home's up there. It's debt-free.

He has a desire to be debt-free. He's got five family homes. He's been living in a city, maybe working with... Living in a place he doesn't want to to support her dreams, wife's dreams. I'm making up a narrative here. Okay. But he's got a trauma. And then...

Ah. Trauma activates this. Something falls from the sky. And he has a decision now where he says says i've been in this a decade i see the trajectory on this thing i've got a chance to do something different which is a common seven to ten year marriage itch right that's what they call it and add to that a trauma that activates it there you go okay but even with that even with the trauma and even with the standard itch. It's often a light bulb, right?

Yeah. But even with that, he doesn't suddenly come to the place. And that's what was bothering me. Because he, you know, in other words, at some point he was trying to talk to her and she just wasn't going to listen. And he finally reached the end of that and just went, well, look. Now a train showed up to take him out of town. No, yeah, but I mean, the communication was broken before we got to the ultimatum.

Way before the ultimatum. Way, way, way before. Breakdown in their relationship way before. Breakdown of trust. Because I can't imagine doing that sharon and i have made a lot of very painful and difficult decisions that the other one didn't want to do necessarily and it just took a while to get there but there was always a respect of the other person's viewpoint there was always a connectivity a sense of dignity and even when we were fighting about it that was there because there's an underlying foundation that we may disagree but he's not trying to hurt

me or he's not trying to bury me or she's not trying to you know but but she's not going to leave it sounded like that that uh a little bit like one possible narrative uh to go with you it would match with yours actually is that he's been saying for years, I want to get out of debt, and she's been sitting on a student loan and wouldn't talk about it. Or I don't like living in the city. He's been saying, I hate Atlanta. I want to get out of here. And she's been going, I don't hate it.

And he's been going, you know, and so he's not heard, in a sense. And he went, well, you're not listening to me. So I'm leaving, by the way, and going to Chattanooga. But the point is, it's not the debt-free thing. It's not the inheritance that caused this. It's not even, you know, the difference in size and lifestyle between Chattanooga and Atlanta, which is substantial. It's a splinter in a relationship that started years ago that has turned into a gulf. And then she's sitting there going, I don't think i want to leave my job and we couldn't even get her to talk about the relationship being screwed up well and and i thought about that over

the break too and i i want to give her grace and and understand there is a point when when you are blindsided or you are unaware and you go into fix-it mode, right? Your brain goes to math. You go to fight, flight, or freeze and you're frozen. You're just trying to solve a math problem right now. And that's what I was trying to do was get her out of a math problem and say, whoa, whoa, whoa. Your sidewalk that you're walking on doesn't exist anymore. And if you don't want it to, that's one thing.

If you do, stop talking about money. Don't talk about getting out of debt and life in Atlanta versus Chattanooga, career versus not. The guy that you married, that you said forever to. With a seven-year-old kid. Is yelling through a megaphone at you, I'm out, and you're welcome to come. And that's the heartbreaking part of that for me. That's when you put all your career stuff down and all of your dreams and ambitions,

and you look somebody in the eye and you hold their hands and say, what happened? Where are we? And let's reconnect this thing. Yeah. And you really get in some pretty intensive marriage counseling. You've got to have somebody. At this point, you've got to have somebody walk along with you. And then the career stuff and the where do we want to live stuff. You can add that stuff back on the plate.

But right now, it's got to be you clean the plate off. Absolutely. Because the plate, you know, if you keep moving that food around, it's not going anywhere. Right. So you can just discuss this crap. You know, it's as if, you know, well, he listens to Dave Ramsey and he wants to get out of debt. Worse than he wants to be married to me. No.

He just didn't want to be married to you. And I think that any time somebody blames Dave Ramsey. Well, she didn't. Right, right, right. But she blamed his desire to get out of debt. And that's like, again, going back to the first caller of the day, that's like yelling at the fire alarm to stop yelling so loud and not realize the kitchen's on fire and there's smoke everywhere, right?

That's so interesting. So interesting. We talk to so many on here that are, you know, how do I get my spouse involved? How do I get my spouse on board which is a much healthier question oh man you know it's like yeah i i really want to do this and i really want them to come with me and i'm not threatening to go without them and i almost hear in that question how do i get them on board a i won't do this if it's going to cost me then all right i can't go without them and i me then. I can't go without them.

And I always tell them, you shouldn't go without them because it's not going to work. It's not going to work anyway, right? It's not going to work anyway, yeah. So very interesting. Very interesting. All right, Josh is with us. Josh is in Michigan. Hi, Josh.

Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave and John. How are you guys doing? Better than we deserve. What's up? Good. All right, so my wife and I are on baby step two. We're working the debt snowball. The household income is about $63,000 a year. We've got about $45,000 in debt.

