The Ramsey Show - App - My Husband Got Laid Off After 47 Years in the Same Company (Hour 2)

Episode Date: June 30, 2020

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225 that's 888-825-5225 my co-host on the show today is ken coleman remsey personality we are here to talk about your life your money your career and any way we can help you 888-825-5225 nicholas is in Florida. Hey, Nicholas, how can we help?

Hi, Dave. So my wife and I were almost at the end of baby step two. We only had a little over a grand left. And about three weeks ago, our car, we got it from a friend, and he was nice enough to let us pay payments on it. The engine blew, and we had to use our emergency fund and even a little bit of it more to pay him. And we were without work for a week. Um, we try to look for other solutions, but we felt so stuck. And, um, I did a stupid thing and I financed a $10,000 car and I was just going there

feeling like it's just what I had to do, which already felt bad enough. And as I was sitting in the finance manager's office, I just remember one of the quotes that you say often where the borrower is the slave to the lender. And I just, from that moment until now, I just feel so crushed. I feel like I have a big sign that says idiot on my head and I don't know what to do well me too man i just tried to turn the lights off on the sign so it's not so obvious oh let's see let me get

this straight uh you did something stupid does that mean you are stupid? No. No, it doesn't. Because if you didn't realize you did something stupid, and you did something stupid, then you're probably stupid. Yeah. The ultimate delineator. Me too. Me too. Me too, you know? So what do you do, Ken, when you fall off the wagon?

Well, you dust yourself off and get back on the wagon yeah but reflect first i like to add a little step in there let's let's let's look at why did i fall off what drove me to that and it was fear you know i i think we've got to understand we have to learn from these moments it's not enough just to say all right i'm not stupid and uh i can get back out of it because because you can. But I want you to examine why you made that decision. What drove you to making a nonsensical decision? It's not even stupid. You just weren't in a place of clarity.

While you were doing it, you knew it was wrong. Yeah. So what's happening in your head that allows you to do that? Because if you don't fix that part to ken's point you'll do it again right that's that's that's what we want to reflect on so what drove you what was your driver um i mean we need a car for our work and we just felt like there was nothing else we wanted to get another cheap car like our one before but we just had this feeling like we would go into the same thing where it would also break again and we would just be going into this cycle.

We are planning as of right now to pay this one off within a year, but I knew that even with that, I just felt like there was something better, but like a better option. I'm not going to pick this apart, but I just want to speak to the fear because you were afraid it was going to happen again. It's like being afraid you're going to get struck by lightning twice, and the odds of that are very, very, very, very, very slim. Did you get the first car, the one from your buddy?

Did you have a mechanic look it over before you agreed to buy it? Yeah, we did. We had mechanics. We had friends that are familiar with cars. Okay. It said that it was okay. It was still fine. I mean, it was a 2007 Kia, so it seemed some days.

But overall, the people who were looking at it said it was all right. But we drive a lot, so I guess it was just this time. So here's the deal. So a bad thing happened. Life happens. Okay? You did what you needed to do there. You weren't reckless, it seems.

And so something still happened. You know? It was bad. And something bad happened. And so now what you did is you compounded a bad situation by going and getting a $10,000 loan for a car. And there was another way. I'll bet there were two or three other ways. And that's what I want you to reflect on is that even in those moments where you feel like there's no other way,

pause, there's another way, sleep on it, get about five other opinions. You just needed some feedback. You needed to pause. That's what the lesson is. Rent a car, buy a $1,000 car. The thing about $1,000 cars is they're throwaways. They're disposable. $10,000 cars aren't and uh and so what here here's your challenge and

here's what you got to figure out okay is what is going to take you long term to where you want to go and i'm not media i don't mean transportation wise i mean in terms of the decision making and principles that you're using with money, what's going to take you where you want to go? When Sharon and I went broke, we determined, we became thorough believers 30 years ago that borrowing money was not going to take us where we wanted to go. And so every time we were painted into a corner, every time we were backed into a corner of someone pointing a metaphorical gun at our face and said, okay, the only way out of this is borrow. The only way out of this is get a $10,000 car.

Every time we just said we can't borrow money. We changed our belief about what is going to cause us to win. And borrowing money was no longer on that list. And so we never again, because we no longer believe that, we never again have borrowed money. And so the problem is that your belief was tested and you didn't believe that the best way, and you thought instead, you know, your 4-year-old kid that lives on the side of all of us

said, well, you're always going to be driving a junk car. No, you're not. You drive a junk car. You drive like no one else. So later you can drive like no one else. You know what I drive now? Anything I want. You know why? Because I drove crap for a long time with Bondo as the primary color.

Yes. You know? And so I drove like no one else. Now I can drive like no one else. And so you've got to believe that that's actually going to occur. and then you can go back into a piece of crap when your other piece of crap breaks that's right let's talk about temporary yes see when you talk about you and sharon saying we are not going to choose debt so we're in a corner ever so here's what happens when you focus on never ever ever ever again having debt, guess what happens? Certain

options are removed. And other options appear. So this is a focus thing. And again, we're not picking on him at all. I drove crap. Oh, yeah. As a result. Listen, well over a year and a half. First four years of our marriage, Stacy and I's marriage,

I drove a year and a half. Ford Taurus, it didn't have AC. But it wasn't for 30 years. No, married i drove a year and a half ford taurus it didn't have ac but it wasn't for 30 years no it was for a year and a half yeah absolutely right i'm old a year and a half ain't much well you know the situation here is he began to say uh well that's an option i don't want it to be an option but it's an option i don't want to be an option i feel bad about it but it's an option and then it became the option it wasn't the option your emotions take wasn't the option. Your emotions take over instead of your belief. You've got to focus on the things.

What I think you need to do is you need to sit down and reevaluate what you really believe is going to cause you to win with money. Is it the stuff we teach? If it is, then this has to be a one-time thing. And by the way, if that's the case, sell the car. Get rid of the debt. Now, undo the problem because every time you get in that thing you're going to feel like you screwed up because you screwed up this is the dave ramsey show For over 20 years, I've recommended Zander Insurance and their term life programs. I'm still amazed at how many families have no life insurance or not enough

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And you can get Ramsey Plus membership for a year free for being an FPU coordinator. That's known as a good deal, Ken. A spectacular deal. And you're going to make a real difference. Coordinating also keeps you on track. Yeah. Well, a lot of the debt-free screams stand here and say, well, we went through the class and then we've coordinated two classes because as we coordinated, it made us stay on our track. We paid off our debt the first time that Stacey and I led a class down in Atlanta. So it was huge for us, accountability and momentum.

Caitlin is in Iowa. Hi, Caitlin. How are you? Well, hello, Dave and Ken. Great to talk to you today. You too. What's up? Thank you.

Well, first of all, before I get to my question, I have an exciting announcement. As of 7 a.m. this morning, thanks to you, my husband and I are debt-free. Yay! Way to go! Congratulations. Proud of you. We're very excited. Thank you.

So we just wanted to let you know that. Well, thank you. Yeah, sure. And then my question that I have for you today is totally unrelated in that we were doing some research on the Internet the other day and we stumbled upon some really scary information regarding home title fraud, which is actually something I've never heard of before. So I don't know if I've just been living under a rock or what, but I've actually never heard of that. So my question to you today is, what's the best way to protect ourselves from home title fraud? It is a fairly new thing because home titles used to be done on a very analog basis, and a lot of title work and access to titles and even changing of titles on homes is now done digitally with a lot of the more sophisticated county courthouses.

And so it's a fairly new hack by the hackers to get in and, quote, unquote, attempt to steal a home. It's not very effective on their part but they can just mess up your life it's like identity theft okay it's not that effective in terms of it doesn't cause you to actually have to pay it and you're not going to actually lose your home because you simply but you might have some expense to go before a judge and prove that this wasn't you and you know get the title put back into your name and all that kind of stuff, a judiciary correction of some kind. The best way to guard against that, it's a very low probability. Identity theft itself is a much higher probability,

but it's included in the Zander identity theft package to cover home title fraud or Social Security fraud or medical record fraud, as well as traditional, so to speak, identity theft that started this whole thing. And so I would just recommend, if you're concerned about it, getting the Zander identity theft protection. I've got that. All of our team has it here. But I actually heard about it the first time through Zander.