And my question is, I've got a decent-sized family. I've got five siblings, and then, of course, my parents, and then my wife has a couple of kids, so they're my stepchildren. And my question for you is I just wanted your input on making room in the budget for gift-giving during the debt snowball, and what are your thoughts on that? Gift-giving like to family members? Yeah, so like for birthdays and Christmas and that kind of thing. That's a great question, Josh. I can tell you what we did uh it was very minor for adults uh children uh it was a little bit less minor but still fairly minor so like sharon's got

a bunch of brothers and sisters and we always bought like um all the brother-in-laws sisters and everybody a gift all these adults are unwrapping gifts all the way around the room. And we came in at Thanksgiving before Christmas, and we said, guys, we're drawing names this year. And they said, well, we might not want to. And I said, but we are drawing names this year because we are not buying all your gifts. We are what's known as broke. And right now you're broke. And so buying your brother-in-law, who you see once a year, a $20 tie at Christmas is ridiculous.

So we are drawing names. As a matter of fact, the Ramsey family to this day, my kids have the money, and they draw names for each other just because it's just too much stuff. But little babies having a birthday, a 4-year-old having a birthday party, and you want to buy a $20 toy, I'm much more happy for that than I am this. But this idea that you need to buy somebody $1,000 or something, absolutely not. You're freaking broke.

And, Josh, I'll tell you, I'm getting old now. I remember a gift I got. It was a sign to baseball by Nolan Ryan when I was a little, little kid. I remember that one. But you know what I remember? I remember the Christmas events. I remember that one but you know what I remember I remember the Christmas events I remember the birthday events and I remember

my uncle Tom my uncle Bob my uncle Jim my uncle Bill my aunt Jane I remember them loving me and I know they got me stuff and I don't remember it that well you got stretch arm strong you know you did I love stretch arm strong I love them and I remember the laughter and the smiles and the engagement,

and I don't remember the knickknacks. And right now, at your debt level to income ratio, at what you and your wife are trying to do, you've got two kids of your own, I'm going to tell you to have fun adventures, be the fun uncle, smile a lot, be silly, be engaged, but the little knick-knacky stuff, man,

that's going to cost you more than it's going to help you. My kids used to, I mean, we had Uncle Mac and for my kids, one of my brother-in-laws

and he would go to the dollar store and spend 30 bucks. I bet they loved him. And he was king of the world. Of course he was. Pissed me off. Yeah.

I spent 100 bucks and this guy spent 30 bucks and he's king of the world. Water balloons. Uncle. Pissed me off. Yeah. I spent $100, and this guy spent $30, and he's king of the world. Water balloons. Uncle Mac, the happy guy. And I'm just like, I'm going to kill him. We love you, Uncle Mac. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Business leaders make your life easier with FreshBooks.

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Better than I deserve. What's up? All right. So I need help today finding a balance between showing my husband respect in his biblical role as the head of our household and standing up, I guess to say, against financial decisions that he's wanting to make for our family that I'm really concerned about. We are on baby step 3B and are on track to have a good down payment, 20% down by next summer. So we still have some time, but he is very adamant, he tells me, about getting a 30-year mortgage. He's very familiar with your baby steps and the financial plans that you teach. And I've sat down with him to share my fears and concerns about the 30-year versus the 15. And we ran the numbers and we've seen, you know, in the long term, how much we can be saving with a 15-year mortgage, but he is still very much against the higher monthly payments. And

recently, he's also been trying to get me on board with doing one of those first-time homebuyer programs where you put zero percent down and again I've talked with him about my my concerns and fears with that but now he's concerned that I am seemingly unwilling to compromise on the Dave Ramsey plan and so I don't really know what to do going forward and I kind of of feel stuck. Okay, to start with, it's not the Dave Ramsey plan. It's just you have a viewpoint on money, and he has a different one. You know, we're not going to allow the plan or me to be the villain. That's silly. But the argument is really he wants to do a 30-year

and he wants to do a first-time homebuyer plan. You want to do a 15. Translation, he's got house fever and wanting to buy a bigger house than you are. Yes. That's what this really is. And there's more to it than this, isn't there, Olivia? Maybe. Not maybe, but yes. I can hear it in your voice what is this shining a light on

i don't i don't know how long have you been married uh it'll be a year next month this is our first fight, I guess. Yeah. Thank you. I'm sorry. I can hear the heartbreak in your voice. I just thought we were more on the same page with money. Sure. I guess this is, yeah.

So what's a disagreement you all have at your house look like when you come to terms, when you come to collaborative terms together? You have other disagreements at the house on any number of things? Where are you going to eat? No. No, you're just on the same page all good? We're on the same page on everything except for this. So I'm going to tell you something crazy. This can be a great moment for you two.