They were updating me on the new things that the identity theft package was covering, and I went, what in the world, really? And so I dug into it to learn how it worked and what they were doing, but it's a fairly simple fraud. It's also, and it's conceptually simple to undo, but like identity theft, it just takes a lot of your time because you're dealing with bureaucrats and sometimes people that aren't smart and all this other stuff to get the thing corrected and go, no, that wasn't me, and no, you can't just take the house out of my name, and, you know, this kind of stuff. So it's kind of ridiculous. But yeah, I would just get a Sanders identity theft package if you hadn't already, and you get covered by that.

And so, you know, that's what you run into. Identity theft is taking up a lot of people's space in their, the things we worry about, Ken, the things we spend time on. Yeah, you know, it's interesting, you know, the way she said that, you know, I had not heard of that either. And the minute she said it, I started, you know, oh, what's going on? And it's like we've seen a new monster, you know, and so we don't know anything. And so, you know, what you just did there is let's give some basic information, call Xander Insurance. You talk to a viable insurance company about it, dig into it. You know, but the more we find out about bad things, you know, and then we go, oh, no, this could happen, this could happen, this could happen. And you've got to be smart, but at the same time uh don't panic do the research i'm glad she called in to get to the bottom of it or else it'll just occupy occupy your mind and it becomes a way bigger thing than it actually is well and if

it actually occurs it takes up a lot of space yeah it takes a lot of trouble to get it all straight up nikki is with us and nikki is in wisconsin hi Nikki. How are you? Hey, guys. Thanks so much for taking my call. Sure. What's up? So long story short, I am my brother's power of attorney. He is in prison for the next seven years, and he has three grand in the bank, and he wants me to take the three grand and buy him coins. And I don't think that that's a good investment.

I don't want to touch it. I want to leave it there or maybe put it in a CD or something more safe. And so I was wondering what you thought. I agree with you. Okay. Okay. And as his power of attorney, you're to act on his best interest, not necessarily his wishes. Yeah.

That's the legal part of it. And so, you know, in other words, if you are put to the test for misbehaving with the power of attorney, the test will not be, did you abide by his wishes? The test would be, did you act in his best interest? Yes. And so morally you can run the same test and say, you know, what's the right thing to do for my brother? And so if you want to have a discussion with him, the way to do it is this.

The only money made in investing in coins is by people who are absolutely seriously deep into that world and love coin collecting and become experts on it the casual coin investor the casual classic car investor the casual art investor the casual investor in gemstones does not make money. Those are all what we call collectibles in the investment world, and they're for collectors, meaning you would have to know something about them in order to make money on them. You see what I'm saying? And so, you know, the coins are not something as a category I would invest in. Now, again, if you're into classic cars and you want to buy a classic car and you love it and it's a toy but you do it right,

and you probably can actually make money on it. The same thing is true with guns or art or whatever collectible thing you want to put out there. But you got to be, it's got to be like a hobby on steroids. You know what I'm saying? And so, no, he's in prison for seven years. He doesn't need a coin collection. Awesome. That make sense to you?

It does, definitely. And you can tell him I said so if you want. Yeah. Why not? Be the bad guy. Hey, Dave said no coins for you. No coins for anybody. I got a few.

People give me a few. And they're nice. It's sweet. But I do not invest in those collectible items. I have a few things I collect because I'm a collector. But it's not an investment. There's a difference. Yes.

This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Most people's money problems come from not paying attention. That's why before I spend a dime of my money on something, I do the research and make sure it's going to live up to what it claims. Recently, I got a great pair of sunglasses from a company called Shady Rays. When you're looking for sunglasses, it feels like your options are limited. Name brand sunglasses cost too much and the cheap knockoffs are ugly and really don't protect your eyes. Discovering Shady Rays is a game changer. With Shady Rays, you can count on premium sunglasses that protect your eyes and are affordable.

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Our question of the day comes from Blinds.com. Find out for yourself why Blinds.com is the number one online retailer of custom window coverings. You get free samples, free shipping. And with the new promos they run every month, you'll save even more. Use the promo code Ramsey to get the best deal. Today's question, Dave, is from Melissa in North Florida. She visited DaveRamsey.com and asked, I'm currently a school counselor and I also started a private practice on the side.

I have $72,000 in federal student loans and my salary is about $49,000 at my school job. I have recently become so busy with my private practice that I need to make a decision to leave or stay at the school job. I could either have my student loans forgiven in to leave or stay at the school job. I could either have my student loans forgiven in nine more years working at the school, or I can take the leap and do full-time private practice. I have almost doubled the amount of clients that I need. How do I make this choice? Oh, I love these questions because this is about just breaking it down and going, all right, if I move over to the full-time private practice, what's my income going to be? What do I project? And we want to do modest projections because we don't want to oversell what it could look like.

And so with a modest projection, run the numbers out. And it's really a side-by-side decision because if I stay at the school for nine more years, how much money can I make in nine years in the private practice with full focus? And I think that's her dream job. So with the evidence we have here in the email, I think she moves as soon as she's ready. If she can support herself, she moves to the full-time private practice. And she pays off the loan much quicker than nine years. Yeah. If the private practice is paying as much as you are at the school, you go now.

Yeah. Right away. Or near. You go now. Because long term, the way your email is worded, it's very clear that that's what you want to do. The only thing holding you is the golden handcuff of the student loan forgiveness. And I'm not waiting freaking nine years to get a student loan debt. No.

You go ahead and knock it out now and you take on enough extra clients and raise your prices enough to get that thirty seven thousand five hundred dollars extra income in for two years and the student loans are covered and you're done and you just but you've got so much more upside and so much more freedom and so much more control of your destiny doing your private practice, walk away as soon as you can. Besides that, it's also what you wanted to do. That's part of the equation. And you'll always make more money doing that, almost. George is in North Carolina.

Hey, George, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Ken, Dave, thank you so much for doing the program and having me. Great. How can we help? I have a pretty straightforward question, and I wanted to get some insight big picture wise. My wife and I, about a year ago, we got to baby steps four, five, and six, so knocked out baby steps two and three in about six to eight months. And then the remaining months were about three or four.

We put about 30,000 towards the house for four and five set up. And if we continue to do that, we're looking at three years and eight months for our mortgage to be paid off. And that's our, that's kind of the plan we're on now. We're sitting and talking together about doing two things, two other options. Either stretching it out a little further and enjoying more to about four years and four months. That'll give us a little extra money to travel and have some fun. Or I can pick up 20 hours extra, do a part-time job.

I really enjoy it, and I could knock this puppy out in 23 months, no problem, one year, 11 months. And I just want to know what you guys would consider either way, stress on the family, different pros and cons to those plans. Yeah. How old are you guys? 35. And how old are you guys? 35. And how old are the kids?

Nine years old. Okay. All right. There's not a bad answer in this. It's just whatever you guys want to do. Yeah, I'm curious, Dave. George, what would the second job, if you take that and knock this off, option three in a year and 11 months, I think is what you said, how is that going to change your family schedule?

What are the sacrifices? What are you going to have to give up? I give up Saturdays, and I'll give up maybe about 20 hours a week. I actually have an interview for it, no harm in an interview. It'd be some Saturdays. I'm an intense guy. have an interview for it. No harm in an interview. It'd be some Saturdays. I'm an intense guy. I would go for it. I'd say, give me the junk hours. Give me the hours

no one wants. I'll show up with a smiling face and be happy that I'm working. That's the type of guy I am. I get it. I think the kids would understand. My thinking is we'd be able to do more as they got older. They'd be more capable 11 years old than not my take is on it uh is that if your heart's going to be okay missing some of those

saturdays and some of the things you're going to miss if your heart can withstand this as a short term deal and your wife and kids are on board i'd take option three i'd knock it out fast because your your head's in the right place it's going to make your future so much better so much quicker yeah there's a wrong decision that's not a bad decision as long as everybody's on board right okay um so the way i equate this is you've got a short-term run here um this is not unlike a military family doing a deployment um they've chosen to serve their country and uh they're not going to see dad he's going to be in the sandbox for 11 months you know and you're except you're actually going to be home um you're not going to be physically gone you're just going to be uh when you are home you're going to be a

bit tired right now but um uh you know that kind of stuff for one year basically is what you're saying or one year 11 months 23 months i think you said um so uh you know lay that down and let's look at it and go okay and then put some rewards uh put one reward in the middle um and another reward at the end and that could be trips it could be a uh put a pool in the backyard i don't care what it is put but you know go to disney whatever it is the thing the kids want to do uh we had a debt-free scream yesterday with teenage kids and the teenage kids got behind it and their mantra was they the kids they said what do you want to do kids when we're debt-free and these kids said we want to go to los angeles

we're going to tour the stars homes sure disneyland that kind of stuff so their tour was we're doing it for la we're doing it for la and they went 30 months that particular family did and everybody was this is what we're doing for la and it was the whole family was on board not just dad working extra and so um now they were they were at baby step two which requires a different level of intensity. This doesn't require intensity at this level. So if you do it for four years and eight months and you're 100% debt free and there's zero strain on the family, there is nothing wrong with that.