How you honor one another, how you respect each other, and how you work together on the other end of this deal. Dave, she mentioned out of the gate this idea of head of household and decisions. I've seen that just tragically abused over the years, that sentiment,

this idea of 51-49 voting power or I get the final say. What does that mean to you? Well, it always comes up when it's being used as a weapon. Yes. That's the only time it comes up um and so you know when uh you know sharon is about as strong-willed a woman as you'll ever run into and and very bright so i got there's two problems right so not going to be manipulated and not going to be told what to do uh and yet on occasion she because of other everything else is right, but I don't ever tell her I'm head of the house.

That just really wouldn't work. To me, head of the household means... But guess what? I get to be. You know? Right. To me, that phrase, head of the household, means... That means I'm in charge of serving everybody. To serve everybody.

I'll carry the burden. I get to serve everybody i'll carry the burden i get to i get to serve everyone here and the problem is is that the people i'm serving in in the case of of you olivia is that um you don't feel like you're being served you feel like he's being served in other words he's buying a house that he wants that you feel like you can't afford. And so, you know, this is more like a dictatorship than it is a thing. And that's what's breaking down here. So what John said earlier, though, is fabulous, because this is, if you guys can sit down with your pastor or a good marriage counselor

and develop some tools for handling conflict that don't involve you automatically foregoing your intelligence or your analysis of something in the name of him being the head of the household, but instead he actually is serving the household and has made a very good case that that uh instead of just getting his way but if you can learn how to work through conflict together here this could be a real wonderful opportunity because you haven't had enough conflict it sounds like you agree on everything that's just kind of ridiculous we don't agree on anything but it's like you know we argue about everything but we're hillbillies so that's okay we that's how we express love but uh but i'll tell you this olivia i especially out of the gate i mean i i can hear the pain in your voice um i know this is

heavy they don't make light of it this first fight is what is challenging yeah but what's part of what's heavy i think if i'm hearing you right olivia is you have this deep desire there's two different principles you're trying to adhere to at the same time and they're in conflict with each other. You want to adhere to the principle of honoring your husband's position and you want to adhere to the principle that your brain is telling you is the right thing to do with money. And those are both things. And so, you know, in other words...

I'll throw a third one in there. I bet you feel a responsibility to be the peacekeeper in that house too. Yeah. Oh. And that will break a woman's soul. Is this felt need to make peace and to give up on herself and what she knows to be right in service to let's just not ruffle the feathers. Okay. Men, there's a wonderful book out that my friend Ed Gritch did called Love and Respect.

Men have this huge desire for respect. Women have this huge desire to be loved. And he goes through and does a wonderful job of unpacking that. But respect is not acquiescing and uh parking your brain at the door and uh it's not it's not abandoning you know let's take it to an extreme okay it's not this but let's just say he decided i think doing cocaine is really cool you know now are you supposed to respect and go along with that in the name of him being the head of the household? No.

That's asinine. Of course not. Okay? And so that's the same decision-making paradigm that we're coming into here. You've got a thing where you're looking at him going, no, that's dumb. But I want to respect you and give you the dignity of this but you know me going along with you doing something dumb is not honoring the position of head of household right Olivia your voice is important I'm so glad he's lucky to have married somebody with a brain

yeah and somebody who's got a tender spirit values your relationship what a gift you are what a gift you are find somebody that you can mediate that conversation and blame it on some knuckle-headed pseudo doc on the radio you can say hey some guy said we need to go talk to somebody um help you navigate the tools the help you navigate the the boundaries of this first this first discussion this first disagreement and values um and if you guys can develop a model for solving conflict that doesn't always end in, well, you have to go along because I'm ahead of the household, then you're developed a cool model. You've won.

You've won. Yeah. That's worth it here. That's more important than a 15-year mortgage. The marriage inquiries and challenges only get more complex from here. This is true. I wish this was the hardest one. We got those books in the bookstore, Kelly, still?

I think we got them in here. If we do, send her one. Love and respect. If not, if we don't have them, Olivia, Kelly will find out. You just go buy one. But if we got one, we'll send you one. We used to carry them in the bookstore because they're a wonderful marriage book. Olivia made my day today so far. Sharp young lady. Sharp young lady. James Childs is our producer. Kelly Daniel, our associate producer and phone screener. Dr. John Deloney, my co-host this hour here on The Dave Ramsey Show. In the middle of these uncertain times, Ramsey Solutions wants to give you some hope. For the very first time ever, we're giving you Financial Peace University free for 14 days.

Go to DaveRamsey.com so you can watch from home.