That fits in our guidelines perfectly if that fits your goals and mantra and values. Ken and I are both a wee bit wired up and we would do the 23, but that's a personality-style thing. That's true. Full disclosure. And we married and have kids as a result that fit in with that. I mean, I've been gone 40 days and do a book tour, you know, when my kids were at home and nine years old and living. But when we got home, we took them on a trip. And that was part of it because that way, you know, we could also threaten them with their behavior during the time I'm gone with that trip.

But that is true. Well, you know, one of the things that George can do here is he's going to have an extra 20 hours that spread over the week. And then he said a lot of Saturdays. Well, you know what? Make the Sunday special. You know, do some little things that are a little bit different. You talked about a reward as rewarding the family in the middle and the end. Do some different

things. If they're going to see you less, when they see you, do some different things with the kids. Yeah, and make sure the screens are off when you're home. Yeah. No glowing screens. But either way, congratulations because you've got a fantastic path lined up here, and you're going to live like no one else, and your kids are going to see that.

And I think when I see the debt-free screens with kids that are a little bit older that get this, like the story you just talked about yesterday, that really fires me up, because I think that the parents aren't just getting debt-free and creating financial peace. Yes, they are. But they're also modeling real true character and success. And those kids see that. They see the sacrifice. They see the long-term commitment.

They learn how to see a vision and see the vision come to fruition. That's about as valuable as anything you can teach your kids, I think, as parents, is to let them see you sacrifice for something that you care deeply about. Rachel Cruz says in Smart Money, Smart Kids, more is caught than taught. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. folks i love telling you about well-made, well-thought-out products. Today, I'm talking about Grip6 belts. I don't know about you, but I'm not a fan of traditional belts. They never fit right, and they're uncomfortable. Grip6 belts are unique.

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dave ramsey special visit grip6.com that's grip6.com One of my most, I want to say dissatisfying, but that's not strong enough. One of the things I hate the most is paying someone to do something and they suck at it. I'm with you there. Aggravates me. I am such a pain in the butt for excellence.

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Never again should you settle for a crappy agent. Get the right help and end up in the home that you hoped for and end up getting your home sold fast. Go to DaveRamsey.com slash agents, and you can find a buyer's agent to help you or a seller's agent to help you in the real estate world that is of the top drawer, the top shelf. Beth is with us. Beth is in Pennsylvania. Hi, Beth. How are you? Good. how are you good how are you dave better than i deserve what's up um my husband has been at the same job for 47 years and retired military about 21 years um he got a letter in the mail sat Saturday stating that his position was terminated.

They fired him in the mail after 47 years? Well, due to the COVID, and he understands that everybody got the same letter. So they're closing the company. Well, I'm not sure. It's a pretty big company, and there's a lot of offices. There's one in Pittsburgh, but there's one in Seattle. So everybody didn't get the same letter, but a lot of people did. No, I don't believe everybody did.

But a lot of people did, okay. Yeah. Wow. He's going to be 70 on Thursday. Wow, happy birthday. Yeah, right. Thank you. be 70 on thursday wow happy birthday yeah right thank you happy birthday happy birthday yeah he says sarcastically okay so what was he doing for a living um kind of like drove a truck but delivered parts that broke like for for mines and different facilities. He would pick up the piece that was broken, take it back, and they'd repair.

And then he would take it. So he was driving a truck and doing delivery, basically? Yeah. Does he want to do that more? Does he want to do that more? I don't think he's quite ready to retire. Okay. How much was he making?

Probably about $60,000 a year. So he's got a CDL. Well, he did, but they have been downsizing and going a little bit smaller, so he doesn't need a CDL now, so he doesn't have it. But he also is on disability through VA. So it was getting to be, you know, whether he really needed it or could do the CDL thing. And I just found out this morning he does not have much in the 401K. And that was my next question was, what do we do with this 401k

it's very little and we've got debt and I'm panicked I don't I don't know what to do okay how much debt do you have um about 234 on the house and I think we have three or four payments on a truck. Then we have a stupid dummy payment on another vehicle, and that payment's like $860 a month. $860? Yeah. What? On a Toyota 4Runner.

There was four or five cars turned into that. Regardless of the situation, I'll go ahead and quick sidebar on that, get that sold. That's insanity. I think it is, too, and can I, like, just get rid of it and still take a $10,000 or $15,000 loss? Absolutely. Or whatever it is. You have to stop the madness. Yes.

And he is drawing Social Security income. I'm on disability. We're raising his great-grandson who's autistic. So, yeah, I'm ready to lose my mind. I can imagine. Okay. Well, I think he's going to get gainful employment immediately. Doesn't really have a choice.

Yeah. And then you guys need to get a game plan on your overall finances so that the panic can leave your throat. Okay, and we'll help you with that. I'm going to put you on hold, and Kelly's going to pick up, and we'll get you signed up. I'm going to put you on hold, and Kelly's going to pick up, and we'll get you signed up for Ramsey Plus for a year. I'm going to give you a one-year membership to that.

Included in Ramsey Plus right now, when people sign up for the membership, is a 15-minute free counseling session with a coach. And they can sit down and help you unpack the rest of this and help you get started. But you and your husband for his birthday present are going to go through Financial Peace University. You're going to get on the Every Dollar Sink budget, sync up with the bank and get everything going, and you're going to do it all. It's going to be completely free.

I'm paying for it, okay? Thank you so much. Okay, because you have got to lay a game plan out here because you're just terrified. And I don't blame you. I've been there. I know how it feels. Well, we're not on the same page. I'm a listener and struggling.

Yeah. Well, here's the thing. We're going to sit down, honey, in front of this computer, and you're going to watch this with me, and you're going to help me get on this budget, or I'm going to duct tape you to the freaking chair until you do. Right. When he wakes up in the morning, he will have been duct taped to the bed by his wife until he watches this stuff. Yeah.

It costs about $5 for a whole roll of duct tape. Yeah. Okay. I'm sure we've got some here. And you know this is a metaphor, right? Don't really do it. Dave Rimsley instructed it. I can hear this now.

But yeah, he's been working his whole life and he thought that was enough and it turns out it's not just getting up and going to work doesn't do it because you end up being a rat in a wheel with a toyota sienna with an 810 car payment and so, but working a plan, now that'll take you somewhere. It's a different thing. So, Ken, what's he do with that job? Well, Kelly, give them the Get Hired digital course from KenColeman.com. We just turned that. That's been out about a week, and that's going to walk him through some basics.

Oh, there you go. Yeah, it's a wonderful little 11-part video series. After watching FPU, they can... Not little, it's a big deal. Well, yeah, but the point is he can get through it quickly, and it's going to really help him from everything to identifying work to standing out. He's got a great track record as far as a work career. And you were off the headsets.

We gave her one year at Ramsey Plus. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I want him to get hired quickly. And here's the deal. He's been driving a truck. Good news is those jobs are plentiful right now. They are.

So it's not like he's in a situation where he's like, oh, how do I get hired? At this point, former military, a guy who's held down a steady job, 47 years driving a truck, he steps right into it. People understand COVID layoffs. This is not some aberration, some sort of, well, what crazy circumstance. So just get after it. I'd be looking for two jobs at this point because you've got a great grandchild on top of everything else. He's got to get after it quickly. And I think she said there was another truck they had three or four payments on. They need to get rid of that, too.

Get rid of those payments. Yeah, get rid of them. And he can get there and she can too. Yeah, this is doable. We'll help you. We'll walk with you, kiddo. You can get through this. And you call us back if you've got any more questions.

Ken Coleman, my co-host on the Dave Ramsey Show today. That puts this hour in the books. This episode is over, but if you heard about an event, product, or service and didn't have a chance to write it down, don't worry. We list everything you've heard about during this episode in the podcast show notes or head to DaveRamsey.com. Thanks for listening.